AXSchat with Alejandro Moledo
Hello. Everyone welcome to access, chat today. We. Are being joined by one. Of my good friends and. Friend. To all of us in the disability community, and neil is not joining us you might join us late but we, do have Antonio, here so welcome. Everyone to access chat. Alejandro, is joining us today and he's. Going to tell us a little bit more about the work he's doing so well hundra, why don't you start and tell us a little bit about your, background and the work you're doing and then let's talk you know let's start talking about what you're doing to really make a difference for people with disabilities, so thank you for joining us thank. You. Very much for, the invitation and, I'm very glad to to. Be here with you and well. Basically my name is Alejandro, miletto and I work as a policy. Coordinator, at the European, disability forum and the, European disability forum EDF, is the umbrella organization, that represents, persons. With disabilities. Before the European. Union institutions so. Basically, we are in a platform that brings together all those. Organizations. Of persons with disabilities, at European, level such, as the European blind Union the European Union, of the Deaf autism. Europe inclusion, Europe, representing. People with intellectual, disabilities. And also those organizations. At national, level in its member state that, also, represent. Cross-cutting. Disability. Perspective so we are mainly. An advocacy, organization towards. The the. Institutions, of, the EU and, for. The past 5 years I've. Been, working. And responsible. For the work on of, EDF. Concerning. Access, to to new technologies, so basically accessibility. To, to the ICT, information and communication, technologies, and, it's. Being an, amazing. Experience. For me which I'm really, happy to to. Continue now in a new position as coordinator focusing. Also on other topics as well on political, participation and. Our overall. Advocacy, towards the European Parliament, and as. I was saying it has been amazing, because in the past five years I. Was. Lucky to. Witness. The. Great progress, that the EU has achieved. With. Regards, to to. To. The legal framework the, laws, concerning. Accessibility. We, as we have seen. We. Can talk about them. Important. Milestones, with. Regards, to web. Accessibility the first directive, on on. Accessibility. For the websites. And mobile applications, of public sector bodies we've. Seen the revision, of important, legislation with, regards to audio-visual. And. Audio-visual. Media services, and telecommunications, and. We've, seen the. The, recent. Adoption. Of the European accessibility, Act which has been one, of the main, flagship. Initiatives. And campaigns, from, the European disability movement, calling. For a legislation. On. Accessibility, for production, services which, ended. Up being a very. Good legislation, that, has. A. Very, strong component on ICT that, we can talk about and. Unfortunately. It. It. Fell, short on, unimportant. Aspects with regards, to transport. With regards to the. Access to the built environment. So, it has also its shortcomings, but all in all this has been an, achievement that we, hope we will have, an. Impact, in the everyday lives of persons with disabilities, so finally, Europe. Cuts. Up with. With the US on. On. The accessibility. Domain. Let say, so. And. So and over, the Kasbah over the last couple of years there's, been a lot of discussions. About the, European, digital single, market, do. You see, the. Same of levels, of energy of. Creating. A space. In Europe where people with disabilities are, getting, the same attention in, listen to how, they can be you know look. From. A service-specific, perspective. Do. You see that happening. Well. I see, that the well. The. Euro I mean the EU, the. European Union, I, mean we can talk about general politics, but we see that, now they you is in, a moment of let's. Say. Crisis. I would say internal crisis, on on. How, to how. To move forward so the we, we we, also we. Also felt, in the discussions. On the policies. With. Regards to persons with disabilities, this kind of different, position with regards, of what, the EU as a whole as a regional organization which, by the way has, ratified is the internet. Regional, organization, that has ratified the UN Convention, on the Rights of persons with disabilities and. All its member states as. Well finally so, we, we've, seen also in our domain this kind of trends.
Towards. More, integration, towards. Just. Legislate. The internal market or, being, a more social, Europe Tours, being. A more human rights base. Europe. So all these conflicting. Trends. Or positions. We, also felt them in the in our discussions. Even though there, is a common, agreement to, advance. The rights of persons with disabilities. The, way to achieve, this this, objective, is very different, depending on which. Stakeholder. Or which policy maker you are talking to so, we, we have the good practice of the web directive for example, but we also have or more than 10 years the. Directive. On anti-discrimination. What we call the the, the. Equal. Treatment directive. A directive. On. Anti-discrimination, so, against, this criminal on the grounds of disability, among other. Vulnerable. Groups let's. Say this directly has been stucked in the council, because. Of a couple of member states since, more. Than 10, years and we. Still don't have an in the discrimination. Legislation, in the, you so. In. In in our in our. Domain. We see this this, converging, forces and this kind of lack. Of common, understanding on, common, ground. On how, they you should. Work. I. Don't. Know if that answers, more, or less your question or, I went to do. Too. Much on general. Politics. No. No you know that that's really put things into, perspective because, I've been following, the. Events and and you you, by, following sometimes conversation, Twitter you, see the. Different, tones, coming. From different countries different sectors. Some, countries really trying to move forward and act faster, and even some people from the Commission, who really want to make things happen and. Then you see that somebody, is, holding things, oh. We. Need to delay you know we need to go back to our Parliament. We need so you, you see you see those forces but, I think, it, will be. Looked. To. Observe. How even, if we don't really, have this, kind of a general, agreement, across. The European countries what. Countries, are already decided. To move. Forward. In. Their, own you know, at. The national, level and. Might not be waiting for this to happen they may decide okay this. Is we are basically stopped, here but we might. Just be able to do something by ourselves so in the past we. Had people from the government from Norway, or, on, here, on access chat where. They were explaining, us how they engage with business, in, order to find ways where. Business. Are and understanding. The needs of people disabilities are the websites are accessible how. They indicate. Somehow. The community, on that we we had Suzanna, Lauren from. From FUNKER, from, Stockholm so we see that some countries are somehow.
Doing Their. Own effort, in order so, I think what. Probably need we need to talk more about. The countries, that are doing this right yeah. Totally I mean and. It's. One. Of our mission, at EDF is to facilitate, this, conversation and, this exchange of best practice, so this we, also. Work a lot on on, building the capacity of the of, our, members, so, different. Organizations, of persons with disabilities, across Europe so we, also work, on this exchange. Of knowledge exchange. Of know-how, on. What. Country. Like you mentioned Norway is a very good example I would also say that my, my home country Spain, is also. Taking. Very good initiatives, with regards to to persons with disabilities, and we. Need to put this on. The agenda of the, other countries, but, also on the agenda of the EU as a whole because they. Sometimes. We forget about the, importance, of the euro we take it from grantee but they you have is. It's. A unique project, worldwide. That can actually. Make. Things, happen with. The right, political will, and it's a it's a great forum, to exchange this kind of policies, and go, for the best I mean take the best out of the different initiatives, on national level but but. What we discussed before the problem is that this, converging, forces, like, some countries. Just they. Just one day EU to deal with the internal market others. They want to go a bit more social, but not too much because the social policies, our national, competence, and so forth so this. Kind of discussions. Are very important. For. Politicians but also for NGOs and civil society organizations and this is something that a TDF we we, we bear in mind and we and we focus. A lot on this exchange of good practices, and building, the capacity of our members, I. I. Noticed. That when you're one, thing that I really like about there's, so many things I like about the work you're doing Alejandro, but. One. Thing that we noticed in the u.s. was this the. These you, know things that you were putting out we. Found them very valuable, and I there, was there's, a lot of us. Multinational. Corporations, that we're.
Actually, Considering. That what you're doing in the EU is. Easier. For them to easy, my is probably not the right word but it it, in. Really. Making sure that they are being accessible, they, think that you do a better job of explaining what, you expect, from, them to, be accessible, where, some of the law other laws that we've seen in other countries including in the United States, it's, so vague that. Often. I will see corporations. Going out trying to be accessible, and then they're like okay is that is that what you wanted okay, is this what you wanted and then of course we. Like to answer them in the US and. We talked about this before we went on air you, know we were, litigating a lot in the United States and our litigation is messy and problematic, and causes. Divides but, at the same time. It's. Driving, force it's in you, know we wish we didn't have to do that, we, wish more. So that corporations saw, the value, in including, everyone which includes people with disabilities in it by the way I think they do but. I've also heard, from there, was a very large. Corporation. In the United States that said that. Has been working on accessibility, for years and they. Said we do not think that the accessibility, community is able to really help us because yes. You have your standards, and you tell us to do all this stuff but. Actually applying. This to a, multi-billion. Dollar corporation with all these moving parts and all these you, know M&A, activities. And everything that's happening, they. Said it's not always very practical, and I've also seen some, organizations. Some. Corporations. Small accessibility. Corporations, in the u.s. sending, out blogs saying who, are you gonna call if somebody comes suing you we'll just have your lawyers call us and, so, some. Corporations. Are not feeling that, they are getting the support they need to truly be accessible, and I'm, sure that's happening all over the world so I think it's why the, work that you're doing and, what. We're doing here at access chat continuing, to turn up the volume on these conversations I, think it is more critical than, ever because, I, believe. Corporate, patient's want to. Do, this and. I understand. That's a stretch because some, of them want to do it because they don't want to get sued some of them want to do it they know it's the right thing but there's a lot of confusion. A lot, of concern, about how, do we actually do, this and what does this mean and how does this tie with all of the technology disruptions. Is happening, and it's. That's. Why I think the work that you are doing is so important, because I know every, time the, EU does something of the UK is doing something we're watching and we're trying to figure out how can we use that to help these corporations, and other entities, be more successful, with disability, inclusion oh and, one more comment I know that we have disability, indexes, and stuff in the United States and which is a really good effort but.
Often Accessibility. Is being left out of those, indexes. And I'm, sorry you can't you, can't have true disability, inclusion if your HR processes aren't accessible or your website or anything else so you. Cannot, leave accessibility. Out of these conversations and, inclusive, design and all that so I, think once again that's another really, good reason why the work you're doing is so important, yeah I mean. You touch upon many, topics. That I want, to react but. Let's. Start with the the I mean you, say that something, I mean Esther did litigation, is a driving force we. Know that and actually, sometimes. I. Can. Confess that I I wish, we could have, some. More strategic. Litigation in, Europe because, sometimes, we. Lack that kind of. Proactive. Reaction. To when, when, when. There is an infringement of, of, the, legislation, and and that brings me to what you mentioned at the beginning that. Sometimes. Is not clear what accessibility means and, because, accessibility is a vague term and. Sometimes, that that's the case and and we should acknowledge in, the disability community, that. Accessibility. Is not a black/white. Issue we know that there is a huge. Range of grace in between, and, and. Therefore, there are many different, levels of accessibility that, you can require. In a legislation, I'm talking just about the legislation, at the moment, therefore, you should be clear, on what, accessibility, means. When. You require accessibility, and we've, seen for. Instance in the use of the of the EU funds you know when there is a. Programs. That are funded by the by, the European. Union. There, is an obligation and, ex-ante. Obligation. To to make, sure that, those, funds. Are. Funding. Sorry. Accessibility. Or accessible, product services infrastructures. Built. Environment, and so forth the problem is that sometimes. That's. Just a. Requirement. That stays, in paper but not in practice because, the. People managing the funds the people procuring, the, the, bidders. So the company, is applying to those. Tenders, like I'm. You. You want me to develop a new mobile application okay, here. You have it but, those, that apply. To those, contracts. And, need to make them accessible sometimes, they don't they don't know because the procures don't know either what accessibility means and that's why it's very important, and I think that's one of the, really. Good, practice, from from the u.s. in with regards to accessibility legislation. To. Set. Out like really. Clear accessibility. Requirements, in the legislation, which are then. Further. Detailed, in in. A standard, in accessibility standard, which is in the end a technical, document that, the companies, are using, to to, develop their products, their services their, infrastructure.
And So, forth so, what. The the, problem that we we saw as I was mentioning as sometimes, fabbi procuring, which requires. To. Take, into account accessibility. And design for all users the, use of EU funds and so forth there, was not a, clear, understanding. Of, what this means so they were converging. How. Sorry diverging, so conflicting. Understandings. On what, this means at national level so for one country accessibility. Means this for another one it means that but, something. Very positive of, you that they can. Approximate. Those loss those understandings. And have a common, approach to to, accessibility and what it means at least to a certain level, to a minimum level. And this is what the accessibility. Act the the recently adopted accessibility. Act is. Is. Aiming at is setting. Out very. Clear, accessibility. Functional, accessibility requirements. For a set of products and services. Which. Are mandatory for, public procurement as, well so when a public authority will, procure a. Ticketing. Machine for example they will know that these. Are the accessibility, requirements that they need to ensure in their technical. Specifications. And then from from, these requirements, we, will have, standards. Which are these technical documents that the companies will use and therefore, will have. Certainty. That, they will be in conformity of, the, legislation, so, clear. Accessibility. Requirements. Is fundamental. So first the obligation, of course to the obligation, the accessibility, provision. Then accessibility, requirements. Clear accessibility, requirements, leading. To accessibility, standards, and then I would say also as you have in the US, and. A strong enforcement. Mechanism, and this is something that for instance in Europe we. Are lacking with regards to public procurement. Because, if you are a citizen and you see that suddenly your government, has created, at this new bridge to. Cross the, road the the highway, and that bridge, is not accessible. For people using wheelchairs you. Cannot omit, you can complain you could do the the city whole to court but who's gonna do that I mean we should have more, robust enforcement mechanisms. To ensure that citizens, they can lodge. Complaints, and they can refund right rights and they can go, and say hey this is not appropriate you need to make sure that the, obligation, is actually, fulfilled, and for, that we need a, strong legislation, a strongly legal framework, and a strong and robust. Enforcement. Mechanisms. For the users and the citizens, to to claim their rights and make sure that everybody, complies so. We. Are I would say that at Europe in Europe we are still, lagging behind with. Compared. To to the US still. But I mean now there is a chance that in the coming years. We we, can finally, catch up. Here. In Cork, we. Have we. Have to two projects, one is called cork healthy cities, and. The, other is the. Cork the. Irish participation. Network. That. Is. Represents. The. The. Areas. Like social inclusion, within.
Local Government, so. And in the, Parvin, I became a member of that in in the last in the last two years and we. Started to bring. The conversation about. Accessibility. Assassin, the, conversation, on inclusion were already part of it but, we start, to launch conversations. About. Accessibility. Requirements. In the project that we have been developing, so. What, the, groups do is. Advising. On policy, and we, are slowly starting to embed. Requirements. Who have discussions, about accessibility. In. Everything, that in everything. That we do so. This was something that was not there but. What I found is. People. Were just not doing, it because they were not aware not, because they didn't want it to do it so. We, have built that and we are trying. To find. Ways that local, government, understand, the needs because we have seen people talking about a smart. City project, so we are going to make this city a smart. City but what does that mean you know what, is the meaning of a smart city if you. People. Are not able to navigate through, the city and you, are just talking about building. Let's. Say. A. Lot, of technology. Or a tram that go, from A to B but, then someone with a wheelchair is not able to access to, that tram or the. Roads or the footpath, is, very is really, nice and beautiful for. Someone that is cycling, but, then a visually impaired user wants to cross, the road and there's, the the, the bicycle. Track in the middle and is, at risk so we are trying to have that conversations, and we, see that people are open, to it but. It's. We, have seen that developments. Here. In, in Cork but, I see that is. More, and more important, to try to to. Engage. In, this as more forms of public policy, but at the same time trying to you, know you, mentioned at the beginning of the forum that you you, are representing. Different groups within. Europe, and what, I found. Here in quark is we, need to find ways to bring. The. Different groups of of, people within disabilities, to us because. They are somehow separate, no and. That's been has been difficult, for us to find sometimes, a. Group. Locally. That, would. Operate like, like, EDF, that, we can talk with them and then they can reach out their different communities, that has been our challenge. The. Meaningful, participation on. Of. Persons, with disabilities, of like. The. Great extent. Possible and the, as. Many. People. As possible as, as, diverse, as possible is crucial. Is fundamental, otherwise. That's. How you achieve actually. A design. For all approach and. That's. Why it's, very important, and sorry, to go back to my previous. Response. It's very important, to establish this minimum, level of accessibility based, on a set of accessibility, requirements. But then and this. Is when it comes to to to your example it's. Very important, as well to. Build. On top of those so the. Legislation, can give you like, the minimum. Let's say they the adequate, level, that everybody should ensure but, then on. Top of that in, addition to to, that we, need to take into account the, the. Environment. The, context, of use because. Maybe cork where. You live is not the same, sure is not the same as my, hometown in Spain or, Oslo. In Norway so, we need to take into condos, those aspects, as well therefore. Having. A, legal. Framework that done that that can help us all, to. To ensure a minimum level doesn't mean that with that we are we. Are done no, no we. Need also, best. Practices and we need to go beyond, and we need to bring. People we, bring different. Disability. Groups. Organizations. Of older people. As. Many I mean in the end it's all about embracing human, diversity, and. Make. Our. Societies. Inclusive. 2 to, 12 so, that can, only be achieved through, meaningful. Involvement. Of everybody. Something. That we decided to do in this in. The in this group's is in in the past, the. The meetings, they used to be hosted, in the central place like the City Council and. Everything, happened in there and, we decided to move, the. Events, to. The to, host in different, organizations. Within, the city so last. The last meeting that we had happen. At an organization. That supports. Training. For people with learning disabilities. So. This allow all the members of the of the group to go there we. Host the meeting there and allow them to know more about that organization, mm-hmm. We, did a meeting.
About. Last. Year on, on a group that works with social sexual. Harassment, so, we we. Are somehow, decided to instead. Of being a centralized, and meeting in one place to, go around the city to to allow the members, to know the, different organizations. And also. Signaling. To those organizations, that we have an interest on and. Listening to them so we wish, if it shifted. That a little bit to. Also. To two-putt a little bit out of our own comfort zones, that's. Right important. And. I would also say, another thing that you talked about a Honda when you're talking about the procurement aspect. Of it that's. Something that, we think is so critical and I know that I was working on that years ago with, the US government, and we, have something, called a GSA, Schedule that. Technology. Providers. Join. So, that it's easy for the US government, to buy technology. Products, for them but, we found that very few. Of those. Providers. Were actually, you, know thinking. About our section, 508 which is accessibility, and so, I know that James. Thurston, when g3ict, and, Susan Scott Parker, with BT I have. Both been making. A lot of efforts, together. And I think a little together as well on the. Procurement aspect. Because if we can solve. Accessibility. At the procurement, level we're gonna solve a lot of problems and I was saying to the u.s. yeah, I, said the US government years, ago that, you. Actually take some of the burden from. The, government, and place it on the providers. By, making sure that language is in there because if you have. Across. The board the expectation. That everybody. Has to comply with our laws section, 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. Which, says everything. ICT, has to be accessible, then, you're sort of you're, sort of taking care of it at that point sort of and, and then the grassroots, efforts, that Antonio is talking about that they're doing in Cork I think, it's all of these moving parts and and I agree with what you're saying to a hundred, you know we it's. Very messy, here in the United States and it's very you. Know combative. But, at the same time if we didn't, have what. We sent called the carrot and the stick approach if we didn't have that stick there's no way we would have made the progress that, we've made in the United States and we. Have so far to go but, it's almost like we've, swung a little bit to. A problematic. Area, and that our lawyers, are very, smart and we, appreciate, that they hold, you know, entities. At, honorable to follow our laws we we, do appreciate that we wouldn't have safety belts we, wouldn't have backup, cameras so we don't want to accidentally back over our children I mean they're they. Play the lawyers play an important in part but we've all we also saw. It. Was we. Were, sort of scared of something. We were seeing in the States and that lawyers. Were suing, corporations. Because they weren't accessible and money. Was being made by the lawyers, but the lawyers were not holding, the companies, accountable, to go ahead and make their suit their, applications. Their internet their websites their HR processes accessible. So, the. Companies were getting sued but. Nothing was happening and so we have leaders, like Lainie, Feingold. Who has been on access. Chat before and others that have said no and. Jo, Manning, who is a lawyer that's very active in this he. Part. Of the litigation is, that you must make. Whatever you suing you about it must, be accessible that's part of yeah, you're gonna pay a really, really big fine, and, a, lot of money and you, know the corporation's, don't want, this. To hit our press and us to talk about they're a bad corporation, online. That's brand risk and all that stuff but there's, some hopeful things happening, with our litigation and that there. Are lawyers are starting to now say you, know you actually have to fix this because and, by, the way and pay all this money too so there's. Hopeful, signs but I think, it takes, all of this it takes a grassroots, efforts, it takes you, know all of the countries deciding, how to do it it takes the CRPD, it's it's, all of the moving parts and then of course the leaders that are engaged in these conversations and.
I Know I'll hand review and I've known each other for years and you have a wonderful. Career of really, trying to make a difference in this, space so you, know thank you for your leadership your, ongoing leadership. We. Do our best in to our best and, I. Think. So. Yeah. No no and I think it's the the push of the. Grassroots. And the push of. Disabled. People organizations the. Push of so. Many different, Stephen society, organization, in these travel, times I mean. It. Does make a difference and now. I mean we see also some pushback, from, other, other. Groups, and and we. Need to stay, firm and and keep moving, forwards because I, mean. Otherwise. We. Won't be realizing, the mode of the disability, movement nothing, about us without us so. We. Should be there and we should be in the discussion, that affect, our lives in all these areas and we should also, embrace. Diversity. Ourselves. And collaborate, with other civil, society organizations. We are doing that at EDF the, other day for instance we had a, training. To. Get to know ill, Europe, which is the organization representing, LGTB. Eye. Issues. And we found that they we, had so many, like. Challenges, in common and we we, found that we had so many like points, in which we could collaborate so. It's. Very important, also to. Open. Open. Up to, to. Collaborate, with others and we'll build, alliances. And. And also, overseas, now in from, Europe to to, the u.s. to the Pacific, to African. Countries to Asia to Latin America. I mean, in the end this is all about us and, we. Need to be we, need to be involved. From the from the outset and and, that brings me if I, may to. Something that I wanted to share with you because. For. The. Global. Awareness accessibility. Day we ETF. We will be launching, this. Report, that I'm showing is. A. Report. Titled. Black, and pray a disability. Perspective on, artificial. Intelligence, automatic. Decision-making, and emerging. Technologies, and I, believe, that this is an area in which we see, that there is a huge, impact for persons. With disabilities, both, on the, side of like positive, outcomes, but also on, risks. And concerns with, regards to. Bias. Discrimination. Further. Barriers, further, barriers, to access ICT, and so forth and we, thought that now, that it seems like artificial, intelligence, and all these what we called emerging technologies, are doing so much attention from for. Our. Tech. Companies, and policy. Makers and so forth is very important, that we. Get involved now as soon as possible, and we. We. Have, four say and we engage. In meaningful conversation. With everybody, about this before it's too late and then we need to go back and retrofit. The thing and it's. More cost of, costly. And so, it's, a moment to to start like talking. About these and and. Be. Involved. Agree. Agree I. Had. A conversation. Yesterday. With, someone. That usually does a lot of training with developers. In. Many different areas and you tell me at. The moment the. Training, that we need to do know that would impact would have an impact on on AI and, violin and. The, train that we need to do with developers, is not about code. Okay. We, need to change the, way out they look to the environment. Around them about empathy so. You tell me we don't really at the moment of, my training sessions, with, technical, people are, not are 80%, non-technical. Because, that's where we need to bring. Our focus in, in terms, of in terms of their training because they seem to, be missing out and not. Having, the ability to listen considering. That the level of complexity. Of what, they are doing edge, reached, a level so, we need to make sure that we fill in those gaps in. Order, to avoid some risks that can have social impact. This. Is a huge. Challenge for the tech. Industry. I would, say because. First. Of all the. Data set that, in. Which these, artificial. Intelligence. Lucian's are, based. I usually. Bias so. Are. Usually, thinking. That. That. Wedding. For example should be in, in. This certain way in, the western, way so the woman in a white dress the, man with a top seed or something so there, will always be this bias, that we need the tech on that the community, and the society as a whole we need to, correct trying to look for fairness. Even though this is a very very, very difficult concept. To to. To. To. Put clearly. In technology. Solution, but. The, key, here is to as, you mention is to make them understand. How. To to to open their eyes and see that there is no such, a thing as an, average user, they. Always think of. A. White, young man that is very clean, and fancy, on technology, that will sort. The his, way out in, will. Know how to do things even though the layout, may change every now and then and, it would get more difficult so.
We. Need to, fall. For the developers. We. Also need to be in contact with them and we need to discuss, with them and we need to show them that the the. People. Either are diverse, and the different. Contexts. Of use in which you you are gonna put. The technology. To. Work are very different from each other and similarly. The. Procuress, of duck technology, so imagine. That a company, wants. To purchase, an. Artificial, intelligence, based, application. To run the recruitment of, a. Recruitment, process, so, that company, must. Make, sure that the, AI. Solution. Won't. Discriminate, against. People who are not. Tagged. As the average, or the kind, of, the. The, the average user or the average person. That they have in mind so the AI. Solution, does not discriminate, people who, may be seen. As different, because. Of the biased, data, set so all this is a huge challenge I mean it's really exciting, discussion. There are very exciting discussions, about it and the. Disability community we. Need to be there and we need to make our voices, heard as water because. This, is definitely. A driving, force in the in the coming years in many society, it can be a huge enabler for many. Societies. And many many. People including, persons with disabilities, in it can support, our. Participation. In. In. All aspects of life and on our independent, living think, of like smart. Homes, robotics. Virtual. And voice assistance. That are already available, on the market all these solutions will, tend to get, more, and more present in our everyday life it, smart home appliances, I mean I can't wait to, have a smart. Washing, machine which doesn't mean that it does my laundry for me but I can control it from my smartphone. Using my assistive, technology, so, all these things are coming are already there and we need to make sure that these, solutions. Are actually, designed, for as many. People as possible. Well. Said well said and and. You had made a point I just want to remind, the disability, community of, this but you had made a point earlier about nothing. About us without us people, with disabilities, have to be in these important. Conversations and, the the mainstream, conversations, about the AI and the robotics, and the autonomous. Vehicles, and the Internet of Things totally. Agree and that once again we're trying to do those conversations on, access chat and other places but. At the same time I do want to remind. The, community of people with disabilities, we also have to walk the walk we are actually seeing more. Disability. Organizations. And, groups. That support, people with disabilities getting. Sued because. They're not accessible, if you're, if, the people that you're trying to support your members, your customers, the. You know are people with disabilities, and you're a disability, organization, you have to follow the rules too you, also have to be accessible in it I I had, one group come to me and they're like we're. Getting sued and I'm like well. What you do for a living is outfit. Cars so that people with disabilities, can drive them how. Why. Would you not be accessible, of. Course I didn't talk to them like that because we don't want to discourage them but we, also have, to walk the walk within our own community. Which is interesting but Alejandra. I think. We could talk to you day for, just days we, just appreciate everything. You're doing in and we can't wait to see that report come out on God, so happy global. Accessibility. Awareness. Day that's, coming up on May 16th, but. We. Want to take the time to thank, Barclays, access, micro, link my clear text for, all of the ongoing support that they do with access chat Antonio, I don't know if you wanted to make, a final comment I can turn it over to you I can, see you look eager, to say something. I actually. I was just. Keeping. Myself reminded. To. Say thank you to them just, in case. We. All need to celebrate God you, know and I'm so really. Glad you're putting out their report. But. You know even little things like and I've got I don't, want to be the mother of the group nagging but we'll. See, you, know wonderful. You. Know reports. Come out and and. Often they're not oftentimes, they're not accessible it's, like so we also have, to walk the walk we, as the community and. It's. Surprises, that we even produced it also an easy to read as well oh. Yes. So you. Know it's it's, like we. We hear people whining about, captioning. Videos it's I. Don't care if it's hard we.
All Have to walk the walk to show everybody else you know this, is the way we lead we include everybody I don't care if it's an extra hassle do it and it's. Becoming easier and easier to do well but that's, what we're trying to do so we, really, really appreciate your leadership and everything you're doing and I'm looking forward to getting that report so thank you for being on access chat today thank, you for the invitation.