#18 - Need to Know - Real Change Ahead? (08-05-22)

#18 - Need to Know - Real Change Ahead? (08-05-22)

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this is need to know real talk about  the reality of unidentified aerial   phenomenon from australia ross  coltart from the us bryce zabel hello and welcome to need to know i'm ross  coulthart in australia back from an absolutely   frantic road trip around the continental usa with  my sidekick and co-host bryce zabel in los angeles   g'day bryce hey good day roscoe that was really uh  not only fun but i thought we covered some really   great territory and i'm i'm extremely excited  to show that to the people in the next few weeks   can i confess the one thing i'm not excited  about is what you americans do to people on   domestic airlines i just cannot believe how they  squash people into your airlines in continental   usa well now we need to make one thing very clear  me i'm not responsible for american airlines any   more than you're responsible for kangaroos being  in the road so we're just gonna have to let that   one fly or lie now as you and i both know bryce  it has been a momentous absolutely momentous month   both in general uap news but also in things that  you and i have been digging into and i'm really   excited because probably in about two weeks  time i'll be bringing a major new documentary   to australian television which will be released  internationally which features some of your and   my interviews with people that we've been  doing here in the united states with you   and i'm also really excited i think this  program we really have to focus on the momentous   proposed legislation that is part  of the continuing efforts by certain   key congress people and senators to try to ensure  that the pentagon and the intelligence community   are held to account on uaps i cannot emphasize  more how important this new legislation is   it's a cracker well if it if it passes and it gets  through i mean this is legislation that the senate   intelligence committee i think has forwarded uh  for approval in in its tough new language i mean   we thought last year the language that was uh  put forward was pretty tough this is uh i guess   it goes beyond tough to mind-blowing on some  of it i mean there's talk of uh going back to   1947 in this language which you know it's just  like let's face it everyone who's listening to   this knows 1947 because we've talked about it so  much it's ground zero for the ufo story it's when   kenneth arnold saw his first sighting it's when  roswell happened a couple of weeks later it's   when the the national security act was passed it's  when the air force became a separate branch of the   military i mean it's a big time big deal and and  it's not coded at all there it is in the language   saying you will go back and talk about that and  there's so much others i mean so many other things   um just to follow up though quickly on what you  were saying i i just want people to understand how   we literally got in a car a few weeks ago and  started driving around to interview various   people who we thought would be very important in  helping to lay out this story so we kind of took   a a an extra week off in between our our shows uh  for good reason i think because we were finding   some stuff that we'll be able to share with  people in longer form over the weeks to come   but i just wanted to say thank you to channel 7 in  australia and yourself ross because it was really   a terrific experience to be part of this and and  i think when people see uh your follow-up to that   excellent first documentary you had that came out  last year this one will be equally mind-blowing   look it's great look i freely admit i'm delighted  that a major tv network like the seven network   which is australia's number one tv network is  prepared to back an investigation into uaps   it's only to be applauded and it's such  a rare thing frankly in mainstream media   and and you're right one of the things that really  mattered for me on this trip bryce was not only   getting to meet you on in person properly for the  first time but the ability to actually meet people   eye to eye there's nothing like breaking bread  and shaking hands with people and for me it was at   least yes right yeah it was a real turning point  to be in washington dc talking to people um i'm   quite struck and quite optimistic now much more  optimistic than i was before that the congress   the senate particularly they've they've got teeth  they're determined that even though the pentagon   and the intelligence community have been very limp  sluggish to say the least in their response to the   previous gillibrand rubio galago law which  essentially required them to be really open about   uaps the um armed services and the intelligence  committees both in the senate and the house   they're really going hard with these new  legislative requirements that are going to   push the defence and intelligence  community to really lift their game it is shocking and one of the things uh that you  and i have been talking about on this uh program   uh in our past episodes has been what will it take  to get witnesses to come forward and how will they   be triggered to tell what they know uh and not  be fearful of reprisals by the government or   or anyone and that seems to be something that  the senate language is addressing there is an   attempt to to allow people to uh speak  to the congress about legacy programs   in the ufo field and and not fear that they will  be turned on by the government itself um now if   that happens i mean that is that is game-changing  because uh for people that have been watching the   january 6 committee hearings you see someone come  in and they they lay out whatever their story is   but then you need to verify the story so now  suddenly a couple of other people are are   being brought in if that starts to happen in the  ufo field you bring someone in they testify and   then others are going to say well i want to hear  more about that or more about that suddenly you   have snowballing witnesses and if they're being  granted some form of protective immunity then   then the whole area that we're talking about could  go much faster than we think it is and let me tell   you bryce and let me tell our listeners and our  viewers those witnesses are definitely coming   i am now very very sure that we are going to  see key whistleblowers fairly soon talking about   legacy programs well now that's interesting i i  i love how you said that too uh you you needed   to lower your voice and slow down on that one  because i'm very excited about it but now the only   question i have for you um when you put whistle  blowers and legacy in the same sentence here's my   question a whistleblower tends to make me think  that they're somebody who's currently involved   in government issues regarding uap but some of  these legacy programs have come and gone but   they themselves prove uh you know what what has  been investigated and what's been happening for   the past years are you suggesting that there are  whistleblowers about some of these older programs   who would also be coming forward from some of  the people you've talked to what i'm very very   confident about is that there are people who claim  to have knowledge of what's really been going on   and i won't say whether they're still serving or  not serving who are prepared to come forward and   the reason why they're prepared to come forward is  because the legislation that creates a so-called   secure system for government or ex-government  employees including the military which allows   them to legally report secret ufo data it's  already been approved by the full house of reps   in july and our good friend dean johnson who has  a fantastic twitter account that covers this issue   he's explained this and what's really momentous  is that you know in america right now there is so   much division between the two major political  parties the republicans and the democrats   and yet this was passed without debate and without  a roll call vote as an amendment to the fiscal   year national defense authorisation act so that  was mike gallagher co-sponsored by ruben gallagher   gallagher and it's really exciting because you've  got a bipartisan effort now by the congress by   the senate to basically push this issue through  and the teeth that they're proposing in the new   proposed laws to put into the uh the legislation  they are i mean i'm so excited about it because as   yes as you say it insists on a historical analysis  by the gao the essentially the government watchdog   there is what is it the government accountability  accounting office and as i understand it that's   quite a tough regulatory oversight agency it's got  real power but you know the thing that uh we we   need to triple underline here is in a time where  america is about as divided and frankly about as   evenly split as it can be politically here is an  issue one of the few i can't think of very many   others that i can't think of a single one that  is this bipartisan um so far and if that holds   and it does not get turned into a political issue  but becomes this uh issue that we're bringing   forward then then it could go very quickly i  wanted to just uh one of our friends is george   knapp who was also an investigative reporter and  i just saw a quote from him the other day and i   just want to read it to you because he's he's  done so much work on this area he wrote it's   clear that somebody has been sharing information  with congress members i can tell for sure that   there are people who have met with them and have  told them not only that there are these legacy   programs that have materials and by materials i  don't just mean scraps of metal from the ground   but intact craft and remains physical remains of  beings these stories have been floating around   for a long time i know that there are a couple  of people in particular who know about this   stuff down to the point of the buildings where the  stuff is stashed who are willing to come forward   if they are protected and now this legislation  indicates they will be protected as whistleblowers   that their security clearances will not be revoked  and it's pretty exciting so thanks to george knapp   for laying that out so clearly and it's exactly  what you're hearing so that's what i i think is   interesting is this is not just some wild uh wish  from people who uh you know are on ufo twitter or   wherever uh this isn't some wild wish where we're  just saying yeah i think it's really gonna happen   these are major people in washington dc who  are saying that not only are they angry about   being having information withheld but they're  going to do something about it which is crazy   now the other things bryce that's very exciting  is that whatever happens in this legislation   there is now officially a stake through the heart  of aoi nsg the ridiculous acronym that was given   by the pentagon to the um uh uap task force  replacement and it's now called arrow or arrow   and the proposal in the new legislation is that  it will be known as the uap jpo the unidentified   aerospace undersea that's new by the way phenomena  joint program office because the fact that they're   flagging undersea is a completely new development  and i can tell you like i know that comes out of   the private briefings that have been given  to congressmen and senators already you know   it's interesting because uh first of all a lot of  people most people still favor calling them ufos   uh but then over time people have suggested we  call them uap for unidentified aerial phenomena   and now with this legislation it appears that  there's yet another rebranding to be called them   unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena as you  just pointed out but i saw people trying to get   away with saying that's still uap because  aerospace dash under c is really just an a   i don't buy it i think we're going to come to know  this stuff as uaup undersea i mean uh unidentified   aerospace undersea phenomena or it  might be the uap joint project office   it might and by the way uh i just wanted because  you and i have had so much fun making fun   of uh aoi msg or amesog as uh andre carson  famously said in that may 17th hearing   i just want to remind people okay everyone has  heard about blue book that went back and from 52   to 69 and then of course when the new york times  started reporting on this we learned about ossap   atip and then most recently became the uap task  force which for me is still the one that i think   is calling it what it is it was the uap task force  uh the senate originally tried to call it asro   the department of defense said we don't like  that so much they came up with this crazy aoi msg   and now we have a-a-r-o which i think is the  one that may stick and if it does i don't mind   that because at least you can pronounce it you  can call it arrow you can say this is the aero   task force now bryce the thing that i think  deserves emphasis is that this proposed new   legislation that is still not passed by over the  house or the senate it's a toughening up because   there is clear dissatisfaction from the u.s  political representatives interested in uaps that   the pentagon and the intelligence community have  not been responding with sufficient aggression   and it's quite amazing i mean i've this is really  important one of the things that the bill requires   is that within six months of enactment the  secretary of defense the director of national   intelligence and the uap office director will  establish a core group that will include at a   minimum representatives with all necessary and  appropriate security clearances from the cia   the nsa the department of energy the nro national  reconnaissance office the air force space force   the defense intelligence agency the national  geospatial intelligence agency it also basically   requires them as they've previously been required  and so far as i'm told haven't done fully to   share the uap data with the uap office and it  reiterates that the dni must produce an annual   report on uap that is to be submitted to congress  in both an unclassified and a classified form   it's also going to tighten the screws as dean  johnson points out by requiring that each head of   each element of the intelligence community provide  a report on the activities undertaken to support   the uap joint project office which is  really exciting they're actually making them   by legislation accountable for whatever they do i  found reading uh the the proposed language uh the   thing that started it uh was a good old-fashioned  scolding of the department of defense uh which i   found kind of refreshing because it's one thing  to say we we are expecting you to do something   and then years go by and we've seen this happen  on other things where you just go well whatever   happened to that and it just got left left aside  but clearly the authors of this legislation were   saying uh not this time we're going to hold you  accountable and you just named all these different   um organizations that have to play in that in that  ballpark which by the way i hope you were reading   off the list because if you did it off the top of  your head uh that was amazing and i applaud you   for it but but there's going to be some talking go  ahead yeah there's one more and this is probably   the most important now this is in the context  of this notorious admiral wilson memo which   is the memo that its provenance is obviously  held in doubt by some debunkers and skeptics   but this is a memo that suggests that if there  is a legacy program it's not being hidden inside   the government it's being hidden inside private  aerospace inside a private contractor somewhere   and that's where this legislation has really  brought in new proposed new teeth it would it   would require a system where former or current  government employees and former and current   employees of government contractors will be under  a statutory shield to essentially reveal any   appropriate information that's currently protected  by classification laws or non-disclosure orders   this includes any event relating to  unidentified aerospace or undersea phenomena and   this is this is the big one any government or  government contractor activity or program related   to unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena  i'm going to call that the admiral wilson clause   yeah okay good i like coining that uh i i have  to tell you i've been uh looking into this   topic for uh three decades uh now and this  makes me a little emotional this one because   uh when i read the uh the language and i here's  the thing for three decades uh i've heard about   a lot of these concepts of course uh people  talk about them but we kept saying you know   things to ourselves it was like talking amongst  yourselves and and the government was silent and   official them in the media was silent and now  in this language this language addresses some   of the very things that we were saying in private  that are now being said out loud things like you   just said technology going to private aerospace  firms i mean people have been saying that for   years but nobody's ever put it in writing from  the u.s government and talking about crashes and   technology and biological uh effects and and then  witnesses with immunity and whistleblowers and   it's just a wonderful moment in the history  of where this whole thing may be going   and and i you know like i said i i'm not gonna  break down and cry right now but i will if they   actually uh get some teeth in this thing and i  see some hearings that instead of the may 17th   hearing that you and i uh literally took to the  woodshed uh a couple of months ago if we actually   see hearings with teeth with real witnesses  saying real things in public oh my oh my and   my friend there is more but we'll have to bring  that up next on the next segment of need to know stay with us we're back in a  moment because you need to know is that when a lot of let's say these events were  occurring and there's claimed crash materials   that might have been uh collected this went off to  places like lockheed and all of the big aerospace   companies they wanted to profit off of it and many  of them basically took a lot of the information   set it aside and they decided okay we're going  to profit off it we're not going to tell congress   what this is all about because if we do then maybe  we have to share this with mcdonald douglas all   right we're back uh i'm bryce abel ross coltart in  australia and we were just listening to stanford   professor gary nolan who is almost ubiquitous on  the media these days he did a half hour interview   with tucker carlson that that clip just came from  nolan is just a big guy to be starting to talk as   openly as he seems to be talking not only is he a  stanford professor but he's uh he's written like   300 research articles he's got 40 patents i mean  he's a he's a major person he's received an award   from the department of defense the cia  has come to talk to him i mean ross   he's a major guy he's talking at length and  you my friend have talked to him one on one   i have and that will be part of a forthcoming  documentary that will appear on australian   television very soon and we'll be able to use a  lot of it in our podcast as well because he's very   very expensive in what he told me i was excited  though by what he told tucker because he talked in   a great deal of detail about a lot of things that  have been very much in the dark for many years he   talked in detail about how he was contacted at  stanford by the cia sounds like something out   of a movie you know that episode in a rival the  film where the woman gets approached by the men   in black who ask you to go away and talk to the  aliens gary had something similar he basically had   the cia show up who wanted to him to investigate  the the strange ailments that have been contracted   by certain military and government employees after  they'd come into contact with certain unidentified   craft and that's the word he used craft he was  chosen by the cia's the best person to conduct   such an investigation because he's got an enormous  international reputation as an immunologist   with his expertise on blood analysis and some  of the 40 patents that gary has developed i mean   the guy is so brilliant i mean i i was a  privilege i spent a whole day with him at   stanford very recently and he was walking me  around his laboratories and showing me the uh   the machinery that uh he's developed and the  thing i love about him is he acknowledges   fulsomely that a lot of the work that he does  is funded by the us the federal government   but he loves the idea of giving him back and  so a lot of the things that he's developed   the technology that he's developed he's worked  up in collaboration with some of his staff and   he's basically patented that technology and  two of the companies that he's floated as a   result of developing that technology are now  on the nasdaq but my favorite quote from the   exchange between tucker and gary nolan was tucker  asked him you're around people that's scientists   who study this stuff for a living the most  knowledgeable people on this topic in the world   what is their general sense of what this might be  he did not shy away from answering that go ahead   i'll give it to you he said that this is not from  earth yeah this is not from earth i mean gary used   the alien word basically now you just mentioned uh  his statement that that this is not of this earth   i i sat there and listened to this thing and i  just wrote i'm not going to go through all of   them but i just wrote down some things that just  kind of blew my mind i mean the way he phrased   things he said well these people are hundreds of  technology revolutions ahead of us i just thought   that was a clever way to put it then he did say  that thing about not from this earth and he also   went on right after that and he said whatever  it is it's clearly been here for a long time   i thought that was and then he said it raises  questions of whose planet is this really i mean   wow i mean that was shocking uh he he just went on  and on welcome to tucker carlson today the crazy   thing about the topic of ufos is how when you  get into it how really non-crazy a lot of the   people who know a lot about the topic turn out  to be they're kind of the opposite of what you   imagine they're not for conspiracy nuts a lot of  them are just scientists so the next question is   well if they've been here all along before we were  even civilized well whose planet is this really   um he brought up trinity uh the 1945 case as a  real case uh so basically trinity aztec roswell   being sort of a triad of crashes um he you know  and i got to give carlson thing one thing he   says he he said it in a way that i thought was  interesting he talked about the edifice of lies   starting to crack and i don't know about you  ross but that's kind of how i feel about it   look the interesting thing about it was the candor  with which a very well-respected international   scientist who by the way louis luzondo lit to  slip the other day gary has been nominated for a   nobel prize i mean this is no lightweight this is  a scientist of international reputation there are   people in cancer research here in australia  who vouched to me about gary saying he was   hugely well respected and the interesting thing  is i actually asked him i said you know you're an   immunologist but obviously um you don't have the  broad expertise that would get into the the study   of a lot of the issues behind the uap phenomenon  and he acknowledged that you know he's a good   scientist he said look i only deal in evidence i'm  interested in data or data or how you guys say it   over there and the interesting thing is he he's  very humble in his own way i i deeply admire them   but i got the impression the thing that really  interested me was how much his own staff   love him you know this is the kind of i think  that's why that's probably true you've seen it up   uh up close i mean he is a certainly a fascinating  guy and what's interesting is he could just stay   in his lane as they say and he could just do the  biology and the immunology but he's obviously   thought about this a great deal and he's he's  willing to speak more about it i thought i thought   that was interesting you talked about what an  incredible uh background he has i i just have   to put the one thing he said toward the end out  there because i thought this is pretty astonishing   coming from someone of his merit he said and  this is the quote i wrote down the nature of   our reality is yet to be completely understood i  mean holy crap that's an interesting thing to say   on national tv you know one of the things that  i think is a constant theme now of comments from   people like louis lozando chris mellon gary  nolan hal put off eric davis a lot of those   people who've who've had the either the needs  experience or some insights that have come because   of their associations with certain you should you  should tell us what tell our audience what nids is   before we are the national institute of discovery  science bob bob bigelow's robert bigelow's um   in privately funded investigation essentially into  the paranormal and uaps but there's a consistency   coming through now with the way all of these  people talk the extraterrestrial hypothesis   the simple notion that these are little green  men from zeta reticuli who've bugged across   the galaxy in a faster than light vehicle doesn't  wash everyone's now talking about phenomenon that   has been here for a very very long time thousands  of years gary's made that very very clear in his   interview with tucker and he makes it even more  clear in this interview with me there is clearly   some insight that is both on the planet here  and it's also underwater and that's why i think   the reference in the proposed new legislation  before the congress to undersea phenomena is so   important i mean this that connection this mystery  is underwater is there evidence that there's a lot   of this kind of activity under sea yes yeah i  mean plenty right the sonar images show these   things moving at speeds a dozen times faster than  our fastest submarines with no cavitation right no   you know no basically bubbles behind them because  the movement would create a vacuum and would you   know basically make a giant bubble and and we'd  get this noise no noise just sonar images it's it   and in this and in space and in the skies  it's it's all over and and and even what   we think we can perceive might possibly  not even be the perception of it i mean   i was fascinated again by the way he talks uh  carlson asked him about abductions and he said   well uh he didn't really want to get into that  but he thought they were real but maybe they were   you know an imposed reality memory i mean he's  willing to talk about things in a way that you   just don't hear that often that's interesting and  it's interesting too because he tells this amazing   story of this french family in a car driving along  the road and the mother and the children have got   a glass ceiling in the car and they look up and  they see a gigantic craft through the the window   of the um the vehicle the roof of the vehicle  and they take a photograph and they're struck   as they're looking that nobody else in any other  cars is looking at what they're looking at and   so clearly whatever it is is manipulating their  perception because when they get the photographs   back and jacques vallee has published this  particular image instead of seeing a huge crap   hovering above their vehicle what they see is a  kind of a star-shaped object which is quite small   just hovering above their vehicle and so gary  talks about this and this is slide 9 this is this   commonly referred to slide that was used in  the briefing before the under secretary of   the department of defense that i write about  in my book and you and i have discussed on   different podcasts whatever this phenomenon is  the mystery of this phenomenon resides in the   fact that it is capable of manipulating  human consciousness and human perception   maybe what the ufos are maybe what the uaps are  is not what we think they are maybe whatever   it is they are manipulating our perception of  them listen you ha you have to accept that that   is a very legitimate way to look at it and because  that does it that is one of the few things that   answers all the facts however we do get to the  place and i don't think you and i have actually   spoken in depth about this i don't think it means  we have to throw the extraterrestrial part of   any theory out i mean there's no law that says  multiple things can't be true at once and uh i'm   still even though i agree with everything you  just said and what what nolan is saying part   of me still says there's an e.t aspect to this  thing and i would be surprised how they all play   yeah i wouldn't be surprised if he was but i'm  struck by both in the private and the public   conversations that i'm having with people on the  inside and that also people are saying publicly uh   people like professor nolan there is increasingly  a reference to the fact that to understand this   phenomenon we need to understand that whatever it  is it's capable of manipulating human perception   and it would also explain why going back over  history and you and i have covered this in   previous podcasts why going back over history  people have seen different things you know back   in roman days they saw flaming shields in the  world of ezekiel in the bible they saw spinning   flaming wheels in the 19th century in the us they  saw airships flying airships ships in the sky   and even throughout the 20th century what humans  are saying that they've seen has changed now at   the moment there's this kind of black triangle  phenomenon discs elliptical discs but previously   it was very much the foo fighter phenomenon during  the second world war just sort of flaming orbs   i i mean very true i mean you go from foo fighters  to ghost rockets to flying saucers but the   thing about it it all of what you just said so  stipulated but even in the modern ufo age there   are periods where different things are seen as  you you you were animating the first period if you   look at the so-called photos and descriptions from  the 50s even though they do cover the gamut a lot   of them are those kind of you know weird-looking  things that people said well that's just a hubcap   or whatever they were kind of low-tech and they  weren't lit and then they they transformed into   a period where we got the close-encounter kind  of craft from spielberg's film and now of course   as you said we're getting we're getting tic tacs  and we're getting uh black triangles uh what would   explain that well i guess you could say we're  we're being we got a lot of company and they're   all you know we don't all drive mercedes-benz some  of us drive nissans so maybe whoever's visiting   does that or you could say what what you just  said there is a consciousness aspect to this thing   that is beginning to reveal itself and frankly  from my point of view if it's about consciousness   and there's any kind of nefarious part to it  or dangerous part to that consciousness which   there obviously is then you'd have to say that  would explain why no u.s president for example  

ever wanted to go to the oval office and say okay  folks let me let me try to explain this to you   it's about consciousness but but it's more than  conscious i mean no president is going to do that   then or now so uh what i think is happening in  congress is preparing the battlefield if you will   for an increasingly uh sophisticated and high  level group of people to start talking in   different terms about the phenomenon and that will  uh allow people to speak more openly about it in   the public forum and i i agree with you by the way  too bryce about the fact that the extraterrestrial   phenomenon the notion of um off-planet life forms  may well explain part of this phenomenon and not   least because of cases like the betty and barney  hill case that i know you have some high degree of   expertise in and i understand you also got some  news on that map i do have a little bit of news   and it's not it's not what i would consider great  news um uh as you know i'm i'm interested in the   betty and barney hill case i've investigated it uh  i have a uh kathy martin and stan friedman's book   captured under option for a dramatic television  series so i'm into it and i did a lot of research   while i was writing the pilot for that particular  project and one of the things that i found out was   that it wasn't john fuller who wrote the  interrupted journey who really broke the story in   a big way it was an investigative reporter named  john latrell who did it the year earlier and um   and also um there's also been a lot  of talk that somehow betty and barney   were not being public with their story until  the the whole thing blew up on them and and then   and that it was the reporter that did this and  and the truth is that's not true and there's a   sign in new hampshire to mark the betty and barney  hill case that says these two things it says they   were not public with their story and the story was  leaked by the boston uh traveler well obviously   journalists don't leak stories people leak them  to us so i wrote the new hampshire department that   was in charge of that sign and said i think your  sign has two factors in it and they agreed with me   and we talked about this i think on our first  our first or second podcast and they said we're   going to change that sign so i just heard  from a journalist who was writing an article   for new hampshire magazine and uh i said you  should really call these people and find out   when they're changing that sign and he did and  because of budget cuts and pandemic and things   like that they said it's probably still five years  out so i don't know uh but but it was interesting   and you know i know we got to wrap this one  up i just want here's a here's a way to get   into our next um segment when i hear gary nolan  speak um i find him and i don't mean this in a   i'm not trying to make fun of him i'm just saying  i wondered when i heard him is gary nolan the new   lou elizondo and by that i simply mean that lou  elizondo's been so ubiquitous talking about this   that he's almost overexposed uh certainly  in the podcast world he's overexposed   and on tv he's been the one go-to guy i think  it's time for some other voices to come forward   and i think the gary nolan voice is an example  of what we're now going to start seeing more and   more and some of those people as you you know tie  back to the beginning are going to be testifying   and we're going to be hearing from those people  i agree with you bryce and and clearly what lies   behind all of this is the issue of what are  the implications of disclosure what are the   implications of what comes out of this imagine  if out of this senate congressional inquiry   a truth emerges about a non-human intelligence of  advanced technology that's been on this planet for   many many thousands of years that's what  we're exploring next on need to know stay with us we're back in a  moment because you need to know hello and welcome back to need to know now  we've been exploring in this week's podcast   the implications of the proposed legislation  that's coming up before the congress which   if enacted is momentous in its implications  it suggests very strongly and this is what   my sources have told me in my little foray in  washington in my little road trip with bryce it   suggests very strongly that there may very well be  soon whistleblowers coming forward before the us   congress at least in private hearing and perhaps  also in public hearings to reveal a lot that we   don't know about the uap issue perhaps it  might have something to do with a non-human   intelligence that's been on this planet for some  considerable time now what are the implications of   that now fortuitously serendipitously my colleague  bryce zabel has written a book with richard dolan   another respected podcaster and uap researcher  called after disclosure and bryce what are the   implications oh what happens what happens if  if somebody comes up in congress and admits   for the first time what a lot of people are  hinting at and i know the debunkers scoff   but we are now in uncharted territory we're now  in territory where officials uh insiders like   gary nolan are using the a word the alien word  they're suggesting very very strongly that the   best explanation for what we're seeing here is  possibly a non-human highly advanced intelligence   what is the implication from that well i prefer  not the a word but the d word and by d word i'm   talking disclosure it's something i've been  thinking about all my career uh the first film   i ever wrote was called official denial and  it was on sci-fi channel and it was literally   about the concept of uh the story focused  around disclosure what would disclosure mean let's take a walk you're not crazy mr cordless they're here and you've been keeping this a secret you think  the president should go on tv and tell us all   about it i think that would be a good start  and what would you have him say mr chorus   that alien intelligence and technology invades  our airspace at will abducts our citizenry and   performs surgical procedures on them but  we don't know who they are how to stop them   but it flies in the face of reason  mr chorus it undermines religion it   undermines authority and in fact is nothing more  than a prescription for blind and mindless panic i mean well what is disclosure in the context  of uap disclosure is when the majority of the   world or most people in the world accept  that we're not alone and that some form of   interaction between humans and a non-human  uh is happening and you know i used to think   that would be a long time in coming that's why i  built the dark skies tv series around it i had a   head of majestic 12 whose position was the  people can't handle the truth and the guy   working for him said the people have a right  to know which is the essence of the disclosure and so um you know about 10 years ago rich dolan  and i uh wrote a book called a.d after disclosure   because i i felt like there's been about 5 000  books written about ufos all sort of trying to   prove that they're real and i thought  wouldn't it be interesting to write a book   where instead of proving they're real you  assume that they're real and you talk about   how the world is going to change once we all buy  into that can i just stop you for a moment let's   i want to know what you think personally do  you think the evidence is in are you convinced   on the data i'm not asking for your belief i'm  asking you for your your knowledge on the data   do you think we're in a position now to be able to  say with any confidence that there is a non-human   intelligence on this planet well if you're talking  about data that i personally have access to or um   the average ufo uap researcher has access to maybe  not yet at that level that's a very high threshold   um but do i think that data exists of course i do  that's why the senators we talked about earlier   are running around like their hair is on fire  because they have seen beyond data they have seen   video that's hd uh that's more than a few seconds  and they've seen craft and they've heard stories   from good sources about not just as george knapp  said not just crash wreckage but actual craft and   bodies so yeah i think that that data because i  think a body a body laying in a in a warehouse   is data to me it's not data doesn't have to be  something always that i measure off a a radar   or something so yeah i think it exists anyway so  i i i think that it does exist but i don't think   it's available to us yet to where we can say  disclosure has happened i know some people like   to say well disclosures already happen not really  the government has admitted that uap is real   and that we probably don't make it in neither  does russia or china but that's different than   tossing out the word non-human intelligence um  but to answer your your larger question i think   that there are going to be some severe changes  i always you know ross i don't know have you got   have you seen uh dr strangelove in your film  history okay great film george c scott plays   general buck turgidson and he's talking to the  president in that movie and he says he's talking   about uh what's going to happen if we have a  nuclear war and i think it's very analogous to   what would happen after disclosure targets and the  general says to the president in case of nuclear   war he goes i ain't saying we're not going to  get our hair must all right and and i think that   ready or not here comes disclosure we're going to  have to deal with it and our hair is going to be   must and we're going to probably go horde toilet  paper again and many other things that we've done   in the past do you think there will be the panic  i mean one of the big excuses that i've heard   from some insiders about why this has been kept  secret for so long if it's true right if there   isn't non-human intelligence on this planet the  big excuse is that the public can't handle the   truth well immediately global mass panic yeah and  that goes back to uh orson welles doing the war of   the worlds broadcast in 1938 thinking that some  people believed it was real and were panicking   the answer to your question i think is going to  be some people will panic and some people will not   panic sort of like how they respond to virtually  everything the question is um how much panic does   it take before you get disruption so let's say  that after disclosure so many people are glued   to their television sets watching what what is  being said about this that about 10 percent of   the workforce or 20 of the workforce doesn't  show up for work for a week or 10 days all right   well some of that 10 or 20 are going to drive  gasoline trucks and they're not going to make   their deliveries and some people aren't going to  get gas and then those people are going to say   oh my god supply chain because the aliens and  then yeah there'll be some trouble but i i think   disclosure is something that you can look at  very closely over a short term period and say   i don't know that i'd call it panic that i  would call disruption massive interest but   then i think we're going to enter a period where  we're going to watch society reform itself around   this reality that we're not alone and by that  i mean we're going to hear about the government   the government's going to change medicine's  going to change politics is going to change   space exploration is going to change the  military is going to change the law is   going to change i mean you remember after 9 11  we said well everything's going to change and of   course it didn't really all change after 9 11. i  believe after disclosure it all really will change   now the implications of this uh we know  already there are admissions on the record   in the congress from the pentagon we know already  that there are objects some people say craft i.e   intelligently controlled vehicles doing  things that are way beyond known human   physics and the implications of those so-called  five observables are that someone or something   some entity is getting energy in a way that we  don't get energy that's got implications for   our fossil fuel industry so that's one hit so the  other the other one is um positive lift you know   we're talking about anti-gravity clearly whatever  this technology is if it's real something is   displaying in those five observables positive  lift anti-gravity a type of propulsion system   far beyond known human science what's the impact  of particularly the energy the free energy   capability the unlimited amounts of energy that  clearly must be being harnessed by these vehicles   if indeed they are vehicles many people think that  is the crux of the biscuit and why it's been held   secret for so long because one thing we can pre  pretty well be sure of whether we're talking about   tic tacs or or you know any of these craft that  have been seen doing any of the five observable   observables is that they're not flying around on  gasoline right they're not they're not filling up   at the local uh shell station uh before they  go out and do their maneuvers which means   there's an entirely different energy source that  is available to whoever is operating these craft   and this is what would revolutionize things  the thing is we know for a fact that there   is something displaying this this capability  we don't know who it is this is the mystery   we don't know who it is but clearly something  someone some entity is displaying this capability   and precisely that's the issue that is the issue  but it but but that is also why we don't have   full-on full d disclosure because acknowledging  that somebody is flying these craft out there   is one thing but that is not disclosure of who  they are right so we're still not there to the   we are not alone disclosure we have we have inched  up and put our toe in the water just where we're   willing to say there are craft that are doing  things we're not aware of and we don't know   who's making them but but it's still an open uh  question at least from the government spokespeople   that somebody human could be making these things  which i would argue still would be a radically   transformative thing to find out about uh in  in the near future and and it would obviously   involve a lot of humans lying about things and  so as you and i have said repeatedly i certainly   hope it's to human technology i mean i hope  that the united states has developed this in the   black and that we're sitting on positive lift  vehicles that are capable of anti-gravity and   incredible energy resources i just don't think  we are though i i just it just doesn't square   with what i've been told and frankly what you've  been told and and what the people that you know   the most authoritative people who have been  studying this and commenting on it are people   who just don't believe that i you know from  if you take the gary nolan's and and people   who have uh are now outspoken about this i don't  think any of them are really buying into yeah it's   china or russia that did it because they know  full well that this has been a phenomenon at   least since the 40s when china and russia weren't  doing it and i don't think many people think we're   capable of doing that right now because if we were  we would certainly be employing more aspects of   that technology and our own military defense so  uh i i don't buy it i think it is somebody else   um i don't know that it's et but i do think  it's probably a non-human intelligence   big question bryce and probably the final question  because we've got to keep the segment short   can we handle the truth i think that is the  essence it's i wrote an entire television   series on that very topic i've obsessed about it  my entire career i've i talked to people about it   constantly i remember the first time you and i met  on a zoom that was one of the issues that we were   kicking around and um i i guess where i come down  on it is um i hope so i hope we can handle the   truth i'm an optimist i believe we probably can  at the end of the day handle the truth uh i know   that this is going to be a radical transformation  that will be in the history books forever it will   completely change our world and uh i you know  i hope that we can get through that transition   one of the reasons that richard dolan and i  called our book a.d after disclosure the ad for us  

was more than after disclosure we were trying  to say look we were in a bc world the before   confirmation world and we were transitioning to  a after disclosure world and i i think that that   that's the the issue there um we are going  to we are now living in the beginning stages   of that transformation and right now most people  don't pay too much attention to it the people who   do pay attention to it openly ask that question  so i i want to end by just answering your question   can we handle the truth we better i think we can i  think we will i think like buck targets them we're   going to get our hair messed uh up a little bit  on this thing but i i really think at this point   in history there's not a lot we can do to stuff  this one back in the bag it's it's on way out for   all the reasons that we've spoken about uh in the  17 podcast prior to this one and at the beginning   of this one which is for reasons that will  historians are going to have to figure out later   there is a change afoot and a congress  for example and and the scientists uh   as another example who have been able to put  this aside and either ridicule it or ignore it   all these years that's changing scientists are  starting to study it and our representatives   are starting to demand answers and i don't think  it's up to only scientists and politicians it's   up to people like you and me and the rest of the  media and people average people who are i guess   listening at this point right now we all have a  role in what future we want to build out of this   i think in closing bryce i'm going to refer to  a wonderful speech that your president reagan   gave to the united nations where he talked about  what would bring the world together and he talked   candidly and i suspect it was done with a degree  of informed information from the inside he talked   candidly about how he thought that what would  bring the world together more than anything else   was the realization that we are not alone in this  universe that there is indeed another intelligence   out there so i'd like to leave on a sense of  optimism do you agree that indeed there might be   the one thing that could bring us all together  is the realization that we are not alone well   i'm going to i'm going to end on your optimism but  i'm going to uh call back to your ronald reagan um   yeah ronald reagan remember saw a ufo in 1974  and chased it with his plane that he was in   um so he he knew firsthand that it was was  real but i here's how i would uh put it   reagan was famous in his negotiations with the  soviet union for the phrase trust but verify   so i i almost think that is  relevant to the optimism idea   we need to be optimistic we need to trust but at  the same time we have to have our eyes wide open   we have to study this as intensively as anything's  ever been discussed or studied before and we all   have to come together as quickly as we can  which might mean that the ultimate disclosure   of of a uap reality from a non-human intelligence  may be the one thing that puts human beings on the   same side of the equation and and starts to  end some of this this terrible division that   we've had i think at that note we come to the  end of this edition of need to know but i like   the fact that we're ending on optimism  thanks chris we'll see you all next time aid to know is a joint production of  stellar productions and powerful owl   productions i'm producer richard  johnson and you can learn more   at need to know dot today  that's need to know dot today

2022-08-09 23:01

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