The Pillars of Operational Resilience with Jayaraj Puthanveedu - Business, Interrupted

business as usual is challenged every day  it's not about if disruption occurs it's when   on this original show from castellan solutions  we're learning from the world's best leaders so   you can be ready for whatever comes  next i'm your host cheyene marling   hello jay thank you for joining us on business  interrupted for the audience who does not know you   if you could give us a little bit of overview of  your career and how you got to where you are today   yeah cheyene thank you so much for having  me really great to be with you in a nutshell   a technologist who found an opportunity in cyber  by accident um went on to do cyber security which   was called IT security at that point and then  moved on to do some bits of business continuity   and resilience aspects and then um been doing  operational risk and non-financial risk roles um   for financial sectors for the last uh uh many  years now so it's been it's been a journey where   uh technology has gone into a risk manager  now looking back through your career   what has been one of those major pivotal moments  that really define the direction of your career   and where you are today that's an interesting  question um because there's been many moments in   but i would suggest i'll just start with the  first one that were the early moments of my career   where i happened to be in cyber by accident  because uh this is where i got recruited   initially it was almost my first job um where i  was supposed to be doing system administration   for an organization and when i got hired  immediately within the first week itself   my manager came and told me that the client  whom i was supposed to be working for   have withdrawn the project that means i no  longer had the role that i was recruited for   at that point my manager or my organization did  not know what to do with me so i was hanging   around in the organization without a role and  knocking the door what to do so that's a time   i started reading about what's happening what's  the next big thing coming up this is in late 90s   by the way so it's been a while and uh there was  a there was at that point i remember there was a   a book for a firewall um lying around in the  office so i started reading about firewall and   what is the firewall and what security means etc  and then we started looking at this particular   and there was a couple of products that's coming  into market um so i started um reading about it   then i asked for a computer to be loaned to me i  started the mini couple of computers to set up a   lab and started experimenting with it's what i  can do and that's the time i realized i think   this is an area that not many people in the  industry are aware of it so it was like security   i.t security securing your network because that's  uh this was just about just before the dot-com   uh bubble happened so it was just about  the time that internet was getting popular   and the dot-com bubble was emerging and people  were all going internet so there were some   queries coming from customers and i started um  picking up the i.t security elements of peace   and then it just so happened that um when  i started doing the research my own and the   sales and the pre-sales team came back and said oh  what are you doing about your cyber security okay   good thing probably probably we got some  customers who are interested in that as well   and in in that context then i realized in in  that little office i landed becoming the mini   expert on cyber on it security within six  months because there was not many people   i became one of the few experts who could  talk i.t security in the organization and then   there was no looking back so to me that was a  defining moment because when i was told there   was no job and this was not something that i  even dreamt about doing it it happened to be by   accident started reading that and didn't realize  it's going to be as grand career as it is right   now in late 90s to convince that you need security  it took a lot of time to do it so it was it was an   interesting moment and i'm really proud of where  it started with because that kind of triggered   me to think about what's the next opportunity  in your career so i did it security for a while   and then becomes i did system integration  product installation etc then went on to do   um other aspects of integration and consulting  and then move to banking and they know to risk   management and there i am so to me that moment  in my career um and then that helped me move   to the needle every time when i think  this is important when i want to try new   i am not a worse to trying anything  new in the career in terms of   a new role or new opportunities etc and i kind  of that kind of keeps me driving all the time   and i think that's a great example because i talk  to professionals all the time about next steps   where to take their career and i think many cases  some people get siloed or they feel that they need   to stay within one discipline but in fact business  continuity resiliency security being such an   enterprise driven aspect across the organization  it encompasses so many different factors and   disciplines to make sure that it is conversing  across the entire organization so you have the   resiliency the physical security the cyber  security you have crisis management risk   management um operational management all of those  different aspects third-party risk management   where i talk to people today and i say listen  there's a lot of different directions you can take   your career back in 1998 it was very siloed very  siloed very limited with career growth and now   you look at it today and quite frankly there's so  many different directions if you want to get more   into the cyber piece or if you want to get  more into the third party risk management   you can take it upon yourself just like you did  in immersing and learning about it and taking   that action to really um you know look for that  opportunity right absolutely and i think that's   what i think the key thing happens is because  i happen to do business continuity after again   kind of by semi accident because as part of the  cyber security aspect you look at confidentiality   integrity and availability aspects came into big  piece so i started looking from cyber and i.t   disaster to korea it's kind of two sides of the  coin you need to look at you know protecting it   you also need to recover from it so you started  looking at that uh and it was mostly the it   resilience aspect the i.t continuity aspect  is what you kind of started doing from cyber  

but then the 9 11 changed the whole lot of things  because prior to 9 11 our business continuity plan   was to have a server back up in your data center  another one somewhere else that is your bcp but   i think and the recovery side for people to  go to that was that was the best but i think   the 911 changed the whole way we look at business  continuity and crisis management across the across   the world not just for banking i think that's the  whole dynamics and i think that was interesting   so i kind of to be honest at that point i kind  of started focusing more on business continuity   and crisis management and less on cyber age of  cyber technology risk and information security was   always part of my passion i always had it but then  the priority and the focus of the organization and   also i we kind of moved on to more focusing on  how are we are we prepared for a crisis even are   we prepared for business continuity so it's kind  of trade doing that uh quite a lot because that   was the bigger risk at that point in a physical  attack we had terror attacks we had you know the   the big natural disasters and other stuff so a lot  of workers spend on business and i.t continuity   uh and resilience and then again the cyber picked  up a piece of it so by the time then you started   looking at you see these are all connected pieces  so from a career perspective if you're done cyber   security if you're an i.t control disaster because  you've done business continuity you've done crisis   management the good thing about you get to see a  bigger organization picture and the third party   piece is coming in then as a supply chain risk  became very very important in outsourcing and then   in sourcing and then also the entire landscape  of threat and supply chain started coming in so   what were you worried about in supply  chain risk continuity of your service   security of your service so you landed being  a good candidate who knows the risk emerging   from supply chain risk or third parties so you'll  end up doing okay i know most important things so   it helps you build the story and then when you do  that you also go with credible background and to   talk to your stakeholders that i know the stuff  so it's good to move uh from one to the other   there's also now opportunity all these disciplines  themselves are a big pillars on its own to make a   full carrier out of that so i think there's an  option to switch from option to stick to or you   can do operational risk management which kind of  covers framework elements of all of that etc so   this there's a lot of things that you can do and  i think you don't have to stick to it you can do   some couple of years are all then you can move  to another role and come back and do the same   thing again it's all about building the breadth  but having some level of depth in certain areas   you can't be mastered of all but you speak up  your passionate areas but you're able to talk to   at least do an elevator pitch to your board  members when you get to see a topic that is   of interest to them yeah that's so true and you  know it's interesting because a lot of individuals   they're trying to grow their career path within  this profession right and back in the day when   it was just the technology disaster recovery  people would find or hit the glass ceiling at   a director of disaster recovery back then that  was the term back in 98 99 or they would become   the director of data center recovery and that was  the glass ceiling they couldn't get above that   or beyond it and now you're seeing that business  resiliency continuity cyber the enterprise can be   within a within different bubbles right it could  be reporting into risk management especially true   with financial banking institutions or could  report into more technology resiliency cyber or   it could report into more of the uh the physical  security aspect under a chief security officer um   or quite frankly just under the chief operations  officer right so you know you i tell people within   this profession you can hit through that glass  ceiling but you need to have background in a   couple different disciplines have be expert within  a couple different disciplines but be able to have   a broad understanding of what's going into the  enterprise program as you move your career upwards   that you absolutely spot on and um the i.t  security and cyber component gives you a good   depth about technology the products and the risk  that comes with it actually the crisis management   and the business continuity role that i did for  a few years actually provided me the much broader   view of the organization because when you are  doing business continuity in crisis management you   actually touch the entire organization which is  a very good opportunity but you're a technologist   you look at a data center or technologist and  specific areas you look at depth knowledge about   it but we're looking business continuity you're  actually a generalist you are generalist you need   to think about how good organization can be run  in a constrained environment so you're basically   running your business in a constrained environment  so you get a very horizontal view so that actually   helped to look at if you've done technologies  you move to business country and resilience   you get the depth and then you start to get  the breadth then you're able to talk about   broader operational risk matters broader strategy  matters you know it could be people could be into   organization change organizations or you could  do cpu for operating officer roles and itself   because you don't have when you do these various  risk types you actually know how what was the   operational risk element you could do operational  risk role it could be a chief operating officer   you could the strategy role you could all  you could stick to your cso technology rolex   the horizon spreads in my personal experience this  is me business speaking about i think the business   continuity experience that and crisis management  very important relevant because when you do crisis   management you get to deal with the real senior  most people and help them guide through the   crisis so you get get that management visibility  you get that exposure you get the influencing   capability decision making capabilities a  lot of that so these gets added into your   depth of knowledge technical knowledge i think  then you are a credible talent uh for any senior   management role i don't think there is any limit  to any role you are probably if you want to be a   trader it's a very different business you know but  i think there's many other roles that you could do   so you are based in the uk prior to that you were  working in india what are some of the challenges   you find when you look at the discipline from an  from a worldwide perspective international because   i know that you've you've worked in different  geographies but not only that you've managed   global teams so what are some of the challenges  when you look across from you know worldwide in   implementing a program and driving it forward  the most important thing is the cultural fitment   of the program and that's very sometimes you  underestimate you could be a global organization   but the local cultures or the regional cultures  matters a lot and that has got a huge impact   and actually pandemic kobe 19 has been a good  demonstration of that as you if you look at it   most of the asia region countries were much better  prepared than the west because the pandemic was   always an assumption that it originates in  asia and it impacts only in asia so all the   pandemic planning research planning i don't think  organizations plant such a big scale of pandemic   it's always thought to be in asia problem but it  can originate from asia but it can spread anywhere   and so it you see when someone experiences a  crisis or someone experiences something their   attitude towards a problem it changes  much different to people who have not   experienced it and i think that's one thing so  culturally any program that you want to roll out   if that particular geography is able to  relate to that it's much easier said than   otherwise it's it's it's from top to bottom you  don't have to go to japan and tell them to be   prepared for earthquake they already know they  have to be prepared for earthquake it's just   an example you don't have to go to florida and  talk about hurricanes you know you don't have to   um go to certain uh places and you don't have to  talk about you know terrorist attack there are   there are you know places in the world the terror  attack is quite uh frequent so i think fortunately   and unfortunately the the important things  are so when you want to roll out a program   you relate to see you see what culturally and  what locally they've experienced that's fit for   them another thing in your manage the team and the  culture the other aspect is the way you do things   is very different the pace in which you do things  is very different i had an interesting experience   i went to one of those asian countries and i had  a presentation for the first time it was the first   time for me in that country i made a presentation  to a team of 30 members in a big meeting room   uh i spoke about an hour i love to speak  so i spoke about an hour after an hour   and i asked are there any questions you know this  has been a monologue for an hour i presented the   papers and no christians and there was no  response there was actually zero response   nobody responded to it anything so so i kept on  saying oh that's that means either you understood   everything or you understood nothing so  i made a joke still no response and uh   i finished the meeting came back up and i was  really confused so a very senior person who's not   from that country from another country came back  and told me i hear you that's not your problem   you will see tomorrow people will start come to  you and then that is so true within a week i've   got so many queries about the response but all  one on one ah you mentioned this what's it over so   there are some cultural nuances people don't  want to be seen as asking wrong questions in   front of a public and some you know and then you  go to another country where you try to speak for   it's a one-hour conference one-hour meeting you  try to present to 25 people you can't even get   the five minutes back because you have hundreds  of questions you can't finish your presentations   it depends on culture it depends on sensitivity  of the people so there is nothing called   you gonna do a global program rollout my advice  to everybody is understand the local sensitivity   understand the local culture and then try to  fit the global program within it that's the only   sustainable way of doing anything globally and and  it's if we do we live with that every day even now   yeah exactly exactly and i learned that right  away unfortunately i had a mentor that kind of   walked me through that yeah i think you made an  important point having a mentor i think that's   that's in general i think that's a very big  piece of advice that i would like to give it   pass it on is you know finding a mentor  is is very important to you and then   my advice is need not be in your work itself it  could be in your work but it could be outside it   could be a personal mentor it could be a friend  come mentor but having somebody to uh discuss   your career discuss when you get stuck and having  the trusted person who you know can be trusted   also the person has the time to give it to you  i think that's very important to find the mentor   now it need not be a very senior person it could  it could be a senior a person but there is a   misconception it has to be a very senior person  to be a mentor now it could be somebody on some   of your colleague who has got more experience  in a specific topic so mentor also doesn't mean   one mentor solves it all so as you rightly  said you went to asia the mentor for you in   asia is a mentor for that particular topic and not  necessarily for everything in life i think having   those mentors where you go to to have to somebody  i think that helps a lot to avoid embarrassment   solve problems and and also deal with challenges  so thinking about your career were there any other   interesting stories any other pivotal moments  that you want to highlight there's been another   interesting experience where once uh i had a  challenge of uh inheriting a team of people   or where all my direct reports were much senior  to me by age as well as number of years experience   in that organization etc and i was brought in  as a change agent to do a lot of transformation   it was very challenging for multiple reasons  first of all at some point the reality is that   some of the incumbents may want the job they  they would think that the outsider is not really   the right approach and it is sometimes challenging  to also think that um you have been brought to   bring the change that means you are the enemy so  it is a difficult challenge and i think uh this is   where uh i think there is uh at the need to build  the rapport so the way it helped me for me was to   first to make sure that those senior members who  are my direct reports but senior gets the right   respect that they that the duty requires so it  was an interesting journey for me challenging to   gain trust and confidence of my own team and then  having to drive change slowly so it was a big   big thing and there were there was definitely  the lesson learned was uh um i started talking to   president one again one of those uh mentors told  me this this these are the key people who are key   to your success because they know the organization  well so it's about mapping those right individuals   within the team and within the organization to  see how can they be your ally understand them   respect them get their feedback and then be  one among them and and and tackle the problem   not the people so then i think you take you  move uh take the people out of the equation that   context look at to see what we want to achieve  together how do you want to drive the change and   then you slowly tackle the problem together and  yeah in some cases some people don't want to be   part of the change and they they get to choose  whether to be part of the change or not so   that's an option but at least we do it in a way  that we take everybody on board and move along   without compromising the change agenda so  that that was a very interesting challenge   uh to hit the right balance and and then  also uh give people that is respect security   uh implement the change and also at some  point taking the tough decisions about   if there is somebody who cannot be who do not want  to be part of the change who are not the right   uh in the right mindset to find the  right role for them inside or outside or   do what to be taken so you have to  take some tough decisions at that point   it was tough initially you you end up thinking  it's going to be an easier role when you see every   day one after the other problems are coming in and  you always get the feedback this is not the way we   do it that's a standard thing when you are want to  do something changes say ah this is not the way we   do it so i think that's that's the first problem  to tackle is how do you address the question   this is not the way we do it and it's rightfully  so so i think we'll have to be very sensitive to   ask the question fine but how do we change it  now or how do we make it better i think that's   where the finding the delicate balance so it is  an interesting journey and it makes you you know   better as a manager better as a leader also you  always learn from everybody i think your people   from within your team people above you so these  that's the constant learning that you keep doing   yeah that's such a good point because at first  you were talking about being a change agent right   and we hear a lot of the soft skills that our  companies are looking for when they're looking to   hire and um change agent is obviously one of them  but emotional intelligence so those examples that   you were just using emotional intelligence is a  very big aspect of that and situational awareness   as well is another again another big aspect  especially when you look at business continuity   because you don't not only have your team and  then you're trying to invoke change like you   were just speaking about but then you're having  to understand the entire organization and roll   out a program that's going to work for the entire  organization so utilizing all those soft skills   are are so critical so critical you use  the right words emotional intelligence   and situational awareness that's that's that's  the right technical that's the right word it's   been interesting what we've been hearing from our  clients and our hiring managers on that and then   helping people within the profession try to  elevate their career and looking and understanding   their soft skills and how their conversation  one-on-one or within a group or within a team   how each conversation impacts what their brand is  and the brand is essentially your attributes your   competencies your soft skills um which really  comes into play as you elevate your career   within the profession mostly exactly and also  acknowledging the fact that we we won't be right   all the time in your career you will make mistakes  and it's more important to learn from those things   and move on and people keep making mistakes in  you know so most most of the time unintentionally   and when we make mistakes uh you have to see  that i mean it's another thing is you have to   have self-confidence and things but you make  mistakes and you know you had a bad day people   you will have a bed everybody will have a bad day  or two um but that you should not feel bad about   it and keep doing that you should move on and to  see okay fine how can i undo some other things   or if i can't undo it what can i do to not avoid  it what lesson did i learn from it so it happens   every day yeah and i love that bit of advice  because no you look at the leaders they're they're   not they're not perfect they didn't have a perfect  career path everyone makes mistakes at some point   and it's about you know taking ownership and you  know really elevating to the challenge right um   now with that being said is there anything  that you would have advice you would give   your younger self or anything that you  would tell someone who's coming in to our   business continuity resiliency world any bit  of advice you you would give that individual yeah maybe you're not gonna like it because i  personally think if i have to give an advice   to myself is uh where i think i made a mistake now  thinking back or maybe i could have done batteries   i always want to do something on my  own and uh that risk covers mentality   of uh um you know getting into the safety  net of not taking risk in terms of i have   taken risk in terms of changing career domains  and all of that but i think uh at some point i   want i had some ideas i want to do something  on my own but that risk covers mindset and   stopped me from doing that so  if i if if you are angsters   anyone listening to it and when you start your  career whether it is continuity or resilience or   cyber or third party any topic that you're doing  it of course do it because if you like it do it   otherwise it's going to be very  difficult because you have to like it   second thing even if you like it and if you think  you have it in you to do make an idea and make   make an entrepreneurial uh attempt i think  you should do that unless you go for it rather   than just wait for it to say oh let me build my  career let me reach at some state then i'll do it   it never happens after that so it's just like if  you wanna if you wanna feel doing it just do it   that's a great piece of advice because so if  you think about being entrepreneurial doing   something on your own it's never too late  jay i really appreciate you taking the time   to be on our show and if our listeners want  to find you how can they reach out to you   they can reach out to me on linkedin i think  that's probably the best way to reach out to me   thanks for listening to this episode of  Business, Interrupted I'm Cheyene Marling for   this leaders episode to get more insights  and resources head over to castellanbc.com   and follow along wherever you get your audio

2021-11-27 20:30

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