What Happens When a Tech CEO Tells It Like It Is? Glen Davis, does just that

What Happens When a Tech CEO Tells It Like It Is? Glen Davis, does just that

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welcome to The Tech Panel 1 2 3 4  the podcast where Tech minds Meet  Oh hey, before we get started today don't forget  to subscribe and ring that bell.   Welcome to The Tech Panel, I'm your host James Arvin and I'm  Sarah Bowers and this is the podcast where we   dive into the cutting edge ideas, innovations  and technologies transforming Industries each   week we're going to sit down with the leaders  and disruptors at the forefront of these changes   to hear their stories explore their vision and  uncover the challenges they're solving in real   time and today we're joined by a guest who's not  just scaling companies he's redefining Industries   he's built and led many businesses turning vision  into action and action into million dollar success   stories. He's a fast-paced innovator who knows  how to find opportunity, harness it and scale   it to new heights but what drives someone with  such relentless ambition, what lessons come from   building success after success and where does he  see Tech and people falling short? Let's find out   this is The Tech Panel. Hi Glen welcome to the  show thank you for joining us today in person. 

Thanks for having me guys. Firstly before we get  into the nitty-gritty can you tell us a little   bit about your background and how you got to where  you are today at the helm of Smoothlink and the   other companies? Yeah I can, so Smoothlink and  the companies that have run after it I guess are   about the 28th company that I've I've run um  I started off, I guess like everyone does, uh   when you first get your car and doing a mowing  round and trailer and all that sort of stuff   I've done a whole bunch of things sold businesses  bought businesses um I guess the the reason I got   into this is because I was into digital marketing  and have a digital marketing company um a a good   friend of mine came to me who was in construction  he just bought a software uh called Procore that's   a construction project management software, um and  he had a problem because he needed to integrate   the financials of Procore to uh his ERP system  Xero which is a pretty big Australian, primarily   Australian & New Zealand uh accounting software, um  and so I went to one of the guys who worked for   me who was a who was a um a developer at the time  backend developer and asked him if he could build   it we built that solution um and the reason they  didn't go with it effectively is there was there   was only one other solution in the Market at the  time um and those guys were pretty arrogant to   my friend who owned a construction company and  that's kind of how came our way we basically   built the solution I um I sold out of that digital  marketing business bought into and actually bought   the the developer on board and made him the CTO  of the company um and he's also an owner of that   company now um and we've gone into many other  Ventures together now so we pretty much acquire   businesses purchase businesses start do other  startups and um Smoothlink itself uh the main   company that we kind of started together is uh  as now all around the world um throughout Namer and um throughout Europe and starting to get into  Saudi Arabia as well. Amazing tell me a little bit   more about Smoothlink when you built it how long  did it take to build like was Procore you know   impressed with with the speed in which you could  just build this yeah I mean it was at the time I   mean we didn't intend to build it to be what it  is today um it was it was originally we'd done   other things for like connectors with Simpro um just  for backend website sort of things um so it wasn't   it was originally supposed to be just another one  of those um a oneoff sort of thing we did um the   AE uh the Account Executive for Procore was  the one that kind of helped us through building it   um and my my good friend his construction  company's uh CFO so he worked with our developer   and you know probably took them was probably  developed over sort of a 12 Month period to   get it down to a a fine art um but what actually  happened is we once we had that all set up for   them uh the a Procore came back to us and said hey  look your your products really really good it's   more stable and reliable than the one we sell in  the market um would you guys like to commercialize   it and sell it to other other people and at the  time we were like maybe you know um so yeah that's   pretty much where it started we ask them how many  clients they push our way and kind of the rest of   History amazing and how many have you got at the  moment clientwise it's still growing obviously   yeah so I think the last count um with you know  they Procore on their Marketplace look   at it as installs and Simpro and HubSpot and  some other people that we build to do you know   measure measure things differently but there's  in excess of 1600 in uh installs within a year   or so uh no no that's over the last sort of four  years four years yeah but uh we're certainly the   market leaders that space amazing when we look at  1600 I know some people may think of that as like   oh it's it's only 1600 there's probably tens of  thousands of customers out there but 1600 is a   significant share of the construction Market space  especially your primary focus began in Australia   I did and you're working in other markets  abroad so yeah if we probably would it be safe   assume probably 2/3 of that or 3/4 of that and was  Australian based um yeah probably I mean at the   moment we're probably running at about a 60/40 40%  of our revenues coming out of APAC and the rest   of it's around the world right so that also puts  this in a different light right so if it's 60 40   60 in Australia 40 in uh 40 in Australia probably  we do Australia, we do more overseas than wow okay   so yeah it's still a big share of the construction  Market space like there's not tens of of thousands   of construction companies over here and you know  you only need a few of these to make a pretty big   dent uh and then now you're expanding over into  the US where this is where things can really go   crazy if you really start to shake things up over  there for procore side of things yeah um what has   been the strategy how have you uh thought or  what made you think we're ready to move into   the US market um I think for us we kind of got to  a point where we were pretty comfortable I mean U   myself the other owner the company sort of got to  a you know we went through the hi yards like every   business does where you you can't afford to pay  for anything um didn't take a wage for a couple of   years all that sort of thing um but we got we kind  of got to a point where it was either it's either   we just stay where we are and be comfortable and  do our thing or um you know we we go Global and   you know we you know kind of made the decision  I said to him hey look are you willing to do   this and he was like yep I'm in, all in and you  know we we sort of put a big focus on going global   with the business obviously all this boils down  to right people at the right time uh what gave   you the confidence in knowing that you are ready  from an australian-based company to move into that   side what was the process of getting all of your  ducks in a row and making sure the people were   ready to scale in the US um look a lot of people  ask us that all the time and and I mean the first   thing I probably mention is our our business is  a bit different uh which I found out over time   that that you know we don't take any investment  so everything's bootstrapped the whole business   even to this point um so there's a lot of interest  in you know VCS and people trying to get into our   business because it is a very a good company and  a fast growing company we we sort of grow anywhere   from 147 to 167% year on-ear and we've constantly  done that um but I guess the hard part the hardest   part for us was how do we fund it um so we had to  fund it off the back of the APAC sales and then   had to stretch our team so um the the biggest  thing was the team that we had at the time uh   were were willing to go on the adventure with us  so you know we had we had one of the guys who were   trying to get somebody into the into Canada and  you know within two weeks he was up and going and   off he went and um you know we've we've had we we  had some strategic play in that where we you know   we we strategically uh placed ourselves as a as a  uh a good option for a couple of employees uh from   Procore and and experienced people that we could  leverage that overseas um and get that growth as   well but it was certainly uh it was certainly  a bit of a a throw at the wall and see how what   sticks but you know that the year prior to us  going global um Malo my business partner and   myself pretty much ran the whole clock so that's  that's how we did it without money we we literally   did a year of um answering the phones you know I  was the sales guy and he was The Tech Guy at the   time so you know for the first for the first 12  months of going overseas we'd do our Australian   or do our New Zealand business our clients we'd  answer the phone to them three hours later we were   in the Australian Market we'd work the day here  then we'd work into afternoon go home for dinner   and then we'd be on calls with the UK um and then  they'd wrap up and we'd be on calls with the US   and Canada through the night and then start again  early at you know 5: in the morning again so you   know we probably a year where both of us did you  know very very broken sleep for 12 months and and   a lot of people always ask me how did you do it  but at the end of the day it was just you know I   don't know if you call it stupidity or or what  but we didn't have the money to hire people so   we just did it ourselves and we're lucky enough to  then bring more people on to support that uh from   our pack team so speaking of you know I think we  come from similar backgrounds we we didn't start   in Tech I think you had a construction background  as well is that correct no no so I I came from uh   the steel industry I work for um company called  Commercial Metal Company CMC based out of the US   right uh and then they they acquired our company  in Australia so yeah so I did about 15 years from   the ground up running a machine all the way up  into a national title that's it yeah so you're   coming from a background like I think sort of  similar to me yeah yours more manufacturing   mine construction um and we've moved into this  Tech space very different I'm sure it would have   been been different for you it's different for  me um where you know in construction as I'm sure   it is in steel space as well the bottom line is  always what matters I feel like the company needs   to survive and we've now moved into this sort of  tech space where it feels like they always sort   of you know preach that it's all about the people  we need to be focusing on the people if you just   invest into the people everything else will follow  um but at the end of the day isn't the company   survival the main priority here do you feel you're  having competing interests here trying to follow   the tech Vibe versus putting the most focus into  the business yeah absolutely I mean yeah look I   I mean my background coming from manufacturing and  you know managing you know blue collar workers and   and you know it was very very different to what  we're doing in the sou space right but um you   know look I I think the industry is a bit shot too  like it you know there's there's there's lots of   glorified people in this space that think they're  much better than they are and you know they they   expect things to to come to them I think maybe  it's the world just in general but um you know   everyone wants something for nothing without  putting in the hard yards um I'd probably you   know I I I wrote this down the other day and I  was I was talking to one of my team about it but   it's almost like for me people want to work for a  great company and they see tech companies as great   companies right um because it's sexy but it's  not really it's just a it's just another business   um but but at the end of the day I mean you know  people want to work for a great company but you   can't work for a great company if you're not  a great employee so you know I'd probably tell   everybody you know that's listening to this or  anyone that's working for a company you know if   you're not operating at the highest level as  an employee then you probably need to check   yourself because you're not going to work  for a great company because a great company   can't be sustainable and we've seen this time  and time again through big companies you know   um you know the sales forces of the world and  and big companies that go out on this limb and   try to do what you know what the world expects  them to do and Society expects them to do and   they end up almost taking their companies over  it and you know it really comes down to for me   it really comes down to the business comes first  and if the business survives then everybody else   flourishes from that right so if everyone  has that same mentality and then you look   at the business it's really about the client  so um I I I I really I really just think that   people have it wrong you know people just think  that um you know they can take from a business   and you know especially a company like ours we  don't have deep pocket so it's really really hard   for us to we got to make sure that we've always  got the right people on board and people that are   passionate about going where they're going and  and want to work for a great company very honest   realistic approach I guess that it is the business  if the business doesn't survive the employee won't   have a job you know that's pretty simple but yeah  how do you I guess keep your employees motivated   how do you reward greatness and what what is a  great employee to you I think um you know I I   I talk with people about this all the time and  it's probably a little bit it can be taken the   wrong way but I mean for me personally um I always  say to everybody you know flexibility comes from   reliability so you know if you prove to me that  you're reliable not just in turning up on time   but you know the little things right it's it's as  a business you can't scale if you can't rely on r   on your people and a good example of that is you  know we talked about going global before I mean   were the key players in getting us Global picked  up their life and moved within a week to two weeks   you know um so we had we had the first guy that  did that in Canada and then we had one of our guys   that was based out of out of London in our London  office coming back to Australia and um one of our   our team in Australia she just picked up her her  whole life and and and took off to build a team   over there for us so they've got that willingness  you know well yeah so you know like for us we   couldn't we couldn't be here where we are today  if we didn't have people like that so that to me   is Success you know and and those people will you  know reap the rewards of the business and how it   goes and I guess the way I I deliver that is very  individually so I don't I'm not a big believer in   you know a reward for everybody and everyone gets  equal because at the end of the day reality is is   everyone doesn't put in equal so um it comes back  to that whole thing like if you want to work for a   great company you be need to be a great employee  yeah um you know and unfortunately you call it   employee or team member or whatever you know fluff  you want to put around the word of it but like at   the end of the day it's it's a group of people  trying to achieve the same thing um and they and   everyone needs to be passionate about it and if  you're not passionate about it then don't don't do   it that's the one thing find your place you know  I guess even if you're interviewing you can sort   of see who has those spark who has that passion if  you've got a passion and you're you're willing and   you're you know a hard worker you can kind of you  can you can take on the the roles you can learn   yeah you know and I think that's like the big  big thing that I find with my industry particular   you've got to have that passion and that drive  and that willingness and then you could pick up   you know the the the individual skills that you  might not have AB in the job with with that those   people that you said are are those you those great  employees in your eyes and you do reward them is   that monetary reward is that opportunities is  that how do you how do you do that I I mean a   whole business is based on opportunity so we  we have a we have a spin-off company called   opportunity Empire um and and that came about  because you know I really want to try and create   a company that people can't people are drawn to so  you come here not to work you come here to achieve   your personal goals and whatever that may be right  so for some people that's I want to buy my first   car or some people it's I want to take a family  holiday or it's I want to buy my first house and   for us I mean we're investors just like you are  and you know we invest in property and factories   and and all those sort of and business and and  all those sort of things so you know we've got   got we've got great Brokers and great lawyers and  and everybody you could possibly need so you know   for for me one of our you know it actually really  hurt me that I heard two of our employees bought   a house and they went through all the pain that  you go through buying a house and I was like you   know like if you if I had have known I could have  I could have hooked you up with a whole bunch of   people that would have looked after you right  so and that's really what that that's to me is   where where business should be the community it  should really be about like where do you want to   go and not not the wanky stuff right corporate  does where they're like hey know come where do   you want to be in five years your leadership plan  all that sort of thing yeah it's more it's more   real yeah what people really want to do and some  people some people everyone's dreams different   right and everyone's everyone everyone's different  but um you know that that's where the opportunity   Empire really came out of it so we've we've got  a spin-off company that looks after all of our   companies and there's a team that sits within  that um we've got legal Finance um marketing   the whole work so it's really around anybody um  who wants to do something bigger with their life   but doesn't know how cuz it CU it is a a bumpy  road um you know that that that's what we do we   offer that it's either investing in money or  it's investing in resources or it's investing   in you know our IP or expertise um so yeah so so  for example if I was one of your employees and I   wanted to um oh you gave the example of buying a  house but let's say I wanted to start a a small   uh you know a small business on my own on my own  time I could say hey Glenn you know this is one   of my goals for this year or the next five years  can you help me reach that and opportunity Empire   would kind of give me the resources and you'd say  chat to my lawyers chat to me here I will do some   mentoring sessions I can I can coach you on how  to start the small business give you my my time   and and expertise you know giving back in that way  yeah exactly that's great but not just employees   so where it's it's really around like I found a  long time ago like people would everyone comes to   me like a lot of people come to me and they're  like hey I want to run a business can you help   me and I found out really really oh probably not  really really quickly stupidly it took me a long   time to realize that not everyone's made equal  and some people want something but it's kind of   like what we said before there's you got to have  a certain drive to want something right and it's   that passion it's like you know if you want to  start a business then that's great but I can't be   the guy that wakes up at 5 a.m for you and re you  know is putting fliers on cars for you and doing   all the all the [ __ ] stuff that You' got to do  to get yourself off the ground right that needs to   be you and and if it's going to be me then it's  not going to work so you know it's opportunity   Empires really around creating an opportunity for  people that really have a desire to do something   um and we're we're kind of doing that off this  off the spin of our our teams and other people so   it's not just our teams it's friends and family  but you know unfortunately for people that come   to work and then they do a job and you know some  people are looking for a community in the business   some people are individuals and they want to  do their own thing but um you know like you   know if I was I just look back the way I used to  do things and when I first bought my first house   nobody in the company knew I was trying to buy a  house and it was hard you know you you go see a   broker or something and they rip you off and then  somebody out the bit peston building rips you off   and then Council rips you off and you know there's  a million things you've got to you know navigate   through and then you go have a family and then  you're getting married and blah blah blah so the   the idea of for me is really creating a a company  or a a a I wouldn't even call it a company a maybe   an ecosystem an ecosystem of people that want to  come here because they they they come and work   here because they want to do something with  their personal life and that might be and at   the end of the day that might be hey look I want  to buy a house and then I want to have a kid and   it's like okay how do we how do how do we help you  get there I don't need your help okay yeah but you   know maybe maybe here if you need it two years  if you need it yeah exact yeah so and and and   that's the hard part so yeah opportunity Empires  really around offering whatever it is they need   whatever the Gap is that they have on the on the  path that they plan this is a very different take   on employee benefits that people don't really take  into consideration you know when people go to tech   companies what they do is they go you know what  benefits do they have and they're like you can   get discount at like this or this and it's like oh  great I got to buy stuff that's that's my benefit   that I get 5% off and you're essentially saying  like look if you want to buy a home we've got like   people here that have gone through the process  will lean in will help you out and we also know   the builders do you want to renovate when you  build it we've got the people that you probably   want to talk that's real benefit that I people  think absolutely actually want to take advantage   of as you you touched up before that Community  sort of you know you've got it takes a village   to you know raise a kid and do a lot of things  and it's like the business Village almost yeah   the hard part I guess the hard part for us is  really trying to get everyone in the team to   understand that that you have a whole team behind  you to get to where you want to goh so you know   like that that's a challenge in itself I guess I  love that because every business i' every company   I've worked for you know if if you sit down once  a year or every six months to do your plans it's   never about your personal goals it's always about  your career goals and it's almost like this is an   opportunity to only chat about your career goals  where do you want to be but it's like well you   know what career and life is is is you know  blending more and more these days like more   people are putting that emphasis on the balance  The elusive balance or you know intertwining both   career and yeah lifestyle so it makes perfect  sense that you're bringing that into yeah yeah   and I mean even from a performance point of  view like big companies they do performance   reviews and it's all very wanky and whatever  but you know for me a performance review and   we've got some coming up but it really for me it's  around you know are you achieving your goal and   if they're like well no you're letting yourself  and me down like you know because my goal is to   grow the business to you know we want to try and  get it to $5 billion in five years right so are   people helping you know are you helping us get to  that path and then are we helping you get to your   goal and and their goal you know you hopefully  their goal sits within my goal um because then   I can achieve I can help them achieve right but um  but you know like if if I'm not helping them or if   they're not helping themselves get to their goal  then they're not helping me get to my goal right   so that's that's a performance review in my eyes  yeah it it's that simple it's interesting I've   I've gone through quite a few performance reviews  and that's definitely not the take that most tech   companies are familiar with today it's always you  know how do you feel about where you are today in   life and where do you feel you're going to be  in 5 years time and it's it's always again I   think this comes just from the background where  I'm from you know like performance reviews are   usually performance-based they're not really like  how do you feel about the world today or the way   you've you're operating in it it's very much like  what is happening right now with you where do you   think you can be performance-wise in 3 months  or a year's time what steps are you taking to   get there and measuring you along that way and if  there's a dip providing you guidance to make sure   we get you back on track so there's no slip in  you and you know and uh your life cycle with the   business but speaking of difficulty you know um  what what is the hardest decision that you think   you've had to make while managing a business and  how do you think that has shaped the way you're   managing a company today um I don't really know  to be honest if I I think I mean there's there's   there's lots of hard decisions I I don't think  business is a series of hard decisions yeah yeah   I mean you know if if um if I'm truly honest  about it the hardest decision I've had to make   is um not spending time with my family yep so  that's probably that's probably the biggest you   know business unfortunately you know and some  people have this right and and and you know I   do what everyone else does and listen to podcasts  and follow people and you know it's almost like   an Instagram of these guys that like yeah the  perfect we're on a boat and you know I work four   hours a day and Tim Ferris you know 4 Hour Work  week and you know all that all that kind of crap   is not reality if you're you know you're trying  to run the business to to scale the business to   that point um so you know unfortunately you know  like something always gives right it's it's either   your health or it's the business or it's you  know family or whatever and you know kudos to   the guys that have got that right um and I but  I feel like that's the journey is is trying to   get to that point and that's probably for everyone  right oh go yeah it's it's trying to find that   that balance but I don't actually think there is  a balance I'm like balance I I always get balance   in better comments because I don't understand that  word no neither do I and and it's it like for me   for me at the point where're at right now is you  know everything suffers like I you know I probably   sleep three hours a night um because even when I'm  awake I'm thinking about the other businesses or   what we could do or you know cash flow in one of  our other businesses or you know someone's got   a problem and I'm trying to fix it or you know  there there's always something but um you know   yeah that's that's probably the toughest decision  in business is having to step away from my family   and making them pay the price I mean every you  know new business owner has to put in the that   that hard yards and that drive and be like 120  150% in it you've done 28 businesses you've got   multiple at the moment like how how do you focus  your time or energy you don't you just scatter gun   no I I mean I am a bit of a scattergun um I I I  do what other people do I try to surround myself   with people that are balanced um because I'm  probably not as balanced as I probably should   be um but you know look I I mean at the end of the  day it's it's it's a really around trying to put   people in place that are passionate about doing  what they're doing and hopefully they're they're   driving in a way um where I become more of a  mentor to those those guys so you know I mean   look people like elong muskin people do it right  so you should probably get him on the show by the   way um but you know like I mean those guys do it  and you know I don't have a private jet yet to   save time but um but really I guess that's that's  probably it in my mind it's really around trying   to become more of a mentor for people and and  and the leaders in the business so I can help   them get to where they need to be yeah I think  yeah I guess you know you you've got your own   business goals and you're driven for that but  that other side of it where it sounds like you   really you know do put value on mentoring and  and passing your knowledge on I think that's   that's where that value that payoff comes for  you I guess is that you might not be spending   as much time with your kids but you're giving  back to society and you're giving back to your   employees by you know feeling like there's value  there and it's worth it yeah absolutely yeah yeah   look I think for me that's um you know I I always  help people so and and to my detriment a lot of   the time as well right so um you know but but I  always just want people to do well and be able to   their goals and and and that's where opportunity  empire did come from as well so there's a guy uh   that I follow called Dan Martell I don't know if  you know Dan Martell or not um he's based out of   Colona in in Canada and I had my EA at the time  try to try he does a hike every Tuesday with a   bunch of Founders SAS Founders and I I had my EA  um book in and and get a spot for me to do the   hike so I flew over there with my wife went and  did this hike hiked up the hill with these guys   and and I thought I was going to get something  magical out of you know trying to get something   out of him he's got $100 million AR business you  know he's got a few of them I think um and and   what I found when I was there is there's 40 guys  hiking this hill and you know everyone once they   found out what I did and how many things I was in  I ended up talking to people and mentoring people   up the hill and then I got to the top and I didn't  get to chat to him and he was like oh we're gonna   catch up and I was like yeah yeah and then on  the way down I was chatting to people and then   you know this guy runs on a on a clock like  on a dime like he's got he literally does a   hike with a timekeeper so you know this guy's  like ah time's up and he's like I see guys and   I found myself there for for another hour and a  half with a whole bunch of people um but when I   looked around on that hike I noticed there was a  big circle around him because everyone was there   for him but then there was a small circle around  me and I was I was absolutely off that whole trip   because I I was like God damn it flew all the way  over here didn't get to do it I was puffed out and   cooked up the hill because I'm not fit enough  and then and then I you know I kind of winged   my wife our whole trip through Canada and um when  I got back I realized that um you know probably   my purpose is to help people and that's where  opportunity Empire came and so I've decided to   do that and that's been my drive the whole time is  just helping people yeah and you it's just a great   lesson in life that you have this expectation  of one thing physically hiking up a hill getting   that it doesn't work out but you learned all these  other things along the way and you then use that   to create another business and do something else  absolutely um with those 28 businesses that you've   got you know obviously you had there's about eight  active at the moment I think when do you know when   to like tap out when do you know when to start  the next one is it you know and and then scaling   as well I want to talk about that you know when do  you know when to scale when to pull back yeah I I   think for me like like I'm pretty good at a few  things and and although the businesses that we   have are vastly different they all have an element  in it that I know know what I'm doing um so I only   go into things that I know what I'm doing in I  don't I don't go into things I don't have a clue   about um so you know I guess for me it's really  around trying to trying to create opportunity   for myself and other people at the same time but  um I I guess the the biggest thing is especially   in the software space and and and around SAS I got  really pissed off because there's not really good   software out there and everyone's promoting their  software was being great um and and I can truly   put my hand on my heart and and say that you  know uh my business partner and the CTO of our   companies and he's in multiple companies with me  as well you know he's by far you know he's almost   like the Rainman I joke about the Rainman Tech you  know like he he can count how many sticks dropped   on the ground or whatever but um he he's he's also  he's also really really dedicated he can do front   end and back end um and he puts in probably more  hours than anyone in the business alone right but   um I guess out of that we have really really good  software and and everything comes back to us the   market tells us that uh our clients tell us that  and for me it really frustrates me that there's   really shitty software out there and people take a  lot of money then they you know they they they get   seed money investment money and then they use  other people's money to build shitty software   until they get it right and then and then they get  it right and then they start paying back people   right um and that that really frust frustrates me  so so when I get frustrated like that I usually   start another company and and try to create  a solution out of it so that's that's pretty   much where theyve all come from yeah just that  frustration that need for like this doesn't work   I'm going to build it better and I want I want to  do that yeah I and I think I think for most yeah I   dare say that most Founders out there have founded  their company out of a problem they've had I would   I would dare say most of them yeah um you know  because that's that's usually what happens right   you get frustrated you can't find the solution  to the problem you have and you know if you've   got the means to be able to build it then might  as well just go build it when I was going to say   when is that backfired that would have backfired  a few times at all or when has scaling backfired   like you know is there a point where you go  we just leave it where it is it's doing well   but there's always seems to be this glorified I  guess idea of you've got to scale up you got to   get bigger you got to scale scale it's like it  could be just be perfect where it is like yeah I   don't I don't think anything's perfect where it is  um you know maybe I'm wrong but I think if you uh   you know I know Tony Robbins says that if you're  not you know if you're not moving forward you're   dying right so that's me my kind of philosophy  but I think we're both the sort of people that   are always moving driving moving well I think  you've got to be I mean like we we we we scale   but you know we scale because there's opportunity  to scale um and I think if we sat still then   we'd get eaten up I mean our competitors are  exactly like that they sit stagnant they they   take dividends and everybody's happy living their  weekends and we're churning and and moving forward   and creating great things in the world right um  but if we didn't do that then you know if you sit   still too long I guess then you've got the risk of  being eaten up right so um it's probably probably   no different to this industry like I mean you  know like I'm under no illusions that this this   you know building Integrations of middleware won't  look like it is in in 5 years and you know people   are paying thousands for a connection between  two software endpoints like if the industry is   doing that in 5 years they should sh themselves  like it's ridiculous like you know we we should   be especially with AI and things like that it's  it's got to move right so because of that you've   got to move as a business so you you kind of get  eaten up so I guess when people say scale some   some people are scaling just to survive and and  some people are scaling purposely there's a couple   other things happen there scaling perspective  as well you know I've worked in tech companies   where they take investment and they have to scale  or the company just dies they're told 30% growth   every single year must be maintained which is  silly yeah because the market is not growing 30%   every single year and it almost feels like it's  eating its own like the snake eating its own tail   consuming itself um but you also spoke about some  of these companies right some of the ones that are   driving you the the fact that they just provide  such subpar service um I'm a little bit curious   here like do do any come to mind like who in  particular out there like got you started on this   journey that's just what is the bad software let's  name and shame them do they still exist today can   this be a new segment name and shame what's the  worst stuff you've used look look I think I think   um there's a few come to mind um but given the  position our position in the market is probably   not smart or advisable for me to name them um but  but I will say this that those companies will end   up tanking anyway M right and and to your point  the guys that are you know taking investment and   and and it's almost it's almost like a deal  with the devil yeah right the second you take   that money you you either unless you're taking  it for the for the point of an exit um and and   that's what a lot of people create companies for  right I mean that's the wrong reason to create   a company yeah I'm creating a company because  I'm going to exit it in 5 years time and that's   my my exit strategy is this blah blah blah blah  blah well you're not really thinking about the   real client are you or the end the end use um I I  personally think that you can scale but not scale   just in your one company so you know if you take  smooth link as a business you know it's building   Integrations you know for many many different  companies um you know Sim Pro procore HubSpot   um and and we've got a couple others that are that  are coming on online as well in the in the next uh   next little bit but you know I mean that company  itself has opportunity to scale outside of the   space it operates in in a in a kind of different  way which which will be completely different to   what every everyone's doing and anyone expects  and it will look like a completely different   I guess company to some degree but it will  still be doing its core functions um and and   I probably can't talk too much about that because  there's a you know there's a bit of a a strategy   in play for us on that um but but that's I guess  that's where I think companies need to move and   then you know we go and build other companies and  that's our way of scaling so when I talk about $5   billion in five years it's across the whole group  of businesses that we're into we're not we're not   after one company doing that one thing and you  know some of the companies that you spoke about   you know probably do need to move into some other  things and um create some other opportunities for   them and maybe let's not name and shame the tech  companies that you don't like but is there any   piece of tech techology you're just like this has  got it's time for the world to move past this we   we've grown away from this piece of technology  look I know I know a lot of people go on about   things like um slack and WhatsApp and you know  trigger triggered yeah yeah yeah look our company   our company is a big slack user um and and I  think it's a great tool don't get me wrong I   think the problem is um those guys it it it people  buy software usually because they're trying to   bring everything into one place right and if you  look at it right now and you you spoke to someone   company in a company company using a big stack  of solutions and those solution there's a lot   of crossover and blend into those Solutions so I  would probably say all of them you know probably   someone needs to come in with a solution  that pulls it all together um and and maybe   it's not always just going to be Integrations CU  there's a niche just within that hey I be doing   something like that talking to all of them and  saying this is the this is what I need from all   of these different softwares or applications  abolutely and then this is how we want it to   work for my business or this is how I want it to  work for me personally yeah build that do that for   me yeah they kind of always build it real time I  I would probably say Arin like that any company   where you've got to log to them to operate your  business is probably doing things wrong because   if you've got a login that means you've got  multiple logins across multiple platforms and   as soon as you do that you open up the the  opportunity to have error in your business   and miss something so you know companies really  should be trying to really be embedding themselves   properly in a users's you know life I guess so  I would probably say there's lots of them you   know who's doing this really well yeah China  yeah have you heard of WeChat oh yeah I know   WeChat yeah it's like isn't that what sort of el  musk was like I'm going to build by Twitter make   X this super app almost like what we is in China  like wechat's like the everything it's everything   that I think I honestly I I'm so sad that we live  in a western civilization we don't have anything   even remotely close yeah to a we chat I don't know  if you want the government control need a govern   version one right that's the difference between  their that's why it's just one because it's like   but it'd be so amazing you're right if someone  just started with we don't we don't actually have   anything we have the core that everything will  will build off the back of Y feel free to build   into it Y and then everyone builds around that  and now everything's communicating like I saw a   video I think what it was is uh uh this old lady  wakes up and she checks her WeChat and it's all   of her messages and it's not like emails or here  and there's instant messages here and then other   different platforms text messaging in there it's  just your messages yeah oh my God how good is that   it's just one place you go to find messages then  when she's done there she's like okay I need to   get uh breakfast and she clicks a button it's like  the restaurant that's right next to her and a show   all the breakfast options there cuz they're all  connected into the system as well and then when   she wants groceries it's like click the grocery  button on it and it shows all the groceries   that she's purchased before just does everything  that you need you don't have to have a login for   a billion different things and learn how that app  works or this one works all just we chat yeah and   that and that's what we should I believe that's  what we should be aiming for you know like I mean   you know our we've got a motto that's simplify  life in our businesses all all of our businesses   because at the end of the day that's what we're  all trying to do right just simp and and I feel   like our lives everyone bangs on about technology  and SAS and blah blah blah but we've made [ __ ]   more complicated than it ever was you know so  you know something like something like that   would be great I mean obviously got the control  issues and wor all those things to get around but   yeah yeah but yeah that's well I think I thought  that's what x was going to be like he wanted to   make this super app but then and it's banking it's  everything you know it was going to be everything   you want but again I'm like I got trust issues  I don't know if I want my one app already built   it know if I trust so I'm more like I'll get AI  to build something for me that connects with all   the apps and the software that I already like to  use and then I can streamline my life personally   for me I mean even even AI is a bit of a trap  if you think about I mean so many people are   relying on AI to do everything now and it's cool  right you can do a marketing plan but how many   people actually reading through their marketing  plan properly and going yeah that actually makes   a lot of sense people like using it to write a  business plan going there's my business plan and   they never actually [ __ ] read it readly spits  out stuff all over the place so it's a danger in   itself I think to some degree but uh it's it's  a tool it's it's an assistant but it's not the   whole thing you've got to sub it you got to check  it you got to fact check it all that sort of stuff   yeah yeah but interesting so future we're talking  about the future I guess here in terms of you know   where you see the future of of software and what  will be redundant in 5 years and I guess where do   you see the future of smooth link as well and and  well well I think you know look sass in general I   think everyone's trying to move into that space  because it it's like what I said before software   and Tech and you know SAS is kind of like seen to  be very sexy you know everyone's like I now want   to be a tech company change the name of my company  we're a tech company now yeah but look I mean the   future of the future of smooth link I it's kind of  like what I said before I'd be very very surprised   for most companies if they're ran in the same  um element they are at the moment in 10 years   and and if you're a company and you're not already  thinking about how you adapt and change to things   like AI as well right then then you're just going  to get eaten up so I think I think personally   that AI will probably eat up a lot of business um  and because I think everyone's been on a really a   really cruisy wave the last few years around Tech  where you just create something in Tech and boom   you're like a superstar right but you know with  AI coming into the into play if you're not a good   businessman or businesswoman or whatever you're  not going to be able to survive and and at the end   of the day software companies are just businesses  doesn't the software we sell is no different to a   manufacturing plan or a construction site you know  we've got all we've all got the same problems and   we're all using technology to do it right so um  I think that's I think that's a bit of a problem   that's that's happening there's a lot of techy  kind of people and you know um developers who you   know can build something really good and then go  run a business and it it ends up failing for them   because they're not going to be able to adapt with  it I am curious as well about the whole um I guess   you know use the word of making life simpler that  using technology to make life simpler you know I   see a lot of businesses trying to use technology  to make things more efficient and just drive this   like efficiency train and you know more business  is like let's get more efficient let's get more   out of our workers let's do this you know is  that the right direction or is that going to   cause I don't know a TR you know is it what do you  think of this I just feel like there's just this   efficiency push and I don't always know if that's  the best way yeah to do business or life you know   do things have to always be the quickest the most  efficient where you know where where is or is it   good because then you open up opportunity for  creativity and other things yeah look I I don't   know I mean I don't know what the answer is there  but I mean for me efficiency is good because I   come from a manufacturing background so everything  was about lean manufacturing and Six Sigma and all   that sort of stuff right um which funnily enough  all my businesses don't do any of that stuff so   that's there's there's your answer probably right  there right um but I do think efficiency plays   a place but I do I do feel like that people get  it wrong as well is you know the pendulum always   swings right um where where I think we're at a  point right now where we're coming back to where   people want a conversation again um and and you  know we we spoke about this in the past before as   well it's like too many people will divert to a  chat bot or an email um and and not a phone call   yeah and and sometimes you know you talk about  efficiency and people are like well just make it   where no one has to talk to you but efficiency is  sometimes picking up the phone and resolving the   problem straight away right yeah I get way  more done with a phone call or in in person   brain something and it's fixed it's solved  yeah yeah so so you know maybe maybe that   will come to a place where the AI plays a role  in that and and AI having those conversations   because you won't be able to tell the difference  I don't know um but yeah look I I do believe in   efficiency to some degree but I also believe  in um you know collaboration and that sort   of thing I think that's really important do  you think that has to do how do I phrase this   would you be would I be right in assuming from  your perspective that you think the younger   generation is more apt to be doing things like  messaging versus picking up a phone yeah of course   I mean I mean you know I'm I'm certainly under  No Illusion that but I'm I'm I'm 46 or something   at the moment right so I'm under No Illusion  that eventually you know a lot of the a lot   of the people especially in the space we play in  construction um a lot of the guys we're dealing   with and girls are around my era um so phone calls  are are King in that space right because that's   how they want to do business but you know you'd  be a fool to believe that if our business you know   we talked about where smooth link going to be in  5 10 years it's going to have to merge into that   the the Realms of like what my kids are where  they they don't talk to anyone and they expect   to order their meal without talking to someone and  me you see even in the McDonald's around the world   you they're they're even pushing you to not even  talk to anyone anymore the girl at the drivethru   even talk to you anymore just waves you and  like says pay not me I'm I'm old L chat over   here I'm like how's it morning going yeah I've  been in the car with your I want my food s I've   been home with the kids and working from home  all day for last week haven't seen anyone can   I just talk to you but yeah look I mean you know  may maybe that won't come through business maybe   maybe that that uh community and that need for  human interaction will come through I don't know   different communities or different activities will  come out of that and I don't know what the world   would look like uh at that point but I imagine  that the the new generation is going to certainly   turn everything upside down on that you know  they'll probably be very efficient yeah I feel   I have this I've always like think existentially  but I remember when I was working in the tourism   industry and producing travel shows uh you know  when when internet first sort of all started it   was like oh we have to make sure that we've got  TVs connected to everything we've got Wi-Fi and   that was like the big selling point and then now  it's like you do the digital detox you go to the   retreat there's zero technology and that's the  selling point is that it's zero Tech you know   so it's almost flipped to go from you know we  need to make sure we've got everything in the   hotel rooms and at the at the retreat and now  it's like you you come and and get away from it   all AB I always wonder whether you know that the  generation growing up with it is going to going   to kind of push back or say we don't want it we're  over it we just want that maybe you know maybe I   don't know what it is I just always thinking about  that you don't see it now I don't see it now but   I do wonder I think that's that stuff happens  because we grew up and we romanticized what the   past was before we were addicted to these phones  but these kids are growing up were like this is   the most important phase of their life is being  on social media and stuff but now it's it's you   can see the dark side of it you know now that's  coming to light and it's not causing positive   you know interactions it's bullying it's all that  sort of stuff the bands will be happening will it   will it will they Retreat back to just using it  for the efficiency just the simple part of life   it's not going to be a novelty it's not going to  be like this Obsession that we've all got with it   I think I think maybe the world might look like  you'll put on your goggles in the morning for   that generation yeah because they'll move away  from where they are right now right and you'll   put on your goggles or maybe even your glasses and  you'll go into another realm and you'll live there   and maybe your maybe your turning off technology  will be just getting back to a phone or a laptop   yeah that'll be old that'll be like Oh I'm going  old school I'm going toys my I'm going to use my   fingers to to open that W remember that using  fingers these right now I just use my eyes to   move around my glasses yeah true story I mean I  mean if you look at our generation right I mean   one of my best moments my my best holidays was I  I I was on call and I had to I was in in the steel   industry and I went over to the US and my I forgot  my charger and I had the old Blackberry back then   right and uh and I put it in the bottom of my  bag and it went flat and I spent two and a half   weeks in the US without a phone and it was the  best like the just asking people where to go how   do I get around expl walking exploring world I  love the Nostalgia of the I was like but you had   your you had your Apple watch right you had your  you had that telling you where to go what to do I   need maps and I need Wikipedia at a minimum I I've  got to be learning at all times and I need to know   where to go I think I I like well I drive a Tesla  at the moment and and I like I'm now reliant on   it so when I go back into a a a another vehicle  drive my mom's how and die I cannot drive it on a   highway because do do everything for me I'm just I  can't do my no I'm not going do but it's just you   know what I mean I'm just so reliant on it now but  it's not it's not a it's not a cool Gadget anymore   it's just it's just like you know it does its  thing and and I'm so reliant on and I feel like   it's not like I'm using Tech I don't feel I'm just  it's just a part of life it's very easy and simple   not distracting like a phone or some Obsession  you know have you have you ever had a sleep in   it while it's tring I haven't had a sleep in it  no but uh I've I've I I get distracted a lot I   get distracted a lot it's got the little camera  on the inside that that um use and the whole car   uses AI because it it's all the cameras around the  car sense all of the different Vehicles Road cones   anything on the side of the road and it creates  like a a real time yeah um map on you know of   where you're driving and so it knows everything  that's going on around you but it's also got a   little AI camera on the inside of the car that  checks your ey line to see if you're distracted   and it gives you a warning when it's on self-  drive so I'm constantly getting warnings and   and I even though the drive up from down at tweee  heads to the Sunshine Coast yesterday I got locked   out because it's like you've been given too many  warnings you're too distracted and I like but I'm   a distractable person like I'm looking around  I Buzz I don't sit still like you you're just   screw dating against my destructible personality  whenever I hear anyone talk about their Tesla   they get this animated and I just imagine El's  upstairs just like pulling dance puppet you're   worried about the China rap yeah I know I know  it's looking at my eyeline going you're looking   down too much Sarah you're picking a new podcast  and you&

2025-01-18 19:15

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