Same. Sex marriage is being legalized, in a growing number of jurisdictions and, a growing number of lesbian, and gay couples, are having children today. On family matters we, take a realistic, look at same-sex. Parenting. You. You. Whatever. Your views may be about, same-sex marriage. The reality, is that more, and more same-sex. Couples, are becoming, parents, whether, or not they get married how. Do same-sex, couples, become parents do, these couples, and their children face, challenges, that don't exist for other families, that's. What we'll be discussing today we'll. Meet a lawyer parenting, two children in a same-sex relationship, but. First let's, meet dr. Anthony, Hutchinson, who, is a social, worker and professor. Who, teaches sociology. Of, marriage, and the family dr.. Hutchinson welcome to the show Thank You Justice brownstone do. You agree with me that same-sex. Couples, are becoming, parents, at a rate, much higher than ever before well, what we see in terms of tracking and monitoring in canada. Where, the statistics. Are quite rigorous. Across, the nation there. Is propensity for same-sex, couples, to be recognized, as couples, and to marry in crete, increasing, percentages, based on our census data, similar. Data in the united states is more difficult to track because. In, many states they. Don't have laws that acknowledge. Same-sex, couples. And their rights as people to, cohabit, and so they don't keep track of these couples, but we know they're there absolutely. And they seem to be having children, far. More frequently than, when. I was a young. Adult well, it's, it's a matter of the measurement, when, we pay closer attention to, social. Facts, in society, then it. Would appear that numbers, begin to increase what, we do know is that. Same-sex. Couples, in encounter. For example are about, point, eight percent, of our population, so. There's roughly about. 75,000. Same-sex. Couples across Canada, out. Of the millions of families that we have and we know that roughly about ten percent of those same sex couples. Generally. Have children, sometimes. Those, children, were pre-existing, from, previous relationships but. What we also know is that women, tend. To be five times more likely to, have children, in the relationship, in the same sex relationship, compared to let's say a gay men but we know that same, relationships, are roughly split, but. Maybe 60 40 in favor of men. Take. Us through very, briefly what. Are the reproductive, technologies, that exist out there for same-sex couples, to have children what. We understand, is that things. Like adoption, assisted, fertility, in. The form of donor insemination tend. To be technologies, that are accessible to. Both. Same-sex, couples as well as heterosexual. Or traditional, couples as their point but. One, of the things that there, still is is a stigma, around. Same-sex. Couples, accessing. Such, technologies, in 1997. The legal case in Alberta of Mrs T for example who, successfully. Parented. 17. Foster, children, the. Minute that her, lifestyle, was deemed to be a saint ex lifetime from its previous heterosexual, lifestyle she, was ruled to be an unfit, mother when, she wanted to adopt and so, there and that same stigma, and double standard still seems to be pervasive. Despite. The. Legality, of same-sex, marriage, across count up from july. Two thousand, and five and then, in then even in some of the american states where, it is is legal in the United now what does the research say about children, who are raised by a lesbian coupler, or, gay. Men how. Do these children turn out is there a higher likelihood that the children will be gay well. I think what we have to understand, is that it really is about people you. Know using, labels such as same sector, TSA's straight it. Does have implications for, identity, but people, are people and what, the evidence shows is, if, a child is being raised.
In A loving accepting. Caring. Family, by a loving, caring, accepting. Individual. Parent. That's what's most important, for example. When we look at child welfare agency, data across Canada, the. Majority, of cases, of dysfunctional, children and children gone awry are coming from straight parents, there's. Very few child. Safety, or investigation, matters that, where the parents were deemed to ever have been gay. Or same-sex. Couples, so, what. We understand, is that it's really about the relationship. Between the parent and the child and, that's, what we need to be looking at, how loving, how how, caring, how accepting, is that child and and, when we look at the data around self-esteem. Functionality. Of the child in terms of performance, in school, functionality. At home, in. Terms of how the children feel the channel feels loved and accepted all, the data shows it does not matter whether, or not the, child, was, raised by a same-sex, couple or, a straight, couple all, that, matters is does, the child field, love safe, and accepted, but I think you're talking, about how, emotionally. Healthy that child will be how. High. Achieving the child will be how. Able. To function, in society but, what about the sexual orientation. I think a lot of people still, think that if, a, child is raised by two women or two men that child. Has, a higher likelihood of, turning out gay then. If that child were raised by a heterosexual. Couple, there's. Very very good social. Scientific, evidence, that's, very balanced. In terms of methodology and. What, it basically demonstrates. Is that it. There's. No greater, likelihood, of, a child becoming. Let's say gay if they have same sex or straight, parents on you. Know, homosexuality. Is not. Passed. On genetically there's absolutely no evidence to, indicate that what. The evidence does overwhelmingly, Cho is that, gay, children are typically. Born from straight parents that's. True for every gay person I know they, were raised by straight people not, gay people we're going to take a break and when we come back more with, dr. Anthony, hutchinson, stay with us. You. You. Welcome. Back to our discussion of, same-sex parenting.
With, Our guest dr. Anthony, hutchinson, dr., Hutchinson you, teach a course, in college about. The. Sociology. Of relationships. Correct the sociology, of marriage and the family and, you. Cover the. Same sex relationships, in your course yeah we we address same-sex parenting, as well, as all different, modalities, of family life now you don't self-identify, as, a gay man what, interests, you in this topic what, interests me our people and I think that all people have a right to self-determination to. Be who they are and most, importantly, every, human being has a capacity, and. A need and a propensity to love and to care for other human. Beings and that's. What I'm interested in exploring what. Is the love, acceptance. And caring dynamics, that we, as human beings share. With each other and with our children what. About the, the. Mentality. Out there that says that it's simply, not, healthy, for children to. Be raised by gay parents, they, will be stigmatized, at school there's, such cruelty going, on there's bullying, that. These kids will, not have a balanced. Upbringing because, of the cruelty of others, not that the parents, are bad but, others, will, stigmatize, them what. What we see is that bullying. Occurs for, a plethora, of reasons and, if, it's. Not going to be because, of who our parents, child's. Parents are it's going to be for another reason for, example, if a child has a parent who's a police officer, maybe, that child will be bullied in her ass because their parents a police officer, if they're, their parent is a newcomer, to Canada, or a newcomer, to the United States as an immigrant they could be equally, bullied. So what we see is that we can't scapegoat, any. P. Any person, in an across our society, for. A reason to believe children, or to look. At you know what their sexual orientation is, but one of the what the research shows about same-sex, parenting. In particular, is the fact that there's. No, greater propensity, of a, child. Who's. Eased by. A same-sex, parent versus a straight parent to you know be any less happy, or any less dysfunctional or. Have a self-esteem issue what's. Most, critical, and vital for any child, regardless, of, who the parent is is is. That child loved cared, raised, in a safe environment and, and, and and and and being treated with with everything, that a child needs to be healthy. Within. Their life so. It seems to me then that children. Who are raised in same-sex. Relationships. Have. Some, challenges, though because I would think for example if I were raised by two women, yes, when father's day comes along. That's. Got to be a difficult, day for me as a child wouldn't it well, you know what I mean if, my, father was an anonymous, donor yes, at. What point and in what way do, I find out as a child yes. How. I came to being well, not the same thing but as what a child would would.
Go Through if there's a mom and dad in the house many of. The phenomenon, that shape as a society, are socially, constructed and, this, is what the vital point is and if, we if we have, a true society, that's that's prem astonish, you. Know things of education, and knowledge awareness and, and, and then then we could get away from some of the stigmatization. That comes from, the kind. Of victim-blaming. Social. Beliefs. That we have across our our society, and that's what's important, because what. Happens, is we do maybe have children, who feel, left out or but. It's not because they're any different or, but, it's because of what society teaches, so it's very very important, for us to give messages, of love acceptance. And. To. Our children and many, people talk about tolerance, I'm a proponent of acceptance, at versus, tolerance, and and and that and that's and that's something to be equally, applied to, let's say the children of same-sex parents. As to, newcomers to counter there's absolutely no difference and I always saying one of those we have to focus on there are lots of kids who don't have fathers and father's. Day is difficult, for them for other reasons absolutely. And when we look at lone parent families they don't have fathers and mothers, or. More mothers in some cases so, so we have to be very very cautious how, we're applying. Labels and how, we're, feeling, our children uh in, terms of making them feel isolated or, or or marginalized. We need the. Mandate, is broader than just saying, is the same-sex parent or straight parent it's really about is it a loved cared, for child in a safe environment do, you know if there are any studies, that deal with the, these. Grown-up kids who. Have, no identifiable. Father because, their father was was, an anonymous, donor is. There any research, that shows how, they cope with that because, it's natural, human curiosity. To want to know who. Your parents were right, i mean children that were adopted, very. Often look, for their, birth parents, yeah i mean i've done i do a lot of work in fatherlessness, especially. With marginalized, young men who getting involved in gang activity and, and, but, what and there's definitely a need, for, let's say having, positive role, models, but, that's, the key positive. Role models, it's not whether it's a male or a female role, model it's whether it's a positive, one, and if the experience, for the child is loving. Caring and functional, because, you, know it just to say it's about fatherlessness, are not knowing who the parent is that, could be counterintuitive because, what, if it's a dysfunctional, parent, or what if it's a violent or abusive parent. That would be worth it but isn't, it true that a young boy needs, a male, role model. In their life may not be a parent, could, be a grandparent, or an uncle and that, a young girl would.
Need A female. Role model in her life and that and but what the evidence shows is, the role model, need not be a parent. The, role, model, may. Only need to be a functional. Healthy person in my life as. A gang, involved young person the person who was, one of two men who was absolutely, critical in my life in shaping. Me to be the person who I was, was, a gay atheist, teacher, ally. Atheist. Teacher yes, right, and along. With a Christian. Youth, Work male youth worker and I was hoping it would be a judge well. I did have a good experience with a judge later in life but. I know but but but but my point, is it wasn't about whether, the person had a faith orientation. Or whether they didn't believe. In. Or even whether they were family, or, even whether they were family they were both male they both came from different, spectrums. But, they both showed, me concern. Genuine. Genuineness, and authenticity and, obviously, cared about you a lot thank, you very much for being on the show dr. Hutchinson, thank you when we come back we will go in chambers, with lawyer Kelly, Jordan stay, with us. You. Welcome. Back we were in chambers, with my next guest Kelly Jordan who is a lawyer and also. In a 20-year same-sex, relationship. Welcome, to the show Kelly thank you for having me I understand, you have twins I do how old are they they're nine well. I appreciate, you. Taking time away from them to be on the show with us today tell. Me I've been dying to ask this how realistic. Is that movie you know the movie The Kids Are Alright with. Julianne, Moore and Annette Bening how, realistic, is, that a depiction, of a female same-sex, couple well, I mean I think parts, that are realistic I, mean they they're, struggling with stress work, juggling. Children, that's, that's, the same as any family, but, the affair the running off with the sperm donor not, so realistic, I don't know any female, couples, that have run, off with, any men even if they're not Mark. Ruffalo, no no it didn't seem realistic to me either and it kind of bothered me that people out there might be watching that and thinking, that that's actually an option right when. It's. Not yeah. I mean I'm a divorce lawyer and, I can tell you that that that kind of scenario is not something that's crossed through my boardroom and if it was existing, I think you'd know about it tell. Me if a, child. Has been conceived. Through an anonymous donor. What's. The best way to explain to children. How. They came, to be conceived in this world we. Know it's funny people always, ask that and it's not so much different, than how you explain to any children, their background, or how, they came to be the birds and the bees you. Know there are there are children that live with single, parents grandparents. Same-sex, parents. Heterosexual. Parents it, just. Really it, really depends on the child and their age and stage of development but. Usually, even, in a single-parent. Household. With. A child for, a child and a father that's absent, right, the. Erent will say something like well your. Daddy's, gone away your, daddy doesn't, live with me anymore he's. Moved on or, he died or something happened, to him in. This case there, isn't a recognizable. Father, an, identifiable. One right, so, I think, it is different well. I mean I think that what what parents, do in these situations is, talk a bit about how.
You Know the, child. Was very much wanted, and loved and plant I mean that's very important, and that you. Know we needed some assistance in, order to have a child on her own and, so we went to a doctor or we went you, know to, to a clinic, and a man helped us, have. You and we're so glad that, you're. Ours and is there an age when, it's appropriate to, make that give that kind of explanation to a child I think it depends i mean you wait for the child to question, and then, then you engage appropriately, i don't think it's something that you necessarily have to share from the beginning, and kids, just naturally, are curious about their origins, and and we'll ask about it so what happens at father's day at your house well. Usually we're at my father's house so, they spend a lot of time with their with their uncles. And and their, grandfathers, you, know I think that's an important, point you've just made because some people, say, well. If you're raised, in a household, with a same-sex, couple you're. Not getting, the. Other sex, presence. In, the child's life you know there's no father figure if it's only two women and it's, as if they don't realize there's a whole family out there well, that's right I mean there are lots of male role models for children. Everywhere whether they're with a single, mother. Or whether they're with, a lesbian, couple what. Do you think of these lawsuits that are brought by adult. Children who, were conceived, by. Artificial. Insemination, with an anonymous. Donor and they're, suing, to, find, out the identity of their biological. Fathers yeah, well. Those, are very difficult cases I mean first I'd say that not all what, we'd call donor offspring. Have the same desire, to meet there. Or biological. Father though. What. Percentage, of kids want to know we don't know there's been very little literature, out there that has studied that we, know that adopted, children are more interested, in it than perhaps donor, offspring, and finding, their biological, parents right, but, there's there's a real range I mean the difference is, is that donor, offspring. Are planned, loved, wanted. From their families, from, the beginning, and so it's a different experience than, adopted, children who might be curious about why, their biological. Parents couldn't, keep them and care for them so it is different, but. What's, tricky about these cases is they're trying to undo things that were done already these these men who had graciously. Donated. You. Know the. Condition, of anonymity, yeah. That's my point that I wonder whether these these. Adult. Children understand. That they wouldn't be here, if it, hadn't been a. Confidential. Arrangement. That, the donor had, and, believed. And. Yet I, can see from a rights perspective, that. They, might have, curiosity. Like any person would to, know who the person is and to find out if they have siblings right. Well, many of the sperm banks now actually, offered identity, disclosure, which, is something that the child could access, at the age of 18 which is what happened in that movie, exactly. Is that common, now do you think it's quite common do, you think that it's. Something, that the, donors, would. Want well. I mean the, law is uncertain, right now in most jurisdictions about. What a donor's obligations. Are certainly, add owner doesn't want to be held financially responsible, for, a child that was, a result of his donation, I can. Imagine not because, they probably have children of their own that they're raising and they haven't factored in that there's these other children, out there and, yeah, maybe they're curious too, they.
Might Be I, wonder. Also, about. An. Issue that I was often raised by people who don't know same-sex, couples, and that is are, the children of same-sex parents. Stigmatized, at school is there a risk is there a higher risk to, them of being bullied, because. They, have two moms or two dads and, you, know kids can be cruel right. Well, I mean I'm lucky because I live in a large urban, center where there are many same-sex families, in both, of my son's classes. There are other same-sex, parents, so I, countered. That it's fortunate, very fortunate, but I can imagine that in some places a. Child. Might be the only one, in the class or maybe even in the school where. The. They. They are the only one that have two same-sex, parents. How. Do you protect a child from, from. Being singled, out and, made fun of or. Embarrassed. In some way well. I mean that's why it's so important that you're talking about this issue on your show and that people, are out there and that's really why I'm here today is to make sure that people know that we're families and we're we're, just like any other family struggling. With finances, and, kids and work. And you. Know we just want our kids to be respected, and loved and that's true for everybody gay, or straight it. Is thank, you so much for being on our show thanks, for having me. Hi. I'm Lorne McLain today. On QA our question is I'm separating, what, can I do to protect myself hiring. A good family lawyer coupled, with proper, divorce planning, will reduce your costs, and help promote a successful, outcome, review. Your family, financial, records and all mail coming into your house so you know what the family assets debts. Income. And expenses. Are copy. All key documents, and store, them outside, of the home finding. Loan applications. Is often, golden, when it comes to proving real income and asset values don't. Sign any blank financial, documents, or credit, applications, and ensure. That you block any ability, for your spouse to increase, debt or credit have. Your mail sent to an address other than the matrimonial, home and, be, sure to change the passwords, on your computer, and phone don't. Panic and quit work if you're employed and most. Importantly, don't. Move out of the family residence without getting, legal advice first. Thanks. For watching for. Extended, interviews, and exclusive, content please visit, our website, at Family Matters TV, com, if, you'd like to submit your legal question, to our Q&A go. To advise scene com, I'm, justice Harvey brownstone, see you next time. You. You.