hello everybody and welcome to this our second flame spec webinar today i will be talking for around 40 to 45 minutes about our flame spec triple ir flame detector and how it provides new levels of performance in optical hydrocarbon flame detection in a later webinar we will specifically discuss how our flame detector family addresses the needs of the energy transition market by looking more closely at applications for hydrogen ammonia and battery storage for now let me introduce the agenda for this session today we will present a short overview of fire and gas detection technologies inc and how far we have developed since being founded we will then summarize flame detection technologies and the factors that affect detection and false alarm immunity this was very much covered in the first webinar the main presentation will focus on our flame spec triple ir hydrocarbon flame detector we will explain some of the detail behind the design and explain what makes it different we will finish with a few typical examples of applications and a summary so without further ado let me introduce fire and gas detection technologies inc many of you might know that our company was founded in 2017 by a group of highly experienced people who left spectrex following its acquisition in 2015 by emerson fire and gas detection technologies was established with the aim to offer faster optical detection products with market leading false alarm immunity and first class customer service last summer we moved from our unit in brea california into a much larger primary manufacturing facility in anaheim here we have capacity to produce more than 12 000 detectors per year although i should state that this is not the ceiling for manufacture at this facility from anaheim we operate all sales marketing training and technical support activities the factory is naturally iso 9001 certified as all of our products carry hazardous area approval and performance approvals let's look a little bit more closely at our timeline since being founded you will see that up until 2019 the primary focus of our company was to develop a world-class product line of optical flame detectors in 2019 we saw the finalization of some major certifications these include factory mutual icx and atex in 2020 the focus turned to global distribution channels partnerships and key end user approvals in 2021 we continue to expand our distribution network increase market awareness and of course add more approvals we've also started development of an open path gas detector platform and we present more on this at a later date and so today today we have two flame detector product lines matching technology with fire risk and application considerations the technologies cover uvir for hydrocarbon metal and inorganic fires triple ir for hydrogen silane and some other special applications and of course triple ir for visible and invisible hydrocarbon fibers the two product lines were developed to have the same flame detection and fire alarm integration capabilities the main difference between the two lines is with the video capability of our hd detectors we will learn more about this in this presentation right now we will pause to quickly review what affects flame detector response our starting point is always what is going to burn a large luminous smoky flame like crude oil or a large or a low energy near invisible flame like methanol burn very differently whichever it is we must ensure the flame detection technology selected is able to respond to the fuel burning detector sensitivity and distance from the fire are very much linked factors we then need to consider the detector field of view in both the horizontal and vertical planes as a side comment you might find it interesting to learn that a field of view greater than 90 degrees in the horizontal axis does not always equate to better performance i'll leave you with that thought for now as we will discuss this point further in the presentation and another point to consider is the environment in which the detector is installed for example the demands of a detector in an acoustic enclosure of a gas turbine is very different to the challenges posed by the depths of winter in canada or kazakhstan and last but not least we must turn and consider false alarm sources flare stacks are friendly fires the challenge is that no flame detector can tell the difference between a hazardous fire or a friendly one care and attention with the installation linked with mechanical blinkers and sensitivity reduction can normally help minimize false alarms hot objects as we will see in this presentation can cause issues for some flame detectors the main recourse here is to reduce sensitivity sunlight and sunlight reflections can be an issue for some flame detectors mechanical instant changes may help where this is an issue when hot work is being conducted in close proximity to a detector it is normal to isolate the alarm outputs the main historical issue relates to arc welding and uv detectors although activities where heat is produced such as grinding and cutting may be an issue for some ir flame detectors and finally but co2 or carbon dioxide emissions can cause some multi-spectrum ir detectors to alarm if they are mounted in close proximity to the source this issue can be resolved by relocating the detector or if this is not an option other solutions may be available the challenges posed by the fire risk application and installation and presence of false alarm is a complex one so when we take these points into consider we must always ask is there a perfect flame detector and as always the answer is no all flame detectors have strengths and limitations therefore when selecting a device it is important to use the most appropriate technology for the application this is of course why we have a range of products and technologies that match the challenges of the installation with the detection performance needed in this webinar we will be focusing on the flame spec triple ir hydrocarbon flame detector so what have we developed well we developed a detector that in a single unit responds to explosions fast fires slow evolving fires small fires and big fires the detectors work indoors or outside over an extremely wide operating temperature range the detectors have best in class response to a broad range of fires and outstanding false alarm immunity all of which is approved by factory mutual in a single unit we deliver as standard fire and fault volt free contacts a three wire four to twenty milliamp both current sync and current source an isolated four wire 4 to 20 milliamp and an rs-485 port utilizing modbus rtu we also include heated optics adjustable sensitivity and time delays all again as standard what is more all of our detectors are delivered with a five years warranty as mentioned earlier our hd units provide a live video feed and high speed recording of events one minute before the alarm and up to three minutes after it i'm sure you now want to know something of the detail of what we've actually done so with a mature technology it's unlikely that dramatic improvements in detective formats would occur due to changes in any one area in the following slides you will see that subtle incremental changes based on years of product knowledge have culminated with the development of the flame spec triple ir the first area we will focus on is the wavelength and filter selection this was supported by live fire tests where we captured both data and video in color and near infrared from fires the next step sees us focus on the opto mechanical design how we heat the optics and tightly control light entering the sensors finally we will mention pcb construction the termination chamber and flexible options where we provide for interfacing to panels and control system but first we need you to do a little bit of work so we have a quick poll you will see a window will open up on your screen and in it we will be asking a question the question is which flame spec enhancement do you consider adds the most value to the end user there's no wrong answer you can select as many as you want i i'll open the poll now you've got about 20 seconds left i think you have a very clear leader there uh elliott it is very very clear an interesting uh second place as well just there you are so i will show the poll and you just want to quickly talk about it yeah so uh thanks everybody for uh for voting there so we have um 27 uh went for speed of response uh 22 percent uh looked at sensitivity or detection range uh 31 for the integration flexibility uh so all the functionality in one box uh but the majority um chose and this is 56 of you chose false alarm immunity so uh yeah interesting uh interesting survey as as eliot said there was no wrong or right answer and the answers can be obviously varied depending on your experience whether you're a user uh or whether you're a seller of flame detection or whether you're an integrator of flame detection devices so thanks very much for for that information uh as i said false alarm immunity 56 was nearly double uh the uh the other answers so appreciate your input there thank you excellent thank you very much for that and just so you know i i now have to open the next poll which will be coming up later in the presentation so okay so moving on what we now need to focus on is the wavelength and filter selection it is widely known that hydrocarbon fires generate a plume of hot carbon dioxide and the most triple ir flame detectors use this key feature to detect flames our fireband wavelength is centered around 4.5 microns and we use two adjacent guard band wavelengths one at four and one at five microns these wavelengths help improve the false alarm immunity of the flame detector one point i should highlight is that there is no overlaps of the wavelengths we use this is important as it means the information we're receiving from each sensor is uncluttered a good analogy is to think of the sensor filter combination as a single pixel camera the colors that we receive from these cameras are vibrant and sharply defined and they are completely uncluttered this means that the analysis of thresholds signal ratios and correlations can be conducted more quickly this coupled with enhanced signal flicker frequency analysis improves improves positive fire detection and false alarm immunity naturally the algorithms we employ and develop are key to the detector performance we will now look at that now our new development has allowed us to capture data and video from a huge range of fire and non-fire events the fire events would cover visible and invisible hydrocarbon fires those that were clean burning and those that were dirty or smoky over a variety of distances from very short to very long by which we mean up to about 100 meters or nearly 400 feet non-fire events were tested at very short distances as typically these were less of an issue the further removed from the detector you were typically we examined arc welding electrical arcs modulated and unmodulated objects as well as direct and indirect sunlight the information we captured directly related to the factors we used to differentiate fire from false alarms inside each flame spec triple ir there are over 50 factors that are monitored as part of the detection and full salon rejection algorithms algorithm revisions are validated against the vast library of data for fire and non-fire events to ensure changes only have a positive performance impact in the next two slides we will present a brief glimpse of the three signals the flame spec triple ir uses in the first video you will see the recorded feed from our internal development tool on the left hand side of the video you will see a graph displaying the output from each of the three filtered ir sensors on the right hand side we're showing the live video feed from the flame spec triple our hd detector the first video shows the sensors will not respond where air in front of the detector is modulated and as you see there are almost no signals at all we then introduce a simple heat source close to the detector and modulate it this simple example might represent a detector looking at a hot vessel heat exchanger or a pump on a facility if a group of technicians were to walk between the hot object and the detector a chopping motion of hot cold hot cold would be seen watch as a three signals are generated one per filtered ir sensor notice how close the correlation or tracking is between the three sensors you look here in the next video we introduce a small flame in the presence of the unmodulated heat source the blue line in the graph is for is the output from our 4.5 micron sensor this will show a strong response to the flame whereas the other wavelengths have negligible response the second video on this slide demonstrates a much harder challenge for the detector as we are actively trying to confuse it by mixing a modulated heat and flame source at the same time as with the modulated heat source video on the previous slide the detector could be looking at a hot vessel heat exchanger or pump when the chopping motion of hot cold hot cold would be seen this time watches the three signals are generated due to the modulation and then what happens when the flame is introduced you will see that the correlation of the guard band wavelengths remains closely matched and that the response at 4.5 microns is very strong the detector correctly identifies that a flame is present one other point just to note was that the traces were all continuous so i promise you there's no smoke or mirrors or video editing going on there next we need to look at our enhanced opto mechanical design the flame spec fascia gives it a very distinctive look and feel unlike some competing products we have no need to use sun shades to stop water dripping into the detector optics this is because we have a brow that forms part of the stainless steel casting the three ir sensors sit behind a heated sapphire window the flame spec design uses a heating element in direct contact with the window as this is a more efficient way of heating the optical surface than using an array of resistors mounted more remotely as a result we have lower power consumption than many competing devices finally each sensor sits in a precision machined pocket where incident light is restricted to 45 degrees either side of the central axis thereby giving a 90 degree horizontal field of view it is important to stress that each sensor rather than the detector as a whole has exactly the same field of view let us review this in more detail looking at the flame spec design we can see each of the three sensors is tucked behind a bandpass filter selected to the wavelength of interest either 4 4.5 or 5 microns respectively
as mentioned previously this precision machined pocket restricts light to 45 degrees either side of the midpoint thereby giving each sensor a horizontal field of view of 90 degrees if we consider an alternative semi-controlled design the detector may claim to have a field of view of 90 degrees at is clear that light entering the extreme left of the sensor onto the left is restricted to 45 degrees but light to the right hand side of the center point is unrestricted i'm sure some of you are asking why is this important well the challenge faced by this design is called blue shift in basic terms the transmission properties of a bandpass filter changes depending on the angle of incoming radiation when infrared energy enters from angles greater than 45 degrees the sensors see different wavelengths this unwanted additional data can distort the ratio and correlation of the signals received which may impact the ability of the algorithms to correctly differentiate fire from false alarm meaning that the device performance may be compromised moving on let's have a quick look at our design pictorially this slide represents the journey we've been through with our flame spectra apply our development we started with a blank piece of paper and a mature technology we knew that dramatic improvements in detective performance would be unlikely due to changes in any one area we therefore started to capture data and video of fire and non-fire events and developed algorithms from scratch using this data as input we've already seen how our opto mechanical design tightly controls light entering the sensors and why this is important the integral visor simply stops water from dripping into the optics which are heated to prevent ice or condensation the pcbs are tropicalized and the termination compartment is integral to the detector but segregated which usually makes for a less problematic installation we also have possibly the most complete range of outputs that can be purchased in a single part number a 3y 4 to 20 current sync and current source as well as the isolated 4 to 20 milliamp we have 5 volt 3 contacts and an rs-485 port using modbus rtu but we're not finished there we also offer detection to explosions our ultra fast detection mode is available in all flame spec detectors and uses an independent and parallel detection path to our standard flame detection algorithms ultra fast detection does not affect the speed sensitivity or any other aspect of the standard detection mode similarly the sensitivity and alarm delay settings do not have any impact on ultra fast detection the ultra fast response for our triple ir detectors is 40 milliseconds to fireballs and explosions at short distances here's an example keep an eye on the red lamp which is positioned here just to the right of the detector and above the fgd logo that was in real time we'll now show it slow down completely okay now let's explain a bit more about the published data that we have in the next few slides we will show in more detail the performance levels we've achieved with our flame spec triple our detectors to my knowledge fgd uniquely publishes more fm data in our product data sheets than any other manufacturer the details published include detection distance and response times to different fuels we also include the results of immunity to false alarm in both modulated and unmodulated conditions let's look at some performance data let me explain a little about this slide the response times shown are the average response per rfm test report the fire under test is the same it is the standard one square foot or 0.1 meter squared n heptane fire at each distance this means as we move further from the detector the radian energy it receives reduces this essentially matches the inverse square law so if we double the distance from the detector it can only see a quarter of the energy that it saw at the shorter distance in order to maintain detection we manually increase device sensitivity one interesting point to highlight is at the limits of detection looking at the extreme sensitivity to the right hand side of the slide you can see this is around 80 meters for this fire type and size you'll also see that the detector takes longer to decide if a fire is present at 80 compared to 70 meters this is because the detector runs additional validation checks when the received fire signal is low let's now look at some other of our fm data here we present performance data extracts of our triple ir and triple r hd product data sheets the information shown relates to different fires including liquids gases and solids the detection distance and average response time is given for the stated fire size and sensitivity i'll give you a few moments just to scan the data whilst you're doing so i'd like to point out a couple of things first of all the response time for the two detector types are broadly similar but not identical this is simply due to the experimental setup as the fires were not conducted simultaneously as a side comment we do have some simultaneous fire test examples later in this presentation where you'll see a much correlation in the speed of response because the detectors will see the same fire secondly it's worth pointing out that the detection distance is not fixed for example our triple ir can see beyond 80 meters if you look at the response data for the 2x2 gasoline fire but the fire must be bigger to do so now let's look at the immunity to false alarm data which you all identified as the single most important factor for end users it is important to highlight the false alarm tests were conducted with our detectors placed on their maximum sensitivity which is the extreme setting that means an 80 meter response to a one square foot end heptane pan fire here we compare our immunity to false alarm data with that of a market leader on the next slides we will see some more response data but i think on this slide the one thing i would particularly like to highlight is the difference in response on the most extreme settings for arc welding we're typically around the four meter mark for a false alarm whereas a competing product is nearer to 12. moving on the information presented on this slides relates to the factory setting of both units most manufacturers default is medium sensitivity which typically means a 30 meters or about 100 feet to the standard n-heptane test fire whilst the list of fuels is shown is not exhaustive the data presented is fm approved generally speaking i think the data shows the flame spec to have a more uniform response across different hydrocarbons whilst at the same time giving improved sensitivity and speed of response the following video gives a head-to-head comparison of market leading devices the intention of the video is not to knock the competitors high quality products they respond well and in a timely manner we're simply wishing to demonstrate the additional speed gains we have achieved naturally enough all the devices are configured the same and have the same zero time delay settings a couple of slide backs i mentioned that we would see some simultaneous fires and this is an example here you see there's a much closer correlation between the speed of response of our detectors and now i have another quick poll for you so there's three questions to answer just based on some of the information that we've seen you have approximately a minute to respond we're just waiting for a couple of respondents to um complete uh the poll i'm happy to say that you've been paying good attention so thank you very much for for that so the ultra fast response is 40 milliseconds that was very well defined the video outputs are pal ntsc and onvif profile s that again was answered well and the factory default setting is uh is medium so um well done thank you very much for uh for uh answering that uh those questions for us now in the video we just saw you saw a glimpse of our hd detector and now i would like to just share with you some of the capabilities that we have with that device so as previously mentioned our triple r flame detector is also available with an integral cctv camera the live camera feed delivers high definition quality video output using on fifth profile s format for retrofit applications we also have pow and ntsc the video element of our detector helps elevate on-site safety by providing clear video stream of the area being protected in the unlikely event of an incident informed decisions can be taken more quickly and first responders can be appraised of the situation and directed more appropriately as an additional feature fire events are recorded at high speed both before and after an incident as standard the video recording before detection is one minute and after three and after detection an additional three minutes can be added this video contains time and date stamped information which can be used as part of a post incident investigation the next video clip has been cut down from the full recording at the top of the screen you will see the time and date stamped information this can naturally be synchronized to the local clock there's the time of day stamped information and you'll see the detector responded the event video feed can be extracted using a web browser the onvif device manager or our own ftd communicator by way of a quick introduction here is our fgd communicator the software this software is is required if changes are needed to the configuration of the detector when shipped from the factory the main features of the software are the ability to communicate using modbus over an rs485 port parameters such as sensitivity the ultra fast response the delay time latching of relays or the the standard 4 to 20 milliamp signal the selection of the heater and also whether you want video on or off or whether you want to select pal or ntc ntsc video are all available through a password protected environment the software can also communicate with the triple ir hd via an internet connection that allows live streaming of the video and the ability to retrieve event recordings in the next few slides we will cover detector testing approvals and accessories testing can be conducted externally using one of our atex approved flame simulator kits or via a manual built-in test if testing is conducted using the test torch the detector outputs are activated and a complete system check is performed the manual built-in test has two options one that simply tests the injector internals and the cleanliness of the optics and the other that performs a full loop test in much the same way as the test torch the automatic built-in test initiates every 15 minutes and is used to verify electronic circuitry sensors and window cleanliness it's important to note that if a fire is detected and the unit is in dirt fault the fire will override the fault signal this slide denotes the approvals we already have in place and i will mention some of the additional ones we're working towards you will see that the core hazardous area approvals of atex iecx fm eac and peso are already in place we also have performance approvals to fm 3260 and en 54 part 10. what is more our flame spec triple r detectors have been approved by dnvgl to the very rigorous med the marine equipment directive you will no doubt have noticed that our sill capability is by fmeda at the present time we are working to obtain full certification before the end of the year and finally we have started work to obtain vds and ukca approval moving on just a few slides to talk about our accessories the tilt mount brackets offers true versatility for installation and it has adjustment in both horizontal and vertical axis what is more the fixing centers of the base plate are identical to some of the market leading brands meaning retrofits are very straightforward the pole kits can be mounted with a two or three inch pole as standard and others are available on request if customers insist we can also supply sunshade as well and the latest addition to our range is an airshield this item can be supplied either for the standard or hd detectors and the air shield uses compressed air to flow an air curtain across the detector window thereby preventing accumulation of dirt on the detector or the camera window now looking at some applications we're able to satisfy a wide range from the most obvious like offshore marine lng tank farms and refineries things also like large vehicle protection loading racks and compressors to the less obvious aircraft hangers waste transfer stations biomass facilities recycling centers waste to energy plants battery storage spray paint booths and others and our hd units are ideal when remote monitoring of site or process is needed applications like normally unattended facilities gas plant remote tank farms or pipeline booster stations spring to mind for the use of the video we're now coming towards the end of our presentation i'd therefore like to summarize our development in this r webinar entitled delivering new performance levels in optical hydrocarbon flame detection by way of a summary i'd like to mention what we discussed we had a short overview of fire and gas detection technologies and how we developed since being founded we then summarize flame detection technologies and what affects detection and false alarm immunity the main focus of this presentation has of course been our flame spec triple ir hydrocarbon flame detectors we discuss how we started from a blank piece of paper and a mature technology we knew that dramatic improvements in detector performance would be unlikely due to changes in any one area we therefore started capturing data and video of fire and non-fire events and developed algorithms from scratch using this data as input we saw how our optomechanical design tightly controls light entering the sensors and why this is important the integral visor simply stops water dripping into the optics which are heated to prevent icing or condensation the pcbs are tropicalized and the termination compartment is integral to the detector but segregated which as mentioned before usually makes for a less problematic installation we also saw that our flame spectroplar detector has a more uniform response to different hydrocarbons whilst at the same time giving improved sensitivity and speed of response all of which is independently approved by factory mutual we also have possibly the most complete range of outputs that can be purchased in a single part number from any flame detector manufacturer as previously mentioned three wire four to twenty milliamp sink source isolated four to twenty five volt free contacts an rs485 port utilizing modbus rtu i firmly believe that our flame spec supplier has truly raised the bar regarding flame detection performance and what customers should expect from manufacturers finally i have one more head-to-head comparison of market leading devices this time to a gaseous fire the attention again of this video is not to knock the detectors of the competitors they are high quality and they retire in a they respond in a timely manner we're simply wanting to demonstrate the additional speed gains that we have achieved naturally enough all the detectors are configured in the same way and as before i just like to mention how closely the our detectors actually match one another and so without further ado we've reached the end of the presentation and i'd like to thank you very much for attending and ian are there any questions that we need to answer yeah thanks uh elliot yes yeah there's there's a few actually we have some on the chat uh which i'll uh i'll go to first um i've sent uh some people the link to the youtube uh video from the first presentation um and uh the first question on the chat which i did reply to everybody but uh does an air shield lower the view angle of the detector and if so by how much um okay i'll i'll let you answer that uh verbally uh it's a very good question actually we've designed the air shield so it has no impact in either the horizontal or vertical field of view of the detector so the performance of the device is completely unaffected from what is published on the data sheets okay thanks and uh rajan prakash asked uh when to use uvir and triple our detectors can you elaborate i think that's probably the the topic of another uh another webinar actually there's not a very simple question to answer but have you got any basic advice so pretty much if in general a hydrocarbon flame detector can actually respond to the fire my preference is to use it providing it suitable for the application uh if it was an extremely hot application with a lot of vibrating uh surfaces around it may be that one would more tend to move towards a uv-based detector and not even necessarily a uv-ir than a triple r but but it really does depend exactly on the application um i think the one thing that's important to highlight is generally speaking the uv-ir can detect a broader range of fires but but we are now starting to move away from hydrocarbon fires which is the subject for today certainly in our next presentation which will be about energy transition we will highlight some real advantages where the uv ir detector can actually be an advantage so i think that um the comment is wait wait till next time and we'll definitely fill you in on more details then okay and uh another question in the chat from uh jean-marie jean-marie you had a couple of questions i'm not quite sure i don't understand optical checking cover only one ir detector i'm not quite sure okay i think i understand what jean-marie is saying so uh there's at least one manufacturer on the market that actually would do a through lens optical check on each of their three individual sensors whereas most of the manufacturers and actually a lot of the end users are very happy that they understand the optical contamination does broadly speaking land on a detector in in very much the same way so if one of the senses is becoming contaminated then you know that the other ones are which is why we typically just employ um a single one there's another point to it and that is the main manufacturer that uses three also is using part of the information from each of those three sensors as part of the main fire detection algorithm whereas we principally are using the 4.5 microns so for fire detection capability the sensor that we cover with the optical check is the most important one okay thank you thanks and then uh last one from jean-marie's can we use the triple ar h2 for hydrocarbons you can for some so it is able to detect methanol but it is nowhere near as strong in performance as uh the standard triple r detector so we would have to look at each of the individual fuels that's going to burn because the sensitivity to a standard hydrocarbon fire is nowhere near the same so again it would come back to the application understanding the fuels that are going to burn and then make sure we are matching the right technology uh to to the through the application itself okay and i think uh just to respond to your your question john mary we'll provide you with a lot more information for hydrogen uh after the uh after the webinar okay i'll take a note of the questions um uh rajan again uh fine due to hydrocarbon gases or gasoline in turbine compartments can we use ir3 sensors to capture fire i mean and eliminate present heat detectors so the the the answer is it is possible um but what we actually have to do is use a much lower sensitivity detector because well the detection distances are nowhere near the same anyway so we would use a modified version uh sensitivity wise for the inside of an acoustic enclosure typically we're probably going to be down in a detection distance on axis of about seven and a half meters which for a turbine enclosure is going to be more than enough okay thank you thanks and uh a question from uh from singapore uh from skippy do you think field of view restrictors may be required or are the algorithms significantly improved if one cannot avoid certain known sources understanding placement is the key factor so it's a good question there about interferences and how our algorithms are managing those i i think it would simply depend on what we're talking about as the false alarm source if the detector has an an absolute direct view of a flare and depending on the size of the flare it's going to be able to see it so there i would definitely be seeking some sort of mechanical change to the installation whether it be the use of a blinker or whether it be to actually relocate the detector one would actually have to look at the individual example itself hopefully the person who designed the fire and gas system would actually worked out where the flare was and tried to position the detector accordingly in the first place but that's not always the case yeah do you see any uh any improvements uh in the future which can manage those uh there may well be some that we will talk about a bit later in the year but that's definitely the subject for another flamespec webinar okay thanks thanks eddie um and a question here from uh vladimir tomich are there any software that is certified in 2d or 3d with which we could work on projects and predict how many detectors we need for uh for some space i think it's a good question for um for the next webinar right okay so that that sounds like um vladimir is is wanting mapping software so the bit that i'm not clear about is the the comment about certified um so there are definitely software tools that are available on the market where you are able to model our field of view um in in 2d or 3d for for any given space or or application they are validated by the manufacturers of the software i don't know how they would be certified but but um ian i mean that's a very interesting plug so that as part of our last webinar we did send out a survey um and we will do the same again after this particular presentation the survey is totally anonymous but we do like to get feedback and one of the things that people wanted to to get a feeling for was fire and gas mapping so we have an independent company that's going to come along and talk about fire and gas mapping at the next webinar which is on the 24th of june okay thanks and uh uh patrick vieira uh one of my favorite footballers uh is what you recommend for flame mapping and i think uh patrick uh stay online and uh attend the next uh webinar that we'll be doing in june um so i am thanks for uh patiently waiting for your question so iron's question is uh on the field of view on the data sheet you mentioned the field of view vertical 75 90 90 degrees horizontal how is this possible when the front is machined to 45 degrees uh does this mean you have a field of view of 90 degrees all round okay i'm sorry that i wasn't more clear in their presentation so the 45 degrees is either side of the central point so it's 45 degrees to the left and 45 degrees to the right so therefore the horizontal field of view is 90 degrees and actually in the vertical plane it's actually 45 degrees below the central point and it's 30 degrees above which is restricted by the the little reflector that we use for the for the through lens optical check ah right okay as you can see actually it's a very uh so there you can see that on the screen yeah uh which very interesting thanks uh i and that that was a good question thank you i because it's it's not one that i had before either um a question from uh gary uh what detective would you suggest for conveyors in an energy from waste plant where the type of waste is unknown general house waste for example it's going to be an organic material so it will be a triple r flame detector without question however it needs to be correctly located probably with an air shield and we would need to consider the speed of response that was needed and how it's going to interface with the control system okay so if you have organic waste yeah it's a trip standard triple r hydrocarbon yeah okay and what about general house waste but that's exactly the thing exactly the same okay i think so uh so triple i on that one gary thanks for the question and uh marek some good questions here by the way everybody thank you um from what i've heard fog might be problematic because it can act as a bandpass filter with different response to different mid ir wavelengths did you experience false alarms in foggy atmosphere with constant ir sources present i think that that is probably something that is more focused towards open path gas detection than flame detection so the fog itself should not have any material impact on the ability of the detector to respond typically for applications we would be looking at path lengths or i shouldn't say path links detection distances of about 30 meters and and you won't typically be having fog having any real impact on a fire that's burning at 30 meters even a longer distance it would have almost no material difference at all but i think that's the i think that's mainly focused the open path and we will talk about that later in the year as well yeah yeah so energy radiation from the fire is is either not affected or or less affected by uh by fog in the the wavelengths we're looking at right okay yeah it will burn the fog off as well yeah that's true yeah and uh question from jose what does fgd use as active material in their sensors for detection well that sounds like uh i think i think i would have to ask others i i don't know the answer to that off the top of my head so we'll take that one away and give feedback all right i i think uh but one of the the points i think you raised in the uh in the topic was the centers are proprietary they they are sorry i i didn't specifically mention that they're certainly built to a dedicated part number that only we purchase and they are all tested fully over the entire temperature range that we cycle over okay so there's a lot of work that goes into the ir sensors okay and uh and we have a final one here i think i'll just check the chat before i before i do that but uh is from the administrator uh is the ir3 suitable for smoldering flame on a coal conveyor that's a good question the answer is no um and actually that that comes from the the previous um presentation as well so no we have to see a flame there has to be a fire no matter how small it is we do need to see the flicker it is very important that we see the temporal movement of the flame as that is an integral part of the detection mechanism which is why in this presentation you may recall that we're showing the hot object and then we were modulating it so if it was just heat you're not going to see any of that flicker movement and we won't detect it so it's a very good question we cannot detect smoldering fires and i think that's the reason why many systems incorporate multiple uh methods of detection whether you've got heat detection smoke detection flame detection right it could well be and and there are ember detectors for example that may be suitable for that application as well all right thanks and kind of a little bit related how does this detector suppress false alarm from hot exhaust co2 from engines is it tested and fully immune so it is not a hundred percent immune however it was tested and and actually i asked when we send out the data you'll see as part of our fm data we actually did test it to hot co2 emissions uh and that is fm recorded at two meters now we have done some work for some very specialist applications whereby we look at the fuels that are actually going to be burning and we are able to do some manipulation on the wavelengths that are actually utilized towards the end of the year i would also expect that we will have some alternative strategies um to talk to to people about so that the way to do it in general is either to move the detector ever so slightly away from the hot co2 source or to utilize some of the the uh changes that we're able to employ but but that is very very application specific when we're going to be manipulating the wavelengths of the detector but we will have new strategies towards the end of the year okay um this next question i'll i'll sort of add a bit uh on before i ask you to answer the question earlier but is the product the product comparisons that we have uh i think there's speculation that it's spectrex or detronics i don't think we mentioned necessarily anybody specific but nothing versus general monitors msa we do in general have comparisons between our competitors but i think our focus is not on the competitors i think you highlighted that the the detronics and the spectrex units do respond very well uh we were focusing on the improvements that we've made and the the performance of the fgd flame spec line as opposed to being negative on any any competitors but uh uh flashong uh if i think you could probably take that offline with flashon uh by me i'll i'll i'll i'll do that um it's very very simple you know we we can't put all the information up it's a very limited time slot we're trying to share and all we're trying to do is actually talk specifically uh towards the the market leaders and um general monitors is obviously a very very good brand but it's not necessarily one of the top three products okay thanks thanks um and uh we have another one here does flame detector sensitivity impact or is it impacted by black body ir emissions either background uh and so background so um it certainly wouldn't have any impact on on sunlight um but but certainly black body radiation depending on how intense the heat source was you wouldn't necessarily be selecting to use an extreme sensitivity we would probably reduce uh that but it depends on the application specifically it depends on the how however the the design has actually been uh constructed and again we can look at all of that sort of information so it's very application specific okay all right thank you um and uh yes so uh a couple of other comments there thanks uh john um i think in fact we've actually addressed all of the all of the questions that uh have come up there um so i think we'll we'll call that uh time on the on the presentation itself and would you like to add any closing remarks uh elliot i just uh would like to obviously thank everyone uh for for attending um and simply just to mention that our next webinar will be an introduction to fire and gas mapping it's going to be presented by tim jones tim is a principal consultant with rps um he's been involved with fire and gas mapping for over 10 years and he's been a process safety consultant for 17 years and he's also been on the committee for the recently published british standard on fire gas mapping so i think he's a real good expert to have to come along and talk about the subject and we look forward to sending out the invites to that and welcoming everyone to that presentation as well the next flame spec webinar that we do so in other words specifically about our products we'll be looking at the energy transition market so we will very much be focusing on some of the subtleties in some of the other products that we have and how they're really quite focused towards things like uh energy transition of um battery storage whether it be waste recycling facilities wind turbines etc so thank you very much everyone there will be uh the survey sent out and it is completely anonymous just so everyone knows so please be honest the feedback will make these webinars better and we hope that uh you found them valuable all right thank you uh so uh yeah finally uh thank you very much everybody for uh for attending the webinar for for signing up and uh and spending the uh i know everybody is very busy despite uh the lockdown uh so thank you for your uh your time your appreciation your input with the answers and the questions and uh we will as we did before make a recording of this webinar available to you uh we'll send some further information uh in the next uh next few days um i wish you a safe uh rest of the day safe thursday and yeah we look forward to seeing you next time thank you everybody thank you
2021-05-02