Stock Positions - Oh My! & Long Call Verticals | Trading a Smaller Account
all right good morning everyone welcome to trading a smaller account it is friday morning and there has been lots of action happening in the market and we have been part of it so i'm great to be with you all this morning as we have been doing all year we are looking at what is going on in the market in general with many stocks in particular and looking at how with a relatively small account we started the year with twenty thousand dollars we can place trades that can help either grow our account or generate an income or achieve whatever goal it is that that you want to achieve with it i'm delighted that you're with us um i'd like to start out always by greeting those that are with us in the chat as you can see if you're with us live um if there's a very boisterous chat that you know starts happening about half an hour before the bell even rings so good morning to vj and larry and lucy and ap 514 who were the first ones into the chat this morning and to deborah and marcy and priya and david and juanita and larry and vijay and the rest of the gang peter et cetera thank you all for being here and and for creating this community because i can't do it alone and i love that you guys come in you're convincing with one another and and you're helping each other out talking about stocks and trades and what's going on in the market and um and i just absolutely love that about this class so thank you very much for all that you do if you are watching this in the archives know that consider this my invitation to you to join us live on fridays at the market open that's at 9 30 eastern we spend 45 minutes together i know a lot of people that attend live i move pretty quickly it's an intermediate level class um they will come back and watch this in the archives it's usually um posted within a few hours i also do trade mini management sessions and we typically see about one a week we're waiting for one to post probably later today okay so um if you've got questions go ahead and type them into the chat and i'll do my best to answer them i would expect that i will have someone joining me in the chat shortly um and then if you've uh you're in the archives you can just type your questions into the comment section down below if you love the class you can type that in as well in addition i know many of you already follow me on twitter at the armstrong underscore tda if you don't you might want to reconsider it's a free resource and i'm posting stuff on a daily basis so um things like um you know i just i post every six weeks or so i've posted these before but if you're newer to tr um if you're newer to the world of can i use my words here today technical analysis these candlestick stick charts um i post um you know they i used to have them in in plastic sheets and and hung up on my wall and there's three of them the other thing that i post on a regular basis is some think or swim tips and then i'll also post well i post a quote every morning but i'll also post charts so here is mondelez we might want to have a look at mondelez today so let me re add that one to my list but we're seeing a lot of you know inverted head and shoulders type patterns um that kind of thing and none of these are recommendations but they're just kind of observations on kind of what's going on in the market isrg kind of similar oh maybe we add that one to our list i've already got it on my list um for one to potentially look at today and then there was our crocs we used to talk about crocs a lot just came with earnings i posted this prior to earnings this little sucker's gone up 66 um you know since uh the beginning of july a cup and handle pattern or a double bottom um you know technical analysis can be a bit of a rorschach test in any event back to our regular programming um let's get through our important information so that we can get out to the platform uh where we can make that the magic happen okay so um know that everything we do in this class is for education and informational purposes only none of it is to be construed as a recommendation on the part of td ameritrade or myself know that options are not suitable for all investors there are special risks inherent to options trading that can lead to potentially rapid and substantial losses we have seen some of that in this account this year um if there's anyone here for the very first time i'd love it if you could just type a greeting into the chat so that we can welcome you but know that if you're new to td ameritrade you also have to apply for option trading privileges and not all will qualify um and know that in this class we use the paper money platform on think or swim looks like smells like feels like real money it's a great place to master your skills or master a new trading strategy um it's a great place to practice there are a couple of differences the biggest or one of the biggest ones in my opinion is that a short option will never be assigned early and we do a lot of spread trades so that's important for us to understand can that happen in our live account you know can it be assigned prior to expiration yes have i seen that happen yes um did it kind of freak me out the first time it happened yes but if we know that that's a possibility then you know we'll we'll know what to do when it happens okay and know that when we use stops it's not a guarantee that we're going to get out at a particular price if it's a stock market order once it's activated it will compete with other incoming market orders okay so we've got ken rose with us in the chat great to have ken on board with us he brings a wealth of experience his um twitter handle is at k rose underscore tda and he and i both post a lot of helpful content on a daily basis so what's on the menu for today it looks surprisingly similar this agenda every week you know we're going to have a quick look at what's going on in the market then we're going to um and and i may flip this and play some new trades first but we've got a couple of trades we might want to manage and i treat this as a companion class to the long options class that i teach every monday also for the last two weeks and the next two weeks i'm i'm filling in for mr john mcnichol his swing trading class at three o'clock eastern on tuesdays and if we have a fit and can add things to the portfolio so i invite you to join us for that swing trading on tuesdays as well and so we've got a couple of trades to manage but we're going to spend the majority of the class looking at new trades we placed a number of trades in the long options class on monday and we'll manage those um on monday okay okay so that's that let's get out to the platform and see what's cooking with the market today look at that okay we're gonna come back to crocs we haven't looked at crocs in a very long time okay so the s p 500 also if you're new to this class just so you know i can point this out we started the year with twenty thousand dollars we're now you know a stone's throw away from thirty one thousand so we're up over fifty percent in this account here today so have we only had winning trades no we've actually had a lot of oh sorry let me uh fix my screen we've actually had a number of trades where we've taken a max loss but you know what we have position sized appropriately we have a position size to cro appropriately just hold one set that fixed the screen there we go so um you know even though we've had some losses what we've really done is we have focused on base hits this year more than any other year i think because there's been so much volatility in the market we've said we have no idea what trend the market may be adding in three months from now but so far we're feeling okay um about what the what a particular stock might do in the next week or in the next few days and so we placed a our focus this year has been on a much shorter term trades and that has as it would turn out has worked out well for us um and you know to be up 50 part way through the year is i think stellar in any year but particularly in a year like this when we had just an absolutely wretched first half of the year if you're bullish and a lot of people know how to trade options but they might you know have a large account and and want to have the majority of it invested in longer term trend trading stock type investment or you know some type of of um some type of fund that represents a certain segment of the market and this year that's been pretty testy to do that we look at year-to-date the market is still down 14 although i don't know why i keep getting that line let me just get rid of it so but as we can see you know it it has turned around since the middle of june and started up trending and it got rate you know the s p today it got right up to this 4180ish line or to this diagonal resistance line and it seems to be pulling back now it's done that a couple of times you know it came up hit this line pulled back for two days hit the line pulling back but you know this candle we're very very early in the day who knows where it could be you know yeah somebody just saw we saw an alert on um southern we placed a trade in the i was filling in for john mcnichol yesterday for jo long verticals okay so that's that one so uptrending you know and and the optimus you know or the bulls in the crowd might say well you know it it's up trending now and we're seeing um you know it coming up and retesting this line again potentially now it could come all the way back down here we don't know but we're seeing an uptrend now not out of the woods yet necessarily the um nasdaq of course that's our tech heavy index still down 20 so the overall trend year to date so the intermediate and longer term trend is uh bearish but what we've seen since the middle of june is is a resurgence in this index as well and if we come and we we pull out our drawing tool and again does this mean the bears have been banished to the woods not necessarily um but we're up 18 from our bottom but still down 20 from where we were at the beginning of the year so you know we've got a shorter term uptrend although it is pulling back today down 1.2 but it just broke through this kind of significant support level around the 12 900 level next level would be around maybe this thirteen five forty six or five fifty okay um how about the russell this is our small caps small caps of you know similar right like down 17 in in between the s p and the nasdaq so worse than the s p better than the nasdaq but again we're seeing this uptrend since the middle of of june and it's broken through this diagonal resistance line and is bonking its head here around this 1917 mark also it's broken out of this downtrending channel which some would argue is bullish also so also can see that as a good sign now the dow and the dow this is based on the price of the stock the dow 30 um and and we're seeing you know a big downward channel here still down over 10 year-to-date but you know the best of the worst you could say and again up trending and sitting like the others raid up around this resistance line but i i would note it's still within this downward channel and so with the dow i think the big thing is will it come and break above this line and show that it's kind of breaking out of this downward channel ah the jury's still up and when we come when we look at the vix it has been downtrending you know since the middle of june and that's what we'd expect since the market's been up trending so it's been pretty consistent with what we might expect in relation to the market okay right so that's the scoop there and when we look at some indices like tech um given that you know we just looked at the nasdaq and and it's pretty tech heavy almost half of its tech or in the neighborhood of half of its tech are we surprised to see that since the middle of june this has been actually one of the leading indexes okay all righty okay so let's go and look at a couple of stalks so one that that we could look at is crocs now crocs last two years we've talked a lot about not walking the crocs um you know and and i shared the story that i wanted a pair of crocs for christmas and my children refused to buy them to me i i said you know i think crocs go well with a robe and a shovel on my way to the hot tub i promised them i wouldn't wear them out of the yard this is a pretty bullish configuration and this is a 70 dollar stock and just came with earnings of 324 their forward guidance wasn't as robust as the market was looking for they're still growing but the market didn't take kindly to it yesterday but we can see that it's rebounding and um you know so could we add crocs to our portfolio why would we want to do that well if we look at this this thing has a p e ratio of six you know it's it's really um definitely in that value category now we have in this account um 25 of our 31 000 is sitting in cash and so if we wanted to add a position our our max position size allowed in this account is 5 000 so we could say well how many shares could we buy if we just wanted to add a position um and you know we haven't bought a lot of stocks in this account this year in years past we have um but if we looked at this and said okay 63 66 it's currently trading at 70. i wanted to buy 5 000 worth divided by 70. how many could i buy you could buy 71.
so let's make it 70 so if we bought 70 shares and then we said okay if we put our support three percent below this 6366 level so if we bought 70 shares i just wanted to show you that we can buy a stock in this class um and i'm just going to use my desk calculator 6366 times 0.97 our stock would be at 61.75 okay so at 61.75 [Applause] um and if we're paying 70 dollars okay 7038 minus 61 75 i actually wasn't planning on doing this until i got here we're risking 863. so if we can risk 500.
we might not be able to buy 500 shares so 500 divided by 863. it says we could buy 57. we can buy 58 shares okay so okay we could be a little aggressive let's round it up to 60. well it doesn't really matter we can't you know we can't do a covered call on this or you know add to this position but so we'll do we'll do our 58 shares we'll make it totally legit now just because we're putting a stop in doesn't mean it doesn't guarantee that we're going to get out at that price does it um it's going to trigger a market order if this were to gap down we could end up out at a lower price 61 75 okay good till cancelled i'm gonna make this what was our number again 50 58 shares 58 shares okay now let's say you're more interested just in a short term game because this would be a trend trade 58 i'm clicking this little it looks to me like a firecracker and then when you hit it it looks like a paperclip now when i hit enter i don't know why that isn't it's weird okay so i'll just adjust it manually okay okay so um our total investment is four thousand uh i don't know if we still do we still have a trend trading growth stock category it's kind of down at the bottom there we go so we're going to put that in now what if we said well we've done a lot of long call verticals and those have been pretty successful wouldn't we have an entry on that and we would and it's now after earnings so you know this is still considered to be a pretty volatile stock like because september 16 expiration has a 60 so what does that mean well it means that our um options are pretty rich um is so but you know could we do a long call vertical on this and maybe make some short term money so if we looked at it's trading at 7072 could we come out and buy a vertical at 225 how much could we make well ultimately we could make 275 on this if we thought it was going to go above 75. and what we've been doing in this class is saying you know what if we have a 50 gain i'm kind of happy with that um and so how would we calculate that we take our 225 and we multiply that by 1.5
and say okay if it's worth about 337 we could make it 340 um we'd be happy and we'd exit the position um you know so and and what would be the max gain would be is if it hit um five dollars but so and i was asked yesterday because i i sub for a long vertical class why didn't you put in an exit and we can do that also one thing i will tell you is you have to make sure with the second order um that you make it a stop order so we're going to make this one at um let me just double check that because the price keeps changing okay so when it's worth say 355 we're going to exit now what if we're wrong and what if this doesn't continue to go up well if we get to the point where it's worth half as much say a dollar 20 we could exit this position and you'll notice here i didn't have both um orders with the same expiration so or time in force is what they call it so we're going to make both of these and then this limit order because this says hey get me a dollar 20 or better so if i leave it like this as soon as i get in i'll get out so we want to make this a stop market order that says hey if it gets down to the point where it's only worth a dollar 20 then exit the position and how many are are we going to do well we can risk up to 500 now you might say well we're really risking only a dollar 20. yeah but there's no guarantee we'll get out so if we want to err on the side of being conservative then we're going to say it could be a a max loss okay and and that's that's my choice in this account it served us well so far but you know we could do it a different way you know we could take double the number of positions but then if this were to gap dramatically we could lose more than we're comfortable losing so confirm and send this is saying we're risking 480 that's our theoretical max loss do we intend to be in here long enough to get our max profit no we're saying hey if we get about half that we'd be we'd be happy okay okay so we're gonna put that in our long call vertical bucket so there's a nod to crocs we haven't talked about crocs in a very long time okay so fire in the hall okay so there's our trade on crocs let's go and look at airbnb oh now it's pulling back so here's one you know where we've seen a diagonal resistance breakout we're on the other side of earnings so that's you know in it and it beat on earnings yesterday it was up today so far it's pulling back so maybe we'll come and look at this one again on monday another pattern that is setting up but that we don't see you know complete yet is for it to break above here kind of uh an inverse cup and handle pattern but you know we're we'd be looking for it to break above this level also okay so that's airbnb autodesk oh when we bought our crocs yay um you know so with autodesk we've got earnings coming up here and today it looks like the market is kind of pausing and you know we understand and respect that it's not a totally um drawn out you know double bottom but we're seeing this basing pattern it's come it's broken above and you know if we looked at this and said you know could this be a potential for a long call vertical why wouldn't we do a short put vertical well earnings on this is august 24th and if you know it would we'd want to be out of this before we got to the 24th and um premiums tend to go up as we approach earnings and so it would be a harder position to exit it from a short put vertical perspective where with a long call vertical we might be able to get in and then out again a little faster so i'm going to just put a star beside that one because this this support level is still holding but it has pulled back a bit today so we might wait and and look at that one on monday also interesting now if you were more aggressive you could say you know what i think this looks solid and i'm going to go ahead and put this trade in and you know it just depends on your comfort level with risk um you know because you could say well if i get in now then when it goes back up this five dollars then i'm already through my strike well let's go look at that so if we came out to september it's at 2 17. one thing you know we've got 10 wide strikes here and so this might and you know we've got 231 contracts and you know we've got over a dollar but just over a dollar and this is a 17 strike we might say well could we look at something a little shorter term and will that give us tighter strike strike options it will but then when we come in here and you know we've got a similar bid ask spread about a buck but we don't have much volume and so especially as we go to approach earnings if we want to exit the position you know there are less people actively trading the weeklies on this and so you know for our class if we're saying well we're only willing to risk up to five hundred dollars we'd probably be risking all of that so if we look at this oh i'm in october sorry i don't want to be in october i want to be in september i still only have ten dollar wide strikes here and i still don't have much volume here so let's look at this ten dollar wide strike 210 and if we do the 210 and the 220 it's already most of the way through it's already you know at 217 so it only has to go up so this is 555 so we'd be risking over 500. so we couldn't do this because we're risking technically 555 even if we put an exit in now could we go out further we could but that's a more aggressive trade could we do the 220 and the 230 yes but it's not even at 220 yet so we're going to pass on that one somebody typed into the chat pass there's another one that i was looking at and thought oh may not be ready yet and that was electronic arts and electronic arts like this is and now we know why why we passed on this when we looked at this maybe yesterday um because i get asked a lot like how do you find the the choices that you make um the stocks that you use as examples so i was looking at this one another like inverted head and shoulders pattern looks lovely and you know what someone that was being aggressive on this day on wednesday might have said you know what it's peaking above i'm just gonna go for it and then what happened now it's pulling back and so that would take that that smile and go oops maybe i got in a little early so we don't have that you know the breakout that we're looking for yet and might we get it we might might it never come might not we could end up it could come and end up you know with another head and shoulders pattern or on monday it could bust through like who knows but it's not there yet so we do we trade what we think is going to happen no we trade what we we see you know on the charts where we we've got some confirmation okay so let's look at amazon oh let me just make sure we did now amazon we actually put a trade on in in this account oh it's way up here we've got lots of stuff going on so we put a trade on in this account and we said hey if this oh yeah we're up a whopping 15 and so you know if you didn't join me in yesterday's long vertical we did a 140 and a 140 250 um we did a long call vertical and you know we put in an exit um you know just above 50 to get out if we gain 50 percent and so you might want to add that to the account um the paper money your paper money account if you didn't place that trade and when we looked at amazon it was continuing up yesterday starting to pull back and are we surprised at that no you know it it it's been creating this lovely bull flag pattern came up for two days the market's pulling back who knows well where will be by the end of the day okay let's look at docusign docusign and it's interesting because you know this stock really soared during the pandemic but i used docusign when i moved from michigan to salt lake city and you know i don't see that um the need for the type of services that docusign provides is going to go away but this stock has been absolutely clobbered this is a year to date i'm sorry and if we look at how the stock is done year to date you know down 55 but this isn't an inverted head and shoulders pattern but we see in a pennant pattern where it's broken to the upside and so if we wanted to do a long call or a long call vertical you know with this one at once again we'd want to wait until we saw it moving moving back up to the upside so it's broken out and so we could put an alert in here somebody asked me how to get these alerts on so if we say okay here's this current ceiling around this 71 so let's create an alert and say hey if this goes above that 70 118 um you know perhaps at a long call vertical or you know a long call and and you might want to do a long call with a short target like a a one atr target so we don't know how long um this will work and and you know what i'm putting this on in on the paper side but you know when i do this um it it will come to my email or my you know text to however i've set it up it works because i put most of my alerts on on the paper money side and we can see this is a 70 stock it's only down by 29 cents if we really wanted to do a trade and said like hey i'm going on vacation next week but i'd like this setup to be in here we could say hey you know what yesterday's high was 7166 so if it hit 71.86
i'd like to do this trade um so i'll just show give you an example here of how we could put that in ahead of time so if we came to our trade tab and we said okay um here's docusign here's september we got a tight bid ask spread well 40 cents but we got lots of volume we do um and so if we look at it's trading at 71 um and we've got a 250 wide spread what would we be paying for that now well if we bought a vertical we'd be about a dollar 20. so about a 50 you know there's about room here because the most we could make is 250 that would be a hundred percent gain so we could put in our exits after we could end and we could just say we want to make this a market order to get in and we know it's going to be above a dollar 30 but what if it's a buck 50 would we still be okay with that we would um and let's say we're going to do three of these and we're going to make it a market order good till canceled and we want to get in when docusign goes at or above uh 7186 and we'll look at this one again on monday at the end of the long options class just to to check on it this isn't a set it and forget it because if this pulls back for a couple of days and then starts to move to the outs upside we might want to get in there um we might want to you know change our entry and that's totally legitimate too so we're going to t this one up i'm going to make a note here this is conditional and so this is a conditional entry and this is a pennant breakout pattern okay so there we go we teed that one up and then when it fills we would go back in and add a target in an exit okay a couple of others i wanted to have a little peek at so idex does this look like a familiar pattern we're seeing an awful lot of these aren't we so you know an inverted head and shoulders type pattern and it broke above and now it's sitting just below so you know here's another one that we may want to you know add to our list to look at again on monday or this is one you could say hey you know it went up to 406. so you might say hey if this goes above 406 then get me back in and we could do a long call vertical on that but you then you might say well first of all are the badass spreads ten dollars yeah so you're that just may not be in our snack bracket and actually the bit ass spreads on these are really wide you could drive a truck through that we just don't have enough volume here twenty dollars and twenty nine dollars yeah yeah that's not happening okay i'm gonna just put a line through that one um and we'll look at one other one and then i want to just review a couple of trades so clap clack pulling back today too but again does this pattern not look familiar you know kind of this it's been trading in this range broken out come back to retest and this line is holding and even though it's down a little bit today um you know this line is holding and so if we looked at that and said okay given that this line is holding and some might say you know i i kind of drew another line in here they might have drawn their drawing tool here you know to say i see it breaking above this pattern back here i went kind of back a little further but if we see this as a solid pattern now some might say okay well this is a lower day you know i don't want to take that risk and others and say well it's still on the other side of both this line and this line let's see what the options might show for us um chuck is asking why a vertical and not a one atr trade now that's a really good question and it's because of the snack bracket we're in here this is almost 400 this stock so you know when we come and we look at it a single option out in september you know 21 to 24 dollars and this one here's another one it's like what's going on today you know this is almost a three dollar that's a 15 bit ask spread so you might say well this might look interesting but the bid ask spread is a little wider than we want to see but if we wanted to just buy a call that would be over two thousand dollars and our max um this is just not in our snack bracket but if we were to turn it into a vertical which we're not going to do because the bid ask spread is too wide and it doesn't meet our for this class our bid ask spread parameters it's five dollars and ten cents so you know we could afford a five hundred dollar risk a two thousand dollar risk we can't afford okay so i just i want to take a minute now to go and look at um oh i had a star beside mondelez i can't resist guys mondelez here's another one you know this is one of the ones that we looked at right that had broken out and it's now retesting this support level and so another one on our list you know to see lovely looking inverted head and shoulders just want to make sure that this um old resistance is going to hold as new support and this is kind of a big fat candle today yeah yeah great that it's a good question chuck that was a good question um yeah okay so let's go and look at our monitor tab on the calls we're going to look at on monday so we did this trade on amazon we put that on yesterday we did three trades in in that long vertical class last week and we got into all of them on thursday we were out of all of them by either friday or monday they all hit our target we just placed this trade on crocs we're up almost seven percent on that 30 bucks and then we have one queued up on docusign that we are not in yet because it hasn't reached our threshold we also did one on netflix and you know we're at par on this one on netflix the 225 and the 230 strike so watch something on netflix to support your paper trade this weekend but again you know a basing pattern it broke out and our strikes are at 225 and if you want to draw that on the chart i tend to just draw the top one 225 and 230 so the way that i tend to do it because i'm always in a hurry is i just draw a line and then i edit the properties and make it 230 so the one at the top because i ultimately we want it to go above both strikes so this is a long call vertical with a 225 and a 230 strike expiring in september and then we're going to show that on the right and so right when we look at this we can see we can see our trade and then if we want we could also you know oops we could also put a circle around when we entered that trade and this one we we got into that one i think yesterday there we go so that was netflix if you wanted to follow along we're basically at the same price we're not either up or down on this one so the 225 and the 230 and then we had done a trade on southern that we got in and out of very quickly so we decided we would place another trade on southern at this 77 50 and the 80 strikes and southern is pulling back today so we're down 17 on that one and here are our verticals here and it's come back to kind of retest this old support level now one thing that we didn't do yesterday but that we could change our mind on um and is add and exit so we put in an alert on this to say if it goes below a certain level let us know but i just wanted to show you how you can change an order and then that will have to be our wrap for today so when we put this in we said okay um we want to get out when it's worth a dollar 85 so this is southern 1.85 so we are going to cancel that we're just going to cancel it okay so there went the order for southern and now we're going to come back to our monitor tab and say well i'd like to put in something just in case maybe you're you are going on vacation just in case this goes wrong to say hey if this gets to the point where it's worth 60 cents i'd rather not lose the max amount so i'm going to right click create a closing order to sell and we're going to make this an oco order and so i'm going to create a duplicate order okay we're going to make both of these good till cancel in the first order we want to stay the same if it gets to a dollar 85 we want out or if it gets to sixty cents we want out and remember with the stop order it's a stop because otherwise it would immediately trigger the order to get out so confirm and send this is an osio order to close it when it either hits our target or if it comes down and hits our straw okay okay so we've teed that up all righty well that's a wrap for today so we showed how to change in um an exit order we added a stock order which we haven't done in a long time on crocs then we did a long um vertical on crocs and then we added a long vertical we teed up a long vertical on docusign as well so there is a survey in the chat let me just come back over here to our powerpoint so we've done what we set out to do we've had a quick look at the market we've looked at managing some of our trades we placed some new example trades so here's what i'm asking from you my friends is there's a survey in the chat and ken has just reposted it if you're with us live it is super quick um they've made it faster than last year last year there were four questions now we're down to three um but you know it goes from kind of one which was this was awful i'm never going to get this 45 minutes of my life back and i'm never coming again to 10 which it was the bomb.com and i'm never going to miss another one and everything in between um but the more important part from my perspective is that you can put in comments so let me know what you love let me know what you'd like to see more of or less of if they're topics or trading styles that we haven't covered that you'd like to cover if you've got questions go ahead and ask them if you are in watching this in the archives you can give me feedback just by typing it into the comment section so um there's that and then ap 5 14 has reminded me to remind you if you found this valuable please hit the like button um and if you haven't subscribed to this channel and you think that we're you know the kind of people that you'd like to hang out with on a regular basis like you're going to want to subscribe so there's a subscribe button over there hit it um you can turn on notifications and get a reminder of when this class is happening would love to see you with us again next friday so that's that keep in mind that everything we do in this class is for education and information purposes only none of it is to be construed as a recommendation on the part of td ameritrade or myself um and what else options not suitable for everyone's stops aren't a guarantee that we're gonna get out and you know with um long call verticals and with other spread trades there is a short component and that can be exercised at any time so we have to be aware of that so huge thank you to ken you guys always keep him super busy in the chat have an absolutely awesome weekend everyone and i will look forward to seeing you in a webcast coming up soon up next at the top of the hour is connie hill with getting started with stock investing take care everyone bye for now