Large Entities on the Web3: What does the future hold? | Web3 Summit 2023

thank you well hello hello hello everyone uh thanks  for being here uh thanks to all the sponsors   uh of the event and thanks to Primavera Pro for  organizing this uh amazing uh Summit that we have   been creating from good zoo which is the company  that I have co-founded uh we are so PR so proud   to be together with such uh interesting people  building amazing projects in this new and emerging   space called uh web 3 that people says uh it  could disrupt uh music industry my name is arnao   as I said I am the CEO and co-founder of go to but  I have a background working for big corporations   in in the music industry I have been working for  uh Brands like Jagermeister I work also for this   Cox which is the biggest music Marketplace in the  world and after I got my dream job at Primavera   sound where I was one of the main Bookers but  last year together with my partner Frankie we   decided to move to the web 3 space so I explained  my background because I come from Big corporations   and normally big Corp when I when you are in big  corporations it's difficult that they do invest in   Innovation and here with us today we have some  people who works for big corporations and who   works in the field of innovation with something so  specific which is uh web3 then well I I like it to   to introduce you guys to introduce yourself  you will be you will be doing this better   than myself if you want we can start with ujr  sure playing who you are and what do you do   yeah so J.R Walker I am the director of web3  and metaverse at Sony music and the orchard   um so yeah we do everything from Consulting to  uh like project managing went through projects   and managing them you know end to end um prior  to Sony I was working at a web 3 agency where   I worked with the likes of Steve Aoki Timbaland  um and then on the web3 native side guys like G   money Catalina Wales Ledger market and yeah part  of that was dropping my own project so been in   the space for about four or five years now and  that's me what's up I'm Sam and I own a studio   called forward we manage emerging Technology  Solutions for entertainment companies uh we   work with Coachella I worked at Coachella for  about seven years before that focusing on digital   experiences for fans and digital Partnerships  with technology companies and we also work   with Universal Pictures helping them with some of  their web free strategy across their film division   hey I'm Jackie I'm the head of web3 and  Innovation at Warner Records and basically   I just look at any sort of new technologies and  how they can help the artist fan relationship general manager of Sky which is the Spanish CMO  for music audio visual and theater and just to   correct this is not a big Corporation it's a pro  and I am I don't think this guy should be involved   in actually technology what we are trying to do is  see how we can protect composers and our members   facing this new technology cool well thank  you so much it's true that this guy is not a   corporation or a big Corporation but it's true  that it's like a relevant player and everyone   is looking at what the big players are doing  normally because when big players Embrace uh an   innovation it's because Mass adoption is is near  so web3 is likely to play a very important role in   different fields of the entertainment industry I  remember recently talking with Ursula from polka   that here she mentioned that mass adoption from  web3 will likely come from Fashion gaming and   and music so that's likely how it it will get  so let's uh discover what these companies or   organizations will be embracing web 3 in their in  their strategies but before that I like to hear   how would you get engaged how did you get engaged  with uh web3 on on a personal level if you like   to start uh Christina Well I probably am the  one which is less involved with web 3 I think   perhaps because of my age but I think what we're  trying to do is to try just to see how what this   is to discover what we're talking about because  there's so much noise around you know blockchain   and artificial intelligence and all of that and  I think my approach to this is first to try to   understand what we're talking about really what  we're talking about but I'd say from a personal   View I'm not a content creator or a musician so  I what I try to see is how that may impact our   composers and our members but obviously not  directly because I'm not a Content producer   uh for me I I was working in management and it  was end of 2020 and one of the artists I was   working with at the time uh Chet Porter you know  like a Indie you know producer he um was doing   physical paintings because he just wasn't feeling  creatively inclined and we like auctioned off his   physical paintings on his website and one of  his fans who happens to be Cooper Turley said   you should sell this as an nft and I was like nft  and luckily I started investing in crypto in 2017   so it was like a light bulb went off on my head so  we were on Nifty Gateway a couple weeks later we   were there before the big boom which was a bummer  and from there I was totally hooked and I did   multiple projects with chat and as well as Alice  in Wonderland who I was also managing at the time   cool and what about you guys are you members of  adao or have you ever minted an nft you're trading   with crypto so all of the above yeah um for for  me personally I got involved in the space through   Coachella I think Coachella is like the way we  think about Coachella across both the physical   festival and then all these different digital  mediums that we produce experiences on those as   a pedestal for creators right and I think what was  really interesting everybody at Coachella at the   time was musicians and artists making money off  of digital art for the first time and they're all   coachella's the Music and Arts Festival so there's  all kinds of art there and so we just immediately   began getting involved and thinking about a lot  of the video content that we have over the years   or performances and what that could look like  as nfts back when NBA Top Shot was a really big   thing and that kind of just led us down this path  into a number of our different Partnerships that yeah so for me uh I got to be honest I kind of  stumbled upon crypto and web3 uh a high school   basketball teammate of mine made a ton of money  lost a ton of money uh trading Bitcoin time I had   no idea what it was try to you know decipher  you know white papers and things like that   um with not much luck um but then after  that another you know ironically enough   another high school friend of mine  started working in crypto full-time   um and you know at the time I  was working in artist management   um you know dabbling into music industry and I  remember being so upset about how like broken   I thought it was right without not or without  like a ton of of knowledge about it but uh I   remember thinking or looking at web3 as this like  Silver Bullet of sorts um so uh from there I I   guess it was really NBA Top Shot you know I got  introduced to the guys at Dapper and you know as   a basketball player at the time and uh you know  obviously trading basketball cards was something   that made perfect sense so that's really when the  light bulb went off for me um and then from there   it was you know about getting my hands dirty and  doing things so launched a couple of projects in   I guess the rest is history amazing uh okay uh so  I'm I'm a bit very curious person uh and I always   like to to know things like why uh big players  like for example uh Warner or Sony the orchard or   um Coachella has decided to create a specific  department on on web3 so I like you to explain   more or less your experience in there and  if you're feeling alone or if if you have   like a team working with you and if it's  easy to present ideas and to make it real um I joined Warner Records in January and I'm  a team of one and I stay within the digital   marketing team so I feel like I'm part of a team  even though I'm sort of on my own Island and I   feel like you know this was a big moment that  Warner Records wanted somebody to focus on this   stuff and they realized like we can't sit back  you know they need an expert in the building and   someone to help guide artists and the team um  and I feel like At first I kind of came in and   sat down with everyone on the digital and the  marketing team and I was like forget everything   you know let's start it a new you know because  I think there's a lot of like nft sort of a bad   word like I always find myself saying digital  good digital asset digital ownership you know   kind of using new terminology to not scare teams  off but you know one of my co-workers somebody on   the marketing team said something great a couple  weeks ago he's like ah I get it you're just an   extension of marketing and I was like yep you got  it so now I feel like all the marketing team is   like hey Jackie come work on this project with  me you know so it took a little bit of time but   I feel like everyone understands the value that  someone like me and you know and what we're doing   can bring to the space and it's awesome yeah I  think um I originally started off as a team of   one as well in the marketing department because  it makes a lot of sense right what we're doing   is uh for consumers as is as is marketing and so I  think it does make sense for it to be an extension   um we're we're we were more of like an innovation  Department which was me and then eventually one   other person and in order to really kind  of grow that we had to leave and like be   able to grow that outside of the company and  partnership um and I think the the the why is   like primarily consumer experience people are  people love Coachella because they have really   fun artistic experiences at Coachella and I  think a lot of these Technologies provide new   ways to create those things and then there's  also like a a obviously the artist approach   and supporting artists like I discussed and  then there's the business development approach   and I think that these Technologies can unlock  new business opportunities for for companies   when used the right way and so I think we're  kind of a focus on the three of those things   yeah a lot of what you said resonates for  sure um team of one started in January   um we're still working out the Kinks  internally honestly a lot of as far   as like how we work together um but yeah I  guess you could say you know I do fall under   um like the marketing arm of Sony as far  as like why we got involved Sony's been   kind of like in stealth trying to you know figure  out web3 so a lot of strategic Partnerships like   even before I came on board the past like two  years they've been pretty invested in the space   um but I think they they wanted to actually hire  and have an expert in the building when uh you   know the the bull runs happening all their artists  are coming to the various labels under Sony asking   about this thing like what should we do what can  we do um and none of our guys could really like   field those questions or help them um so those  artists took that business elsewhere a lot of the   time so um yeah that's that's why and you know how  it's going is um it's a it's a slow burn you know   education is definitely the name of the game right  now and we're you know just chipping away at it   it's interesting you know because um well you  mentioned both that your departments are very   new so you started less than a year ago so that's  that's very interesting meaning that we are still   on on a very early early stage of of adoption but  well if uh the the big players are creating this   kind of department is probably because this will  play really an important role and and what about   you Christina obviously uh it's a different  situation because uh you explained that but   um I like you to explain what uh the position  that guy has uh in terms of of web3 so what   like a right Association like you uh [Music] um  what opportunities do you do you see in this in   this field well I mean it's curious because  you're saying that this is from one year ago   um actually because I just joined Skype but  Sky belongs to csac which is his International   Confederation of of societies of authors and  composers and there with this guy we've been   working on addressing the challenges of artificial  intelligence and madeovers for at least three   years because we saw that this was coming and this  was coming this was going to be something very big   I think the idea here and and and that's what  sky is trying to do and and most um CMOS at   least in Europe which we're working with is to  try to have like a coordinated approach to try   to facilitate licensing to to be to allow creators  to monetize to be part of this and especially to   allow composers and other creators that they also  have to be on the table that they have to have a   seat on the table that we're talking about big  corporations we're talking about technology but   at the end you need the musical work or Naja  visual work so you know sometimes we talk so   much about technology but we forget that the core  of everything is music or Audio Visual and if you   don't protect the Creator if you don't protect  the composer you're going to end up with just   you know music created by artificial intelligence  or completely autonomous AI generated music which   actually also needs to be fed by pre-existing  music right so I think the position of of sky and   and of this you know this International approach  is to make sure that we're there that the Creator   is part of this that we can educate and explain to  composers and to creators what the risk and what   are the opportunities of all of this but also that  they can monetize this that they're part of this   because I think when when you know when probably  all of you are very young for this but when we   had these discussions about peer-to-peer and the  internet I don't know 20 years ago I think the the   reaction of the musical industry and the CMOS was  sort of to resist to this to say no no we can use   technology as a tool to stop this right to prevent  this from really and we saw that was a huge   mistake so I think here the approach is exactly  the opposite to make sure that we're part of this   but part of this making sure that the Creator is  the center of all of this that really resonates   I think because uh like so much about this whole  Space is about ownership and like self-empowerment   right and if you don't start like the nucleus of  what it's all about which is the human beings who   are making the art and then from there figure out  the what and the how and the why it probably isn't   going to work out very well yeah yeah well  and it was about to be like uh the so the   super hype a few months ago or or a year a year  ago exactly but then it came the crypto crash   um there were a lot of newspapers talking about  that nfts were a scam and still people do not   trust in nfts well you mentioned uh earlier  we everyone uh is looking to avoid the nft uh   world and then suddenly AI appeared and all the  everyone started looking towards uh AI so still   bullish about web 3 so is it still the the future  so how would we be normalizing this yeah I think   it comes down to you know you weren't able to  sort of track ownership prior to being able to use   blockchain technology so it's not a matter of like  unfortunately web3 is tied to crypto in a certain   sense but it's more of like what this technology  can do and I think it's once people understand   what it does and that isn't this bad thing listen  there's Bad actors and players in the space and I   think we're slowly but surely seeing that go away  but like I remember I mean I started investing   crypto in 2017 then we had a crash and then D5  came along and Nate's came along so I I think it's   a healthy pullback but it's you know all of those  of us who work on the space we have to do it's a   bit harder now we have to really educate people  and be like here's all the cool things you can do   this is the technology that doesn't you can buy it  a credit card you can literally do all this stuff   and a fan never has to know that they're touching  crypto they don't have to if they don't want to   I think like the the all of those things for  sure and and maybe like a point of advice like   consumers don't really care about technology and  I think and every new wave of technology is the   tail is all this time right everybody talks about  it's AI it's web three is crypto and consumers   actually just don't care what they care about is  like what value is being provided to my life or   how is this making my life more entertaining or  connecting me with friends or you know helping   me make money right and I think that uh when you  abstract away all the technology and just focus   on those things that's when new technologies  really break out and and really become adopted   I don't know if you guys have seen this series uh  Netflix series called the playlist about Spotify   um yeah I've seen it you're saying that I I I  feel there are a lot of similarities between that   time and and the current and the current moment  so I obviously didn't uh I was so young to live   at that at that time but I feel it's exactly  the the same thing so we are about to uh see   something that will change forever but nothing  no one is trusting in it yet so yeah and I think   it's more of a matter it always takes time I mean  even social media and and all sorts of streaming   there was always this hesitation but I think it's  important for for artists and creators in other   fields to you know don't don't get left behind  and let the big players decide how it gets used   you know I come from management so for me I'm  always thinking artists first even though I'm   part of a big Corporation and it's always about  how does this bring value and how can this help   artists and fans alike and uh so I think it's  similar but it's different at the same time   because it's so geared on towards ownership versus  you know when streaming happened it was more about   um you know who owns digital music and who's  going to put it out the fastest and and make   deals with the majors and that's sort of what you  see play out and we're sort of dealing with it   now there's a backlash towards streaming and the  payout royalties and I think that's why web threes   exciting to many artists yeah cool well when  when one of the critics I have been hearing   uh from yesterday from the panels that the  that the people attended was that no one   uh was talking about cases of success or  at least uh people was trying to avoid   um talking about success and I don't understand  really why no one is talking about cases of   success in in the web 3 space so I like you  guys to to explain or get in further detail   on what you consider that something that involved  uh web3 strategy that that you developed it came   up with a with a case of success involving nfts  metaverse AI whatever so it's now the moment to   explain the audience there is hope and there is  really examples that uh things that can be done   to generate revenue and to the to the artists and  so you can you can explain if you if you want I   could take a little bit of a different spin on  it I think um success right very relative and   objective but I think that there are some  really interesting social media platforms   out there uh Noster Mastodon uh there's a few that  I'm forgetting and I think the key like difference   with these social media platforms is that you own  your own data you own the post that you've made   the photos that you upload the things that you've  liked and if you want to leave that platform and   go to another social media platform you just  connect your wallet or your profile and all   that stuff is uploaded and I think that's really  really interesting because it kind of presents a   paradigm shift for how people own their own data  across these different platforms that we interact   on and when I think about like in my opinion five  years from now investing in crypto or nfts could   be just 20 of the total value that's provided with  this technology whereas a lot of it really could   come down to data ownership and not being locked  into platform arms and some of the like really   interesting capabilities that I think blockchain  unlocks yeah I think the platform thing is such   an important thing to mention every time I'm  talking to different companies or Partners I'm not   interested in helping some new platform whether  it's web free ownership it has to be a white   label service it should be owned and operate  on artist sites you know I think eventually   we'll see how that all plays out you know but I  think there's such an important thing as we let   basically three four big companies own the whole  internet and that's what this is in response to   and every time I explain to my friends who don't  even work in entertainment what web3 is I'm like   think about your data your Instagram photo you  don't own that they're monetizing that that's your   content and that's always what everyone thinks in  terms of success for me my biggest success was in   2021 when I was in management and I did a project  with Alice in Wonderland and at the time it was   like board ape happen but it wasn't really it was  slowly bubbling up and we did a pfp project it was   called the Wonder Quest Alice Wonderland loves  fan Embassy so you basically got like a dragon   egg and you could hatch it or not and we partnered  with decentraland and they gave us a whole build   and you had a tokengated experience there with  uh quests and and performances and stuff um and   that went on sale and we grossed like over three  million dollars so that was that was fun for me   um and then most recently it Werner records we  had an artist BB rexa who did a song with Snoop   Dogg about smoking weed in space that came out on  420 for those of you not who don't live in America   420 is the international pot smoking day and I  had this crazy idea that let's create a virtual   spaceship where everyone can smoke weed together  and it was eight days before her album came out   so you got to preview her songs and you were a  little Avatar and you rolled a joint and it was   all on her website and it was a really fun little  metaverse experience didn't generate any Revenue   but it was just like a very cool marketing plan  the fans absolutely loved it and I just thought   it was something really fun that you could do and  I know Samuel will have a lot to say about this   but everyone always talks about how all album  and single releases in the future will be like   game-like and it's like let's do it now today  why why wait we have the technology now yeah   yeah for from rpov like at Sony in the orchard um  we feel like 90 of what we're seeing out of this   space uh the web 3 music space when it comes to  projects specifically so not like platforms and   you know different products and services but um  music projects that artists are putting out um   they fall in either two categories um for the most  part so you have your drops that are like what we   call skeuomorphic which essentially add nothing  new like there's no like real value there's no   reason why this thing should actually be an nft  or be like a web 3 thing it's more so uh you know   artists and their teams leaning into that side  of things for the novelty kind of aspect of it   and to get people to spend their dollars on this  quote-unquote new thing and uh at the end of the   day it's empty promises and then the other side  of it is you know maybe they're too Innovative   or they're too catering towards this Echo chamber  that is you know kind of like the the D gen world   for lack of a better term so people are very  familiar with web3 are kind of buying into   buy sell trade essentially um so what  we're what we view as successful is you   know a project that actually adds something  new and and real kind of like tangible value   um to music fans so not not as much like  Traders um so you know you feel like   key metric for success for a while was like  minting out you know x amount of dollars but for   us you know we're looking at different metrics and  I'll give you an example I haven't launched a ton   um you know in the few months that I've been um  in the seat that I'm in now but we did launch   something uh for the metal community so it's  a band called the shredders it's a virtual   band so similar to you know so similar  to uh like the gorillas you could say   um you know the team behind it is you know  kind of like iconic real metal musicians   um and they wanted to create a space for uh metal  fans who they felt like were getting like left out   of this increasingly like digital world that we're  living in today um and so we did that um kind of   the idea was to really put you know this band  in the community's hands they kind of control   it they vote different things into existence and  you know it was very well received for the most   part from the metal Community who's super vocal  about what they do and don't like um but it's   cool because you could take that feedback back and  kind of like Implement some of it and I guess like   on the on the Innovative end of that project we  wanted to test a couple of things and we're going   to continue to do that this just launched by the  way like about a month ago now um and minted out   um which you know I was just saying isn't like  a key metric but we were excited to see that   um but anyways on the Innovative end uh we wanted  to test out uh you know what would happen or how   we could get like the community to Rally around  um this band and so we linked the first digital   collectible offering which was an access pass you  know everyone's pretty clear about like what that   means but um we linked the access pass to Spotify  data um that was like a long and hard conversation   with Spotify because they're pretty strict about  um you know commercial rights and things like that   um but uh the nft was linked to Spotify data so  it you know essentially like Powers up visually   in holders wallets as the shredders hit  these different streaming Milestones   um different rewards are unlocked Etc and we're  going to continue to kind of test that model for   subsequent drops interesting and well this  this question goes to Christina being the   representative of uh the main Collective Society  for writing in Spain uh I like uh to know um how   is guy would use uh web 3 to help the artists  that you represent to generate more Revenue   well I mean what sky does is ensure that the  creators that their members are correctly   remunerated so we're talking about all these  new spaces and platforms and and services but   you know but even going back to Spotify you know  very very few composers actually can make a living   out of Spotify I mean it's you know we're talking  about all these great opportunities but at the end   if nobody's paying for anything creators will  not continue to to create because they they   need to make a living out of this so um web 3  and metaverse and all that well what this guy   is trying to do is to make sure you know  what is this is this like a live stream   then we have these rights which are involved we  need to get a license the problem here is that   um create I think all creators all composers are  really excited they want to get their music out   there they want to get their works out there you  know it's not just to make money they really want   to to make their Works accessible to everybody  but if if there's no return for that they have   to find other jobs obviously and we just want  to make it possible for composers to make a   living out of their work and when you talk about  all these new metaverse and all of that you know   I always think that it's you know these really  good ideas and these really you know really cool   um Technologies whatever but we're always  forgetting about the composer you know it's   always the intermediaries and it's always been  the same way I mean even the the beginning of   collective management it was in theater and it  was Crea it was directors and and authors trying   to make a living and knowing that there was an  intermediary there which was actually the one   which is putting the space and and charging  the money for the computer the consumer but   they always needed the work and then when you  know when when when internet started it was   the same you had the internet platform saying  oh I'm just putting the space but they were   the ones making the money and here for me it  sounds a little bit similar I mean we've all   had talked about technology it's all great I think  composers love technology they use it to to create   but if you don't remunerate correctly the the  work the musical work they're just not going   to be more works because they can't live from this  and so what's Sky's approach to this let's license   this let's make it as easy as possible in many  cases we don't really know what I mean I used to   be the head of the digital licensing department  it's guy I remember people would come to me with   really nice ideas really cool ideas many times I  didn't even know what they were talking about but   you know it sounded really cool it sounded like  oh we're going to get all the music out there   they're just gonna you know with this with this  um little device I have and I can do this and that   and I have an avatar but at the end it's you know  most of these unfortunately didn't really weren't   very successful but Skye what they have to do  is to make sure we can give quickly a license   and that we don't do any type of obstacles  so that that business can develop but we   have to think about the author I mean we have to  remunerate the author if we don't remunerate the   author correctly there will simply be no content  for all you guys to put in your spaceship and you   know but don't you think blockchain technology  could help an artist get paid faster because   I know for my management days you know I had an  artist who didn't have a publishing deal and we   just signed an admin deal because you're like  you just have money sitting there for those of   you who don't know you need a publishing deal  to just unlock money that's their whole job and   I think with blockchain technology like let's say  Spotify paid well and Spotify your stream happens   your you know 0.001 Cent goes directly to your  account right afterwards versus now or it takes   a month to get paid I mean to me that's well it's  true it's not what I'm spending my time doing but   I think to me that's gonna be the game I mean I've  I've listened to this many times these past years   chain and with other types of services where  you could directly link the musician or the   composer with his with this public right yeah but  at the end you need strong rights you need strong   copyright laws in order to allow that Creator  to actually be entitled to receive something in   exchange I think if you leave the Creator Alone  by himself in some cases they'll be successful   they'll be able to monetize directly with an  nft or whatever but if you but most of them need   the protection of the entire community of creators  that's when you put all the repertoires together   and you offer that to Spotify to whatever that's  what makes that repertoire that you're capable   of really negotiating a good deal because if  you just if you're on your own unless you're   a really really big Superstar which usually  it's not the case especially for young creators   you just don't have the Levering The Leverage  to negotiate with these platforms and at the end   there are big giants behind this and they want  your data and they and and they're not interested   in the musical Works they're interested in your  data so they can sell it to Google and to YouTube   and to whatever to Microsoft so that they can you  know also one of the things we're a little bit   worried is you know all these platforms you have  all these algorithms which are actually telling   you what you have to listen to what you have to  watch you know where's the transparency there I   mean my kids they're they have no choice really  because the machine is telling them what they have   to listen to what they have to buy and what that  and what they're what I mean last time I was on   Netflix I didn't even end up watching anything  because there were so many recommendations and   there were so many different you know links if you  like this you'll like this and then at the end I'd   even watch any movie because I was too exhausted  after so many you know so many recommendations   and playlists and everything I ended up just  saying okay I'm not I'm too late anyway but   but the idea that there's I think it's almost  like a too romantic idea you you have to protect   the author and at the end there may be many of  these initiatives are you know young people and   but I think usually they're controlled by very  powerful companies which are controlling all of   this and they're controlling the data so I think  we have to make all of this much more transparent   talking about algorithms I'm talking about who  is behind all of this who you know who is really   manipulating all of this and you have to allow  for a safe environment for creators to be able   to create I have a little bit the impression  also that they're all almost a little bit like   obsessed with having to put content out there like  hysterically because they have to get viral they   have to be on all the platforms they have to  be on all social media it you know it's almost   like you're not letting the Creator create you  know because they're they have this pressure to   put all this content out there they don't even  call it a musical work anymore it's content no   so I think you know it's it's a great idea  but I just think that we have to sort of   settle down and remember that we're talking  about creators when which need time to create   it's very interesting and I hope there  are few questions uh after and we can uh   get the discussion uh further because it's really  really interesting what were you uh saying now but   this this question uh goes to Jackie because she  represents Werner which is uh one of the measures   that has been showing more Advantage uh in  building and deploying strategies uh into the web3   space more actively uh we were discussing before  that in web 3 there's no competition but there is   competitive there is competition between companies  I like it due to to explain briefly what are the   top uh strategies that you are now doing um yeah  at the current moment so what have you been doing   um yeah for sure I mean I actually  was at Universal before this uh and   part of the reason uh I left was because I  wanted to be at a more Innovative uh major   um and you know obviously I work at work  records some of the front line labels so   I'm the one who actually you know is working day  in day out with the artists and their teams and   the marketing teams and then we have we're  actually talking about it you know sort of   the corporate teams who helped do those larger  deals and you know they have deals with sandbox   um I think there's Open Sea I think it's public  uh or on on the road to that and and various   different companies but for me it's more just  about finding the right opportunities and being   part of a company that doesn't just say no right  off the bat and says all right let's find a way to   make this work let's make sure you know everything  looks right and is safe and the correct way to do   it but like I feel like being at you know the the  smallest of the three Majors they're incentive to   be Innovative and things is great we have our  new CEO who comes from YouTube who's really uh   building you know our Tech infrastructure so I  feel like it's a good place to really experiment   and uh and work on these sort of things but at  the end of the day it's a major label you know   and the focus is not it always I don't know what  I'm going to say I'm gonna I'm gonna rail back   okay Jr you work for for the orchard but  at the same time you work for Sony which is   like another major record label that have been  deploying and uh some web3 strategies I wanted   to extend another another question that might be  embarrassing but we are here just to to to discuss   so web 3 uh wants to bring the creators uh the  control over their content over the their rights   so uh where the major record  labels fit into this new paradigm   um I I guess I'll give you a cop-out answer  we're figuring it out we're trying to figure   it out uh we're trying to figure out how  to like add the most value I think like the   I think we're we're we've moved from that this  territory like when I when I started at Sony I   feel like we were for the most part like the teams  that I would that I would speak to so like legal   Finance marketing um all these teams that I have  to work with now um the the vibe for lack of a   better word was that you know web3 is potentially  you know this existential threat to like you know   our business like our model um you know for you  know reasons that you were alluding to but I think   um like I was saying like education was a  huge part of my first you know few months   um in the door um so now I think people see the  opportunity people also and and to be a little bit   more direct I think people see us investing  time and energy into web3 as an opportunity   to actually retain this talent and um like  unlock new opportunities for ourselves as well   um so I just wanted to add to that because  actually when I was at Universal I spent a   lot of discussions what is the role of the label  in web 3 and trying to figure that out you know   and uh I I truly believe that it's you know it's  part of your sort of marketing plan so for every   album or single release you always have you know  what's our social media strategy what's our tour   strategy our merch strategy and all these sorts of  you know different verticals and now you're gonna   have what's my web three strategy so when you're  releasing anything you're always going to have it   be part of your marketing plan and whether it's  purely marketing promo play or if it's Revenue   driven it's kind of both or is it integrating  into merch I love playing with like nfcs and   doing the physical and digital and that sort of  stuff so there's so many opportunities that it   can all play in together but I think it's really  part of that marketing strategy and that's what   major labels are you you sign them for two reasons  money and for the marketing and promo and without   that you know I think those are the two main areas  that they can really help uh so that's that's sort   of what I believe and I see we're gonna see as we  move forward okay and we were highlighting before   uh Warner as one of the companies in the music  space that have been more Innovative but we need   to talk about Coachella as well because Coachella  was one of the major brands to first use nfts as   a strategy and it was really a big success then  it happened something and everything went down my   question is are you still bullish on on nfts and  if you are still bullish how has the concept of   the nft changed towards uh the first uh strategy  that you took yeah the uh so the first strategy   was like early 2022 and was very very much  so of the moment where we were creating nft   media attaching physical goods and benefits and  experiences to those and then selling them to fans   and then rewarding the artist that created that  so you know there's over six figures given out to   photographers and videographers and musicians and  like illustration artists at Coachella and then   people got really amazing photo books and posters  and lifetime tickets to Coachella which was like   those those nfts sold for a lot but they also have  literally lifetime value and that was the first   time because of nft Technology the first time  that Coachella could ever sell lifetime passes   because someone could buy that and then when they  get tired of Coachella six years later they can   go sell that to somebody else and it retains its  value so it's a really a win-win for everybody   the way that we think about it now is in addition  to what we want to do the collaborations we want   to build with performing artists very much so  around loyalty I think that and that's like   really the Hot Topic word for nfts and crypto  as it relates to Big Brands these days you see   it with Nike and swoosh and Starbucks and their  whole loyalty program that they built and loyalty   really is about like knowing who your consumers  are no knowing the actions that they take and   then rewarding them for those actions right and  uh nfts provide a really really great way to do   that if you can let people by just scanning  a QR code or an NFC chip tell you the actions   that they've done online or offline and they can  receive a token for that that token can be free   it can be a few dollars it can be thirty dollars  in a large amount of cases for Coachella we see   these as being just free and that tells us that  gives us a group of people who have taken this   particular action that we can then reward with a  personalized experience online or a personalized   experience at the festival itself so I think  that is a really interesting Innovation on the   Loyalty model and it makes that data around who  your consumers are and what they're doing a lot   more are visible and also a lot more shareable  right like if we have random example Coachella   has a big partner that's going to be on site  activating and they want to reward everybody   who went and did this action we can easily they  can see that data it's just transparent on the   blockchain right and allows people to really start  building their own kind of um tacked on loyalty   programs around Coachella consumers and I think  that's why you see Starbucks and Nike and some of   these other big Brands really investing in web 3  loyalty yeah it's very interesting now it's in the   end a festival has a major a big Community a huge  Community same as artists same as record labels   for example so it's very interesting how in the  next two two years the use of nfts will probably   change completely but I want I like to extend like  the question to all the room and I like you to   raise the hands to all those who are still bullish  on on nfts who of you are still bullish on nfts   how many have you done or been involved in the  nft project cool oh and you're not all bullish no my question is is this is it specifically  because that because uh well there are a lot   of interesting platforms like sound serenade gudu  who are uh in well thinking of well or trying to   put like a a new format of releasing music in in  music nfts then there is another use of the nfts   that could be Community but my question now is  to is to ER and is that that do you think that   nfts will be a new format of uh Edition for  artists for musicians to be releasing them   uh are you saying like to release music in  the form of entities or just like Collectibles   or in general collecting listening owning be  part of the community so yeah yeah absolutely   um I'm definitely bullish um so uh yeah I think  uh you know brands for reasons that he alluded to   um I don't think it's just musicians but um yes  definitely artists and does it make sense that   uh digital music distribution platform like  the orchard uh get integration with music   nft platforms like another uh DSP just to provide  content leads to them this this is something that   you see it is likely to happen in in the next two  years for example I think so you know I certainly   hope so I think um yeah it's just like I was  saying earlier a slow burn um you know we've   been operating a certain way for however long  um so it's a it's a big ship to turn around   um but uh yeah through conversations with guys  like you guys and and uh Revelator and others   um I think we all like even the higher up see the  value in it um so I'm hoping it's it's kind of   a matter of time cool well I I got surprised  I must to say that um I I expected more Hope   on on on nfts in in the room but well I I mean  wait let's rephrase it are you bullish on web3 what'd she say I maybe um maybe we can we can get   a mic from from the control and what  word do you like to use now instead it's not very inclusive sorry whoa I I just find  it a really cringe term and I just thought if you   say are you bullish on web3 I'm never going  to raise my hand to that because I just like   it doesn't feel like a term that feels like so  specific to the space and when you're working with   musicians like I don't work with specifically web  3 only musicians they were you know in all Realms   um and so like I don't know that that term just  feels like quite uncomfortable to me so that's   why I didn't raise my hand to that even though  I'm like working on something in that space   no by the way I totally relate never use these  terms you know in my day-to-day job but when   you're kind of in this microcosm of web three  people you kind of just like all right let's   just go with the flow but yeah and I think that's  to your point that's part of the problem is that   the crypto bro culture is sort of what's the  off-putting part of you know where web3 has   gone recently and that's why I feel like we kind  of need a Rebrand all right so let's try again   who's excited and feels like web3 can help  the music industry move forward there we go me too okay well there is there any  other question in the in the room hi hello um you've been talking about the  value proposition for the users and the artists   all the time and I would like to know if  in the pilots that you have been involved   with nfts and blockchain that if there is  something that you have done that will have   been impossible to do without blockchain or nfts  I mean there is an alternative technology that   you could have used to do the same thing or it was  indispensable to have any of these and blockchain um the one of the examples I gave around  lifetime passes for Coachella it would   have been Impossible on any other database  only possible through like true custody of   that digital asset right another thing would  have been going back to like the community   and loyalty piece being able to organize people  by common interests and activities that they've   partaken in and allowing them to like meet each  other on Discord and having nfts in order to go   certain places at Coachella we wouldn't  have been able to do that before either I think there was another question hi hello okay um so I wanted to ask um do you have  any recommendations for like solid nft strategies   for like more sort of Grassroots projects just for  context I get the feeling that these strategies   generally work when artists or brands or labels  be it festivals have already like very big sort   of fan bases and then out of that pre-existing fan  base there's a subsection that is kind of into the   nft space already so within that subcategory then  this is where these strategies seem to really have   an impact so say that now you know we're working  with like much smaller projects much smaller   artists and you don't really know you know I  mean they have relatively small fan bases and you   don't know how what portion of that might be into  this space how can we leverage this technology to   increase the fan base in general and to you know  engage more the people that might actually be into   it I think that's a excellent question you know  right now you kind of have you know there's more   established artists and then there's specific  web three artists who you know drop on sound   and audience and all those sort of places and I  think you know for me kind of the first step is   have a Discord server I actually hate Discord but  I you know use it all the time and uh and advise   and help you know but that's the one place where  there's no algorithm unlike you know social media   where you can directly communicate one-to-one  with your fans and find out what they want do   they want a loyalty pass all right cool let's do  one do they not one great do they just want to   do community meetups but I think using these I now  call them Community chat platforms as sort of step   one to seeing how large your audience is you know  there's this common phrase you know ten thousand   strong so in our current music ecosystem you know  many people talk about this you have your casual   listeners and your super fans they're treated all  the same but imagine a world where you can reward   your super fans is it 10 people 100 a thousand  it doesn't matter you might as you should super   serve them because that lifetime deep connection  you have with them they're fans forever they're   going to evangelize that band to everyone else and  now you can reward them or they can showcase that   they're the number one fan or they were first to  listen they went to x amount of shows that's you   know sort of the value are you working at where  it can add so I think you have to sort of start   at day one like I think that's super interesting  the reason we don't have those use cases yet is   because it's hard to do so it's easier to do  it more established but I'm definitely looking   at you know smaller artists and like let's start  them in that field and I think especially in the   electronic space that audience is always the first  to sort of you know like new technologies and   that's an excellent place to sort of experiment  and try couldn't agree more what I really loved   was like figure out what they want first you  don't need any technology to do that right just   like talk to the fans figure out what they love  about whatever Community it is you're trying to   serve and then don't refer to it as web3 or nfts  it doesn't really matter right like this is just   a a pass to some sort of experience or benefit  you know and it could be positioned as such yep um yeah just just wanted to test uh the  panel's kind of reaction to uh to to sort   of a positioning statement and see what you  guys react from your your different uh your   different positions and this kind of ties into  what Arno said about uh about the playlist   um and you know the Spotify uh series um  it seems like denying that web 3 is going   to be a thing for music is just not plausible  because we went from analog to digital the CD era   um you know we were playing CDs in the 80s  and 90s and you wouldn't deny that we'd go   to downloads and that was MP3 and P2P file sharing  and then you know that went to streaming and you   know moved to web 2. like we're not going to stay  in web 2 forever as a technology and music's you   know not going to be exempt from that so isn't  it I just sort of uh you know what's the word   I guess inevitable that it's more about when and  how than if music will go to web3 did you do you   guys agree with that or uh would you postulate  otherwise I totally agree I also think it's what   is your definition of web3 I'm sure we probably  all here have five different uh ways to explain   in our world view so obviously technology is  constantly evolving so of course it's going   to go somewhere else you know everyone always  talks about like oh web 2.5 it's like are we at   web 2.2 or we have web 2.7 like when do we get  into web 3 and what is web3 and time will tell   okay you have to add to that I feel like uh I  don't know it's also going to be hard to tell   like when we are uh like I guess exactly what  you just said right like I think it's uh when it   does happen um it's you know not gonna feel like  the Bull Run of of whatever like 20 20 21 2020   um like I think it's going to be a lot more like  subtle than that I think it's going to be a layer   um that is kind of like integrated into like how  we do things now um so yeah that's the only thing   that adds here your response yeah I think nobody  cares when like your favorite uh photo platform   switches from jpg to PNG right it's going to be  probably a similar type of switch and it's going   to unlock some capabilities that people will love  and nobody will really know and it's a it's like   um day by day nothing changes and then looking  back everything's different right I feel like   that's usually the case with new technologies  especially entertainment space okay I mean because   I'm probably the only one which is a little bit  different from the rest I think that probably it's   inevitable but I think that if we're not careful  you may end up with very low quality content   and um probably that was not the case before I  think the big difference now is that before it   was as you say no the change between analog to  digital for mp3 or whatever but I think here the   risk is that you're having you're making  composers compete also against machines   which and in this enormous technology but if but  it for me the risk is if you don't treat creators   correctly there's just not going to be content  in the future you mean you you need to remunerate   correctly in order to give that incentive so  that they keep creating quality music or quality   content if you just focus on technology I get I  know you have to do that and we have to allow all   these new platforms to develop but at the end  if you forget about the content there's just   not going to be anything to include in these  platforms or to give an nft next to you know   absolutely yeah there are more questions I think  there was a question over there and then one here uh thank you um well this is probably more uh like  a conceptual question following what Christina   said before and also what you were asking are  now about what's the role of the labels in this   new decentralized universe that we are looking  at now but I think that even now we are seeing   many artists becoming more than the other artists  they have to be Community manager impress officer   and video editor and I don't know how many things  more so I think that decentralized sounds great   in terms of what's the user experience but I also  think that they always have to be a team to help   the artist to be focused on what he has to do that  is making music so we decentralized doesn't mean   that we don't need professionals to become a team  for the artists being doing what they want to do   maybe this is not a question but I really wanted  to make this clear because I think that I I maybe   be suspect because I spend most of my career in  a label but I definitely think that this must be   people like you here that need to help the artists  to become artists just just relation to this   there will I think like a couple of months ago  maybe half a year ago it was it wasn't related to   music it was related to audio visual and it was  a like a Manifesto that was published by French   directors and screenwriters they were like trying  to object to the what they call the uberization   of culture because they were saying that we're  being forced to produce so much so quickly to   put everything everywhere that at the end they  just don't have time to really create no and I   think that's one of the risks of all the social  media and web 3 and everything is that they they   have to do so many things and get out so much  content so quickly that you know sometimes they   forget that these are human beings which need a  creative process in order to make something not   to produce content I totally agree with you but I  think you're missing the point on web3 I actually   had an inter interesting conversation that just  happened about a week and a half ago I'm working   with an artist on this platform called Medallion  it's a white label service so lives owned and   operated on the artist's website and you know the  manager was saying we're just so concerned about   bringing all these things to the art as well when  I was like dude I totally get it like I don't care   about tech talk but you have to play that ball  game and it's an unfortunate part of where the   music ecosystem is right now and that's a whole  separate conversation but you know the manager   came back and said especially Community you know  uh pass or a plot you know for for fans and and   the manager came back and goes the artist loves  this he's so excited about this hell actually   because we did a very low lift he's like he'll  actually do all these extra things and all this   stuff that we were all sort of surprised he's  like this is so much better than me having to   film a tick tock you know what I mean because  forget at the end of the day you're nothing   without your fans your art is so important  of course but if you're not delivering to   your super fans then what's the point and that's  sort of my ethos and what I'm trying to build at   Warner is deepening that connection and rewarding  fans and uh I find it very rare that an artist   doesn't want to do that posting on Tick Tock I  get and I agree with okay well we are running   out of time there's still last question please  do it very quickly and we will wrap up Chris okay so Christina thank you for your intervention  and for um taking care of artists and authorship   because it has [Music] um it has  already been seen in the history of   um music industry that big Tech corporations and  big players I mean have harmed lots of artists   and their rights but you mentioned a world  a word that is transparent so um and I mean um this guy is not known for their transparency so   um have

2023-07-04 09:52

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