Are 5G hotspots harmful for humans? [Award-winning talk]

hello everybody okay show hands who when swimming ready more than I expected very nice well I'd be careful let me tell you a story and I promisees there was a French scientist sailing in the open ocean the Indian Ocean the SE were relatively calm and I was just enjoying son when all of a sudden a freakishly big wave out of nowhere engulfed his ship very localized 30 m High almost destroyed it he came back to tell his story but nobody believed him it took years and years of sailors telling these stories and nobody believed because they were so rare until 1995 when a old oil rig in Norway detected something very [Music] unusual this is what we call the drop droper wave event and they measured a 25 M high wave this was the first measurement of what we call now a road wave and so they started doing experiments just like this and they discovered that road waves are consequence of constructive interference when you align the faces just right a huge wave can be generated just like our French [Music] scientists so you know where I'm going with this 5G also has these waves and 5G is a lot smarter than the open seat so it happens all the time I need to explain the concept of pre-coding this is what happens when a transmitter changes the phases in such a way that at the receiver the signal strength is maximized now I always say an animation tells a million words so consider this we have an environment where the Red Dot the transmitter is transmitting everywhere and the Green Dot is the receiver collects the signals now if we take these signals that take the longest time and send them the earliest and those that did the shortest time send them the latest then you can actually have all the signals at the same exact time at the receiver now precoding is a lot more complex than that but it illustrates the concept this L ladies and gentlemen is what we call a Hotpot and they are the analogy of both waves in RF EMF and it's the topic of my talk so for the last seven years or so we have been developing a tool to characterize these hotpots and it started with my fellow colleag sergy back in 2019 we've been improving it higher frequencies this is out of scope actually but uh we changed the rate racing to a quasi deterministic method which is much faster and lately uh we changed it to hybrid racing Bas for Vi guv I went too fast for my but it's okay so we can choose any location on the entire Earth and I mean any that is covered by Google Earth meshes I picked New York because it's inspiring it's the World Trade Center in Manhattan and we have a person walking across uh where the World Trade Center towers once stood and you see green lines and red lines emanating from a base station to that SP the red lines are are nonline of sight the green ones are line of sight and we can look at the starts here it's the person starts walking somewhere around World Trade Center One World Trade Center Tower takes a corner and walks through the trees now you may be noticing these red spheres and those are the base station locations and I got them from open cell ID which is a crowdsourced location service for base stations it's not the real location it's an approximation it's a very big approximation and this is a serious FLW of the method because I simply don't know where the base station locations are in New York City but these base stations to look uh sorry these base stations are being forming antennas and they create that Hotpot at a receiver specifically at its ear we consider this Tiny Box around it where we will compute the fields now this is the whole walk the method itself is a little bit of out of scope for this talk but the bottom line is we compute the fields on this H spots with precoding do an fdtv imation and then compute the exposure so let's get a look at those hotpots shall we first let's take a slice through the box and get a look at the fields inside of it now the Hotpot may not be in the center it may be anywhere and um we will right now in the upper right corner and we will consider slices true that hotspot e ex Y and Z Dimensions essentially and along the dimensions we will look at what is electric Fields the x- axis is this red line Y AIS is green z-axis is blue and for all three you see of course a peak where hotot is this is how I'm going to do my characterization approach along those two dimensions and let's take the first one X for example and look at some characterization metrics now I only have 12 minutes so I'm not going to be able to explain all of these but uh maybe just one why not dimensionality is one I coins for these three the dimensionality is three because it's the number of Dimensions along which you will find a peak sometimes it's only two dimensions in which case The Hot Spot looks more like a cylinder instead of a sphere this happens in line of sight cases where there's only two multipath components anyways uh that's about 86% of paes our spherical hotpots now we have a the human is also walking so we have to do our characterization a long time for every time step and I'm particularly interested by what is what is the average hot spot to that to do that we have to average in time now we start out with the electric field we're going to do some mathematics but everywhere it's it's hopefully logical so we will take the time average of the electric field along the 6 minute walk it's approximately 6 minutes in New York City now I don't have a holographic screen so I will take the norm of the electric field and we will show that now take uh notice of the order in which we first average and then take the norm we call that propagation wise averaging and this ladies and gentlemen is a slice of the electric field average and I was really quite excited to see this because For the First Time at 28 gigz do we have any idea how it looks like these are seriously understudied and what do we notice side loopes just like an atom we have one big field in the center and then three more cyclopes and some angular dependence now we can look also at a slice to the x-axis characterize the F width at half maximum the PS Etc that's I only have 12 minutes now the electric fields is at its maximum at zero the magnetic field has a inverse Bas relationship with the electric Fields it seems and that means that the troughs of the electric field corresponds to the peaks of the magnetic fields and vice versa and that's exactly what you see here isn't that exciting so you see at zero there's a there's a trough where the electric FP was a p now the incident power density is combination of the Electric magnetic field so they kind of cancel each other out now for the attentive among you did you notice the order in which I am averaging and taking the norm that's right it's different this is what I call exposure wise averaging because you first take the exposure metric and then you take the average and that also has an effect on how the hot spot looks so the Peaks and TRS kind of pant each other out and the result is well not good for the hot spot because it kind of vanished I mean still there's still something there but it's gone there's three things I want you to take home today just free try to remember them when you go to the hotel tonight and think of what is Rob repr [Music] present don't go swimming no let's not do that first thing way is hospitals are very important to study there's over a 12 DB gain and it only increases when you get more massive M antennas without BS second take away Advanced end to endend realistic tools are required to study these hotspots this only that way you need the base station the user the environment and I think that's the reason why it's understanding because it's very difficult to create these tools very Advanced tools oh this should be oh anyways uh thank you for listening to my talk uh I'd like to thank my [Applause] coauthors any questions are you a judge Jud what software do you use to create your presentation I I use a combination of software probably you the answer you're looking for is man this is a basically coding your slides if you want is a GitHub link somewhere like a code can SC your code than you okay thank you for this presentation I emphasize the fact that it's very beautiful I just wondering what is the did you try to compare the results that you get with other tools or like simple regular like the values that you show is 07 micro per so did you try to compare to other tools numeric or even measurements and of this comparon validation or something thank you okay in question the answer is no because there are no other tools to compare it with there are no other end to end analytical tool realistic tools from base station all the way to the exposure and measurements there are many but right now in 2024 the accuracy is not good enough to compare deterministically with measurements one of the reasons for that is because because of the locations of base station it's not correspond as for the low values this is also because the results are normalized with one watt TX power and I again don't know what powers are play stations in New York City does that answer your question thank you thanks for the I have a question about the a do you have for why you use propagation for the key field and then you change the order yeah it's an excellent question well to be honest it's it's there's two reasons first of all because the propagation wise averaging gives the most insight into what in into the side LS and the nature of the hotpots and the electric field is not an exposure metric it makes more sense to do exposure wise averaging for the actual exposure metric and I just wanted to share uh the electric field what and it's what you would consider an average Hotpot okay we will move on with next presentation from you please thank [Applause] you okay so I have a [Music] question you already know what what's coming who who went swimming how much percent do you think of of the general population still isn't entirely sure that 5G is safe any guesses 10% 30 no s 7% 30% if you include the people that are unsure 61 and I wanted to share that number because maybe we all need a bit of a reality check that's an awful number 21% believe is harmful while there's no evidence I got this slide from the speaker of the last presentation thank you for that and one of the takeaways was that advanced realistic tools are required to model hotpots it's important for the general public to know what realistic exposure assessments is and not just worst case not just radiating rats in a lab at maximum power they want to know if I walk around in my street how much exposure am I actually experiencing and for that we need these tools also for the network planning for EMF a network planning nowadays cities like Brussels and Geneva are doing deployment stops because people are genuinely somehow scared of safety P also I was mentioning I I need data I need the locations of Base stations or um for example the antenna pattern of the ericon Bas station and I went with much excitement to Google and I type this in and uh yeah I didn't get any results and this is the case for a lot of those problems a lot of those data is just not available now I hope I I convincing you of something here I'm actually Fally using the Aral uh model of preservation with the logos EOS and papos that that we need data we need realistic actual data to improve the methods exactly the methods I was talking about in my previous presentation and it's just not available that's why it presents for you the solution the Outreach I did is something I invent it's a acronym for outdoor realistic EXP exposure assessment for Next Generation Celler networks on humans now don't be fool it's not a project there's no funding it's just an initiative it's my own idea and the idea is to talk with industry and with governmental institutions and hopefully get some actual data get some locations of Bas stations their antenna patterns smartone LS now I have a wish list first of all I would like to get the 3D locations and configurations including their power control their Duty sites all these things from real 5 Base stations instead of trying to reverse engineering in measurements these are provided for example by Telecom providers they're provided by governmental institutions that hold a cadaster of all the loc of all the places where antennas are deployed is this for example INF C I'm not sure if you know it it's a nice website where you can just zoom in and find the locations of Bas stations anywhere in France but I want to do this for the entire world I want High coverage so we need to talk to a lot of people also want the antenna patterns and models of 5G 5G base stations these are made by aricon Nokia Samsung Etc and this is quite hard to ask because it's proprietary data and as a PhD student it's it's hard to it's it's really a problem if we want to move on if you want to be even more realistic this is for example ansis that is using these antenna patterns they from actual smartphones and they have the privilege of actually doing more realistic simulations while we're all kind of struggling to find these or we use worse case assumptions and proxies also need digital twins with both high accuracy and High coverage because if you want to convince the public they want to know if 5G is safe in their streets the accuracy is really important because at 5G the frequencies are high and therefore if you want to do proper weight facing the mesh resolution must be in the order of centim which is very challenging and as far as I know the only real possibility are uh just providers AR Google Maps which have been using Nvidia as well has SP digital video this is from Eric and they have semantically classified 3D environments and as a PhD student that makes me a little bit jealous because I don't have that and I can't do my simulations without finally also the smartphone antenna patterns and their models of course from the classic design as you all know but also from the original equipment manufacturers from the antenna module makers those could all be companies where we could ask for data now knowing this I went to Outlook and I wrote an email to Tim Cook CEO of Apple and went something like this dear Tim can I get the cat file for the iPhone 50 Pro Max Mitch love [Music] next day I got an image that's him last okay no that didn't actually happen but it illustrates my point I can't just ask my dad we have to do something bigger so how do I approach this we have to Garner support at BM right here right now I want to see if there's actually a need for this and I really I'm interested in your opinion and I want to discuss with you now in question time afterwards what your opinion is of this and actually brought some some forms with me these out very simple it's just your name who you are your email address and whether you support the Outreach initiative I'm interested by experts in the fields to give their support and use their Network I've made a website a video everything is centralized all the data is where all of the information is in one place and we can convince the industry to share proprietary data under ndas my point so they're all on an NDA sealed on the hard RVE somewhere in the basement we do our simulations we publish exposure realistic exposure assessments and we never ever share them again now why would they accept you might ask there's really three actors in this you have the public Academia and Industry and the public might ask the question to Academia is 5G safe and I will answer well we did some simulations and we didn't really have all the data so we did some assumptions which are the worst case possible and then you're overestimating exposure and there's not really a way to do realistic expor Sy and so the public ass industry is 5G safe and Industry response with their certific ation of their equipment but the fact of the matter is the public is have decided concerned the anti communities they are they they think there's a conflict of interest even though there's not but what they think so also industry lacks a bit of vision for 10 years from now we should be doing realistic exposure assessment of 6G instead of 5G because we have to be ahead of time the proper way to do this is public asks Academia is 5G safe Academia asks indry industry through the Outreach initiative can I have your data we receive the data and we give a realistic extimate of the exposure that's why I think it's more convincing for the public and it's better research if we have Collective call action right now I think there's also higher chances that they will say yes and I also believe that might be a domino effect if a couple of really really large companies agree to this all of a sudden others might hold well now what if they don't except I need a plan B that's why I did a very very turn literature with you if you want you can read it in the abstract and and I won't go over it completely because actually consciously want a little bit more time for questions for this session so basically the locations we have open cell ID as I was talking about the transmitters patterns we can use some proxies from tgp the environment we can use open street map which is not it's not fine enough Ander we can use some up hes so if any of those stages we fail to get any data we can use this so I'm really interested in what you think and thank you for listening to [Applause] me we be quick one question perhaps thank you Robin great great initiative um I completely agree with you we had similar um challenges when we wanted to do our 5G exposure assessments and two things first question is have you already approached industry have you sumed them up I mean do you know whether they how do they feel about this okay so it's a it's a good question I have not comprehensively asked industry because I also believe this it's better to have an embargo one moment to First Look inwards at Academia what do we think what can we say as a whole group instead of me as one un meaningful PhD student and that's also what I want to talk to you and then I will proceed to the uh moment where we ask and I think it's also more powerful to ask at once with a very strong statement instead of sending 10 emails and hoping them Qui might answer the 11 Point well that's wise but I have two um um industry is not just one entity there's so many different operators and they often are very hard competitors so approaching industry as a whole you will face a number of different sort of attitudes and there is a strong competition so that's one thing and the second thing is that you should be I mean the initiative should be very much um Consulting legal matters of because I'm sure that the different operators they do not want the other operators to get their hands on their data so there is this element of legal and of as you said NBA sort of aspect that we the community need to do maybe we should approach lawyers and see what is the best way of approaching industry so to assure them that we not there to interfere with their commercial activities we want the DAT of Sci those are excellent comments yes I [Music] Gul one it's not a question just a comment congratulations for the excellent presentations I believe you have truly demonstrated what effective science communication is all about we have a lot to learn thank you very much thank [Music] you hi Robin this was a great presentation two great presentations um so I also don't have a question but so I want to say I completely support this in I one in um but it's not only about the base stations it's not only about the the network Behavior but it's very much also about what your phone is transmitting at at what time we don't so we don't have enough information there unless we use these very expensive tools and only a few of them can be used in in in studies um while like received power is is U just provided by by the phone by the chip there's we cannot reach to the transmit power for the um the transport blocks so times actually transmissions and so we we rely on on very um bad proxies if you can also get this information this this would improve U exposure assessment a lot thanks for for this thank [Music] you time more discussions associated with these two TOS time I just like to thank you feel presentations and please join me in thaning all the s final note uh I have these forms uh I would invite everybody uh to uh speak to me after the session I might be by the door to hand them out and yeah you can bre your thought thank you

2025-01-04 06:11

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