Foresight Live: Convergence of Critical Technologies in Quantum

um welcome everyone to this foresight live um event tonight on um convergence of quantum technologies Um very glad that you came um this late on a Thursday evening Um I really hope that you will enjoy this event We're going to start with some quick introductions There will be a Q&A um session at the end So if you have any questions you will have time to ask them Um and obviously there will be networking afterwards as well Um my name is Ti Helis I work with Bristol Innovations I've been covering tech transfer spinouts this kind of university venturing sector for the last 10 plus years Uh so I'm not an expert on quantum computing but that's why these lovely people are here Um I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves Starting with Zoe to my left Hi I'm Zoe Davidson I'm a research specialist at BT and I work in the optical networks and quantum center of excellence Uh so I I am also not an expert in quantum computing I'm barely an expert in quantum I understand semiconductors and because I understand semiconductors my boss decided that that meant I could research quantum Um I'm not entirely sure if that was an accurate decision but I've become uh I have taught myself along the way So yes very happy to be here So I'm um Professor Ruth Alton I'm a professor of quantum batonics at the University of Bristol So my research is actually on semiconductor light emitters for things that produce single photons that will be used in things like quantum communication networks Um I'm also the academic lead of the quantum technology innovation center here at the University of Bristol Um I also have a two-day week role with the um FCDO the foreign office So I advise them on quantum technologies um and their role in geopolitics But I can't really ask answer too many questions about political things at the moment otherwise I will get into trouble So yeah that's that's the various things I'm doing Hi I'm Francesca I'm a head of technology cats quantum security Katz is a a startup uh here in Bristol that develop quantum quantum crytography systems and u yeah that's it We've been around for seven eight years now and uh we're getting to a good point where we starting commercializing our systems and uh yeah and that's it really and thank you very much for the invite Well I think it was Alex that put the panel together but forward the thanks Um I'm going to ask for a quick show of hands because I want to understand who is in the audience tonight as well Um so if you're with industry can you just raise your hand okay that's quite a few Um government or public sector no one Okay Um Ruth you're safe Um funer of any kind public private no Um specifically the startup world Couple of people Cool So I think we're sitting mostly in front of industry people Um which is good Hopefully they will know enough about quantum for us to not dumb things down Um dumb them down a little bit for me please Um but I'm going to start with um quite a broad question which is kind of trying to understand where the quantum sector is at today Um maybe going to start with you again Zoe to my left for the industry perspective Where does quantum fit into BT strategy today where is it um so I think that kind of depends on which element of quantum you're looking at So we break down quantum into a few different sort of technology overheads So we look at uh quantum communications so quantum networking uh we look at um quantum sensing uh quantum computing and those are probably the top three that we're looking at when it comes to quantum computing I should be very clear here we do not develop quantum computers at all that is far far far beyond our expertise but we are interested in using them so we want to understand how it is that we can use these things to better implement our network and to better grow our network so we have people who look into those options and how we're going to potentially use these quantum computers in the future Um we also have things like quantum sensing So understanding uh we have a very large fiber optic network Can we use that fiber network can we use that fiber optic network as a sensor but also can we use that uh can we also use it to connect sensors and enhance sensors using quantum um mechanics And then the final one which is probably the most relevant for BT which is quantum communications and quantum networking Um and predominantly for the last few years that's been in the QKD space So we have been uh looking at QKD We have a quantum uh we have a QSMN which is the quantum I can never remember what the S stands for and I'll probably get told off by my boss tomorrow but oh well Um metro network which is a uh live network in London which has two customers running over it It connects uh Ernston Young and HSBC to their Equinex data centers and we're doing that using QKD So that's our most commercially viable product at this point in time We actually have you know something that we've got customers on but then we're also looking at things like lots of other technologies as well So in terms of the initial question which I'm aware I'm rambling so I do apologize Um in terms of how close we are to actual uh using these things it very much depends on what technology you're talking about Some stuff we're at TRL1 some stuff we're at TRL 7 or 8 and it kind of just comes down to which particular technology That makes sense Yeah Ruth where where is academia at where where where are you headed are you working on any fun projects at the moment so um I think so I I mean I' I've been sort of in academia for about 25 years and it's been really interesting and amazing to see how quantum has gone from a a science to a technology in the past sort of 10 years in particular There was a big move about 10 years ago to really right we're going to go for it We're going to turn this into a technology that was really amazing to watch um because you know it was a bunch of scientists basically kind of writing down equations and doing experiments in the lab of cold stuff um and all of a sudden people were actually producing products and you know it was still very early days um and it still is I think very early days for some of the stuff but we're beginning to see real products coming out I think the interesting thing and the challenge now as academics is thinking and making sure we don't do the development part that companies need to do We don't we shouldn't be doing that We should be looking for the next challenges So there are you know all the you know whether you're working on algorithms or whether you're working on devices or or systems there are startups are almost doing the same thing as you So you've got to kind of leave that behind and find the next big challenges And I think the other thing is that now it's not just about sort of you know writing kind of algorithms or making widgets It's about you know engaging with different areas to look at systems So how are we going to put our QKD system into a telecoms fiber network commercially that's all sorts of other challenges um that we haven't thought about or where might we use be using quantum computing to make new materials So it's like we we're talking about engaging with chemists say or um looking for you know new avenues that we haven't looked for before and that includes industry So that means you know going out there talking to people like what what what are actually your problems um how many of those can we solve with quantum computing or quantum communication or quantum sensing actually quantum sensing I think is the big one that's going to be more important than people think it is So that's it's new It's different We're having to change way we do things but it's pretty good actually It's interesting time to be in it Yeah Yeah Franchesco you are you were working for a startup Can you tell us a little bit about what you are doing in your work and where you think it's headed yeah I mean first of all as always said it's quite important to actually distinguish between various sectors within quantum because is is very different things very different levels of maturity uh in different technologies and and readiness in general So that's certainly what we do specifically we do quantum key distribution systems So quantum cryptography um we've been basically what we we do now we we have built our our systems we have commercially uh deployed system around around uh Europe and uh and we are working towards further improvement further miniaturaturization of our systems to basically um to basically enable the widespread use of ourava technology and um yeah we've been collaborating with a lot of partners uh very recently as well with the with BT which is obviously very nice in in in various projects So yeah I think it's quite interesting to see that in quantum cryptography uh we've reached and not only us in fact a reasonably high level of maturity in terms of the technology itself And what we what we are waiting is really uh the the the industry as a whole the telecom industry to kind of and the cryptography industry to kind of accept the technology to welcome the technology uh to to actually um to to make the use of of the technology that is basically almost here Yeah Um a couple of you have have mentioned challenges and I think probably as a startup getting into industry is is a big challenge What are the pitfalls that face quantum what what what do you have to solve in the near future for this to become a reality i'll maybe start with with you Yeah I think for us is is really about certainly there is uh two things on one hand actually convinced that what we have is a solution So there is a bit of of that work of kind of like educational work for the industry to kind of like explain the solution in lay terms so that people understand the value of it but also on our side is the continuous development because we know from a fact that for example our system haven't haven't reached quite the the price point that enables the widespread use of them So is a there is a technical development that uh needs to go into um the um the system such that we we reach the price point uh from our perspective the material but also the time it takes to assemble system such that uh someone like a big corporate can actually invest and buy 10,000 units instead of five So that's uh but but the good thing for ourselves I would say after many years is that now the all the key um which is important to mention the key um tech technical challenges has been solved So now we're not talking about that's why it's important to distinguish between quantum key distribution and quantum computing because in quantum key distribution the the technical challenges has been solved So that we can build a system that does quantum G distribution where people can't be a quantum computer quite yet So is a substantial difference So for us is very much about on the one side educational uh aspect to the industry and the other one is really like push down the prices very much as a as a engineering challenge rather than scientific challenge Yeah what what are the challenges that BT faces in putting QKD in their networks so specifically QKD there's a few different aspects to that So um one of them which um was touched on earlier is the fact that there's an element of assurance which hasn't been met with QKD When I say assurance I don't mean like we know it works but it's then convincing the security organizations that it works because they cannot because it's a physically encrypting device it doesn't work the same way that classical cryptography works So as a result when you take something like the NCSE or IN or the NSA or those organizations they are very used to assuring sta standard cryptography and that's why PQC has been easier for them to assure because it's still at the end of the day cryptography it's standard cryptography it's new algorithms but it's standard cryptography so actually one of the one of the pieces of work that we have at the moment within BT and Bristol's part of this work kits is part of this work is around doing that assurance So we're trying to answer those questions that the NCSC has and we're trying to do that in what's called standardsbased assurance um and evidence-based assurance and there's many many work packages and that's to try and answer that question So that's one of the barriers to adoption that we have because when you've got the NSA in America saying we want PQC and we only want PQC it's very difficult to then drive a worldwide shift towards QKD when you've got one of the big players who's going solely towards PQC Um so there's that element of it which is kind of a a policy element It's like Francisco said it's a convincing argument It's it's selling the technology to these people to to various organizations Um and there is also an educational element I don't think our problems are actually different at all They're very similar They're just sort of slightly different audiences So our education problem is if we do have these technologies and we do plug them in So one of the big problems that we've had with running the QKD trials So we run the QKD trials over a fiber Um almost all of our field engineers are deployed with a handheld tester where they take the bit of yellow fiber that you see running around and they clamp on their handheld tester and it tells them which whether or not the fiber is live and which way the traffic's going And if the fiber isn't live they can then use that fiber to plug into whatever service they're standing up And now these are engineers that are put under massive time pressures They have to pro you know do so many jobs a day um the number of them working in the community is reducing and we're having to and we've got massive uh penalties from offcom if we don't stand up services quick enough So they're under huge pressures to get into the network find that dark fiber plug services in leave again When they take a QKD fiber which has got very very low photon counts they clamp their thing onto it and it says there's no traffic they unplug it and they plug it into the next service and we've just lost our QKD link and then it takes us a very long time to find that because we don't know exactly where it's happened So there's an educational piece in terms of our engineers because not all of our engineers are going to have quantum degrees The they're our field engineers and we don't expect them to have quantum degrees but there is an element of education when you're talking about we employ as a company over 100,000 people countrywide Most of those people work in the communities They work in call centers Those people need to know and be empowered to know how these devices work in a way that means that they can work with them So we need to do that step as well Yeah Is that a education obviously is a part of that but is that also a case of having new tools for this workforce if you know the the current machinery and devices to check fiber cables aren't up to the task quote unquote does that mean that BT also needs to develop new devices to check i actually don't think it's a matter of new devices I think it's a matter of the systems that we already have working better and actually one of the biggest parts of that is recordeping The records that we have within large organizations are very very poor I think if you talk to anyone who works for any large organization universities included will say the same thing Um and that's where existing technologies like digital twins could come in handy because we would know where different fibers in our network were going and what services were over those fibers So those technologies already exist We don't need to develop new ones We just need to implement them better Yeah Mentioning university then Ruth Yeah Um what you mentioned finding the the new next challenges what what are the challenges that academia is working on or that you're facing or thinking about So some of these technologies I mean they are well established So so the QKD chips that that Franchesco worked on they work you can you can make them sell them you know how to do them right but there are other technologies um that really are very far away from from from reality and some are sort of close to reality but need a bit more investment So I work on quantum dots they are um there are startups working on quantum dots The challenge there is to make all of these quantum dots the same and that requires investment but it also requires some understanding of some physics chemistry some some semiconductor physics and some deep physics needs to be done still really um but at the same time you know the other end of the scale is quantum computing um quantum computers are very difficult to build I mean because we're trying to add on um quantum particles which must interact with other quantum particles perfectly but with nothing else Okay we're getting very good at it but we are still very very early days and it's kind of actually teaching people to be very patient So so if if you were an academic you're you're naturally patient because you're working on something very difficult You're used to things not working You're used to it being very long time scale before you see something be reality be reality So when we talk about something being promising we're talking sort of maybe in 10 years it's going to be great That's not what everybody else hears right so when you see some announcement by Microsoft or Google or IBM that they've done the latest kind of advancement in the quantum computer everybody thinks hooray it's going to be arriving tomorrow but you know there'll be some announcement about some major firm or something you know and it's a very very very early stage piece of work that particular piece of work that was you know announced in a very kind of you know um dodgy way should we say even you know if you even if you read the paper and you look at the comments by the referee they're saying this is not really worded very well So that kind of that managing that hype has been very difficult and it's quite frustrating for academics because we've got quite a lot of rigor and we don't like to see these articles which sort of you know what we want to see is a nice steady kind of development of this technology with a a long plan and a long time scale that isn't just the sort of boom and bust kind of you know um throw money at this and then take the money away because it hasn't immediately kind of come to fruition and really looking at solving big challenges So one of the big challenges in a lot of the quantum computers they're superconducting little circuits They're a radio frequency you know um to get one chip to talk to another chip We got to probably convert that to an optical photon Incredibly challenging thing to do just in terms of the physics There are people working on this but we're still quite far away from just making that work And until that physics is done it's very difficult to put that into a timeline and say it's going to take us x years to be able to achieve it So still some really challenging physics experiments to be done still Yeah Is the and presumably among the challenge because the panel because you know each other anyway you understand each other's challenges but do you think generally industry understands the way that academia goes about this and startups understand what industry needs and universities understand what startups need Like does that does that work did does everyone kind of seem to be on the level playing field in quantum or is that I think this is probably like and this is just my personal interpretation of the situation and I when I say personal I mean because I know Ruth and Francisco and I did my PhD with Ruth So this panel is probably not the best place to answer maybe that question because I understand how universities work because I came from a university I understand how startups work because we work collaboratively with startups on a lot of different projects and I think we then hopefully feed that back into to the universities and the startups in terms of how industry works So I think in some ways Bristol has kind of created a bit of an environment where we do understand how those things work Um and part of that I think is because someone like BT we have you know approximately 200 I think it's about 250 people working in research and that's anything that touches a network and almost all of those people have connections into startups and have connections into universities and they understand how that pipeline works But if you don't put the effort into building those connections and building that group of people it is going to be very difficult to understand that when you see an article coming out of university what is the timeline between that article being published to it going to realistically a startup to it then being something that we can buy like that's quite a that is a long timeline and it's a very involved timeline Um but I do think Bristol's quite unique in that way in terms of how we will work together Great Bristol solves all the problems So pretty much we're done here guys They're amazing Is that is that your view as well Ruth do you primarily work with industry in in and around Bristol or do you have much dealings with So I've since taking up the role of academic lead QT in particular and also because we've got CDT students that engage with industry you know since I've been doing that role I've been talking a lot more to industrial partners and really I've been learning so much you know about you know the reality of things and I think previously I can I can still see a lot of academics are kind of I've got this amazing invention I've got this chip and it's like really small and then you kind of try to explain to someone that yes that's but but it takes you know a very difficult process to make it and oh yes but you do need a laser to run it that's more expensive than a Ferrari and it needs to be attached to this huge pump system which is going to pump cryogenics like like C to call it So it's probably and you probably can't move it from from a lab So apart from that it's great it's really small and and and mobile and stuff So it's about yeah it's about really understanding those challenges and not just thinking okay I'm going to solve this bit and then somebody else is going to deal with all the engineering challenges I think understanding the engineering challenges from the outset is really important Even if you're doing something quite fundamental Yeah Yeah Yeah Jessica you moved from your PhD straight into Yeah the startup world Do you think that the startup world is understood or understands industry and and academia i think I think I would say um in certain cases we understand better So certainly we have better collaboration with certain people A good example obviously is is BT but as well with others and there are certainly certain things that uh where is a continuous learning curve You never stop learning certain things So we are all physicists Uh I mean the the core team was physicists when we've when we started cats uh and we were not a cyber security experts We were not uh data center experts So certainly there is a continuous learning curve but that's what what we do as part of of our job So that's certainly something we we always need to fill fill the gap but and then there is and uh yeah there is plenty of opportunities to um to collaborate and this is actually this this grant the collaborative collaborative projects has helped a lot uh to actually fill this gap For example this Koshure project that Zoe mentioned is is very interesting because put together BT someone like Cass uh the cyber security um agencies that can actually steer uh the the discussion and the requirements of our system So uh we're learning and but we know that we're learning and that's and know we know that we need to learn So that's that's the kind of like the place where we are and obviously in the last six seven years whatever we've we've come a very long way we've come a very long way and now up to the point that now some of our system are are around our data centers and telecom networks Yeah Um one of the other challenges that I wanted to look at as well you we you mentioned workforce you mentioned asurances with with PQC and and QKD one of the other challenges is is supply chain I might maybe stay on you um Franchesco Um if you're building these phenomenal new groundbreaking devices where do you get the parts from yeah that's a good one Uh from everywhere Yeah that's that's a very interesting that's in fact is one of um the interesting part of my jobs my job really like we take parts from everywhere from something from the UK a lot from from Europe big chunk from Europe um quite a few quite a few parts still uh critical parts in fact very critical parts uh from from from Asia and uh so that's certainly um yeah certainly in the years in the years to come that's certainly something to look at that's uh um that government has looked at in given the kind of grants that have been the bits that have out to to fill this type of um supply chain gaps But is it certainly um is one of the biggest challenges that obviously we will be facing in the next few years But I mean as we know everyone will be facing is a but certainly is is quite an interesting one Luckily luckily Europe is still quite um quite strong in terms of the photonics which is the core of our technology So the photonics luckily is actually um very very strong in in Europe the Netherlands Belgium Germany and others as well So in terms of uh materials term of foundaries and this actually solves a massive headache for us because if as soon as we need to go US or Asia for the core technology becomes a bit becomes really painful Yeah Especially in geopolitical world of today Yeah Exactly Exactly Yeah Is is that is that definitely something I might ask you maybe not to comment on government but is is that that the government understands that that is a challenge I mean from what Franchesco said they do it they absolutely are you know laser focused on supply chains They're very worried about them I think they'd like a sovereign supply chain I don't think that's ever going to happen especially with you know some of the semiconductor like kind of technologies we're talking about I think though they haven't quite understood the quantum technologies are more or less a semiconductor technology What the things are made out of is more or less the same techniques and materials that using for semiconductors And I think they at the moment they tend to group quantum and AI together because they think it's a bit like you know some kind of computing um type thing Actually I think they probably need to start putting it in the semiconductor box instead because because until we start making quantum computers and they're becoming widespread and we worry about the the issues coming up with that I think the supply chain issues and losing all the investment I mean it's 2.5 billion is you know promised to be invested in quantum technologies next 10 years If all of that is lost because of you know companies being bought out or the supply chain is elsewhere then that's really you know it's not a good use of taxpayers money So um they are focused on it I think they they probably need our help as academics more and more to kind of help them academics and industry of course to help them sort of map out that supply chain and give us some sort of targeted advice about how to build you know not everything in the UK but things like pilot lines things like smallcale manufacturer um and some specialtities as well I think that's that would be really great What can industry do what what does BT have a a public stance on on supply chains do you advocate with government on this this I I think the easiest answer is I don't know And I probably am not going to try and guess because I'll probably end up saying something I shouldn't But it is like the the supply chain is part of our QA project So that is one of the things we're looking at as part of the Qishawore project is the supply chain around QKD components So it is something that we are aware of and there is very strict requirements that we have on our suppliers when it comes to their supply chain as well as our own supply chain Um so yeah it is something that we're aware of It's something that we're concerned about as I think everybody is at this point in time Yeah But yeah how you mentioned Europe maybe somewhat strange relationship sometimes with Europe How can we avoid another far away incident how do we go about you know not putting technology in in in our quantum technologies that we then have to go and rip out in five years time i think I think uh there is a I mean from from our point of view we are very selective in what we accept from where uh so we um that's that's one thing we we don't we don't accept everything uh from from East Asia uh in terms of components we we we we buy certain parts that are generally uh not not providing any any security threat So passive uh passive components uh bare PCB is something that is is doesn't have an active an active processor inside So certainly there is this type of attention that we we is a really like the baseline really and then but then is really like in our in our system there are advanced hundreds of of independent little components if you think of the electronics and uh basically we have we we we are very careful where we take things from and various various certain things can come from everywhere certain things they just come from from certain places Yeah Yeah Um this is a relatively big question but what what more would you want government to do in this space what what are they not thinking about you mentioned kind of maybe not lumping them in with with semic lumping them in with semiconductors rather than with AI Um talking about supply chain what else do you wish government was concerned about or thinking about if I can ask you Ruth if you can a sort of not low cost but I think fairly kind of cost-effective answers to some of this is look at what activities we already have join them up make sure that they're communicating better make sure that they can work with each other So we have different pilot lines doing different say materials um how can we join those up to do hybrid devices how can we include sort of testing facilities for example um make sure that the the kind of the offering that the UK has is a UK offering and not an individual kind of um you know this this facility here this facility there and I think that'll actually bring in inward investment as well because if we have this joined up supply you know supply chain some of at least even if it's pilot line people can come test things here and they'll they'll start to come here for the new ideas So I think it's one thing they could do Zoe what what should government do for for BT um I mean keep a lot to a certain extent keep doing what they're doing The collaborative research projects that we've been a part of over the last few years have been incredibly helpful from our perspective because um they enable us to get to know the technology at a very low TRL and also then to make sure that the when it moves to higher TRLs it actually answers the problems that we have and it can work within our networks So it's it's better for us because at the end of these projects we get project we get products are being produced that we can actually use we can actually go and take into into one of our exchanges and actually use Um and I think also to Ruth's point the identification of industries that maybe are have crosspollination in terms of um ability I think there's a really good example in in the South Wales in the South Wales cluster they have identified the fact that with the steel mills closing a lot of the people who have those skills working in those steel mills are actually the perfect people to train up and work in foundaries So they have a direct they have a direct retraining program for that from going from steel mills into foundaries So and there's going to be a lot of different examples of that right a lot of the engineering problems that is facing quantum are not new engineering problems they're engineering problems that have existed within the optics space within the semiconductor space within the manufacturing space for a long time So as we have these people who have these skills retraining them into the new work into a new workforce would be ideal because you can then scale up much more easily Yeah I think that's very cool And especially being from from South Wales it's it's been quite devastating to have all the the steel factories closed and and a lot of unemployment and then kind of realizing that you don't necessarily need to start from scratch You don't need to try and get students into universities to teach these skills if there is already a readymade workforce quote unquote that can relearn and and and adapt to a industry that hopefully has a big future I think it would be good to see the government fund kind of mid-career path you know career path changes so that you know you get somebody who's an engineer they kind of lose their job they can go and retrain fairly cheaply to do something else Um so it's not not leaving those people behind sort of in their mid midc career that have perfectly good skills I think but there aren't very many programs that allow you to do that So that that's probably worth considering Franchesco is there more that government can do for for startups well I think uh in all fairness as Zoe said I think it's been very supportive in terms of grants in the last few years Um in fact if we compare it with with many other countries by far better the best really in terms of uh number of grants and quality of grants amount of money So certainly carry on in this direction certainly maintaining that and now maybe understanding a bit in depending on the sector where the sector where a particular technology is but providing those necessary bridges that uh actually uh enables startups to scale up and then to become profitable So that may be something that uh can be looked into a bit more because there is a lot for like lower TRLs but then once the technology is there but maybe the industry is not there as is our case there is a is a serious challenge uh to actually uh fill the gap and that's that's maybe one one place that they started they started doing something in this sense but certainly uh uh carry on in that direction because that's where uh there there could be uh for a startup one year uh one wrong year is and that's it and you lose what has been very good six years beforehand So that's that's maybe the one place that there needs to be attention particular in quantum technologies that uh there is a a big variance in when they become they can become an actual uh an actual uh technology and actually uh use the technology So that's uh that's maybe one point Yeah Um I'm just going I don't have a watch in front of me so I'm just going to check how far we are in Um I might um I might open it to the floor and see if there are any questions from the audience um to make sure we have I think someone has a had a microphone as well Um yeah Simon go for it Thanks for that Um I I see it's World Quantum Day in a couple of weeks or about 10 days time Uh you know Bristol we we've got a heritage quantum the business of quantum the startup business quantum it's really from around here this is a good time to say Scott how are we doing to the panel and if there was a world quantum day in say five years time where would you like Bristol to be at that point perfect um Zoe let's start with you yeah [Music] um okay so maybe in terms of taking stock I mean I think from my perspective I should say like I'm obviously quite biased I did my PhD here I did my PhD within the quantum andics research team I've then had the pleasure of working with a lot of the quantum startups in the city Uh it's the one of the reasons that I get to live in the delightful Bristol and didn't have to move to Ipsswitch As much as I as much as I love Ipsswitch it has been very nice to stay in Bristol um saved by quantum because of the because of the the ecosystem that exists here because we are interested in quantum and we want to have quantum in our network and we want to have a network that is future proof for our customers and takes advantage of all these technologies and to do that we need to be working with the ecosystem that we have and the UK ecosystem and it just so happens that a lot of that ecosystem is here and so that's really advantageous so it's great for me um and it's really really nice in terms of where we are in five is um it would be great in some ways that actually a lot of what we're talking about is no longer a research problem Right i work in research within BT but actually it would be great if we're just handing these things over to our engineers who are installing them in the field So there is just there isn't a researcher working on QD because the engineers in the field are installing it and running it and maintaining it without us and we can turn our attention to those other technologies that are coming through So yeah from my perspective it would be great in five years time that those technologies that have reached that TRL8 are no longer research activities They're just BAU activities Ruth where are we in in five years time so I think um right now I think it's it's sort of in UK and globally it's quite precarious situation for quantum technologies I kind of feel that um we're beginning to sort of take off There's a lot of potential there There's a lot of pitfalls Particularly for the UK we spent a lot of money We were the first country to invest properly in a national quantum technology program they've put a lot of money in that you know if that momentum does isn't maintained all these fantastic companies like you know K is might get bought up and go elsewhere or or um you know we might run out of people because because there's just not enough you know skills here um but people being educated in in quantum and we absolutely need you know engineers on the ground sort of not you don't need a PhD necessarily but we actually do need those PhDs as well Um so it's I think it's a little bit touchand go but there's massive potential Um I think the scale up issue is actually the next issue to solve I think we've become very good at startups um in the UK and in Bristol Um it's been really interesting actually seeing how this the CDC students the PhD students the sort of a cohort the first cohort that we um um brought through in quantum nine out of 10 of them were working in startups That's amazing When I was doing my PhD I I had no notion of going to a startup at all Right So so that the atmosphere in Bristol particularly has changed Everyone wants to be involved in a startup Everyone wants to get involved in this you know new industry I'd like to see us build that industry So I'd like to see you know companies sort of making you know individual boxes and widgets but actually those widgets being part of systems that you know um the startups and big companies are working together to to put together and and and you know the research now being about not just quantum but quantum um plus semiconductors and the scale up How do we do that um quantum plus AI you know looking at what a quantum computer might do what AI might do what how they're going to work together to sort of solve problems That's still quite far off but we should think about it now That's an academic challenge for us actually Um and in telecommunications I think you know fitting the quantum in as one just one of the elements into everything else that goes in telecoms is a huge challenge actually But it actually at Bristol we've got all the kind of experts here and we can start an an academic level to start asking those questions so that industry can begin to pick them up later on down the line So and I would like to see that people come here and say I want to work in quantum and they might go to a startup then they might go back to academia then they might go to to BT or something they move around but they stay in Bristol That's what I'd like to see actually Franchesco from a for someone that work in a startup and I see a lot of my friends working in different startups in five years time I would like to have seen a few success success stories I want to have seen people becoming companies becoming profitable Uh maybe you know quantum is still coming from Bristol going through their quantum computer actually making it work Cats being using their system in an actual network in the hundreds So this is the uh that's what we want to see We want to see the the significant transition between yeah between these very first steps into industry to an estab established and pro profitable companies That's really if this happened in five years time that would be fantastic I think um yeah thanks very much for this Um yeah you mentioned Side Quantum Uh it's great to see them really you know starting to scale uh as a Bristol founded uh company and apart from cats what are other startups in this space that you would say perhaps for a large financial services company that are ones to watch uh based here in Bristol so there are I mean there is the one of some of former colleagues of mine is Silon They work in the medical medical industry They are quantum inspired uh startup I would say in the sense that they use techniques that they used in in quantum technologies but they do something classical for um um for for medical medical devices So certainly the they are growing they are um so certainly they are someone to watch There are a few uh there are a lot of companies that around around the UK that came through the QECH So the the quantum technology entrepreneurship program a few years ago uh new quantum that they are building um distributed quantum computing um and wave photonics that design uh chips and and um so there are a lot of companies that although they are not in Bristol they have still come through the and in fact I think it's like 50% is is a very high number of uh UK startups they have come to Bristol in one way or another So um yeah it's it's a very long list In fact there is a good chance that uh if you look at some startup in the UK uh they they have come to Risa I think um not necessarily for the finance industry at the moment but I the ones to watch I think are the ones in quantum sensing and things like navigation and timing and things like that So there's a great company called QLM who is using quantum techniques to image methane emissions from leaky pipelines So they can get a camera and they can actually see plumes of methane right really really important problem It's a terrible greenhouse gas and that's a very now very successful company um that they're they're doing really well Um there's also zero point motion They're looking at you know inertial navigation sensors There's also sort of quantum inspired but and I think what we're going to see is more quantumness coming into devices So they start being a bit more classical As the quantum technology evolves it'll become more quantum and it will because those companies have already established themselves They'll and they know all the quantum kind of technologies They'll be able to seamlessly integrate it all So you might start to see navigation systems on autonomous vehicles things like drones on aircraft is an incredibly important technology I think we underestimate the importance of PNT devices position navigation timing and and quantum sensing and network quantum sensing as well So connecting these kind of sensors up in a network in a city for example could be incredibly powerful Um so I think that's the ones to watch actually big and I think they're the ones that will produce the first kind of profits as well So any I'm not going No sounds fair enough you're happy with kids and [Laughter] that's also I turned it off Oh there we go Hi Um so I'm uh work for industry in a sensing company and uh I how to tee this up I think when I see the word quantum I can have one of two reactions Either are these people lying to them or they just put that word on it because it gets them researched It's a sexy word in in pop side things and actually what they've got is a fairly conventional bit of silicon as far as integrating it into other systems or is it something where um single photon imagery like it's quantized in some way or is it something where there's some weird witchcraft mechanism at play which the likes of us lowly engineers don't understand uh that I need to understand a little bit of in order to understand the design environment of what what are the levers I can pull in order to change that behavior of it at the end I was just wondering if you had a sort of uh a definition of what makes something good quantum that you think is sailable I think uh yeah that's something that in general we should kind of like start doing and is looking at application rather than the quantum tag uh in a sense is it useful uh uh yes or no is is it cheap enough is manufacturable these are the questions I mean despite the fact that someone has a quantum tag in their name because they needed it to actually raise money but uh that's the way it is but uh But actually look at the technology it's try to engage with the with the technical team with the team and understand what is the problem that they try to solve actually whether you call it quantum or whether you call it uh quantized detection which is is it doesn't I mean doesn't really matter the point is that is that single photon detection solving a problem I think I I will focus on that as we we try to do in every other bit of industry so are our quantum distribution system actually solving a cryptographic problem Yes or no that's the answer rather than they are quantum or not We don't really care about that really But actually QKD is a quantum device because it's based on something called the quantum no cloning theorem So it's a deeply quantum mechanical theorem that that you can prove mathematically Yeah So so it is based on is based obviously in quantum but what we care about is mostly that it solves a problem rather than and that's bit of a shift that uh maybe can happen to actually facilitate the the the interaction with someone like yourself but I also sorry I have a I think that at this particular point in time as quantum is becoming more adopted we need to be really careful with what language we decide to use because I think one of my biggest pain points is whoever decided to call it the cloud Because if we called it distributed computing everybody would be empowered to know what that means But actually what happens is you end up with a group of people who go "Oh it's in the cloud." And they don't understand it But because the terminology has been created to almost mystify it because it's easier because we can call it the cloud It disempowers people from actually understanding what they're using And I think quantum potentially faces that problem because it's exactly like you say when someone's talking to me about quantum is it the buzzword is it quantum mechanics or is it something else and I think as a result as an industry we have a particular moment in time at the moment to make that decision and I think we need to make it wisely and we need to be very considered with how we make that decision because once the language has been chosen that language is going to stick and you see that quite a lot within what I work in um and it's to the point that and this is a sort of slightly tangential but it I think makes the point quite well I had a presentation to a data center privately owned data center um a couple of years ago and at the end of the presentation the person who was who owned this data center asked me what our cloud solutions were for this particular product And we had to explain to him that he in fact owned the cloud because that's what his data center was It was the cloud But that's the decision that language that's the impact that language decisions have So we do need to think about that one I think that's a very difficult question to answer because I would say in some ways sometimes you have a box you don't really care what's inside the box but I think you're right also if we want different engineers to interact with these systems we need to explain the essential components of the systems right so we can't just have very vague and willy language either I it's a tricky one because I think not everybody needs to know exactly how every single part of it works and you're not going to and I think sometimes there is a value just putting something in the box and say it does this um it it's going to help you navigate and tells you where you are and that's it or it's an atomic clock or something Um and it is interesting sometimes to know what's inside it but sometimes it's also just a bit overwhelming for people as well So it's more thinking about you know what's it what's it for I think but but then on on the other hand things like quantum computing they really are a completely different way of handling information in the in from the from the very ground up and getting that across as well is it is important without making it sound woolly and and um you know vague and like we anything that goes that's the problem the kind of anything goes problem that that we quite often face that oh yeah well quantum's weird Anything that's weird is quantum I mean that's just not the case No Yeah Um so it's Yeah So it's kind of a communication problem isn't it and who who is who's going to sort this out i mean is there is there a national quantum body who should be taking the lead or global quantum body or do you all do your own little bits of coms i mean Franchesca you were saying that your next big challenge is is communications It's a lot about Yeah talking to people talking to people over and over again and then yeah send send the the next line uh be below the the tagline and explain that basically that's and different levels so the certain level of communication of you as an engineer who can then interact with it but for a ignorant member of the public they just need to know that it's a box that does X um I mean is that something that the industry is aware of alongside the technical the technical developments yet that coms is a explaining it because it's not it's not as as easy as explaining kind of regular stuff is it also not everyone that works in a in a in a quantum company is a quantum engineer or quantum expert so that also helps in a sense so our business development person is a maybe he's an expert in telecom maybe he's an expert in whatever else I mean someone can cars beforehand they they are good at business development they are not good at quantum so is is is within the startup or the company that actually this type skills are developed anyways in a certain respect Uh so that's uh and that's something that we need to keep learning keep reminding ourselves but and I think it's interesting because I think there is an element of this um where if I think about so my my main end user as a researcher BT is BT itself because my my aim is to sell research into the business for it to be adopted and then put into our network BT's end user is our day-to-day consumers and our business customers Do our business customers and consumers care about what the technology is and the network that's making their network better realistically not really They care that it makes their lives easier and their lives better and their data more secure But I think there is a moment where when you do have people that ask you these questions not to waste those opportunities I was at a conference and um someone was on stage It was not a it was not a quantum conference It was just a sort of general semiconductor Well not even semiconductor was a um uh sort of general quite general telecommunications conference and one of the panelists was uh a quantum computing um owned quantum computing company and a question was asked about how it works and all the rest of it and their response was oh it's magic you don't need to worry about that and I just felt that it was a wasted opportunity to bring people with you and I think that's where when I say that you need to be careful about what language you use if you have an option to empower people and to bring them with you with a techn when a when they ask about a technology it's making the most of that situation because not everybody asks So then when you say someone has the courage to ask and you say "Oh you don't need to worry about it It's magic." You have just wasted that opportunity to bring people on that journey with you Um I think it would be amazing if we had a wider communications if we had a wider communications policy when it came to these technologies because it is trickling into the media right you see articles about the quantum computing and you see these ones coming out about the the one last year about the top the the topological cubit in February that did its rounds I had so many friends messaging me asking me about did this actually mean that there was a quantum computer and I had to sort of say well define quantum computer do you want useful or sort of otherwise but it's now entering the mainstream so there needs to be a collective thought within the country of how do we educate people on what this actually means what is a cubit versus a logical cubit versus a useful quantum computer what do we mean when we say a useful quantum computer And I don't I haven't really seen anything in mainstream media that answers that And that's where I think people like the governmental departments can step in and do those things So I think coming on from that I think you're right I think actually this it's this this hype and the stuff you see in the media is very frustrating because we look at that and go this is just wrong and and and people are being misled and we feel quite strongly I think as as a community about this Um the reason it happens is because these companies want to show continued progress and and and make sure that the investment keeps on coming but it's going to you know um backfire in them at some point when the progress doesn't come I think the meta should be slow and steady One thing I would say is that it's right we should be looking at rigorous benchmarking for things like quantum computing which are very far off And I think the best idea I've heard is that you start to adopt some of the kind of benchmarking models that the the drug um discovery um the pharmaceuticals have kind of adopting because they also have very long time scales And if we can kind of adopt a a process where we're kind of looking at rigorous standards say we only report something when we've made this particular breakthrough and report how how much further off we are from you know on our road map then then I think that would be very valuable I think encouraging people to do that would be very good At the moment it's still a bit of a wild west you know So I would like to see a bit not not regulation exactly but some sensible voices in the community speaking up more than we are I think we are speaking up but we're drowned out I mean to take a lead really Yes To put some put some rigorous benchmarking Yes I think coming up some rigorous benchmarking say this is our benchmark This is what we think people should achieve um to to announce a breakthrough rather than just any any old thing Yeah So margarians or whatever it is Yeah Yeah I don't want to cut the conversation short and we do have networking afterwards but I think we are actually out of time and I think we have a relatively hard stop at 6

2025-04-14 15:55

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