How Technology Can Revolutionize the Age-old Sleep Dilemma | SXSW 2024

[Applause] good morning how's everybody doing good oh that's a good thing that's what we're here today talking about um sleeping well I'm really excit excited to be here this morning and over caffeinated because I wanted to compensate the lack of sleep so um to really talk about a topic that is dear to all of us is quality sleep and uh as much as is dear to us is as elusive as funding for a woman Le startup that's how I feel and I'm going to say it um and of course the universe seems to have a sense of humor because we're here talking about sleep and lack of sleep the morning after de saving sign kicks in so we all feeling a little fragile this morning and what I want to discuss with this amazing panel panel is really the role of technology in making us more aware of the importance of good sleep and at the same time why we need to sleep well the impact that not sleeping properly is going to have on us as individual but also as a community and for the organizations that we all happen to uh work for so if we starting with the fact that over over the past couple of years we've had a couple of things one the push after covid of all of us as consumers to really want to uh be more active in the role that we play in our own health and so with that we turn to technology to help us monitor all the different things that we're doing at at the same time we' seen more and more headlines really focusing on sleep and putting sleep almost like a celebrity ingredient of our well-being because the reality is that from a sleep perspective uh it's not just you know we're going to have a good nice leap is really impacting anything from heart disease uh to weight control and weight management uh mental well-being and that has an impact as I said on the people that are around us as well as our productivity at work so today I have the honor to have vis a steam panelist with me so I encourage you to fluff up your imaginary pillows and get comfortable as we are welcoming Dr Han pck from uh Samsung he is this senior vice president and head of digital Health Group at Samsung MX and he really the the brain behind um the uh Health Vision that Samsung has and then I have Vanessa Hill who is something that I'm just amazed by she is an awardwinning science Communicator because we need those we need to understand the impact and importance of Science in a way that we all consumers understand and she's also a sleep scientist and then I have John Lopez who is the CEO of the national sleep foundation so please help me welcome our panelists before we dive in I want to ask you to stay till the end for two reasons one there is a reception with food and drinks so worth it but the second one if you're into gadgets there uh there is the opportunity to see the Galaxy ring that Samsung will be bringing later on in the year so if you're not here for the gadget stay for the food let's start with why and I'm going to start with you H why is sleep important and why are we struggling so much to have quality sleep yeah um I would say I want to separate the why in two different areas one is why uh is sleep becoming more and more important um and I think the growing uh evidence is now linking physiology or changing es that we can now actually measure um to the actual chronic disease whether it's dementia heart disease uh whether it's weight management control We Now understand for example hunger hormones called gerin and lecin uh that actually regulate or give you perception of fullness as an example and we Now understand uh how um poor sleep actually impacts the regulation of those hormones so we now actually understand at a much more granular level and then understanding it's the sleep and its correlation to to disease like dementia so I think that's that the other is that you know I think society's gotten bit busier right and we we just lead very busy lives and I think all of us know that and we're overstimulated by things of from social media to you know uh number of different things and I think uh those things has made uh sleep uh a major issue I'll give you a quick example when I was a intern I was a first year uh I I just graduated from medical school and I was an intern and I remember the attending on a Sunday morning comes in very fresh got great sleep uh we were post call so we had no sleep uh or very little sleep and he started quizzing us about this patient that we were about to go see and of course of course my colleague was the first one up that and got the question wrong and so then the question that the attending asked us was how much sleep did you get and and I think we mumbled something like two hours or something and goes well that's two hours more than you needed I think it tells you kind of where we were right and we' come a long way but I think we still have a Badge of Courage right because I think we tend to say you know uh we we power through it we we you know I think there's a mindset that we need to still overcome so um I think we still have some work to do I I totally agree Vanessa what what is your thinking when it comes to why matters yeah I think in research we separate all of these different factors that affect us and why we're not getting the sleep that we need and there are lifestyle factors things that are more within our control so perhaps we're having too much caffeine or alcohol and that's having a negative impact on our sleep there's also the social media or screen time as H mentioned and a lack of physical activity that affects some people as well and then there's other things that are harder for us to control so there's travel I think we're probably all experiencing some travel related sleep deprivation at the moment uh and work and work stress and what we find is that actually sleep uh for Sleep Stress and Anxiety can have such a big impact and we are leading busier lives and with that comes work stress and family stress uh I'm sure we have all experien this I experience this a lot how Stress and Anxiety can show up in our sleep is we can have trouble falling asleep and wake up more frequently during the night and there are some solutions I know we're talking about tech today uh personally I like to do meditations and breathing exercises anything we can do to try to get our stress Under Wraps which are in the Samsung Health app as well so there are things that we can try to do to manage these different things and improve our sleep but from a sleep Foundation perspective I mean the the you know the organization itself I think that what Han was saying about there's still a stigma of on one end feeling guilty if you have eight hours sleep right and the other side almost that badge of honor of oh I only slept two hours look at me I can stay function yeah I I think we're seeing a change I think we're seeing a change um where people are starting to tune in more to the importance of as sleep not just for the uh you know physiologic reasons and the connection to other health conditions but it really does impact uh the way we see ourselves the way we interact with other people on the day-to-day and you know there if you look back a few years we can look at some kind directional Trends where people were starting to key in more about the importance of their sleep there was maybe an inflection point around 10 years ago where you could actually see that people were searching more about sleep than they were for other medical conditions so they're starting people the public are starting to tune in but it's really fundamental to how we feel about ourselves how we interact with other people uh day-to-day behaviors and and there's a safety component to it as well so when we talk about sleep Health there's also a sleep health and safety component to it that's some responsibility that we have to each other beond absolutely and this is the point that I wanted to kind of move on to which is it's not just about us I mean I know that from a family perspective my family feels the pain when I don't sleep enough so but there is also you know at work to your point earlier so how should we think about that in terms of the how sleep Matters from a societal perspective versus individual I mean you mentioned safety which is a great not not that's a whole another hour conversation on sleep health and safety um but it it does start with with ourselves um you know when we are our best slept self we have a certain glow we know how we look and how we feel in the morning everyone can relate to a good night's sleep or a poor night's sleep and that carries on to the people around us uh it carries into the workplace there's been a concept of presenteeism uh performance in the workplace place and you know we have responsibility uh to our colleagues there our families um it it is uh pervasive uh the effects of uh good or or bad sleep on our lives I know that um recently I read I think it was about $400 billion is the estimated cost uh from poor sleep and then per for the employer I think it's about $2,000 or so um per employee per year that that's a significant amount of economic impact so it's not just about but I think I want to get back to what John said which is you know I think we are as human beings um relational in nature we are here to receive care and and give care back I think that's so core regardless of where you are where you live and I want to tell you a story about three weeks ago uh or three four weeks ago I had a lot of work stress to be honest and so it was about a specific project and I couldn't sleep for a couple nights of that week we and then uh I started realizing that my judgment and the way I think about things had changed I was reacting not responding to people and then thank goodness uh it was uh luner new year so I had a three-day or three day weekend or four day weekend and I got some sleep and I can tell you it was a night and day myself knowing as a physician knowing what was going on still not being able to overcome and that I needed that rest and so I think that's just you know speaks to what John said this this is about societ we we can talk about societal impact in ter of dollars and all that but really at the end of the day we're human beings helping each other and and as Leaders we particularly what we do and what we say matter a lot and I think from what hon said as well something that might be comforting to everyone here who's struggling with their sleep or feels like they're not getting a good sleep is that we struggle with it as well people who work in the industry who know all of this stuff so it is such a common problem um I just want to kind of go back to the economic impact that you mentioned so my research looks at new graduates and we kind of identified this as a population who could change perhaps so college students are well established as a very sleep deprived population and for all of us who have been through that time in our lives we can you know imagine those all nighters we were pulling social lives studying there's just a lot going on so we kind of thought well if we want to address that $400 billion impact is the start of your career or the beginning of the workforce a good time to do that it's a fresh start it's a a moment where people are transitioning so we're trying to put some Behavior change programs in that point for our Future Leaders so they can show up to work feel great be productive develop those skills that they need I I love that because we are changing so much with the the new generation coming into the workplace as far as what drives them and the fact that you know they're very different from my generation for instance and so the purpose and everything else and so starting with the right Behavior where again you don't have to work you know and having that balance is more important I I love that yeah I was just going to add it's it's absolutely a call to action I mean it's a call to action for a cultural change and we're kicking off sleep Awareness Week today so we're going to ask everybody who's in the audience to actually take this with them for the week and Beyond the week uh but it's it's a cultural change and it is a time to set up good and consistent habits that you can take with you uh others can take with them for the rest of their lives we're doing a lot of work with uh teens right now we'll be releasing some data on sleep health and teens and their mental health uh this week but again there are groups of people people and in population we can start to establish good habits that travel with you but that's different that is different that's difficult right and and actually I'm going to encourage you all to if you're not so in touch with your sleeping patterns there's going to be a cute way to understand how you sleep and your relationship with sleep at the reception Samsung has done something very um Smart in trying to almost gamify the experience so that you can associate yourself and your sleeping pattern with an animal so you know what animal you are and then changing your habits but you know changing those habits is is hard and I think technology over the past few years has really helped us um track our sleep right and and and help us figure out a little bit uh our patterns but there's your sleep and then there's are external factors and I think that's where technology is going as well what are some of the external factors that can play into you mentioned things like you know caffeine and alcohol but there's more around that as well right the environment you're in and so forth yeah I think that one thing that Tech can do in terms of helping us change our behavior is really be there for those cues like a lot of us procrastinate our bedtime and have trouble getting to bed on time we just get caught up with TV with work whatever it may be so having a what or a phone where you can have a bedtime alarm you can get to bed on time uh sleep consistency is one of the most important factors of our sleep and something that can really help us have consistent good energy levels every day and my watch is always queuing me to go to bed at a certain time so I can maintain that sleep consistency so I think having some of these Tech cues around our house can really help just with our home environment and with us improving our sleep that way I I would add that um it's a terrific tool the the variety of tools that technology affords us as consumers um is it's broad um there are many many applications for Sleep they're terrific triggers uh to remind us of things to do and there's um there's an expansion into you know how technology can uh be employed across the whole home so we're talking about wearable devices and we're talking about out bedside devices and airable devices but the way things are going in sleep uh is is there there are new doors that are being open within the home in technology I would just add that you know at the end of the day I think many of us know what to do whether we choose to do it or not or able to do it uh is another conversation but you know Vanessa being a scientist I think I'm going to speak and then have her correct me here but you know I love the the comb uh behavioral change model and that's uh I think it's capacity or capability opportunity motivation that leads to behavior change and so as you break down those individual uh components you realize that sometimes we just don't have the capacity we're just sick uh we have you know stressful lives at work and family uh we don't always get the opportunity to do those nudges and and changes and sometimes we just don't have the knowledge of understanding if people understood that sleep actually clears your toxins from your brain and then understands that there's a correlation between deep and REM sleep to Dementia in a very significant way would that change Behavior well one would hope so but I think we still have some work to do the motivation is what a lot of people struggle with and I think a lot of us are here we you know know that sleep is good for us we can set aside the time and we kind of have that opportunity but we just struggle with actually doing the thing with getting off the couch getting to bed at the right time with uh having a schedule that allows us to sleep with that kind of thing so I think the motivation is one that people really struggle with yeah I I would Echo that with motivation what we see when we talk uh to to the public um we talk about the practice of healthy sleep behaviors um you know as a population we're grading out at like a d or an f um and they simple uh they're basic healthy sleep behaviors that you know uh we all talk about during the day during the night but the motivation so people will know and we can we can help people understand um Behavior change is doable it's hard sometimes but it's doable a hopeful message is actually we only need motivation for a small period of time and then if we actually build the habit and the Habit sticks you can forget about the motivation it just becomes part of your automatic Behavior I I love that and I think what what I've come to realize is that we have uh windows in which we have the both the capacity and the timing to change and so we need these nudges at the right moment and that's where technology comes in absolutely and so we can now measure capacity to some degree for example our Vitality score we have the ability to use technology to nudge at the right moments in ways that we have not been able to do so we don't want to sound like we're kind of you know uh sad for the state we're in in terms of sleep because the sleep pattern is getting worse um it's also that we have an aging population and so how much of is that versus um whether the problem is getting worse to be determined B reminds me of something that you told me the first time that we chatted around uh sleep which uh you were saying how from a sleep perspective versus say nutrition and and weight loss you can actually immediately feel the effect the positive effect of a good night's sleep right it's just keeping that high that we get for a long enough time to make it a habit and then I wanted to add to what John was saying earlier about Smart Homes and how you know when you're talking about environment as an example the ability now for technology to sense the room you're in and see it's not just about caffeine or alcohol but it's also was your room too hot you know do you can you sleep better if is a cooler environment and all of that now can be facilitated by technology without us having to work hard to make it all happen but what I find interesting is when I talk to regular consumers about sleep and and sleep tracking the question that they all go back to is like well how do you know I'm asleep you know if I'm wearing a a watch or a ring that is tracking how do you know how do you know I'm asleep so uh the the gold reference is what they call PSG po polysomnogram uh you go to a a lab and they put eegs on and using the EG we can see the brain waves and when you fell asleep we use that um as a reference by which we developed an algorithm using uh signals um uh from the circular system and we can actually get to about 80% plus or minus uh to actually know when you fell asleep and so our wearables and others um are able to estimate when you fell asleep we're about 15 20 minutes probably plus or minus as to when uh but uh yeah it's um it's amazing what we can do and then we can then use machine learning and AI to then look at stages of sleep so because what's important is you know Direct ation is the perception but what we realize is that the REM and the Deep which is the most important for brain health specifically um that does not correlate with how well you feel in the morning which is kind of scary because what that means is there's a problem of delayed gratification because the implication of poor sleeve is far more consequential than a mere next day do you feel better or not that's the issue to me we don't understand the cost of the sacrifice we're making had do we if we could measure that right so for example the epigenome now is able to see the changes in the histones which sit on top of the DNA expression and in doing so we see physiologic we can actually begin to measure what happens when your behavior changes so I think the days are coming now that we can begin to measure the implication of Lifestyle so that we at least have the better opportunity but again it comes down to will you do the right than that's right that's right well I know I feel validated sometime when I look at my data and I feel the way I feel because sometime I don't I don't know maybe is a is a fortune thing that I don't look as bad as I feel so but there is a little bit of that right that the data really brings to life more really the the not the feeling but but the impact that that Ben ni leap has had on you yeah there's what you know um and sometimes these data are the scores that they can serve as a p on the back give you some directional you know some reinforcement there's what you know and then to H's Point there's what you don't know and we for a long time have been because of the evidence that's growing in the scientific Community been trying to communicate we've been communicating to the public about the importance of sleep for these for your health and health conditions the evidence is there it's getting stronger um but we don't necessarily understand that but we understand is how we feel and so I think what technology can do is it can reinforce both so talking about technology maybe I'm getting OV excited but obviously um you know part of a discussion today is AI and AI is everywhere and the conversation around what AI can do I was mentioning earlier that um you know from a consumer perspective if it's something that I learned over research you know for many years is that we kind of lazy like you know we having to work for technology usually doesn't work so if I have to enter data that says oh I had a coffee at 2 o' or data that says oh my room was set at 75 last night I might do it for a week or so but then I'm going to stop and the promise of AI is two things one that is going to make it much more personal right so is going to be I have different patterns in my sleep and my my habits are different than all of you so having the ability to be more personal to me is one and the second one is that those dotted lines are going to be connected automatically by AI versus me doing it am I getting over excited or is there something there obviously I wouldn't be here if I were not excited very excited so uh you know we have things like smart things right now that can control your environment so assisting Us in the developing the regular hygiene sleep hygiene that's necessary but AI is changing the game uh in a very significant way so we've used AI to date uh to create more accurate algorithms uh to predict different stages of sleep uh to get V2 Max and other so we're already we have been using uh Ai and we'll continue to use AI in terms of development and enhancement of uh algorithms where we're now moving to with uh large language models is to look at the benefits of the New Gen AI which is uh being able to take massive amounts of data and summarizing it in a way that's understandable uh two being a navigator because the complexity of Health Care is just it's just hard um and so it's able to um to Carolina's point that it can personalize it for you because all of us I think we know sleep hygiene you're supposed to do ABCD but if you sense something about me and it says it knows me we respond differently and so I think that's one of the key areas and then it nudges me in the tone that I would uh uh respond to and so it's those things that I find really exciting because I think in ways that the human computer interface has fundamentally changed and it's going to get better and better and the amount of complexity of the healthcare data that's going to be collected now you know we have a vision for connected home where we're going to bring not only the data from our devices but in the broader sense in the home and being able to bring that and share that data with the ecosystem of Partners so you can imagine the magnitude of the data that we're dealing with bringing clinical data on top of that with that we're really excited about what that's going to reveal and I think the promise of generative AI is is the Habit changeing part the fact that right now I might have some coaching but it's very basic you know normally I get like Caroline I shouldn't had a cup of coffee four and I was like well I know that but I still needed it right but there's more now that we can do as we look at gener AI are you excited about I am excited about about it because for me one of the challenges from a communication and education standpoint around sleep is that everyone's sleep is so different it's so individual uh our sleep patterns are different our lifestyles are different and when we think about Behavior change we're all at a different place with that as well some of us may have the opportunity some of us may have the motivation but we may not have all three so it can be really difficult when we're recommending things for people to do and we have this laundry list of sleep hygiene tips and some of this some of them apply to us and some of them may not like for me for example I cannot have a 4:00 coffee that is just a nogo for me because I would not be able to fall asleep at night but then you have people who can have an espresso after dinner and they're perfectly fine they can just fall right asleep so there are these subtle differences in our behaviors and how we respond to things that can affect our sleep as well so I think the promise of AI is that it can deliver that personalization to our own sleep patterns to our behaviors and as H said it can customize those messages to us in ways that we will respond to them and I think we're at a point where the results of these applications of AI are going to you know be get positive more more positive experiences with the users and the importance of having these positive experiences you know the proofs in the pudding um but those positive experiences are also going to generate more confidence and Trust in the platform and that's an opportunity in in the tech space we think and and in the Sleep Tech space um is to continue to um deliver confidence as people will develop trust in the platforms so you stole my question because I wanted to get to t- word of trust because I I do think it's very important both you know from a privacy perspective you know if we want to share more and there's opportunity now to even share data that than our you know Physicians are have access to I need to trust the brand that is delivering the technology but then there's also a consistency of the the kind of data that I'm getting and the quality of the data that I'm getting right um and I I think you did some studying around well there there a couple things first I think that industry is very sophisticated and their continuous Improvement and their focus on the performance of of of their products and services when we did research with the public around sleep Tech uh one of the opportunities that we saw was uh to increase trust in in Tech and I think it's consistent with what we've seen in the application of tech to other areas of healthcare or the Gathering of healthcare data so I don't think it's inconsistent with that but specific to sleep that's an opportunity for us I'm curious if there's a difference as far as you know you mentioned uh younger generation and whether you see a difference in your research between you know younger generation and older generation not just about the relationship with sleep but also the relationship obviously with technology and leaning onto uh into technology to help with their Fitness and well-being yeah I think what you would find uh particularly with the Sleep health study that Samsung did last year is that it was I think their 30s people in their 30s were the biggest users of the health app and the watch for that study so there's definitely more adoption in younger generations and one would hope that with further personalization and AI coming into these Behavior change technologies that that could lead to healthier habits down the track for those younger Generations as well I cannot just not ask you about the ring so I'm going to ask you about the ring um obviously Samsung is betting on diversifying your portfolio and personally I think that to the point that we all different having opportunity to you know wear a watch if I want to some people don't want to wear watch when they sleep having the ring as a is that why are you diversifying or is there something from a ring perspective as a form factor that gives you different better than a watch form factor so I think uh our introduction of this new form factor or ring saring one by the way um um is uh really from uh listening to our customers our customers told us meet me where I am and for some of them less is more they don't want to screen on their wrist when they go to sleep sometimes some are fine some are not um so I think what we've learned over and over again is that more technology necessarily is not better and so I think this for us we're not trying to be a ring company right or a smart ring company what we're trying to be is a company that uh helps care for the health of billions of people with our connected devices and Beyond we think that the only way we're going to really disrupt Healthcare in the way we know it today is only going to happen with the ecosystem of people that are innovating and the data we don't see it as our data it's on behalf of the patients the consumers they own the data we have the honor uh with their permission to use it in a meaningful way for both personalization but also to have insights in ways that we've never understood to be honest we're measuring things during sleep that really is predictive of what your health is overall this is why Samsung is really focused on sleep for the last couple years and then the sleep apnea uh uh uh screening that was approved approved by FDA are further evidence of our commitment and investment uh in in this regard can I just add something to that um when industry makes this kind of investment we're talking about Samsung today when industry makes this kind of investment in the field like sleep like sleep Health it really buoys the significance the significance and the importance of of of the field um it's doing good good things for the field of sleep health and I think for me I study screen time and there's always this kind of delicate balance or dilemma if you like between good screens and bad screens like using technology to track and improve our Behavior but then having screens there and using them to procrastinate our bedtime and have the blue light suppress our melatonin and all the rest of it and I really love the ring personally as a form factor because you have that capability there except you don't have a screen that's right and and options if I could put that out too so uh more Tech is not necessarily better options in Tech is great for consumers and you know one of our goals at National seep Foundation is that sleep science is rapidly incorporated into Technologies and this is consistent with our goals and and the ring just to mention we'll have um natural cycle our strategic Partners ability to measure menstrual cycle look at fertility Windows excuse me and uh the reason I mentioned that is not only that that's a feature that's going to come with the ring um along with what we call the Vitality score which is really the first way in which we're able to measure capacity remember the comb model we're beginning to look at and and and decompose how to motivate and get someone to be able to change with AI enhancing that and so we're looking at it systematically and you know last week was International women's day I think most of you may know uh sleep affects uh women on average about 10% 10 15% of the population in general but once you get to about 40 50 during perimental PSAL Windows it goes to about almost 45 50% impact of sleep that's what it is it has huge boom so I think this has huge huge implications to society uh there are companies that are trying to uh develop medications um and I think these wearables now gives us the tools by which to actually quantify and measure whether our interventions are working or not uh we're having conversations with um uh who's the big um metch company ResMed uh that developed CPAP machines for those that have sleep apnea um because what they want is even though they have a medical device you would think that they would be able to monitor how well the compliances and whether the cpaps is working or not they they need a wearable in conjunction to help them with that so I think it's really an exciting time for us in that regard just to piggyback off that one of the features I love most about wearing my watch while I sleep is it measures my core body temperature and that does change over the course of your menstrual cycle and you can have more trouble sleep at different points in your cycle as well so one of my dreams for AI is that I can have a connection to my thermostat or perhaps this is already possible with smart things maybe my dreams have already been realized just just to just to clarify so we measure a skin temperature but we measure the trend of skin temperature that correlates with core temperature changes we're not measuring core temperature but the skin temperature Delta is the same fluctuations and using that were pretty predictable in terms of when the fertility window happen so uh this this will be out with the ring right what one of my dreams is that that can connect to my thermostat and the temperature in my bedroom can change depending on the changes in my yeah so personally I think this is probably TMI but um I wake up part of the reason I wake up in the middle of the night is um um because I get hot uh there's a popular population that overheats for some reason there's a certain temperature variation during different stages and to your point for me uh we're looking at companies specifically that can help you Thermo regulate in the bed in the smart mattress because it can measure the temperature on the surface of the bed with different sensors in addition to wearables and begin to not only say this is your profile these are this is what's happening but then the actual connection is you can now therm regulate to the temperature so that you can get restful sleep so it's no longer about what is your quality of sleep it's about getting you to the solution could I just take a quick step back just so make sure we don't miss this um to the point you made about obstructive sleep apneia so National sleep Foundation we our starting point is General sleep health and and wellness in the population and there are going to be times when people are you know following our guidance or looking at some of our recommendations and they're still not getting enough of the quality sleep they need they need to see a clinician when we start focusing on Sleep Disorders um obstructive sleep apnea is a very very significant consequence to population health so any collaboration it's you independent you know uh nonprofits like us and the consortiums that we're part of or industry uh that's something to keep an eye on is is how we can help improve um diagnosis rates in treatment and obstructive sleep Happ yeah I don't know if people know about 40% uh of people who have sleep apnea obstructive sleep apnea don't know that they have it it's wildly underdiagnosed yeah yeah unless you sleep with somebody who does have it and then you know right that's why like yes I I don't sleep cuz my husband snores and when he doesn't snore I wake up because I think he's dead so like there's just no win-win there so but think IIT I'm sorry just the caveat I think people think about loud snoring and so forth and then I get complaints from my wife as well but the bigger issue is that people with o obstructive sleep apne or Osa uh have much higher morbidity mortality around cardiovascular particularly stroke this is not a small issue yeah and so I think that being able to uncover 40% and let them get them to the doctor when needed I think it's a huge step for us for sure I I was just going to say that's another hour talk yeah um but it's it's something that collectively I think we're all we're all very concerned about and focused on trying to improve and I'm not going to ask you about what you think about daylight saving time because I think that's another hour and a very strong debate here's the guy on the end who wants to steal all your time for the day but it's uh I'll try to keep it clock Change is bad permanent Standard time is actually the better fit for our our body clocks uh you know we're we're humans we're mammals we're in trained to the Sun on um and when we uh when we apply a Daylight Saving Time scheme it's it's kind of a hack you know we're we're prioritizing the social clock rather than the sun clock and our body clock so National sleep Foundation very early on said that we're in favor of permanent Standard Time to stop the clock change and stick with the permanent Standard Time scheme Vanessa as a scientist where did you see on this one as a scientist the permanent Standard Time as John said is the best for for our body clock uh there's a lot of countries around the world who have already adopted a permanent Standard Time uh and Arizona and Hawaii maybe and I think Hawaii Hai yeah yeah so I think they're on the right track and it would be good to stop the changes because what what does happen particularly at this time where we're more likely to lose an hour of sleep is that in the next week or two you see population level statistics where people are more likely have traffic accidents heart attacks these types of medical events that we believe come from this change a triggered by this change yeah yeah so I have one last question for you all while you get your questions ready and I'm going to open up for a question in a second but I said at the beginning we all a little fragile and and uh after the The Hour That is been stolen from us so if you want the audience to walk away with one key take away from this panel and in general the importance of sleep what would that be it's really hard to prioritize your sleep but it's so important think about that sleep consistency try to make time for sleep in your schedule it may involve cutting some other activities that you enjoy but I would just encourage everyone to do that um being sleep awareness week I'd like to encourage people to do a sleep health check up think about how you have been sleeping and some ways that that you can improve that I would say that please consider that sleep health is the thread that connects runs through our most significant Health priorities and similar to that technolog is a thread that really can run through all of the different interventions that we would seek to make to improve our sleep Health at Samsung we we have a vision to improve the health of billions of people uh if you look at sleep we don't see sleep as a thing you need to rest or uh simply what are the stages and and so forth but it is the window for our health and when we more and more look into the data we're Amazed by what we don't know we're amazed at the opportunity in front of us and the technology that can help us get there awesome and we have a plenty of question my uh takeaway for you is that if you don't want to sleep for you do it for for those around you cuz they'll appreciate it and we're going to open up with questions hi um my name is Flav olera I'm a neuroscientist physician surgeon who treats patients with sleep issues and I split part of my time clinically and part of my time and Innovation um I like to think of things sort of in a different lens a little bit and so I'm gonna kind of propose a question to the panel on something that I think we didn't touch on so most of the current approach is to try to measure or improve Sleep Quality architecture Etc but we spend a third of Our Lives sleeping and so I'm curious about your thoughts on interventions during sleep that can affect things like learning memory emotion regulation uh you know hormone release and things like that yeah great great question and uh thank you for what you do and um this is why we think that digital health is so EX exciting is because I think some of the what we used to do medications to for specific interventions are now turning digital so I think some of you know about digital Therapeutics for insomnia uh and then we have slow wave entrainment that beginning to show some evidence that it might actually lengthen REM sleep uh but we're also learning uh I had a conversation with Nestle who had done some studies that showed that um nutrition so car load if you you eat a high carb load it actually decreases your deep sleep and so we're now looking at smart nutrition and saying can nutrition done in a personalized way actually help with your sleep architecture or the how fast you fall asleep as an example and there's some evidence that it's beginning to do that so I think these Technologies when personalized are beginning to show the impact of the of the of the Sleep Quality uh so I absolutely agree with you yeah I I would just add that there they're probably behavioral things that we can be doing during the day that manifest or benefit us at night and to the examples that that Han gave that anything that we're doing during the day that's going to perhaps enable us to spend the right amount of time in certain stages I'm curious about during the night though because it's an eight hour period where you may be stimulated either by temperature changes touch uh sound ofaction hairless C that comes and wakes me up yeah got it how that will affect what happen so we're thinking about what we do during the day that affects sleep but what about what we do during sleep that affects what we do during the quality yeah so the slow waving trainman as an example is at night time during sleep and extending it and there will be others that will come along that will help help with that yeah I think it's a pretty novel area of research and there are some really interesting findings like on the slow wave entrainment as well what I would like to see is more research on some of these areas so they can go to market so people can actually have some really good research backed ways that they can use that time um but I think I mean you you have a lot of time during the day and a lot of things that you can do during the day to improve your sleep as well so I think that ultimately it's probably using that time that you are awake and perhaps for some people who have certain conditions where maybe they do need to improve their sleep or they're not spend spending an adequate amount of time in different sleep stages some of these other interventions overnight could help thank you thank you thank you hi I appreciate a lot of the points you've made and um particularly about the ring I mean I've worn a smart ring for four years now I've been on a sleep Journey it's really helped me a lot and um but you talk about using it to measure the effects of various interventions and that gets into as you were talking about Ai and data and how does this happen is this something that Samsung can do is it something that the national sleep Federation can do how do we get there because you know technology measuring interventions probably most of the people in this room are experimenting in different ways oh melatonin oh magnesium oh CBD lots of these experiments how does that data get Consolidated in a way that it becomes real science and a future standard of care yeah I'll just speak from a Samsung perspective and then John can give you the right answer but you know again Samsung doesn't think it's our data right uh we fundamentally believe and we are collaborating right now with organizations to make this data available we have it turns out we have one of the largest natural observational data collection of sleep because the problem we have with uh ref gold reference data is that it's PSG level data uh it is more accurate but it's in lab in an artificial setting where we're getting four plus or minus hours to to measure and get diag diagnosed and so our our vision is this that we would continue to collect that data with permission from the users and I make that available for life science and other companies not to sell the data but learn from that data particularly with the national SLE foundation and other organizations that can bring credibility and that kind of independent uh thinking so that we can begin to understand the interventions and the implications of these interventions and whether they work or not right and from the national sleep Foundation interest we would want to see more companies you know like Samsung like what Han is explaining sharing data that they collect and if it can go into a repository whether that's something at National seep Foundation someone manages but but culturally that we get to a point where we're actually sharing these data we're bringing them together from different sources and a organization like ours we can also get in and look at these results of objective data let's say compare them to what we're seeing at the population level when we're talking to the public we can start to the the the the beauty and data is when you start to see things that are aligning great what go ahead I was just going to say to your point I think it's really difficult if people are making choices to have melatonin or magnesium or whatever it may be it is really hard to infer that that is then good for your sleep based on someone's personal experience and I think it's really tough with even wearables to say that this is good for you or good for people in general because all of the conditions are so different people are taking different doses people are doing different things all during the day so I think for a lot of people I mean people come up and say to me all the time oh I do X and it improves my sleep and I mean that's great if you figure that out for you but from a scientific perspective it's really difficult to actually say that more as a general thing we'll ultimately use prospective data to do randomized clinical trials to make these decisions at some point but I think there's still something to be learned in a large study to say what are the signals that are there or not and then from there I think like uh Vanessa said I think you do have to do some more rigorous clinical trials yeah just one last thing and then I'll I'll go is just the organizations that are working on brain health you you talked about how critical sleep is for dementia Parkinson's Alzheimer's other things those would be great organizations to partner with going absolutely and we have an open innovation ation model where we actually partner with MIT bringing women's specifically for this reason we don't we're not a brain science company right that that's not who we are and so we have to partner we think it has to come together in a way that's uh that brings the best of the different Specialties including patient advocacy groups for us to do the right set of things I wish I had a perlan la right now I'm so happy I have never been Made of Honor um so I'm Jen I'm a register nurse and I'm lucky enough to have idiopathic hypersomnia so I was wondering if you guys could assuming that a lot of the people in this room maybe don't know what idiopathic hypersomnia is if you could just talk about the excessive sleepiness disorders and how they suck um I can't take zy REM because I'm already depressed and I live alone so um and I'm fighting with very feisty add patients to get my medications filled so yeah I was just wondering if you could use this area to kind of touch on that then my peeps and narcolepsy sounds so much like cooler so annoying and IH doesn't get as much funding it's so sad but yeah well it's it's a first of all um we hear you and there are others who are living with IH um and it is different from narcolepsy um it is a rare sleep disorder um and I think there's really only one medication that's right at this point that's approved treatment and I think you just shared that you're you're not able because I live alone so it's for lack of a better term it's ruies um it is basically um and because I live alone if I was to take it and like there was a fire or something right my I don't know if my cat Stephen would wake me up I would hope it's a cat so no is the answer yeah yeah yeah so like that's that's the reason I can't take it sure I I would just quickly ask and I don't want to dominate the the conversation are you in touch with you know there's a hypersomnia foundation they provide a lot of support and a lot of insight yeah um it's just there's I just find that so many of the studies are focused on narcolepsy so yeah well well I would be happy to spend time if you want to after the session and and yeah do them a reception and sure and we can talk about it and I can point in the right direction yeah there are a number of advoc advocacy groups um so yeah we'd be happy to share those as well if you want to be connected but I just want to add thank you for being vulnerable thank you for sharing I think this is how we uh increase awareness and how and and for me I think your message uh makes me uh more passionate about the work that I do so thank you my mother was like she I was raised by a theater mom so I'm very dramatic but it is a very like invisible um disability yeah and I have to describe like I have to tell my manager so many times she gets so mad at me when I am not doing enough and it's like Katherine you do you want my brain you know so well let's let's please let's connect yes beautiful thank you for the work that thank you thank you you hi hello my name is Wesley uh I had a question for John uh actually two questions um you know how important sleep is apparently right uh some employers do not so from all your conversations with different groups different companies what is the thing that kind of wins them over the most is the first question employers employers the second is as the head of a company that really does understand or Foundation that does understand the quality of sleep what are the things that you do to ensure that your employees get enough sleep what are the I love this question great question John's on the spot on the spot putting the boss on the spot but um Let me please answer your first question some of the themes to emphasize with employers around sleep Health are around General Health performance safety cost savings yep if you if you can articulate those and you know we can help provide some resources around that but and I'm not sure uh if you're thinking about a particular industry no no that that those that the top four works but I think that that's what you those are the messages that you really want to pay off uh with employers and I think if you start showing the dollars usually that's where all of those translate into dollars and the second question second question is we have a culture around sleep health I when when we are in launch mode sometimes it requires more than a you know eight hour a day but uh because we're in the Sleep space we give our employees a lot of time that they need if they need to make up for hours um you we give people time off when they're putting in long days um we're we're neck deep in the promises of sleep health so our staff know the benefits of sleep um I don't know if you're thinking about a particular intervention I don't know if like uh it sounds like you you culturally you you hand the the Reigns for them for them to make that their own choices but I don't know if there's any nudging enforcement like I like we have a deadline so the next week everyone has a week off or um you hand out uh Samsung Galaxy rings to everyone and saying like share share your sleep timing and or whatever and you give a prize it's not quite available yet so that has I'm just like what are the mean mechanisms that you I understand you have a culture but what is enforcement or reinforcement mechanisms that you you I think we I'll be the first one if I'm seeing a late night email or text yes to try to put the breakes on that if it's something that can wait till the next day there are times when we have to respond at different times but culturally gotta um and it's tough when you we're doing Communications as well it's but we don't need to be burning the midnight oil uh for work so that's something that we've kind of instituted culturally uh in terms of providing our own employees with uh technology maybe that's something we should think about so actually we at Samsung uh we have our internal nox messenger that allows us to securely communicate and when it's nighttime at the other end because we're a global company it tells you do you really want to send this message now or it'll say it's after hours do you really want to send send this and so I think we can work technology in such a way that does you know enforce because you do need some reinforcement yeah two two other things I'll add a lot of companies do have Wellness programs which in turn can help you sleep if they have things in the workplace like yoga meditation things like that but if there are any managers here listening right now one thing that I would encourage you to adopt is a flexible start time because socially we are living in an early birds world but a lot of us here are not night owls and it's really really tough to start work at 8:00 or 9:00 a.m. in the morning so a flexible start time can really do wonders for some people in your team thank you very much yeah thank you good questions maybe one one last question uh really appreciate a lot of the reflections on the the potential for technology and AI uh and especially with wearables to impact sleep I think for my experience and a lot of experience of of my network there's been challenges in the practicality I guess in the immediate term uh a couple of the challenges that I've seen are won the accuracy uh so at one point I think I was wearing an aura ring an Apple Watch and had an eight sleep mattress and they were all showing different sets of sleep data and so it's this question of H how accurate is any one data set and then I think the second challenge that I've heard a lot is that sometimes looking at the data more and being more conscious of sleep can actually make you overthink it more yeah and actually see sleep suffering as you're tracking it more and so uh would love to just hear Reflections on kind of that translating to practicality gap of of where we are and and kind of how you see that being overcome one thing we were all talking about before we walked in is orthosomnia which is this obsession with data and looking at your sleep data and just trying to optimize it and there are some characteristics traits that people have people who are more anxious or more neurotic don't necessarily gel well with wearables uh because they will be doing that but one thing that I would emphasize for people who may be like that and for everyone in general is to look at the trends because even if those night toight measurements are slightly different from Brand to Brand the trends will probably be the same over time and that's where you can see what your sleep has been like uh Behavior change techniques that you're using working and just really getting a good idea of where you're at by looking at the trends yeah in terms of the data accuracy I can share with you that you know I think every company including Samsung has to be accountable for how the algorithms get developed what the evidence is and so uh we'll publish those but for the for uh for the consumer uh you're at a unfortunately different uh algorithms are developed in different ways so you're going to get some differences and everything should be based on the reference which is a PSG uh you know which is EEG based and so you know I don't know how to solve that problem to be honest um but I think that it's based on how close is it to a reference gold stand right so I mean really quickly from the NSF standpoint you know we work with the consumer technology Association to set standards for devices um but I think the other question is well so what is someone looking for in that feedback um I'll think about m

2024-04-09 06:51

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