welcome to The Tech Panel 1 2 3 4 the podcast where Tech minds Meet Oh hey, before we get started today don't forget to subscribe and ring that bell. Welcome to The Tech Panel, I'm your host James Arvin and I'm Sarah Bowers and this is the podcast where we dive into the cutting edge ideas, innovations and technologies transforming Industries each week we're going to sit down with the leaders and disruptors at the forefront of these changes to hear their stories explore their vision and uncover the challenges they're solving in real time and today we're joined by a guest who's not just scaling companies he's redefining Industries he's built and led many businesses turning vision into action and action into million dollar success stories. He's a fast-paced innovator who knows how to find opportunity, harness it and scale it to new heights but what drives someone with such relentless ambition, what lessons come from building success after success and where does he see Tech and people falling short? Let's find out this is The Tech Panel. Hi Glen welcome to the show thank you for joining us today in person.
Thanks for having me guys. Firstly before we get into the nitty-gritty can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today at the helm of Smoothlink and the other companies? Yeah I can, so Smoothlink and the companies that have run after it I guess are about the 28th company that I've I've run um I started off, I guess like everyone does, uh when you first get your car and doing a mowing round and trailer and all that sort of stuff I've done a whole bunch of things sold businesses bought businesses um I guess the the reason I got into this is because I was into digital marketing and have a digital marketing company um a a good friend of mine came to me who was in construction he just bought a software uh called Procore that's a construction project management software, um and he had a problem because he needed to integrate the financials of Procore to uh his ERP system Xero which is a pretty big Australian, primarily Australian & New Zealand uh accounting software, um and so I went to one of the guys who worked for me who was a who was a um a developer at the time backend developer and asked him if he could build it we built that solution um and the reason they didn't go with it effectively is there was there was only one other solution in the Market at the time um and those guys were pretty arrogant to my friend who owned a construction company and that's kind of how came our way we basically built the solution I um I sold out of that digital marketing business bought into and actually bought the the developer on board and made him the CTO of the company um and he's also an owner of that company now um and we've gone into many other Ventures together now so we pretty much acquire businesses purchase businesses start do other startups and um Smoothlink itself uh the main company that we kind of started together is uh as now all around the world um throughout Namer and um throughout Europe and starting to get into Saudi Arabia as well. Amazing tell me a little bit more about Smoothlink when you built it how long did it take to build like was Procore you know impressed with with the speed in which you could just build this yeah I mean it was at the time I mean we didn't intend to build it to be what it is today um it was it was originally we'd done other things for like connectors with Simpro um just for backend website sort of things um so it wasn't it was originally supposed to be just another one of those um a oneoff sort of thing we did um the AE uh the Account Executive for Procore was the one that kind of helped us through building it um and my my good friend his construction company's uh CFO so he worked with our developer and you know probably took them was probably developed over sort of a 12 Month period to get it down to a a fine art um but what actually happened is we once we had that all set up for them uh the a Procore came back to us and said hey look your your products really really good it's more stable and reliable than the one we sell in the market um would you guys like to commercialize it and sell it to other other people and at the time we were like maybe you know um so yeah that's pretty much where it started we ask them how many clients they push our way and kind of the rest of History amazing and how many have you got at the moment clientwise it's still growing obviously yeah so I think the last count um with you know they Procore on their Marketplace look at it as installs and Simpro and HubSpot and some other people that we build to do you know measure measure things differently but there's in excess of 1600 in uh installs within a year or so uh no no that's over the last sort of four years four years yeah but uh we're certainly the market leaders that space amazing when we look at 1600 I know some people may think of that as like oh it's it's only 1600 there's probably tens of thousands of customers out there but 1600 is a significant share of the construction Market space especially your primary focus began in Australia I did and you're working in other markets abroad so yeah if we probably would it be safe assume probably 2/3 of that or 3/4 of that and was Australian based um yeah probably I mean at the moment we're probably running at about a 60/40 40% of our revenues coming out of APAC and the rest of it's around the world right so that also puts this in a different light right so if it's 60 40 60 in Australia 40 in uh 40 in Australia probably we do Australia, we do more overseas than wow okay so yeah it's still a big share of the construction Market space like there's not tens of of thousands of construction companies over here and you know you only need a few of these to make a pretty big dent uh and then now you're expanding over into the US where this is where things can really go crazy if you really start to shake things up over there for procore side of things yeah um what has been the strategy how have you uh thought or what made you think we're ready to move into the US market um I think for us we kind of got to a point where we were pretty comfortable I mean U myself the other owner the company sort of got to a you know we went through the hi yards like every business does where you you can't afford to pay for anything um didn't take a wage for a couple of years all that sort of thing um but we got we kind of got to a point where it was either it's either we just stay where we are and be comfortable and do our thing or um you know we we go Global and you know we you know kind of made the decision I said to him hey look are you willing to do this and he was like yep I'm in, all in and you know we we sort of put a big focus on going global with the business obviously all this boils down to right people at the right time uh what gave you the confidence in knowing that you are ready from an australian-based company to move into that side what was the process of getting all of your ducks in a row and making sure the people were ready to scale in the US um look a lot of people ask us that all the time and and I mean the first thing I probably mention is our our business is a bit different uh which I found out over time that that you know we don't take any investment so everything's bootstrapped the whole business even to this point um so there's a lot of interest in you know VCS and people trying to get into our business because it is a very a good company and a fast growing company we we sort of grow anywhere from 147 to 167% year on-ear and we've constantly done that um but I guess the hard part the hardest part for us was how do we fund it um so we had to fund it off the back of the APAC sales and then had to stretch our team so um the the biggest thing was the team that we had at the time uh were were willing to go on the adventure with us so you know we had we had one of the guys who were trying to get somebody into the into Canada and you know within two weeks he was up and going and off he went and um you know we've we've had we we had some strategic play in that where we you know we we strategically uh placed ourselves as a as a uh a good option for a couple of employees uh from Procore and and experienced people that we could leverage that overseas um and get that growth as well but it was certainly uh it was certainly a bit of a a throw at the wall and see how what sticks but you know that the year prior to us going global um Malo my business partner and myself pretty much ran the whole clock so that's that's how we did it without money we we literally did a year of um answering the phones you know I was the sales guy and he was The Tech Guy at the time so you know for the first for the first 12 months of going overseas we'd do our Australian or do our New Zealand business our clients we'd answer the phone to them three hours later we were in the Australian Market we'd work the day here then we'd work into afternoon go home for dinner and then we'd be on calls with the UK um and then they'd wrap up and we'd be on calls with the US and Canada through the night and then start again early at you know 5: in the morning again so you know we probably a year where both of us did you know very very broken sleep for 12 months and and a lot of people always ask me how did you do it but at the end of the day it was just you know I don't know if you call it stupidity or or what but we didn't have the money to hire people so we just did it ourselves and we're lucky enough to then bring more people on to support that uh from our pack team so speaking of you know I think we come from similar backgrounds we we didn't start in Tech I think you had a construction background as well is that correct no no so I I came from uh the steel industry I work for um company called Commercial Metal Company CMC based out of the US right uh and then they they acquired our company in Australia so yeah so I did about 15 years from the ground up running a machine all the way up into a national title that's it yeah so you're coming from a background like I think sort of similar to me yeah yours more manufacturing mine construction um and we've moved into this Tech space very different I'm sure it would have been been different for you it's different for me um where you know in construction as I'm sure it is in steel space as well the bottom line is always what matters I feel like the company needs to survive and we've now moved into this sort of tech space where it feels like they always sort of you know preach that it's all about the people we need to be focusing on the people if you just invest into the people everything else will follow um but at the end of the day isn't the company survival the main priority here do you feel you're having competing interests here trying to follow the tech Vibe versus putting the most focus into the business yeah absolutely I mean yeah look I I mean my background coming from manufacturing and you know managing you know blue collar workers and and you know it was very very different to what we're doing in the sou space right but um you know look I I think the industry is a bit shot too like it you know there's there's there's lots of glorified people in this space that think they're much better than they are and you know they they expect things to to come to them I think maybe it's the world just in general but um you know everyone wants something for nothing without putting in the hard yards um I'd probably you know I I I wrote this down the other day and I was I was talking to one of my team about it but it's almost like for me people want to work for a great company and they see tech companies as great companies right um because it's sexy but it's not really it's just a it's just another business um but but at the end of the day I mean you know people want to work for a great company but you can't work for a great company if you're not a great employee so you know I'd probably tell everybody you know that's listening to this or anyone that's working for a company you know if you're not operating at the highest level as an employee then you probably need to check yourself because you're not going to work for a great company because a great company can't be sustainable and we've seen this time and time again through big companies you know um you know the sales forces of the world and and big companies that go out on this limb and try to do what you know what the world expects them to do and Society expects them to do and they end up almost taking their companies over it and you know it really comes down to for me it really comes down to the business comes first and if the business survives then everybody else flourishes from that right so if everyone has that same mentality and then you look at the business it's really about the client so um I I I I really I really just think that people have it wrong you know people just think that um you know they can take from a business and you know especially a company like ours we don't have deep pocket so it's really really hard for us to we got to make sure that we've always got the right people on board and people that are passionate about going where they're going and and want to work for a great company very honest realistic approach I guess that it is the business if the business doesn't survive the employee won't have a job you know that's pretty simple but yeah how do you I guess keep your employees motivated how do you reward greatness and what what is a great employee to you I think um you know I I I talk with people about this all the time and it's probably a little bit it can be taken the wrong way but I mean for me personally um I always say to everybody you know flexibility comes from reliability so you know if you prove to me that you're reliable not just in turning up on time but you know the little things right it's it's as a business you can't scale if you can't rely on r on your people and a good example of that is you know we talked about going global before I mean were the key players in getting us Global picked up their life and moved within a week to two weeks you know um so we had we had the first guy that did that in Canada and then we had one of our guys that was based out of out of London in our London office coming back to Australia and um one of our our team in Australia she just picked up her her whole life and and and took off to build a team over there for us so they've got that willingness you know well yeah so you know like for us we couldn't we couldn't be here where we are today if we didn't have people like that so that to me is Success you know and and those people will you know reap the rewards of the business and how it goes and I guess the way I I deliver that is very individually so I don't I'm not a big believer in you know a reward for everybody and everyone gets equal because at the end of the day reality is is everyone doesn't put in equal so um it comes back to that whole thing like if you want to work for a great company you be need to be a great employee yeah um you know and unfortunately you call it employee or team member or whatever you know fluff you want to put around the word of it but like at the end of the day it's it's a group of people trying to achieve the same thing um and they and everyone needs to be passionate about it and if you're not passionate about it then don't don't do it that's the one thing find your place you know I guess even if you're interviewing you can sort of see who has those spark who has that passion if you've got a passion and you're you're willing and you're you know a hard worker you can kind of you can you can take on the the roles you can learn yeah you know and I think that's like the big big thing that I find with my industry particular you've got to have that passion and that drive and that willingness and then you could pick up you know the the the individual skills that you might not have AB in the job with with that those people that you said are are those you those great employees in your eyes and you do reward them is that monetary reward is that opportunities is that how do you how do you do that I I mean a whole business is based on opportunity so we we have a we have a spin-off company called opportunity Empire um and and that came about because you know I really want to try and create a company that people can't people are drawn to so you come here not to work you come here to achieve your personal goals and whatever that may be right so for some people that's I want to buy my first car or some people it's I want to take a family holiday or it's I want to buy my first house and for us I mean we're investors just like you are and you know we invest in property and factories and and all those sort of and business and and all those sort of things so you know we've got got we've got great Brokers and great lawyers and and everybody you could possibly need so you know for for me one of our you know it actually really hurt me that I heard two of our employees bought a house and they went through all the pain that you go through buying a house and I was like you know like if you if I had have known I could have I could have hooked you up with a whole bunch of people that would have looked after you right so and that's really what that that's to me is where where business should be the community it should really be about like where do you want to go and not not the wanky stuff right corporate does where they're like hey know come where do you want to be in five years your leadership plan all that sort of thing yeah it's more it's more real yeah what people really want to do and some people some people everyone's dreams different right and everyone's everyone everyone's different but um you know that that's where the opportunity Empire really came out of it so we've we've got a spin-off company that looks after all of our companies and there's a team that sits within that um we've got legal Finance um marketing the whole work so it's really around anybody um who wants to do something bigger with their life but doesn't know how cuz it CU it is a a bumpy road um you know that that that's what we do we offer that it's either investing in money or it's investing in resources or it's investing in you know our IP or expertise um so yeah so so for example if I was one of your employees and I wanted to um oh you gave the example of buying a house but let's say I wanted to start a a small uh you know a small business on my own on my own time I could say hey Glenn you know this is one of my goals for this year or the next five years can you help me reach that and opportunity Empire would kind of give me the resources and you'd say chat to my lawyers chat to me here I will do some mentoring sessions I can I can coach you on how to start the small business give you my my time and and expertise you know giving back in that way yeah exactly that's great but not just employees so where it's it's really around like I found a long time ago like people would everyone comes to me like a lot of people come to me and they're like hey I want to run a business can you help me and I found out really really oh probably not really really quickly stupidly it took me a long time to realize that not everyone's made equal and some people want something but it's kind of like what we said before there's you got to have a certain drive to want something right and it's that passion it's like you know if you want to start a business then that's great but I can't be the guy that wakes up at 5 a.m for you and re you know is putting fliers on cars for you and doing all the all the [ __ ] stuff that You' got to do to get yourself off the ground right that needs to be you and and if it's going to be me then it's not going to work so you know it's opportunity Empires really around creating an opportunity for people that really have a desire to do something um and we're we're kind of doing that off this off the spin of our our teams and other people so it's not just our teams it's friends and family but you know unfortunately for people that come to work and then they do a job and you know some people are looking for a community in the business some people are individuals and they want to do their own thing but um you know like you know if I was I just look back the way I used to do things and when I first bought my first house nobody in the company knew I was trying to buy a house and it was hard you know you you go see a broker or something and they rip you off and then somebody out the bit peston building rips you off and then Council rips you off and you know there's a million things you've got to you know navigate through and then you go have a family and then you're getting married and blah blah blah so the the idea of for me is really creating a a company or a a a I wouldn't even call it a company a maybe an ecosystem an ecosystem of people that want to come here because they they they come and work here because they want to do something with their personal life and that might be and at the end of the day that might be hey look I want to buy a house and then I want to have a kid and it's like okay how do we how do how do we help you get there I don't need your help okay yeah but you know maybe maybe here if you need it two years if you need it yeah exact yeah so and and and that's the hard part so yeah opportunity Empires really around offering whatever it is they need whatever the Gap is that they have on the on the path that they plan this is a very different take on employee benefits that people don't really take into consideration you know when people go to tech companies what they do is they go you know what benefits do they have and they're like you can get discount at like this or this and it's like oh great I got to buy stuff that's that's my benefit that I get 5% off and you're essentially saying like look if you want to buy a home we've got like people here that have gone through the process will lean in will help you out and we also know the builders do you want to renovate when you build it we've got the people that you probably want to talk that's real benefit that I people think absolutely actually want to take advantage of as you you touched up before that Community sort of you know you've got it takes a village to you know raise a kid and do a lot of things and it's like the business Village almost yeah the hard part I guess the hard part for us is really trying to get everyone in the team to understand that that you have a whole team behind you to get to where you want to goh so you know like that that's a challenge in itself I guess I love that because every business i' every company I've worked for you know if if you sit down once a year or every six months to do your plans it's never about your personal goals it's always about your career goals and it's almost like this is an opportunity to only chat about your career goals where do you want to be but it's like well you know what career and life is is is you know blending more and more these days like more people are putting that emphasis on the balance The elusive balance or you know intertwining both career and yeah lifestyle so it makes perfect sense that you're bringing that into yeah yeah and I mean even from a performance point of view like big companies they do performance reviews and it's all very wanky and whatever but you know for me a performance review and we've got some coming up but it really for me it's around you know are you achieving your goal and if they're like well no you're letting yourself and me down like you know because my goal is to grow the business to you know we want to try and get it to $5 billion in five years right so are people helping you know are you helping us get to that path and then are we helping you get to your goal and and their goal you know you hopefully their goal sits within my goal um because then I can achieve I can help them achieve right but um but you know like if if I'm not helping them or if they're not helping themselves get to their goal then they're not helping me get to my goal right so that's that's a performance review in my eyes yeah it it's that simple it's interesting I've I've gone through quite a few performance reviews and that's definitely not the take that most tech companies are familiar with today it's always you know how do you feel about where you are today in life and where do you feel you're going to be in 5 years time and it's it's always again I think this comes just from the background where I'm from you know like performance reviews are usually performance-based they're not really like how do you feel about the world today or the way you've you're operating in it it's very much like what is happening right now with you where do you think you can be performance-wise in 3 months or a year's time what steps are you taking to get there and measuring you along that way and if there's a dip providing you guidance to make sure we get you back on track so there's no slip in you and you know and uh your life cycle with the business but speaking of difficulty you know um what what is the hardest decision that you think you've had to make while managing a business and how do you think that has shaped the way you're managing a company today um I don't really know to be honest if I I think I mean there's there's there's lots of hard decisions I I don't think business is a series of hard decisions yeah yeah I mean you know if if um if I'm truly honest about it the hardest decision I've had to make is um not spending time with my family yep so that's probably that's probably the biggest you know business unfortunately you know and some people have this right and and and you know I do what everyone else does and listen to podcasts and follow people and you know it's almost like an Instagram of these guys that like yeah the perfect we're on a boat and you know I work four hours a day and Tim Ferris you know 4 Hour Work week and you know all that all that kind of crap is not reality if you're you know you're trying to run the business to to scale the business to that point um so you know unfortunately you know like something always gives right it's it's either your health or it's the business or it's you know family or whatever and you know kudos to the guys that have got that right um and I but I feel like that's the journey is is trying to get to that point and that's probably for everyone right oh go yeah it's it's trying to find that that balance but I don't actually think there is a balance I'm like balance I I always get balance in better comments because I don't understand that word no neither do I and and it's it like for me for me at the point where're at right now is you know everything suffers like I you know I probably sleep three hours a night um because even when I'm awake I'm thinking about the other businesses or what we could do or you know cash flow in one of our other businesses or you know someone's got a problem and I'm trying to fix it or you know there there's always something but um you know yeah that's that's probably the toughest decision in business is having to step away from my family and making them pay the price I mean every you know new business owner has to put in the that that hard yards and that drive and be like 120 150% in it you've done 28 businesses you've got multiple at the moment like how how do you focus your time or energy you don't you just scatter gun no I I mean I am a bit of a scattergun um I I I do what other people do I try to surround myself with people that are balanced um because I'm probably not as balanced as I probably should be um but you know look I I mean at the end of the day it's it's it's a really around trying to put people in place that are passionate about doing what they're doing and hopefully they're they're driving in a way um where I become more of a mentor to those those guys so you know I mean look people like elong muskin people do it right so you should probably get him on the show by the way um but you know like I mean those guys do it and you know I don't have a private jet yet to save time but um but really I guess that's that's probably it in my mind it's really around trying to become more of a mentor for people and and and the leaders in the business so I can help them get to where they need to be yeah I think yeah I guess you know you you've got your own business goals and you're driven for that but that other side of it where it sounds like you really you know do put value on mentoring and and passing your knowledge on I think that's that's where that value that payoff comes for you I guess is that you might not be spending as much time with your kids but you're giving back to society and you're giving back to your employees by you know feeling like there's value there and it's worth it yeah absolutely yeah yeah look I think for me that's um you know I I always help people so and and to my detriment a lot of the time as well right so um you know but but I always just want people to do well and be able to their goals and and and that's where opportunity empire did come from as well so there's a guy uh that I follow called Dan Martell I don't know if you know Dan Martell or not um he's based out of Colona in in Canada and I had my EA at the time try to try he does a hike every Tuesday with a bunch of Founders SAS Founders and I I had my EA um book in and and get a spot for me to do the hike so I flew over there with my wife went and did this hike hiked up the hill with these guys and and I thought I was going to get something magical out of you know trying to get something out of him he's got $100 million AR business you know he's got a few of them I think um and and what I found when I was there is there's 40 guys hiking this hill and you know everyone once they found out what I did and how many things I was in I ended up talking to people and mentoring people up the hill and then I got to the top and I didn't get to chat to him and he was like oh we're gonna catch up and I was like yeah yeah and then on the way down I was chatting to people and then you know this guy runs on a on a clock like on a dime like he's got he literally does a hike with a timekeeper so you know this guy's like ah time's up and he's like I see guys and I found myself there for for another hour and a half with a whole bunch of people um but when I looked around on that hike I noticed there was a big circle around him because everyone was there for him but then there was a small circle around me and I was I was absolutely off that whole trip because I I was like God damn it flew all the way over here didn't get to do it I was puffed out and cooked up the hill because I'm not fit enough and then and then I you know I kind of winged my wife our whole trip through Canada and um when I got back I realized that um you know probably my purpose is to help people and that's where opportunity Empire came and so I've decided to do that and that's been my drive the whole time is just helping people yeah and you it's just a great lesson in life that you have this expectation of one thing physically hiking up a hill getting that it doesn't work out but you learned all these other things along the way and you then use that to create another business and do something else absolutely um with those 28 businesses that you've got you know obviously you had there's about eight active at the moment I think when do you know when to like tap out when do you know when to start the next one is it you know and and then scaling as well I want to talk about that you know when do you know when to scale when to pull back yeah I I think for me like like I'm pretty good at a few things and and although the businesses that we have are vastly different they all have an element in it that I know know what I'm doing um so I only go into things that I know what I'm doing in I don't I don't go into things I don't have a clue about um so you know I guess for me it's really around trying to trying to create opportunity for myself and other people at the same time but um I I guess the the biggest thing is especially in the software space and and and around SAS I got really pissed off because there's not really good software out there and everyone's promoting their software was being great um and and I can truly put my hand on my heart and and say that you know uh my business partner and the CTO of our companies and he's in multiple companies with me as well you know he's by far you know he's almost like the Rainman I joke about the Rainman Tech you know like he he can count how many sticks dropped on the ground or whatever but um he he's he's also he's also really really dedicated he can do front end and back end um and he puts in probably more hours than anyone in the business alone right but um I guess out of that we have really really good software and and everything comes back to us the market tells us that uh our clients tell us that and for me it really frustrates me that there's really shitty software out there and people take a lot of money then they you know they they they get seed money investment money and then they use other people's money to build shitty software until they get it right and then and then they get it right and then they start paying back people right um and that that really frust frustrates me so so when I get frustrated like that I usually start another company and and try to create a solution out of it so that's that's pretty much where theyve all come from yeah just that frustration that need for like this doesn't work I'm going to build it better and I want I want to do that yeah I and I think I think for most yeah I dare say that most Founders out there have founded their company out of a problem they've had I would I would dare say most of them yeah um you know because that's that's usually what happens right you get frustrated you can't find the solution to the problem you have and you know if you've got the means to be able to build it then might as well just go build it when I was going to say when is that backfired that would have backfired a few times at all or when has scaling backfired like you know is there a point where you go we just leave it where it is it's doing well but there's always seems to be this glorified I guess idea of you've got to scale up you got to get bigger you got to scale scale it's like it could be just be perfect where it is like yeah I don't I don't think anything's perfect where it is um you know maybe I'm wrong but I think if you uh you know I know Tony Robbins says that if you're not you know if you're not moving forward you're dying right so that's me my kind of philosophy but I think we're both the sort of people that are always moving driving moving well I think you've got to be I mean like we we we we scale but you know we scale because there's opportunity to scale um and I think if we sat still then we'd get eaten up I mean our competitors are exactly like that they sit stagnant they they take dividends and everybody's happy living their weekends and we're churning and and moving forward and creating great things in the world right um but if we didn't do that then you know if you sit still too long I guess then you've got the risk of being eaten up right so um it's probably probably no different to this industry like I mean you know like I'm under no illusions that this this you know building Integrations of middleware won't look like it is in in 5 years and you know people are paying thousands for a connection between two software endpoints like if the industry is doing that in 5 years they should sh themselves like it's ridiculous like you know we we should be especially with AI and things like that it's it's got to move right so because of that you've got to move as a business so you you kind of get eaten up so I guess when people say scale some some people are scaling just to survive and and some people are scaling purposely there's a couple other things happen there scaling perspective as well you know I've worked in tech companies where they take investment and they have to scale or the company just dies they're told 30% growth every single year must be maintained which is silly yeah because the market is not growing 30% every single year and it almost feels like it's eating its own like the snake eating its own tail consuming itself um but you also spoke about some of these companies right some of the ones that are driving you the the fact that they just provide such subpar service um I'm a little bit curious here like do do any come to mind like who in particular out there like got you started on this journey that's just what is the bad software let's name and shame them do they still exist today can this be a new segment name and shame what's the worst stuff you've used look look I think I think um there's a few come to mind um but given the position our position in the market is probably not smart or advisable for me to name them um but but I will say this that those companies will end up tanking anyway M right and and to your point the guys that are you know taking investment and and and it's almost it's almost like a deal with the devil yeah right the second you take that money you you either unless you're taking it for the for the point of an exit um and and that's what a lot of people create companies for right I mean that's the wrong reason to create a company yeah I'm creating a company because I'm going to exit it in 5 years time and that's my my exit strategy is this blah blah blah blah blah well you're not really thinking about the real client are you or the end the end use um I I personally think that you can scale but not scale just in your one company so you know if you take smooth link as a business you know it's building Integrations you know for many many different companies um you know Sim Pro procore HubSpot um and and we've got a couple others that are that are coming on online as well in the in the next uh next little bit but you know I mean that company itself has opportunity to scale outside of the space it operates in in a in a kind of different way which which will be completely different to what every everyone's doing and anyone expects and it will look like a completely different I guess company to some degree but it will still be doing its core functions um and and I probably can't talk too much about that because there's a you know there's a bit of a a strategy in play for us on that um but but that's I guess that's where I think companies need to move and then you know we go and build other companies and that's our way of scaling so when I talk about $5 billion in five years it's across the whole group of businesses that we're into we're not we're not after one company doing that one thing and you know some of the companies that you spoke about you know probably do need to move into some other things and um create some other opportunities for them and maybe let's not name and shame the tech companies that you don't like but is there any piece of tech techology you're just like this has got it's time for the world to move past this we we've grown away from this piece of technology look I know I know a lot of people go on about things like um slack and WhatsApp and you know trigger triggered yeah yeah yeah look our company our company is a big slack user um and and I think it's a great tool don't get me wrong I think the problem is um those guys it it it people buy software usually because they're trying to bring everything into one place right and if you look at it right now and you you spoke to someone company in a company company using a big stack of solutions and those solution there's a lot of crossover and blend into those Solutions so I would probably say all of them you know probably someone needs to come in with a solution that pulls it all together um and and maybe it's not always just going to be Integrations CU there's a niche just within that hey I be doing something like that talking to all of them and saying this is the this is what I need from all of these different softwares or applications abolutely and then this is how we want it to work for my business or this is how I want it to work for me personally yeah build that do that for me yeah they kind of always build it real time I I would probably say Arin like that any company where you've got to log to them to operate your business is probably doing things wrong because if you've got a login that means you've got multiple logins across multiple platforms and as soon as you do that you open up the the opportunity to have error in your business and miss something so you know companies really should be trying to really be embedding themselves properly in a users's you know life I guess so I would probably say there's lots of them you know who's doing this really well yeah China yeah have you heard of WeChat oh yeah I know WeChat yeah it's like isn't that what sort of el musk was like I'm going to build by Twitter make X this super app almost like what we is in China like wechat's like the everything it's everything that I think I honestly I I'm so sad that we live in a western civilization we don't have anything even remotely close yeah to a we chat I don't know if you want the government control need a govern version one right that's the difference between their that's why it's just one because it's like but it'd be so amazing you're right if someone just started with we don't we don't actually have anything we have the core that everything will will build off the back of Y feel free to build into it Y and then everyone builds around that and now everything's communicating like I saw a video I think what it was is uh uh this old lady wakes up and she checks her WeChat and it's all of her messages and it's not like emails or here and there's instant messages here and then other different platforms text messaging in there it's just your messages yeah oh my God how good is that it's just one place you go to find messages then when she's done there she's like okay I need to get uh breakfast and she clicks a button it's like the restaurant that's right next to her and a show all the breakfast options there cuz they're all connected into the system as well and then when she wants groceries it's like click the grocery button on it and it shows all the groceries that she's purchased before just does everything that you need you don't have to have a login for a billion different things and learn how that app works or this one works all just we chat yeah and that and that's what we should I believe that's what we should be aiming for you know like I mean you know our we've got a motto that's simplify life in our businesses all all of our businesses because at the end of the day that's what we're all trying to do right just simp and and I feel like our lives everyone bangs on about technology and SAS and blah blah blah but we've made [ __ ] more complicated than it ever was you know so you know something like something like that would be great I mean obviously got the control issues and wor all those things to get around but yeah yeah but yeah that's well I think I thought that's what x was going to be like he wanted to make this super app but then and it's banking it's everything you know it was going to be everything you want but again I'm like I got trust issues I don't know if I want my one app already built it know if I trust so I'm more like I'll get AI to build something for me that connects with all the apps and the software that I already like to use and then I can streamline my life personally for me I mean even even AI is a bit of a trap if you think about I mean so many people are relying on AI to do everything now and it's cool right you can do a marketing plan but how many people actually reading through their marketing plan properly and going yeah that actually makes a lot of sense people like using it to write a business plan going there's my business plan and they never actually [ __ ] read it readly spits out stuff all over the place so it's a danger in itself I think to some degree but uh it's it's a tool it's it's an assistant but it's not the whole thing you've got to sub it you got to check it you got to fact check it all that sort of stuff yeah yeah but interesting so future we're talking about the future I guess here in terms of you know where you see the future of of software and what will be redundant in 5 years and I guess where do you see the future of smooth link as well and and well well I think you know look sass in general I think everyone's trying to move into that space because it it's like what I said before software and Tech and you know SAS is kind of like seen to be very sexy you know everyone's like I now want to be a tech company change the name of my company we're a tech company now yeah but look I mean the future of the future of smooth link I it's kind of like what I said before I'd be very very surprised for most companies if they're ran in the same um element they are at the moment in 10 years and and if you're a company and you're not already thinking about how you adapt and change to things like AI as well right then then you're just going to get eaten up so I think I think personally that AI will probably eat up a lot of business um and because I think everyone's been on a really a really cruisy wave the last few years around Tech where you just create something in Tech and boom you're like a superstar right but you know with AI coming into the into play if you're not a good businessman or businesswoman or whatever you're not going to be able to survive and and at the end of the day software companies are just businesses doesn't the software we sell is no different to a manufacturing plan or a construction site you know we've got all we've all got the same problems and we're all using technology to do it right so um I think that's I think that's a bit of a problem that's that's happening there's a lot of techy kind of people and you know um developers who you know can build something really good and then go run a business and it it ends up failing for them because they're not going to be able to adapt with it I am curious as well about the whole um I guess you know use the word of making life simpler that using technology to make life simpler you know I see a lot of businesses trying to use technology to make things more efficient and just drive this like efficiency train and you know more business is like let's get more efficient let's get more out of our workers let's do this you know is that the right direction or is that going to cause I don't know a TR you know is it what do you think of this I just feel like there's just this efficiency push and I don't always know if that's the best way yeah to do business or life you know do things have to always be the quickest the most efficient where you know where where is or is it good because then you open up opportunity for creativity and other things yeah look I I don't know I mean I don't know what the answer is there but I mean for me efficiency is good because I come from a manufacturing background so everything was about lean manufacturing and Six Sigma and all that sort of stuff right um which funnily enough all my businesses don't do any of that stuff so that's there's there's your answer probably right there right um but I do think efficiency plays a place but I do I do feel like that people get it wrong as well is you know the pendulum always swings right um where where I think we're at a point right now where we're coming back to where people want a conversation again um and and you know we we spoke about this in the past before as well it's like too many people will divert to a chat bot or an email um and and not a phone call yeah and and sometimes you know you talk about efficiency and people are like well just make it where no one has to talk to you but efficiency is sometimes picking up the phone and resolving the problem straight away right yeah I get way more done with a phone call or in in person brain something and it's fixed it's solved yeah yeah so so you know maybe maybe that will come to a place where the AI plays a role in that and and AI having those conversations because you won't be able to tell the difference I don't know um but yeah look I I do believe in efficiency to some degree but I also believe in um you know collaboration and that sort of thing I think that's really important do you think that has to do how do I phrase this would you be would I be right in assuming from your perspective that you think the younger generation is more apt to be doing things like messaging versus picking up a phone yeah of course I mean I mean you know I'm I'm certainly under No Illusion that but I'm I'm I'm 46 or something at the moment right so I'm under No Illusion that eventually you know a lot of the a lot of the people especially in the space we play in construction um a lot of the guys we're dealing with and girls are around my era um so phone calls are are King in that space right because that's how they want to do business but you know you'd be a fool to believe that if our business you know we talked about where smooth link going to be in 5 10 years it's going to have to merge into that the the Realms of like what my kids are where they they don't talk to anyone and they expect to order their meal without talking to someone and me you see even in the McDonald's around the world you they're they're even pushing you to not even talk to anyone anymore the girl at the drivethru even talk to you anymore just waves you and like says pay not me I'm I'm old L chat over here I'm like how's it morning going yeah I've been in the car with your I want my food s I've been home with the kids and working from home all day for last week haven't seen anyone can I just talk to you but yeah look I mean you know may maybe that won't come through business maybe maybe that that uh community and that need for human interaction will come through I don't know different communities or different activities will come out of that and I don't know what the world would look like uh at that point but I imagine that the the new generation is going to certainly turn everything upside down on that you know they'll probably be very efficient yeah I feel I have this I've always like think existentially but I remember when I was working in the tourism industry and producing travel shows uh you know when when internet first sort of all started it was like oh we have to make sure that we've got TVs connected to everything we've got Wi-Fi and that was like the big selling point and then now it's like you do the digital detox you go to the retreat there's zero technology and that's the selling point is that it's zero Tech you know so it's almost flipped to go from you know we need to make sure we've got everything in the hotel rooms and at the at the retreat and now it's like you you come and and get away from it all AB I always wonder whether you know that the generation growing up with it is going to going to kind of push back or say we don't want it we're over it we just want that maybe you know maybe I don't know what it is I just always thinking about that you don't see it now I don't see it now but I do wonder I think that's that stuff happens because we grew up and we romanticized what the past was before we were addicted to these phones but these kids are growing up were like this is the most important phase of their life is being on social media and stuff but now it's it's you can see the dark side of it you know now that's coming to light and it's not causing positive you know interactions it's bullying it's all that sort of stuff the bands will be happening will it will it will they Retreat back to just using it for the efficiency just the simple part of life it's not going to be a novelty it's not going to be like this Obsession that we've all got with it I think I think maybe the world might look like you'll put on your goggles in the morning for that generation yeah because they'll move away from where they are right now right and you'll put on your goggles or maybe even your glasses and you'll go into another realm and you'll live there and maybe your maybe your turning off technology will be just getting back to a phone or a laptop yeah that'll be old that'll be like Oh I'm going old school I'm going toys my I'm going to use my fingers to to open that W remember that using fingers these right now I just use my eyes to move around my glasses yeah true story I mean I mean if you look at our generation right I mean one of my best moments my my best holidays was I I I was on call and I had to I was in in the steel industry and I went over to the US and my I forgot my charger and I had the old Blackberry back then right and uh and I put it in the bottom of my bag and it went flat and I spent two and a half weeks in the US without a phone and it was the best like the just asking people where to go how do I get around expl walking exploring world I love the Nostalgia of the I was like but you had your you had your Apple watch right you had your you had that telling you where to go what to do I need maps and I need Wikipedia at a minimum I I've got to be learning at all times and I need to know where to go I think I I like well I drive a Tesla at the moment and and I like I'm now reliant on it so when I go back into a a a another vehicle drive my mom's how and die I cannot drive it on a highway because do do everything for me I'm just I can't do my no I'm not going do but it's just you know what I mean I'm just so reliant on it now but it's not it's not a it's not a cool Gadget anymore it's just it's just like you know it does its thing and and I'm so reliant on and I feel like it's not like I'm using Tech I don't feel I'm just it's just a part of life it's very easy and simple not distracting like a phone or some Obsession you know have you have you ever had a sleep in it while it's tring I haven't had a sleep in it no but uh I've I've I I get distracted a lot I get distracted a lot it's got the little camera on the inside that that um use and the whole car uses AI because it it's all the cameras around the car sense all of the different Vehicles Road cones anything on the side of the road and it creates like a a real time yeah um map on you know of where you're driving and so it knows everything that's going on around you but it's also got a little AI camera on the inside of the car that checks your ey line to see if you're distracted and it gives you a warning when it's on self- drive so I'm constantly getting warnings and and I even though the drive up from down at tweee heads to the Sunshine Coast yesterday I got locked out because it's like you've been given too many warnings you're too distracted and I like but I'm a distractable person like I'm looking around I Buzz I don't sit still like you you're just screw dating against my destructible personality whenever I hear anyone talk about their Tesla they get this animated and I just imagine El's upstairs just like pulling dance puppet you're worried about the China rap yeah I know I know it's looking at my eyeline going you're looking down too much Sarah you're picking a new podcast and you&
2025-01-18 19:15