【4K】 A Chat between Lovers — on Belief, Making Art, and Current Moments (w/Sub)
I was thinking, 我在想啊 It feels like 感觉我昨天其实 I was having a belief crisis yesterday. 有一点信仰危机 That's why you are sad? 你因为这个不开心啊 - Was it yesterday? - Yes -是昨天吗 -对 Believing 真正的去信 Buddhism or Christianity -- 佛教也好 基督教也好 I couldn't convince myself 去相信这些宗教里的解答 to believe those religious solutions 我并没有办法说服自己 completely. 去完全相信它 But I think as humans, 但是我又觉得 we still need to have faith. 依然是需要信仰的
There are some dead points in life 我觉得在生活有一些点 that take faith to break through. 是需要通过信仰来突破的 Just like Kierkegaard's philosophy. 就像克尔凯郭尔的哲学一样 This is the kind of topic I don't want to get into. 这个话题我不想进行展开
I think faith is something I don't feel comfortable talking about. 我觉得信仰是一个我不太能自如的谈论的东西 This format always embarrasses me. 这种形式总是让我很尴尬 Faith is not about theory, 信仰不是一个理论 It's more about practice. 而更多是关于实践 Faith is an essence, 信仰可以说是一种精髓 A spiritual manifestation. 一种精神的显现 So this is something that I don't know how to verbally organize. 所以这个东西我不知道怎么用语言去组织 I think faith is 我觉得这个是不可言说之物 an ineffable thing. 所带来的一些
I mean, there is a reason you do art. 这可以解释为为什么要做艺术 But aesthetics is something 但是如果说美学这个东西 that is very broad and vague. 它非常的宽泛 It can be defined by the individual, 它可以是个人 你觉得 it could be whatever depth 你达到了什么深度 one aims to achieve. 它就可以成为那个
It doesn't require any external criteria. 它不需要任何外在的标准 There are no universal values (ethics) in it. 也没有任何普世的价值(伦理道德)在其中 Just like you said, it's unspeakable. 就是像你说的无法言说
But can't we find something to say about it? 可是它有没有什么东西是可说的呢 That's not true. 不是这样的 This thing is a self explicit thing that falls when it is said. 这个东西是个明者自明 说出来就掉价的东西 It's evaporating while we're talking about it. 在我们谈论它的时候 这个东西已经蒸发掉了 but I think that's necessary to be said. 不啊 但我觉得这个是要去说的
If we say that it's something 这个东西你不说 we all know, 就说我们大家都知道 and it's self explicit 明者自明 no one needs to say it, 根本没有人需要去说它 I don't think that's right either. 我觉得这样也是不对的 So what struck you? 所以什么东西触动到了你 I'm more concerned with your state of mind, 我比较关心的是你的思想状态 I don't care much about this topic. 这个东西本身我不太在乎 To me, it's hard to 对于我来讲 sincerely believe in all existing religions. 我不太可能真诚的相信现存的所有宗教 Another option in modern time is science, 那么现在世界的另一个导向是科学 which I don't think it gives the ultimate answer either. 但我也不认为它可以给出一个终极答案 I don't think we should enter a faithless era. 并不可能进入一个无信仰的时代 The need of faith is inevitable 我觉得人活到一个点 when we reach certain ends in life. 就会需要信仰的
The very existence of the world implies something beyond its materiality. 世界的存在自身就暗示着一些超出物质世界的东西 Or at least, that's how I feel about life. 或者说我对生活的理解是这样 I believe there's something beyond the physical world 我觉得有什么东西是超出物质世界的 This belongs to... 这个是属于我 well, I'm not in the stage of talking about those things. 我现在并不在谈论这种事情的状态 Why is this whole thing so serious... 为什么这个整的好严肃... It's just that I think 就是我觉得 It's a strange loop. 我觉得这是一个思维怪圈
I don't think this behavior exists. 我觉得不存在这个行为 Including Kierkegaard... 包括克尔凯郭尔... What behavior does not exist? 不存在什么行为？ Belief crisis. 信仰危机 That's another way to interpret it. 也可以这么解释 I used to believe that 可以说我之前会觉得 certain point can be reached through art or other means 通过艺术或者其他的东西 可以通达一些地方 That thing is ineffable, 这个地方是不可言说的 and I am satisfied knowing that its there. 这个东西在那里 我就觉得可以了 I thought a strong individual is able to believe 当时觉得一个强个人是敢于去相信的 But yesterday this feeling occurred to me 但是昨天有一种感觉 that It can't just be this vague thing. 就是它并不能只是这么一个东西
Kierkegaard regarded to sincere faith 克尔凯郭尔有说 什么是真诚的信仰 as two scenarios 有两种情况 The first is when you have the true belief, 第一种情况是 你信仰了一个真的宗教 but use false heart and action 但是你用假的心和行为 to practice faith. 去进行信仰 The second case is when you believe something that is false, 第二种情况是 你信了一个假的东西 but your inner self is genuine. 但是你的内在性是真诚的 Kierkegaard says in this case, 克尔凯郭尔说 在这种情况下 the second condition is true faith. 第二种情况才是真正的信仰
As long as you sincerely believe 只要你非常真诚的去相信 It's right even if 那就算你相信的是错的东西 what you believe is wrong. 它也是对的 But I think 但是我在想 this argument is of no value. 他这个提出来没有任何价值 If I knew I was sincerely believing something false, 如果我知道我在真诚的信仰假的东西 this statement no longer exist 这本身说出来就已经不存在了 because I can't sincerely believe in something I know to be false, 因为我不可能真诚的信仰一个我知道是假的东西 I can only sincerely believe in what I believe to be true. 我只可能真诚的信仰一个我认为是真的东西 You can honestly believe one... 你可以很真诚的相信一件
Well, sincerity is a tricky thing. 真诚就是个很难讲的东西 I feel that it's important to believe. 我会感觉去相信还是挺重要的 It's easy not to believe anything, 不去信任何东西是很简单的 or say what I believe in is something I can't tell, 或者说 我信的东西是没办法跟别人讲的 or say what I believe has no form. 或者 我信的东西是没有形态的 It's very hard to really believe. 真正的去相信是非常难的 I think faith is love, 我觉得信仰就是 爱 although this love had been diluted in various forms 尽管这个爱被各种形式的稀释掉了 like language... , etc. 通过语言...等等 It lies in one's capability of love, 它就是在于一个人有没有爱的能力 It's a different category of things. 它是另一个范畴的东西
This is a strange psychological loop. 这是属于一个思维的怪圈 I'm pretty certain that I'm not in that range right now. 我现在非常确认我不在这个区间 I have found more possibilities in arts and literary works. 我在文艺作品里找到了更多可能性 The possibility of being human 一种作为人的可能性 The dignity of the individual 人的尊严 It sounds very shriveled when you say it. 这么说出来就非常干瘪瘪
I scorned humanity previously. 我的思路是 我之前会蔑视人性 There are so much despicable parts of human nature and behavior. 人类有太多可鄙的行径 That includes myself. 包括我自己也是这种情况 human have this multiplicity, 人有这种多面性 you just have to get over with it. 你必须要想办法克服 But even if there's only one point, 但是哪怕只有一个点 one being, 只有一个存在 even if that is your fantasy, 既使这个是你的幻想 臆想 as long as it offers the intensity some 但是只要它在一瞬间 能给深度 possibilities in a split second, 提供一些可能性 a thrill to your soul, 给你的灵魂带来一丝震颤的话 then that possibility lone 那这就是一种可能性 is worth-wise to put everything aside, 而这种可能性是值得你抛下所有的事情 to set it on fire. 为之付之一炬的
The so-called existential crisis you're talking about, 所谓的 你说的存在危机 or belief crisis, 或者信仰危机 They're not my concern. 我觉得这都不是我有所顾虑的 But I think although there are possibilitie, 但是我觉得 尽管有可能性 this whole concept is too aesthetic. 但是 这整个观念太美学了 No, it's not about aesthetic. 不 它不是美学
This whole thing 这整个是一个 The whole belief system is an ideology. 关于整个信仰体系 我觉得不过是一个意识形态 Everyone is talking about different things when they talk about faith 在说信仰的时候 每个人说的都不是一个东西 This is a language encapsulation system. 这是一个语言封装系统 Everyone talks about belief, 每个人都谈论信仰 but we don't refer to the same thing. 但是它的所指不是同一个东西 Some people might not call it belief 有些人可能不叫它信仰 for example I am doing my art, I'm writing a poem 比如说 我做我的艺术 写一首诗 I'm painting a piece of work 画一个作品 I don't even call if belief, 这种东西我不会把它叫做信仰 but it is an act of belief. 但是这是信仰的行动 What you just said can be applied to anything, 你刚刚这一套说辞可以套用在任何事情上 you can answer any question like this. 任何一个问题你都可以这样回答
Yeah. So I am after a better question 对 所以我想要一个更好的问题 Or a more 或者一个更加 When you frame this question 你在建构这个问题的时候 You say you have a crisis of faith 你说你有一个信仰危机 Expect my answer about how I think about faith 然后你想听我对信仰的想法 I might be too insensitive for this 这个 我可能太过于愚钝 I don't know how to answer this question 我不知道怎么去回答这个问题 I'm not interested in the answer 我对这个问题没什么兴趣 Maybe I'm in a state where I'm not interested in any answer 可能我现在的状态对任何问题都没兴趣 But I don't think it's quite true 但是我觉得也不能完全把它说成 to call it something that can't be discussed. 是没有办法讨论的东西 Your question must be answered in that form, 你这个问题必须以那种形式回答才可以 and the answer 而且这个答案 has to be delivered in that form, 必须通过那种形式给出来 in the most responsible way. 我觉得才够负责任 I think that's one of the ways... 我觉得这就是一种 怎么说
As an ordinary modern human living in this world, 作为一个普通 活在世界上的现代人来说 most people actually live completely meaningless lives, 很多人实际上活的完全没有意义 in an endless loop 活在一个循环往复的无限轮回中 not in terms of the idea of reincarnation, 轮回不是指灵魂的轮回 but in a mundane repetition of everyday life 而是在每天的轮回之中 to barely maintain the status quo 去勉强的维持现状 It's not even getting better 甚至并没有变得更好 But why they continue to live 但是为什么 要继续活着 for such things? 去做这种事呢 There is a lack of understanding 生跟死 for life and death, 尤其是对于死 especially for death. 他是没有概念的 This, shows the absence of faith. 这个我觉得就是信仰的缺失 So the faith I'm referring to, 所以我在讲的信仰 is not an aesthetic taste, 不是一个美学 not the ultimate depth, 不是什么是人生的真谛 but a simple answer to life and death. 而是很简单的对于生跟死的答案
Everything is linked back to that. 所有东西都跟这个有联结 What you say is the foundation, 你说的这个是基础啊 let's say the perspective of existentialism 单从存在主义的角度开始讲 - concerned regarding questions of life and death and freedom 一个关注生死和自由问题的 in its core 哲学流派 It started a series of philosophical reflections 它是在人的生存无意义的基础上 based on the meaninglessness of human existence. 进行的一系列哲学反思 It's an answer to the question you raised. 所抛出的 给这个问题的答案 What you're saying could be 你所说的 可以是 an influenced from Kierkegaard, 被克尔凯郭尔所影响 but that's just one way of looking at it. 但是 这只是看这个问题的一个角度 I really don't want to talk about this. 我真的不想讲这个 This is too obvious to me 因为这个对于我来讲太浅显了 And saying this out loud 而且把这个东西讲出来 doesn't bring any meaning to me. 不会给我带来任何升华
This is something 而且 这个东西 you need to take experience on. 就是你需要去体会的事情 I'm not here to give you a lecture. 我不是在这给你一个讲座 You are asking me to translate 你完全是要把我体会到的 the treasurable experiences and feelings 我认为有深度的东西 into vernacular. 给你翻译成白话让你听 Kafka and Kierkegaard are aiming at the same thing, 卡夫卡和克尔凯郭尔关注的是同一个东西 but they had different path towards it 但是他们的表述方式不一样 either way it works. 但是不管哪种方式 都是可行的 But their stuff can be talked about. 可是他们的东西是可以去谈论的 You can talk about Kafka Dostoevsky and Kierkegaard. 你可以谈论卡夫卡 陀思妥耶夫斯基 和克尔凯郭尔
Sure. You can talk about them, 是 你可以谈论他们 but you can't talk about what they're talking about. 可是你不能谈论他们谈论的东西 Their way of saying it is absolute. 他们的表述方式是绝对的 But this kind of talk about what they're talking about 但是呢 这种关于他们谈论的事情的谈论 No, such talk about 不对 这种谈论关于 about Kafka is 这个 关于卡夫卡的谈论是 You know, for people like me 你知道 你像我这种 如果 I don't like to think about these kind of thing 我不太喜欢想这种事情 Over time your brain kinda gets farted 久而久之你的脑子就秀逗了 So that's the downside of not thinking 所以这就是不思考的弊端 - So this comes from -- what was that? Hhh -所以 这个来自于 -刚刚那是啥hhh What was what 啥啥啥 I'm serious 我可是认真的 If you don't think and talk, 如果你不思考 不讲话的话 you get dumber. 你就会变傻 But dumb is a good thing. 但是变傻挺好的
You can't judge 在陀思妥耶夫斯基和梵高之间 between Dostoyevsky and Van Gogh. 没有一个更好的 But I think it's pleasing to talk about Van Gogh 但是我觉得谈梵高是快乐的 no, pleasing is the wrong word 不是 这个词不对 It has a kind of | ￣ | _ = 3 它带着一种 ○|￣|_ =3 brain fart? 秀逗啦 On very serious issues like this, 在这种非常严肃的问题上 I don't want to give you any dishonest answers. 我不想给你任何不诚实的答案 My honest answer would be, 我诚实的答案就是 I don't know. 我不知道 I don't know. 我不知道
But you don't have this puzzle. 但是你没有这种困惑 But you don't have this puzzle. 但是你没有这种困惑 You see, I have this puzzle. 你看 我就有一些困惑
No, this puzzle is very normal. 不是 这种困惑很正常 I had this puzzle for a long time. 我之前很长一段时间也有这种困惑 This is a dialectical logic. 这是一个辩证法的逻辑 It's a thought that leads you into a vicious circle. 这是一个将你带进一个怪圈的思路
This thinking itself is so boring to me. 这个思路本身我觉得就很没意思 But I also thought about that 但是我也有想到 The current economic society/consumer society 现在的这种经济社会 消费社会 obscures the problem of the lack of faith . 实际上很大程度上遮蔽了信仰空缺这个问题 You can live a good life without contemplating about it 你不去想这个问题也可以很好的生活 I think what you were saying, 但是我觉得 你刚刚说的 including your examples, 包括你举的例子 are about art and literature. 也是艺术 文学
But faith is different from art. 但是我觉得信仰跟艺术是不同的 Say Kafka, 像卡夫卡 he's not writing a religion. 他不是写了一个宗教 What he did was his literature, 他做的是他的文学 not faith. 而不是信仰
You can say it's artistic depth, 它可以是艺术的深度 But you can't replace faith with depth. 但是你并不能拿深度代表信仰 Well, first of all, I'm all the way over this question 首先 我觉得这个问题我早就跨过去了 of life and death, and all that. 关于生死 关于这些 I'm not saying that I reasoned it clearly, 我不是说我想的明明白白了 but realized it clearly. 我是体会的明明白白了 At least I feel like I realized it clearly now 最起码我现在觉得我体会的明明白白了 it is what it is. 就是这么回事儿 After the scientific revolution, 科学革命之后 everything started to work mechanically. 所有的一切都开始机械式的运作
We have the idea of economy system, 我们有了经济体的概念 we have ideology. 我们有了意识形态 We're no longer using family as a unit, 我们不再是以家庭为单位 but productivity. 而是以生产力为单位 In this case, 在这种情况下 the human spirit is suppressed to 人的精神是被压抑到 an alienated state. 一种分隔的个体式状态
Especially after urbanization, 特别是在城市化之后 everyone's time is squeezed into labor time. 每个人的时间被压榨成劳动时间 The so-called value is all based on money and labor. 所谓的人的价值 全是建立在金钱和工作时间体系上的 One has to contemplate on 这个巨大的空虚拿什么来填补呢 what is going to fill this vast void. 这个是人必须去思考的东西 So whether it's consumer goods 所以不管是消费品也好 or idols 偶像也好 or entertainment 娱乐也好 All of these things are strung together. 这些所有东西都会被串起来
It's a very easy way out. 是一种非常简单的挣脱方式 They are substitutes for faith in modern society. 它们是现代社会中 信仰的代替品 So no matter concerts or clubbing 所以演唱会也好 蹦迪也好 or having orgy sex 群交也好 they are all different levels of release 这种全部都是压抑的一种 in response to different forms of repression. 不同程度的释放 Because humans have this natural need 因为人自然有这种需求 to place their spirituality somewhere. 把自己的精神寄托到一个地方 But back to what I was saying before, 但是 回到我之前说的 I prefer Nietzsche's way. 我更喜欢尼采的方式 Because depending all these 因为我不觉得把这些东西 on anything, 寄托在任何的事物上 even religions, 或者宗教上 is a very 这种是一个非常 very easy way out. 简单的出路
It makes no difference to me, 你通过消费来找到自我价值 no matter you find meaning and value 或者通过所谓的相信宗教 through consuming or 来达到自我价值 through believing a form of religion. 在我这里没什么区别 No matter how religious you may be, 不管你信的有多虔诚 you still believe in a set of secular rules. 你还是在信一套世俗的东西 There is no room for self-generation. 没有一个自我的生成空间 I don't think that's pessimistic either 我觉得 这也不是悲观 It's to what extent belief can be expressed. 就是说 信仰能被在多大程度上被表达 I think when it gets to a certain population, 我觉得在人数到达一定基数时 faith is no longer that faith. 信仰就不再是那个东西了
There will also be a lack of 也缺少了一个 the depth that an individual can experience, 单个个体可以体会到的深度 and to build one's own belief system 所以去建立一个自己的信仰体系 is almost an impossible work. 这是一个几乎不可能的工作 In here, art plays 而且艺术在其中 a fundamental role. 起到一个根基上的作用 The idea that everything can be art 如果所有东西都是艺术 also says that everything is not art 也等同于没有东西是艺术 In other words, in the same domain 也就是说 它在同样的领域内 It reiterates: 它复述了这样一句话 "Everything can have meaning 所有东西都可以有意义 and Everything is meaningless" 所有东西也同时没有意义 I used to be intrigued by such ideas, 我以前非常为这种想法买单 but not anymore. 但是现在不再是了
I had to 我觉得这是一个 overcome such thing, 我需要让我自己走出来的地方 to find my own vitality. 去找到自己的动能 I spent a long time in Schopenhauer's philosophy. 我之前在叔本华的圈子里待了很久 He basically said everything is bullshit. 认为所有东西都是放屁 All men are born idle, meaningless, 所有人生下来就无所事事 moving around like ants, 没有任何意义 就像蚂蚁一样搬来搬去 to serve the greater Will . 服务于这个更大的世界洪流 The universe is a process of increasing entropy 宇宙是一个熵增的过程 Everything would collapse 世界所有一切都会被崩塌 So pessimism is the ultimate desire 所以悲观才是最终极的欲望 This torrent of will, your need to survive 这种意欲洪流才是真正生成的东西 and reproduce is what is really generated. 你的生存欲和生殖欲 This is Schopenhauer's idea, 这是叔本华的思想 and I was super into that. 我之前很沉迷于这种观念
And then I met Plato. 之后我遇到了柏拉图 He would say that 他会说 there are all kinds of us in this world, 这个世界里是我们形形色色的人 and the perfect things only exists in the world of ideas. 而理念世界里有很完美的东西 And then I ruled them out. 之后我就排除了 这些人
and met Nietzsche. 然后我有了尼采 Nietzsche gives a kind of 尼采说了一种 revolt against Schopenhauer's ideas. 对于叔本华思想的反抗 Say no to nihilism 对无意义说不 because that stuff doesn't have any depth, 因为这种东西没什么深度 anyone can express that. 谁都可以说 That denial was perfectly reasonable at the time. 这种否定 在当时非常合理
So say no to such thing, 所以对无意义说不 I felt it's a really cool thing. 我就感觉是一个非常屌的事情 And this feeling of total extremity was very attractive to me, 而且这种彻底的 极端性的感觉 非常吸引我 so I was in this state. 我当时是这种状态 And there's a trajectory of the existentialist philosophers 然后就有了存在主义哲学家 like Kierkegaard and Heidegger...etc 克尔凯郭尔 海德格尔这种人
Basically Kierkegaard is in a state of flight 基本上 克尔凯郭尔是一种在逃避的状态 except for his faith 除了他的信仰 He is completely leaping into his faith. 他是完全跳跃进他的信仰 He couldn't give his passion away 他不能把他的激情献给 to anything else. 其它任何事物 I can't relate with him very well, 我没有办法特别理解他 but I can feel his condition. 我能体会到他的状态 Alright, let's move on. 嗯 我们往下说 Going back to what you said earlier, 回到你很早之前说的 nowadays, religious belief is 在现在 宗教信仰 turned into a kind of consumption, 被转为了一种消费 a kind of commodity fetishism. 一种商品拜物教 The society converge on something all the time, 这个社会始终都会汇集到什么东西上 it will always find a carrier. 它始终会找到一个载体
I think the commodity as a carrier is gradually disintegrating. 商品这个载体 我觉得是在逐步瓦解中 Yeah, you have to define it yourself. 对 你需要自己去定义这个东西 We all share the human traits, 我们都有着人的共性 but we are ultimately different. 可是本质上来说我们是不同的 But it can create a universal sense of connection 但是它可以通过某种形式 by taking some form. 形成一种普世的连接感 A kind of feeling that Bataille described 有一种 巴塔耶说的 as the feeling of water dissolve into water. 水融于水的感觉
It's like going back to the mother nature. 像是回到了自然母体之中 It can be said that the previous religions were all in a false form, 可以说 之前的宗教都是通过一种虚假的形式 by restricting you it gives you a preconceived framework. 通过限制你 给你一种已经设好的框架体系 Ultimately, it's a shortcut. 最终来说 它是一个捷径 I think it must not be a purely personal thing. 我觉得这个一定不是一个纯个人的东西 I don't buy it at all when you say that 这个 信仰只能是个人去找到的 true belief can only be built and 某种你自己的信仰 found by individual. 这个我完全不相信
I think there must be something that is universal itself, 我觉得他一定是 什么东西 就是有共通性 not that there are different expressions and 而不是 他们都不一样 there's universality between them. 但他们之间有共通性 If you say that individuals can be their own religion, 如果你说个人可以是自己的宗教 there is no different than saying 我觉得这个跟你说所有东西都是艺术 everything is art, 没有两样 It also means that nothing is art. 它也代表着没有东西是艺术 No, like I said 不 就像我说的 It requires the artist to claim, 它需要艺术家的指认 that this is art. 说它是艺术 This thing is just a cup 这个东西只是一个杯子 or just a block of material. 或者只是一块物质
But until I claim it, 但是如果我指认了它 It's art. 它就是艺术 So you were basically saying 所以你刚才基本在说 Is there an essence or? 这里有一个本质还是？ I don't know. Just when I'm thinking about the world's development 我不知道 我只是从我自己 包括想这个世界 of faith from my perspective, 之后在信仰方面的发展 I have these feelings. 给我的一些感觉 Ok that's very helpful... 你说的可真具体
I think your idea is fundamentally 我觉得你这个说到底也只是一个 based on the influence of individualism. 基于个人主义的影响 It makes sense. 它非常的合理 During our era, 你在现在这个时代 it makes perfect sense to 你去这样解读信仰的话 elaborate faith in your way. 它非常有道理
Everyone can agree with you, 每个人都可以同意你的说法 yet few dare to affirm faith. 而很少有人可以去肯定信仰 So this is a time when faith is disappearing. 所以说这是一个信仰在消失的时代 When the disappearance is so present that everyone can have their own beliefs, 当你消失成了每个人都可以有自己的信仰 There will be no faith. 也就没有信仰了 No, that I'm really inclined with Nietzsche, 不是 我真的倾向于尼采的 that you really... 就是你真的 in 《On the Genealogy of Morals》 他在 道德的谱系 The chapter on nihilism, he says 讲虚无主义的那一章 他说 man would rather will nothingness 欲求空无 than not will 好过没有欲求 in here he doesn't praise nihilism. 所以他并不赞扬虚无主义
He's saying, the will to nothingness 而是在说 你在欲求虚无的时候 is nonetheless a will. 还是一种欲求 This is something that can be summarized 这个东西就是可以去总结 into a larger trend of The Times, 一个大的时代潮流 which is nothingness. 就是 虚无 It is the breaking of all spirits. 是所有的精神的破灭
A characteristic of modern man. 一种现代人的特征 Then there is a process of... 这里有一个 This thing is so stupid. How can you be a philosophy teacher... 这个东西太傻逼了 怎么能有人想当哲学老师 so stupid 太傻逼了 When you get it, you don't wanna say it 当你明白了 你就不想说了 But I think it's necessary to express. 但是我觉得是要表达的啊 I think it's very easy 我觉得非常容易 to not say it, 不说出来是非常简单的 and not to express. 不去表达是非常简单的 I think although sometimes when things are 我觉得尽管有些东西用语言说出来 put into words, it gets reduced, 它就没有那么强了 It loses its profoundness, 它可能就没有那个深度了 but we can always describe this thing. 但是你也可以去描述这个东西
We have to try to describe it, 我觉得要试图去描述它 try to express it, 要试图去表达它 try to express it in all ways. 要试图用各种方式去表达它 nonetheless 不管怎么样 I think I'll choose the most penetrating approach 我觉得我会选择最有穿透性的方式 Other times I'll remain silence 其他时候我沉默就好了 All valuable thoughts 所有有价值的思想 and greatness of humanity and art, 和人类 包括伟大的艺术 are all rooted in pessimism. 都根植于悲观 Desperate places are often 绝望的地方往往是 the beginning of hope. 希望的开始 That requires an individual, 这里必须有一个个体 what Nietzsche refers as "superman", 尼采指的 "超人"的存在 being completely aware of nothingness, 在完全对虚无有意识的情况下 aware of the human condition. 对人类的境遇有意识 Before the emergence of "superman", 所以当一个"超人" there must be 在他出现之前 a great moral collapse. 必然是一个大的道德崩坏 It's a change of posture. 这是一种姿态的变化
It must come from an active choice, 它必须来自一种主动的选择 an active affirmation. 主动的肯定 Only in this way can one bring out one's humanity. 只有这样才能把自身的人性带出来 to act, to do. 还是要去行动 I don't think faith is that much linked to humanity. 我觉得信仰不是属于人性的范畴 It should be beyond humanity, 应该是超出人 beyond this physical world. 超出物质世界的
The point is that there is no beyond. 关键就在 没有超越 We are in this world, 你就是在这个世界 totally and completely in this world. 完完全全的在这个世界 Nothing you can imagine could be more real 你能想象到的所有东西 都不能更真 My feeling to the world is that, 我对这个世界有这样一种感觉 there is something beyond the depth of art and everything. 有什么东西是超过了艺术的深度的 I don't know what it is, so I classify it as faith. 我也不知道这是个什么东西 所以我把他归类为信仰 I think everything you said 我会觉得你说的所有 is still in the realm of philosophy, art, and humanity. 都仍然在艺术哲学人性的领域里
No. 不对 I think you should read some 我觉得你应该读一读 Deleuze, Bergson stuff 德勒兹 柏格森的东西 you should get out from this dualist logic. 你要脱离这种二元论思维 These regions we talk about, 它不是一个线性的 闭性的环 It's not a linear closed ring. 在我们谈论这些东西的时候 Your thoughts are always this kind of circular linear thing 你的想法总是这种 圆环 线性的东西 It's just so boring, 你的想法都太无趣了 I'm stifled. 这种东西给我一种窒息感 There is no line called "this is art" 没有一条线说 这个是艺术 "This is philosophy" 这个是哲学 When I said philosophy, art, and humanity, 我刚刚说的 艺术哲学人性 I didn't mean to articulate three blocks. 我不是说了三个块儿 These three words are tautologies to me. 这三个词对我来说是同义反复
No they are not tautologies. 不 它们不是同义反复 When I say them, I mean the same thing. 就是 我说它们的时候我要表达的是一个东西 I don't think it's possible to express what I mean 但我觉得单独说一个词没有办法完整的 by saying one word, 表达我想说的东西 so I said three words, 所以我说了三个词 but all three words point to the same thing. 但这三个词是指向同一个东西的 I didn't raise a clear division of 而不是我把它们清晰的划分为 three areas, 三个领域 they are to articulate as a whole. 然后我来跟你讲这三个领域 Okey. 好吧 So you help me understand you first. 那你先帮我理解你想讲什么
What are you trying to say? 你想说的是什么 All right. 好吧 This is a blank piece of paper 这一张空白纸 It is all that exists in this world. 它是这个世界 所有存在 As I'm looking at this piece of paper, 我现在看着这张纸 I feel like it's not enough. 它不能就只有这张纸 I can't fully understand it just by this piece of paper. 我觉得只给我这张纸我没有办法完全理解它
Oh, so the problem is you're too dumb? 哦 答案是你太笨了 It could be that 它可能是一个 I might need to understand this paper through this book 我可能要通过这个本子来看这张纸 That's what I was saying. 这就是我说的啊 What you said about art and philosophy is very rigid. 你说的艺术和哲学非常死板 The paper you're talking about 你说的这张纸 It's the life. 它是一个生活
Professor, I want to speak! 老师我要发言 The paper I was referring contains all those things you're talking about. 我指的这张纸包括了你说的所有那些东西 It is not that this paper represents everyday life, 并不是说这张纸仅代表日常生活 and philosophy or whatever is this book. 然后哲学什么的是这本书 The means to get there, 到达这些的工具 the bridge, is art. 的桥梁 是艺术 But I think there's a tendency to what you're saying, 但是我觉得你说的有一种倾向 that these things can reach faith. 在于这些东西是可以到达信仰的 I think there's a distinction here. 我觉得这里是有区分的
They should not be lumped together. 它们不能被混为一谈 Artistic aesthetics or the depth that you can reach, 艺术美学 或者你能到达的深度 the depth of thoughts, 思想上的深度 can't take the place of faith. 并不能代替信仰的地位 But I didn't have a clear direction on what it is. 但是我并没有一个明确的方向 It's just my feeling. 这只是我的感觉 if you can feel it, it is part of humanity. 如果你能感受到的话 那它就是人性的
Otherwise you can't feel it. 否则你是不能感受到的 And this feeling 而这个感觉 is directly linked with art. 是跟艺术直接相连的 It must be felt. 肯定是要感受到的
We won't be talking about it here 你不能感受到的话 这里就不会有一个问题 if we can't feel it. 这个东西我们也不会在谈论它 When I think about faith, 我在想信仰的时候 all the things that I have felt and seen 所有现有的 我感受过的 看到过的东西 don't present a state of faith to me. 都不能对我呈现出一个信仰的状态 There I feel the absence of faith. 所以我感受到了信仰的空缺 I think faith is a firm belief. 我觉得信仰是一个坚定的东西
Everyone should believe in it if it's true. 我会觉得 每个人都应该信 I wouldn't say that "I believe this, 我不会觉得 我信这个 You can believe whatever you want" 你可以相信别的 That is not faith. 这个就不叫信仰 You can certainly have that feeling. 你当然可以有这种感觉
I think if I had to say "Yes" 我觉得 如果我要说是 Then everyone has to say "Yes". 那每个人都要说是 It can't be that when I say "Yes", 不能我想说是 You can say whatever you want. 你想说什么都可以 I think that's true belief, 我觉得这才是真正的相信 otherwise how can I say this is my faith. 不然我怎么能说这是我的信仰
It's your belief. 这是你的信仰 This is no longer a matter of faith, 这不再是一个信仰问题 more like about human connection 而是说 人和人的关系里 –How much men are united 有多少是共通的 Is it possible for others to believe what you believe. 他人可能相信你相信的东西吗 When you think this thing is really powerful. 你觉得这个东西非常强大的时候 you think:"if I am so certain, 你觉得 如果你这么确定 then everybody should feel that way, 那么所有人都该有这个感觉 everyone should believe it." 所有人都应该相信 I think that's the quality of faith. 我觉得这个就是信仰的特质
Just like David Lynch, 就像林奇 He deeply believed in his Transcendental Meditation program, 他就坚信他那一套玄学 so he has to keep preaching about it. 所以他就要一直去宣扬这个东西 If you don't even have the need to preach it to everybody, 如果你都没有把它宣扬给所有人的需求 then it's not your belief. 那这也不是你的信仰 This is not the same. 这不一样 Lynch can only express it in artistic terms. 林奇只能用艺术的口吻来表达 His speech can be a kind of art, 他的言语可以是一种艺术 but I don't think it's as impressive as his works. 可以我觉得没有他的作品那么震撼
That's why you have to make a good work, 这就是为什么你要做出好的作品 because that work can really speak out. 一个好的作品是有声音的 It can really reach 它能够真正到达 the unspeakable that you were talking about. 你说的信仰 不可言说之物 So what you're saying is, 所以你在说的是 one should not be silent, 人不应该沉默 one should express. 他应该去表达 I think as long as you have one word, 我觉得只要你有 一个词 or one work, 或者一个作品 that can represent a whole dimension of 能够撑起一整个纬度 the peak of what one wants to say and express, 能够表达你所能表达的极致 that is enough. 我觉得就够了
No, I think you can't deny that 不 我觉得你不能否认 diversity can also be penetrating. 多样性也具有穿透力 You are like 你是这种 "better to remain silent in one's whole life, 最好终其一生都是沉默 and then one word is said, and this word is just 然后说了一句话 这句话就 (explosion)" （爆炸） That's your tendency 这是你的倾向 But my tendency is 可是我的倾向是 i wanna have all these mumbling throughout my whole life 我想终其一生有无尽的絮语 And viewing as a whole they penetrate. 然后作为一个整体 它具有穿透性 There's a difference here. 这里是有区别的 So the mumbling you are describing, 所以你说的喃喃自语 It needs a moment for it to be different. 它需要一个瞬间 去变得不同 Silence would be that point here. 在这里 沉默会是那一点 You see, when you watch something. 你看 在你看一个东西的时候
Like when I watch Kubrick('s films), 比如我看库布里克的时候 I would wish him to have done only his best pieces. 我会希望他只做了那一个最好的作品 I think if you make a good work , 我觉得如果你做出了好的作品 then the past works become more important. 那么过去的东西反而变得更加的重要 I think it's all a sense of becoming. 我觉得这都是一种生成
If based on what you said, 如果基于你所说的 if one day you made your best work, 如果你做出了你最好的作品 you are ready to kill yourself. 你就可以自杀了 There's nothing worth living anymore. 没有东西值得你活着了 I don't think that's good. 我不觉得这是好的 Essentially what I was thinking yesterday 本质上来说 我昨天在想的 was "Why not commit suicide". 就是为什么不去自杀 Yes, that's what Camus wrote in 《The Myth of Sisyphus》, 对啊 那就是加缪 在 西西弗神话 里的 the first sentence. 第一句话 I think any discussion is superficial to some extent. 我觉得任何讨论在某种程度上都是肤浅的
It has no way of entering into the actuality of being, 它没有办法进入到真正的存在中 unless the discussion itself is a becoming, 除非你这个讨论它本身就是一个 an Art Processing. 艺术生成
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