Developer Relations with Mandy Waite: GCPPodcast 129
Hi. And welcome to episode number 129. Of the weekly Google cloud platform podcast, I'm, Mok Mandal and I'm here with my colleague Melanie, Warrick how are you doing Melanie I'm doing good mark how are you I'm very well good very well you know it's funny I talked, to somebody recently on your team and they were like I listened to one of your podcasts, and it was when you both were sick. That's. Right mark is finally well. It. Did anyways so mark this week we are going to be talking with Mandy Waite who is on our team, and in our developer relations team and she runs one of the groups and she. Talks to us all about developer, relations and what it is and how to think about it ya know super interesting chat definitely, yep but as always we always start with the cool thing of the week and we end with our question of the week and the question for this week is that on May 25th as some of you may be aware especially for all the privacy notices that you might be getting in your inbox yeah gdpr. Has gone into effect and so we wanted to touch on that briefly in terms of google cloud platform and what that means for our group and Google cloud platform so we will do that at the end sounds, good yeah and we also are, coming out of the Memorial weekend for this podcast so hopefully, everybody's having a nice break or has had a nice break yes awesome. So let's get stuck into our cool things of the, week this, one I like a lot this, is really, neat basically. We have a blog post an article and documentation and stuff you can play with for, better cost controls we the Google cloud billing, programmatic, notifications. Short. Answer being if you've ever been thinking what, happens if my costs, just suddenly skyrocket, and I don't happen to notice them that, would be bad I would not appreciate that on Google cloud so, what we can do now is set up programmatic, notifications, for cost control on Google, cloud this is good this is really important it's really cool so, right now it's it up so that basically a pub/sub, notification, occurs but, we have examples, set up so that you can go and read them and put the links in the show notes basically, to fire off a cloud function which could then do things like set a notification to slack possibly, send you an email you, could even do stuff like just turn, off billing or possibly turn off certain resources within your project to help slow down the amount of costs that you're having depending on what it is that you're building really, the world's your oyster but it is really cool now that you have this sort of warning system, in place and or you know something you might want to automatically do actions on - right yeah the post helps, you understand, what you can do to set up these types of notifications and makes it easy for you which is good because I agree, with you it's important for us to have a way to monitor, and not. Go, over a budget okay, so the. Other cool thing of the week is one of our colleagues gave Weiss has, written, about a cool. IOT, project. He worked on which was in conjunction with firebase and so he wanted to he's. A musician on the side and there's, a sound, room that he wanted to be able to have an understanding of when it's available and what it isn't so he built out an IOT device using, a Raspberry, Pi and, a, passive infrared sensor to, detect. Motion and determine. When the, room is in use and he was doing this with a motion sensor to avoid capturing. Sound or capturing video in that room but to definitely detect is it in use and how often is it in use and he, shows how to build that out with, the actual IOT device as well as combine it with firebase to track the data itself so I should. Check out the blog post and see if you want to play around with motion detector yourself nice, yeah another, fun thing Alexi, who is on our team as well we've mentioned him before he does a this, week in Google cloud platform blog, post one, of the things out of that that I thought was particularly interesting, recent IO attendees. Were able to complete in person code labs at the event but those code labs are actually available as well there's 25 plus updated, cloud code labs you, can get we'll put the link in the short notes it's GCO, / io / code labs if you click on the cloud category, you can get the cloud ones but all the other ones are there as well also, we'll put a link in there that.
There's The also the complete, list of free cloud code, labs they, remain available as well jierou. / code labs / cloud there's, role available so if you're looking for some free training or some free how to's on how to build stuff on cloud on Google cloud specifically, we'll put those links in the show notes and you can have it done that's great and the last thing we're going to mention is that there, is a kubernetes, podcast, if you haven't noticed one that is explicitly about kubernetes. And that's, being run by Adam Glick and Craig, box it, will put the link in the show notes but they have been releasing podcasts, every week so far for the last month on Tuesdays, when they usually release and so, far you know that we had, Parris Pittman couple, months ago now come on and that was their, first guest and since then they've touched on you. Know coop flow and G Weiser. Stackdriver kubernetes, monitoring, so check, this out if you're looking for more information kubernetes, but it's a really hot domain to remember easy kubernetes. Podcast.com, good, sigh simple yeah that'll, be it'll be all your things kubernetes, will, still keep talking about Karen at ease of course of course I'm on the show cuz marks here but, if, you want more if this isn't enough for you you will, have another avenue, to check out excellent, wasn't. Well shall we go chat with mandy then I think it's time let's do it this, week's podcast we are thrilled to have with us Mandy Waite who's a manager on the dev rel team and Mandy. Thanks for joining us thank, you for having me I'm glad our schedules, finally aligned now that we have you here can you tell the people who are listening a little bit about who you are what you do so, my name is Mandy Waite I am. Developer. Advocate I'm not actually on a manager ladder currently I'm a developer, advocate at Google cloud, I run, a team of, infrastructure. And operations advocates. Or working. With a wide variety of communities, such as DevOps. Sre. Cloud native cloud, native ops potentially. Security. And networking in the future we're still growing the teams over focused, very much on DevOps and cloud native currently, I've. Been around at Google, for nearly, eight years now I came. From some Microsystems where I used to do a kind, of similar role but which was much more marketing, in mind trying, to get people to adopt our stuff and I. Got a job with Google working, on AdWords as a developer advocate that. Was interesting, extremely. Great, technical, challenge to be a PID ID was API is extremely, complicated and it's a lot of fun and he has to scale and understand. And that was really really useful to me was kind, of background I had was a scale. In systems and scaling api's was new to me but, you had very much the same kind of similar problems that I've been facing in, the past with Sun did. I move to cloud in, 2012. At the end of 2012 and I've been on cloud ever since and we've. Grown from a small team of people, a mix of roles before to a small team of developer advocates so. A team of a number of areas over time I think, it's 46 so we have a large team now we. Generally. No longer service, developer advocates was much more aligned with being, advocates, or cloud advocates although. We do developer, advocacy as well, for me it's much more around. Not. Really hovering, developer anymore is more about talking, to other communities, ones that are very very important to us when it comes to making. Sure that we had the best possible products and that would be the devops community cloud, native cloud native operations, communities, sre, is a great story lots of people are starting to look at doing necessary, security.
For The future probably, security, across the board if there's all different aspects. Of Technology, so. That's what we're doing currently as, I say I manage a team of, about 10, people on my team currently and your team focuses, on your saying you're on infrastructure, and operations right, infrastructure, operations, yeah it's a very general term I know it's the best term but it seems this one we landed on originally. Called it operations in infrastructure but, somehow. I got turned around I'm not sure why I don't, forgive any matters they could be the DevOps team or a DevOps cloud native team but infrastructure. Operations seems they cover it more it's, definitely not developer, centric so, I'm gonna ask you the hard question, then because, how do you define developer, relations yeah. So interesting, question, to. Be honest I mean the, fact that we work with other communities other than developers gives, us an interesting challenge because, some. Umbrella term that we can use to reference, all of these communities. That we work with developer. Community to DevOps community the, data science community, there is no really good umbrella, term and we tend to fall back on technical, communities, as being the umbrella term but it's not a good one we're still fundamentally, developer, relations but we've. Just really kind, of overloaded the term developer, to mean all of these other communities, as well and so. Developer. Relations is actually making sure that we had the best possible products and the best possible experience for people using the products as possible and, also. Making. Sure that we communicate what, we have take. Our narratives, and our messages on the road and Soudan to people help. Them understand how they can solve their problems with our products because, actually extremely important, but. Not forcing, products and on people's throats saying, hey we had this thing you. Should use this it's not around giving, people put up pictures it's about talking. About how we can solve problems. Using. Our technology and often, that's a case of meeting people where they are when you have something like now because that involves, using, tooling, that they're familiar with already with, our cloud product so they'll be using something like Jenkins to, do build pipelines and such like CIC, deed and, we want Jenkins to work really well and. A great example of that would be infrastructure. As code that kind of thing having, people making sure they use chef and puppet and terraformed and that, those things work perfectly, well with, our cloud platform they're. All is also an aspect of being opinionated as well don't say like Google do things this way and.
This Is what we've been doing with kubernetes for a long time so four years ago we started talking about kubernetes it, was new to us apart from the fact that we knew. How things worked internally, at Google with. Borg and I think you've had John Milton talking about board before Borg. Was really really interested in to many of us and taking, that message out on the road to show people hey have you ever considered in this way it, was on the back end of the container revolution. And my message back then was very much hey. I have all of these containers, now what do I do with him and, cumulus was a solution to that but it was it. Was highly opinionated but. He was also a new paradigm as well and I think people have adopted it at scale and I think is a kind. Of a really good inflection, curve showing, adoption of communities, and I, like to see. More of that happening, but being opinionated about something you, have to be careful with it because you, can't always change the way people feel about something meeting. People where they are is very very important, but if you have a better way then. You should be showing them how they can be successful doing. It that way but. Without dismissing. What they're doing currently and making, it seem like what. They do may be trivial compared to what we're doing build, it like Google might be a great message but. We had to be respectful the fact that people build things our own way currently, and if this helps them and solve some of their problems for them then, that's great and we can take those messages out and people will listen to them but we, have to meet people where they are and keep. The opinionation, a little, bit more low-key so. You were saying about how this being developer relations what, comprises, of developer relations, well comprises, developer relations people. Well. So part of the reason I'm asking is Mark and I officially developer. Advocates and I know we have a number of different roles within the team and so I'm basically setting, this up to say hey, what, are some of the roles what are some of the makeup of the teams that we have yeah. I think, I don't know I was being flippant but in people as well so I think it's very important, that you know that the people aspect of it is so massive the importance of this role it. Is very much about working with people and being at a commune wouldn't be able to understand. The needs empathy. Is a huge, word or whether we use a lot another, word is really important is trust, so, trust an ember feared very much people things and not related to technology in any meaningful way I think. It's probably, very easy to be in technology and not have a lot of trust and not to have a lot of empathy and I.
Think One, of the keys have, been successful, in developer relations has been after have. Those skills. Not necessarily develop them I think you can develop empathy I always. Go back to something, I saw when I was working with a TV rental, company back in the UK a long long time ago when I was 16. Years old and they, just have a sign on their the wall next to the reception area saying be. Sincere and I always said, you can't be sincere you either are or aren't and I, think it's some of that with. Empathy, you know empathy is something you, potentially, can develop but, it is deep it is fundamental, you know you can't make, people think you have them but if you wanted me to do all you don't and, I think have an empathy is something that, I see across the whole of the team and, I think that's really really important for us and the trust part of it is also implicit. Of them so what benefits, does Google cloud get out of the relationship that it has with its developer, relations team like why do we even exist yes, I began 20 years probably, doing, this work, people. Have always known we were very important, and not really quite known why or, being. Prepared to take the risk of not having their. Braille backups. Sun Microsystems we, used to be moved from software, organizations. To marketing organizations, because people knew that we were absolutely necessary but not quite sure where we fitted in to the. Organization so. Why. Do we have Deborah well, I actually asked this question there was some people a couple years ago we were doing, some strategizing. Around things and I asked, the question what would happen if there was made everyone you know I suppose very much we would have voice products, we would have worse developer, experiences, and I said I felt. The answer was that the product scenes would create their own Devereux it. Was an essential. Role. Within, a team we. Were a product seemed to have some kind of devrel function, some, PM's many. PM's feel that they have a good handle on what customers are doing and such like and. Not all of them feel very close to their actual, community, abusers, it could be in this case a DevOps community in my team order developer community and, they know that they need to go out and get that information they also need to know that they need to take their messages out and show people how they can be successful with those products at their building so, they would fundamentally build, their own devrel. Team and if. You look at that scale. Across a large number of products and going back to when I started it was things like AdWords, web chrome, Android. You. Would have lots of different different functions. Growing up in parallel and. Commonalities. Scale, make. It sensible to pull them all out and put them together in one place I would. Argue that there. Are always problems around doing their role in. A cookie cutter away for, a specific product it needs to be different than home for each different product I think, that's extremely important, to understand and it also depends where our product is in its product lifecycle it. Depends on your audience as well so those considerations are important, but, I think having, a dev role team we can benefit from large scale programs, the kind of mentality. And the mindset of the people that we hire gives. Us a huge, edge when it comes to doing Devereux as opposed to having a product team building their own team so, I think that's why we have Debra all currently yeah. I think that. Because I know you one of the next questions you can ask me about how we measure it interesting. Yeah well okay how do you measure it what are ways. That you can determine it's impactful, I've, given this a lot of thought a lot of whatever it is I think, there. Is always. Consequences. Of the work that we do the number of people who watch a video to length of time that they watch the video the amount of engagement, they have with the things that we produce and they could be looking at a medium post or reading a blog post I think, those things are very easy to measure and capture I think.
There Is a danger around, having. A goal around those numbers always, I don't think it's a good thing to have a goal around a number to, say we should have 1, million video. Views within. Q1, or q2 I don't, think that's a very good way of doing. It but it is a good metric and, so if you look at the work that you do and the things that you do some. Matches are gonna bubble out of there and you can push them up to people but they shouldn't be the, reason why you're doing it so the reason you would do a video series was to get important information out, to people or, to, drive some strategic, goal that you really care about and you've agreed with the product teams and, ultimately. The. Metrics will drop acid and you can report up on them and you can say we did 500 events or see and events last year we, did a hundred, and fifty videos and we had X number of views and X number, of in-person outreach. Was done but, I don't think they're the numbers that we should be driving I think. One thing this, is a little bit dangerous but I think it's interesting, to. Think about this more is done products. Tend to have a graph of adoption. Or usage, utilization. Or, efficacy. Usefulness. And that kind of thing and those, graphs you. Naturally want them to go up into the right probably. Not linearly like exponential. Growth you possible but. I think, your products are going up and sort of right and you have a devrel function now I think that shows that your devrel function is working and doing, things correctly you. Might be tempted to say well it's implied ever a function away and see if it flattens, but you're not going to want to do that so, there is always that danger you're, not quite sure you. Can't necessarily attribute. A word that Devereaux does to, don't happen to your right curve, but, I think, it's important, to understand it it's a fundamental, part of all of your process of building the product and bringing it to market is, that you have a devrel function that's ultimately driving, the product to be better based, on people's feedback and you're showing people how to use it and making sure people are aware of it I think. Awareness is a great thing but awareness is so difficult it's so so. Difficult it still seems, to me that there's, a large number of people out there a large. Percentage of people not a number a large percentage of people that I've, not heard about Google Cloud products and that's it. Seems strange considering, amount of work that we've done but I just, think that there are a large number of people out there and I think we have to be aware of that and not. A lot of people work in the environments where they don't get exposed so all of these things very much and so, maybe they don't know of it because of that I'd.
Like Everybody to know about our products, and how, to be successful with those products I'd, like to be getting feedback from everybody said that we can bring, that back to the product teams and make our products better I don't, know how we, can reach that I think we probably need to continue, to grow endeavour always as a product teams grow I think, we like behind a little bit as the products grow Debra. Is always a little bit behind the curve when it comes to adding, more people so. In terms of impact, what are some of the activities you've, seen that have had the most impact that's. A really good question and, you didn't give that one to me. Is a good question and I think people. Do things in different ways I think the. Great thing about our deverel team is original, cookie cutter approach they're doing it we do it differently we do it based on our own skills our own experiences, the things that we're good at we. Do it based on our own products now I'm communities. That we're trying to reach and our own goals and strategies as well so. I see lots of different things and lots of different success stories I think having a podcast, is a great idea so thank. You without, ideas it should be no as all mark I have no idea that was maybe was your dog it, was Francis good I'll get him but we got very, good at doing videos and we felt in the past two years ago that we weren't very good at doing videos and they'll be much better at doing videos we had a lot of attention for our videos where, I saw very, sick things and bright at a point we've. Socialized them very well we get lots of views and nothing that's really important that's really impactful I think. That for, open-source projects which is a new really, a new thing around, doing advocacy for Oh Debra, for generally I went single. Out advocacy but just devrel generally is that it's.
A Different kind of way of doing things, and I look at somebody like Jana, Dogen on my team who's working on open census and she's. Really. Involved in the community she, was, a sweet on the community she was doing lots of contributions to it but, she understands exactly what the mission is and what the goal is and she understands the community and their needs and she understands what you would like to get out of it and she's doing a different kind of dev'reaux dare we were consensus, that's, another different way of doing and another different way of being successful so. I think he's really a case of constantly. Exploring and constantly adapting, I had this goal I want to achieve this which maybe I wanna grow, adoption of big query constantly. Thinking about new ways of doing it maybe going on Reddit and game millions, and billions of people to actually talk. About your product which is some done our team does Felipe yeah Felipe, yeah so, yeah so I think there's lots of great things that people do and I'm, just, hoping that there's more innovation, because you. Look at it and you think we've, done all of that everywhere we can all the different ways of doing there Rob and someone's going to come up with something new Oh actually, gentle, is currently, doing, live stream code in twitch, for devrel, effectively, in there I really, like that I think that's going to be a new model it, peels so a different way of thinking I tend to think that people change. As they grow with, technology, the way people think about things is probably different than the way I used to think about them when I was young because. Just, technologies they're never present nothing livestreaming, seems to be a really. Big deal for people nowadays well, Marcus doing that and so is Holden actually, asked a few of us that's. Great Chris Broadfoot on the go team DB. Livestream. Is a new one say these are the things we wouldn't have predicted a while back I'm hoping that next year there'll be another really, great innovative way of actually. Doing this kind of developer relations and, getting the message out to people maybe something with IOT yeah, so on a practical note, sort, of you were talking about this as well how like tailoring the devrel experience, for different communities in different groups you run the infrastructure and ops group which, is a very different community say, there may be the wider tech community how have you seen, basically, the approach for Deverell in that space be different from say other communities, that you've worked in I think, it's the, DevOps community, I have a different need from the more general developer community, I kind.
Of Struggle, with saying that it sounds because I think we've grown up with developers, we didn't develop relations, for 10 years 11 years or so and it's easy, to think that developers. And DevOps are different, fundamentally, the way we should do messaging system is different I think. It's at the moment we don't have very many people doing developer. Relations for DevOps and, so I think the key here is to look, to hire people who are practitioners people. Who actually come. From that community a part of that community and, bring them onto the team and have them advocate on behalf of, that, community through our product teams and also understand. The needs and help them solve their problems because the. Problems that I community have exactly, the same problems that they've had up till now and, so I think that's really really important, and I'm. Going to follow for now if we just could just, break the question a little bit that I often. Find myself drawing, to people on a whiteboard something, called a trainer curve, so. Ben trainer has this kerbin, trainer is the guy who invented sre, at Google and. We had his trainer curve about how people with skills change over time and I constantly, draw his picture whereby a practitioner, would have core, practice new skills and maybe not so much advocacy. Skills at the time we start and that their practitioner, skills would wane over time, in our advocacy skills would improve and so, I have my own trainer, curve whereby advocacy. Skills are now much better, than practitioners, girls and I think at times you need to kick energy back into that to say hey you need to go back to being a prize again it may well be that they feel comfortable and that they're really on it and they actually know what's going on but I think I'm time to time you need to step back and say okay, what is my community doing let me go back and be one of them for a while and I'd like to see us doing more of that I mean it comes to practitioners so, I think that's really really helpful having practitioners, and keeping us practitioner, skills I think, it's also possible to, pivot, to a practitioner. Role as well I think we had an evidence of that on my team currently when, it comes to security which jen, is doing as well I think that's really really interesting I think. There's, also a, lot, of space. For more. Generalists, to grow up internet spaces go on to learn from the practitioners, and to become practitioners as well so having, more senior people as practitioners but having more junior people as, the. People who learn, from them take, their messages on the road maybe, not have the same kind of recognition as they do but can, help with content and videos and such like and I think those people are really really key to it as well because, there are not that many practitioners, in the world and so if you want to have a reasonably, large team and good coverage stand you're, probably not going to be able to do that just by hiring practitioners, so definitely.
Get From preciousness, I had this conversation with Adam Seligmann. Recently about trust versus credibility, and I do agree trust is extremely, important we need people to trust our, advocates, when, they talk to them I know this person I trust what they're telling me and at the same time I'll put that team stakeholders, as well should trust them and trust them when they bring stories. And feedback back to the pod it seems that say maybe you should do it this way they trust that person of you and they. Give it to consideration. I know Trust in particular is very valuable when it you can give, them a perspective and it's not necessarily being driven by the product itself it's being specifically. Driven, by this. Is what I know about the space this is what I'm able to bring to the table about the space yeah so. When I was asking earlier before about you know developer, relations at Google and what that looked like a little part of why I had led down the path to that question was I hear, developer. Evangelists. As a, term that's constantly, intermixed, with developer, advocate, so I'm curious what your perspective is on these two terms and you know how they relate and how they don't relate yeah, and a really interesting question I think we're a large company whoever large developer, relations team it's, very easy for us to kind of be very specific, about what we do when it comes to a role, we, can shape the role to be what it needs to be and so let's. Go back a bit take one step is bi-directional our, role as AI because it's doing, evangelism effectively, talking to people what, I think it's a different kind of evangelism it's much more like sitting down with people and holding their hands and talking, them through things learning, from them and having them learn from you and she talked them through how, you can potentially solve their problems at that point you may learn things that you didn't know about the product and how it works and what you can bring feedback, back to the product, seems so, it's not really, fundamentally, evangelism Aldo delivers a lot of that going, to events and doing outreach is very much a form, of evangelism, and that the other end is this kind of influence on the product and bringing feedback like I'm making cases, right in what we call friction logs which are things details. Somebody's interactions. With my products and some of the problems that they may have had raising. Bugs driving, fixes showing, people what kind, of impact, is likely to be achieved through, addressing. A particular, issue and I, think you fascism, is that one half of that and I think some teams some. Smaller debra team just can't really, afford to do both parts of it it's much more about getting the message out and so, they focus more specifically.
On The evangelism component. Of it but, I think advocacy, is rooted, in that bi-directional. Thing, whereby we influence our product seams and we influence how communities, don't see a question yes. Curious. Also to know your thoughts on if, people, listen to say this podcast or they've heard other things about developer relations what, have been some paths or their path that you think would be great for people who want to get involved with developer, relations because, it seems like a fairly niche thing in some ways yeah. Really interesting insight because the. Practitioner, way of thinking about it it's interesting I mean obviously we're hiring, practitioners, then they may not come necessarily, with advocacy skills but they're, going to want to want to do that kind of work and when. You interview people and, you ask them why developer relations is always about I. Showing, people having work I like teaching people I've, always been like that always you, find that you look at their github and it's all based on tutorials, and such like what I've been producing tutorials, you show people how to do things and it's really interesting there, are some, people have the mindset that I just want to help people some, people also once they've, experienced, pain in the, past and I don't mean physical, pain but the, pain that I experienced, some Microsystems when I was trying to make something, called opensolaris which, was from source version of Solaris work. With all of the Linux applications. In rpms and suchlike were out there and, nothing ever worked I would, spend a lot of my time google, him for esoteric. Error messages, and nobody's. Ever seen this problem before ever. So. I felt, very much I wanted to blog about that I wanted to share that where people said that they could find it if they ever hit that same problem again they would be able to solve it and every, time that happened I've blogged about it I've blogged about it I blogged about it and I think, that's something, that a lot of people like doing he's like they don't want people to experience the same kind of pain that they've experienced, and so that's, another reason to come into this kind of role you, want to make the world a better place I use up my tagline for, Twitter, was make. The cloud a better place for developers. So I think some people just want to do that the, question was more about paths into, advocacy right but I think you need that part, of it you need that mentality you've, seen the best speakers, you know they're the ones actually really care and do have empathy for their audience and, that's. Always gonna be a case having empathy not, developing necessarily. Waldo days possible have, an empathy be developers is also key or your, target audience and I'm overloading, that word developers, again which happens, early. Where, would you want to see this field grow into. How do you want to see it evolve based. On what you've seen so far yeah, that's a really, interesting question and to keep testing for I want. It to be bigger I like. The fact that it's different that, people do it differently and people approach it differently I like it to be continuously, evolving, I don't, think there's enough. Standardization. Around it I would, like to see it moving away from being. A marketing, function which it often is I don't think that's the, best place for Deverell I would much bro see, it rooted in engineering, principles, I know that's not always possible I'm not sure if I have a strong opinion, of that though I don't know, if I'm a strong opinion of where I want it to go I want, to have influence when I'm what really, eventually in a world to be a better place for people who are building thick or doing thick and I, think tech is on, a path that makes, it very hard for us to keep up it's likely to be asymptotic, the closer we get to having. Really good experiences. For people using say probably, the further up and away from us it gets and makes it more difficult through. Your experience, your history of working in tech, I'm just curious as a side thing what is it one of the technologies, that you've seen that really you were so excited, about when it finally came and you felt like it completely had this huge impact that you wouldn't have imagined, or expected, yeah I think I've already mentioned it contained, the scheduling humanities, doctor. Was I watched Solomon hikes give me the talk at dot scale which, is happening in Paris least we can all we'll be there watching.
Solomon, Hikes talk about docker in 2013, was, really really exciting comparison, to containers, shipping containers and such languages it. Just really moved me it was really a fantastic it's a great event nationally and, having. Containers, was great but having. An ability to scheduled room like the way we do at Google was even, better for me it was like I really, get this I really understand how this works and I really want to make this a thing I became, very determined, to make it a thing and hopefully. I made some small contribution, to that era so I know you did kubernetes, was very, much nothing that made me most excited these kind of paradigms just although, on the whole I probably would. Say cloud native generally, the, whole principles, behind cloud native are probably more. Important, as kubernetes, becomes more of the new infrastructure, that can publish down into the substrate as I used to describe it to people and things, get built on top of it because it's an enabler, for new things I think we can do services. Better now that we have things like this do and things like that don't come along service meshes generally, and all. Of the other ecosystem, components that have coming up around Kuban it is just really really exciting and, I think it just changes the way you think about it I'd love to get away from traditional, infrastructure completely, and just using. Containers and not worry about where they run excellent. Are we hiring at the moment I think, they're always very large at Google and we have lots of opportunities, hire people here there's always some, job. Description. Open for a role with endeavor all at Google my. Team we have a couple, currently, they're coming and going and such like we have pipelines that get full up and suchlike but yeah, we're definitely hiring, cloud, advocate. For DevOps potentially, or cloud advocate, for cloud natives I kind of mean really. The best place to go for information, around, that is careers or google.com which has all of our listings there you, can also do um me on Twitter with, much better and, are going to be published yes we are definitely focusing, that yeah so you can also do me on Twitter as well.
Well I can say it it's a pretty great team I can't, complain too much. Definitely, so Mandy, I know we're getting, close to time but is there any place you're gonna be at, outside, of Paris, that, you'll be speaking at or you'll be attending. That you want people to come, and say hi let me think not really I don't get so many talks anymore which is a shame I like to even talk so, I, don't have any specific, plans I'm gonna be at, various different events cloud next events cloud summit events that we have coming up I'll, be in London probably, in Tokyo as well certainly, been in San Francisco but we have in July which. Is July, 23rd, I believe cloud, next in San Francisco, yes definitely. Anything. Else that you wanted to share around developer, relations that we did narrow to cover I don't, think so I think drinking lots of water to make sure your boys can hold up long. Periods of time because my, voice just doesn't hold up very well you'll always find me in videos, with a bottle of water man so. It's very hard with my voice to, survive a long talk, that's. My big tip is always have a bottle of water with you like, that well, we appreciate you coming on the podcast thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on developer relations and, yeah, thank you so much welcome and thank you for running the podcast it's much appreciated it's a great thing to listen to and really. Really really enjoy it thank you how pleasure thank, you Mandy. Always a pleasure to chat with you thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talk to us about your perspective on developer relations, I'm always insightful definitely, agree and I'm glad we finally got to it too because I know we'd been trying, to get that into the podcast sooner rather than later so Marc, question, of the way the question yeah, so as you were mentioning before May, 25th, gdpr. Came, into effect and that's the general data protection. Regulation. In the EU, thank you but where do I go to learn more about, GDP, are in regards to Google cloud platform and, the effect it has and all that all the stuff that I need to know I am NOT a lawyer you, were not neither of us are yeah and, this is a regulation in the EU law on data protection and privacy for all individuals within the European, Union it addresses the export, of personal data outside of the EU so, we, are including the shownotes a couple of links we have around, you know how information. In relation to Google cloud and general data protection regulation, you, know they've got some information around complying, with the gdpr may require, changes across your business this is just more general guidelines to keep in mind when you're looking at GDP are you, know and they've got some tips and pointers, especially, like product, and feature guidance, as well and it's worth noting these guides are both G suite and Google cloud platform right, yes.
Under Both of them they'll talk about you know it's great especially when you're using like two-step verification to. Reduce risk of unauthorized access, by. Asking users for additional proof of identity you, know that it's good to help include. Those functionality. When you're thinking about this regulation, but you. Can check out the resources that we're going to provide and we're also including a link that is a data, protection fact sheet for citizens, of the EU and. It gives a nice summary and pseudo, visualizes. Some, of the key rights. That now exist, and how to understand. Them yeah. Excellent. So Melanie. Where are you going what are you doing what are you up to what's going on I am, gonna be speaking at a joint, event, that, the women in machine learning in data science and pilotes have organized in San Francisco at door. - on path, to data science on June 26, and once the meetup invite us out I will definitely include that in our show notes but. Yeah that's where I'm gonna be and mark what about you so literally. The day this comes out I will be presenting that evening at the monthly SF, and game developer, community, I'll, be doing my presentation called, you can't just add more servers which is the point where you normally make fun of my accent and say you love saying that - you, just can't no actually that's just how I talk now. You. Like saying Mac that's fine but I'll also highlight i've been streaming, a lot on twitch as well I had a really fun one recently where, I did a bunch of stuff I've got I'll put a link to the YouTube video actually because that'll hang around but. I've been streaming writing, a code I had a fun one recently where we did some fun work around wrapping an existing dedicated game so ever basically we took an existing process and then, we intercepted, the standardout and then using the text that was coming out of the standardout we just, implemented some actions to occur it was a really nice sort of exploration of interfaces, and go actually I think it worked really nicely cool it was cool so, I'll just highlight that because I thought that was a particularly if do you one I'm glad you're having fun with twitch in the streaming it's awesome, mark, I think that's it for us for this week yeah, Melanie thank you very much for joining me for yet another week on the podcast thank you thank, you all for listening and we'll see you all next week.