#21 - Need to Know - "UFOlogy Must Die?" (09-14-22)

#21 - Need to Know -

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foreign this is need to know real talk about the  reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon   from Australia Ross coltart  from the U.S Bryce zabel hello and welcome to need to know I'm Ross  coultart from somewhere near Sydney Australia   and in Los Angeles my co-host and colleague  Bryce zavel you've been swatting it recently   Bryce in the Emmy Awards I noticed lots of  little glasses with umbrellas in them I mean   if well thank you for that it's been a fun time  you know here in Southern California we've been   going through the extreme heat wave and it um and  it's been something to to contend with right now   for example it's so freaking hot and I'm in my own  office right now with and the AC broke yesterday   so there's just one thing after another but  I wanted to say um you're so right the Emmy   season has been upon us for the last 10 days and  um as as you know and many of the listeners and   viewers know I used to be the chairman of the TV  Academy and I did not know at the time I ran for   that position I became the first writer since  Rod Serling to hold the the job I didn't know   that you got lifetime tickets to to the Emmys so  I've been going to the Emmys every year I go to   the creative arts Emmys The Prime Time Emmys the  parties and I don't want to complain uh it's great   food good fun good entertainment good people but  it's a lot but my the one thing I feel sorry for   you about because I was in Los Angeles as you  know only a few weeks ago is having to wear a   penguin suit in that incredible Los Angeles feet  if I was you I'd be wearing what some of the women   have been wearing a nice Slinky little silk number  uh well I don't think I would thank you for that   however I don't think I would look as good in a  slinky little silk number I'll tell you the one   thing about the tuxedo what do you call that a  penguin penguin yes okay well uh you're closer   to Antarctica than I am so that would make sense  I guess um I tell you when it's a black suit and   it's 100 degrees out and you're you're walking  through the heat at least nobody can see you sweat   that much so it's it's got its advantages now the  thing I I think it's actually pertinent that you   ran the Emmys right because one of the things you  learned was you were running the Emmys during the   crisis in 911 weren't you the right 2001 Dreadful  terrorist attack on America and you learned a fair   bit didn't you about crisis and disclosure how  to handle the prince I think all our days began   uh either turning on the TV or listening to the  radio or someone we know calling us and saying   have you seen what's happening and then trying to  find out what the town thought was appropriate to   do about uh the situation and and that's really  been the defining moment for us I thought it was   an interest without a doubt it was the most  interesting time in my life uh I got elected   a couple of weeks before 9 11 hit and so the very  first thing we had to do is cancel the Emmy switch   rescheduled for September 16th so we did then  we rescheduled them for October 7th and on that   morning the U.S invaded Afghanistan and nobody  wanted to come so we canceled them a second time   and then we put them on the third time against  the seventh game of an exciting World Series it   was really something America strikes back if there  were something to happen again do you see yourself   canceling this again for good or no matter what  happens this show will go on our plan on November   4th is to give the Emmys away one way or the other  and so uh the show is going on and that's our plan   and I guess if I have to show up on the stage  and hand them out myself I'll do that Bryce I   don't know if you're a baseball fan but uh you  know you know that there's a risk here the World   Series will be going on at that time if there is  a seventh game needed between whichever teams are   playing it'll happen on that same night it'll  happen on Fox and you're going to be broadcast   on CBS and those two programs could bump into each  other how worried about that are you I'm not I'm   not a CBS programmer but I'll tell you something  thing Matt it seems to me that if what happens   on November 4th Sunday night is that the World  Series is broadcast live on one network and the   Emmy Awards is broadcast Live on another Network  that is a powerful symbol to all the world and   especially to Americans here at home that things  are going on the way they're supposed to be going   on because things are still happening around here  and so I would look at that as a good and positive   thing instead of a negative but I do think it has  some lessons about disclosure because it's uh an   official act to sort of reach out and brief people  I was sort of the briefer in Chief and and oddly   because uh the Emmys sort of represented Hollywood  people were looking for us to show that we got it   and so we had to really calibrate our messages  one of the things that I came away from very   strongly I've always believed in transparency but  I certainly believed in transparency when it comes   to important issues people don't want to be messed  with they don't care what the truth is exactly   they may have preferences but they want to hear  the truth and so we never we never tried to make   it anything other than it was it was a serious  situation we had snipers on the roof um but I'll   tell you the one thing uh that also mattered which  is kind of interesting is to get your message so   that everybody gets on the same page quickly  and so sometimes that involves just saying well   what's the simplest way to say something so for  example on the safety issue I started saying to   people you'll be safer in your own bath you'll be  safer at the Emmys than you will be in your own   bathtub which was statistically true and I think  the lessons for disclosure are uh you just get   on with it uh you try to be honest with people  you know it's not going to go perfect every day   you're going to reassess the situation uh and  yet the world has to go on and that's that's   what I think is uh the message for a disclosure  and I look forward when we do a new show that's   all about disclosure there's some deeper lessons  and we'll talk about some of those at that time   it's funny though you know because one of the the  best segue from what you've just said there about   the need to be transparent and the need to be  open is that frankly I think the Navy's decision   to refuse John Greenwald of the Blackville the  release of the other redacted videos the sorry the   censored videos that are still being held inside  government and inside the Pentagon these are   videos that have been seen by members of Congress  Senators Representatives which have been shown in   private Skiffs private hearings and in a great bit  of work John Greenwald from the Blackville tried   to obtain those videos because they've been widely  talked about they've been widely acknowledged and   not un unlegitimately illegitimately you know the  argument is if it was okay to release the go fast   the Tic Tac and uh the gimbal yeah and they were  fully unredacted when they released why can't   they release the rest of them and the Pentagon  the U.S Navy has come back with an excuse that   frankly I think deserves a blowtorch it needs  a Hypersonic missile basically because frankly   I I just do not buy the explanation that uh for  some reason the U.S Navy needs to protect sources   methods capabilities um in order to you know  if it releases these videos it would somehow   compromise National Security and I think if  you're talking about transparency if you're   talking about the fact that people are now openly  talking about the fact that there is a phenomenon   that is not explicable that is not capable of  explanation that cannot be prosaically explained   that is doing weird things in our skies that is  a threat to National Security and flight safety   it's a very bad lesson for disclosure that the  U.S Navy who I've previously been very kind to  

has basically uh decided to gag and censor then  at the very least we need more explanation don't   you agree uh well I I do a couple of thoughts uh  on the issue of redaction uh I mean I it depends   on how you Define redaction those first three  videos that came out were awfully short I mean   they're tiny tiny pieces of longer videos so  in that sense I would argue they were redacted   um we're certainly looking for let's put it  this way one there's rumors of a 20 minute   23 minute video that's blowing Minds in the  halls of Congress when people were showing   it in Skiffs and so forth frankly one great  video is going to change the entire game and   I think the people in Washington who care about  such things probably know that I was as shocked   as you were to see the Navy on the wrong side  of transparency because ever since we've been   doing this podcast uh one thing has been clear  it's been the air force that historically had   to deal with the UFO issue and didn't do a good  job of it because they kept denying it denying   it denying it and now it looked like we were in  for a new period of openness with the Navy and   I was really welcoming that because they seem  to have the best interests of transparency and   and disclosure uh however they were going to do  it so I'm a little disappointed I'm more than a   little disappointed I think this is something that  has to be fought I I I it's funny nick West took   a swipe at me basically saying oh yes we need  to roll over and meekly accept the assurances   from the National Security establishment that you  know there's a good National Security reason why   we shouldn't heal these these uh these videos  yeah I just think that's [ __ ] and I'm calling   on that I I think it's time to start getting  aggressive people need to start writing their   Congressional Representatives they need to be  shaking the cage because we're at a very very   vulnerable time now we've got the Appropriations  defense Appropriations legislation which has got   the key sections in that bill that would allow  whistleblowers to be deposed in hearings before   the congress with protections and immunities to  stop them from being bullied or threatened or   prosecuted because they've breached their ndas  revealing UFO UAP secrets so the Congress is   debating that at the moment and as I know from my  recent visit to America in Washington DC you know   there are people in the Congress who are well  disposed to ask hard questions and to get these   issues answered but they're not going to keep that  momentum going unless people rattle the cage and   frankly I mean we we had those two dweebs from  the intelligence Services back in May who came   before the Congress and gave a complete wet his  explanation that endeavored to suggest to the   Congress that whatever these objects were don't  you worry your tiny little heads about it they're   probably Chinese drones and as you and I discussed  in the last podcast that's a load of bollocks   um you know there really is I think the beginning  of an attempt by the Navy which I've previously   been quite supportive of because a lot of  the push for more openness and transparency   on this issue has come from the US Navy but  it is crushingly disappointing to see the U.S   Navy's Representatives both in the Congress but  also in their answers to John Greenwald giving   an explanation that frankly is implausible if  it was okay to release the Tic Tac the Gimbal   and the go fast it's okay to at least consider  releasing part some or all of the videos that   are still before the Congress in Skiffs I think  one thing we should clear up right away though   is okay what if they do have those hearings  but those hearings are private right what if   those hearings are behind closed doors and are  secure hearings I think a lot of people are very   interested in public hearings they would like to  know uh something and and also I am continually   not happy with the idea that we Define the  terms here as if we have to disclose everything   at all at once what I think people are basically  expecting the U.S government and other governments   around the world on this globe to do is to confirm  that this thing is real and we have to look into   it and that they're going to start going through  what they've got and share it with people people   want to know what is happening we understand  classification I think everybody can can realize   that there are times when sources and methods  for example are uh up in the air and and need   to be protected in a very dangerous world but that  doesn't mean you hide the essential confirmation   that we're not alone if indeed the US government  and other governments are convinced that we're not   alone why they don't share that with us seems to  be uh the thing that really Riles me so I I just   wanted to pick your brain on this I know we both  have our different sources what are your sources   telling you about whether these are whether we're  going to see public hearings in 2023 well the the   feedback that I've got is very much that there is  no plausible reason to not release some or all of   these videos at least in a rejected form you know  I mean sure by all means if you're filming from   the the cockpit of an fa-18 fighter you don't  want to show a potential adversary the uh the   weapons read art or the systems reader that shows  how well and at Fleur Imaging system can detect   an object from 20 miles away appreciate you know  you don't want to reveal probabilities and methods   but I have a strong suspicion and unfortunately  the Navy's conduct in this whole area is leading   people to this perception whether it's true or not  by gagging the release of any of these videos by   putting a blanket refusal on the release of any of  these videos all the US Navy is doing is fueling   the perception that it is trying to conceal  from the public that there is an extraordinary   explanation for what these objects are I do  not buy the sources capabilities and methods   explanation the idea that it would breach National  Security hence we have to stop the release of   every single video I've spoken to Congressman  senators and I've spoken to their staffers none   of them have suggested to me that these videos  cannot or should not be released let me just throw   one thing in there though also respond to what  you just said earlier which is private hearings   I also think that it's inevitable that there are  going to be private hearings I I think that the   first section of hearings would would have to be  private um frankly I think it's important you know   we do we do need to respect National Security  concerns there does need if the implications of   this are as awesome as we suspect they are then it  does need to be discussed in private hearing but   the notion that there won't after that be public  hearings where a version of what's being said can   be revealed for public analysis and scrutiny is  absurd there it is absurd let me just the thing   I was just gonna throw in there is I don't care  about seeing the dials inside the fa-18 okay I'm   not demanding my government disclosed with the  cockpit of our super secret or top aircraft look   like I want to see the craft that those dials  are revealing and if they have images of craft   I don't see how showing us the images of even just  one of them and just saying yep here's an example   of what we don't know where it comes from or what  it is and we we're looking into it or if they have   looked into it I'd like to know what they think  about it interesting you we were talking about   government here uh you know we do polls here at  need to know once in a while on our on our Twitter   feed and we just did one a few days ago where we  asked people uh what person in the U.S Congress   do they think has been the most effective on the  UAP issue and we got over a thousand votes on this   one Ross and it was kind of interesting it was a  blowout there were they only give you four options   for for in a Twitter poll so we could have put  everybody in but we couldn't we had to pick four   so we picked uh Kirsten gillibrand uh Timber Chet  uh Marco Rubio and Andre Carson okay and it was a   complete blowout gillibrand was 73 I mean that's  like Landslide plus territory burchett was number   two with 14 Rubio 10 and what's interesting to  me is you were talking about that limp uh hearing   that they had on May 17th of this year which  was put together by Andre Carson for a while   people were like hey man maybe he's the guy maybe  he's the guy that's going to do this and he put   together such a limp hearing he got three percent  in our pool he suffered in this one so listen   um I while I do agree with you um that we're  gonna have to uh respect some security issues   uh I hope that they rapidly get to the public  hearings because people are ready to hear about   that okay let's help Let's help our audience with  the timetable for that because I know there's been   discussion that the ndia the national uh defense  authorizations act um might be passed or at least   the sections pertaining to whistleblowers for  the uaps issue might be passed earlier than we   expected but I suspect it won't be nailed down  until the end of December like it was last year   the ndfa laws and that's the Appropriations for  the defense department for the following year and   I think it's almost inevitable from what people  are telling me that we've still got the January   six hearings dragging on uh we've got the  upcoming midterm elections so I think there   are a few distractions that are going to make  it very hard for hearings of any substance to   be held until sometime next year but I recognize  respect that early next year you're going to start   hearing about private hearings on the hill I mean  I'm told they've already been quite a number of   private hearings that have taken place inside the  Congress in Secure rooms where certain senators   and congression Congressional Representatives have  already heard evidence particularly from military   personnel and that is that's what's emboldened  them to go harder okay we had a brief disruption   because I had to put headphones on because of some  technical issues but Bryce there's one other issue   that I wanted to discuss with you which of course  is the relevance of the month of October there's   an issue coming up for Americans and the relevance  of uaps in the next month October yeah October   is a big month it could be a game changer let me  explain uh when the National Defense authorization   act that you were just talking about that has very  powerful immunity and witness protection language   in this year's version last year demanded that a  yearly annual report on UAP be delivered no later   than October 31st of every year um to me that  means it'll come in on October 31st because the   last one was due on June 25th and that's when it  came in so they're going to take probably they're   like a college student they're going to take all  the time that they need to get that paper and then   they're going to turn in at the last minute okay  what could be in it well okay remember the last   one said that these things are real uh we probably  don't make them and we don't think Russia or China   makes makes them so we're gonna have to advance  from that let me back up here in the United States   our midterms are happening uh on November 8th  those are the midterm elections all of Congress   Senate and House I mean a third of the Senate all  the house many Governors everybody up for election   so here's the thing about October uh there's a  concept here in the United States about politics   that there's of the October surprise which is some  big news event that happens the month before the   election and then affects the election well  okay our midterm elections November 8th the   the new report supposedly coming out October  31st man that is the ultimate possibility for   an October surprise because if this new report  does advance the conversation in any meaningful   way from the last one then at least somebody's  going to be talking about it what about these uh   these Congress people that we just talked about uh  you don't think gillibrand and and Burchette and   Rubio and all are going to have uh things to say  about it and Rubio by the way is in a really tough   re-election battle in Florida so in the final week  of of his campaign a guy who's been outspoken on   the UAP issue is going to have a UAP report uh  being dumped around the country so I mean I don't   know what it's going to say but I know that it has  the definite possibility of doing something that   we just never see happen UFOs slash UAP almost  never make it into the election and when they   do it's an afterthought uh you know when Dennis  kucenich ran for president admitted he saw UFO but   he made fun of him that was it this is different  this has the possibility of being perceived as a   national security issue and as a national security  issue it has reason for reporters and people in   the media to talk to these politicians and say  what's your take on this so I don't know I'm   not saying we're going to have a blowout here  I'm saying it's possible because we literally   don't know what's going to be in that report but  I'll say one final thought on it Ross it's going   to tell people like you and me something because  either it advances the conversation where that   last one was or it retreats if it Retreats that is  the best evidence possible that people are trying   to put the genie back in the bottle okay but  there's one positive bit of light that came out   and this was in an addendum to the intelligence  authorization act for the fiscal year 2023   and Congress has made two quite astonishing claims  in that legislation the first is quote cross   domain transmedium threats to the United States  national security are expanding exponentially   that's a big claim and the second is that Congress  is now distinguishing between UFOs uaps that are   human in origin and those that are not quote  temporary non-attributed objects or those that   are positively identified as man-made after  analysis will be passed to appropriate offices   and should not be considered under the definition  as unidentified Aerospace undersea phenomena the   document says now that's really quite important I  know it sounds as dry as dust but it's very very   oh wait I don't I mean it depends on uh it depends  on who you are whether it's dry as does I want to   explain uh one thing about our show on our show  we try we we want to be everything to everybody   I guess we want to be a show that if you know  something about this topic you can still enjoy   watching us and and joining in on the conversation  but if you're just coming to it we want to be able   to help bring people into it so what I want  to point out about what Ross just said is   we didn't make this stuff up folks this is  from the U.S government in their uh and our  

representatives in their official works and I  just have to say this again I hope I get it right   correct me if I'm wrong cross domain transmedium  threats are expanding exponentially so break that   down Let's cross domain what does cross domain  mean and God means going from water to Sea well   that's transmedia that's transmedium right from  space to Atmosphere to see is that also have   you picked it up cross domain yeah maybe because  I'm told they're seeing these things now in the   Middle East as well see that's what I thought  that's what okay so let's just break this down   cross domain probably means where they're being  seen in in terms of uh okay transmedium means   from space to Atmosphere to Ocean or from Ocean to  Atmosphere things that we don't really build craft   to do and then threats expanding exponentially  I mean damn it that is some serious talk from   people that got elected to go to Washington DC  and and make laws and they're now talking about   openly and at the very least we should just  underline this and put it in bold and italics   it didn't used to be this way for the last 75  years basically or at least yeah 75 years the   US government when it spoke officially about  UFOs was to act like there wasn't a lot going   on and that uh people that saw them or reported  them and might add a little screw loose there   they're not saying that anymore things have  changed they sure have you know it's funny   because I mean I I guess the takeaway from that  is that essentially Congress now seems to be   specifically distinguishing between objects that  are human made and objects that aren't yeah oh   no that was the other part of it it's like yeah  and and it also appears to be contemplating the   possibility that these objects are constructed  but they are not built by humans well let me put   it this way if you're creating precise language  for to go into a law and you're not worried about   things that aren't human you don't really have to  make a big declaration about things that are made   by humans and things that aren't I mean that's a  distinction I don't tend to make in my everyday   conversation with people so when you see that  in there you have to at least tell yourself   that was said for a reason hey yeah go ahead go  ahead there's a guy there's a guy a really good   article actually by the way advice that I would  refer people to and they were following up very   much on groundbreaking work that was done by the  UFO researcher Doug Johnson but in in the course   of that Vice article there's a quote from marikamp  who was an Obama DOD official and he's quoted as   a saying that the implications of these new bits  of law are this implies that members of the Senate   intelligence committee believe on a unanimous  bipartisan basis that some UFOs have non-human   Origins after all why would Congress establish  and task a powerful new office with investigating   non-man-made UFOs if such objects did not  exist I I it blows my mind so that's the thing   if 2023 isn't a big year coming up I don't know  why it's not I mean the things are all set up and   teed up and and I know you have some thoughts  about it I wanted to just drop one other poll   that we took because I find this stuff kind of  interesting I'm not saying our polls describe all   of America or all of the world there are they're  a slice of UFO activists uh that we get a chance   to look at on Twitter we asked them recently in  a second poll did they think 2023 was going to be   Sizzle or fizzle when it came to UAP disclosure  and openness and here's what's interesting   we have an almost dead heat about 40 percent uh  for people who think it's going to be sizzling   and lots of things are going to be popping and  40 percent say it's going to be a fizzle and   it's not going to amount to anything like it ought  to and about 20 undecided now what that tells me   Ross that I find fascinating is even among the UAP  slash UFO crowd who knows about these things they   are evenly and deeply divided on whether they  think things are going in the right direction   or the wrong direction and I find that interesting  because we're all looking at the same set of facts   right I mean the we all we all read these articles  we listen to our you know people's podcasts we   hang on the words of people from DC and yet we  have an a complete split down the middle about   whether it's going to be a big year or not so much  and meanwhile UFO Twitter starts to self-immolate   and tear itself apart I've I think this is one  thing we need to talk about yes we do go ahead   and take it just the incredible goings-on on UFO  Twitter at the moment where for some reason people   have eaten a bit too much red meat and decided  to take a swipe at Lou Elizondo in particular   um let me give you my take if you like on what's  going on I want you to hold for just one second   though just one second let's set this thing up  about Lou Alexander because again not everyone   knows everything about everything blue Elizondo  is the person who ran the UFO group for the   United States until 2017 and he resigned to try  to take his story to the public and he's been a   lightning rod of controversy but he's also been  the guy that was on 60 Minutes and about oh 10   000 podcasts expressing his opinions  about things and he's he's been enormously   controversial so we can't really say he's  just crossed the threshold into controversy   he's very controversial so having set that up  he also had a hell of a week so take it away   sure I'm not going to single out individuals  because it's pointless because I don't frankly   I don't want to buy into the the nastiness and  the infighting but uh the thing that I think a   lot of people have been doing is picking out  inconsistencies or uh issues that need to be   checked with Elizondo particularly about the  status of the work that he was doing for the   pentagon's UAP investigation program uh either  under the moniker atip aatip or orsap aawsap   um basically there's no doubt because Harry  Reid the senator has no before he passed put   it into a letter Lou did run some kind of UFO UAP  investigation program in the Pentagon but there's   a section of UFO Twitter that is tearing itself  apart ascribing all manner of sinister motives   to Elizondo because he's basically made claims  that the Pentagon disputes I know is Susan Goff   the Pentagon PR woman has on occasion disputed  Louis zondo's claims to be the the head of atip   or the director of atip and more importantly I  I actually think there's one inconsistency that   I do think Lou needs to explain and I suspect  at some stage he will which is in his various   tweets he has asserted that he never had anything  to do with orsap which is the apparently the real   name for the the program that was farmed up  by the DIA to Bob Bigelow's bass uh Bigelow   Aerospace company to do the UAP and indeed  paranormal investigations that they all did   but frankly there is an inconsistency because  Lou in his Inspector General complaint and a few   people have quite legitimately pointed this out  he has uh said that um he's acknowledged that he   did have something to do with orsap and that um  you know he was connected to warsap so there's   a there's a contradiction there that he needs to  explain now a lot of people have seized on that   and other inconsistencies and lose a cad and  they've also seized on the fact that he's a a   counterintelligence agent a counterintelligence  officer to suggest that What's Happening Here   is that he's essentially some dark agent of  the U.S government pushing a threat agenda   to justify military expenditure to justify  a huge amount of money going to space force   now my personal take on this is yes we should  always be skeptical when somebody who still has   by the way a national security classification  with compartmentalized security clearances we   should always be skeptical when somebody is  purporting to be a whistleblower but yet still   enjoys their security classification and it's good  to be skeptical I would hope that Lou would hope   that we're skeptical but I think for people to  immediately seize on those inconsistencies and   start character assassinating him and suggesting  that he's some kind of dark Voldemort Lord who's   coordinating a disinformation campaign against UFO  Twitter against the whole push for transparency   and that we're all being manipulated in some  kind of dark counter-intelligence operation   show me the evidence and I don't see the evidence  from what's being presented what's your take well   we can't call them Voldemort Voldemort because  that's the guy who cannot be named and if the one   name everybody seems to know is Lou Elizondo  he is synonymous with sort of a current UFO   uh discussion here's what I find odd about this  thing if the knock on Lou Elizondo is currently   that well because he works for space force as  a consultant or whatever he's doing for them if   that proves that he is a tool of the government  then that would mean somebody in government has   pushed him out and said okay Lou we want you to  go on those 10 000 podcasts in 60 minutes and we   want you to tell everybody that UFOs are real  and that uh we've got great evidence of them   and that we think there's been crash wreckage and  everything else find that well I mean okay let's   say that that's actually true well then that means  the government is pushing a disclosure agenda and   they're doing it in their own way but but they  are pushing it so I find that a little odd now   I will say though that anybody who's in the public  in public life uh it knows that they're going to   be looked at and looked into um I I heard a  podcast with uh John Greenwald the other day   uh where he was taking the complaint that Lou  Elizondo had filed with the Inspector General   and going over a redacted version of it listen  I thought his he was a calm and fair presence   uh going through and I think it's perfectly okay I  mean maybe Lou Alexander should go on his show and   talk about it maybe you should come back on here  and we'll talk about it uh what do I think though   I find the guy to be fairly compelling I find  him to sound like a guy that's uh pretty much   knows what he's talking about and uh I also at the  same time though find that he's reached the end of   his rope he's a little thin skin these days about  the the attacks and I don't blame him because you   and I have talked about it too people say bad  things about either of us when they see watch   one of these things they leave a bad comment  it does kind of get under your skin and it   makes you angry and Lou has has fired back a few  times which I think is totally his right to do it   um it is interesting though that  he literally wrote an article   for Liberation times last week that was  called um I he I think it was like YouTube now here's what's funny about it because on that  same day I I literally heard from Lou's wife that   um they had watched a video that you and I had  had produced for this channel that was called   oddly enough a profane rant about modern  ufology and they thought it was very funny   and uh first of all that made my day that  you Elizondo was watching this thing but   um if people want to see that and get a sense  of the frustration level some people have had   with ufology go to need to know dot today which  is our website and it's posted on there on the   main page and you can you can also look at that  but I don't know Ross I want to ask you the same   question though I mean at the end of the day you  know you've talked to many thousands of people in   your career I've talked to many thousands myself  and I remember uh thinking to myself quite often   that it made me a pretty good judge a character  that I could look at a person and and hear what   they said and I'd been lied to my face to by  experts over my journalistic career I'm sure you   have too so you talk to Lou Elizondo man-to-man  eye to eye what's your take because Lou is a spook   a trained counterintelligence officer doesn't  make me innately skeptical of everything he says   um one of the difficulties that I have as a  journalist and I'm sure you have the same issue   is a lot of the perception that I have of Louis  zondo is colored by what I know privately from   people who've spoken to me in either the defense  or the intelligence Community or in the Congress   and I can tell you he's held an extremely high  regard nobody is telling me that we should have   a disbelief of what he says because there are  and there are as John greenwald's pointed out   there are inconsistencies that Lou needs to  explain about why he said different things   about whether or not he had a role with warsap but  frankly do you hang a guy on the evidence of a few   inconsistencies in documents I don't no and one  of the things that one of the things that I'm used   to as a journalist is I talk to spies and defense  officials all the time it's my job and often they   spin you I mean I I can remember member right back  at the time of the Iraq War there were people in   Australia's defense intelligence establishment  who were genuinely concerned that we were going   to war on some very specious evidence and a lot  of that evidence was coming through Australia you   know we were quite heavily involved in helping our  American Ally and I wish I wish I'd picked up more   on what those people were indicating but it just  seemed so Fringe and there seemed such certainty   that there was a legitimate reason to evade invade  Iraq and we were misled and so disinformation does   happen it does and Lou is an interesting case  because one there's really just two possibilities   one is he is exactly what he said he was he he  ran the program he got fed up he left so he could   really be a truth teller all right in which  case then he's saying some pretty astounding   things as the truth that he had to tell by leaving  government or option two he still got relations   with governor government and this truth that he's  telling is one that they want him to tell which is   also supremely strange so what I'm sure I'm sure  there is affection and I know this I know that   there is affection in the defense and intelligence  Community who are right behind blue yeah the quest   the question is which faction will dominate and  and Brian Bender made this point this week that   a lot of people who don't understand who don't  report on National Security and defense they tend   to see the National Security establishment as one  big amorphous blob yeah the real the reality is   that the defense and intelligence establishment is  as snipey and as [ __ ] as UFO Twitter they're all   shafting each other all of these agencies the NSA  the CIA the DIA they're all trying to undo each   other the whole time they spend more time like in  my my career when I wasn't working for Australia's   60 minutes but I was working for other programs  in the same network we would do our little best   to screw them over and make it as difficult as  possible for them you know there's a rivalry that   takes place in organizations and I think this is  happening in National Security and defense and so   I'm not surprised at all that there are people  inside the National Security establishment who   who are telling uh commentators that you know  you should be skeptical about what Elizondo   is saying but I think we should actually look at  what's happened in the last five six years since   the very first inklings that there was beginning  to be a degree of transparency and disclosure   look at how far we have come since 2017. oh it's  it's it's astonishing you know I was thinking as   you were saying that though I go well we've  responded about Lou Elizondo and we've just   done five minutes on that we should actually  respond to what he had to say right the content   of what he said was ufology must die right okay  now everyone who knows Lou thinks he's a pretty   hail fellow well met most of the time right so  he's not Lord Voldemort yet there he is saying   ufology Must Die well here's my take on ufology  Must Die first of all you got to Define your terms   what exactly is ufology if it's just people that  are interested in UFOs and uh and talk to each   other on social media I don't think that can die  or should die because I'm part of it and I don't   think I should lose my rights to speak so I'm not  a hundred and ten percent sure of what Lou thinks   he's suggesting be done and I was wondering if you  have a different take on on his way of looking at   it I think Alexander could have been clearer in  the medium story The Liberation time story that   he wrote I don't think he expressed it very well  I think the broad sentiment that he was expressing   if I can Endeavor to read between the lines on  what he's saying is that there is a tendency on   UFO Twitter to get obsessed with minutiae and lose  sight of the big picture it's becoming very very   unpleasant I I actually endorse what elizondo's  sentiments are which is that it's time for and   I think this is what he meant I think what he's  referring to is that it's time for the field of   UAP research to go beyond The Fringe yes time  there are people who purport to speak as The   Gatekeepers for what people should think and say  about the phenomenon and frankly their time is   over this is this is a moment where the mainstream  media needs to start engaging where people like   you and I can start taking an interest and I think  generally it's not a question of establishment   media taking over and you know we'll we'll look  at this and give you our assessment it's where   good thorough rigorous objective scientific  analysis needs to come in we need to look at   data we need to actually properly assess sightings  reports there needs to be an attempt to collate   information in a responsible and serious way one  of the problems that that I'm really worried about   at the moment is at the very time when Congress  is basically deciding whether or not it runs with   this ball you've got UFO Twitter behaving like  a bunch of frat kids fighting each other over   over you know who gets the credit and who gets  the glory I think frankly it's a combined effort   and and people need to stop sniping and bitching  well lose stop stop worrying about the minutiae   and focus on the broad picture okay but uh I  I just don't want anyone to get the impression   that you know this is some kind of elitist  thing I I'm not saying and I know you're not   saying hey you know we're responsible people so  we should get to come and talk about it I think   this is a big picture story that affects everybody  on the planet everybody has a right to talk about   it now what's frustrating and I wish would stop  is when it gets personal personal attacks never   seem to advance the cause of knowledge they cut  they Advance the cause of emotion and right now   we need to get on the same team I mean I think  one of the things that we should clearly all be   thinking about and that probably this is the  essence of what he was just saying is look if   there is another intelligence or intelligences out  there that are watching us or paying attention to   us or interacting with us that makes all of us a  little more uh in common than we thought we're all   human beings and we should behave as if we like  each other a little bit more that should go across   the board we you know it's like my mom used to say  when I would fight with my brother you guys need   to be nicer to each other and I think that that's  probably true um one thing I did want to bridge   to because I know we're running out of time here  Ross we have little housekeeping work that you   and I need to do what people need to understand is  there's a great hour and 18 minute video that was   made with your folks at Channel 7 in Australia  with their production help and uh I think right   now on YouTube it's close to 800 000 views and  on its way to a million so I think you and I are   both deeply uh thankful to channel 7 for their  assistance in doing that and also thankful to   all the people that that would watch it now that  was also an adjunct to the one hour uh documentary   that you did that has so far aired only in  Australia so there are a lot of things out there   that each one of us has something that people have  sort of glommed on to that we need to explain a   little bit more so I thought I would ask you  about your issue and then you can interview me   about my issue and we can try to set the record  straight okay now not everyone saw uh the bets   ball piece that was in the one hour documentary  so I think you probably do need to give a quick   explanation of it but the main thing people want  to know is they felt uh they feel a little at   Sea that the we discussed this and we we went  to a guy's house to see this uh device but we   have not actually updated anybody yet on how  it's getting tested so maybe you can sort of   tell us a little bit about what it is and when we  might expect information from the uh testing that   Dr Gary Nolan was leading the charge on sure okay  just to explain to our viewers and listeners in a   documentary that I made for channel 7 Australia  which you can view uh I think a lot of people   have ripped it off and put it on on the web if  you find it but essentially we we went to Texas   I I decided it was time one of the things that  I have copped a lot in the last few years from   people is that in my book and also in the films  that I've made I've never addressed people who   purport to be victims of abduction encounters  with non-human entities frankly I've never known   quite what to do with it and we heard about a  guy in Texas called Jim marlin who purported to   be an abductee and he still does by the way I find  him a highly interesting and credible and lovely   bloke and he also claims to be in possession  of an object that he believes is of non-human   manufacture and it's uh very interesting because  the metallic sphere that he's in possession of   bears an uncanny resemblance to what are known  as bits balls which are these metallic objects   that were discovered by people in and around  the United States and since the 1970s in fact   I've received calls from people all over the world  who've seen some of these spheres and a couple of   people are actually in possession of them now in  terms of where we're at with the testing basically   we took scrapings off the sphere and took those  to Professor Gary Nolan at Stanford University   Gary's still doing his tests and he has a day job  which he has to do uh we're not in a position to   be able to pay an enormous amount of money for  the kind of testing that needs to be done so we   have to wait for the laboratory results to come  in from Gary and as we promised in the story we   will publish those results if and when we get them  the good news that I've heard from Gary this week   is we've been very worried about how you X-ray how  you scan a solid metallic object like this and we   have now apparently found a person who is willing  to scan this object with a proper industrial x-ray   machine so we may be able to look inside it  and get some idea of the contents of the object   one of the difficulties that I hadn't actually  contemplated is that when you go to an industrial   X-ray place and ask them to x-ray something they  want to know what's inside it that's interesting   and since we don't know what's inside it we can't  guarantee to them that the x-rays won't interfere   with what's inside it so you're saying that that's  a good question that's why we're coming to you   yeah yeah but I mean a lot of people have given  have given me stick for basically even giving   credit to the idea that there might be something  anomalous about this and just to explain we're   not saying that no what we are doing is we're  giving we're doing what what frankly Louis zondo   is arguing we should all be doing objectively  assessing the data and essentially what are you   suggesting are you suggesting that we should just  stick our heads in the sand and ignore this issue   no I think for us though I mean can I just finish  this point yeah I'm sorry yeah John Mack wrote a   book about abductions he wrote a book John Mack  from Harvard University Professor Harvard wrote a   book about abductions and Ralph blumenthal's done  a follow-up biography on John Mack recently and   even Harvard University was forced to accept that  it was legitimate for John Mack as a scientist   to investigate the abduction phenomenon that's  all we're doing and the interesting thing to me   about the Marlin case the sphere the purported  bit sphere from Texas is that he is claiming   not only to be someone who's had encounters with  extraterrestrial or non-human entities he's also   claiming to be in possession of a sphere that  is he believes of non-human origin Let's test   it we don't lose anything or gain anything by  testing it more we might gain something if it   turns out to be alien technology but you know I'm  skeptical and what I'm doing is I'm indulging that   Curiosity and frankly if people want to give us a  bollocksing for doing scientific text testing and   trying to be objective about it then [ __ ] them  I don't give a shout I really don't I mean this   is this is what we should be doing uh you know the  the reality is um and it's funny because you know   there's this kind of mockery that takes place oh  gosh Ross is engaging with Brazos and who believes   this phenomenon is real it doesn't mean I do no  I mean and and and and and what what the what   the people what the critics don't understand  is this is what we've got to start doing and   frankly this is what we will start doing when you  have an American government that is at this very   moment acknowledging the possibility that the  explanation for this phenomenon is extraterres   industrial or alien when that possibility is  being openly canvassed by former directors of   the intelligence agencies I think the Director  of National Intelligence Avril Haynes anything   is possible so yes bugger you we will be looking  at this and you know and frankly if people do   if people want to take us on about that then  stuff then I don't know rat's ass Ross you've   just opened up a whole new cult art here this is  uh fascinating to me look you're going to get a   lot less uh [ __ ] for the bets ball story than  I will for from people who say why won't Bryce   let Ross talk so uh okay so I'm sure I'll get more  comments than you listen here's what I just want   to say about what what you just said besides  my admiration for your Artful use of profanity   um and that would be what is this all about um you  know is there already a party line about what is   acceptable or unacceptable to say about UFOs I  think there can't be since nobody knows exactly   what they represent so yeah we are going to pursue  things and uh we'll try to do them as legitimately   as we can but the one promise that we're where  we're trying to be a little bit different is we're   saying if we raise something we're not going to  let it just die we're going to report back to you   all right so as Ross has just said at some point  Gary uh Nolan is going to get back to Ross about   this and Ross is going to get back to you people  who are listening and uh and that's the way it's   supposed to be so I guess now Russ you have to  turn the tables and I've got to do my Mia culpa   okay so let's talk about this Ian the story that  you and I have put to air on seven spotlights   digital channel which anybody can access by going  on YouTube and putting in seven Spotlight UFOs   you'll find the one hour 20 minute story from you  and I in which we interview your old colleague and   good friend Brent Friedman who was the co-producer  of dark skies and in the course of your Dark Skies   launch you you guys both told this extraordinary  story about how these two Intelligence Officers   men who purported to be from the Department of  Navy intelligence came to your home at first   and then to your Dark Skies production office  and yeah at one stage the guy wrote on a napkin   what he described preposterously as the secrets  of the universe sound light and frequency now   everyone including me my friend wants to know what  happened to the napkin okay and you know partly   um that documentary uh that Ross is referring  to again if you just can remember need to know   dot today it's there you can go there need to  know dot today and you can watch it uh the one   thing about that is Rawson because this thing was  made so quickly Ross and I did not have Final Cut   on on how to uh edit the what actually finally  aired and so as a consequence that little detail   did slip by and believe me if you look at the  comments a lot of people were saying okay man   you you talked about this show us so I'm gonna  tell you that but let me just back up very quickly   here's what happened it's December it's 1996 NBC  is putting a show on called Dark Skies I'm having   a party at my house 200 people a guy shows up  at the house says he's from the office Office   of Naval intelligence talks to me my partner Brent  Friedman and another producer Brad Markowitz and   and Brent's wife and uh tells us that they want  to help us with our show to get things right okay   well with you can hear Brent's version in my  version in that documentary at the end of this   thing though the guy asked for a piece of paper  I remembered it as a napkin Brent remembered   it as getting a piece of paper from his wife off  their checkbook uh you know that's what memory is   sometimes those but anyway the guy takes a piece  of paper and he starts writing on it and he says   um why don't you keep this for a few years and  this may make more sense then and he holds up this   thing that looks like a mathematical formula and  he and we said what is that and he said secret of   the universe I don't remember him saying Secrets  I thought he said secret but see that's what I'm   saying he said secret of the universe sound light  and frequency all right so everybody's saying   great show us the equation okay so here is my best  explanation of that when this happened um I was   again hosting a party out in my backyard I didn't  take possession of this piece of paper Brent did   Brent took it with him um he went back to where  he was living and he put it in his safe deposit   box as instructed and to be honest with you uh  I saw it with my own eyes so did Brad so did   Brent so that his wife a couple other people but  you know the way life works is you get you got a   family you got a job you start paying attention to  that Dark Skies got canceled Brent and I moved on   um over the years I would ask him about it he  would say yeah it's safe and secure and a few   years ago I just said you know enough I want to  see it I'm tired of this please take a digital   photo and send it to me I want to see it and uh  I really put my own friendship with Brent on the   line I demanded to see it and so he went looking  for it and then he he looked in this safe deposit   box and it wasn't there and then he remembered  that he had taken it out of his safe deposit   box when they changed Banks or something and  he'd taken it home so I said look man you got   to find it because you know it's it's a quarter  of a century it's time for us to tell this story   so Brent has been looking for it and has not yet  found it it frustrates me as much as you Ross as   much as anybody who's watching uh that documentary  uh all I can tell you is um if I have to go up to   Brent's house myself and go through it or get the  FBI to go to his house you know they're not going   to do that but if I had to go look for it myself  I will do it because I just think you realize this   is going to sport a whole new conspiracy theory  for us that the the Men in Black the the Navy   intelligence guys rifled the house and opened the  safety deposit box and took the napkin and I know   it's all been a massive cover-up I I mean you're  adamant you're adamant that this document was real   oh no formula that he wrote was real um doubt  in my mind I was there I saw him write it I saw   what it looked like I think that the thing that's  hard for people uh to accept is that you would do   you would get something like this and you wouldn't  instantly go well this is super important I better   hold on to it but you have to understand that you  know Brandon and I were producing a show we moved   on but at the same time we thought well we'll put  it in a safe place and someday later we'll address   it because we weren't sure these guys were who  they said they were so if they were putting us   on we thought why are we going to waste precious  time looking into it look there's one more bit   of laundry before we go that I want to deal with  which is um I'm gratified and and the flattered   and humbled by the response that both you and I  are getting from our audience all around the world   um I at the moment though am overwhelmed and  quite emotionally and mentally exhausted from the   volume of emails and messages that I'm receiving I  tried to add them up the other day on the multiple   platforms that I use but I've got somewhere  between 35 to 40 000 unopened emails and messages   the volume of information coming in the door is  frankly enormous and I I wish you and I had the   resources to be able to investigate it as much  as we'd like Bryce because it's quite exciting   I mean there's some astonishing information some  astonishing informants coming forward and all I   would plead for is I'm gratified that people are  contacting me but please be patient I've got some   people who are furious with me because I haven't  been able to respond to them and they don't appear   to understand I'm just one guy doing this on the  back of an oily rag you know literally on the back   of an envelope right mixing my metaphors there I  don't have the resources I don't have a pay great   stuff you and I aren't getting paid for doing  this by the way we're doing this as a public   service and and frankly I think we would like to  talk to our audience about the fact that we'd like   to become more professional we'd like to upgrade  what we do wouldn't we yeah I mean I I think   that is a great Point first of all I feel your  pain uh 37 you know when I get a hundred behind   a hundred I'm like okay I I'm just deleting them  all because I I gotta I gotta

2022-09-17 15:22

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