The CHINCHILLA Interview: New music, Momentum & The Power Of Collaboration
it's so nice to meet you by the way thank you so much for your reactions and stuff yeah you're very welcome um so nice to see I really genuinely enjoy watching them and it's just so it's so cool what's going on it is cool what's going on you your YouTube channel is growing a lot and people are discovering your music a lot more and and it's uh it's neat to see and it's neat to see I've said this in some of the reactions it's neat to see music right now uh I think in a lot of ways taking a turn back to you know vulnerability and realism and performances and not program together calculated tuned sorts of things and that's what's been so refreshing about I just did yesterday a reaction to fingers live yeah so that'll be coming up yeah no no I just filmed it yesterday so the idea is is that this interview and and that will go up you know around around the same time I'm very very happy to be here how did you how did you uh so you you found my channel through through the Run reactions obviously yeah okay Ren had had uh I I started by reacting to Ren stuff and he left a message I didn't even really know this until someone on my channel pointed it out but he's been watching my channel forever and uh since 2019 he commented on one of the First videos I did on compression and I didn't see it until someone pointed it out to me after I did my video on hiren and then Ren commented on that video so just this oh my God this interesting thing like you never know how long people have been watching uh and and how long you know things have been happening but it was really neat to see him comment and follow my channel and then and then of course to see your comments on the videos I've I've done with you in them talk about talk about getting started with Ren and and that whole process so Ren we met when I so I remember he went um viral like a few years ago I saw a busking video that he did yeah with um Sam Tompkins and it went it went it was really huge for a while and um I remember seeing that but then I sort of did I got a message basically randomly from someone called Ren and um sort of was like oh I'll read that later and then clicked on it and I was like oh oh my God it's this guy yeah and looked at his profile and was like God he's so talented the message was something like I think you're really I can't remember it was like I think you're really cool and really talented and I'd love to work together um no worries if not I'll just Admire from afar and I was like I love that and um and then I replied being like yes I'd love to work together and then that weekend he we I was actually on my way to Brighton to do where where Ren is from um to play The Great Escape Festival which is like a a big new music festival in the UK and so he came and watched uh my gig there and then we kind of met up and just decided to do a few songs together and then we were on the same management for a while as well which was just yeah which was like it meant it was very easy to work together a lot and to be in the same so we just kind of became like siblings yeah yeah that's really awesome talk about the experience of doing chalk outlines that performance I mean how to be me is amazing too but how did that work you guys preparing for that shoot it's live it's interactive you guys are staring at each other and when you guys lock eyes there's just something that happens that it just chills I know a lot of people but what what did that look like in in practicality in terms of like preparation and how many times did you do the song and is that the is that the 50th take or the first take that we're watching we did do quite a few takes uh-huh I think with Ren and me we have like we just have quite a similar like um like DNA in the way that we perform and I think like I don't think either of us ever said like let's look at each other in the eyes like neither of us it's never I don't think it's something that we were really aware of or that we planned it was just like let's shoot a live video for this and then kind of like on the day we sort of like marked it out and worked out how to do it and then um and then the eye contact thing I guess it just felt really natural like it's like I I do think that we have a really a similar a different but similar um way that we perform and it's like quite like it's very intense and like very emotional and I think that just it just was like very natural like um it kind of was yeah I think if you tried to plan something like that it would probably take away from the the authenticity of it and I think it just it was quite natural how it all happened something that that gets me when I watch performances like that is you know you have these coordinated runs up where you're doing these these harmonies and things are locked in from a musical perspective so much and that takes rehearsing that takes practice and planning there and there's this this balance of of well we we want to have we don't know what we're doing from a musical standpoint but we don't want to get to the point to where it's it's so like oh we gotta hit these notes we got to do these things we gotta that it becomes so tight and sterile so that those moments of spontaneous eye contact still happen right how do you it's probably something that you don't think about too much but I know from from performing myself that you can over practice and over rehearse and over plan how do you know where to how far to go in terms of preparation so that you still keep things Lively and unpredictable I think um you know interestingly what you're saying about um like it's not always perfectly in tune it's not always it's more about the emotion of it and I think that is also something that me and ren are quite similar in like I don't think it I don't think we are focused on like getting the vocals right when we're singing I think it's more about like the emotion and yeah I guess with rehearsing it's more it's less about like okay let's get this perfect like we we put time into it we do but um but it's less about okay let's get this perfectly like no you're flat on that like let's go again or it's it's more about like the demotion feel right in that bit and um and then I think in rehearsals it's kind of like once we've sorted out the structure we're like okay cool we know what we're doing you know that we kind of leave it there we don't like hammer it until it's like perfectly like I think it's you want to leave some of that like because yeah if you overdo the rehearsals I think it can on the day it can feel a bit like you know like the like the soul has been sucked out of it because we're both like oh this song right yeah so I think it was yeah you're like well or you know you think about some of the more overproduced concerts and stuff where you have Spike tape and you're you're trying to go to like one particular part on the stage and you know turn left and look at the guy on the right you know all that all that stuff you guys there's just this incredible amount of spontaneity um that that comes across and I've noticed that you know I've pointed them out in the videos I've done she went a little bit sharper on that note and you couldn't you couldn't redo that you couldn't do that ever again it's but because of that it's even more special and I love that you think of it as a good thing yeah by the way my thank God he said it was good that I was gone no wrong I don't do wrong right like what is wrong if it if it if it like punches you in the face and it's a little off off then then great right yeah um well you guys both I think part of this is you guys both got your start in in busking uh and and doing you know when when did you start you didn't actually I didn't I had never basked until I basked with Ren oh he was a uh really like he was a a well-versed busker yeah I had never done it and I'd done a lot of live shows but never busking and I when we bust I was like so nervous more nervous than a lot of gigs like I'd done um I toured with um sting and stuff and I did I supported staying on tour I've done like big arena shows yeah and then I went to busk and I was like I'm so terrified I was like I was so anxious about it I was so nervous and I think it's a totally different skill like and it's really fun I had the best time but I was so nervous because it's such a different skill it's like um you have to be so good at being spontaneous and being like just going with it and being like relaxed and talking to an audience who sort of care but are sort of just walking past a lot like um and it's just a completely different skill set I don't know it was really I don't know why I felt so nervous about it but once we got into it I was like I don't want to stop doing this I want to do it all day it was so fun and I think you know doing it with Ren like he knows what he's doing and he just made me feel super comfortable and um yeah it's just a different type of life that it gives a performance I loved it so once you once you got into it and got comfortable where in which environment are you more comfortable with your singing in the in the Big Show or in in the busking or the smaller stuff asking you're more comfortable with your singing and busking now yeah probably I mean I I still haven't done it a lot I only did it with Ren yeah but for some reason I think you know in like a big show when everything is so planned out and it's all like you know like you were just saying and you have tape of where to stand and you're like you've marked it all and you're playing to a click track and it's all like there's no room for like um there's not much room for as much spontaneity I think it's um it's you you do you are more focused on getting everything right yeah you know and I think with busking like when I'm less focused on getting everything right I get more right exactly yeah because I think when you're you know if you think if you overthink a note too much and you're like oh am I gonna hit it am I going to hit it absolutely it's a hit and miss but if you kind of just relax and relax at your actual vocal chords like I think you naturally hit the note better anyway and it's just I don't know something about busking I was like this is good like this is a good time and I was I felt like I sang well and like it was just very relaxed yeah it was really nice yeah that's really cool to hear you say some of those same things I talk about that on the Channel all the time about you know if you just relax into it and have fun and and become a character uh an alternate version of yourself then there's nobody to judge you right yes it's you're you're being an alternate uh being who is performing and doing all of these things and you're not accountable to anybody and and as a result you you do things that the normal you couldn't do because the normal you is too concerned about being judged or getting things right or or you know succeeding yeah definitely I had this old I remember I was in like a choir at school for a bit and I had this teacher who um the like choir teacher I remember them saying if you hit if you go to singer I know if you imagine you're about to sing alone yeah it's like if you imagine you're doing a low one you hit the high one way better yeah and if you imagine you're singing alone when you're singing a high note it's like and it works I don't know why it works yeah but it's weird I think yeah we get so in our heads about like hitting high notes and honestly it's so I get it with so anything I get it when I record songs like I'll I'll have a demo for a while and then I'll go to record the proper vocals for it and every time I'll end up being like Oh it takes me ages because I'm like I can't get it the same and it's just I've just overthought it so much and whereas on the day that I wrote it in the recording that I've sat with for ages it's like it was in the moment and I felt it so much and I guess like when you go to re-record it you've got used to it and you you don't feel as much you don't feel as strong emotions for it anymore and it's harder to get it right right it's such a curse yeah yeah overthinking is is horrible yeah so yeah I um I had listened and watched fingers the studio uh recording and I I did that shortly after I did the chalk outlines video that I did for random and started going through but did not watch the fingers live until I did the video on it and was just blown away at having sat with the studio recording for a while I guess what I'm I'm hearing in those two performances some of what you're articulating here about how like the studio one was good but the live version I want to hear sort of the behind the scenes on that the way that you cap you capture the improvisational stuff at the end and you that you build up to that Climax and then you do the um the the end an octave higher than you even did it on the studio recording there's so many things about that performance that just like I mean punched me in the gut left leaving me feeling like like oh I can't believe how how good this is and how free you were and I talk about that in in the recording or in the in the reaction I did you are totally abandoned into this this innocent yet sneakily devious and harmful character and and going back and forth between them talk about adapting that to to the live version so it was um I think live has always been where I've come alive ironically and I think um with that specific uh performance I had that because I did it with Hunger magazine yeah um and I had single uh fingers was my most recent single so when they were like oh what what uh song do you want to perform I remember thinking like how am I going to do because they wanted it acoustic and I was like how do I how am I gonna how am I gonna do that song acoustically yeah so I met with the keys player and we were just we were just like playing around with ideas and I we just ended up being like let's just make this completely different this is a sad song and I love that about songwriting as well that you don't sometimes realize something is a sad song or a has so much emotion in it because it's produced in a certain way and then you when you strip it back it's like oh my god I've just realized what this is about yeah I just I just um yeah I love I loved that I loved like putting it together with my keys player and um it was amazing and I think like we both felt this like real um emotion from it then that that I hadn't necessarily had before with that song and I think you know the um the outro on the on the live version where I say so keep them close to you put your keys in your knuckles like I have to uh-huh that was like literally it was like sometimes I think there's like magic moments in music and honestly we were in this room me and my keys player like we were just like playing on a on a shitty keyboard like and we um he just was playing the chords and I was like oh yeah like keep playing that and then I honestly like it just came out of my mouth and we were both like wait what and I was like I think it was around the time that the metoo movement was very like sure in its um having its big you know um time and and I just had it so much on the brain and I think that song then became it's a lot it became even more empowering for me and I think you know honestly it was like it was like living in my subconscious and then I just I sang it like in real time and I have the recording on it I have the record I have like a voice memo of when I sang it and then we were both like stopped and were like we should do that we should put that in at the end like it can just be an outfit for the live version and I think it's like my favorite it's one of my favorite lines and I think a lot of people when they see that video that's the bit that they comment on um is like that last line because I think it it like Touches at people especially women who you know that's a big it's a big well-known thing every woman has walked home with their keys and their Knuckles and um yeah yeah wow well I get all caught up in the in the vocal technique and performance and nerding out on on little nuances and oftentimes on First on first listen I I'm I sort of missed the lyrics and missed some of the other things because I'm so focused on like oh did you hear that things that I really picked up on with that video or with that performance in particular was your your ability to to breathe in and out of your notes and have this this rasp and this Sheen over over these pitches and then that's that's sort of the the self-protected uh I'm about to to kill someone um character and then when you start belting you lose that that Sheen and that Sheen is replaced with with this uncontainable power and I just love seeing that contrast there I wanted to ask you I know that you've said on on comments before that you don't really think too much about your voice uh but and I think that's that's the case for a lot of singers they they just kind of go for it acting off of pure emotion but how did you work your voice into a state over the years where you could practice where you could do what you do there had to have been some practicing and some intentional introspection to get where you're at what did that look like in your younger years I think I wonder if it's because I have quite a wide um like music taste yeah I think I've always loved you know I love big big belty voices I love them so much um and I always listen to them like I grew up listening to them I've always been obsessed with like big um big big vocalists who are some of your Heroes uh Beyonce yeah um Janice Joplin Etta James like Christina Aguilera Jessie J um big big female voices you know we had someone ask about Linda Ronstadt did you ever get into Linda Ronstadt I actually don't know who that is oh okay well then no but that yeah you should I don't know but I should yeah yeah what about uh Aretha Franklin Whitney Houston yeah yeah she's Aretha Franklin oh my God I can't believe I didn't say her before yesterday I actually had a little solo crying party when she died yeah I just cried to myself and watched videos of her and was just crying in my bed like yeah because she was amazing I loved her so much I totally hear uh like part Aretha Franklin in in your belts uh oh that's so nice thank you but you have this this Sinister uh I better watch out even just when listening uh which is I just I love that I love that about the way that you you're able to carry the listener like that uh so anyway you um we were talking about influences and and then uh what you have done to to get your voice to where it's at I actually had a really specific moment in my life when my voice kind of changed I remember I had I um had basically gone on holiday I maybe maybe my balls dropped or something like in some way but I went on holiday I had a singing lesson I might be was like 15 something like that 16 I don't know when um had a singing lesson before went on holiday and the burlesque you know burlesque with Christina Aguilera yeah film that had just come out and I was obsessed with it I loved it and I loved the soundtrack and I literally was in on just like a family summer holiday and I was listening to it the whole time like by the pool like and I was singing it the whole time like the whole time I was like doing all the runs and stuff trying to get them I was trying to belt and I came home from that holiday and on I swear my voice had changed into like this like big voice and I actually I remember thinking it and I was like oh no I must be like delusional about this but I went back to my singing teacher so it was probably a week and a half in between the lessons and he was like what happened your horses really come on and I was like that's what I thought and he was like yeah it's like he's really matured suddenly and I was like I know that's kind of what I thought and I think it was a bit of a turning point like I was always really really shy growing up and I had a lot of you know like um people never would uh sort of make fun of me because I always said sorry after everything like I remember walking past like a I brushed past like a tree once and I was like oh sorry just naturally sorry and then someone was like how have you just apologized to a tree yeah and then I think I was just quite yeah I was just quite shy and like unless I knew people well and then I was like very confident and but um I think the big voice it was like I'd had it inside but it just hadn't come out yet and I think yeah it was like a it was weird it was like a big it was a bit of a turning point and maybe I found my empowerment in that um in the albums um yeah yeah amusing over Christina uh in in a in a playful way where there wasn't any sort of obligation to you and really getting into that uh passionately your your voice accidentally exposed itself to you and and then you you know from there it was oh I I can I can do this yeah wow so and then I think that with the softer stuff like I've I've always also loved like I guess I love I love pop music and I love um you know the softer really gentle vulnerable almost whisper singing yeah right and I think just because I loved all these things I just I guess I just was like well I'll just do all of them yeah I'll just learn all of them and then I guess the more I did it the more I wrote it into my songs the more I performed it live and then I guess I just um got better at that I think that's the the the Intrigue for me with your with your singing particularly the live stuff is that you are one of the fewer vocalists out there that is doing both really really well and in one song and with uh with this darker sort of deranged uh atmosphere around it I I love that there's there's there's a there's a lot more music out there that feels too curated or um two planned sterile because of it and fingers live and the stuff you've done with Ren is the antithesis of that there's this this instant connection because there's vulnerability there's realism there's and you know an example of this is when you're talking about the line with the keys at the end right like these are things that that you that you're you're putting in because they mean something to you not because you're trying to make a great song and and your your stuff drips with that and and that's that I think that's what makes it so so cool talk about the the the production and performance aspects of fingers live you are at the same time you have this sort of raw approach to the singing and this and the songwriting I mean you're dressed up in all sorts of stuff uh and you've definitely got the the vibe and the character there do you find that the the the the dress up and the the makeup and the the planning in in that regard adds to or takes away from the ability to be spontaneous and energetic in the moment and I think it adds to it actually I I know it adds to it I think I I it's a bit like putting on a putting on your uniform yeah okay you know and I think I um if I'm not the nails I wear um usually not today but the nails I wear are really long and I think something about him something about them it really adds like I feel empowered when I wear them a lot of everything I wear is like and and do and sing is about feeling empowered I think you know those nails like I mean they literally elongate your fingers right every time a point it's like strong do you know what I mean and I think and sometimes I it's harder to then perform without them because I'm like oh I just have little stubby fingers and [Music] um yeah and I think I don't know I guess there's something about feeling like Grand that I love like I love I love I've always loved fashion and I love being creative with clothing and things and I make most of my hats that I wear so the hat in the fingers video I actually made that and um yeah and I I just I just love it and I feel like music there's so much space for creativity in so many different angles with it it's like why not go for it yeah and sort of use use what you can do and have a good time with every aspect of it well even even as I was asking that question I I thought about what we were talking about earlier about you know putting on these characters and that's exactly what this is right like you're you're entering by putting on these nails and putting on homemade hats you are you're entering into this alternate character that I I would say it's entering into a different um aspect of my personality okay that's how I describe it so it's like I think it gives me the permission yeah to step into that do you know what I mean yeah totally sometimes I I struggle with like um a lot of people say like oh oh the alter ego um and stuff and I think I don't know why it bothers me but I guess I think it's like oh no it's not an alter ego because it's definitely still it's definitely me it's just like a a difference it's like I have permission at that moment to be like to hat of you know to have to show those aspects of of my character which are and I think everyone has those aspects they're you know that anger that doesn't come out or the or the anger that you've been holding in for a while or you know like or sadness that you've been holding in that's pent up or um it's humor like vulnerability I am now fully independent I left my management and label last year I split with my management labels and um I'm now fully independent and I have just been working on a bunch of new music and um I this year is going to be the year of new music for me so I've got lots of stuff coming and I just um announced my first my like comeback single really and um it's called little girl gone and it's basically just like a really angry big um empowered like it just it just is a song and it's I basically I started teasing it on Tick Tock so I put up a teaser video for it that just had the chorus in it yeah um a week ago okay and um fully expecting it to get like six views and it got a million in under 24 hours it was on a million and I looked at my phone and was like what the [ __ ] and it just has kept going since there so now like all the teasers have got about 10 million views between them um I went from 16 000 followers on Tick Tock to I think it's like 170 000 today um uh in a week it's been a week and a day I think um and yeah it's just kind of like well it feels like my life was suddenly like done a big switch up and everything I mean musically it's like the most like oh I can't even describe how like rewarding and satisfying it is and um it's just so nice it's so nice and it's all like a lot of the uh a lot of the comments and people that it's resonating with are like are women who um have who feel this I think there's a lot of like pent-up anger you know and I think there's a lot of women who feel um we've been through a lot of trauma and things and are really resonating with uh with the like liberating anger that the song kind of has in it and like it's just so nice it's literally so nice I keep crying like it's amazing I've never um experienced anything like it well I haven't heard I haven't heard it yet but you you deserve what you've gotten and what's coming uh the freshness and and energy that you're putting out there is just absolutely incredible and it's it's so thank you so much so wonderfully refreshing are there any collaborations with this new music anything that uh that you can talk about not yet okay I'll be working with some cool people though yeah to be more direct and this question isn't coming directly from me although I do want to know but right will there be any more collaborations with Ren I thought I might be what um we'll do stuff we'll do stuff together in the future yeah that's all you can say right now he's in the yeah that's all I can say right now he's in Canada at the moment so um yeah but we're always you know we're always chatting and things yeah yeah that's really cool what in your in your in your past in your upbringing in your life has has led you to to expressing yourself in in this way that so many people are relating to right now I think solely being a woman like you you have been through it and I think um I can't speak I everything I speak for in myself I feel like women a lot of women would relate to it um I was you know as I said earlier I was quite shy growing up I was quite quiet um with people who didn't know me yeah and my mum always tells a story that I'd we we would go to like a friend's house or something and I would literally hide behind her leg and not say anything and just stare at them and they'd be like hi hello yeah hello and I would look at them I guess right like no no reaction I was just like I'm just not gonna talk and um and then they'd be like do you want a drink do you want do you want a drink and I would like stare at them and then just whisper to my mum what I wanted to drink and then they went like I was just so shy I think and I um yeah I think I don't know where it comes from exactly but I think I've always been quite a um a people pleaser and I think I'm quite susceptible to being um I guess being uh I don't know even the words you know talks down to and just being like I don't know how to I think when something like that happens I'm not I I struggle with how to um cope with it in the moment and um I think I find myself in a lot of situations in my life and I'm sure a lot of people do loads of people um where I'm walking away from a situation thinking of all the things that I should have said or want wanted to say and didn't because and I wouldn't if I was given the chance again I still would you know like keep my mouth shut or or you're in a position where you can't you can't stand up for yourself because someone is a higher authority or or or you just don't want to have a horrible hostile situation where you create an argument and I think you know like I just I feel that I I'm really uh I feel that really that really uh strongly that feeling of um not being able to just bite in your tongue biting your tongue and I think um I yeah a lot of my music is about not biting your tongue all the things I wish I should or should have or could have said yeah um and I think I think that's what people resonate with and I've you know like that's why it's so special to me when people comment things like that about their own stories and things and it's and I'm like I feel you like I and I think it's yeah I just think it's this Universal feeling of like people know that you know and um yeah well not only do you you you come across as like these are all the things that I wish I would have said sort of thing but you in in your performances and even in the in the words and the stories you tell um it's very hyperbolic I mean you're you're dialing up you're doing things in your songs that wouldn't just create this this hot you know conflict or whatever but they would they would be completely you know completely inappropriate um but you but you can put those in music you can put those things wrong and it it does the same thing that that it does for for everybody right like you wouldn't you wouldn't really go cut people's fingers off but the just the thought of it and the way that you the way that you look even when you you know you go from this sort of calculated to this as you're singing I mean we've all done that inside we've all gone from from this frustrated reserved pent up to losing it completely insane uh and and I think that's what it's it's such an artistic relatable uh thing and and done done in such a clever way um it's fun it's so funny um listening to you like analyze it because it's so interesting but it's also stuff that I would I don't even half the time I don't even realize like I'm doing it or you know it'll be like it's just like ins instinctive I guess it's just the way that I I perform and like it's yeah it's it's weird it's it's really it's just really like surreal and interesting hearing you talk about it what's fun with singers like you is that I know that for the most part it's instinctual um but there are so many vocalists or so many people out there who want to be singers that have the same emotions that have gone through similar experiences but when they open their mouth to try to express and they have the desire to express through their voice doesn't come out like what you're doing in fact they shut down where you feel liberated and empowered to express with your voice they are afraid and and and as a result reserved and then they try something and it doesn't sound right or it doesn't feel like it should and then they almost feel like their voices don't free them their voices trap them and I think that's what I find so interesting there's there's this dichotomy of people who we all have these same emotions and these these same stories and can relate to these same things but certain people naturally stumble into being able to express like you're able to and certain people they just how do I get there and they think that oh how I get there is first I have to be good and then I can express first I have to you know I gotta I gotta do these exercises I gotta figure out how to do um I gotta go through this program or or take a bunch of voice lessons or whatever and you said you did take lessons but you also said earlier that the moment where you really found your voice it wasn't because of what you'd studied it was because of what you were immersing yourself in and how you had experimented with it and then you were freed what what advice though would you give to people given what you've gone through with your own voice in how to find that level of self-expression so that you can enter into a musical environment and and just go oh that is a hard one I think um I think more is more wow is more Yngwie Malmsteen not always true um it's definitely not always true actually I completely disagree with what I just said but but I do think like you know especially when you're being watched like it's a performance or it's uh being filmed is even more like yeah um I think you know I did a I've done a couple of live videos and things and it's like I think watching them back I think actually that's a good thing I think watching yourself back is a really good tactic because you always think you're doing more than you are yeah um yeah and actually you know like half the time you're you're gonna be standing a little bit um just I think if you're nervous you naturally are more insular you know you're more like and um so if you watch it back you can kind of be like oh no that I need to like exaggerate more you know I remember at one specific live video I did where I thought I was going like this with my arms like like this yeah and actually they were like here and I'm like and I was like wow really interesting that I naturally thought like my arms were really like powerful out here and actually they were just almost beside my body and I had it was like really small the gesture um and I think there's just so much and I think you know like I always film everything because when I watch it back is the best way I can ever learn from anything yeah um you're watching and listening so you you have this yeah and what I what I love about that is the time to judge or learn from yourself is not while you're singing while you're filming the video while you're performing the time to do it is when you're watching it back and if you can separate those things so fully abandon into the moment give yourself to the moment of singing performing filming whatever it is without judgment you're not judging yourself then you're not afraid that you're gonna not hit the node or that you're gonna do whatever forget the words you're not afraid of any of that you're just going for it and abandoning into this moment and then yeah because of that you can give yourself permission to learn from what you did and then apply that to the next time it's that separation and you're a living example of this you are fully abandoned when you're doing things we can see that I love hearing that you watch it back then and go oh yeah well I could I could do this differently I could do this I'm you know what I'm going to be more expressive or less do this a little bit I love that I love it I always and I can't if I it's like I'll watch a whole get I'll do a full gig a half an hour set I'll get and watch the entire 30 minutes set like because I'm like and then I'll watch it again you know um I think oh what was I gonna say I do find it really interesting this um I can't remember what I was going to say carry on okay how does this watching back and listening back you're you're critiquing your performances right you were talking about your your hands okay go ahead it's to do with this it's I was gonna say I think a big part of it you know I'm super critical when I watch those um when I watch myself back but also I think a big part of it is being like that looks so good uh-huh like that sounded great and then you're way more confident because you know when you do that specific part in a song next time um next gig or whatever you're like I know this but it's good because I've literally seen it and I know it's good so you're calling out you're calling out the victories you're giving yourself an opportunity to Pat yourself on the back and say that was amazing in addition to the uh the the critiques or whatever you're not being hard on yourself only and I would imagine that you're probably you you know what is that the the compliment sandwich or what not that's not what it is where you have like you have the the compliment and then you have the suggestions and all the critiques and then you follow it up with another compliment and then you you're probably doing quite a bit of that or you're rewarding yourself and and uh critiquing yourself at the same time yeah and I think it's it's self-analysis really isn't it it's like you never meet yourself because you are yourself yeah so it's kind of trying to understand I think how other people are are seeing you as well it can get a bit obsessive I guess but it's um I think it's interesting and I think it's you know the more the more you know the more powerful you are in some ways you know totally yeah it it helps you the more you know I like what I like that it creates a self-awareness that you can work with and especially when there's so much hate uh-huh you know on on every video they'll be hate yeah and um I guess then if you can build up uh your belief in yourself to the extent that you're like but I know that bit was good or oh no all right yeah they're right about that bit or whatever but but I do like that other bit and I don't think that's about I don't know if you can really try and like love yourself in Parts at least parts of your performances and stuff I think that's a really um I'm still working on it yeah but it's uh oh it's a struggling to be able to do yeah how much of when you're watching and listening back is particularly focused on your vocal performance or your vocal delivery uh versus the the rest of it right or or is it Inseparable from that I think actually a lot of a lot of what I focus on is my vocals when I watch it back um because I'm kind of like so in the moment when I'm performing it that I'm not you know how we've we've been talking about it already but how I'm not too focused on getting all the notes right and whatever and making sure it's technically like 100 there yeah then when I watch it back some things will feel good in a room as well and then like when you watch it back you're like oh God that note was terrible I don't know how people even applauded that like yeah and I think um yeah but those are those are that's where I'm super critical I think of my of myself is what is in the actual vocal do you actual vocals do you cringe sometimes when you listen back to yourself and how how do you deal how do you channel that into not then being fearful the next time you go out to record because that's a feedback loop that a lot of vocalists get into it's like well I heard myself back I watch myself and oh is that a terrible so then when they go the next time they are so afraid of sounding terrible they can't abandon into the moment again have you ever found yourself in that Loop I have yeah I have because I think um it's usually like if it's a big long if it's a really high belted long note I'm like I need to nail that and I need to hit it because if I don't it's super embarrassing and it's like you know like you're making a statement to do a note like that so if you don't hit it it's like yeah that was very cool and um you know like there's been times when I've watched stuff back especially like if you're on tour and you're doing it every night there's there's some that are just super bad and I think um yeah when I watch them back I think it helps it does help because I think when I'm sometimes I'm so caught up in the performance that actually the vocals I feel like I I just go for it and I and sometimes you do have to be like okay you have got a big Note coming up you need to sort of like make sure that you have enough breath for that moment or whatever and I think sometimes it reminds me like if I see a video where I was a bit pitchy on a note or something um I'll I'll have that in my head for the next gig and be like I'll remember I'll be like make sure you get this bit all right because last time you're a little bit flat on it or whatever yeah so that's good it helps me but I do have it sometimes you know if I've done it more than once where I haven't been able to do it very well sometimes it gets in my head and then I overthink it and then it can actually that will mess up the note or I'll or I'll avoid doing it all together and change the part or something and um yeah it's a bad Loop to get into well that I heard you say something about you know you might you might change something or you know if you've had a couple times where it's been bad and uh especially when you're on tour there's there's this aspect of like well I have to do this for you know so many nights in a row or or whatever how are you budgeting your voice so that you can do things consistently you know it it is probably a combination of of changing some things or going real hard one night and not not so much the next night or I'm sure it's also partly in the writing of of how you well I've got to perform all these songs together they can't all be I only have so many money notes in me talk a little bit about that the the pacing that you have to go through to get through things I think I'm still I'm still working that out yes yeah when I've been on tours I it's it's difficult you know um I think I it's a lot of it's in the set list like I'll try and make sure that I have like some down numbers or like I'll put a a long speaking section after a really really crazy song or something and yeah I'll just like get my breath back for a while and then do like a ballad which is kind of still hard to sing but a bit slower right um but most of my songs are kind of like it's funny when I'm working with my band in a rehearsal and trying to um we're trying to like make a set list it's like okay let's put an easy song Here Yeah and then we're all like there aren't really any there won't be any easy songs because I feel like every time I write a song I'm like and now for the big moment yeah um or especially in a live Arrangement I'm like that needs to be a big moment but um no yeah it's it's it's like it's difficult to Pace I think um I more I also have it in uh performing like I wear now if I go on tour I wear knee pads every every night on stage oh wow under my trousers because um I was really really messing up my knees for a while I would drop onto them and I'd like walk across the stage because I just get so into it and it's not like it wasn't an option to be like I need to stop doing that because I said that and then in the moment the moment would come and I'd be like I don't care about my knee yeah and then um I was I'd be like not able to walk properly for like a week you know I couldn't do like any lunges or squats or anything at the gym because my knees were so weak from it um for for months and so things like that and also like the nails I wear like the glue that sticks them on I have to um I got a different glue because I was like ripping off my nail beds every night now beds but I just thought that it came to a point where I was like okay I need to physically take a bit more take like look after myself a bit more I also never ever drink anything the night before a show um drink any alcohol or anything or smoke or anything like that um I'm quite like have a I have a I love vocal zones I'm always eating vocal zones they're like do you know vocal zones no oh they're amazing maybe they're a UK thing I'm not sure but they're like these um they're basically like little uh sweets for like like they're really mental oh oh or like like um are you you're probably just using a different word like these are laws and just like cough drops sort of thing like these have lemon and honey yeah yeah that kind of thing yeah okay yeah yeah yes I do have those what are you calling them vocal zones they're specifically for vocals oh no so I don't I don't have that brand or that I'll have to look into them that's that's cool I'm actually gonna I'm gonna send you some okay because that's amazing that's so good you have to know about them yeah um I like live off them on tour when I'm recording oh wow anytime I need to sing I'm like where are the books um yeah lemon and honey um I try not to drink like any coffee or anything before I go on because of so just any or anything like dodgy that's too you know yeah so you said you don't smoke before the shows are you a smoker do you smoke some um sometimes socially yeah and do you find any any interaction with your voice that is lasting or or is it no big deal um I think it's more in my head but like when I have I'll smoke sometimes like but then if I go if I have something coming up so for example I have a um I'm just very good at like being like okay now I'm not gonna do anything now for you know I can switch it off I'm I'm lucky that I don't have I don't get addicted to it easily I think yeah um so for example I have a music video that I'm shooting in a in a few days and I just a few days ago was like right I'm not gonna drink coffee anymore until I shot the music video I'm also not going to drink or smoke or anything like that um yeah and yeah so you don't have any vices you're you can you can enjoy things when you want to enjoy them and put your mind at ease a little bit but you don't have to do it that's really awesome well yeah sometimes fluffy coffees coffees like probably I love the coffee actually yeah sometimes it makes me anxious yeah coffee makes me really anxious I I have to do that's actually why I'm not drinking it at the moment because this because music videos are just so stressful like there's so much to plan and I'm like I can't afford to be more anxious than I already am right what was it like opening for sting nice thing it was awesome it was like uh I always call it definition deep end like it was severe deep end um going from have never having never done anything like that to you know like big Arenas and it was very random pairing um but it was amazing it was amazing his team were so lovely like they just really looked after us they had no um no egos like they were just really welcoming and wanted to help us out as much as they could and no one was you know like oh this is our this is our person like they were like oh yeah they were just so nice and um it was such a nice experience and it was amazing it was I was lucky because I did um the whole I did the European Eastern European leg of the tour so I did four shows with him and um and I think the first show I was like purely nervous um to the point where I didn't enjoy it really because I was so nervous and I just was trying to get through it and do it right you know um the second show I was like really nervous but I was like okay I enjoyed that one a bit Yeah and then the third show I was like oh no I'm starting to really enjoy it and by the fourth show it was like okay I purely enjoyed that and obviously I was nervous but it's it wasn't like to the point where it was like crippling right um it was just it was like boot camp of uh music industry boot camp like it was insane and it was amazing it was so amazing what would you say one of your main takeaways was coming off of that like what what do you carry with you from that experience into everything you're doing now it really taught me a lot about stamina ah he I mean he's sting he's he's in such good shape like he's vocally he was amazing every night yeah he was doing these really long probably an hour and a half to two hour performances every single night and I know that it's like something that we all know happens like everyone you know these huge artists they go on tour they do two-hour shows every single night for a year or whatever or with a few days off um but actually seeing it and actually being on the tour yeah I was like wow this is incredible like I can't and he's um I think he's in his 70s it's still yeah honestly it's unbelievable I was like because also I we did the tour on a budget and we stayed in airbnbs it was the cheapest way to do it so we were like getting like coaches at like 5 a.m because it was the cheapest coach to get so we'd wake up after a show like at five and then get a coach to the next city and then we wouldn't be able to check into our next Airbnb until like 3 P.M so then we'd be like hauling our bags around this city and then we'd go to the Airbnb check in and then it would be like straight to soundcheck and it was really really tiring um that tour like that was a big a big takeaway from that tour was like it was amazing but it was really tiring and I remember thinking like I don't know how to do this like I don't know how people do this because I was not um it was it was physically exhausting and it was vocally exhausting and by the last show I was almost losing my voice and I did four um and I was just I was just so impressed with him I think and the whole band and everyone but I think it's especially vocally like you know if you have a cold and you can you can still play guitar right vocally it's it's just like yeah it was incredible and I've I think it taught me a lot about you know actually being in that experience I it taught me a lot about stamina basically yeah wow so how long were your bits every every every night half an hour yours were half an hour and yeah and and he was doing an hour and a half or so and at seven yeah because we did it on a budget it was only me and one musician on stage so you had I really had to bring it like I really had to like give it but so much energy I was like running around the stage every night you know like I was I was all the dancers and I was all the parts in the song and I was like okay there can't be a moment where people are bored so I was really like it was like yeah really exhausting and I guess if you had a bigger budget and you know a bigger yeah you'd be able to have moments where you are off stage or you're not singing not dancing but let me introduce you to my drummer and then you walk off stage and yeah that kind of thing have a little lie down yeah well so so you learned a lot about stamina and and with all of these stages of your singing career you you learn and and adapt what does practicing look like for you I know just prior to this call you were practicing for a a shoot but when it comes to practicing your singing do you practice do you have like a a warm-up routine or things that you do or or do you is it mainly just on the job training where you're writing a song and doing videos and Performing and your voice gets better because of that or both it's it's mainly yeah on-the-job training as you said it's kind of like living doing music every day naturally singing every day um you build your voice through that you don't build your voice through some particular routine or or um no well I do have a I have a vocal warm-up that I do every time I'm I do it every time I'm recording properly uh like properly recording vocals like doing a vocal session yeah um or and also every gig yeah um I should also do it at like rehearsals but I don't usually which is bad I should start to do that I think I need to I want to um we need to look after our instruments absolutely and it's not something that that can just uh every time I rehearse no you can't go buy a new voice put new vocal cords on you you got one yeah but vocal vocal zones are amazing okay um I do take a lot of them and they are really good for your voice as well okay so between vocal zones and a semi consistent warm-up and then other than that you're you're practicing on the job while you're writing recording and Performing and that's that's cool and it's honestly that's uh that's par that's what that's what most successful career singers do they don't have some sort of um regime the regime is the creation and and learning and growing through creation and I think that if you look at other fields if you even go outside of music right you know people will go to go to school to become a pilot or something but you don't really learn how to be a pilot until you are a pilot you can read about it you can you can do and I think that sort of that sort of um way of thinking like you can learn about being a singer you can you can do things that that other singers have done but until you are in a position where you are saying I'm a singer and and you have things set up to where you're living the life of a vocalist the life of an artist you're never going to learn it has there has to be that element on the job training in order to be so so to put things in your path that cause you to improve as a result rather than pursuing Improvement as the as the end right like you're you're not necessarily sitting around you're not well you're not sitting around at all especially now but you're not sitting around going I have to get my voice to a certain level before I can go release my next single or film my next video or go on my next tour you are planning these things you're actively writing and Performing and recording and as a result you are getting to that next level because you have the you have the Pursuits in the right order being good is the result of doing what you do being good is not a pres it's not a pursuit in and of itself that enables you to do what you do it's an interesting different way of thinking but you're a living example of that yeah yeah I think it's interesting you know um it's also like there's so much longer days when a singer was just a singer do you know I mean and I struggled it's kind of sad it is sad it's I love doing all the other stuff around being an artist but like it's a shame that I don't get more time to actually just sing yeah which is so ironic you know um and and actually practice like I used to do um I used to have a really great vocal coach and I did um you know he'd give me a new song every week and I would go away and learn the song like I mean like meticulously practice it yeah every single run I'd go over it like that was just his way of that was his way of vocal training like every single run you'd go over it 30 times until you got it perfectly and it was not that's not an exaggeration like 30 times like and it was um it
2023-04-24 16:39
