#betd22 Panel: Skill Development in the Energy Transition
While the worldwide ramp up of renewable energy is gonna create jobs up and down the value chain and has the potential to provide sustainable economic growth, there is an acute shortage of labor in the sector, particularly in markets that are going to grow exponentially. We heard it yesterday and today, certification is key. The session that we have right now is going to look at how countries and institutions can fill that gap with vocational training, syllabi, training of trainers, use of remote and onsite learning. I'm going to make the introductions short, which is an important topic I want to get into what we have today.
On the left of your screen, joined by Dr. Kristina Celic, the Director General at Directorate for Energy, Ministry of Economy and Sustainable Development in Croatia. She holds a doctorate in the technical sciences in the field of electrical engineering, more than 33 years of experience.
Joining online is Stephen Byabato. And Deputy Minister of Energy in Tanzania. Holds a Master's degree and a post-graduate degree at the law school of Tanzania. Hello, welcome. Next, joining us again in our Europasaal is Dr. Rabia Ferroukhi, an international economic development expert dedicated to sustainable energy and socio-economic development. Currently the director of the Director of Knowledge, policy and finance center at IRENA. And next is Berthold Breid, Renata at RENAC. N Germany. Building capacity on green energy technologies. Welcome. And right next to me is Ranisha Basnet . With energypedia,
a nonprofit, with them since the founding days. And more than 7 years of experience. And research lies in knowledge management and communications. This is an incredible panel we have assembled this morning. I want to get right into it. This is the part where I have to be a little bit
stern with you all and say we have so much to get through today. I'm gonna ask you for the first round of questions. You have about 2 minutes to respond. And thank you so very much. I would like to start off with our first two ministers on the panel, Dr. Celic and Mr. Byabato. Why is there a shortage of skilled workers in the renewable energy sectors in your countries? Start with you, Dr. Celic. Thank you very much. I would like to underline that Croatia is known for the quality higher education system. It allows us to have in 2007 the -- our strategy and the return to renewable energy sources and sustainable development. And it helps us to be on this part until today. And
to manage to have the different technologies in our countries such as sun, such as hydro, such as wind. Also, geothermal energy utilization. So, this is very important to know to need to have really good basis on the dedication to achieve the energy transition. And to have the good place strategies and to use our sources. This is important for us to know how to use and how to perform different technologies in energy sector and to use it. And this we need to -- for this we need to have good skill and education system and skill workers. So, we heard today a just transition. A just transition means also to use knowledge that we have and to transform that knowledge to new technologies.
To emerge the use of these technologies. So, in Croatia, we are connected our legislation, our regulatory framework, administration bodies with faculties and we are online each day, I could say, to manage this transition to see what the best options are. And how we could -- from the elementary school speak about energy. Speak about sustainable development then through higher education and the faculties at the universities. Put this in the
frame how we will act on the -- some project. Because learning is -- is the best to learn on the projects how to develop projects. How to develop facilities? And how to maintain it? So, this is the procedure. And also, we need to know where to put this new facilities. Renewable sources. what our spatial plans need to have. So, this is a really big job to do and it needs to be -- to connect all those stakeholders and first of that you need to have the clear strategy that you want to perform renewable energy sources. Absolutely. This clear strategy is vitally
important. We're gonna come back to the question of strategy later in the panel. I would like to go now to our virtual panelist, Minister Byabato of Tanzania. If you could speak about the shortage of skilled workers in the renewable energy in your country.
Thank you, moderator. Can you hear me? I can hear you, yes. Thank you. Back home in Tanzania, we are doing just a great job in the ministry of energy. We are not so much far. We are not so much behind. But we are struggling to make sure renewable energy has expert and provide a quantity which may add up to the already storage capacity in our country.
As of now, we are still lagging behind. And as you know, we consider this a big hydro. As not renewable energy as such. But we have a little bit of renewable energy in -- below 10 mega hertz of energy and we have around 50% of what we have into hydro. But
as of now, we do not have anything coming out of wind. We get something from solar, not insignificant. So, we can say we are still very, very far behind in renewable energy sources. So, that being the case, for instance, we have like a 1700 something-megahertz storage capacity.
We have something like 10 to 15% of it being from renewable energy. So, we are still having a big work to do. And from what we started generating our own electricity, we used to do what we had with water as hydro. And natural gas. We produced from fuel. So, we did not invest much into the technology of renewable energy as a wind and solar and water. So, we still have work to do. We are now going to the energy mix so that we can make sure we
attain what we have to attain with others who are aligning -- who are in front of us in this fight to achieve renewable energy. That being the case, we have not sufficiently done with technological transfer. Technological imparting it to our people. We still have work to do to make sure we bridge that gap of people and technocrats and specialists into internal -- into renewable energy. Absolutely. bridging that gap is one of the big themes out of yesterday. We will come back to you. Now to the studio to ask you underlying reasons for the shortage of skilled workers in the renewable energy sectors in the different countries where you're all active. Start with you, please, Dr. Ferroukhi.
Thank you for having me, Jennifer. Three points I'm going to make. We now have countries with ambitious technological targets. There's, a technology-centric approach top energy transition. And the measures and the policies required to skill up the educational and skilling
policies have not necessarily followed up. So, just, for example, just in renewable energy, we estimate every year the number of workers in the labor force of renewable -- the renewable energy sector were 12 million. We estimate that we want to go to the 1.5, in the next decade, just renewable energy, we'll employee about 38 million people. So, that means that we need to start scaling the workforce. Not only that, that's just renewable and there's also the energy transition-related jobs. That's energy, bar grids, energy flexibility, et cetera. Where we expect in the next decade to go up from about 16 million to
over 70 million. So, that's one point. So, obviously, we need to rapidly scale up the -- and train -- education and train people in order to prepare them for the future energy sector. And to match the skill and supply -- the skilled supply and demand what is really important, and I think we're still not there in terms of planning, is to make sure that we have an integrated approach between energy, labor, and education. The second point is that the sector is evolving very rapidly. And education and training
systems are really lagging behind. So, the fact is that we don't need, for example, skills in only in the power sector, but we need them in the heating and cooling. We need them for electric vehicles. So, that's manufacturing, infrastructure,
digitalization, access. I mean, there's a lot of direct but also indirect job requirements that will -- will increase the skills needs. And finally, the last point, about the fact that we're really not tapping into the full potential of the talent pool that we have. And this is why I think a lot of interest is increasing in the inclusive transition. Just to give you an example -- I want to come back to the examples. I want to make sure the other panelists have the opportunity. This is the challenge of the panel,
I know there's a lot to discuss. But right now, I would like to come to Mr. Breid from RENAC. Tell us about the skills where you're active. Thank you. I would like to add on to what Rabia said. From our observation, the problem is oftentimes there is many countries with quite high ambitions concerning embassies and so on. But oftentimes, it really lacks a strategy. How to build up the training landscape in the country. So, it's -- maybe there's like some universities
doing something for the engineers. But then economists have forgotten lawyers, to transfer the knowledge that is necessary for the development of the technologies in the faculties. Or technical vocational training is forgotten in some branches. So, what is really often
times missing is a national strategy to build up skills according to job profiles required. Four different sectors on different levels along the value chain. So, what we oftentimes observe is it's punctually there's something, but the whole strategy is missing. This is the first point. The second point is that we also observe oftentimes it's the ministry of energy who has the obligation to fulfill the targets and so on. But skill development is in a responsibility of the ministry of higher education and the ministry of vocational training or in the ministry of industry and commerce. And mostly these ministries are not
working together to really define a national strategy. This is -- I mean, this is -- yeah. I think a big message from this BETD also too many nations, please, if you want to really reach your targets, invite all the ministries on one table and develop a strategy for the skill development. National strategy. You have said it a couple of times. Yes, I think this is one of the big takeaways from the BETD. Miss Basnet, your thoughts.
Thank you so much. What the other panelists already shared, we work on knowledge management in the global south. And we see four As that contribute to your question. Access, is the resources and the knowledge we require to train and have skilled manpower, is it available? Is the training available, is it affordable? Applicability. Is it applicable to
that particular setting? Is it comprising both the academic and the practical knowledge which always is -- we see lacking as either too academic or too vocational. Do we combine both of the streams? And also, do we actually concentrate on the local capacity building? Because if you don't have the local capacity building, the project is not sustainable. That's the core of it. We see the four As. And one also is availability for the target audience that you are targeting. If we could focus on four As, whatever resources and skills we are trying to build. Make it accessible,
affordable, applicable, in that particular settings, that would be like wonderful for the renewable energy sector. Thank you. Thank you so much, Miss Basnet. The same question for each of you again. You spoke about this for a moment. But I want to dive deeper. On what educational level is it problematic, on the academic level? And what are some of the obstacles looking for the ministers, and start with you, face in your country or the institutions that you see on a different scale? I would like to start with you, Dr. Celic.
I will say that it is -- and higher education level. Academic level is -- they have their role and they are doing that well. And new technology. But we need a wide range of skills in this higher education and craftsman. And also to connect that with the digital transition.
So, this is a more challenging topic now in I think education world. How to -- because when we speak about our strategy, it is, you know, our energy strategy shows the way. Renewable energy transition. And one of the measures that is included here to educate people to have skilled workers on the sites you know? And what the transition brings to us? Different and distributed production of electricity. Particularly and also heat energy. Corrected with some technologies like biomass, thermal. So, what do we need? We need a wide range of technical skills and also we need the wide range of, you know, dispersive activities on the different sides on the islands, on the mainlands, on the, you know, those parts of the -- we heard that a lot of people do not have electricity right now. That problem of cooking on the -- on environmental friendly and not healthy way. So,
this is the challenge that we are facing. This is the challenge that we're facing. We talked a bit about that last night. We're focusing a lot on challenges. We'll get to the good things in just a second, but first to Minister Byabato of Tanzania.
What are some of the problems faced in Tanzania? The major problem we have is part of the technician and the -- those people will need much to be in the field and do this and do that at all the time. We are not in a position to have a so much many specialists because we do not have a large quantity of renewable energy stored into our area. So, we need to have those more technicians, more artisans, more technical level at the lowest grade so we can make sure all of our time, as the fellow Minister said, they can access everyone and offer the services needed. Do this and that to make sure renewable energy is in place all the time. And being innovative to have a new thing out of what we have for now. So, at level is we speak with I hope
we are ready for now. And make sure we produce this at all levels so that you can bridge the gap and make sure we have everything. We're gonna talk about that in just a second. You're right. Now I would like to come back to the room.
Dr. Ferroukhi, where do you see the problems? I'm gonna focus on renewable energy. We looked at the segments of the value chain and try to identify what kind of skills and occupational backgrounds are required. What is interesting is we found about 30% are mathematics. And then lawyers and regulators. But what's interesting is the majority of the skills required do not necessarily need a university degree. This is where obviously the necessary skills can be brought for alternative pathways and you have spoken about vocational training, apprenticeship, on the job training, et cetera. The challenges are different at different levels
of training. At higher education, the main problem is they lag behind, usually slow at bringing new materials into the curricula or create new courses. And vocational training which is much more agile and flexible. One of the issues we have is when there is no regulation. So, for example, if you have no regulation in the vocational training system, then you can have a solar PEV installation program that is done without any kind of standards. But many countries just mention by the deputy minister in Tanzania but also in Kenya are also integrating that in the regulatory framework so there are standards. That's one example. But maybe just to finish, in the energy access context I think what is very, very important is that the skill building be also accompanied with local project development. And there are many examples which I'm sure my
colleagues are gonna speak about. Fantastic. I want to get right to those colleagues. Mr. Breid from RENAC. Oftentimes what's missing is often the practical aspects of the trainings, yeah? So, in universities but also in the technical training, emphasis is missing. People are skilled in photovoltaics
and never built the systems and connected to the grid or put it into operation. And so, this is -- yes. I mean, formal, they have some kind of certificate or they passed the exam. But the practical aspect is something which is really missing. And I mean, yeah. The point that Rabia
pointed out to have this combination with project developers in reality is really a good approach. And another thing is also we observe oftentimes companies, they are doing training on the job for the technical level installation, operation, maintenance. On the one hand side, maybe because there is no training facilities. And opportunities to send stuff for training. But yet it is also the perception that they save money. They don't want to spend money on training.
And this is a big problem in general about like skill development in the energy sector, yeah? Many expect that -- I mean, there's Internet so, sending people to go to the Internet and reading something is enough for training. This is not the case. I mean, you could just like buy 1,000 books and distribute it in a country and ask people to read them. But this does not mean they really digest it and know what they should have learned. So, this is really the difference.
And this perception oftentimes to save a bit of costs for training, yeah? This calculation is not really -- is not really practical. There is a lot about this learning by doing aspect. But the importance like part of that vital training is to get in there and then actually to be doing it. And to be trained on before you are deployed to do it out sort of in real life.
I saw your colleague next to you, Miss Basnet nodding along. Tell us, please. No, I actually agree with everything my panelists said and summarized everything. I would like to add, along with the practical on hands training, we need to work between the practitioners. I learned how to do it, but when I went to the field, oh, my god, many of the indicators that I learned in my studies, they don't apply. I need someone who has done it before to give his or her input. Those are the exchange also missing.
And also bring one complete new point in the agenda. As we move towards energy transition, we are moving from pure renewable energy to more Nexus. Talking about energy and agriculture, energy and water. That means we are also merging two specializations.
And that's going to be -- because we see more and more demand for knowledge in this seconder, that's a huge topic that will come up that we will need more and more skilled manpower by the two who we can then train to merge into one or some course that kind of helps us to produce manpower who can work in Nexus topics. Because those are going to be the new challenges in the sector. Thank you. Thank you very much. We looked at some challenges. And in some ways, it's lovely that there's agreement where the challenges lie. But I want to look forward by looking back. What has worked well so far. What has been some strategies that you've said, okay. In terms of skill development,
this is something that we've seen working. I would like to start with your perspective from Croatia. What is working. We have realized a lot of projects in the last 15 years when we started with our strategy on renewable energy sources. So, we built a lot of new facilities. One fifth of whole installed capacities in electric sector we have nowadays from renewable sun, wind, biomass, geothermal. So, learning by doing is the right world -- word and the right way how to achieve
this targets having a good working -- good and skilled workers. And we managed to do that, yes. We implement maybe different technologies abroad. Not -- we do not produce all of them. Some. But nowadays we have skilled workers on these different areas. Also, we transform those who are working in this mining industry, hydrocarbon industry. And they now are in the -- they are focused on geothermal energy. So, this is how also this transition
works. From the other side, we have also industry -- very powerful industry producing generators and motors for hydro -- hydro power plants. Also, they turn to wind industry, for example. This is how it works. And how it works well. So, this is our experience and now, for example, we are
starting with hydrogen. Last week we adopted Croatia hydrogen strategy. And this will speed also the process. So, you need to be dedicated to -- and focused to your targets to manage them. Thank you very much. I would also like to get the perspective from Tanzania. Minister Byabato.
Yes. For us what we see has worked for us in the past is to have those exchange programs of making sure our people down here comes to you, for instance. We have had several exchange programs with the Germans. And we are getting some other skilled labor from other areas to come in and input some knowledge to us. That is one of what we do. The second thing we do, we have some hydro
projects down here going on. We make sure in every hydro project we have a simulation center for making sure that these people who are there adjust practically and acquire knowledge of what they can do. And we are now scheduling the exchange program in further technological studies so that we can go into what the Minister has been saying from Croatia. Going to geothermal. Going, extending to biomass and some other renewable energies so that we can be in a position of having -- Oh, I think our connection may have just -- yes, I think the -- You lost me? We lost you, but you're back. We will give you another second to wrap up. Make sure we don't stop this program and make sure when ending up what do we do with the application back home? So, we can make sure we have excellent programs to advance knowledge of what we have and go back into the renewable energy sources to make sure we have everything we want.
Thank you very much for that perspective from Tanzania. I would like to bring it back now into the studio. Dr. Ferroukhi from IRENA, what's been working well that you have seen? And why? I think we have to be -- of the fact that the energy transition will bring challenges. Educational nature that we spoke about. I think if we look at that from the outset, we are bound to have solutions and plan for them. For example you ever very often project developments outside urban
centers when the skills are concentrated in urban centers. Bring those training centers as close as possible to where the potential is. This is what happened in Morocco. You have three training centers put close by the project development and that has worked quite well. That's just to give you an example. I would like to make one more point. That's the fact that we are talking about how to exchange best practices, et cetera. And I think that's essential because we have
seen a lot of successful examples. And IRENA is actually launching a new global platform on education for the energy transition together with UNESCO and other institutions. And in that, the main point here is to bring all the different stakeholders between industry, project developers, governments, et cetera. And to basically share best practice and at the same time the first thing that we will be doing actually, and I think that's another thing that is needed not only globally, but obviously at the national level because it will be much more accurate which is a skills survey that is aimed at employers in order to better identify, actually, the specific needs of the sector. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's always exciting for me to get to host a panel like this to see how fellow panelists pull out their pens and start writing something. I want to go to you, I saw you pick up your pencil and make a note. Please.
Some things are working well. But in the skill sector, as I mentioned already, practical oriented trainings are key. The second thing is the trainings should really focus and relate to the specific job profiles. It doesn't make sense to train people in something they will not work in. Which oftentimes happens. So, you can save a lot of time, resources, energy, and money if you really focus to what the target group needs to learn. Also, we observed that if you build up the trainings with an exam and a certification, this helps a lot. So, I mean, then it's also comparable
and clear what participants will learn. And also, I mean, they will use this for their personal development. And also, we noticed what is working well is this concept of planning -- planned learning that we use a lot. So, oftentimes we combine a lot of online training which can be done whenever participants can or have time together then with later face-to-face training, yeah? So, with this kind of package, this is quite economic.
And I can imagine that the pandemic over the last 2 years has sort of brought this blended learning style. We realize that there are ways to do that there weren't pre-pandemic. Yes. To wrap it up, miss #Basnet, what and it why? Like as was pointed out with the local practitioner training. In Southeast Asia, the sector. In the 1980s, lots of trainings and resources were done to build up the capital
city such that you look at it now, there's a vibrant hydro chain with trainings in the region and there are continuous exchanges between practitioners not only from the region, but across different continents and coming up with new collaboration ideas, new technologies and so on. So, definitely a local capacity building. That is the key if you want to achieve energy transition. And second, to build what Ben had already mentioned about exchanges. We have seen it again and again. Just having a bunch of experts in the room, whether it's online, onsite. And let them talk. So much good comes out in the room. There is so much exchange of ideas, collaborations, interregional, intercountry, again, you name it. So, really,
if we focus on local capacity building, practical actions, I think those are the two ones that in our experience we see working really well. Thank you so much for that. I have to say, you have been a fantastic panelist. I want to keep going. We have got two more questions to get through. Start again with our Ministers. Is there a plan that your respective governments has for the development of specialized workers in the region -- renewable energy sector? Do you have any up-skilling measures that specifically benefit global phase out of coal and therefore decarbonization through renewable energies. Limit your responses to 2 minutes. Start with Croatia Yeah, we have a smart education strategy. And why it's important to have this word "Smart."
Because we heard also here that we need different kind of activities. Agriculture, transport, different sectors when we apply to energy and where we use energy. In civil engineering. We need good planning for doing that. So, education and train of people who will carry this development of green transition is most important in these days. And we need to start even on the receipt -- research level. Also on this commercialization of -- that means that we need -- we need to connect also different segments, different sectors and to have really skilled and smart working force. This is -- this is why not to focus to only
one segment, but to broaden it and to have a basis -- first to have a basis of what's going on in the transition? What are the segments that you need at the, you know, base knowledge? And then to apply on some segments and I will -- I will support this thing that it is very important to have face-to-face trainings. Not only we are Internet. Because it is -- it is how it's -- it is best to share knowledge. Absolutely it is. I can only support what you saw. I would like to go now to the Minister Byabato in Tanzania. Does your government has a specific plan
when it comes to skill development of specialized workers in the renewable energy sector? Yeah. Yes. Initially -- Mr. -- I think we got you back. Yep. You're back. Yes. I'm saying in renewable energy, locally we have the national energy policy 2015. We have the policy master plan in 2020 update. And
we have some other put in place integrations to make sure that we do not get left behind when it comes to imparting knowledge and the bridging the gap in renewable energy. But on top of that one, when we want to go globally, now we make sure that we should join the international organizations from all over the world to make sure that we go with the clean energy and cooking energy, power and whatever., for instance, we are -- we are now joining the sustainable energy for all. We are going into the international alliance. We are going into international renewable energy IRENA. We had them yesterday. And carbon sequestration and so on and so forth. So, we can share what others share so that we can bring that knowledge back home and share the note of making sure that we do not emit a lot of carbon and whatever into the air. Yeah. Thank you very much. And thank you for sticking with us through these technical difficulties. It's
great to have you with us here virtually. No problem. I would like to ask the three panelists left in the room. What do you see from your perspectives, what are the capacity building pre-conditions to developing RE and EE markets? Are there educational, or re-educational measures that specifically benefit the phase outs or decarbonization through -- you're already nodding. Go ahead from IRENA, Dr. Ferroukhi. Thank you, Jennifer. I don't know how you do it to speak so fast.
I'm so sorry. No, I have told you before that the energy transition will bring a lot of job creation. That's the good news. Obviously, it will outweigh the job losses that we'll have in fossil fuels. But that still means that we have to take care of the fossil fuel workers and we need re-skilling and up-skilling measures to accompany the labor market interventions. Now, the good news is that some of the skills
are transferable. So, for example, the offshore oil and gas industry has specialist skills that really could fit with the offshore wind industry, for example. Another good news is that we have seen through different studies that some of the -- there are synergies between the coal industry and solar PV skills. It is estimated that about 40% of coal-fired power plant workers could be transitioned into the PV sector.
On the other hand, the coal mining industry, about 30 to 35% of jobs are specific to the industries and will require some kind of re-skilling. Very important measures that we've seen that works. And this is in terms of this transition is to have a transition training fund. So, training at large scale skills training. This is important. It is important to have these funds. We have seen them in Spain, for example. In the coal phase out. Nice example in the State of Colorado which created a bill that has a $15 million provision to assist coal-dependent workers and communities in this transition. And 7 million of that is actually for apprenticeship and training programs for workers.
But that means you have to have the means for that. And I'll talk about that later. We would love to bring that up in the closing statements which we will get to after we talk to our panelists. Please, Mr. Breid. Rabia mentioned a lot already. I'm a terrible influence, please. This is exactly the point I was about to make.
So, the job which will be lost in the coal industry of our coal power plants, a lot of them these people -- I mean, they are electricians. They are engineers. So, they can work in the field of renewable energies. Either in solar PV or bio energy. A lot of potential is there to really go forward working in the renewable energy sector without re-skilling. And others need to be re-skilling. Re-skilling is going to be an incredibly important part of this. absolutely agree. You make great points. Wrap up for Miss Basnet. First focus on the pre-condition. And tweak did a little bit to add local skill level.
That's the keyword I'm going to add today. You can have them on the energy building infrastructure. But if you don't have the local capacity development, who is going to maintain? Who is going to do the after service? Who is going to be responsible for the sustainability of it? So, really without local capacity building, you cannot expect to have a sustainable energy infrastructure project in the long-term.
So, that's my two thoughts on it. Thank you so much. Okay. I'm -- we have lots of time left over for your final thoughts. We have been too fast all day long. Now we can all take a deep breath. I would like to ask for your final thoughts before we end the panel. Start, of course, with Minister Celic from Croatia. Please be sure to use your microphone. Thank you. Sorry. I would like to say maybe we
didn't mention funding. For example, our energy -- renewable hydrogen strategy show -- to establishments of regional hydrogen center. For that we need also to have human resources. But also we need to have -- to equip that. And to work and to finance this. This was the main question, actually, when we were communicating this strategy how to proceed. And will only industry and the potential
investment bring knowledge? Or we need to do that parallel. We need to do that in parallel. So, this is -- this is just one example of what we are doing and how we need to proceed in this green hydrogen industry, for example. We have really a lot of -- we are looking at the hydrogen -- green hydrogen as a new fuel. So, particularly important in transport sector. To mention that. But I would like to conclude with one -- just one sentence. We have given the ambition goals. It is necessary from the earliest stage to teach and support young generation to think critically.
Take in initiatives and respect nature in order to gain understanding and skills in the fields of environment, sustainability, and climate change. And the -- for this renewable energy transition, energy transition will help to do that. And to achieve goals. Absolutely. These are inspiring words. Thank you for sharing that with us today, Minister Celic.
Now to our virtual guest, Deputy Minister of Tanzania for his final thoughts on today's panel. I think -- I think we might have to come back you in just a minute. So, I'll turn to the panelists in the room. Dr. Ferroukhi from IRENA, your final thoughts on today.
Thank you so much, Jennifer. Back to two points which I didn't make in the beginning. That we tap into the talent pool that we are already have. This is why a lot of people are talking about an inclusive transition. To look at gender, we did look at women in the renewable energy sector. 32% of women. Which is better than the conventional sector, 22% in oil and gas. We
can do better. But that's one. And we have to look at technology-by-technology in the global energy sector. When we did the wind sector survey, it was 21%. Much closer to the conventional sector. Again, this is a STEM issue. Which we found out that 28% of women are only in the STEM jobs in renewable energy. So, there is a long way to go. And again, educational policies and measures would
be essential in order to promote women. But other minorities, quote, unquote. We're not really a minority. We're 50% of the population. But the second point you would like to make, it goes back to your point. I fully agree with local capacity and building local capacity.
And this is intimately related to the kind of development that we have. And the new classical paradigm of economics that we are -- have embraced for centuries -- for decades, rather. So, the point is that renewable energy is great. But we also need to diversify our economies -- economies that are, for example, commodity-dependent. And we have to make sure that the local value is created. So, for example, it's not just about renewables. But it's, for example, a new topic on rare Earth materials, for example. Where we go
and basically take the raw materials and bring them to the rest of the world. No, local value has to be created. It has to have a benefit for local domestic value. Otherwise we're gonna run into the same kind of problems with basically a producty type of development. A paradigm. Which we
need to move away. I mean, doing renewables and energy transition doesn't mean that everything is gonna be rosey for everybody. So, we need from the onset to make sure that other economies, economies that are dependent today on technology, et cetera, from certain regions, have the opportunity to also diversify their energy sectors and beyond. And take -- along the segments of the value chain really create domestic value. Thanks. Thanks so much. Diversifying, incredibly
important. And I do want to come back to the first point you made about girls. I think you said 28% in STEM, exactly. And I think it's important to say this. We're talking about re-skilling people like me who are working. But we also need to be paying attention to education much younger. Make sure that girls aren't weeded out in high
school or weeded out when they go study at university. We are 52% of the population. I'm glad to see our virtual guest is back. Back you, Deputy Minister Byabato of Tanzania. Thank you. I'm so sorry this introduction of the communication. Finally, and lastly, I would wish to say we in Tanzania, and I hope many of the African countries, are eager to move faster into renewable energy. And down here we are looking to make sure that
when it comes to capacity we have something like 10% of the full internal capacity of our energy into -- coming from renewable energy. And maybe as I said before, we have those initiatives which are in place. Making sure that we attain what we have to attain. But I should also tell you what we have. We are welcoming investors down here to invest into
renewable energy. We are looking to have somewhere in the future a 1,000 Mega watt coming from solar and coming from wind and other areas like biomass and geothermal. We welcome you. Whoever wishes to invest here. The environment is conducive. And very, very much favorable for anyone. And to make sure, I assure you it is available. The eagle project which was stated about yesterday. At least 90% of that pipeline passes through Tanzania and it is safe down here. And it is a bigger advantage to both of us. So, that is what I could say. Thank you.
Thank you very much for those final words. Back to the studio, Mr. Breid from RENAC, your closing statements. Yeah. Nations should see this not as a burden, but also an opportunity. And also reflect on the co-benefits of climate mitigation. One co-benefit has been mentioned already. Like local job creation, local value creation. There is a lot, a lot, a lot in it. Especially for the renewable and energy efficiency sector. And also to what my colleague says, it is so crucial to really build up local training infrastructures with local trainer pools, with local training institutions. It is really not economic to
send trainers around the world all the time. So, and this is possible to really build up this local training institutions and also as Rabia mentioned, it would be good to reflect on where these skills are needed. In which geographical region, yeah? So, close to where the investments will be also. And yeah, again, closing remark. I think it makes sense that nations, meaning different ministries really sit together. Okay, what's the co-benefits
of climate mitigation? What can be achieved in our country concerning the local value creation? Also, gender aspect and so on. I mean, to really have the whole -- yeah -- opportunities to see them. And then as a next step, really to decide on developing strategies for skills development. On different levels, for the different genders. For the different professions along the value scale. Thank you so very much for that perspective. Our last panelist, final statements, please, Miss #Basnet from energypedia. Thank you. My colleagues adequately summarized everything, I will try to add. Especially with the local capacity building, now there is a
lot of resources and training material. But the question of affordability is still a big issue. As long as those are not affordable, applicable, and available to the target audience, we are still at a loss. So, really urging everyone to make it affordable. Because it needs to be affordable. And also, the second thing is because I'm a practitioner myself, it's always assumed that practitioners exchange happen automatically, organically. They will just come together.
We will exchange. But in real life, it doesn't. You need to foster it, you need to nurture it. You need to bring a couple of experts in the room. You need to provide that environment so that there is an exchange. Just the thought that it would happen organically, it's more -- so, really let's foster more exchange between practitioners. Because there's so much of learnings in the sector. And every time when we have such kind of events where people come together, exchange ideas and, you know, bring the experiences, there's so much of collaboration happening. So, with really making
resources available and really focusing and fostering exchange between practitioners at all level. Online, on-site, thank you. Thank you. Fostering exchange is what we need to do here at the BETD and taken back to the practitioners also. Please, Mr. Breid, you wanted to say something else and we have time. Yes, I wanted to add to the question, who pays?
Okay. And we need to see a differentiate between education either on like technical level or an academic level. And further training, yeah? So, what concerning educational programs for electricians, for plumbers, for whatever -- mechanics. But also in the academic level. I think in the very end, for a government, it is not so much expensive to just modify the syllabus of the study programs in the university. For the technical and vocational training. So, this has to be done once, yes. But I mean, it's this kind of like lessons on PV installation. For example, they're replacing others, okay?
In the end, you don't need to have a longer program. So, this is just to see, okay. What kind of like the old topics that have been touched on can be removed? And what can come in? So, in the end, it will not be so much more costs. Except for having this process. Concerning the further training, there is a segment where like people from industry, commerce companies could go in and pay for it. But again, this is a bit small
also. And it depends on the possibility. If you can really pay for that. So, it depends on the country. It depends on the amount of money which is available there. And also, for public servants. Which play a crucial role, yeah? For giving applications of construction for the regulators. For I mean, yep. Providing all the different services where public sector is involved. There needs to be also the understanding that public sector somehow has to invest for the training of public sector stuff. This is not falling from heaven, yeah? So, again, it's a question who pays. In this case, again, it's -- it's a public sector. So, coming back to
private companies or private people, participants can pay. This is for the further training. But also to a limited extent. So, this has to be seen. I think it would be fantastic for all of us if money did just fall from the sky. Unfortunately that's not the case. The idea of funding incredible important.
We are now out of time. Thank you to the fantastic panelists, what a fantastic way to start out on day two of the Berlin Energy Transition Dialogue. From Croatia, Minister Kristina Celic, and virtually, Stephen Byabato, and Rabia Ferroukhi, Berthold Breid, and Ranisha Basnet. Thank you very much. It has been such an honor and such a pleasure to have
you here with me. We've got a few people in the hall. I'm going to go ahead and give you a round of applause. You were fantastic. Thank you all so very much.