Should You Buy An Existing Business? - Andrew Gazdecki

legitimately just wanted to help like if you had a business and you wanted to sell it it's a confusing process and so i wanted to educate entrepreneurs that you know there's an easier you know more efficient way to meet buyers than the traditional routes the place i would start if you're if you're looking to think about markets and market timing is think about what the world is going to look like in two years uh what it looks like today [Music] welcome to another episode of the dan lok show today i have the founder of microacquire with me on the show today i am so excited because i've been actually watching the platform and growing and growing and it's such an interesting idea so having andrew on the show i mean i'm excited so andrew welcome welcome to the dan lok show thanks dan excited to be here appreciate you inviting me i always want to go back to the limited history what inspired you to start this particular business and when did you start it good question so probably dates back a decade ago so i started a business called business apps in college i grew that to about a little over 10 million in revenue and then sold that to a private equity firm which was a life-changing event sold it when i was 29 started when i was 21. uh that we can dive into that which was just a crazy experience and then after that i started another company um a blockchain trading company called altcoin which was also acquired by a strategic buyer being k to the future and so after that i was actually looking to buy a sas company myself i thought you know i i don't want to spend two years with an idea that might not work out my background is mostly in sales marketing just growth strategy stuff that's what i really enjoy and so i looked at the market though and it just was this really fragmented market full of brokers and investment bankers that really favored buyers and so i just thought there was an opportunity to remove the middleman um and let buyers and founders connect directly to other companies and for our audience our listeners maybe explain to us what is the current model for microacquire yeah so acquire is a marketplace where you can buy startups you can buy sas startups you can buy ecommerce startups direct to consumer mobile app startups there's even some crypto startups there's about 400 startups live we've done about 300 acquisitions but in terms of the business model typically when you go to sell your business you'll work with an investment banker or a broker and they'll charge a large commission fee so that can range from five percent to ten percent and mike require does this for free so you can sell your business on mike require 100 free for founders no fees no commissions no exclusivity and then our business model uh which kind of has a funny side note to it is we just charge buyers a small fee to be able to contact the sellers so all the information is also private so you're not listing your company on craigslist you know going through a few acquisitions when your team finds out that you're selling your company you kind of get reactions that range from am i becoming a millionaire or it might be am i gonna get fired yeah yeah so you gotta deal with all that so it's a private network um and micro required premium is just an annual subscription um i manually verify each buyer to keep the quality high and uh yeah it's just a marketplace that you know puts entrepreneurs in control when selling their businesses and andrew in the beginning how did you get traction because as a marketplace is now you have buyers and sellers it's not like an ecommerce business right you have you have to create demand you have to create a lot a lot of it's both right you want you don't want to have too many sellers none of buyers you don't have too many buyers and none of sellers that's not good either so in the beginning what did you focus on to just get the initial attraction yeah that's a great question so when you're building a marketplace you want to focus on the hardest side of the market first and so the hardest side really is getting startups getting them comfortable listing key financial metrics and everything a buyer would need to make an assessment on if this is a good acquisition opportunity so i started focusing on founders first and so i took two 300 phone calls i know that's kind of old school but i always recommend entrepreneurs to pick up the phone talk to people you know build relationships so that was the initial you know i guess pre-launch of mike require right so you were just cold calling these like founders so i would cold email them schedule a phone call talk about if they were interested in selling their business and then this is when mike require was like an mvp and so i would onboard them by hand we have a much more streamlined process now but yeah it was really kind of scrappy um got featured in a few um news outlets and that helped kind of bring you know buyers to the marketplace and now we just have a flywheel effect that's really just driven through word of mouth have you done any kind of uh pay advertising or anything that uh you used to attract like say buyers or sellers consistently anything yeah we do we just started running like a light facebook ad campaign we use adroll for retargeting i bought ad placements in areas that you know have good pockets of entrepreneurs such as product time dig nothing major and i think that's also key when building a business is my focus with mike require was really to build a very capital efficient business so really most of it's just me marketing the business telling the story uh building the brand um and that's that's really the best way to to build a company in my opinion is you know letting customers share success stories so that's another part i focus heavily on is you know when founders get acquired like let's tell that story and let's inspire other entrepreneurs to show that they can you know get acquired too what well when did you had the first user just did this do a successful transaction let's say they sold the business what was that like i i actually remember that that's a great question so it was it was a small company so for context for the listeners there's acquisitions that you can you can do that our company's valued at say 25 000 all the way up to two three four five million now but in the beginning it was smaller startups so yeah there was this moment i was actually on vacation this was before the pandemic started i launched a business in january of 2020 and someone emailed me and they just said hey we found a buyer and there's a ton of different people reaching out and submitting lois and then i remember that moment i was like this this works like you know so and another thing dan is um you know i've shared this publicly but when i first launched microcore i wasn't sure if it was gonna work yes just me as an entrepreneur i just felt this needed to exist because everyone has those moments where they're you know maybe they just want to see what buyers will pay for their business um maybe you just want to you know exit the business quickly whatever that is um removing all that friction from the market um is what mike require does so i really just built what i felt needed to exist so when that when that first deal closed yeah it works this is the validation right yeah it was exciting i mean i you know obviously asked if i can get a referral from the person and obviously talk to him and got feedback on the product what worked what didn't work and um that's also how i kind of build my requires well it's just through a lot of feedback from users but i do think that because andrew with your background because you are you are the customer right you're looking for deals and at the same time you've done multiple exits so you kind of know what what buyers want and what sellers want and it's interesting how you you're creating a platform based on i think he's what i want to see right here's what i think i would like to see and i don't want to pay the 5 10 fee to somebody else when you were talking to founders do you find that they are very receptive to the idea like hey this is great like wow like oh do you need a lot of convincing when you were just talking to him on the phone that's a good question some yeah i mean not every founder is ready to sell i think that's the key point there and you really just need to be in a place more mentally i think like it just depends where the founder is in their journey some are ready to exit right away some are you know they they want to build a billion dollar business they're going to run it for the next decade um so you know a mixture of conversations some were thrilled some are like oh i've been working on this but i have another idea i'd like to potentially start working on and i can use the sale of seed capital or i don't even focus on that startup anymore i'd love to sell it and then others are like we're growing so fast that maybe follow up in a year so it'd be a mix but you know i think just having those conversations with early founders in terms of validating if they would be willing to work with a marketplace like microcoil was was key because i would gather that feedback and i would understand you know what would make them comfortable um you know what sort of privacy settings you know how can i best position their startup to buyers to actually attract interest so yeah it was it was a mixed bag and it still is today and for i want to deep on a deep dive a little bit in on the buy and seller side so let's say for someone looking to sell the the ecom business or the sas what do they need to do to prepare so that a buyer would be interested like how do they prepare in terms of uh what systems they need in place or financials like to have the highest probability of a successful exit that's a great question so the first thing i would say there is just having a good business you know if it's growing specifically if it's profitable those are really good acquisition targets and there's a lot of buyers in the market that are looking for profitable sas e-commerce direct-to-consumer etc businesses to acquire but in terms of preparing um it's pretty simple on mic require so if you use stripe or chart mobile or baremetrics or any of the other billing systems we integrate that directly like api just like integrate that yeah so we can show this like beautiful graph to buyers and it's it's read only so you don't share your customers you don't share any sensitive data but you're able to prove to buyers that this is my revenue you're able to connect google analytics to show search traffic but other things you know having proper legal counsel i always recommend and really just having your books together do you have a proper p l um do you have a valid reason for selling um because that's my first question is you know why are you looking to sell this business what is an ideal outcome look like for you that kind of goes into the relationship part of when selling your business um but yeah key things is just you know when you sign up a microchoir we help improve and position every every seller profile so it's appealing to buyers really highlighting the metrics that buyers will care about which is you know you're trailing 12 months revenue you're trailing 12 months profit what's the tech stack who's maintaining the code how much customer support is required to operate the business just so the buyer has an understanding of is this going to take a lot of time little time is there growth opportunities and we create a buyer presentation and then you go live by mike require but yeah just having a good business um being able to show you know proper financials um you know good p l is is key and what's the the ratio right now in terms of like how many buyers and how many sellers you have on the platform so right now there's about 50 000 buyers on the platform okay and there's about 400 startups and then out of those 400 startups that are live i probably approve one and ten so i'm pretty picky in terms of the quality of the startups that go live on microchoir every startup is manually approved by my team so again we'll go through the profile we'll make everything look as best as we can so when it's presented to buyers it's attractive um but yeah it's it's definitely a a good time to be an entrepreneur that's for sure i'm also curious how did you make the the founders or the sellers feel at ease because it is still quite a bit of information right stripe hooked up and integration like it's a lot of like private information like how do you how do you convince them to say hey you know you trust us it's okay you know you can you can share some of these data with potential buyers that's a good question uh i don't really know how um i would say i'm just i try to be as transparent as possible if you follow me on twitter you follow me on linkedin as i've been building microacquire i've kind of brought people along the journey with the success stories the growth and i think that really builds a lot of trust with entrepreneurs because with branding today people don't want to work directly with a company they want to work with an individual that they trust and so i think having a focus on brand and storytelling has really helped with trust okay um and then just being transparent with the market in terms of you know these deals are closing or positive testimonials from other customers or founders exiting their business but it's it's always a challenge i mean i just think of it from if i was in the founders perspective like this is a very this is sensitive information um i would definitely have some questions so i'm always open to hop on phone calls walk through how the product works um share you know success stories and stuff like that but um yeah i think it really just comes down to just you know really letting entrepreneurs that know that my goal is to this is uh kind of i was telling someone this the other day but my goal with mike require is to create a thousand millionaires by them exiting through microcoils so i think just understanding how entrepreneurs think especially from an emotional standpoint you know it's a big transaction it's potentially life-changing for them and i i've been through that and so i think that helps a little bit too are they all looking do they have to be profitable in order to be listed on microacquire no there's a lot of venture backed businesses as well those would typically be good purchases for you know a private equity firm that is able if it's losing cash flow then you know there's going to be a lot of retooling of expenses to bring the business of profitability or back on a growth trajectory but no there's businesses being ran at breakeven those are ones that are focusing on growth and then there's ones that are highly profitable and those ones sell and get acquired the fastest and then there are a few venture backed companies where you know it just didn't work out they weren't able to kind of get on that you know unicorn trajectory and so they're looking which what everybody wants yeah but you know the reality is is 90 plus of startups failing of course startups are really really really hard to make work and so you know some people are very happy running a 5 10 million dollar business a year some people want to build a billion dollar empire that goes public and so my favorite part about microfire is when i hear stories of a founder that builds something to maybe a few hundred thousand in revenue or let's call it a million but they want to go they want to build something bigger and so they're able to sell that business to someone who's thrilled they're thrilled to run a one or two or five million dollar business yes and then that founder can then go on and take another swing at something bigger yes a few months ago i was talking to a founder looking to sell and was looking the deal and he was telling me say dan my sweet spot is to zero to one million i don't want a big business i don't want anything like that i'm happy being a creative guy i'm a tech person i want to grow something take a technology zero to one million one million revenue i sell that and i go do something else so he knows that's what he's comfortable with he's not interested in in building a massive team so every entrepreneurs want different things andrew what about in terms of someone buying acquiring a business what advice you have for them how do they make sure they don't get burned how do they make sure that they are getting a good deal what advice would you have for buyers yeah that's another great question so microcar also has an integrated m a advisor directory so if you're a first time buyer and you're looking at a one two million dollar deal or even something smaller half a million yeah we have a directory of m a advisors that have transacted you know hundreds of deals ranging from 100 000 to upwards of 100 million so you can hire those individuals hourly or at a fixed rate just to kind of guide you through the process like what is due diligence what are some things that are red flags how can we make sure that transition goes properly how should we structure this deal how should we value this company um so i recommend that i also write about these topics a lot so there's a lot of resources on mic require for you to learn yes but my best advice is starting small like if you're looking to acquire businesses there's great businesses that might require that you know they're making that's called ten thousand a year you can acquire them for thirty thousand which is just you know revenue times three they're great products they have happy customers enough where you can you know product market fit is there but you can go through the motions you can go through submitting a letter of intent signing an asset purchase agreement going through the transfer and then you know getting your yourself comfortable so when you look at some larger businesses you've already kind of gone through the motions of an acquisition instead of you know failing on something big and then creating a bunch of mistakes there so i i'd say start small and step into it um and then educate yourself you know there's a lot of um resources on microcar that that buyers can check out so for microacquire uh how involved once you kind of hand off the the relationship kind of you make the connections and then they just kind of negotiate on their own this is how this works yeah so mike requires only role is we connect buyers with sellers i charge a fee and how much is the fee there's no fee there's no fee zero commission it's actually kind of funny so when i hear about acquisitions closing it's usually a founder will email me and they'll say hey um you know we'd like to remove our listing from microchoir and i'm like what happened is that are conversations going well with buyers they're like yeah we got a two million dollar loi and we're gonna move forward with it i'm like fantastic so i i respect the privacy of buyers and sellers i'm here if people have questions or just need support um but buyers are sophisticated and so are founders and so um all that happens outside of the platform interesting and it's i'm also i'm also curious because in the beginning your vision was to acquire a sas company for yourself and then you saw this need and then now you go build another sas company because it's based on right uh do you sometimes see deals through the platforms like yeah i like that deal maybe i i should i should find the deal myself oh literally all the time but what happened was you know and and candidly that was an idea for when i first launched micro park because i ran micro choir for free for 10 months just because i loved helping entrepreneurs i legitimately just wanted to help like if you had a business and you wanted to sell it it's a confusing process and so i wanted to educate entrepreneurs that you know there's an easier you know more efficient way to meet buyers than the traditional routes and yeah i mean i see great businesses all day so it's kind of you know tempting it's tempting yeah but the thing that is stopping me there is microfire is just growing so fast that i i i feel that the opportunity with mike require is probably larger than uh any business i can acquire and it's just so much fun to run my whole day i spend talking entrepreneurs running awesome businesses or buyers running awesome private equity groups or firms or strategic buyers or sometimes ceos of public companies so i get to meet a lot of really cool people and to me that that's enough as long as i'm having fun that's kind of my my barometer for success what's your vision for for the company like where is the company in let's say three to four years and i know that you want to disrupt the investment banking business like what's the vision for for microacquire yeah so going back to a previous question you had is how does a transaction happen so it happens outside of microchoir right now usually people will go and grab their own attorney they'll use that's right escrow.com for transfer all the services and like creating a data room i want to build all of those services into mike requires so you can have a full end-to-end platform where you can find a company to buy if you need some guidance you can hire an m a advisor to help guide you through that process have escrow built in so the assets of the business are securely transferred got it possibly even streamline legal dock creation like loi asset purchase agreement stock purchase agreement so i got i got some big plans in the works so but yeah the goal is to really to disrupt investment banking and give founders um a more efficient way to sell their businesses so right now it's a marketplace it's a almost like a highly trust directory but later on you kind of want to evolve that into some more ecosystem from kind of a to z that you can if someone goes there they want to buy they want to sell we can help you with this we can help you with this we can help you with this we can help you with this it's just all the add-on correct exactly like a good example would be as a founder you can go live at micro choir and you might not know how to communicate with buyers what do you say someone asked for a complicated financial question how do you answer that and right now in mike require you can hire advisors to bring into your deal and help you with those negotiations and help you communicate with buyers so the deal has a higher chance of closing and what's exciting about that is it also gives buyers more confidence knowing that there's a professional that's kind of helping in the middle but they're not taking huge commissions so it's still a win for founders where they're charging either a flat rate or an hourly rate because the traditional investment banking model works because they charge a really high commission because they take on a lot of startups but not all of them sell most investment banks have success rates of i don't know 30 percent i don't know the exact number off the top my head but they have huge fees because only a few of them will actually get acquired and they can get that fee but with microacquire i'm able to connect buyers and sellers much more efficiently and then at that point it's just kind of closing the deal it's just taking it from third base to home base does that make sense yeah faster easier cheaper solutions right that's what people want yeah that's also a great way to build a business and so that's the vision for the company uh i'm also curious with when you're growing it now before we jump on the show you're sharing with me now that the team is kind of lean right how many how many people you have on the team right now so right now it's mainly me running the whole thing so i've recently hired my old vp of marketing okay i've hired my entire development team full time previously they were just um contractors and i have a number of different people that i work with i recently hired an operations manager as well and i'm going to be hiring a vba product vp of engineering cfo all people that i've previously worked with in the past so really excited about that but yeah right now i'm doing the 4 a.m to 10 p.m work day just why did you keep it liens like in just because with your experience you could you could totally do it like much quicker or you put together team but why did you keep it lean and mean like what what what's what's what's the philosophy so i think capital efficient businesses are usually the best businesses to build because it allows you to really find product market fit without taking on let's say i raised a bunch of money for my requirement yes and i'm in a rush to charge commissions i'm in a rush to figure everything out you know you don't without that pressure you're able to move at a pace that i think leads to better products because yeah because you have to think creatively and you have to really talk with customers and really figure out what should be your priorities each week like what features are we building um you know what is a bottleneck for either buyers or sellers and so you know having a capital efficient business model also gives you a lot of freedom as well like i think for entrepreneurs listening to this and maybe you're running a startup and you're thinking you know let's go raise a bunch of venture capital and you know see if we can build something huge i would recommend to them is focus on customers first and be scrappy and you know talk to customers as much as possible then when you finally get product market fit and you start to see revenue growing in a repeatable fashion you might not want to raise money you might have of such a profitable business like you just mentioned your friend who has whose goals those businesses can sell for like 5-10 million bucks yeah that's life-changing money but when you bring on investors you push the goal post back so now if you sell for 10 million that's not really a success in the venture landscape so yeah i guess that was another aspect was i i'm a scrappy entrepreneur and i i didn't want to raise money initially doesn't mean that you won't in the future but you want to see how the product evolves and build the team and do it as a lean startup model as much as much as possible right yeah i think the best time to raise money is when you have a clear plan for how you're going to use the funds meaning if i take on this capital i am really confident i can at least 10x my business yeah so you literally because that's what venture capital is it's it's rocket fuel yeah if you put rocket fuel into a rocket that's not ready to take off it explodes so you know you know i might raise capital in the future i haven't ruled that out but the business right now is so profitable and it operates so efficiently that i might not ever need to and just another um side note too with business apps i bootstrapped that company i only raised um a hundred thousand dollars when i was 21. now how much and you sold for how much when you saw the company i have actually never publicly said okay okay i won't mention that but it was enough to make me happy i'll leave it at that it wasn't over that allowed me to move on to other ventures and not have to worry about finances got it got it got it and that's when and the second one you also saw it for is it's bigger or smaller than the first one so the second business i actually sold 12 months after the first acquisition okay okay so that acquisition was uh basically a bill to sell play i built i saw an opportunity in the market to build a piece of software that a larger strategic buyer would benefit okay yeah so i built it and then from first month i was communicating with potential buyers built the relationships early and that's another key if you're looking to sell your business is it can take a while so fostering those relationships and mapping out who could potentially buy this and so with altcoin when the product was at a point of maturity to where we felt it was a good time to sell it we reached out to the people that had expressed interest in potentially buying it and we sold that yeah pretty much 12 months after we um incorporated the business do you see microwave quiet do you see any other competitions in the marketplace that you see oh yeah that could be a competition that is doing something similar like what's going on with it like just the landscape um i mean it's really a market ruled by brokers and investment bankers right now there's a few other marketplaces that you can look at flippa is a good one um empire flippers is another one yes so there's a few out there and those are all great marketplaces and the way that mike require differentiates is we specifically focus on high quality software businesses and like no domains no content businesses no affiliate yeah those are great businesses i'm just i have a background in sas and that's um my domain knowledge is so that's what i i built a marketplace for um but it's kind of a blue ocean opportunity i don't expect that to last forever i think people are starting to realize that buying businesses or people interested in buying businesses is at a level that has never been seen before and so i'll probably see a spike after kovit was actually right at covet i and i don't know what caused it but my only assumption was people were taking money out of the market to put into businesses that were able to cash flow like alternative assets or alternative investments but yeah covet we definitely see do you see the hockey stick kind of things like that in the last 12 months obviously i i don't want to say you know i'm benefiting from such a you know bad time in the world but i think what it did is it just really accelerated you know typical acquisitions was steak dinner handshake stuff like that yeah so now it's online and people are comfortable with that and that's maybe another piece of advice for entrepreneurs listening is one of my thesis when building businesses is looking at building a business in an unobvious market that will become obvious over time so what do you mean by that expand on that so three examples um business apps was a mobile app builder for small businesses to quickly build native ios and android applications and okay as soon as i saw the iphone came out i thought every business is going to want to get on this phone that one was an obvious mark obvious problem in an obvious market so i kind of got lucky with that venture um all coin was a bet on the crypto markets um i thought this was an unobvious problem that would become obvious um i was semi-correct with that one because the crypto market's like 10 times what they were when i sold that business so maybe i should have held on to that yes and then with micro choir i felt that with so many entrepreneurs exiting businesses with companies going public and minting millionaires that there would be a large amount of individuals looking to acquire companies rather than start new companies almost as a new form of entrepreneurship it is it is yes and i've been very supportive of that as well yeah it's it really can be a great way to get an entrepreneurship especially if you're not technical or you don't have a good idea you can buy a business and apply what you're good at whether that's sales or marketing seo whatever that might be but i didn't think i was going to be right but i made a bet that this is a market that's not obvious today it's literally a startup that helps startups sell to other startups so it sounded kind of ridiculous but i thought you know people are gonna be looking to buy these businesses and i need to build a more efficient way of helping these businesses get acquired and that's what i did and then as mike require started to grow just the buyer pool just has exploded in the last 12 months so market timing is the number one reason for startup success so so you're almost saying that just to be almost a little bit early just a little or not too early but just early enough then when the problem becomes more obvious the demand becomes more obvious you've put yourself in a position to kind of capitalize on that right yeah i think if you look at some of the biggest companies around you'll notice that you know they started in a low tan market and then that market grew over time there's countless examples of that you know salesforce as an example they said every software solution is going to go to the cloud this thing called software as a service and they were right they made a bet on something unobvious like no you don't need to go come to my office install this software yeah this machine yeah yeah like you just access this from your computer and they made that bet early and they were obviously very right yes so yeah but look at what seems unobvious to everybody else but obvious to you and make a bet and then like another great example would be all of the entrepreneurs that made big bets on remote work being the future yes there was a big shift in the world over the past you know 12 14 months and they were they were right where you know remote that really just accelerated their businesses but that's one example off the top of my head but yeah and those are rounds a day and you can think about the place i would start if you're if you're looking to think about markets and market timing is think about what the world is going to look like in two years not what it looks like today so if you're building like remote tools and stuff like that you're in a very competitive market tons of other entrepreneurs are in there but you want to be looking at what's what is the next phase of sas or the next phase of software and build tools for that where do you see the south wall is going it's a great question i think there's a lot of opportunity in just data and analytics like a lot of stuff i think about with microwave as an example is no one really knows what a startup's worth like people have formulas they can kind of give you which are fairly accurate but with mike require i'm able to gather real market data so if you have a sas company doing a millionaire growing a twenty percent three percent churn i can show you with real market data what these businesses are really selling for today so i think that's interesting um anything in terms of automation i think you know if you look at any sort of use case with the an excel spreadsheet i think that's a business idea in the making um there's there's a ton machine learning ai that's a little too technical for me but i think machine learning has a lot of interesting use cases that we'll be seeing in the next you know two three four five years interesting because you when you see so many businesses you have insights about hey these are things that are kind of selling these are things that are that's kind of working you kind of have a little crystal ball just because you have so so many entrepreneurs and so so much data coming to you right i i do see a lot of startups uh that is definitely true and i think the most eye-opening part about microchoir is just how well entrepreneurs are doing that you just never hear about like you don't hear about again we'll go back to your example of your friend looking to build a million dollar business yeah he's not going to get featured in tech front no works he doesn't need to but then these entrepreneurs sell businesses for you know five million bucks and yeah you don't hear about them you don't hear about them you read about them you just do the thing and i would love for that to change i think that sort of entrepreneurship should be celebrated more where you own the majority of the business you built a profitable business there's a big difference between a business and a startup a startup in my mind is grow at all costs you know your only option is to exit the business you know you're never going to cash flow the business if you have investors on the balance sheet it depends on the situation but most times but when you own the majority of the business you can cash flow it you control you know your destiny um your entire you can do whatever you want you own the whole whole company you can sell it at any time yes and those are the entrepreneurs i i really admire and i i see a lot of them i love that i love that awesome andrew for our audience our listeners entrepreneurs are watching this listening to the show uh if they want to connect with you if they want to find out more about microacquired.com of course what's the

best way to connect or even if they want to list their businesses or they're looking for businesses to buy what are some of the options yeah just go to microacquire.com you can sign up as a seller or buyer happy to also answer emails to androidmicroacquire.com or follow me on twitter agasdeki um or on linkedin yes well andrew could still do this lena mean you can still connect when it gets bigger it's going to be hard now it's a good opportunity but i appreciate you i appreciate you on the show thanks dan i appreciate you having me on thank you

2021-05-02 10:33

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