Full debate: Pence, Harris face off in Salt Lake City
Um. Good evening. From the university, of utah, in salt lake city. Welcome, to the first, and only, vice presidential, debate, of 2020. Sponsored by the nonpartisan. Commission, on presidential, debates. I'm susan page of usa today. It is my honor, to moderate this debate. An important, part, of our democracy. In kingsbury, hall tonight we have a small. And socially, distant, audience. And we've taken extra precautions. During this pandemic. Among other things, everyone in the audience is required to wear a face mask, and the candidates. Will be seated 12 feet apart. The audience, is enthusiastic. About their candidates. But they've agreed to express, that enthusiasm. Only twice. At the end of the debate. And now, when i introduce the candidates. Please welcome. California, senator kamala harris, and vice president, mike. Pence. Thank. You. Senator, harris and vice president pence thank you for being here. We're meeting, as president trump and the first lady continue to undergo, treatment in washington. After testing positive for covet 19.. We send our thoughts and prayers to them for their rapid and complete recovery. And for the recovery, of everyone, afflicted, by the coronavirus. The two campaigns, in the commission on presidential, debates have agreed to the ground rules for tonight. I'm here, to enforce, them, on behalf, of the millions of americans, who are watching. One note, no one in either campaign. Or at the commission. Or anywhere else, has been told in advance, what topics i'll raise, or what questions, i'll ask. This 90-minute, debate will be divided, into nine, segments of about 10 minutes each, i'll begin a segment by posing a question. To each of you sometimes, the same question. Sometimes a different question, on the same topic. You will then have two minutes to answer. Without, interruption. By me, or the other candidate. Then we'll take six minutes or so to discuss the issue. At that point, although there will always be more to say, we'll move on to the next topic. We want a debate, that is lively. But americans. Also, deserve. A discussion. That is civil. These are tumultuous. Times, but we can and will, have a respectful, exchange. About the big issues, facing our nation. Let's begin with the ongoing, pandemic. That has cost, our country. So much. Senator harris, the coronavirus. Is not under control. Over the past, week, johns hopkins, reports that, 39. States have had more covet cases over the past seven days. Than in the week before. Nine states, have set new records. Even if a vaccine, is released soon the next administration. Will face, hard choices. What would a biden administration. Do in january, and february. That a trump administration. Wouldn't do would you impose. New lockdowns, for businesses, in schools and hot spots. A federal mandate to wear masks. You have two minutes to respond, without, interruption. Thank you susan. Well, the, american, people have witnessed. What is the greatest. Failure, of any presidential. Administration. In the history of our country. And here are the facts. 210. 000 dead people in our country, in just the last several months. Over, seven million people who have contracted, this disease.
One In five businesses. Closed. We're looking at. Front line workers who have been treated. Like sacrificial. Workers. We are looking at over, 30, million, people. Who in the last several months, had to file for unemployment. And here's the thing. On january. 28th. The vice president, and the president, were informed. About the nature of this pandemic, they were informed that it's lethal, in consequence. That it is airborne. That it will affect, young people. And that, it would be contracted. Because it is airborne. And they knew, what was happening, and they didn't tell, you. Can you imagine, if you knew on january, 28th. As opposed to march 13th. What they knew what you might have done to prepare. They knew and they covered it up. The president said it was a hoax. They minimized, the seriousness. Of it the president, said, you're on one side of his ledger if you wear a mask you're on the other side of his ledger. If you don't. And, in spite of all of that today they still don't have a plan. They still don't have a plan well joe biden does. And our plan is about, what we need to do around a national strategy. For contact, tracing for testing. For administration. Of the vaccine. And making sure that it will be free for all. That is the plan that joe biden has and that i have, knowing that we have to get a hold of what has been going on, and we need to save our country. And joe biden is the best leader to do that and frankly this administration, has forfeited. Thank you their right to re-election. Based on this, thank you senator harris. Vice president pence, more than 210. 000 americans, have died of covet 19, since february. The u.s death toll as a percentage of our population. Is higher, than that of almost every other wealthy nation, on earth. For instance our death rate is two and a half times, that of canada, next door. You head, the administration's. Coronavirus. Task force. Why is the u.s death toll, as a percentage of our population. Higher, than that of almost every other wealthy country, and you have two minutes to respond, without, interruption. Susan thank you, and i want to thank the commission, and the university of utah for. Hosting, this event. And, senator harris. It's privileged to be on the stage, with you. And our nation has gone through a very challenging, time this year. But i want the american people to know. That from the very, first, day. President donald trump has put the health of america, first. Before there were more than five, cases in the united states, all people who had returned, from china. President, donald trump did what no other american president had ever done. And that was he suspended. All, travel from china the second largest economy, in the world. Now. Senator. Joe biden, biden, opposed. That decision. He said it was xenophobic. And, hysterical. But i can tell you having led the white house coronavirus, task force that that decision alone by president, trump. Bought us invaluable. Time to stand up the greatest national mobilization. Since world war ii. And i believe it saved hundreds, of thousands, of american, lives. Because with that time we were able to reinvent, testing more than 115. Million tests had been done to date. We were able to see to the delivery of, billions, of supplies, so our doctors, and nurses had the resources, support they needed. And we began. Really before the month of february was art to develop a vaccine. And to develop medicines, and therapeutics, had been saving lives all along the way. And under president trump's leadership, operation, warp speed we believe we'll have. Literally, tens of millions of doses of a vaccine, before the end of this year. The reality, is when you look at the biden plan it reads an awful lot. Like what president trump and i and our task force have been doing every, step, of the way. And quite frankly.
When I look at their plan that talks about. Advancing, testing. Creating new ppe, developing, a vaccine. It looks a little bit like plagiarism. Which is something joe biden knows a little bit about. And i think the american people know that, this is a president who has put the health of america, first and the american, people i believe with my heart. Can be proud of the sacrifices. They have made. It's safe thank you american lives. Senator harris, would you like to respond, absolutely. Whatever the vice president is claiming the administration. Has done clearly it hasn't worked. When you're looking at over 210. 000 dead bodies in our country. American, lives. That have been lost, families that are grieving. That loss. And you know. The vice president, is the head of the task force. And knew, on january, 28th, how serious this was and then thanks to bob woodward. We learned. That they knew about it and then when that was exposed. The vice president, said when asked well why didn't you all tell anybody. He said because the president, wanted people to remain, calm. Well let's go i don't know but susan, this is important, and i want to add if mr vice president i'm speaking i have i'm speaking. Yeah you can have 15 more seconds, and then we'll give the vice president. So i want to ask the american people, how calm were you when you were panicked about where you're going to get your next roll of toilet paper. How come were you, when your kids were sent home from school and you didn't know when they could go back, how come thank you. Thank you when your children, couldn't see your parents, because you were afraid they could kill them. Let's give vice president pence a chance to respond vice presidents, you have one minute to receive you know there's not a day gone by that i haven't thought of every american family that's lost a loved one. And i want all of you to know that you'll always be in our hearts. And in our, prayers. But when you say what the american, people have done over these last eight months hasn't, worked. That's a great disservice. To the sacrifices. The american people have made. The reality, if i may if i may finish that. The reality, is dr fauci, said. Everything that he told the president in the oval office the president told the american people. Now president trump i will tell you has boundless confidence, in the american people and he always spoke with confidence, that we'd get through this together. But when you say it hasn't, worked. When dr fauci and dr burks and our medical experts came to us in the second week of march. They said if the president, didn't take the unprecedented. Step. Of shutting down roughly half of the american, economy. That we could lose, 2.2. Million. Americans. And that's the reality, thank you they also said this if we did everything, right susan we could still lose more than 200, 000 americans. Vice president one life lost is too many susan. But the american, people i believe deserve, credit. For the sacrifices. That they have made putting the health of their family. And their neighbors, first our doctors, our nurses, our first thank you vice president pence and i'm going to speak up on behalf of what the american people have done vice president pence you were in the front row, in a rose garden event 11 days ago what seems to have been a super spreader. Event for senior administration, and congressional, officials. No social distancing. Few masks. And now a cluster of coronavirus. Cases among those who were there. How can you expect americans, to follow, the administration's. Safety, guidelines, to protect themselves from covid. When you at the white house have not been doing so. Well the american, people. Have demonstrated. Over the last eight months. That when given the facts. They're willing to put the health of their families, and their neighbors and people they don't even know first. President trump and i have great confidence, in in the american, people and. And their ability. To take that information. And put it into practice. In the height of the epidemic. When we were losing. A heartbreaking, number of 2, 500, americans, a day. We surged resources, to new jersey, and, new york and new orleans and detroit we told the american people what needed to be done and the american people made the sacrifices. When the outbreak in the sun belt happened this summer, again americans, stepped forward. But the reality, is the work, of the president of the united states goes on.
A Vacancy, on the supreme court of the united states. Uh has come upon us and the president, introduced, judge amy coney, thank you thank you very much. If i may say that rose garden event. I've done a great deal of speculation. About it, my wife karen and i were there and honored to be there. Many of the people who were at that event susan, actually were tested, for coronavirus. And it was an outdoor event which, all of our scientists, regularly, and routinely, advise. The difference here is, president, trump and i trust the american. People. To make choices, in the best interest, of their, health. Joe biden, and kamala harris. Consistently, talk about, mandates, and not not just mandates, with the coronavirus. But, a government takeover, of healthcare thank you thank you green new deal. All government control we're about freedom and respecting, the freedom of the american people, let's talk about respecting the american people. You respect the american people when you tell them the truth. You respect the american people when you have the courage. To be a leader, speaking. Of those things that you may not want people to hear but they need to hear so they can protect themselves. But this administration. Stood on information, that if you had as a parent, if you had as a worker knowing you didn't have enough money saved up and now you're standing in a food line. Because. Of the. Ineptitude. Of an administration. That was unwilling, to speak the truth to the american, people. So let's talk about caring about the american, people the american people have had to sacrifice, far too much, because of the incompetence, of this administration. It is asking too much of the people who are talking about that, asking too much of the people. That they would not be equipped with the information, they need. To help themselves, to protect, their parents, and their i'm sorry, uh. Senator harris i mean i'm sorry that's fine i'm comma no no you're senator harris to me. Um for life to get back to normal. Dr anthony fauci and other experts say, that most of the people who can be vaccinated. Need to be vaccinated. But half of americans, now say they wouldn't take a vaccine, if it was released, now. If the trump administration. Approves a vaccine, before or after the election. Should americans. Take it and would you take it. If the. Public health professionals. If dr, fauci. If. The doctors. Tell us that we should take it i'll be the first in line to take it absolutely, but if donald trump tells us i should that we should take it i'm not taking it. Vice president pence there have been a lot of repercussions. From this pandemic. In recent days the president's diagnosis, of covert 19 has underscored, the importance. Of the job that you hold, and that you are seeking. That's our second topic tonight, it's the role, of the vice president. One of you will make history, on january, 20th, he will be the vice, president, to the oldest, president, the united states has ever had. Donald trump will be 74, years old on inauguration, day, joe biden will be 78, years old. That already, has raised concerns, among some voters, concerns, that have been sharpened. By president trump's hospitalization. In recent days. Vice president pence, have you had a conversation. Or reached an agreement. With president, trump, about, safeguards. Or procedures, when it comes to the issue. Of presidential, disability. And if not. Do you think you should you have two minutes without interruption.
Well Susan uh thank you although i would like to go back. I think we need to move on well thank you but i would like to go back. Because. The reality, is that we're going to have a vaccine. Senator in record time, in unheard, of time in less than a year. We have five companies. In, phase three clinical, trials. And we're right now producing, tens of millions of doses. So. The fact that you continue, to undermine, public, confidence, in a vaccine. If the vaccine, emerges, during the trump administration. I think is. Is unconscionable. And senator i i just ask you. Stop playing politics, with people's lives. The reality. Is, that we will have a vaccine, we believe, before the end of this year. And it will have the, capacity, to save. Countless, american, lives and. Your continuous. Undermining. Of confidence, in a vaccine, is just. It's just unacceptable. And let me also say. You know the reality, is when you talk about, about failure, in this administration. We actually do know what failure looks like in a pandemic. It was 2009. The swine flu arrived in the united, states. Thankfully, it was, ended up. Not being as lethal. As the coronavirus. But before the end of the year. When joe biden was vice president of the united states. Not seven and a half million people contracted. The swine flu. 60, million, americans, contracted, the swine flu. If the swine flu had been as lethal as the coronavirus. In 2009. When joe biden was vice president we would have lost two million, american lives. His own chief of staff ron clain. Would say last year. That it was pure luck. That they did quote, everything, possible. Wrong. And and, we learned from that. They left the strategic, national stockpile. Empty. They left uh an empty and hollow plan but we still learned from it and i i think the american, people i'm gonna say again can be vice president pence i'm sorry, we have done, and senator, please, thank you stop undermining, confidence, in a vaccine. Senator harris let me ask you the same question that i asked, vice president pence which is, have you had a conversation. Or reached an agreement with vice president biden. About safeguards. Or procedures. When it comes to the issue, of presidential, disability. And if not, and if you win the election, next month. Do you think, you should, you have two minutes, uninterrupted. So let me tell you first of all um the day i got the call from, from joe biden it was actually a zoom call. Um. Asking, me to serve with him on this ticket, was probably one of the most memorable, day but memorable days of my life um, i, you know. I thought about my mother. Who. Came to the united states at the age of 19. And gave birth to me at the age of 25. At kaiser hospital in oakland california. And. The thought that i'd be sitting here right now.
I Know. Would make her proud and she must be looking down on this. Um. You know joe and i were raised, in a very similar way. We were raised with values, that are about, hard work. About. The value and the dignity, of public service. And about the importance, of fighting for the dignity of all people and i think joe asked me to serve with him because. You know i have a career that included. Being elected the first woman district attorney, of san francisco. Where i created, models, of innovation, for, for law enforcement, in terms of reform of the criminal justice system i was elected. The first. Woman of color, and black woman to be elected attorney general of the state of california, where i ran the second largest department of justice in the united states, second only to the united states department of justice. And there i took on, everything from transnational, criminal organizations. To the big banks that were taking advantage of homeowners. To for-profit, colleges, that were taking advantage of veterans. And then of course now i serve in the united states senate is only the second black woman ever elected, to the united states senate i serve on the senate intelligence, committee where i've been in, regular, receipt. Of classified, information, about, threats to our nation and hot spots around the world i've traveled, the world i've met, with our soldiers, in our, in war zones. And i think joe has asked me to serve with him, because he knows that we share. We share a purpose, which is about lifting up the american, people. And after the four years that we have seen of donald trump unifying, our country, around, our common values. And principles, thank you senator harris you know neither neither, president trump nor vice president biden has released a sort of, detailed. Health information. That had become the modern norm, until the 2016, election. And in recent days president trump's doctors, have given, misleading, answers or refused to answer basic questions about his health, and my question, to each of you in turn, is, is this information. Voters. Deserve. To know, vice president pence would you like to go first. Well. Susan thank you. And. And let me, let me say. On behalf of the president. And the first lady. How moved we've all been. By the outpouring, of. Prayers, and concern. For the president. And i do believe it's emblematic, of the prayers and, the concern, that have ushered forth for every american, impacted. By the coronavirus. But the care the president received. At walter reed hospital. The white house doctors was exceptional. And the transparency, that they practiced, all along the way will continue. The american people have a right to know about the health and well-being. Of their president, and we'll continue, to do that. But i'm just extremely, grateful. And was. More than more than a little moved. By the broad, and bipartisan. Support, and, senator i want to thank you and joe biden for your expressions. Genuine, concern. And i also want to congratulate. You. As i did on that phone call. On the historic, nature, of your nomination. Um. I i never expected to be on this stage four years ago so i know the feeling. But um. The reality, is. Uh, we've got an election. Before the american people in the midst of this challenging, year, and the stakes have never been higher because i think the choice has never been i want to give, senator harris a chance to respond to the same, question i ask which is do voters, have a right to know. More detailed health information. About presidential, candidates, and especially, about presidents.
Especially. When they're facing some kind of challenge, absolutely. And that's why joe biden has been so, incredibly, transparent, and certainly by contrast. The president has not. Um both in terms of health records but also let's look at taxes. We now know because of great, investigative, journalism. That donald trump paid. 750. Dollars, in taxes. When i first heard about it i literally, said you mean 750. 000. And it was like no, 750. We now know donald trump, owes. And is in debt. For 400. Million, dollars, and just so everyone is clear when when we say in debt it means you owe money to somebody. And it'd be really good to know, who the president of the united states the commander-in-chief. Owes money to because the american, people have a right to know. What is influencing. The president's, decisions. And is he making those decisions, on the best interest of the american, people of you. Or, self-interest. So susan i'm glad you asked about transparency. Because it has to be across the board, joe has been incredibly. Transparent. Over many many years. The one thing we all know about joe, he puts it all out there, he. He is honest, he is forthright. But donald trump on the other hand has been about covering, up everything, thanks thank you senator harris i want to give you a chance to respond, vice president well look i i respect the fact that, joe biden spent 47, years in public life, i respect your. Public service as well, thank you, the american, people, have a president. Who's a businessman. It's a job creator. Who's paid. Tens of millions, of dollars, in taxes. Payroll, taxes, property, taxes, he's, created, tens of thousands, of american, jobs. And the president said those public reports, are, not accurate, and. The president's also released, literally, stacks, of financial, disclosures. The american people can. Review, just as the law allows but, the distinction, here is that. Joe biden, 47. Years in public service compared to president donald trump who brought all of that experience, four years ago thank you very much, turned this economy, around by cutting taxes, rolling back regulations, thank you thank you very much energy.
Fighting For free and fair trade. And all that thank you thank you vice president if joe biden. And kamala harris you know that's a good segue, into our third topic, which is about the economy, this has been another, aspect, of life for americans that's been so, affected. By this coronavirus. We have a jobs, crisis. Brewing. On friday we learned that the unemployment. Rate had declined to 7.9, percent in september. But the job growth had stalled and that was before the latest round of layoffs and furloughs. In the airline industry at disney and elsewhere. Hundreds of thousands of discouraged, workers, have stopped looking for work. Nearly, 11, million jobs that existed at the beginning of the year, haven't been replaced. Those hardest hit include latinos. Blacks, and women. Senator, harris, the biden harris. Campaign has proposed new programs to boost the economy and you would pay for that. New spending by raising. Four trillion dollars. In taxes, on wealthy individuals. And corporations. Some economists, warn that could curb, entrepreneurial. Ventures. That fuel growth, and create jobs. Would raising, taxes. Put the recovery. At risk, and you have two minutes to answer, uninterrupted. Thank you. On the issue of the economy, i think there couldn't be a more fundamental, difference. Between donald trump and joe biden. Joe biden, believes you measure the health, and the strength, of america's, economy. Based on the health, and the strength, of the american worker. And the american, family. On the other hand you have donald trump. Who measures, the strength of the economy. Based on how rich people are doing. Which is why he passed, a tax bill, benefiting, the top one percent. And the biggest corporations. Of america. Leading, to, a, two trillion, dollar deficit, that the american, people are going to have to pay for. On day one, joe biden. Will repeal, that tax bill he'll get rid of it, and what he'll do with the money is invest it in the american, people. And through a plan that is about investing in infrastructure, something that donald trump said he would do i remember hearing about some infrastructure, week i don't think it ever happened. But joe biden will do that he'll invest in infrastructure, it's about upgrading, our roads and bridges but also. Investing, in clean energy and renewable, energy. Joe is going to invest. That money in what we need to do around innovation. There was a time when our country believed, in science. And invested, in research, and development. So that we were an innovation. Leader, on the globe. Joe biden will use that money to invest in education. So for example. For folks who want to go to a two-year, community, college it will be free, if you come from a family that makes less than 125. 000. You'll go to a public university. For free. And across the board will make sure, that if you have student loan debt it's cut by ten thousand dollars. That's how joe biden thinks about the economy which is it's about investing, in the people of our country. As opposed to passing a tax bill, which had the benefit. Of letting american, corporations. Go offshore. To do their business. Thank you, senator harris, vice president pence your administration, has been predicting, a rapid and robust, recovery. But the latest economic, report suggests that's not happening. Should americans, be braced, for an economic, comeback that is going to take not months but a year, or more, you have two minutes to answer, uninterrupted. When president trump and i took office. America had gone through the slowest, economic, recovery since the great depression. When joe biden was vice president they tried to tax, and spend and regulate, and bail our way back to a growing economy. President trump cut taxes, across the board.
Despite What, uh senator harris says. The average american family of four had two thousand dollars in savings in taxes. And. With the rise in wages, that occurred. Most predominantly, for blue-collar. Hard-working, americans. The average household, income for a family of four increased by four thousand, dollars, following president trump's tax cuts. But america, you just heard senator harris tell you. On day one. Joe biden's gonna raise your taxes. It's really remarkable, to things. I mean right after. A time where we're going through a pandemic, that lost 22, million jobs at the height. We've already, added, back 11.6. Million jobs. Because we had a president who cut taxes, rolled back regulation. Unleashed, american, energy, fought for free and fair trade, and secured, four trillion, dollars from the congress of the united states, to give direct payments to families. Save 50 million, jobs through the paycheck, protection, program. We literally, have spared, no expense to help the american people and the american worker through this, joe biden and kamala harris. Want to raise taxes. They want to bury, our economy, under a 2 trillion. Green new deal. Which you were one of the original co-sponsors. Of in the united states senate. They want to abolish, fossil, fuels. And ban fracking, which would cost hundreds, of thousands. Of american, jobs all across the heartland. And joe biden wants to go back to the economic, surrender to china that when we took office. Half of our international, trade deficit, was with china, alone. And joe biden wants to repeal, all of the tariffs. That president trump put into effect to fight for american, jobs and american, workers. Joe biden says democracy's. On the ballot. Make no mistake about it susan. The american, economy, the american, comeback, is on the ballot. With four more years of growth thank you an opportunity, four more years of president donald trump. 20 21, thank you very much biggest economic year in the history of this country thank you vice president pence. Senator harris. Well i mean i that we saw enough of it in last week's debate but i think this is supposed to be a debate based on fact and truth, and the truth and the fact is joe biden has been very clear, he will not raise taxes on anybody who makes less than four hundred thousand dollars a year appeal the trump tax cut mr vice president i'm speaking. Well. I'm speaking, be important if you said the truth. Joe biden said twice in the debate last week that he's going to repeal the trump tax cuts. That was tax cuts that gave the average working, family. Two thousand, dollars, in a tax break, every single year that senator, that is absolutely. Not true that is he only cutting, is he only going to repeal, part of the trump tax cuts, if you don't mind letting me finish. We can then have a conversation. Okay, please, okay. Joe biden will not raise taxes, on anyone who makes less than four hundred thousand dollars a year he has been very clear about that, joe biden will not end fracking, he has been very clear about that. Joe biden. Is the one who. During the the great recession. Was responsible. For the recovery, act, that brought america, back and now the trump. Pence administration. Wants to take credit. When they ran when they wrote the court coattails. Of joe biden's success. For the economy, that they had at the beginning of their term of course now the economy is a complete disaster. But joe biden on the one hand did that on the other hand you have donald trump. Who has, reigned over. A recession. That is being compared to the great depression. On the one hand you have joe biden. Who was responsible. With president barack obama. For the affordable, care act. Which brought health care to over 20, million americans, and protected, people with pre-existing, conditions, and what it also did. Is it saved to those families who otherwise were going bankrupt. Because of hospital bills they could not afford. On the other hand. You have donald trump who's in court right now, trying to get rid of thank you trying to get rid of, the affordable, care act, which means that you will lose protections. If you have pre-existing, conditions, and i just this is very important susan yes and it's about we need to give we need to get vice president i'd just like to he interrupted, me and i'd like to just finish. Please. If you have a pre-existing, condition. Heart disease, diabetes. Breast cancer.
They're Coming for you. If you love someone who has a pre-existing, condition, thank you thank you coming for you, if you are under the age of 26, on your parents, coverage. They're coming for you senator harris thank you, let me give you a chance to respond, well i hope we have a chance to talk about health care because obamacare, was a disaster. The american people remember it well. And president trump and i have a plan. To improve health care and to protect, protect, pre-existing. Conditions, for every. American. But look, senator harris you're, you're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. You yourself, said on multiple, occasions, when you were running for president. That you would ban fracking. Joe biden, looked at a supporter, in the eye. And pointed and said i guarantee. I guarantee. That we will abolish, fossil, fuels. They have a two trillion, dollar version of the green new deal susan that your newspaper, usa, today said, really wasn't that very, different from the original, green new deal. More taxes. More regulation. Banning, fracking. Abolishing. Fossil, fuel crushing, american, energy, and economics, surrendered. China. Is a prescription. For economic. Decline. President trump and i will keep, america, growing. The v-shaped, recovery, that's underway. Right now, will continue with four more years of president donald trump, thank you very very much vice president pence once again you've provided the perfect segue to a new topic, which is climate, change. And vice president pence i'd like to pose the first question, to you. This year we've seen record-setting. Hurricanes, in the south. Another one hurricane, delta is now threatening the gulf, and we have seen record-setting. Wildfires. In the west. Do you believe. As the scientific, community, has concluded. That man-made, climate, change, has made wildfires. Bigger. Hotter, and more deadly. And have made hurricanes, wetter. Slower. And more damaging. You have two minutes uninterrupted. Thank you susan. Well first i'm very proud of our record on the environment, and on conservation. According to all of the best estimates. Are. Our air and land are cleaner than any time ever recorded. Our water is among the cleanest, in the world. And just a little while ago the president signed the outdoors, act as the largest, investment, in our public, lands and public parks. In 100 years. So, president trump has made a commitment to conservation, into the environment. Now with regard to climate change. The climate is changing. But the issue, is. What's the cause, and what do we do about it. President trump has made it clear that we're going to continue to listen to the science. Now joe biden. And kamala harris would put us back in the paris climate accord they'd impose the green new deal. Which would crush, american, energy would increase, the energy costs of american. Families. In their homes. And literally would crush, american, jobs. And president trump and i believe that, the progress, that we have made.
In A cleaner environment. Has been happening precisely. Because, we have a strong, free market, economy. You know what's remarkable, is, the united states has reduced. Co2. More. Than the countries, that are still in the paris climate accord but we've done it through innovation. And we've done it through natural, gas. And fracking. Which senator, the american people can, go look at the record i. I know joe biden. Says otherwise, now as you do. But the both of you repeatedly. Committed, to abolishing, fossil fuel and banning. A fracking. And so, by creating, the kind of american, innovation. We're actually steering toward a stronger and better environment. With regard to wildfires. President, trump and i believe that forest management, has to be front and center and even, governor gavin newsom from your state has agreed we've got to work on forest management. And with regard to hurricanes. The, national, oceanic, administration. Tells us that actually, is as difficult, as they are thank you vice president there are no more hurricanes. Today than there were a hundred years ago. Thank you but many of the climate, alarms. Use hurricanes. And wildfires. To try and sell those. Of a green new deal. And president trump and i are going to always put american jobs and american workers. First. Senator harris, as the vice president mentioned you co-sponsored, the green new deal in congress. But vice president biden said in last week's debate, that he does not support, the green new deal. But if you look at the biden harris. Campaign website, it describes, the greener deal. As a crucial, framework. What exactly. Would be the stance, of a biden-harris. Administration. Toward, the green new deal, you have two minutes uninterrupted. Sure so, first of all, i will repeat. And the american people know. That joe biden. Will not ban fracking. That is a fact. That is a fact. I will. Repeat. That, joe biden, has been very clear. That he thinks about, growing, jobs which is why he will not increase taxes, for anyone who makes less than four hundred thousand dollars, a year. Joe biden's economic, plan. Moody's. Which is a reputable, wall street firm. Has said will create seven million more jobs. Than donald, trump's. And, part of those jobs that will be created by joe biden. Are going to be, about clean energy, and renewable, energy. Because you see. Joe understands. That, the west coast of our country, is burning, including my home state of california. Joe sees, what is happening. On the gulf states. Which are being battered, by storms. Joe has seen and talked with the farmers in iowa. Whose entire, crops, have been destroyed, because of floods. And so joe believes, again, in science, i'll tell you something susan, i served when i first got to the senate, on the committee that's responsible, for the environment, do you know this administration. Took, the word, science, off the website. And then took the phrase climate, change off the website. This we have seen a pattern with this administration, which is they don't believe in science. And joe's, plan, is about saying we're going to deal with it but we're also going to create jobs. Donald trump when asked about the wildfires, in california. And and the question was you know the science is telling us this you know what donald trump said. Science, doesn't know. So. Let's talk about who is prepared, to lead our country. Over the course of the next four years, on what is an existential. Threat, to us as human beings, joe is about, saying we're going to invest that in renewable, energy, it's going to be about the creation of millions of jobs, we will achieve. Net. Zero emissions, by 2050. Carbon neutral by 2035. Joe has a plan. This has been a lot of talk from the trump administration. And really it has been to go backward, instead of forward, we will also re-enter, the climate, agreement with pride. Senator harris just said that climate change is an existential. Threat. Vice president pence do you believe that climate change poses, an existential. Threat. As i said susan the climate, is changing. We'll follow the science. But. Once again. Senator harris. Is, denying, the fact that they're going to raise taxes. On every american joe biden, said twice, in the debate last week. That on day one he was going to repeal the trump tax cuts. Those tax cuts delivered two thousand dollars, in tax relief. To the average family of four across america. And with regard to banning fracking i just recommend that people. Look at the record you yourself, said repeatedly, that you would ban fracking you were the first, senate, co-sponsor. Of the green new deal. And while joe biden denied, the green new deal susan thank you for pointing out, the green new deal is on their campaign, website.
And As usa, today said it's essentially, the same plan, as you co-sponsored. With aoc, when she submitted, it in the senate. And you just heard the senator say that she's going to resubmit. America to the paris climate accord. Look. The american, people have, always, cherished our environment, we'll continue, to cherish it we've made great progress. Reducing. Co2, emissions, through american, innovation. And the development of natural gas through fracking. We don't need a massive, two trillion, dollar, green new deal that would impose all new mandates, on american, businesses. And american, families, thank you joe biden wants us to retrofit. 4, million, thank you vice president business, buildings. It makes no sense it will cost. Jobs, president, trump, thank you very much america, first he's going to put jobs first and we're going to take, care of our environment, and follow the sciences. On the issue of jobs senator, let's talk about that. You the the vice president, earlier referred, to. As part of. What he thinks is an accomplishment. Um, the the president's. Trade war with china. You lost, that trade war, you lost it. What ended up happening. Is because of a so-called, trade war with china. America, lost, 300, 000 manufacturing. Jobs. Farmers. Have experienced. Bankruptcy. Because of it we are in a manufacturing. Recession. Because of it. And when we look at where this administration. Has been. There are estimates that by the end of the term, of this administration. They will have. Lost, more jobs. Than almost any, other, presidential. Administration. And the american, people know what i'm talking about, you know, i i think about 20 year olds, you know we have a 20 year old. 20 something year old, who are coming out of high school and college right now and you're wondering, is there going to be a job there for me. We're looking at people who are, trying to figure out, how they're going to pay, rent by the end of the month almost half of american, renters. Are worried about whether they're going to be able to pay rent. By the end of the month. This is where the economy, is in america, right now and it is because, of, the catastrophe. And the failure, of leadership. Of this administration. Thank you senator harris. Vice president pence let me give you just 15 seconds to respond because then i want to move on to well i'd, love to respond look. Lost the. Trade war with china joe biden never fought it. Joe biden has been a cheerleader, for communist, china through over the last several decades. And and again. Senator harris you're entitled to your opinion you're not entitled to your own facts.
When Joe biden was vice president we lost 200. 000 manufacturing. Jobs. And president obama said they were never coming back he said we needed a magic wand to bring them back, in our first three years after we cut taxes, pullback regulation, unleashed american energy. This administration, saw 500. 000 manufacturers. Of jobs created. And that's exactly, the kind of growth we're going to continue, to see as we bring our nation through thank you very much pandemic. The green new deal your massive new mandate your paris climate accord, it's going to kill jobs this time just like it killed jobs. And i just need to respond very quickly 15 seconds, thank you thank you. Joe biden. Is responsible, for saving. America's, auto industry, and you voted against, it, so let's set the record straight. Thank you. I'd like to talk about, china. We have, as our next, topic. We have no more complicated. Or consequential. Foreign relationship. Than the one with china. It is a huge market for american, agricultural. Goods it's a potential, partner, in dealing with climate change in north korea. And in a video tonight, president, trump again blamed it for the coronavirus. Saying, china, will pay. Vice president pence, how would you describe, our. Our fundamental, relationship, with china. Competitors. Adversaries. Enemies. You have two minutes. Thank you susan. Well let me before i leave that let me let me speak to, voting records if i can. You know. Everybody knows that nafta cost, literally. Thousands, of american, factories, to close. We saw automotive, jobs go south of the border president trump fought. To renegotiate. Nafta. And the united states mexico, canada agreement is now the law of the land. American people deserve to know. Senator kamala harris was one of only 10 members of the senate to vote against the usmca. It was a huge win for american auto workers. It was a huge win for american farmers, especially, dairy in the upper midwest. But senator you you said it didn't go far enough on climate, change. That that you put your, your. Radical, environmental. Agenda. Ahead, of american, auto workers and ahead of american. Jobs, and the american people deserve to know that is probably, why. Newsweek, magazine, said that that kamala, harris was the most liberal member of the united states senate in 2019. More liberal than bernie sanders. Uh, more more liberal than any of the others. In the united states senate so, now with regard to china. Look. Susan first and foremost. China is to blame for the coronavirus. And president, trump is not happy about it he's made that very clear made it clear again today.
China And the world health organization, did not play straight with the american people. They did not let our personnel. Into china, to get information, on the coronavirus. Until the middle of february. Fortunately. President trump. In dealing with china from the outset of this administration. Standing, up to china that had been taking advantage of america, for decades. In the wake of, joe biden's, cheerleading, for china. President trump made that decision before the end of january, to suspend, all travel from china. And again, the american people deserve to know joe biden, opposed, president, trump's decision to suspend, all travel. From china. He said it was hysterical. He said it thank you vice president. Of president trump. China we're going to continue, to stand, strong thank you vice president pence we want to improve the relationship but we're going to level the playing field and we're going to hold, china accountable, for what they did to america, with the coronavirus. Thank you. Senator harris let me ask you the same. Question, that i asked the vice president, how would you describe. Our fundamental, relationship, with china are we competitors. Adversaries. Enemies. You'll have two minutes, uninterrupted. Susan, the. Trump. Administration's. Perspective. And approach to china has resulted, in the loss of american. Lives. American. Jobs. And america's. Standing. There's a weird obsession. That president, trump has had. With getting rid of whatever. Accomplishment. Was, achieved. By president, obama, and vice president, biden. For example. They created, within the white house, an office. That basically, was responsible, for monitoring, pandemics. They got away, they got rid of it. It's not true there. Was, a team, of disease, experts. That, president, obama. And vice president, biden, dispatched. To china. To monitor. What. Is now predictable. And what might happen, they pulled them out. We now are looking. At. 210. Thousand, americans, who have lost their lives. Let's look at the job situation. We mentioned before. The trade deal. The trade, war. They wanted to call it with china. It resulted, in the loss of over 300. Manufacturing. Jobs and a manufacturing. Recession. And the american consumer, paying thousands of dollars, more for goods. Because of that failed. War that they called it, then let's talk about standing. Pew. A reputable. Research, firm. Has done an analysis. That shows, that. Leaders, of all of our formerly, allied, countries. Have now decided. That they hold in greater esteem, and respect. Xi jinping. The head of the chinese, communist, party. Than they do donald trump, the president, of the united states the commander-in-chief. Of the united, states, this is where we are today. Because of a failure. Of leadership, by this administration. Senator, harris, we've seen changes, in the, in the role of the united states in terms of global leadership. Over the past four years. And of course times do change. What's your definition. We've seen strains, with china of course, as the vice president, mentioned, we've seen strains with our traditional, allies. In nato and elsewhere. What is your definition. Of the role of american, leadership. In 2020. So. You know joe is, i, love talking with joe about a lot of these issues and you know joe, he i think he said it quite well he says you know foreign policy, it might sound complicated, but really it's relationships. So just think about it as relationships. And. So we know this in our personal and professional, relationships. Um you got to keep your word to your friends. God be loyal to your friends people who've stood with you got to stand with them. You got to know who your adversaries. Are, and keep them in check. But what we have seen with donald trump. Is that, he has betrayed. Our friends. And it and and be tr and and and, embraced. Dictators, around the world.
Let's Take for example. Russia. So. Rush i serve on the intelligence, committee, of the united states senate. America's. Intelligence, community, told us. Russia, interfered, in the election of the president of the united states in 2016. And is playing in 2020.. Christopher, wray the director. Of the fbi, said the same. But donald trump the commander-in-chief. Of the united states of america. Prefers, to take the word of vladimir, putin, over the word of the american intelligence, community. You look at our friends, at nato. He has walked away, from agreements, you can talk look at the iran nuclear, deal. Which now has put us in a position. Where we are less safe, because they are building, up. What might end up being a significant, nuclear. Arsenal. We were in that deal guys we were in the iran nuclear deal with friends with allies around the country, and because of, donald trump's unilateral. Approach, to foreign policy. Coupled with his isolationism. He pulled us out and has made america less safe so susan. It's about relationships. And the thing that has always been part of the strength of our nation. In addition to our great military. Has been that we keep our word but donald trump doesn't understand, that because he doesn't understand. What it means to be honest. Thank you thank you uh thank you senator harris, vice president, let me give you a chance to respond, well thank you, um well president trump kept his word when we moved the american embassy to jerusalem. The capital of the state of israel. When joe biden was vice president they promised to do that and they never did. We stood strong. With our allies, but we've been demanding. Nato is now contributing, more to our common defense than. Ever before, thanks to president trump's. Leadership. We've strengthened our alliances, across the asia pacific. And we've stood strong. Against those who would do us harm. You know when president trump came into office. Isis, had captured, an area. Of the middle east the size, of pennsylvania. But president trump. Unleashed, the american military. And our armed forces destroyed, the isis caliphate. And took down their leader al-baghdadi. Without one american, casualty. Al baghdadi, was uh, responsible. For the death of, thousands. Um. But notably america's hearts today are with the family of kayla mueller. Your parents which are here with us tonight in salt lake city. Today. Two of the isis, killers. Responsible, for kayla mueller's.
Murder. Were brought to justice in the united, states. Jihadi, john was killed on the battlefield, along with the other, beetle. The reality, is that. When joe biden was vice president we had an opportunity. To save kayla miller. Breaks my heart to reflect on him but the military, came into the oval office. Presented a plan they. Said they knew where caleb was. Baghdadi, had held her for 18, months abused, her mercilessly. Before they. Killed her. But, when joe biden was vice president they hesitated. For a month. And when armed forces finally went in. It was clear she'd been moved two days earlier. And her family. Says with. A heart that broke the heart of every american, that. If president donald trump had been president they believe kayla, would be alive today, thank you very much we destroyed, the isis caliphate. Uh and you talk about re-entering. The iran nuclear, deal i mean the last administration. Transferred, 1.8. Billion, dollars. To the leading state sponsor, thank you very much of terrorism. President donald trump got us out of the day thank you vice president pence and and when qasim solomoni, was traveling. To baghdad thank you for your harm to americans. President donald trump, thank you vice president pence and america, is is safer. Our allies, are safer and the american people know, president donald trump will never, thank you vice president, take action, i would like to give senator harris a chance to respond but not at such great length because of course there are other topics we want to talk about but i would like equal time yes, thank you please go ahead. First of all to the mueller family, i i, know about your daughter's, case, and i'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Um, what happened to her is. Awful. And it should have never happened. And i know joe feels the same way. And i know that president obama feels the same way. Um. But you mentioned solemnani. Let's let's start there. So. After the strike on soleimani. There was a counter, strike. On our troops in iraq. And. They suffered, serious, brain, injuries, and do you know what donald trump dismissed, them as. Headaches. And this is about a pattern, of donald trump's. Where he has referred. To. Our, men who are serving, in our military, as suckers, and losers. Donald, trump. Who went to arlington. Cemetery. And stood above, the graves. Of our fallen. Heroes. And said. What's in it for them. Because of course, you know he only thinks about what's in it for him. Let's take. What he said about john mccain. A great american, hero. And, and donald trump says. He doesn't deserve to be called a hero, because he was a prisoner. Of war. Take and this is this is very, important. When you want to talk about, who is the current commander-in-chief. And what they care about and what they don't care about. Public reporting. That russia had bounties, on the heads. Of american. Soldiers, and you know what a bounty, is. It's, somebody, puts a price on your head, and they will pay it if you are killed. And donald, trump, had talked at least six times, to vladimir. Putin. And never brought up the subject. Joe biden would never do that thank you joe biden would, but joe biden. Would hold, russia, to account. For any threat. To our nation's security, or to our troops. Who are, sacrificing. Their lives. For the sake of our democracy, and our safety thank you senator harris this is such an important issue but we have other important issues as well and i want to i want to make sure we have a chance i really have to talk about, that. She has 15 seconds, because well i gotta we're trying to keep looking, i'm sorry but vice president, you've had more time than she's had, so far offenders, against president, donald, trump. Regarding. Men and women of our armed forces, are absurd. I'm sorry my son is a captain in the united states marine corps, my son-in-law, is deployed, in the united states navy. I can assure all of you. With sons and daughters serving in our military. President donald trump not only respects but reveres. All of those who serve in our armed forces, and any suggestion, otherwise, it's. Ridiculous. Agreed to the rules for tonight's debate, with the commission on president debates, i'm here to enforce them, which involves. Moving from one topic to another, giving roughly, equal time to both of you which is what i'm trying very hard to go right ahead so i want to go ahead and move to the next topic which is an important one, as the last topic was, and that is the supreme, court. On monday the senate judiciary, committee is scheduled to open hearings, on amy coney barrett's nomination, to the supreme court senator harris. You'll be there as a member of the committee. Her confirmation. Would cement, the court's conservative, majority. And make it likely, open to more abortion, restrictions. Even to overturning, the landmark, roe v wade ruling. Access to abortion, would then be up to the states. Vice president pence, you're the former governor of indiana.
If Roe v wade is overturned. What would you want, indiana, to do, would you want your home state, to ban. All abortions. You have two minutes, uninterrupted. Well thank you for the question but i'll use a little bit of my time to respond, to that very important issue before. The american people deserve to know. Qasim. Salamani, the iranian, general was responsible, for the death of hundreds. Of american, service, members. When the opportunity, came, we saw him headed to baghdad, to kill more americans, president, trump. Didn't hesitate. And qasim salamani, is gone. But you deserve to know that joe biden. And kamala harris, actually, criticized, the decision to take out solomon, uh qasim. Salamani. It's really inexplicable. But with regard to joe biden it's, it's explainable. Because history records that joe biden actually opposed, the raid against osama bin laden. It's absolutely. Essential. That we have a commander-in-chief. Who will not hesitate, to act to protect, american, lives, and to protect american service members and that's what you have in president donald trump. Now with regard. To the supreme court of the united states. Let me say president trump and i could not be more enthusiastic. About the opportunity, to see judge amy coney barrett. Become justice amy coney barrett. She's a brilliant woman. And. She will bring a lifetime, of experience, and a sizable, american family. To the supreme court of the united states. And our hope is in the hearing next week unlike justice kavanaugh, received, with treatment from you and others. But we hope she gets a fair. Hearing. And we particularly. Hope that we don't see the kind of attacks, on her. Christian, faith that we saw before. I mean the democrat, chairman, of the judiciary, committee before. When, when. Judge barrett was being. Confirmed for the court of appeals. Expressed concern. That the dogma, of her faith lived loudly, in her. Dick durbin of illinois, said that it was a concern. Senator i know one of our judicial nominees. You actually. Attacked, because they were a member of the catholic, knights of columbus. Just because the knights of columbus, holds pro-life, views, thank you thank you thank you vice president for your time. When the hearing takes place, thank you vice president pence that judge amy coney barrett, will be respected, thank you vice president. Voted and confirmed to the supreme court of the united states senator harris, you're, the senator from and former attorney, general of california, so let me ask you a parallel, question to the one i posed, to the vice president. If roe v wade is overturned. What would you want, california, to do would you want your home state to enact, no restrictions. On access to abortion.
And You have, two minutes, uninterrupted. Thank you susan first of all. Joe biden and i are both people of faith. And it's insulting, to suggest. That we would. Knock anyone for their faith and in fact joe. If elected, will be only the second. Practicing, catholic. Uh as president of the united states. On the issue of this, of this nomination. Joe and i are very clear as are the majority of the american people. We are 27. Days before. The decision, about who will be the next president of the united states. And you know before. When this conversation, has come up you know it's been about election, year or election, time. We're literally. In an election. Over, four million people have voted. People are in the process, of voting, right now. And so joe has been very clear, as the american people are. Let the american, people. Fill that seat in the white house. And then we'll fill, that seat on the united states supreme court and to your point susan that, the issues, before us couldn't be more serious, there's the issue of choice, and i will always fight for a woman's, right to make a decision about her own body, it should be her decision and not that of donald trump, and the vice president, michael pence, but let's also look at what else is before the, the court, it's the affordable, care act, like. Literally, in the midst of a public health pandemic. When over, 210. 000 people have died, and seven million, people. Probably, have what will be in the future considered, a pre-existing. Condition, because you, you contracted, the, virus. Donald trump is in court right now trying to get rid of the affordable, care act, and i said it before, and it bears repeating. This, means. That there will be no more protections. If they win, for people with pre-existing. Conditions. This means. That over 20 million people will lose your coverage. It means that if you're under the age of 26. You can't stay on your parents coverage anymore. And here's the thing. The contrast, couldn't be more clear, they're trying to get rid of the affordable, care act, joe biden is saying let's expand, coverage, let's give you a choice of a public option or private coverage. Let's bring down, premiums. Let's lower medicare, eligibility, to 60., thank you senator that's true leadership. You know. You mentioned, uh. Earlier. Vice president, pence that the president was committed. To. Maintaining. Protections, for people with pre-existing, conditions. Um. And but you do have this court case that you are supporting your administration, supporting, that would strike down. The affordable, care act the the president, says, president trump says that he's going to protect people, with pre-existing. Conditions but he has not explained. How. He would do that and that was one of the toughest nuts to crack, when they were passing the affordable. Care act so tell us specifically. How would your administration. Protect, americans, with pre-existing, conditions, have, access to affordable, insurance. If the affordable, care act is struck down. Well. Thank you susan, but let me just say addressing, your very first question. I i couldn't be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology, for the sanctity of human, life. I'm pro-life. I i don't apologize. For it. And this is another one of those cases where there's such a dramatic. Contrast. Joe biden and kamala harris support. Taxpayer, funding of abortion, all the way up to the moment of birth. Late term abortion, they want to increase, funding to planned parenthood. Of america. Now for our part i i would never presume how judge amy coney barrett, would rule on the supreme, court. Of the united states, but. Will continue to stand strong for the right to life. When you speak about, the supreme, court though i think the american people really deserve an answer senator harris. Are you and joe biden going to pack the court. If judge amy coney barrett is confirmed. I mean there have been 29, vacancies. On the supreme court during presidential, election years from george washington, to barack obama. Presidents, have nominated, in all 29, cases. But, your party, is actually, openly, advocating. Adding seats to the supreme, court, which has had nine seats for 150. Years. If you don't get your way this is a classic, case of if you can't win by the rules, you're going to change the rules now you've refused to answer the question. Joe biden has refused to answer the question, so i think the american people would really like to know, if judge amy coney barrett is confirmed with the supreme court of the united states. Are you and joe biden, if somehow you win this election, going to. Pack the supreme, court to get your way.
I'm So glad we went through a little history lesson let's do that a little more. In 1816. I'd like you to answer the question mr vice president, speaking. I'm speaking. Okay. In. 1864. One of the, i think political, heroes, certainly of the president, i i assume if you also mr vice president is abraham lincoln. Abraham, lincoln. Was up for re-election. And it was 27. Days before the election. And, a seat became
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