Louis Vuitton [Extended] — Ep19 — Mathieu Lehanneur on Creative Inspiration, Design, and Technology

It does indeed produce a certain sense of wonder, a certain magic, a certain impossibility... Well, yes, yes, it's possible. Hello, I’m Loïc Prigent and you’re listening to the Louis Vuitton [Extended] podcast. In this episode, I had the pleasure of talking to Mathieu Lehanneur, an internationally renowned designer whose work you're all familiar with: The torch of the Paris 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games. He welcomed me to his Factory in Ivry sur Seine, just outside Paris to talk about his commitment to better living, his creative process and the alchemy he creates between technology and materials. Enjoy! Hello Mathieu Lehanneur, thank you for welcoming us to your home.

Hi Loïc, a pleasure, you're very welcome. Thank you very much. So, my first question is, what was the trigger? That moment when you felt, you decided, that you were going to devote your life to design. There were several epiphanies.

There was, there is, an engraving near us, the escalators. And that's where I've been saying to myself ever since I was a child, but what could be more beautiful than an escalator? And what could be more magical than an escalator? Because at some point there was a mind that said to itself, “I'm going to set in motion a staircase which, on the face of it, is the least mobile thing you can imagine.” So there must have been moments that inspired me throughout my childhood, my adolescence and so on. And then, I say to myself, as I discovered a book of André Breton by chance, because I'm at highschool and I'm very bored in Year 11, Year 12.

So I went to the library, what they call the CDI, the library. And they don't have much, but they have a huge book on André Breton. And so during the whole break, because I didn't have many friends at the time, I looked at André Breton and I said to myself, “But I want a life like that, I want to have things like that, I want to see friends like that, I want to be surrounded by people like that.” And so I embarked on more of a Fine Arts career and I started that and I quickly said to myself No, no. this isn't Breton.

I don't want to be in my studio on my own, questioning myself, feeding myself and so on. I want to be in the middle of something. So, I'm thinking maybe design is a good way forward. Maybe André Breton would have become a designer if such a thing existed with the vibrancy and dynamism that design involves, more so than just being an artist.

So relatively late, actually? Very late. And I was a child who didn't draw, who didn't think with things, who didn't do much of anything. So what is design? Is it just tinkering? Or is it making better use of things? It's trying to find the relationship that can be built it's functional, it's psychic, it's psychological, it's metaphysical between a thing, an object, a gizmo, an inert material essentially and a human being who is alive, complex, unstable, etc. Design or the designer, in my opinion, is that missing link between a thing and a living being. It's a huge area, isn't it? Infinite, even. So, what's your mission? Is it about well-being? It's about making people aware that we're alive.

Because I make a lot of objects, but they're functional. They’re tables, they’re armchairs, they’re lighting, they’re other things. It's an Olympic torch. So, they have a function, of course, but I think what I'm looking for in them is that when you see them when you live with them, when you hold them in your hand. Yeah, maybe you feel a bit more alive than you did before you had them. A spiritual dimension? So yeah, there's a spiritual dimension, there's a psychological dimension, there's a behavioural dimension, there's a question of how to draw something so that you actually experience a moment, a little out of time or more intense, or deeper.

So yes, it's true that there's a psychological dimension, sometimes metaphysical, perhaps spiritual, even if, yet again, it's through objects that nevertheless have a function. There's a common denominator in all your work: I sense a therapeutic commitment, a humanist vision, something humanitarian and ecological... Yes, because there's this temptation or attempt to try and understand who we are. We are extremely complex beings, and so objects must have a potentially therapeutic dimension, because they can do you good, because they can help you live a little better. But you're also in the context of a city, an environment, a planet, a universe.

So, there are a whole host of interactions. So, this commitment, I'm going to take an interest, to be brief, both in cells at the nanometric level of the cell and at the level of perhaps not the cosmos, but at least the planet. Yes, you've made objects that create oxygen. I actually made an object that produced oxygen. Typically, because our cells lack it, in the lives we lead today, we lack oxygen.

Science has known this for a long time. On a macro level, the planet has the capacity to produce oxygen through algae and micro-algae. Thanks to them, we have our atmosphere, we have oxygen on earth and so the object in question was aimed at using these micro-algae on a domestic, bairly small scale and in fact making them work with the help of light through photosynthesis so that you and I have enough oxygen to feel good, alive, intense. And it seems to me that creating something useful or beautiful must put you in some kind of a secondary state. So, creating a machine, an object that makes oxygen. How does that feel?

I thought to myself, maybe design can serve a purpose. And that's it. Because my days are... I enjoy it immensely, but there are never moments of total fulfilment when you say “Wow!” Oh really? No! Except when you make a machine that makes... an object that makes oxygen?

Where you think ah, maybe we're touching on something because, making an object... It's difficult to be sensual with an object. If I were a musician, I'd make a melody, I'd create a symphony, I'd reach your ear and reach your brain. I’d give you goosebumps, bring out your emotions, make you cry, and so on. If I were a writer, it’s similar.

Like if I‘m a chef, it's the same. I enter through the mouth, it's sensual. But me, I have organic materials, I have marble, I have wood, I have micro-algae. It's not easy to touch upon the essence of what we are. So here, by using an object like this, where I produce oxygen and where I say to myself, I can get in through the nose, I can get in through the mouth! Is that what you're thinking? Oh yeah! And I'm going to get to the lungs and there I'm going to give off lots of oxygen.

And as a result, the blood is going to be super rich, things are going to happen, it's exciting, yeah. What would you have done if you hadn't been a designer? A scientist? I would probably have studied medicine, but I would have looked for a way to practice by combining it with something else. So maybe I would have ended up as a mix of a psychologist, marabout, pharmacist, and surgeon. So pretty close to André Breton after all.

And ultimately, little by little, I've been swimming upstream towards André Breton's book. Do you still feel close to André Breton's initial idea? I think I'm still close in the sense that he was someone who gave impetus to ideas, who himself didn't necessarily put them into material form. He did paintings, but that's not what we remember, it's about bringing people together, going to see specialists, going to see people who are better than him, but he knows they're better than him and getting them to interact with him or with others. And so, this position of conductor or facilitator or go-between produces something, whether alone or collectively. I'm not yet at the level of André Breton, but I still have a bit of time. I'm working on it. You created your agency in 2002 and the Mathieu Lehanneur brand in 2018.

Are you ultimately an entrepreneur or is it more about creative independence? Yes, it's more about independence In 2002, we created my agency. If you had come at that time, it was my bedroom, so I was at the end of my bed. So you would have been disappointed to say I'm going to visit Mathieu's agency and you ended up sitting on my bed. Right out of school? Yes! But with the feeling that it's difficult to bring something to life, intellectually, creatively, financially and so on. And that the best way to do it is to cut out all the middlemen.

So, if you work for a company or an agency, you have to convince your project manager, who has to convince the head of the agency, who has to convince the marketing manager, who may be able to convince the CEO in the end. That's a lot of middlemen. So, over time, I've tried to remove all these middlemen so that, between the initial idea, a small fragile seed that we feel has the potential to become an oak tree, maybe a maple, a weeping willow, something like that, in any case to go from a seed to something, well, we have to remove them.

We'll be in the best position to water it at the right time, to display it properly, to talk to it, to give it affection and so on, to give it a chance to become something. If you pass the seed on to a middleman each time, there's very little chance of it becoming anything. As a result, there is this desire to be entirely independent and therefore necessarily to commit oneself and to be at the beginning and at the end of the chain.

From the first fragile, clumsy sketch to the finished piece delivered to the customer. So where are we today? We're just a stone's throw from Paris. We’re in a very beautiful building dating from 1900, which belonged to our national electricity company, so I think there's a good energy in there, maybe a bit electric, but a good energy.

And that's where we have our offices, the design office that develops the pieces we have, all the materials, the samples. It's here that we manufacture, produce and assemble our pieces, it's here that we receive our crates, put them in crates, say goodbye to them and hope never to see them again. And I see on the table you have sketches on tracing paper.

That's how projects begin, right? Are these sketches? It always starts off that way. So, once you're at the sketching stage, the general project is already relatively clear in your mind. How much time does it usually take then? Typically? It takes... It's quite a long time. It can take six or eight months with something you're thinking about. Then five minutes a day, you think about it, and you start to improve it a bit.

Then you give it back to your brain and the brain starts to work on it. And so, as the days, weeks and months go by, the thing becomes clearer in your mind and you see if it holds up, if it has the potential to exist. You still haven't drawn it at this stage? It hasn't been drawn yet.

Once it's clear in your mind, you let it live for a few more weeks and then you see if it lasts, if the seed is strong and if it holds up. That's when I take a pencil and paper and try to get my hand to follow what's in my head. The beauty of tracing is that you make an initial drawing. You superimpose the layers as you go along. The drawing becomes clearer, more refined and we try to ensure that the depth we're trying to give it when it starts to take shape is still there. So soon you'll be opening your ‘Pied à terre’ in New York. ‘Pied à terre’ is the name of the space, isn't it?

It's the name because, in fact, like here, the Factory, we have an English name right in the middle of Paris, or almost. So, we thought, we'll even things out and we'll throw some French into the middle of New York. It's a beautiful penthouse at the top of a tower in New York's Midtown district, and it's entirely furnished with our pieces.

And the idea is to bring in our potential customers, our prospects, our collectors, and to welcome them not in a gallery where they couldn't touch anything, not in a showroom where I'd be at the back with my iPad taking orders, but in a place where we sit down, we take our time, we chat, we have a coffee, except that they drink the coffee sitting on our sofas. So, it's a moment to say frankly, hese pieces are beautiful, and I feel really comfortable. How will ‘Pied à terre’ and the Factory complement each other? So this is the brain, this is where we develop things.

And then 'Pied à terre' is the hand. There's a wondrous side to your creations. There's a side to you that likes to surprise, isn’t there? Yes, that's true, because, in fact, today we're all surrounded by millions of objects... That we see increasingly often. So that we don't notice them anymore! They've filled up all the space and they've filled up our collective memories. And so, if you bring a new one to the table, well, it has to be able to catch your attention, for even one tenth of a second; we have to go through another channel, we have to go through the back door, which is the door of surprise, the door of emotion, the door of...

Wonder? A sense of wonder, a sense of magic. We have a few pieces near us, where blocks of marble weighing hundreds of kilos are placed on glass spheres that seem as fragile as a vase on a sideboard. It produces a kind of wonder, a kind of magic, a kind of cultural impossibility because, on the face of it, it can't be done mechanically, it's not possible. And, well yes, it is indeed possible.

What are you dreaming of creating at the moment ? I'd love to set up a school. As a student, I was very bored. I missed out because in fact I was asked to conform to a strict framework by saying this is society and therefore your desires, your problems, your nervousness, your anxieties whatever you want, must be diluted into the needs of society.

Yes, that's part of one of the missions. Except that there are too many children, and I was one of them, who totally reject it and miss out. And I think that sometimes it wouldn't take much. There's no need to radically change everything, there's no need, but if only to connect my mind to my body, in other words, if you're sitting in a classroom, we all have a shaky leg because we feel like it and we have too much energy. We play with our pens. I open my bag, I close it,

because in fact my body needs to move. . And if the class doesn't give me the opportunity to generate movement, I miss out. So, I start thinking.

I don't know how. If you've got any ideas, I'm interested in how a classroom can be used today, given the size and budget constraints of the French education system. How do I connect with my body? In fact, we're not all equal in the classroom, there's the one who's had his cornflakes in the morning, and everything's gone well at home, and the one who's just arrived, who's super nervous and things haven't gone well, etc. So, we can't dictate to them, we can't impose the same protocol on them. So, we need to find ways of bringing back more informal, freer spaces.

And once again, I don't think we need to revolutionise everything. Which project took you the longest to complete ? A project I did that was a commission to redo the choir of a church, which was a Romanesque church from the eleventh century. It was Melle in Poitou-Charentes, a very beautiful Romanesque church, listed by UNESCO. And the priest at the time, said that the choir of his church, - which is really the centre, a focal point for believers and non-believers, in the architecture itself is not up to the standard of the Romanesque church as it is.

And so, he comes to me and says, “There you go; I'd like you to think about the heart of the Church. The budget is that of a village priest, the lowest-ranking within the church, really not much at all! And he who has real ambition, he who is a brilliant and enlightened man, who says, “I want even the non-believer or someone of another faith, for whom the doors are always open, to come. I want him to feel that when faced with this heart, it's not just any old place, it's a spiritual place.”

So, I propose a fairly ambitious project. And so, we completely rethink the whole choir, which became something quite magical, as if the floor, like the top of an iceberg to put it quickly, was made of thin layers of marble, as if it were emerging from the ground. And so, the priest says to me, "I'm absolutely convinced," and I say to him, "I am too, but your budget won't allow it. I think we need to keep it in mind, but what are we going to do?” And he says, “But we'll find the money” He said that? Yes. And he says,

"But wait, I remember. Your time and my time don't matter. The time of our respective lives. I'm not even talking about the time of a project. We're in a Romanesque church that dates back to the eleventh century. So, there you go,

Let's concentrate on what we think needs to be done. Will we see it in our lifetime? Maybe, but frankly, it doesn't matter." I say to myself, "Yes, it's true, it's not stupid what he's saying."

And so, he disappears for two or three years, and then he comes back after two or three years with a bag full of gold, saying, "That's it, I've got the money." And, in fact, he left with his pilgrim's staff and knocked on the doors of the town hall, but they couldn't finance it; it's a sacred place... The region, the state, the Ministry of Culture, historical monuments, private individuals, semi-private individuals, foundations, and so on. And as the project was much more ambitious than its budget allowed and this is a good thing to keep in mind the more ambitious a project is, the more expensive it generally is, but paradoxically, the easier it is to find the money to finance it. It was this village priest who made me realise this.

I used to think that you always had to cut costs and budgets in order to give things a chance. But sometimes you must be very ambitious because then you attract more interest from people who say, "But if I contribute financially to a project like this, we're not talking about a ten-year project, or even a 100-year project. We're talking about a project that will outlive us and a few generations more." So, this is undoubtedly the project that has taken the longest, but not because I've done the most work on it, but because it was this priest who pushed all the doors open to bring it to life. Incredible.

Can we talk about the symbolic value of the Torch for Paris 2024? Sure ! What story do these objects tell ? Paris 2024 is a group of people, an idea, one of the pillars of which is the notion of equality, which has been present right from the start of the bid because they are saying we are going to put the Olympic Games and the Paralympic Games on the same level, because, for the first time in history, there is going to be perfect parity between male and female athletes. We've never achieved that before. And so, this idea of equality, they say, is an important thing, and I feed off that. So, I draw that out of their personalities, and it's one of the elements on which I create the design of this torch through this play on symmetry.

So, I say to myself, “What could be better than symmetry to express the perfect equality of two things that respond to each other, even through reflection?” And then, once I've said that to myself, I think that it still must tell us a bit about Paris because that's where it's going to take place. So, I infuse a touch of Paris in this torch, and I feed off the Seine. And that's what gives these undulations on the lower part of the torch and this very reflective part of the material. And then, the third element I have in mind, I'd also like it to be a slightly calming object, devoid of any sense of conquest. Did you also design the flame, I mean did you determine whether it will be a long or short flame? Exactly. Exactly. It's a real issue because, once you've created this symmetrical shape, it means that at the top, where the flame comes out, I don't have much room.

In fact, you can see that the torch closes up at the top, whereas club torches are usually very open, so it's easier to get a big, plump flame. So, there's a real issue here. So, what's going to be very beautiful, and it is, is that the flame is really a continuation of the torch, not a flame that you put on a torch, but it's really as if the torch itself becomes the flame.

Nevertheless, the torch must be visible. It must have a beautiful colour, it has to have beautiful curves, and it has to dance well. The flame really is a choreography. We also have to be able to manage it because we can't control the weather conditions: when you have a runner in the relay, and there's a headwind, the flame goes down, and the public are there waiting for three hours "That's great! I saw the torch; I didn't even see the flame." So, all the work on the flame itself was very important in terms of optimising the burner.

For example, we made a small slot at the back of the torch, which is very discreet, but it allows us to create a flame that also comes out the back. So even if there's a headwind, I'm running towards you, I've got a headwind that puts my flame down, but for those on the sides, they'll see the flame coming out the back. So always be vigilant. So yes, we're playing with different factors.

You've been kind to the audience, that's good. Well, that's why we do it right? As part of their exclusive partnership with Paris 2024, LVMH, Louis Vuitton created the trunks for the Olympic and Paralympic torches. What were the discussions with them about the design of this trunk? We passed the torch onto them, meaning that it was already fully designed.

We hadn't yet gone into production, but we'd done the prototype, so we had all the materials and finishes. Everything had been decided and designed. I handed them the torch and told them: “Safe journey, I trust you".

"I'm off to Asnières with the torch". They left for Asnières with the torch, and I said to myself... I was confident, but I was also hoping—well, I was hopeful— I said to myself, “I hope they're going to enhance it; I hope they're going to show it off.”

Honestly, I was really happy. Because when it’s in its trunk, it doesn’t just move around; it’s secure, and that’s how we designed the stands for the sponsors who will be lucky enough to have the torches. The idea is to make sure that the object isn’t just sitting there but looks as if it’s a flame, as if I open a box and there’s a flame living inside. So, we didn’t need to talk much—just a flame, a look, and that’s it.

It's incredible, their craftsmanship and your design. Yes, exactly. And that leads me to another important point, which is that 2,000 Olympic torches have been produced, which may sound like a lot, but is actually a very small number. So, we're not talking about the same kind of production as a car, or a telephone. We're talking about something that is eminently artisanal, 2000 pieces. Everything is obviously assembled by hand, meticulously handled, polished, one by one, and so on.

And I'm not sure that people realise the extent to which the torch, when they see it go by, is a supremely crafted object. I think the trunk brings that out too and helps to recontextualise that this torch may not look like much, but it's a little jewel of craftsmanship. Fantastic. What are you currently working on? We're continuing to develop all our pieces. I'm lucky enough to be able to work without a schedule, unlike in fashion. I'm not subject to a design schedule for a design show or anything like that.

So, we're developing the pieces. Some take six months, others six years. But that's it, we take the time we think is right and necessary and we have exhibitions coming up. We're going to be showing quite a few new pieces in Miami, Design Miami Art Basel in December, and we're going to be doing an exhibition at Christie's in January, with some new pieces too. So, there's a lot going on.

Thank you very much. Thank you. For taking the time to welcome us to your home. A pleasure. We've just heard someone who has an incredible creative fire inside him and who thinks before he draws people who take the time to think so much before picking up a pencil and drawing really impress me.

And it's always really interesting to ask questions to people who invent things. I have the impression that he goes beyond the material aspect of objects. He reflects about how we're going to live with this object or how this object is going to help us.

I guess that's what better living is all about. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Louis Vuitton [Extended] podcast. We'll be back soon with more stories from visionary personalities. You can find all the previous episodes on your favourite platforms, including Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast to get notifications so you don't miss any episodes, and we'll see you again very soon for a new episode of Louis Vuitton [Extended].

2024-09-06 11:24

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