S2E4: Tech Journey Insights

welcome to Tech Journey insights with me Beverly Clark and co-host Rebecca Franks in Tech Journey insights we discuss what's grabbing our attention in the world of tech and we also share tips of our journey as women through the world of tech so let's get right in welcome everyone joining us today and Rebecca what is grabbing your attention in the world of tech and what's what's what's going on in your personal Journey yeah so at the moment our most exciting thing is that my company flip Computing we've got creative Catalyst Grant from innovate UK to create an online learning experience the projects called textbooks for the metaverse and we actually released Island on fortnite last week so this is this is Island it's called I like that I like that it's called storytelling with music and if you play Island you'll all you'll learn all about how to use music in storytelling in in all sorts of different ways so whether it's in game design in film all sorts of scenarios so you'll learn that as you play so you'll actually learn something and you'll be able to compose your own music as well so it's quite a cool Island a good experience so that was really really exciting being able to launch that last week and get people get our first users trying it out and giving w wow wow really exciting what's new with you well thank you well still my recently released book book yeah it's got fun facts crosswords puzzles mazes crypto puzzles all sorts of things it's based upon my children's book series the digital Adventures of aan Chip and it's really about getting young people children to get to grips with tech in a fun way so the book series is about reading for pleasure around the digital world and then we've got the complimentary activity book to just have a bit more fun with tech so lots of words and while it's aimed at children it's also good for the whole family so I would say it's a perfect stocking filler as we come up to this Christmas period so that's keeping me quite busy and of course all things around the charity for everyone listening I have founded a charity Rebecca's chair of trustees and it's technology books for children and it's all around reading for pleasure on Tech topics we we've got lots of different categories you know there's coding there's data there's careers inspiration and so much more and we recommend books we've got a whole program around technology books for children to as a way of bridging and addressing the digital divide so head on over to technology books for children to find out a bit more and if you'd like to donate please do because the donations are always welcome so you the charity going on I've got my book series going on and lots of other writing projects in the background and you've got fortnite I'm gonna tell my nephew about that because he's been really interested so we're gonna have a have some fun with that I look I'm not a gamer but I'm going we have we've designed it with that in mind so you might actually appreciate it if you have a go so so see see what you think you see I like that you said that designed with the user in mind I really like that yeah definitely you know developing a game to think who is going to use it because so many products are designed just they're just designed yeah absolutely yeah we've really got to consider those different users that might that might want to do it and our particular audience is is young people that aren't really accessing Traditional School at the moment where there might be school refusers they can't access School in a traditional way at all so we really want to appeal to that audience as well so that they've got a different way of learning that might sort of encourage them back into the to The Learning Experience so hopefully it will work with that that kind of audience too but yeah it's it's not designed for the typical gamer I guess there it's got gaming elements to it but it it it's really a bit it's it's more than that so it's worth giving it a go and just seeing what we've done that's that's nice a bit more of an inclusive experience which is obviously what you're what you stand for and what your company stands for absolutely I really like that now for everyone listening we are former Educators in previous lives we've both been teachers and we've worked in education space for years and with a new year Dawning upon us very soon I'm thinking about edtech Trends and what predictions you may have I've got a few which I'm going to sort of throw in there but we come to you first and I'll share some of my edtech predictions for 2025 and then maybe in the next series we can look back and see if we were right how far off the mark were we or rather how close we were yeah yeah definitely so I mean just bringing up like what I've just what I've just explained there so edtech I really do think that immersive Tech is going to be kicking off even more we're seeing it starting to grow and this it's definitely a huge industry that is going to explode over the next five years without a doubt so which is why it's really important that my company flip Computing really gets in there early to make sure that these Technologies are inclusive by Design and also we've got to really think about how we are ensuring that young people are getting those essential digital skills to design in this space so immersive learning the metaverse 3D space all those 3D skills that you need not not necessarily coding but being able to design in that 3D space as well and really think about how how you going to navigate that and and all that kind of stuff I think that definitely a trend that is going to grow and grow is this immersive learning experience um without a doubt there are there are tech companies doing it I've seen questionable things I've seen cool things I think probably the the thing that I would say is not a way to go forward is to just replicate a classroom I don't understand why this is happening so you go to some immersive learning experiences and it will be that there's a traditional classroom that if you've got a virtual headset or you're just doing it sort of on a 360 type video or whatever but you you go in and you sit at a a a table in a classroom and then you watch a video like a YouTube video or something on the board and then you'll answer a multiple choice question or something like that now I don't understand why when we've got such great immersive technology tools out there why are people thinking well the only model that exists for education is this traditional classroom like this with tables why are we bringing this approach to school into this amazing 3D world where there's so many wonderful things that we can do so it's really about yes this Tech is coming people are using it but let's think in a different way let's completely rethink education while we're doing that and make it exciting which is what we are trying to do with with our project with our with our immersive learning experience that we've created and really sort of rethink how we learn in this space there it's really important because we talk about our Learners being creative and fostering creativity and leading greater Innovations but then it may seem that some of the educators are not really thinking Crea creatively about the classroom and the classroom spaces what what what could be happening here is it the actual physical space that people can't imagine do we need to show more examples what is possible because not everyone is a sort of creative in that way so I think we need to bring more examples to the four to show what's possible and this is the impact of teaching in this different way I think lots of elements of the metaverse should be utilized in the classroom oh yeah definitely and I think that's it when people imagine the metaverse they are just almost trying to replicate the real world in 3D and I just think that's kind of a lazy way of doing it like there are so many more exciting ways of doing it that aren't just replicating what is now in in existent but in a 3D world like we we can really rethink how that works so I do think there's more Innovation needed in this space and and and it we are ready for this like we really I like that we ready for this yeah so it it feels very exciting and and we've got to talk to young people as well while we develop these these these things I'm skipping ahead because this is kind of my tip for later on so I'm going to do my tip now yeah yeah so it's like to to me it's absolutely essential that we co-design with young people when we're making things like and I think you were coming to that before as well it's like we design with young people not design for young people because a lot yeah a lot of what we imagine we we relate a lot of things to our own experience as a child and I grew up in the 80s and the 90s so I like I I sort of relate a lot of childhood learning to my own experiences and that is a mistake yes you can use some of the things but we've got to speak to young people when we're designing for them because the generations it's changed the world has changed for them and this is really important so when we're designing systems or creating solutions for anyone we need to have a diverse group of people so whether that's age diversity different where you are in a country Regional diversity you have ethnic diversity gender diversity we need that diversity that's really important to design systems and solutions that work for everyone so I'd say that's a really big tip and i' love to hear from our listeners on systems designed for them or systems designed not for them what are their experiences with different systems and coming back to the ettech trends I do think we're going to have more style Tik Tock classrooms so content in fiz chunks where we can learn quickly get to the point and then we can discuss other things like the impact of what we've learned and apply also what we've learned so I would say Tik Tok Trends also generative AI that is everywhere and how is generative AI going to be used in education now I know here in the the UK government the Department of Education has got a few white pap papers on the adoption of AI and Genera AI within education but I think there's so much further to go with this topic because every time I go online there's a new AI tool which ones are we going to use in education which ones are suitable for Education yeah what training do we need to give to teachers we can't just expect this to be used it hasn't been tested in in this way what do the impact Upon Our Learners what do we want so I think new conversations are arising about what is education how do we educate and what tools do we use to educate so that that's one of my Ed edtech Trends I think we should be looking at as we go forward there's a lot coming out around data and data visualization so teaching our young people a lot more about that whole area and we with the charity we've started looking at books that focus on data so look out for that next year we're featuring a whole lot of books around data data visualization using tools to then visualize that data that's really really powerful and how could that be used across lots of subject areas with our young people and then also within our own businesses yeah definitely I mean yeah we love we love data visit at flip Computing and our our flock XR tool that we're that we're creating has got some capabilities there for showing data in the 3D space so that's quite exciting that we're developing that and hopefully that's going to grow next year so that's another like Trend I guess that we can start looking at yeah I also think the whole idea of the virtual classroom is going to become more and more because we've got teacher shortages around the world we certainly got them here in England and perhaps there is a space where we can have Educators who are just being beamed into classrooms and we utiliz izing that expert knowledge in a different way and we have facilitators within the classroom who can then basically facilitate when we have the expert knowledge coming in so I think there's lots of different ways we can start reimagining the classroom experience and also work with young people and talk to them and then reiterate come back with an improved version of the classroom and what it's like so hopefully we start seeing these trials and better classrooms but sticking with the whole AI subject AI detection tools I've been seeing a lot of writing on a medium platform which I coincidentally have started writing and putting some of my content on medium a lot of writing regarding whether or not AI detection tools are working because you've got loads of experience you write an article and then you find that you run it through an AI detection tool and it says that this 50% AI generated and you think it isn't I just wrote that so how have these AI detection tools been trained so I'm really really curious I've got one open on my desktop all the time because I am looking at the responses that they're given because we've learned to write in a certain way yeah I know that many journalists are saying they've been trained in a certain way and then the AI detection tool has also been trained in a c way and now we've got this being told it's it's AI generated and that can really cause a lot of problems when you've spent years perfecting your craft yeah exactly and if the AI has been trained on your writing because you don't I mean who abely yes then it could come up like that and we we have seen we have seen cases as well particularly for some autistic Learners who might write in a programmatic way that might feel like it's been written by an a generator to but it hasn't and there's been some cases of universities where the AI fraud detection of the tool has said yes this is AI but absolutely it wasn't and it's been proven that it wasn't but imagine that situation you're an autistic learner you've spent all this time doing your work and then that tool has said no it's all it's all been done by AI you failed your coursework because of that and then you have to bring a case to the university to prove that you've written it yourself all this extra energy that's having to be spent there in in fighting your case like it's really not a good situation to be in like these tools are not good enough yet to make such an important impact on somebody's life so so we've got to really really be careful that so they they're great as kind of like a supportive tool as a as a CO whatever in that kind of thing to help you out but we can't be using them right now to be making important decisions about people's lives because we are nowhere near ready for that and I don't know that we ever will be to be honest with all the bias that's in there I I really don't know how we're ever going to get to a point where the AI isn't biased like how on Earth are we going to get it to be like that we can't because it's being trained something pre-existing so it's being trained with the biases we currently have in society it makes me wonder as you're saying that if the way in which we assess in education for example is going to change yeah so perhaps we need need to have more conversations and I'm sure there's been some work going on in this space how do we assess is this through asking questions but then some people don't communicate very well verbally it's more of a written response I think it's really really tricky it's certainly one to ponder I would say yeah absolutely without a doubt I mean like portfolios might be a way to go but and but and then but then I do think a human would need to look at that portfolio of work just you know to decide but yeah it really is a hard one and and it yeah it is something we just can't be in a situation where an AI is making a life decision absolutely can't no no I agree no we can't do that but I tell you what I'm also thinking about so a few things in the news I've seen recently and again I think there's perhaps a lot of AI being used used in the background here and it's around returnless refunds okay so what is this what what is a returnless ref I saw this in LinkedIn news and it it drew me in I was qu I was quite curious and effectively you order an item you want to return it but you don't actually return it okay but you still get refunded so you keep the item that's the bottom line so my thought was well if that's going to happen what's the other side of this is this going is there going to be a rise and fraud probably there probably already is there is because there was a case where recently where some there was an Amazon Seller and they were just getting lots of requests for refunds and this is where people can just say I didn't receive it or I want to return it and this they just get refunded the money so I think there's something there about how people behave and how systems are designed request a refund then you just get your money back yeah and I'm assuming it's if it's returnless refund there might be a a situation where it costs too much money to return the item so because of that that's why and then you've also got to think about the impact on waste because where are those items sitting then so if you if you didn't want it but they're not letting you return it where are you putting that in your home is it going in the bin is it going going in a pile in the garage where is it going so is it a genuine item you you don't want to have and then got this waste problem or you just want to keep it and not pay for it so there two really yeah yeah I'd love to hear anyone's experience of this and what you actually think is going on because again it's another way in which our society is changing I think we need to explore this a bit further which is hence why it was trending and why drew me in because it's just a bit strange there was also I'm going to digress here it was over Halloween and there was a seller I think he was in the US he sold lots of Halloween outfits great the day after Halloween he received hundreds of I didn't want this item it wasn't fit for the purpose right but people have bought this their Halloween outfits warn them and then wanting to return them how does an online seller cope with that that's actually not fair so there there got to be something built into systems where it's non-refundable or you buy it ahead of a certain time or you have to rent it it's going a different model I feel like that kind of thing has always happened but there's always been a human aspect to it so like some people it like in the past before online shopping was around they would buy things for New Year's Eve or what whatever and they'd keep the tag in and then they'd take it back after new's Eve and they'd get their refund and try to make sure that it doesn't smell or have a stain on it or whatever and they'd get a refund but there was a human aspect to that so people were I guess the majority of people were less likely to do that because you've then got to go to a person and you effectively lie to that person in order to get your refund so when it's like a human thing a human experience people are put off from doing that because the average person I would imagine doesn't want to lie to someone to get money back exactly yeah but when it becomes a digital thing and it's a faceless automated system people are much more likely to do that because it's a faceless automated system and you can't see the human being behind that you don't know the impact that you are making there so I would imagine more people are like to do that because it's an automated faceless thing so behavior is changing in this Digital World behavior is changing and that is interesting from observation and also I guess from a research point of view changing human behaviors as a result of digitalization yeah really interesting okay we're now at a sort of Midway point of podcast where we share tips because at the beginning I mentioned it's our Journeys our observations and tips on our lives and what we we're experiencing and we hope that they will help you too our listeners so yeah I know you already started with a tip and we'll add a bit more to it and I've got a couple more tips so lookout for 2025 because one of the things I do some coaching and I've got a coaching book with tips coming out and I thought I'd pull a couple out and so it's about being self-aware what I mean about this is professionally if you were to scroll your say your LinkedIn feed or Twitter or blue sky and have a look at it what story are you communicating to someone that doesn't know you what do you want that to look like so that self-awareness professionally and also I'd say personally is really really important so self-awareness is my number one tip it also transfers into say an inperson meeting if you've met someone for the first time what's that first impression what are they going to leave that meeting with how are they going to think about you they say that's really important and then if you come back to so this is tip two sharing what you stand for so again come back to say if you were scrolling my LinkedIn feed would you get an essence of me and what I stand for and you should you share what you stand for and own it so yeah I think that's really really important as we navigate our life our career Journeys it's who are you yeah that's yeah I think really important so what what what tips have you got for us this week yeah well I because I already started saying really about the whole code design thing and involving whatever you whatever you're designing I mean my main my main work I guess is learning designer I I design a lot of learning experiences for all sorts of different situations and different age groups and it's really important that you co-design with those users you don't you don't put your too much of your own sort of I guess bias onto onto a resource or whatever you you really get to know what your users want and what they're going to enjoy and what they're going to get involved with what's going to make them motivated to complete whatever activity or whatever it is that that you've made so yeah so we actually went to a school in sford earlier this week piloted our Island our storytelling with music island with with them and we asked them lots of co-design type questions so thinking about the characters the experience the types of help you get in in the game what what do you want that do you want tips do you want help as you're going and we got all sorts of real insights into into that what they would expect and how we can change it and update it so now we've got we've got lots of work to do to to implement yeah but we are so glad that we did that and that their insights were just so valuable because we we pitched quite a lot of it right but then there's some things that they've really helped us with and how to make it better for that audience so it's really really important that that you do that when you're designing anything really is is really think about your users and get to know them design things with not for them is a really really useful tip I think I think that's brilliant I think that will lead to better solutions for real people yeah absolutely yeah yeah 100% no when we were talking earlier about the returnless refunds it really made me think about eway because we're in a Teck space I think about e-ways we're also in that time of year we're coming up to Christmas and there's going to be lots of gadgets and what happens to the disused gadgets do they then sit in a drawer and just live there or do they end up at the local waste recycling how do we manage our electronic waste yeah and we're just coming off the back of cop the conference of the parties 29 which was in Baku there was real emphasis on education as part of the climate issue and E was is a contributor to The Climate issue I just wonder what you thought about e e waste are you aware of your local E-Waste recycling facilities where where do we sit with the whole E-Waste thing yeah I mean we yeah we I know where my e waste recycling facilities are I don't think I've used them recently because I haven't really like cleaned anything out or anything like that I mean to be fair because I'm a bit of a geeky person like I tend to keep the older stuff for it's good isn't it keeping the old stuff yes yeah yeah so I've got my very first Game Boy the original I've still got that I would dream of like putting that into recycling retro vintage it's mine and I've got my first snares as well my Super Nintendo you can tell I love Nintendo but yeah so like all those and my old phones I've still got those although like iPhone wise I've stuck with the quite old one now I think this is about four years on I don't know which one it is but like old iPhones I've passed down to my kids so that they can get used to having a phone and all that kind of stuff so I haven't bought new ones because what's the point you know what I trade mine in to get money off the next one yeah yeah yeah that makes sense recycle properly at that point but there is there is a lot of e and I think it's really important to have that conversation yeah with within schools and I also noticed that there's going to be a human development day now I actually hope this has in fact and we're talking about education as a tool in communities in the tech activity book there's a e-w activity to consider what is e-w basically we're all generating e-w and where does it go so it's yeah it's part of the conversation that I think we need to continually have but I just thought I'd bring that up because it was last year we actually did a conference together and I do a lightning talk around climate change and how that can be fully integrated into the computer science and a Computing classroom to help our young people to consider the impact of ew so if you want to book me for that head to my website it's a very good tool oh thank you yeah it was so yeah I just s to mention that and also it was last night I received an email I want to say which company it is it's a very big tech company telling me that the some of my software was going to be Obsolete and and I thought all right so that means I have to upgrade so that's another aspect in this whole Tech world and then you also got I was playing with my phone and it seemed like it was slowing down I thought oh does that mean I've now got to buy yet another new device and I just thought hang on why can't I just use a tool that's that's working and just keep using it what there is this constant you've got to buy something new you've got to upgrade and it is actually quite annoying and frustrating yeah things things really aren't built to last I mean like I remember my mom had a tumble dryer that must have lasted 35 years or something and it worked it was fine there's nothing wrong with it but now if you buy a tumble dryer proba probably two three years you know it's just it's really not good like that these things don't last and then it's not as easy to get repaired these days as well because we are losing that expertise in in our communities aren't we% yeah because a lot of the time if you want to get an electrician or whoever to come to your house if it's just like some minor fix it's really hard to get them in because they're just so in demand and they don't know they don't know they working out yeah yeah problem solving how do you solve this problem what what do you need to think about and yeah yeah yeah so we're losing those skills to fix things ourselves and I think that's a it's it's really quite nice now we've got like repair cafes but they're very sort of sporadic you don't know where one is they might pop up in a church or something randomly but actually I think in every Community we need a repair space do you've just joged my mind one of our trustees area she rans a repair Cafe because Shar the story didn't she elderly person who'd come in with about four phones and basically she kept running out of space data I'm not quite sure what it was she was running out of whatever it was she needed and every time she went to the shop they sold her a new phone as the solution yeah as opposed to saying well okay we can buy you can buy a bit more space or you can delete but so she had four phones and the poor woman just said please please help me I don't know what to do with these four devices now that's basically someone has been taken advantage of but we really need those repair cafes in the community and education really important but yeah I almost think though it should be something that the council that the local Council has like they have a space and that's where you because I mean you've got to think like before it becomes ew is there something we can do to yeah yeah bring it back to life so it can go back into the home and carried on for a few more years like why are we just assuming right it's broken straight to ew there should almost be that interim step of okay well how do we repair that and if it was a community thing I'm not saying we should increase our council tax to no no no but that probably is a service that could be just to make I say I say the council just because that's how you bring it into the community and it becomes a specific a a systemic thing that happens across across the country as part of our systems that we have like our public systems so that's why I say that because that's that's how you would do that I mean there's lots of amazing repair cafes out there but they're very Grassroots Leed and know I know what you mean the energy that goes into doing that I mean it's it's incredible the people that do it but the amount of energy that you have to put into that and it's intends to be thing and then you got to raise funds for that and all that kind of stuff but if it was part of our system that of running our country this this repair repair before you replace kind of situation that's a there isn't it repair before you replace yeah that's Ser trade bar righta now before you replace definitely L your local MP I think that's what we need absolutely yeah I'd love to hear from our listeners on repair cafes and their experiences of them I think really important now I'm G to move us on and this has been I've seen this coming up quite a bit and it's something I've wondered about also and it's the rise of the digital menu now oh yes when we go to a restaurant generally we go there with others and we're chatting and you know it's conversation and we're living in an age where there's less conversation and people are glued to their phones so when you go to a restaurant time to put away the phones and talk oh no no now you're being presented with a menu and then you've got to get your phone out and you've got to then navigate a whole menu on a tiny screen scrolling you've also then got to log on to the Wi-Fi give them your data 100% so what's that about so it's just baffling that we're expected to have a device so yet again there's more we've got to spend more money to have a device at works yeah we've to connect and we've got to navigate this menu which could be quite small yeah yeah see and I think it's doing sort of people out of jobs from coming to you the table and talking with you so your serving staff being done out of jobs it's also then now we've introduced the phone into the whole conversation so now we're showing each other phones and then potentially you've got notifications coming up and it's sucking time away and I would love anyone in the restaurant industry to comment on our videos and let us know if you agree with digital menus and why or if you don't because I don't get it I would just like a good oldfashioned paper menu or laminated menu which you can wipe off and it could be reused I just don't get it yeah I think it depends where you're going so like Nando I have kind of got used to it now now like that you because I've got got an account that and that's quite it's like a fast service restaurant so I kind of expect it it's okay there but if I'd gone somewhere for like a treat as a nice sort of the whole restaurant experience where you want that different level of service I certainly wouldn't want want it at that point I don't think and so I I think it kind of depends on the type of restaurant that you're going to and the and whether you want something really quick or you want you're there for sort of the Leisure experience of eating out I think that that kind of helps knowing that context well you've got my mind erasing that nandos I have been using their digital menu this typically tends to be if I'm traveling and I've just pop into aando so I'm on my own first of all yes and I order and I would say the Nando's app is actually really good it is good yeah to navigate yeah yeah yeah yeah so that brings us sort of back to what you were talking about design some of these apps I am lost oh yeah some of's going on yeah and and like you don't quite you're trying to find items that you might want but you can't and there's not a search or there is a search but it doesn't quite pick up the exact word like there's not a generalized keyword search you have to have the exact keyword in order You Can't customize it easily and also what I've noticed is when we've gone out with older family members they can't navigate these digital menus so who is a digital menu aimed at because I'm not entirely convinced it's been tested with older people no definitely not and I tell you I tell you you've just prompted my you've just jogged my memory now because kind of linked to that there I I recently went to the cinema to see Wicked yay I love absolutely love that with my with with my daughter and we I hadn't been to this Cinema for ages it was an odan Cinema and they've changed it now so that you have to order your food and drink on a screen okay and it's not obvious either so I went to like I haven't been there for about eight years so I go straight to the counter to order oh no you have to go over there to order so walk all the way back and then everyone's not queuing properly for these screens and I'm already stressed and worked up because like where's the queue and then you get to the screen and it I know as you get older your fingers do not work properly on touch screens they've actually done studies into this really okay like they genuinely have so I'm like there tapping on the screen it's not get and I'm getting more and more angry and I was like I said to my daughter you press the you press the screen because I know it's going to work for your fingers and yes it did yeah right so your fingers is that what yeah I've got old fingers and she was like and she was like no it's because you're tapping too hard and it maybe that's what I was doing and I was like well how would you know that like I'm getting angry so I'm tapping it harder yeah there's a valid point because I've got rain noes so sometimes my fingers are a bit Co colder yeah doesn't recognize me taing yeah yeah so it must say there's a lot of design going on here I don't want to be in my mind it's stroking a screen touched yeah yeah yeah I don't like I don't like it it upsets me yeah and every time I use the the checkout thing at Tesco I get I again I get so angry because I never understand where you have to put the item I want put it on the wrong side and then it doesn't register and then it goes you need to call the manager or something you need an arrow that way that way like like I just want to buy my thing and like you can't go and buy it because you've got Le you got too little items so you have to go for I'm just like this is not this is not good for society I mean I know Tech I know how to use Tech I'm very good with tech I Design Tech yeah I can't use these things so what what is it like for people who are techy yeah so oh gosh I'm getting it I'm getting it all worked up my I'm getting so worked up that my dog my dog is going W what are you doing you're get I can see your dog's tail away you know what we've had a really good chat today and I do hope our listeners you know leave comments or write into us and let us know their thoughts on these really important topics which are shaping and changing our lives now before I come to the end I would I'm want to do some Shameless self-promotion okay go for it it's regarding our podcast so Guardian has got a call for people to nominate best podcasts of 2024 I'd love it if you'd nominate us yes yes please do yeah so sharing the link and we're just two women who got together and started talking about our Journeys through Tech so we're on Spotify we've got the Tik Tok clips and we do also post to Instagram also so I'll show the link please do nominate us that's another tip I would add in there self-promotion yeah but fly your own flag Champion yourself you are your best adver so please do nominate us we'd love it very very much so before we go thank you once again Rebecca would you mind sharing your contact details where can we anyone get in touch with you yeah so the best place to get in touch with me is in on LinkedIn so if you search for Rebecca Frank's on LinkedIn you should be able to see my face and and find me on on that on there that's the best place to get in touch with me yeah absolutely perfect and you can also find me on LinkedIn also as Beverly Clark and as I mentioned we've got the podcast on the different platforms Tech Journey Insight thank you so much for joining us today and we will speak with you and share our insights in another episode of tech Journey Insight thank you for listening thank you

2024-12-07 13:15

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