JUMP.V: Interview with Mitchell Geisler, CEO (Leveljump Healthcare)
hi everyone welcome on money i am mark and today i will talk about leverljump healthcare a company focused on revenue growth and new opportunities within healthcare and to talk about the company i will talk with mitchell geisler ceo of the company how are you michelle i'm doing well mark thanks for having me here today it's always great to have an opportunity to talk about the company and happy new year to everybody as we get ready to start a great new year for us here at level jump yeah for sure it's like my first interview of the year and you know like i'm very excited to to talk with uh talk about level jump um so could you stay could you tell us more about the company what's the story behind leverage of healthcare yeah absolutely so level jump healthcare uh you know we originally started with uh cts which are our current operations it's called uh canadian teleradiology services and when we started a healthcare company years ago we wanted to be involved in healthcare for a number of reasons um obviously we'd like that you know you're helping people reaching out to people uh and the meaning what that means to it because i i just think you want to do something that's fulfilling and you know makes you feel whole as a person it's not just about making money of course shareholders at the end of the day we all want to make money but but that's that's the result at the end of a journey of a long journey so we were interested in healthcare at the time we were interested in medical imaging and how it pertains to radiology mris ultrasounds whether it was having these centers or having some kind of service involved in the business we were interested in in radiology because it what we realized as we were studying and kind of investigating the direction we wanted to go in is that radiology diagnostic imaging is the core focus one of the staples of the healthcare system if you will when people go into uh emergency room or the hospital a lot of times they have to have an x-ray or an ultrasound when they uh have an issue you go to your doctor and you say oh my back's hurting my neck is hurting you know i don't feel right uh certainly a lot of diseases everything is always detected through imaging so we started to realize okay not only is it rewarding and it gives gives back and we're doing something purposeful but on the on the business opportunity side we have a lot of opportunity here it's not going to go somewhere it's something that is really a staple a core of health care it's something that's going to be recession proof so we started you know venturing out as to what we could do and uh we came across this company cts and we purchased it back in 2009 and uh we've been operating and growing it uh ever since along with some other healthcare ventures and about i guess a year and a half ago now we said hey we have cts it's a growing company we think we can go to the market and then we can really expand our focus from there and that's how we kind of get to the inception of level jump healthcare if you will and we said okay obviously our core to this date has been radiology services but what else can we do and we started to look at the entire telehealth market certainly coming uh you know at that time we were in the midst of the start of the pandemic uh maybe just a few months into it we thought we've seen all these telehealth companies we're like wait we've been doing telehealth companies cts since 2000 you know in five we've been running it since 2009. so we're already kind of like experts we understand this marketplace really well so we said this is an interesting story we think to bring to the marketplace where we could take the telehealth and grow so you know your our mission is focused it massaged a little bit over you know as we became public and look at that and and looking forward and now we're really focused on becoming an services company based on providing telehealth services uh to remote communities urban centers wherever they're needed primarily in radiology but now we're trying to expand that into other services as well okay so we will talk about your acquisitions you did uh later in the interview but first because you're talking about the business and the market so what's the the business model for radiology and how big is the market yeah so for the core functions that we have to data of the radiology um you know the the market that the flow is great to basically a flow of funds like right now we service the ontario marketplace excuse me and we deal with uh the insurance provider which is the government in ontario uh so we have a really good flow of funds which is great we don't really run a lot of accounts uh receivable they get paid all within like 60 days generally speaking so we always have the flow coming in of money which is really important as a public company that you can count on and shareholders can rely on but taking a step back and looking at like cts we're one of the leaders right now in in ontario in the country we service you know nearly a few dozen hospitals we have dozens of radiologists that work for us uh we've kind of entrenched our name and we continue to grow and add more con contracts the beautiful thing about telehealth and in this case teleradiology is that it can be done from anywhere oh yeah for sure yeah yeah so as we've uh invested resources you know particularly in the last year and that we're able to start looking at expanding not not just in other parts of canada but we can go into other markets as well and there's a lot of under serviced areas uh you know whether you're talking about caribbean islands you're talking about southeast asia you know certain countries where they want either canadian or u.s board certified radiologists where they want access to these services so we really see it you know the market size i i know right now it's like about 26 billion dollars the tele radiology market and it continues to grow each year you know the reality is it's choppy and we're here and we believe like we're setting ourselves up for long-term success that we can expand and again because it's remote and because our doctors our radiologists are the ones that are in demand we really like um the world is your oyster in a sense right you know we have a lot of opportunity you can't do it all overnight uh you can't just go into this country in that country you know one time we have to have some infrastructure and what but uh when it's not brick and mortar it's a lot easier to supply that services so we really think we have a great opportunity here okay and so when you're talking about opportunities so i guess might be passing by growth and so on first just like the big picture what's your growth strategy because you you have acquisitions incoming so what's yeah what's the big picture out of it yeah so for level jump the growth strategy is twofold one obviously is always organic growth um you know we wanna cts can continue to grow as we've discussed there's no end to that additionally you know what you said we're going to get into the acquisitions but we've announced some and we think the acquisitions are important uh they're important uh for us to grow rapidly they're important for us to entrench ourselves in other areas of telehealth or of diagnostic imaging in the case of some of our acquisitions so when we bring it all together it's both organic and acquisition but when we acquire a company we want to say how can that does that have organic growth to it as well right how can we grow that so that the pie just keeps getting bigger and bigger and i think when you look at the telehealth market it's really still in its infancy you know it's really yes healthcare obviously has been around forever but the idea of telehealth is still relatively new and what we've seen uh coming into out of the pandemic although right now in lockdown i'm not sure out of it but as we progressed through it is that um healthcare officials administrators government officials everybody is really taking on to telehealth uh from that perspective which is great in the states you've seen we've seen medicare codes change to allow for telehealth uh here in ontario they're allowing doctors to do you know your gp can can do a call with you and get paid for it where before they couldn't okay so some of these things they may not affect cts today but it's changing the dialogue right it's changing the view of how everybody sees things and on the patient side people are used to this so it's just becoming bigger and bigger and we believe as level jump a company that you know our operations are cash flow positive that you know we've been around and proven our model that we've set ourselves up that when the the dust settles from this kind of infancy for telehealth that level job is going to be a company that's going to be there and growing for a long time to come and for sure it is different interesting because you know like on a personal way i would have never thought that i could see a doctor using uh tele health and like i always thought i would i would have to see like a doctor like in real and the fact that you have all these opportunities in coming it's so much easier for us for the person that need like a doctor or anything and also look for the companies and for sure it's a huge place and there is a high growth opportunity yeah and everybody's just taking on to it now right like two years ago most people wouldn't have thought about talking to their doctor on their own or something like that and again we may not be doing that specific thing right now but it's just the greater the acceptance the greater uh inclusion it becomes and everybody starts adopting these services and then they take more interest in what we're doing and so because right now we're talking about telehealth could you talk about the acquisition you you are doing about tele hospital what revenues you expect from them why is it a smart acquisition for you yeah absolutely yeah we're really excited about the telehotel hospital acquisition so it's a company down in the midwest in the united states and its founders they uh establish this company what i really like is the code is how similar it is to cts they established it because they're in uh the main city in the state and what they realized was in the rest of the state uh it was under service there wasn't enough services now here at cts we specialize in small urban and rural communities right so these communities that don't have enough radiologists to do reading they then the patients goes to the emergency room department uh they have their ct or their ultrasound their mri whatever it is they need they're able to then call our doctors to do the interpretation so we're making sure under service areas have services that you or i would expect in a big city like a montreal toronto uh new york wherever you may be they've done the same thing at telehospital they've now gone in and they've said okay but not just for they're not they're not in radiology they're in everything else so they're going out to small rural communities and they could be small community hospitals they could be urgent care centers if it's a really small town but small and small and small really adds up over time when you put it all together and they're providing emergency room doctor services remotely they're providing uh consults for full appointments with neurologists urologists uh pain specialists as to treatment plans of what you can do they've really taken kind of like what we're doing with radiology but they're doing it for everything so these patients they go to their hospital or to the urgent care center the doctor there isn't the specialist isn't the type of doctor that can give them all the care they need they then can video chat with the doctor you're with in the small town get the specialists on the video and have a proper consult and then you're still getting that same care that you need and what's wonderful about that is they've really grown the company uh they should did for 2021 around uh 6 million u.s so you know closer to eight million canadian because our numbers and that we report for level jump are canadian uh but about six million u.s with about 800 to as much as a million in ebitda and they're rapidly growing like they've been growing like crazy over the last few years so we really see like them getting up to eight to 10 million revenue this year with over a million dollars yeah and going from there and when we found them uh what they liked about us is is myself and our management team we had experience both in canada and we've been in the in the u.s marketplace before they liked the
fact that level jump was public on on the tsxv and trades you know it's dtc eligible and trades obviously down in the united states as well so they liked all the facets that we had the primary physician who started it is actually going to stay on and he's going to continue to run it and he wanted our business he wanted our business expertise to say hey how do we expand it from here right how do i go into other states you know how do we go from 10 million to 40 million that's what over the next few years that's what he wants to do because he wasn't sure he's you know how to kind of manage that happening so we really think there's a lot of cohesion there the impact on the numbers i suggested to level jump is obvious you know if if we could do eight nine million or more us this year and have a million u.s dollars of ebitda obviously like cts that means cash flow positive operations falling to the bottom line you know making sure we're positive revenue company uh going forward so we think that there's a lot of opportunity there as a side note what's interesting they offer literally about 20 30 different types of doctors and services the only thing they don't offer is radiology services and all their sites need both are matching nearly all right yeah so he so they're like oh this is great can you also then can we start offering radiology services and we we're familiar with the us marketplace already we're like yeah we absolutely can we have doctors that are licensed we can get them licensed in your state and uh and we can so we just think there's all kinds of synergies and it's just a perfect acquisition and going back to what we talked about our mission of becoming not just radiology focus but telehealth focus this really encompasses it all and uh and that's why we think that it's you know it's just going to be really good for level jump which ultimately will be good for our shareholders well sure no it is different this morning you know as we were saying like the numbers you are projecting for 2022 they are not like drawn like somewhere you know like impossible to reach as like as you say like you have the market you have all the the technologies for so this is definitely interesting and so you also plan to to acquire your real-time medical and insurance and show vision you you took stakes recently in them so could you discuss could you develop about them yeah we absolutely can so we have uh real-time medical is basically a competitor to cts they also supply remote radiology services and we you know wanted to we thought there's like obvious obvious synergies there obviously you know it made sense uh so we just had an opportunity that came in front of us to buy out some of their shareholders uh so we have done that there's been a lot of announcements uh we're up to uh penning certain approvals as much as uh i think just under 25 or 27 percent now of real time and we're hoping to acquire more as as the year proceeds you know so those talks continue but obviously you know as we get up to a sizable position there will be a lot of a lot of synergies there and would you know make us one of the larger the the largest tele radiology play in in canada you know and really set us up to expand beyond canada and to other markets like we were talking about earlier so it's a great opportunity for us and i think you know for for the fact that we were doing it uh to date most of what we've done has all been a share swap uh preserving cash has been great so it's just really exciting to you know kind of have that vision and be able to see it kind of starting to come to fruition okay sorry yeah no it's going to say and then on the uh on the shaw lens jawline's is it's a little bit different it's uh obviously still in healthcare and it but it's not you know it's not in telehealth or radiology but it's an opportunity that uh was before myself and and uh and our management team and we loved the product so much and believe in its potential that we said it's something that should be you know within level job and then we'll see where we go from there and what they do is they have a product on the market that uh it treats a condition for people who wear glasses called anisoconia which is when you people who wear glasses when they're looking through their left and right eye and how it signals back to the brain of what it is you're seeing yet there's a time delay and that creates a lot of pain such as dizziness neck pain back pain uh nausea tired eyes sleepy eyes all these things because you're always straining and your brain is thinking at different speed they created a patented technology when the doctor measures uh takes your your um your measurements for your lenses they take some additional measurements they put it into their software and the lens is cut a little bit differently so when you get your glasses it takes about a day or two to get used to but then after that people who put it on they never want to take it off because it really exposes a lot a lot of issues so we just believe that this company offers a lot of opportunity so we're going to continue to try and acquire more of the company because you know if it's if it's as big as we think it can ultimately it'll benefit the level jump shareholders so looking forward to that you know and that and that just uh just one thing reminds me uh even though you know we're a lot of services company they have a patented technology at shaw lands and uh going back to the tele hospital they actually have a few patented technologies as well okay so while we we're not primarily a technology company it's certainly great as we go forward as a telehealth company that we're acquiring you know technologies that are unique and and could bring a lot of big bang if you will to to the company okay at the bachelor lens are they canadian or american they're canadian uh their patent is a u.s patent but they're they're canadian okay okay i see and um i was wondering um because you know so for um the first company we're talking about about italian hospital you are acquiring a hundred percent uh directly so why didn't you do this as well for a real-time insurance just kind of the mechanics of where those companies are what they're ready to sell at this time and you know and how that gets done so it's not obviously we want to acquire more as i've alluded to so we'll continue to focus on that um you know and don't don't forget in addition to uh the tele hospital and real time and course shall lends that we have the acquisition of our ihfs which are the independent healthcare facilities uh east of toronto that we're acquiring and those ones we've announced we have the financing uh in place got great terms with uh td bank uh td canada trust uh loan which is always great to have a you know a big bank behind you with proper loans you know a 10-year loan at less than four percent so that's fantastic so okay we're looking forward we've announced that we've got ministry approval on one of the three centers we're acquiring uh so we think uh that that'll close uh hoping the end of this month that i don't know if with everything going on it could get delayed a couple weeks but hopefully later this month that that's going to close uh you know so that also is going to come under the fold you know when you start looking at you know where level jump is today and where it might be in six months from now it could be vastly different okay you know it was just out of curiosity because i saw they were like i would say sort of like two different type of acquisitions so i was just curious like on the stretch strategy you were doing yeah it's it's just sometimes it's just what you can acquire so it's you know how many what are the what are the selling parties willing to sell that's all okay some people want out some people aren't ready to get out you know you know different terms so that's all okay and so you are doing so to acquire this company you you gain warrants and shares so right now you have am 88 sorry you didn't cheerfully debuted what would you be your target or your maximum if you have one of shares that we would have outstanding yeah in the future um never thought of it that way i think we we don't look at it that way i think a smart management team you look at it what is it you're getting for the share right so like uh people who are watching this when you see a company just issue shares like i don't know to somebody for promotion or something which they're not supposed to do anyways but you know depends where they are what jurisdiction but that's not really getting you anything right but like if we're issuing shares because we're getting ownership in real time or sha or if uh you know in the past if we've done a financing or in the future if we do a financing and then we take that money not to put it into promotion to put that money into acquisitions creating generating more revenue streams creating more positive cash flow then that's what matters and then the rest source itself out so i think the real question is or the real answer is when you are issuing shares what is the value the company is getting that is in the best interest of all the shareholders of level jump that and that's the question so you know we're obviously cognizant i'd rather not have you know you know you'd rather have less shareholders outstanding but again if it's if you're issuing shares to get a piece of a pie that's fantastic that benefits the company which benefits the shareholders and that's that makes sense too then we go to the board and we discuss it okay so perfect answer then and so because you're talking about you know the shares um and we are talking about this year so uh if you are checking leverage on healthcare right now you are you have only a 8 million market cap um would you say it's like the fair evaluation regarding all the potential of the first the company and then of the market and i i was thinking i couldn't find any comparables to level jim so could you give us some numbers out of it or uh yeah um well they already comment on specific numbers i mean what i i think our market cap is uh crazy low um you know the idea of us being trading at barely above one times revenue uh when our offer from an operational standpoint is cash flow positive uh you know as we mentioned before you know we have great ar flow uh of cash coming in we provide our services we're generating revenue literally 365 days a year there's no day that we don't generate revenue with our client hospital so before we even get into the acquisitions just looking at the cts operations and where we are um you know i i think that being at only an eight million dollar market cap is is extremely low uh i think right now of course you know the market dictates and certainly i think uh some a lot of the telehealth uh stocks have fallen uh in in the last bunch of months you know as people they've gone into bitcoin or you know whatever the thing of the day is so i would speak to a long-term shareholder and i think if you're a long-term shareholder you want to look at the fundamentals so the fundamentals is we have a company that's uh been around for a long time with a proven model um that we have operations or cash flow positive that management has been around there's no management changes or anything like that we just keep on doing our thing and then you start saying okay but what's the company going to do that's all great mitch but what are we going to do well we've announced all these acquisitions we've announced financing plan for some of it already in place uh we're still able even with where the stock trade is able to do certain share swaps to gain um more uh ownership of of our competitor of shawlins as we've mentioned um so you know when i think when you focus in the current operations and what we're executing right now and showing to everybody if you're a long-term shareholder it's a great time to come into our stock yeah you know and and yeah you always want you know people look uh you know people know in in the general telehealth terms whether it's uh it's a new path utopia doc well uh you know skylight all these stocks that i'm sure a lot of your listeners have have watched over the last 18 months and go like this sometimes they announce acquisitions but they're not profitable acquisitions right or you know and they pay it a lot or what have you and it's kind of like okay where are they going to go when you and you don't want to be buying their stock at as high you want everybody said oh if only i bought it when it was at its low before the pandemic or something like that right so if you believe in what i've said about our core businesses being staple of the importance of healthcare believing in us and our management team and our acquisitions we've announced um there's not much slow for the stock to go down but there's a lot of opportunity for the stock to go up and i think fundamentally speaking everybody has their own system how they might put a value on a company but i think it would be hard for us to say the value is only eight million so i think it makes a great opportunity for you know people to take a look at our stock you know when i'm looking at a company and i'm checking the valuation i was looking at the prices ratio and when i saw how low the ratio was for level but first i couldn't believe it and you i'm talking with other investors and it's the same they are saying they're like level jump is a sleeping giant and the yeah but you know it's like it's you just like talking about the fundamentals uh they're wider valued compared to to the sector and the fact that you your company and the management board decided to acquire to do all these smart acquisitions for sure for a long-term shell holder on the upside is gonna should be huge at least and so if we're talking about long-term um and for the shareholders where would you see the company in in five years for example uh you know our goal is you know first goal is get to 20 million you know this year for 2021 you know we don't have the final numbers but we know they're over six and a half million we'll see where the fourth quarter uh lands us between six and a half and seven million but and with the acquisitions we've announced you know we want to get to 20 million from 20 million it's really to 50 million and from 50 to 100 and you keep going and the thing is is that as we acquire and get bigger and because we're so focused on acquiring companies that are also have cash flow our cash flow positive and have positive ebitda we'll get into a position where as we get bigger we'll be able to fund our further acquisitions ourselves right you know and we already have a relationship with the bank so i think you know when you're looking over the next five years and you say can this be a 125 plus million dollar company we can't i mean we have to execute you know we have to do a lot of a lot of work but i think we've laid the groundwork to get there and that we have a logical proper path uh to get there like it makes sense you can see our acquisitions unfolding you can see how we're going to grow them organically and then find other acquisitions that fit within our mold and all come together um okay so if you're a long-term shareholder this is the company that you you like to jump into like for sure and you're like we talked a lot about the company uh about the the growth the fundamental the future but like just to know like more about you because um you are the ceo since 2010 right yes and so it's been a long time you are into the jump project so what what is the motivation to that is driving you to lead like the whole project my motivation is uh threefold my motivation is to i'm j i've been a business guy i've been in some different industries i i was in in mining for a while i've been around building gold mines uh i've been in the hospitality sector i've been in different industries i've always been an operations guy and tried to have vision so my three targets are to build a company as i mentioned i liked healthcare because of its benefits and what it offers i like the fact that we're helping rural communities uh and our acquisitions are all about rural communities as well so i like that vision but the target is build a successful telehealth company um you know we have time but make sure that we have strong fundamentals that we can get to the targets that we've talked about on a daily basis i love the fact that we employ people and it's dependable income i like the fact that you know when you i kind of value that relationship of when you have people working for you that they can depend on that income you know that they have can put food on their table and that and there's a lot of benefit you know uh aside from growing the company there's a lot of interaction with all your staff and people on a kind of human level each day and i get a lot of benefit out of that and i think that's really important because if you focus on all these things the rest will take care of itself so you know i want to build a company i want to give back by you know as we expand we can hire more people create jobs i think that's good for the economy i think that's a sense a personal kind of uh fulfillment if you will a professional fulfillment that i have and then thirdly i think if we take care of those things the company will be successful not just build a company but build a successful company and if we do that then the stock will be great and everybody will make money so if you're a long-term shareholder like i'm a long-term shareholder then we'll all make money together you know down down the road uh you know and that that that's what we want to do so you know that the stock it may be where it is today but who's to say you know in x amount of time it won't be at a dollar forty or two dollars and eighty cents or you know six dollars so you know let's just keep building it together and then and and hopefully we can return shareholder wealth to everybody all right well perfect thank you for for everything uh you know it was very interesting to to start the new year with level jump because the company has like you know i would say so much potential so it was very interesting uh a lot of person asked me to to do this interview because they wanted to know more to discover more about the company so thank you for your time i really appreciate it and i'm excited to see where the company will be in the future that's great thank you very much mark appreciate the opportunity today to talk to you and your listeners thank you have a great day
2022-01-13 22:59
