Hack Anxiety with Sound: Interview with Stefan Chmelik, Inventor of the Sensate Pebble
Regular, viewers, will know that i'm a big fan of the sensate, pebble. A revolutionary. New device that uses, sound and vibration. To reduce, anxiety. In only 10 minutes a day. Now recently, i was lucky to be able to interview, stephan schmelik. Founder, of bioself, technology. And inventor, of the pebble, and get a real insight, into how the millennia, old use of sound for well-being. Has been miniaturized. And made available, just at the time, when anxiety. Seems to be at an all-time, high. In the interview, we discussed the genesis, of the sense8, pebble. The intent, behind the use of sound and vibration, to improve well-being. As well as feedback, from current users, on how the device has benefited, them. We also explore, other devices, and technologies. Such as heart math. Biofeedback. And neurofeedback. Additionally. We talk about their current production, status. When the device, will be in stock, rather than on pre-order. And what's in the product roadmap, for sense8, in 2021. And beyond. Now stefan schmelik, is a lifelong, meditator. A renowned, integrated. Healthcare, physician. And also a well-being, technology, visionary. As founder, of new medicine, group in london's, famous, harley street, he created, a world-class, team. With over 300, years of combined, clinical, excellence. And through his work there. With. Thousands, of patients. He identified. Both the need. And the solution. To the problem, of modern life stress, which led to the formation. Of bioself. Technology. In 2015. And, if you're looking to buy a sense8, pebble then please, check out the special, indiegogo. Discount, link. That you will find in the description. So, on to the interview, sit back, and enjoy, 45, minutes. Of. Interesting. Chat on anxiety, and more, with stefan chamelec. Stefan, welcome thank you for taking the time to come and talk about. Your, device, sensate. And uh, it's great to have you. Matt thank you so much you're incredibly welcome. That's great stuff so let's uh start i'd love to know a bit of the story, behind. Uh, your background. And how you got to the point where you've. You're releasing this device, out for people to buy. Yeah i mean it's i mean it really is a lifelong, journey, actually. Um, and, the company. Uh by itself technology, that i'm now completely, involved, in uh, and. The hindsight's, a terrible thing isn't it i can see that much of my. Life. And career has effectively, been leading, to this point. I mean going right back. Um. Uh you know dad taught me and my brother to meditate when we were very young, under five, um so i really am a lifelong, meditator, and that's. Very much informed. Um, not only my personal, development, but uh my, clinical, work uh and my entrepreneurial. Work over over several decades. So for the last 30 years, i have been. Fully immersed, in clinical activity with patients, at new medicine group in harley street london. Where we were the uk's, main integrated, healthcare team. And we were particularly, interested, in. Exploring ways to try and help people with, um chronic, hard diagnose, or how to treat problems. Problems which uh in a mainstream, biomedical, medicine. Didn't always have a lot of answers for, um. And. What's, uh interesting but tragic, as well is that in many ways these make up, the majority.
Of, The, chronic health issues that people. Suffer from today. And so there seemed to be this huge gap really, and identifying. These kind of autoimmune. These inflammatory. These. Stress-mediated. Responses, so i i became particularly, obsessed and fascinated, about this given my background, as well. And, really looked deeply, into how we could try and train people, um. To, learn, classical, breathing. Classical, meditation, techniques. To enable stress resilience, to enable people to overcome things like stress anxiety, chronic pain insomnia. Etc. And that was great, and i've used those tools with thousands, of people so, people over the years, but. What, really and the turning point really was um. 10, 10 12 years ago when i really started to notice. That. People's, ability, to. Follow, classical. Meditation, and breathing techniques was really declining, quite rapidly. Um, to the point where i now you know really say unapologetically. That my experiences. That most, people. Can't. Effectively. Meditate. You know from a neurological, point of view people can, sit uh still, and to some degree and they can go through the motions, of meditating, but actually their body and their minds and their. Their neural, system. Isn't in what one could describe. As a meditation-like. State. Um so they're not really getting, the, neural. Benefits, that we know, and the acres of research, tell us. Is. Force coming, from regular meditators. Um. So for me then the the, the decision, was okay well do i change, what i'm teaching people because, i'm not really being of much benefit, to them. I'm kind of wasting. My time and their money because i'm teaching them techniques that they don't actually seem to be able to do or follow through with. And my other major interest is technology. Um i've always been fascinated, by the use of technology. For the veterans, of, mankind. So i started to look at technology, that could assist, that process. And for years we used a large piece of clinical equipment a big sort of kind of zen. Zero gravity, chair. With. A. Huge transducers. Built into it and we got fantastic, results from that. But um i came to a point where i realized, that, the. Impact. Uh of this you know very clinical technology. In an upmarket. Harley street setting with a relatively, small number of patients. Really wasn't, where i wanted my, uh the knowledge i'd accumulated, to kind of go so i started really to look at global impact. And realize that the only way to achieve that was to miniaturize, the tech to go digital. To include it with an app, and to sell it to in the consumer market not in the medical market. Where it would be again, pretty limited, but in the, consumer market where people. Who self-assess, and self-diagnose. With. These stress-related, conditions, could pick it up and and, and receive it immediately.
Yeah No fantastic, so. That's really interesting. At what point was it, you. Started to think about the use of. The vibrations. Accessing, sort of the vagus nerve stimulation, response. As the as the answer. To, uh, for that. Question. I mean over a 10-year period really so, the pattern that we filed for the sunset, device was back was is from 2015. But as i say, i've been experimenting. With the use of, sound. And particularly, low frequency, sound for a number of years. Um, in the clinic, and with a much larger, device. The kind of eureka moment really was when i was sitting on, the tech and i realized that we could miniature, and turn the body into the hardware. Uh thus, getting rid of most of the you know 99. Of the hardware so by using. By turning the transducer, from the back to the front. Uh and, and, using bone conduction. Uh, therefore effectively. Turning, the thoracic, cavity, the chest. Into a resonating. Cell we could get rid of you know virtually all the hardware. And have the same kind of clinical, outcome so that was the kind of eureka moment, um and that that was, the, uh the step that enabled, us to find a way to make this a scalable, device that could be obviously shipped around the world. I think there's something really really. Primal. About making our chests vibrate. Yeah, definitely. I think we all know this instinctively. Um, and you know, human beings, have been. Drumming, or being at the moon, or. Homing, and chanting and singing, and prayer. And, using yogurt, techniques, and breathing techniques for thousands of years. We know that we feel good at the end of it and i think now the science in a way is catching, up with. What is the, mechanism. Behind, that i mean there are studies around there's many studies of course around. Uh breathing, and the effects of breathing. Uh but also about arming and chanting, as there's actually quite a lot of information, about the power of. Of music, um. Uh, and low frequency, music in particular, some of the, kind of sacred, music guys like bach and monteverdi. Wrote quite like uh low frequency. Non-audible. Content, into their into their music, especially the stuff that was designed, to be played. Through a church organ. So there's kind of this this kind of sense of awe and wonder. Um that's written in if you like to a lot of sacred music. Comes, a lot of that comes, from. The non-audible. Low frequency, experience. Yeah that's really interesting and that's my uh. That's my experience. From. Various things i've practiced such as qigong, and the sacred, sounds which was my first real exposure, to that, and i guess in. In using. The sense8. Uh it really took me by surprise, actually, that there were certain, there were certain, frequencies. That. Elicited, a response, i wasn't expecting. Yeah. Yeah it's so interesting isn't it and this is the thing it's it's beyond, words, really, um i mean we've had. Uh, a, vagus nerve for several hundred million years as, as um, uh. Mammals, and primates, you know right back to, before we were mammals, uh we've had a vagus nerve. Um we've only had a human brain for a much much shorter period of time, um. So, this. This, this lower brain, lizard brain if you like uh reptilian. Uh brain stem, response, yeah so which you know, the the gut brain connection, that we know about, you know that is that mediates. All the organs, i mean that is, essentially, a description, of the vagus nerve this, this gut this gut brain superhighway. Is the vagus nerve in many ways. So it's the it's these, um. Non-conscious. Signals, from the lower brain. Which. Uh mediate the autonomic, nervous system yeah so. We don't have to think about heartbeats, we don't have to think about gut peristalsis. Blood vessel dilation, all these things they happen. Automatically. And that's for good and for bad, yeah so when people get startled, or traumatized. Or done. The, uh the lizard brain is. Over, activated, it becomes hypervigilant. Then it can, ramp up those responses. Um. In the belief. That it's in some way protecting, us from, a danger that isn't, in fact, actually, there, and this is this and this essentially, is the basis, of a lot of the, uh certainly the panic and anxiety, symptoms we see but just so also the pro-inflammatory. Symptoms. Uh which are observed, in clinic you know because your, adrenaline, is a very pro-inflammatory. Substance so if it's being released on a regular basis.
Um Then that's not good for long-term, human health. Yeah no, that's really interesting, so, you've had the, very incarnations. Of the device, out for. A couple of years. Through the. So the original beta testing, goes right back to, 2016. We had a first device out which sold out very quickly, in, 2018. Um and then the, the, the. The version before the one that's now available. Um, uh sold out uh the early part of this year and, the one that's being shipped now is the new version yeah so we've had about four versions. Yeah no that's, fantastic, and you're constantly, looking at how you can improve it i'm interested what's some of the. Case studies or feedback, that you've had that are really, uh exciting. You in terms of what it is you set out to achieve. Yeah and with this and we're driven. And uh almost entirely, by our user feedback. Um as i say we, it was a very conscious. Choice. To not go down the medical device route. Um, we didn't want to get. Logged. Locked into. Years of study millions of pounds worth of research. Um. Prior, to making the benefits, of the device available, to, um people that need it. Um. So we we've i've you know i very, carefully, verified. Um, to myself, and to the team within the clinic, that we were getting. Uh. Very significant. Reproducible. And consistent, results. On, relatively, small numbers, you know around about 100 people. Um so we would use the technology. And then we would test, a number of things heart rate variability. Respiratory, cathology. Subjective, well-being. And we were seeing. Uh in virtually, all cases, you know really really significant, shifts. That you wouldn't expect to see with almost any other intervention. And that's carried through um into. The, uh the wild, as, um you know consumers, have been buying it people have been buying it they've been using it, and just the level of spontaneous. Um, feedback, we get is kind of what keeps the team going day to day really and it puts a smile on our faces and really drives us forward it's hard and it's hard running a startup, right, yeah yeah, and it's been pretty hard in the last. Few months obviously. As well although of course. Our product, is, um. It could almost be designed, for what's been, going on over the last year of course conditions, under which everyone has to work has been, very trying. So so. Our user response, um, is absolutely. Um, you know, our. Our sucker and the thing that keeps us going we we. There's a number of things which um. Uh. There's a number of things which people, commonly, report, as benefits. Sleep being one of the main benefits, that people consistently, say is improved. Um, a panic attack anxiety. Mood. But a. Strange and interesting, list of symptoms, as well which people report, have improved which we haven't tested so we can't really verify but i mean everything from. Hay fever, to. Some neurological. Conditions, like parkinson's. Etc. When we're not um you know we're not in the position of claiming.
We're Not we don't claim to treat any conditions, yeah so. We're a non-medical, device. Um, we, uh, claim, to be able to help people relax. And improve stress resiliency. By. Giving them a meditation-like. Experience, which would otherwise be hard for them, to, achieve, using. Uh normal. Um self-discipline. Yeah. And there's plenty of evidence that that has a knock-on effect, but yeah we we. We love our users and we get. A very, high level. Of consistent, feedback from them. Yeah no that's fantastic, i mean my experience. I have uh asthma, though for the most part it's, in control, other than, certain periods of the year where i don't know what they put, what the trees are doing or what the chemicals, they put on the fields. And and it was during the first of those kind of in may i tend to suffer more than usual. That i was using. The pebble. And i noticed. The impact it was having on my breathing. You know i to the point where. I didn't need to use my inhaler. You know, that that i would normally do during this period where i get a bit wheezy. Like, and i guess because i've had this my whole life i'm very sensitive. To what's going on with my breathing. That i would notice, that i could just feel, my chest relaxing. You know, tightly my breathing was improving. Um, which of course you know the very i know the vagus, nerve, the vagus nerve innovates, through, lots and lots of organs, so it didn't initially, it totally surprised, me. But the impact of it was quite, significant. Um. And i was really interested, to think oh okay, so you know it's. Um. It's got you to think about what it is that's driving, those reactions. Why i need, an inhaler, occasionally, anyway and that ability, just for. 20 minutes 20 minutes, to, calm the breathing down and, not need an inhaler, is fantastic. I mean it makes complete sense, um, you know theoretically. Although as we haven't tested. Uh um, sensate's. Uh benefits, or outcomes, on, allergic, or mediated. Problems. But it does make complete sense. Um, you know given that the vagus nerve and the autoimmune. System. Autonomic, nervous system and therefore the autoimmune, system, are, control you know largely. Um. Given that the autonomic, nervous system is largely. Affected, adversely. By, um, stress and and pro-inflammatory. Hormones. Uh it's not surprising. That if somebody stress resilience. Increases. And improves. That. Allergy type symptoms might also improve, so we've had anecdotal, reports, of hay fever. Skin. Such as sex, itchy skin conditions such as eczema. Etc, improving. And. Although we're not a medical device, we, will be applying, for. Fda status. Next year we. Expect to receive that, and we are scientists, and researchers, at heart, so we know we have a whole program. Of, scientific, research, and user research which will be, commencing from next year. That's fantastic, and i i love that idea. Of. Providing, something to help people that don't have the. The ability, to don't have the skills and self-regulation. You know. Which as you say you're seeing more and more i mean i do a lot of work with clients. Who are coming to me burnt out, high levels of stress. And my observation. Is. Actually, just, getting things moving. You know the various devices, i use such as heart math and various other techniques, getting them. To develop, some small skills, that you can start, to build on, is actually the big challenge, and, and i was talking to um. To a. A, program, that was in america that was looking around, drug addiction. And the idea of using vagus nerve stimulation. Just to kick start to get them out of that, stuck state. To give them the, space, in their nervous system to start to learn some self-regulation. Skills was improving, the. Uh, the capacity. Or the success, rate of the program. I would absolutely expect that to be the case. And just to clarify, when, we we we're not vegas no stimulation. Uh although we, um, have a impact, on the vagus nerve and we believe the entire. Autonomic, nervous system. We. Have taken quite a different approach, to most, um, other tech which is targeted, at the vagus nerve. So, um all existing tech whether it's medical or non-medical. Is using electrical, stimulation. Yeah. And. To to one degree or another directly. Either sitting on or clamping on or being next to the vagus nerve in some shape or form and electrically. Stimulating. That so kind of like tens machine technology, essentially.
Which People have been using for for a long long time now but targeting. One specific, nerve branch. Um, we're using sound, yeah so, the entire. Sensate. Ecosystem. Is sound, based. Uh either, the. Headphone, content which of course is oral, um but very cleverly designed. But which is orchestrated. And synchronized. With the non-audible. Portion. Of the um. The tracks, the sessions, which are perceived, by bone conduction, on the chest, so it's the synchronization. Of these two audible and non-audible. Sounds that creates the experience. Um and as far as we can see and we haven't had any reports, and this doesn't seem to be any, uh literature. To suggest. Otherwise. There doesn't really seem to be the capacity, to over, stimulate. The the vagus nerve using sound. There definitely, is um, uh the, you know you can over stimulate the vagus nerve using electrical, electrical system, yeah electrical. Stimulation. And there you know there are potential side effects to that, we we have we haven't come across and can't see a basis for there being any adverse, effects. Um using sound. Yeah. Really interesting. So. So in terms of uh application, for the device what, do you recommend. How often the people should use it how long they should use it for. So yes so the use case, um, that sense8 is designed for is 10 minutes once a day. Um so when i was designing. The tech. I originally thought we'd have to use a 20 minute session. And what was essential, was that it achieved, three things, during. A, first session which is that it felt pleasurable, immediately. So the person, conducted, you know finished the session. Um, that. At the end of the session upon standing up that they would be able to feel the difference. And. That at the end of a first session, it would show. Uh subjective. Uh and objective, change, to specific, biomarkers. And we achieve that in in nearly all cases. But. In fact we've found that that happens, within a 10-minute, session. So although there are 10, 20 and 30 minute tracks. Um that come with the device, on the app and we're um. Writing, and composing, and we'll be releasing new tracks all the time. We only ask people to do 10 minutes once a day. It is passive. So we ask people to, basically. You know close their eyes lie back put their headphones, on hit go. And just to enjoy themselves for 10 minutes. Um so you know we don't ask people to do it well you know, down the gym or, on the phone or whatever, although having said that you know i'm wearing it now as the inventor, i feel i can kind of, break the use case. Yeah. Um. And so all our results, and outcomes are really based on that 10 minutes 10 minutes once a day. Lots of people do more than that. Um, you know the team will have it on the whole time pretty much you know lots of people tell us oh yeah, i use it four five six times, a day can i use it too much. Is quite a common question. Uh, in fact the the answer to which appears to be no. Um you know i mean i've you know, we've really tried to use it too much, um, and not found that we can. Um so um so yeah ten minutes once a day is the use case but many people enjoy it so much and find the benefits, are sufficient, that they use it significantly. More than that. Yeah. My own use case. Uh i use it, i often use it before, before bed, and i find it you know particularly if you've been really busy that day. It works that way but i also use it in a couple other ways, one if i'm. I need to sit and focus. I find, just, you know whether it's the soundscape, i don't know but it helps, helps me focus when i'm doing creative work or trying to get something done. Yep and i've also experimented, it when using, uh, heart mass. When using the heart mass by a feedback. Because my one of my weaknesses, i've been using that for, many many years. Is, my mind still wanders. You know and i find, that that kind of the heart focus that comes with the butt with the heart mass practice.
Having The sensate, on. Is a very, gentle way of reminding of pulling me back to where i need to focus for that, and that's a pretty profound, experience, using the two i found has been really. Uh, really fantastic. Yeah we used the heart man i love heart math um, bruce, cryer their ex-ceo. You know one of our advisors. Um. Uh we we used heart math as our testing. Device. Uh in the first kind of clinical work we did and, you know to verify that we were getting. The kind of shifts that we. Were hoping that we would and and it very much verified, that that was the case we're using. Uh and the next clinical trials we're doing, uh is uses, uh. More complicated. Heart rate variability, technology. But heart math is fantastic. And, um you know buy feedback works incredibly well buy feedback and error of feedback work incredibly, well if you do them. And this is this is the thing meditation. Works incredibly, well. If you do it and you do it. Yeah. The. The sad fact is that a lot of people are downloading, meditation, apps and they're kind of forcing themselves, to kind of sit through a session. A 5-10, minute 15-minute, session whatever. Um, because they know they, should. Um but i the the how much actual. Neurological. Um, benefit. Neural networks. Should we say building benefit they're getting from that um, that time is is i think highly debatable. So that's, again we've taken a very different approach so whereas. A lot of tech, um, is essentially. Um. Monitoring, and data recording. Um, and, i love all of it you know i'm very grateful to fitbit for, having. Made people aware that they can wear something on their wrist you know mass market aware of that i'm very grateful to apple. For having, increased the quality of the technology, etc. Most of the technology, essentially, is, measuring. Stuff. And then it measures and then it's and then it finds that something maybe isn't optimal and then it nags you to change it. And you know we all know we all know what happens to nagging right. It doesn't, it doesn't do anything. So we took very much the um the other end of the spectrum. So we say okay let's make you feel better. Noticeably. And then you can look at the data and see how much buy. So ours is a very very uh, it's passive, in as much as we don't ask you to do anything we don't ask you to follow anything. Um all we ask you to do is close your eyes and enjoy yourself for 10 minutes. But the outcomes. Are very active. Yeah and we do and at the end of a session we don't say okay great, now now go and breathe, now go and breathe properly for 10 minutes. Yeah, because you've already done that. Yeah no that's. It's really interesting, i i think um. I think there's. There's really something, there, about. Almost using the technology, to rebel against, everybody being obsessed, with too much, too much information. And yeah feeling bad because they didn't get their steps in well sometimes you can't get your steps in don't.
Not The end of the old end all of everything. I mean we're aware of the irony, of using. Technology. To combat, the problem of too much technology. Um but listen nobody's, going to throw their phone away. Yeah i mean. In a pandora's, box is open. You can't uninvent. Anything. Um you know. Technology, is just too useful. We're we're not really trying to appeal. To the people who. Do actually have the willpower. And the ability, to meditate for a few hours a day and go and live maybe off-grid. And. You know really limit their, uh technology, exposure. Now these people, will get the results. Um irrespective. Because they have. They're just built that way. Um, our, our interest as a company. Is in finding, ways, for, the average, person, normal people. At a global, level hundreds, of millions of people to be able to build, stress resiliency. And and for a very simple reason that, um, you know there's, uh many. Major, global problems that the world's facing, any one of which could obviously lead to the demise, of the human race. And, i think unless. A, tipping point of human beings starts to make better quality, decisions, that are based. On, heart, rather than fear. Then. The. The powers that be the corporations. The political, parties. Will not make the. Decisions, that are necessary, to, stave, off those issues. And i think i think there is a tipping point coming, genuinely. I think we are seeing. Um, a, a. A mass of people. Who. Want, the world, to be different they want their politicians, to be making different decisions. And i think um, the the events of this year. Uh, the pandemic, obviously, have really. Focused, that. Yeah many things have happened. In the last few months which people have told me for years would be impossible. Yeah i mean i've been saying we need to stop flying we need to stop, consuming. Unconsciously. In the way that we are we need to. Um. Learn, our, come and come to terms with our own fears and our own, uh inadequacies. And everyone said this is impossible, of course, it more or less happened overnight that that's exactly what, has been necessary, for people. So let's just hope that we can you know we can learn the lesson from that and use the. Uh the impetus which has caused so many people tremendous, pain for positive, change. Yeah, absolutely. I think that. Making the most of that. Enforced. Pause. To uh and to refu, to stop, reflect. And and say, actually what's important. Rather than, everybody, 99. People being on rails, doing what they do because that's what they do. And never having the opportunity, to question it. Exactly, and i think this is an opportunity the enforce pause i like that, yeah and enforce pause and this is an opportunity to question isn't it, many things that we thought were impossible. Like the commute. Um, or working in a different way or consuming, less or flying less and we've discovered. Many of these things are possible. We of course. Shouldn't. And we're not for a moment. Um. Diminishing. The. Trauma, and anguish. And pain that's been experienced, by, an untold number of people. And. You know my biggest concern in many ways, is the, impact, of this, on a generation, of people going forward. I think there was already a massive mental health problem. Uh that was being kind of help kind of hidden. Held at bay if you like and i think there's a tsunami, of mental health. Issues that are going to be arising, and and showing themselves, over the next few years and i think we have to be prepared for that. Yeah, yeah, i totally agree. And talking about that next. Next generation. How have you seen or have you looked done any work in terms of. Sensate. With uh with children. Oh it's such an interesting question a lot lots of people write to us and they say. Um i've been using it with my children, we, we know we we haven't tested it so we don't we say we say dana don't use your kids but um, of course people you know take it home buy one take it over, they use it on their children. Um, and they've reported, you know fantastic, results, from uh because there was there was a tremendous.
And It's heartbreaking, there's a tremendous, level of anxiety. In children growing up now, uh, huge i mean in children under 10 there's a lot of anxiety, a lot of insomnia. In older children, teens, there's, there's um. Again, an absolute pandemic. Of depression, anxiety. Poor, self-worth. And. Associated. Issues. But we've had parent support to us they've used it with their children with learning difficulties. And, they've been much calmer, that they sleep better, i mean it's on very much on our roadmap. Um, sense8 is the product of course which we're. Um. Sensory is the product which we're shipping at the moment obviously but we have a whole roadmap, of uh other hardware and software products that fit. Uh the same idea, the same need, uh provide solutions, to the same problem. Including a very sleep focused one but also including, a. Sense8 for kids. We think it's a really important, market. Um, there is, children have never been. So overwhelmed. Or anxious, or put upon or uncertain. Uh and, you know and as a parent myself. I i. Know, how hard it is to deal with that and that, again, during lockdown, that's been incredibly, difficult with uh, people, people working from home and at home schooling. The the pressure has been. Tremendous. For so many people, so yeah so we're really looking forward to, next year hopefully being able to put a children's, based. Sensate, product uh make that available to people. That's fantastic. Heart massive, recently, released, a. Child focus, program. I don't generally work with children, but i've worked with a few friends children, since. Since lockdown. And using the devices, and just teaching them some of those. You know some of those self-regulation. Skills, that. Seem to have got lost over the generations. You know that just ability to pause and say hang on a sec. And control, how you're feeling. Rather than just react to everything. Exactly. And, um. Again another, and something that has happened to some extent. Over the last few months is that people have been spending. If they're fortunate enough to be in a place where they can. Uh spending more time in nature. And i think we really, can't. Um. Overestimate. The. Importance, of that for human beings you know we need a certain. Amount, of silence, and stillness, every day. As much as we need food. We need a certain amount of contact, with nature.
Every Day. To be able to. Function and survive, and to thrive. And i know you know and it's great you know i see a lot of people, uh out walking, now who you know on a daily basis all, are we're very fortunate where we live we're surrounded by rivers and forests, and hills. And there's a lot of people out there you know with their kids, and it's wonderful, and you know that that is the only. Viable, antidote. For, screen time. But kids. Yeah absolutely, get out there get some fresh air, get a bit dirty. And uh. Yeah. I mean that's one of the the real pluses. For me personally. Uh through this period, is just. Being able to finish work, and say. Oh the sun's shining let's go out let's go out for a walk let's just let's just get out and. Get the os map out and. Go for it and yeah. And i think i know a lot of people who've kind of rediscovered. That, which have got lost in the busyness. Of. Of life and if we could keep that. When things start to go back to whatever the new normal is. Uh i think we'd be we'd be a. Better, civilization. For sure. Absolutely, and i'm very much hope i'm, hopeful, that that is what will happen a version of that, as i say you can't uninvent. Anything. And, you can't, forget, an experience, you've had. And in many ways that's the problem with meditation, like, um or deeper like relaxation. Like activities. Most people have just never experienced. The flow state the deep calm. That can be achieved for a lot of you know tremendous, amount of hard work. And then occasionally, you'll get those moments, where it all just clicks, and, the universe is you know everything's just right in the universe. But you know once you've had that. Then, there's no there's no words, that can explain, to you. What that feels. Like. Yeah it's like a it's like a frog trying to tell, a fish, what dry dry means, yeah this, does not within the, um the lexicon, of experience. So. Part of what we hope to do with sensate, is to give people insights. Into some of these experiences, because once they've had them. Then it's, oh right. Okay. That's what i'm trying to do. And i'm hoping that. A lot of people will have had some kind of insights. During, insights not necessarily, into flow states or into. Deep relaxation, states but into, ways in which their life could be that's different to how it was. And the on mass, people. Value that enough to not want to just revert, to the. Previous, what we called normal that was anything but normal. Hmm. Yeah. No, sounds, sounds sounds great sounds fantastic, and i think it's definitely. Has that. Impact and feedback, i've. I've had on the device. Uh going back to some some techy stuff because you know i'm a really, techie geek. Uh so i'm really interested, in terms of as i said uh earlier, on you know the different. There's different vibration, patterns, that. Elicit a different response, in me. Tell me a bit more about you know how, how those. Came up come about. Um, you know the design, and the intent, behind the different frequencies. And how you, connect that with the. Uh the audio portion, too. Yes, it's a really really important and fascinating, question, which we are, still writing, the book on literally. A big part of the research that we're doing and planning. Going forward is about. Um. Why we've written the tracks. The way that we have. And why we're using, the specific, frequencies, that we are. A fairly common question from people is you know what frequency, is sensate. Or what frequency, do i need to use for this, and because there is technology, out there that will play specific, frequencies.
That Are related, to particular, cells. And particular, diseases, etc. We very much aren't working that way, so sensor, is a, um a multi-frequency. Device. That can play. With with the headphones can play anywhere from, uh about 0.1. Hertz up to 20 000 hertz. So it is. An all, entire entire human, and beyond, human hearing spectrum, actually. Uh but. And there's two processes, going on at the same time there's the compressed, air. Auditory, portion, yeah which is how we hear sound you know air air is compressed, and it's pushed into the eardrum. But then there's a whole. Neurological, mechanism, around perception, of touch. Which is very different from kind of haptic feedback like you would get on a phone, but the the the, sense of vibration. Uh and i think why this is important, is because. That was almost, certainly. Our first ever sense. Yeah before we had eyes and ears. And noses. Um you know we would have been. Um rolling around in the bottom of the ocean. Sensing, our world. By vibration. So nothing. Is more hardwired. Into our system than the sense of vibration. And a, baby, developing. In utero. Also experiences. Most of its world, by vibration, by bone conduction, and fluid conduction, through the mother. So these are really incredibly, hard-wired hardwired. Hardwired, sensors. We use. The tracks themselves the sessions. Are multi-multi-frequency. They're led. Resonance. Um, we've developed what we call the uh sensate. Infrasound. Resonance, technology, so it's a it's a way in which, we. Um. Conduct, the, the the, low frequencies. Into the body through bone conduction. It's a very different, experience. To in a hearing, sound. Um, and i mean i i, i work on the tracks with, um, uh. With composers. And, a lot of it is is uh. Inspirational. Based so we feel it we try it we have we know we know specific frequencies, and combinations, of frequencies, and harmonics, and resonances.
Which Have a down regulatory. Effect. On the on the nervous system. Uh and then other frequencies, and combinations, which have more of an up regulatory, effect. Um so we play with these. But um, we're still to do some of the um the essential, research, around. The precise, frequencies, and what you know to, do like. Magnetic, resonance, imaging or to do. Heart rate variability, measuring, while. Going very methodically. Through a range of frequencies, so we can say precisely. This frequency, is doing that. Now. In reality, we probably won't find that's the case, because. You know having worked as a, holistic, physician, for many decades, you know what, what we in fact find is that human beings are very very complex. And. In fact everything. Is multifactoral. Which is why um double blind research, is so difficult with anything that has a holistic, orientation, because. Um when you try to remove, all the variables, except for one which of course in reality, you can never do but when you try to do that you'll miss your, you're, um throwing away the baby with the bath water in many cases. So it'll be the case with um the sensate, experience as well that it isn't a frequency, that's doing something it's the combination, of frequencies, it's the combination, of the, uh the oral. Um, uh ear based. Set. Content, along with the. Felt. Um bone conduction, content, and the way that they're constructed, together. Really. That's really interesting, so. There's no. Sort of research, for that and that it sounds like that's going to keep you uh. Keep you and, interested, and, geeked out as you delve into it further and further for some time, oh we yeah we have many years. I'm i'm happy to say of research ahead of us um, i mean we're we're not you know we're pushing the curve here right nobody has used, sound. In the way that we're using it really before. So people are very familiar with in with ultrasound, right, uh we know that ultrasound, obviously can be used for imaging it can be used um, for medical procedures. Uh people are much less familiar with infrasound, you know the other end of the spectrum. Um. Uh and in fact mostly, it's it's it's it's only really um it's only really been researched, in terms of. The negative, impact you know people like people using power drivers etc, having. Low frequency, vibrations, going through them for hours at a time and the issues that can cause. Uh what what we're, doing is quite different to that. Um. And. As i said we we don't really, we don't really stimulate, the vagus nerve we like to think that we increase, um, vagal nerve tone. And, that's, um a very homostatic. Mechanism, yeah so by increasing the tone of the, vagus nerve, you increase its ability, to respond. To whatever, is going on. So we focus the content at the moment is mostly first focused on increasing, the, vagus nerve's ability to down regulate. Because what we see. Is that most people are over stimulated, most people are anxious. Yeah they're in hyper-vigilant. States they're hard to sleep. Hard to relax. But there's also the use case of. And i think you mentioned this yourself when you're trying to be more creative. So creators so in memory cognition, improvement, memory, improvement. Um creativity. You know getting over writer's block if you like this is more of a kind of up regulatory. High um. Different brain, functions to down regulation. And the good thing about increasing vaguely low tone is that you do effectively, work on both. Yeah. Yeah, oh really, really interesting, so. In terms of the the life cycle for the products you've been, uh. Amassed a whole bunch of pre-orders, for the uh on the latest, indiegogo, campaign, how are you getting on with that given, all the challenges. Over the last few months. Yeah so we went, live on indiegogo. A little while ago, we're, at, uh over a thousand, percent, over funded, on that so it's done very very well, those orders are literally shipping now um so the first ones went out this week.
Um We're shipping those over the next few weeks so so so orders are live, on indiegogo. Um if people just go to indiegogo, and then search, sensei, they'll, find us um we're taking orders live they're shipping now so anyone that places, an order now will get it probably in october. So if you know not not long really, and then we'll be selling from stock, um, so that's you know that's what we've been working, we keep we've keep um, the interest has been so high over the last. 12 12 24 months that we've never managed to catch up with our pre-orders. So. Um. Hopefully, october, this year we'll actually have caught up so that we can sell you know if somebody orders and they'll get it a couple of days later. Yeah that's fantastic. Sounds like an ideal christmas present for a lot of people. Yeah absolutely. Um, and, um. They're they're that we we also maybe um. Uh the next the next hardware, product as well is in development, now so that'll be that'll be launched next year as well. Uh yeah that's fantastic. So um. Yeah, that's great i think uh i think we've got a really good understanding. Of where it's coming from and the product to say i've been using it for. Like i must be about six months now, and um. I think it's a really. Really timely, product really effective, products can help a lot of people. And if it can help people get out about, those stuck states and start to recognize, that maybe there's a better way. Then, that's uh. It couldn't be more timely really. So yeah it seems to work really well for you. Yeah i mean we've actually been accused. Of rushing. Sensate, out to capitalize. On the you know the stressed and the anxious. Um and i have to point out to people that actually we've been doing this since 2015. And a lot of time and money and energy has gone into, developing, of it and a lot of careful testing, but um. I mean i think i think, in one shape or form the crisis, that we've seen happening was, was in a long time coming. Um, and in a sense all it's done is to kind of rip off the. The the sticking plasters that have been holding. A lot of, very, shaky, structures, together, which is very painful. But actually means that we can now identify, and address these issues effectively, i hope. No. Yeah, absolutely. And for those who haven't, got a device or they're waiting for their pre-order. Uh in the current climate. Given all your expertise, in other areas what would you what do you recommend, they do while they're waiting, for your. For you to catch up with their order. And what i always say is. Even. If in doubt, breathe out. And i suppose if there's one. Thing, that we've observed. In clinic, overall. Is that uh. Breathing. Is something which we all do. Um and we all know how to do at least think we do but because we can. Exert, voluntary, control, over it in a way that we can't easily with the heartbeat, or digestion. We do. So any trauma or stress or anxiety, tends to lead to breath-holding. So if there's one piece of advice, it's don't hold your breath, and. Breathe out more than you breathe in, yeah but. Don't pay too much attention to your breathing because. That can actually, trigger. Anxiety. But notice if you're holding your breath and if you are just drop your shoulders, and just.
Just Breathe out. Fantastic. Brilliant advice. And something everybody, can. Can apply straight away. So, that's fantastic. Well uh, stephanie's, has been fantastic. Thanks very much for your time, um. So the uh the devices. Now if, for those, viewers who haven't ordered it yet please, search on indiegogo. And you can find it and learn more about, how it works and and when it's available. Fantastic, listen we're, i'm incredibly grateful for your support. Um. We're an impact company we're looking to. Have a global impact like i say so it's just so important to us that um. People who have tried the device and believe in it are supportive, i'm, very grateful. That's great thanks stefan, that's fantastic. Thanks so much. Thanks for watching. Let me know in the comments who else you'd like me to interview, and for more videos on anxiety. Technology. And. Lots of other subjects. Please hit subscribe. And i'll see you in the next. Video. You.