Remarkable Insights | Brain Computer Interface: science or science fiction
Welcome everyone to remarkable insights my name is Pete Horsley I'm the founder of remarkable we are an early-stage tech accelerator for startups that are creating technology for disability we are part of Cerebral Palsy Alliance and we have our principal partner is icare and we have partnerships with Telstra, Vivcourt and Microsoft as well Remarkable is where hopefully technology meets human potential and we see a real gap that exists in the place that technology can play in the lives of people with disability we mainly do that through a 14-week accelerator program where we support early stage startups commercializing their technology and getting them on the path to getting their technology into the hands of the people that need it most I want to acknowledge that i'm on the land of the Guringai people this is their land it was never ceded and it's always sacred and I pay my respects to elders past present and emerging and to whoever you are joining us from as well and the traditional lands that you're meeting on also pay my respects to elders past and present there also also to pay my respects to the disability advocates who have come before us have fought for the rights of people with disability over many many decades and um we stand on their shoulders now in doing the work that we do we have both a privilege and a responsibility because of the work that they've done so today's conversation about remarkable remarkable insights conversation is about brain-computer interface and we know that there's significant opportunity to leverage technical innovation to drive an inclusive future and we want to ask the question about who's getting left behind as technology accelerates around us and we want to ask as well how can we start to create an inclusive now rather than just an inclusive future so for anyone wanting to join this conversation on social media please use the our social media handles at remarkabletech and also use the hashtag remarkableinsights um the event has live captioning by Otter AI you can make use of that um using the live transcript we also have a separate um AI transcript that you can um click on on your screen as well um and today we also have uh um sign interpretation by Taryn Coswello so welcome Taryn as well today we're joined by Nicholas Opie from synchron um presently in lockdown in Melbourne Australia we've got Beata Jarosiewicz from Neuralink in San Francisco and Zuby Onwuta from think and zoom in Austin Texas um welcome to each of you uh today uh some of the people on this call are very familiar with uh what what brain-computer interface is um but for some of us it might be relatively new so i'm going to ask Beata if you've been at the forefront of BCI for quite some time um working with a number of different organizations including uh someone who's a good friend of Cerebral Palsy Alliance and remarkable lee hochberg and the team at braingate so do you mind just giving us an explanation of what BCI is please? i would be happy to um can you guys see my slides okay hear me okay um so let's see i'm sorry it's got this live captioning thing at the top there we go okay so um just a brief overview of uh motor brain-computer interfaces which are meant to help people with paralysis to be able to control their environment and communicate um so like every cell in your body uh brain cells also called neurons have a voltage across their membrane and when they communicate with one another they rapidly change their voltage over the course of um just a millisecond or so um and we can spy on these so-called action potentials or the firing of these neurons to try to interpret what the brain is trying or what the brain indicates that the person's movement intention is at any given moment in time um for example so this is a picture of a human brain on the top left here where the left side is the front and the right side is the back and the red strip there the strip labeled in red is called the motor cortex this is the part of the brain that controls voluntary movement um different parts of the motor cortex if you look at this blown-up cross-section represent different parts of the body so if you record from the neuron in the hand or arm area of motor cortex you might find activity that represents the person wanting to make particular movements of the hand or arm and here's an example of a neuron that we recorded when i was at brain gate from participant kathy hutchinson um the technician is going to be asking her to imagine that she's opening and closing her hand and see if you can um hear a difference in the activity of this neuron it's going to sound like little popping sounds relaxed imagine you're opening your hand relax close your hand relax open your hand so you can tell whenever the person is imagining opening our hand the neuron kind of goes crazy and when she imagines closing it the neuron gets very quiet and then with relax it's somewhere in between so you can take a neuron like this and just look at its firing rate in small windows of time and use that information to open and close a prosthetic hand for example just by asking the person to imagine that they're opening and closing their own hand so here's a video of us doing that with another brain gate participant matt naval so that's a very basic example of a brain-computer interface um but other neurons in motor cortex have encoding for particular imagined movements in different directions in space so for example one neuron might encode movements imagined leftward movements another neuron might um increase its firing rate when the person imagines moving their hand up and if you record from a lot of neurons at the same time which a lot of brain computer interfaces do um and you know the preferred directions of all of the different neurons that you're recording from you can look at their firing rates at each moment in time and figure out from the pattern across the neurons which direction the person intends to move and then use that movement information that you've decoded to for example move a computer cursor on a computer screen this is the um the basic explanation or the intuition for how a brain computer interface works and of course you can use that to allow a person with paralysis to um to point and basically use a point-and-click mouse with her brain as though she were controlling an actual computer mouse and this is another brain gate participant t6 who is typing an email to my colleague Paul Nuyujukian and using a brain computer interface um and then just for context at braingate or sorry at neurolink where i currently am we're trying to make a fully implantable and cosmetically invisible brain computer interface with lots and lots of channels that will allow a person to be able to control devices in a very similar way just by thinking about how they want to move that's the end of my little intro i will stop sharing thank you thank you so much you should be a teacher Beata i feel like thank you i feel like we we have a really good um base understanding of the kind of technology we're talking about here and just to give some warning to our participants today that um that we probably might also be mentioning other things like EEG, and FMRI, intercourtical uh neuroprosthetics and other other kind of terminologies hopefully we'll try and explain those if we do mention those on the way through um so we know that that BCI isn't necessarily uh kind of reading our thoughts um but it's reading the brain's activity when there's intentional thought typically towards a physical activity i want us first to explore the use of of some of these cases picking up the signals and then using them to control something outside the body so nick firstly congratulations on the 40 million series b capital raise earlier this year and already you've been doing human trials in australia but i know that you've just started or just got approvals for human trials in in the us as well so huge steps towards your own commercialization so congratulations for that um what what excites you about the potential of this technology particularly for those people who might be living with a disability yeah i think it's just fascinating how the field's grown uh certainly you know from some of the work Beata mentioned in in Braingate back in the day the the ability to access information from within the brain extract it and then convert it into signals that can be used by people with paralysis to control uh computers or robotic hands or or vehicles being robots and and wheelchairs and so forth uh it is just incredible and it's really fantastic to see the field progress to a stage where um it's starting to you know turn from early stage research showing that it's it's feasible and possible to to things like what we're doing where uh it's being implanted into people and being used by them to enhance their their quality of life i think it's uh it's amazing to to watch the progression and you know there's early stages a long way to go but it's it's fascinating to watch that's brilliant and and Zuby you didn't start your career kind of in this space um uh you kind of came to this technology through a slightly different track uh can you tell us the story of how you started working with bci sure uh thanks so much Pete and thanks everybody uh for being here so yeah i'm currently in Austin Texas USA and um yeah i kind of fell into this and now i'm on a journey of creating a better world for people with disabilities so i started out just wanting to be a physician just want to be a doctor and i did that pre-med and i was in the u.s military but within two short years i went from seeing the eye chart from roughly 10 feet away or more to now down to just one foot away it was dramatic i became legally blind from a form of Juvenile macular degeneration called Stargardt and um at that time once you hit your 2200 it's supposed to plateau one stop but mine never stopped and so um by the age of 21 i had to scramble for plan c as i had to exit the military and exit my medical studies so i chose engineering and i struggled all the way through i had the opportunity of working for some fortune 500 companies and so i immersed deeply into software engineering but then uh within that journey i ended up at the school for the blind learning non-visual skills so you can imagine it was a very very tough and challenging time and then several years after that i spent some more times at no vision all kinds of ophthalmologists 300 of them and we discovered that i actually have three genetic mutations affecting my retina so that explained why um i was having all the fluctuations and unstable vision but all throughout this time i kept thinking of how can i create something that could not only help myself but also millions of people like myself and so that's what threw me into neuroscience that's how i discovered brain control and now i'm on this journey of critiquing better worlds for people with disabilities and tell us a little bit about the technology that you've created so far so think and zoom leverages the power of brain waves but it does that knowing invasively for so from a wearable BCI which is a sensor that touches you know outside of your head and just like a Beata explained we harness you know the electrical impulses coming from the brain and we've been able to develop a prototype to show that it is possible to look think and zoom in to see better so essentially in layman's terms you can now use your brain to influence magnification so you don't no longer have to use your hands or manually control you cannot think and zoom in to see better it's brilliant fantastic Beata um earlier this year your boss i don't know if we're able to call him this but um Elon Musk announced that a monkey could play with video games using um its mind um this is kind of using the signals to control uh something external like what you explained before and while some parts of this technology are new um some of the applications of this this kind of technology have been used for decades through devices like cochlear implants that were also starting to put signals that were also used to put signals back into the brain as well so um Elon's also been known to say that BCI was integral for humans not to be outpaced by artificial intelligence so it seems to be that it's one thing to get signals out of the brain to control an external device but then another thing to i guess use those signals or to put signals back into the brain so i guess my question to you is what's the potential of this of this technology to put signals back into the brain and what could that mean for people with disability and also i'd love you to mention some of the work that you've already done with another company through epilepsy as well sure um so that's a very big question but as you mentioned you know cochlear implants provide a really good example of a very promising way to put information into the brain that the brain can then learn um over not too long a period of time to make sense of and make use of for people with um hearing disorders um of course that the resolution of the input that you get from a cochlear implant is nowhere near the actual cochlea but um with the brain's plasticity um you know the brain has this amazing ability that if um if a source of input into it contains information about the external world that it's useful to the person or to the animal it's going to learn how to make use of that information um and there's um of course there's also visual prosthetics under development for you know stimulating the visual cortex with the device like ours and there's also of course retinal prosthetics um other things like that under development that are also very promising as for um oh and you also mentioned with epilepsy you know recording from um i used to work at a company called NeuroPace also that um that makes the the RNS systems responsive neurostimulation so it listens for um brain activity indicating that the person is about to have a seizure um coming from the seizure focus and sends some brief electrical stimulation to try to normalize that activity and prevent the seizure from progressing and that also works tremendously well for people with medically refractory epilepsy um as for writing in the kind of information Elon is talking about where you want to basically be able to do a google search in your brain or be able to you know communicate with one another without having to speak um that's going to take um i think it's going to take a lot of either like better understanding of the brain that then we currently have or a big leap in technology that i currently can't envision but it is definitely a goal of neurolink a long-term goal that's brilliant and nick um just in terms of the work of of Synchron um give us an update on kind of where things are up to uh now and what what the next steps in terms of um some of those human trials are going to look like uh sure so synchron at the moment is as you mentioned uh continuing uh human clinical trial in australia and and branching out to the us um our technology is a little bit different to to a lot of the other existing brain machine interfaces in that we uh came up with a way where you didn't have to perform any invasive um remove craniotomy's removal of the skull you don't need to do that to to implant our device to the brain uh using blood vessels as the you know the naturally occurring pathway to get to the different regions so uh through a small incision like an injection in the neck we can put our device up and to the motor cortex as we are mentioned before uh and once it's there the the patients can you know use their brain to think about activities that they would like to perform and and the device can obviously pick that up and wirelessly transfer those out of the body to uh to be interpreted and used to control external equipment um i think certainly you know for us continuing the clinical trial we uh when we started the company about 10 years ago uh our vision really was to go beyond uh amazing research that everyone on the panel here is doing and get it into a product that can be used by people um to help them with their with their lives and to help them and their carers perform different activities so uh we're still on that pathway to you know start of a a long journey um you know a lot of regulatory approvals and fda testing and needs to be needs to be achieved and and certainly we're well on the way to getting a product out to those that can use it uh with the idea being that for people who have um a through damage or disease a functioning brain but a body that isn't uh isn't connected so they can't move their arms or limbs um spinal cord injury for example motor neurone disease or als in in the us and other different conditions that prevent the signals from going from the brain to to their body and you know we're planning on helping those people and certainly trying to help them in in a way that you know is surgically non-invasive very minimally invasive and and can be used sort of out of the box to perform communication uh as well as other activities of daily living so it's it's exciting and you know there's a lot of people coming into the um into this into this field at the moment which is which is fantastic and and certainly i think there's a bright future for for this technology and the people that will be using it whether they be the the users themselves or their carers or their families or whoever it might be that's brilliant and and i want to stay with you just um you mentioned there kind of some of the regulatory pathways and obviously this is all a journey towards uh commercialization and and being able to have this available out in the market and that um you know the 40 million dollars of investment you just got is people banking on you to be able to get something in the commercial market eventually i want you to um kind of just talk us through a couple of the um the kind of critical points on that regulatory journey so far what what did that look like um and yeah i guess we've got we've got other founders on the on the call today that are perhaps on a similar kind of regulatory journey so give us a bit of a picture of what that's been looking like for you sure well uh well certainly you know one of the main things you need to uh to prove is that it's that it's safe and that you know that's for for all technology whether it's uh invasive minimally invasive non-invasive you need to prove that it that it's safe and that the patients that it's intended for um you know won't be put at additional additional uh risk by by having this technology uh and so that's one of them and the fda is obviously very big on on making sure that uh there are a huge amount of tests that need to be conducted and shown to to demonstrate that it's safe for implantation uh and once it has been implanted obviously the the next step is to show uh that it works that it's reliable and that it can perform how it's intended to perform and allow the the user to um communicate with it for example if that if that's the goal or to control a prosthetic limb or whatever that might be so so there's a lot of um a lot of work you know in the background once you've once you've made the technology and even once you've got the surgical procedure right and implanted it there's a lot of work that needs to go on in in continuing to to demonstrate and prove that it's safe and functional and and will continue to be reliable over the the lifespan of the patient and i think one of the things that's amazing is um with all the technologies that the brain machine faces seem to be achieving is getting commands out of the brain and what happens at the other end there's a lot of work also going on you know how you can make a better technology that allows people to to use these devices properly so making robotic limbs and making exoskeletons in wheelchairs there's a whole whole range of other applications that people can use that are they're only saying to be built as well which is you know which is fantastic so it means you know the people that are making the implantables now have a lot more things to connect to so so the users can control a lot more of their environment that's super interesting um yeah thinking about the kind of marketplace of available technologies that that might need to be there in the future so for you that the regulatory in environments kind of a little bit different for those kind of inter intracortical devices so ones that go inside the body versus those using neuro neural decoding like EEG so you might want to give a little explanation of of eeg but what have been some of the significant milestones in your own commercialization journey yeah like nick has uh you know uh given details the intracortical is are very heavy with regulation right because it's going into the human body but uh for the EEG which we're leveraging a head wearable device so it doesn't go uh into the human body so we're not uh looking at that length of time and all those lengthy clinical trials so we envisage is going to be shorter and in terms of some of the milestones we've achieved well we've gone from just concept an idea to uh various prototypes we have a prototype that runs on a smart glass which is what we envision in the future something very lightweight and portable that you can just wear we also have a version that works on a smartphone and in the future we hope to add one that works on your laptop and we also um in order to lower the barrier of entry because people as you can imagine ask a lot of questions about you know is this real or something else we created a game out of it um that fortunately won an award at apple uh worldwide developer conference so it's a brain controlled game and we also earned a patent so these are some of the uh milestones that we've achieved but we also do face some uh barriers and and challenges as uh most investors still do not understand the disability landscape very well and so uh these are still some of the things we're trying to tackle to move forward yeah that's brilliant now we've had a question come through on the chat um asking are these devices suitable for people with cerebral palsy so um other than Nick or Beat do you want to take that one yeah another thing i can start off Zuby Beata i i think in general yes but it really depends on on the type uh you know certainly for the centroid and and the technology we're developing in the first case uh provided they have a uh a functional brain and and that meaning that they can uh they can think and and cause the the cells that you was talking about before to to function um it doesn't have to be everywhere but just some of their brain can respond normally and that they can have intentional thoughts then yes you can you can acquire these and they can be used to to assist but but i suppose that there are going to be some conditions uh where parts of the brain responsible for arms or limbs may not may not work that might be okay you might not need that specific region to be working but but certainly um you know i think it's it's a case-by-case uh sort of scenario where their physicians will be able to to assess whether this is something that would be suitable for them yeah um yeah i think nick stated it perfectly just um if you know the part of motor cortex that controls movement is still responsive in a way that um communicates the person's movement intent then these kinds of devices could be used um or or some part of the motor motor system doesn't necessarily have to be cortical um but as long as yeah movement is still represented in neural activity then something like this could work awesome and we encourage you to put some um that's for uh for brain machine faces and brain control and if there are other issues with other parts of the body there's there are technologies um you know many people around here as well that can um directly uh be involved with the you know the damaged limb or the part of the the nerve in in the limb or something like that uh so it doesn't necessarily need to to come from the brain and there's a lot of other groups and and a lot of other research and work that's going on to look at um you know how you can how you can really replace anything that's that's lost or damaged and so the field of biomedical engineering is certainly taking off and uh you know i think there's unlimited possibilities in that regard yeah we've seen some incredible research happening at brown university where they're essentially kind of uh taking signals from the spinal cord and and looking at reinserting those essentially back into a damaged spinal cord below where a break might have happened so it's just there's an incredible um kind of forefronts i guess for so much of this technology control bionics is another organization here in australia that's done some work around taking any any kind of um signal from a muscle and being able to turn that into a control button as well um i guess i wanted to and this one we might um yes i encourage people to put questions that they've got um into the q a panel down below and we'll try and get to as many of those as we can one of the questions i do want to ask each of you is if you could just briefly touch on what are some of the ethical questions that that you think that we should be asking ourselves in this work do you want to start with that one Zuby sure um in terms of ethics right i think we always have to remember that the piece of technology is to serve the human right and we always have to do our very best to put the human first and then in trying to do that we have to look at the cross section of humanity um one and it pinches me to even touch on this is the event that happened at the paralympics right where the blind athlete was hit by a self-driving train because that wasn't considered and so if you think about the paralympic that should be the haven for people with disabilities right everything this real issue have been covered but then the self-driving train which is great but then this one angle wasn't covered and you know it was disastrous so i think in terms of ethics rather than even trying to think too hard just remember no matter how great the technology is hey we're trying to serve humanity first and then b let's look at all humanity and be inclusive so that's my take on that that's brilliant thanks Zuby Beata um yeah just to add on to that i i guess i would say another thing that needs to be um thought about carefully is the the fact that a lot of these technologies right now are meant to be assistive for people with disabilities restoring function um but now and then also going forward if these ever become kind of enhancement technologies making sure that they're available to everyone not just people that are wealthy um you know make sure that you your insurance model includes you know medicare or medicaid or whatever just um to make sure whoever needs them is able to get them that's brilliant thank you nick yeah look i think what uh Zuby and Beata says spot on we gotta really make sure as everyone who's working in this field does that we put the patients first and we really have their best interest in mind uh i think there are a lot of ethical issues like you mentioned that haven't been thought of as Zuby and yes and certainly time needs to be spent making sure that all covers all bases are covered where you know where possible but there are new things that arise as new technologies arise and i think as long as the the researchers are aware uh and continue to be motivated towards helping the the human condition then then i think uh i think we're in a good place with with people like this on the panel who are in charge of this sort of tech um so one of the questions has come through a little bit more of a technical question or a couple of these are so how does your technology deal with signal noise and particularly for the intracortical devices so those inside the body and the signal loss over time due to local inflammatory response so you might just want to give a little bit of context about about what happens when we put foreign objects inside the human body and i know nick and and beata you'll have different responses to this i can start that one off um so at Braingate we've had participants that were implanted for over five years in whom the device was still working well enough that the neural signals weren't quite as beautiful as they were in that example neuron that i showed you guys earlier um but we can still get information out of the residual signals um even though you know there's a little bit of a gliosis response where the glial cells that sort of the blue that holds the neurons together in your brain um tend to kind of wrap around and protect the rest of the brain from these devices that we've been planted in in them um it makes it it makes the signal a little bit smaller over time but it's still possible to get useful information out of them um uh what else was i going to say oh and at Neuralink work um we're working on ways to make the response this immune response kind of as minimal as possible and one way we're doing that is by having um very very flexible electrodes that they get put in with a very tiny needle that's a quarter the size of a human hair the needle is taken back out and then these tiny little flimsy things that you can't even really see with the naked eye end up staying in the brain they move with the brain they're a little bit more invisible to the brain they can be coded with molecules that the brain recognizes as good things and have the brain kind of accept them more easily that way um so these are some of the ways in which we're dealing with that and yeah i'll pass it on to me right next quarter yeah so our stories are a little bit different um uh when you put things inside a blood vessel in ours so our device it goes in through a blood vessel through a very small sort of sub-millimeter catheter and when it's in the desired location the motor cortex then we remove the catheter and it expands to put the electrodes or the sensors against the vessel wall to allow blood flow to to go through the middle um what we found is a process of endothelialization or the gliosis the the body's response to devices uh in a blood vessel it will push it away from the inside of the blood vessel so the device gets incorporated into the vessel wall uh what we found um both in the the preclinical trials and the humans is that that's actually beneficial for us we the device uh gets incorporated into the vessel wall where it sort of anchors and so our signal noise um improves because there's no movement through through the middle and and the device is more stable so so the um fortuitously we've found that the the body's reaction is actually helping our signal quality over time and and once it reaches a point obviously where it's incorporated in the vessel you know within a couple of weeks then the signals you know remain and uh we haven't got to five years yet we our first patient was in august 2019 so we're so only only two years down but certainly we've seen that the signals remain um as they did at the two week point from from then on that's brilliant um and certainly go have a look at um some of the videos both of neurolink and and also um synchron um for kind of seeing some of the things that both piata and nick have just mentioned another technical question well they've called it a slightly technical question from dimitri um from thoughtwide um uh how high or low do you think that the ceiling for EEG based BCI is functionally especially with devices that are wireless um and easy to wear versus those that are a lab grade capped with amps they've talked about so again maybe just uh give us a little bit of context for those that can't imagine the technology that's just been mentioned there who wants to take that one so if you do you want to take that one nick you go first yeah i've got a comment i think that there's there's a lot of different technologies that will have different benefits to different different patient groups um obviously if if you're placing something outside the skull the skull will act like a a filter and will suppress some of the activity that you get um but that might be fine if you only need to have a binary switch to control some applications then you know that's you know that's that's one application certain people might have that uh and indeed some of our patients um haven't wanted to use all of the electrodes or sensors we've got in there they're happy with just getting really good at one or two sensors or clicks if you will and they've found that with even with those they can do a huge amount of uh communication and web-based activities like shopping and and banking and financial management and and they've said you know that's enough i don't need all these other switches uh for me to you know if it will for them that person to have benefit and then you go to Beata where they've you know got got many more electrodes and sensors and and certainly again um there'll be different applications for that there are going to be people that want to control a huge amount of of information uh whether it's receiving or sending and so i think a lot of this technology will have you know a base level of everyone will be able to do this but there'll be certain subsets of uh individuals as well as uh different conditions that might benefit from uh from each way of addressing the same problem yeah i might just add to that i think that nick is right in terms of um you know the different areas of applications but that question also made me remember one i think it's out of MITmedia a lot it's called AlterEgo where they actually take the signals from the throat area um they tap electrical signals before your voice box actually issues the sound so you're silently whispering to yourself so again that's another way of grabbing the electrical signals out of your head and then we're kind of running uh short of time now but one other question that we've got there in q a is uh do you feel it will be disability assist or performance enhancement that will be the primary driver driver of BCI progress in five to ten years time? So Beata do you want to take that one first? um i think definitely starting with disability assist that's been the big driver all this time and um the fact that um it kind of remained in academia for so long that um sort of the intracortical brain computer interface at least um kind of speaks to the fact that there hasn't been as big of maybe a push from um from the the disability community or um i don't know why it's just kind of stayed in academia for so long but then um it's been nice that there's been much more kind of commercial interest in bringing it to market and i think definitely the fact that it's going to take that stop along the way is is a great thing for um for the disability community and then um whether or not it actually ends up in the enhancement stage um i'm a little bit skeptical um there are certain things that i think we we definitely can do in the near future like you know add sensory modalities for example that um for things that already exist like which way is magnetic north or like seeing into the ultraviolet range or something like that um but um yeah as for like writing in really complex information that's going to be a little bit harder um but definitely like one of the one of the drivers of both the um the enhancement and the disability technology is trying to get to that final enhancement stage Zuby what about you my hope is my hope is that we can start out focusing on the disabled um there are 1 billion of us around the world and largely overlooked right and you can start looking at the statistics and you know all kinds of data so that's just my hope that we can finally focus on this uh group of people and and get them to climb out of the very ultra high unemployment rate public rates and get them to learn and earn so they can become you know economically independent and contributing members of society and um you can never really say never right we don't have a crystal ball of what will happen 5 ten fifteen years from now maybe uh the performance enhancement market will will kick off but my hope of my prayer is that for now let's leverage what we have and help those who are in need that's awesome nick what about you yeah look i agree i i think certainly um if you look at what's happened in history with uh leicester plastic surgery which started as a medical procedure for for burns and other reasons um you know once you've got traction with the um the medical community then you know obviously the larger community have have taken that up and spun it in their own way and i think you see the uh the paralympic games that were just on and certainly a few years ago um you may recall uh the blade runner Oscar Pistorius was was wearing sort of bionic limbs and and wow that guy was fast like certainly much faster than i was probably uh equally as fast as some of the the athletes that that didn't require prosthetics and um i think they had to slow the legs down so we didn't go too quick but i think you'll see a time where uh where some of these bionic replacements uh are better than our own limbs some of the arms that have been made by uh in the u.s are arguably better than than the one i've got now so you know i think there is going to be a time where where the technology excuse me improves people to it to a level that that they're not at yet but uh but i i can't see that yeah i certainly want to see that happening for the people that need it in the first case and i think i imagine that's where where i'll that's brilliant well the last question that i that i have for each of you and we'll have to keep this brief because we're just about out of time but what's what's one remarkable insight that you have for for BCI generally and where it's headed i'm so Beata we'll start with you i'm not sure i would qualify this as a remarkable insight but my own personal insight um is it's just kind of my my story of like how i got started in neuroscience was because i was very interested in consciousness and how you know brain activity gives rise to consciousness um and it's an inherently subjective thing so it's very difficult to study but now that we're making these brain computer interfaces and you know implanting them in human study participants maybe we have a way to actually start accessing some of these questions as well because now we we can actually introspect and see what kind of neural chords their correlates there are of these subjective phenomena that's fantastic nick um i think the insight that i'd like to share was um was from our first participant when um when he was using the system firstly you know it was absolutely magic to see a man sitting there paralyzed controlling something on the screen but the thing that i didn't appreciate at the time was um the the people that benefit from this aren't necessarily the users only so he was he was obviously benefiting he was able to control his uh you know his environment um but but on the on the side note he's his wife and cara uh she was able to get more independence knowing that she could now leave his side to to go out in the garden go down to the shops um we connected him up with you know so uh communication tools whatsapp and texting so that they could always be in contact but she didn't have to be there and i didn't appreciate it at the time um and when building this the the impact that would have on on the carers and the family and the people that aren't necessarily the recipients of these sort of technologies so i think that was that was a big insight for me and certainly you know lovely to see that that what we're doing is is more uh we're further reaching than the uh than the users or the people that that actually receive the tech absolutely yeah there's the the uh also under recognized uh um support community and carer community that that happens alongside some parts of the disability community as well so that's brilliant Zuby we'll finish with you well i think uh my inside will be the moment so what i mean by that is um i mean look at the the team you've assembled here right these are folks at the bleeding edge pushing technology forward to help humanity i think this is the right team to do the job right and create positive impact but then also um the forum um this is probably one of the first times remarkable insight has put together a busier right and so that's great it's an exciting moment but then um look at the humanity the disability space from caroline's amazing job of development 500 and i just happened to be in dav i'm in geneva switzerland to echo her message uh same year at the un and now two years later we do have those 500 companies and you move over to we the 15 right and then we move over to plus i n inclusive innovation network and then there's think and zoom feature of disability with a list of global innovators so that's what i mean by this is the moment right so we are pushing for the technology and we're also bringing the humans together and so this is the moment to bring it all together that's really exciting and really well said Zuby thank you um so um please join me in thanking our panelists today we've had Beata and Nick and Zuby also to taran our auslan interpreter it's been fantastic having a conversation with you remarkable is about harnessing technology for um for to build social economic and inclusion and so uh for people with disabilities so we we want to welcome anyone to express interest in our accelerator program that is open right now um for our accelerated program running in 2022 today is also RUOK day in australia and are you ok day while we're waiting on technologies like bci that might actually be able to assist people who those of us who do have mental health challenges one of the things that we can do right today is to check in with people that we know and love and to check in and ask if they're doing okay it's important that we look after ourselves in this time of need as well we'll be seeking some of your impact on today's remarkable insight session as well so if you could leave us some comments um straight after this webinar that would be fantastic recording will be made available as well on remarkable tech's youtube channel make sure you subscribe to that this kind of conversation we think is vital um like Zuby said we we hope that this moment in time of the bringing together of of people technology and and where the future of technology and innovation is headed um is going to be more inclusive and so we thank you for joining us for this remarkable insights we look forward to you joining us for the next remarkable insights during spark festival next month enjoy the rest of your day and wherever you are calling from good evening good morning and good night
2021-09-14 00:56
