13 - Scott Monty and AJ Huisman on Future Disruptions
Well. Nice to finally see you Scott it is nice to see you again my friend I I. Kind. Of like I said I was just about, to. Reach. Out in Boston but, it kind of never materialized, I'm very happy to see you now yeah well you know Boston is, a I, mean, it's a fantastic, City overall, I spent, 20 years there myself did my, undergraduate. Graduate. Work and started my career there and now of course it's it's home to a content, marketing world and and other, conferences, on nuts content my career MarketingProfs, yeah, but. That brings us to, here. In Cleveland, yeah right now are you are you a regular here in Cleveland well. Basically yes, I, met. Joe when I, was, in Belgium in, 2010. I was, working at Towers, Watson at the time an American consultancy, company and, I told him my story and he said well what you're doing is basically content, so I'm, doing a little get-together in, in, September, 2011, why don't you come over and, tell your story so. I said okay. And I hopped on a plane and I went to the Renaissance, and. Boom. I was there but it was it was just like that like like Joe said you should come over and yeah you that. That's pretty, impressive yeah that's what I thought well convince, you to come overseas, for, yes you. Know a little conference I mean yeah, and it was good fun I mean I I, basically. Learned, the, fact that I was, doing content. At. A and another conference, in Amsterdam with. Seth, Godin and I. Thought, hey, I never, heard of geopolitical, context. Or whatever right, and then. One. Of my friends invited, me to this dinner in Belgium and then, I met, Joe and he said come on over and then I started, reading all these books. And whatever and, and. And then I crossed and Hadley, and CT Chapman in the hall of the Renaissance, and hey see. He did not know who I was obviously, so did it now what do you do these days and I thought oh no he doesn't obviously know who I am so yeah, that was good fun everywhere the risk six hundred people there I had. To. Go. After Marcus, Sheridan on stage so that was a really. Nice act to follow but. So. It's uh so, what's your assessment when. You compare. The. Marketing, industry in, Europe mm. To that, of the United States, to. Me it seemed, like there's always been a bit of a lag in terms of adoption mm-hmm.
Social, Media in particular yeah. How about as far as content, marketing, have you have you seen kind, of a parallel growth is, one a little bit ahead of the other well. And I pardoned up with with. Birds one of my mates, who, I'm who I met here at cousin Martin world a few years ago and, we. Don't have a company called content marketing fast forward and we did a research study a few years ago on, the, maturity level of, content. Marketing in Europe and, we, found out that it was. Lagging. A little bit behind so, getting there I mean the UK was about I think, half a year behind or something and mainland, Europe about a year or something but it. Was not bad no and I think we're gaining very fast so we. Have access to the English language literature, and it's, kind of an entrepreneurial. Spirit. If you will so the, Nordics and the Western Europe are getting. Better at it southern Europe is a bit more difficult because of the fact that well. They're they're relying, more on other, tactics, and again. So. I, think, we're getting there yes okay so, what. Do you what do you feel like right now at least it is the driving force, in. Content, marketing but what's providing, the most, momentum. Going, forward. Yeah. That's a very good question, I. Mean. There's so much out there I mean we've just started this conference and, we've, been already been bombarded, with all things that are that, are new and and up-and-coming and video, and, and AI and what-have-you so. I'm very interested I've not made my mind up yet what do you think. Well. Certainly, I, think, getting automation, is. Getting, a fair a. Fair. Bit, of conversation, right now and I think that, the. The challenge, and when you talk about marketing automation it's, seen you know your traditional, CRM stuff, but now we're seeing it creep into. Artificial. Intelligence. More, and. It's. Been shown that BOTS. Can. Can. Create, content just. Like humans can now. I'm. Well. While I acknowledge. That that happens, that. That is possible, I. Still. Wonder, whether, it's reasonable, that, AI. Can, create content, that is quite, as emotionally, compelling, as. Humans, can I mean, I do you, think that's a question of time because, a eyes can do a lot already. And, and. Through machine learning, I guess they will do a lot more in the coming years. I I think that's the case I think that the systems, are getting smarter. I. Don't, think it is. Necessarily. Fair. To simply dismiss them because they're machines hmm. I think we've seen over and over again that that machine learning, actually. Not. Only, can. Mimic, and. Compete. With, humans, but. In some cases may surpass. Humans, I mean you think about what what. The reasonable, need right now is for an editor you know, a writer does his, or her job and then an editor, goes. Through that and cleans, it up essentially, well if. You're doing AI, generated.
Content. Why. Do you need an editor anymore, so. Basically what you're saying is maybe there's gonna be a shake, out of people that are doing. Maybe. Commodity. Work or maybe, average. Work like Jay Coons who said this morning there's a lot of things going on and everybody is. Doing average stuff like everybody else is so it's well, one, would hope that we get rid of the mediocre, but then what what happens you know then now all of a sudden you've got a shift. The. Core group of people that are suddenly more. Talented, than they were before so, that's. The new average who's. Exceptional. In that situation. I think, in so ours being raised at that point to be huh yes, I'd you, know is there an element of human creativity. That. Can't be surpassed, by AI hmm. I don't, know the answer to that well. The funny thing is in Holland, we had an experiment done. By a big brand and they, put. Together. An, algorithm. That would paint the next Rembrandt, and, so. They looked at all the pictures of Rembrandt over the course of the last year's that he was alive obviously and, then. They. Said okay to, the machine now Rick recreate, that that, was a genuine, great. Piece of content that they made a hell movie and video about it it, was astonishing that, it, was actually looking. Like an undiscovered. Rembrandt, if you will so, maybe that. Is that. Is the future of, creating. Content I'm not really sure like you said if, BOTS. Or machines, can be as creative as, humans, can be but. It. Would probably be very scary, as well well that's the thing I mean to. The degree they can mimic. The. Known. Where. Is the opportunity, for the unknown and to me that's where the human creativity, comes. From is is by being inspired by. Different. Things and being able to bring those things together to create something, new I. Mean. When you describe it like that's certainly a machine, can process two, disparate. Things and and go, in a third direction, but, how. Likely is, it that anything, will. Come of that you, know I know I know the the, people that are Pro AI will. Tell you that that's coming. And. And the skeptics, like. Me I guess we'll. See you know there is still some. There's. Still some corner of the human mind that, will remain forever unique. That. Will remain the. The. Unpredictable. The creative, the, artistic. That even, through a machine learning, I don't, think you can teach, and. Do you think that that will always, be the case I. Mean. That's a bit of a high horse, a ball I guess right whether, it's likely or not I. Think. In the next in, the. Next five, to ten years we're going to see. Massive. Massive. Progress. In this area the. 10 to 20 years, beyond that I think. Is anyone's guess at, this point. On. The other side of the spectrum humans. Actually, humans have, a lot of. Technology. Now just, to produce, contents. And. The. Barrier, to entry is almost, none I mean my son is an avid content, maker he has a YouTube, channel and, he's, very good at a video and editing, and what-have-you, what's what's, his topic what does he what does he make videos about um. He. Makes. Stop-motion. Movies he's very creative nice. 12 and. He. Tends to go to the mall and in, the few people with his friends, that's. Really interesting how. Old is your son he's 12 he's 12 and he still goes to the mall yeah, there, there have been instances where. At. Least here in America we've seen teams. Kind. Of issuing, them all saying, you know what I can connect with my friends on snapchat yeah. Instagram. On YouTube on FaceTime through, you. Know no longer do we need to wait, for mom and dad to ask for a ride yeah, to the mall were connected, already but the fact that he actually still sees value yeah. In. FaceTime. Literal, FaceTime, it don't make, mechanical FaceTime. Yeah that's really, encouraging yeah, I must. Admit that he's. He's. He's going a little bit of away from that actual FaceTime, and now, since. I gave my old Mac he's now doing all. Kinds of other things online, which I thought I gave, him the Mac to just edit, the videos and, I was using the Mac to play like what. Gaming and, minecraft. Minecraft'. Horsies, on my, crafting. And he's facetiming. His friends, and skyping, his buddies to create. Things online so that okay, this is backfiring. Now to me because that, was not the point of giving him the Mac right so yeah. Well, I think. When. You think about youth. And. Technology. It's. Like it's. Like water, water. Will always find a way through something you. Know it, will either find its way through the smallest crack or if. The crack isn't big enough it will find its way around true. And I think, teens. And preteens and.
Technology, They will find a way to work with these things and that's that's, not just teens and preteens I mean that's that's a human, thing that we, are naturally, we are in naturally, curious species. Hmm, and we. Want to we want to understand the mechanics behind, stuff we're under want to understand the why we. Want and we want to communicate with other people and if there is a shortcut, that, allows us to do that it. Will take we will take that all day long right. I'm. Not really sure how it is here in the US but, our marketers. Educated. In a way that. Looks. Forward instead of backwards I, mean I mean are they, are. The new marketers, there that, come on the market. The. Hybrid markets that we've been hearing so much about it's, the education system. On marketing. In the US yeah a good one or are. They just. Rehashing. Old marketing, material, and then. When. They come on the Maury said oh my god what's happening, I'm not really sure what's going on, what's. Interesting because. You. Know I see. People. Discovering. These, concepts, that again. Have. Been around not only for five ten years, maybe. 50, 60 70, years in, the world of marketing, you. Know and, that's why you. Know I talked, about this in in, my speech earlier. Today. Understanding. The fundamentals. Of the human condition. Understanding. What motivates people. Having. An appreciation for history and literature. And, the classics, we, and will look back to. Be able to, predict. The future hmm, I think it's absolutely essential, for marketers, because otherwise, you're. Stuck in a a fairly, small. Window. Of time where. You're just looking at trends, from the last five years and, into the next five years and you. Go back another five. Years fifteen years before that you'll see stuff that can, actually help you avoid, mistakes, that. You're about to make albeit, on on different, platforms and with different technologies, and and are these youngsters then looking, back that's far to take that baggage, forward. Or not I don't I don't think they are I mean you.
Know Probably. You. Know you share. This with me and that is you've. Earned, your scars, you. Know you've learned from mistakes, you've. Observed, the marketplace you've observed, some of the major players in the market and you've. Seen what works you've. Also seen what doesn't work yeah and it. Is by virtue of, your unique experience during. This particular time, and place that. You practiced. Your craft that you, were able to hone. Your worldview. About. Business, about marketing, about human, beings, there's. Someone just coming out of school doesn't. Have the benefit of that experience, and you know this is not something that's unique to 2017. Generations. Have been dealing with this since time immemorial. But. Do you think they still have that persistence. To. Mother. The mother along if you will and and, because. III. Come, at companies, and, and and there are people there and that after a few months it's very difficult so we're gonna move on you know. Is. That the sign of the times of the generation, they were coming, to market now or is it just I think I chalk that up to human nature I don't think that it's unique to this. This. Generation. I. You think. And. I'm not just talking about about marketing. And business now, that I think just generationally. I think. Previous. Generations. Read. A lot, more yeah. In actual books you mean yeah. Books, still work yeah, and and. And in as much as. Ebooks. Were supposed to overtake. Hardcopy. Books, five. Years ago they still have yeah, although I love my Kindle what's, that although I love my Kindle a well of Quinns really handy and and why why do you love your Kindle, well. Because you can actually highlight. Stuff and then you can afterwards. You'd like to have automatic. Summary and things where, I normally tend, to do, books and then, yellow. How, do it and which. Takes, a lot of time to recap, things what it does and then it's, not easy to search now in your physical, library, right through again you. Know what else is that, when. You get on a plane with. A Kindle. You. Can carry your entire library yeah, I do whereas. You're, lucky if you can get one thick book with you answer, your briefcase so, better, and, I benefit, there that's true but. I like I said like the the feel of the books I'm a bit of a white fashion hungry, and to me there is no better smell in. World than, walking into a used book job yeah yeah that, is pure love but kind. Of getting back to this you know I think the. The. Day and age were in now we're, you. Know notifications. And text alerts, and Instagram, messages, and and. All. The rest are, vying. For our attention and, are interrupting, us every single day I think we've lost the ability to. Concentrate. On the long form whether. It's long form online or long form in a physical, book yeah, and I think that to. Me as a classics, major as an undergrad. This. Is where I got the most value is being able to read critically yeah, and to think and to write and to and, to process, things and bring them together you. Know I wasn't. Interrupted. By all these things. And. I almost feel like personally. Like like I've lost that ability now myself, III, would agree with that I mean it's very difficult if. I. See my children. Studying. Or, reading or, doing all kinds of things. That need their attention I always. Say come on get rid of the iPhone I, mean get rid of that the social pressure that they are under that. Is incredible, because I mean if they, don't snapchat, for a day then hope they lose the whole story thing you know and they give their password. To friends, who then. Text, for them or whatever I mean. It. Kind of mind-boggling, for me that. They said that, suck that's that that there is so much pressure on them to be online all, the time so. Having the attention span. Back. To them to actually, read a book or do something else it's. Very hard because. The social pressure of being in. The game and having the community online all. The time it's very high well. You, know to kind of circle back to the, top of our conversation, where we were, talking about AI yeah.
And Machine, learning a. Machine. Can digest all. Of those books they, could have digests, the the, material, from centuries. Of, content, and. Now. On the other side on the human side if, you've. Got youth that. Has, trouble getting through a hundred and forty characters yeah. And, and it you, know that the two are are just just feeding into each other where you got this lack of interest, or lack of ability, to. Concentrate on the long form and process everything. That it means along, with machines, that are doing it better than you ever could in the first place yeah that's. A that's a really. Dystopian. Future, if. That's all are we doing what's, that are we doomed I hope. Not I don't, I don't think humans will allow that to happen there's rankly, I, don't, want to I want to end this on a high. Really, sour note right but, I I, think we're better than that and I think we can recognize, when. Certainly. When our species is. Is. Being affected but also. Just. Reading. And, processing, these things for pure enjoyment yeah. You know I think we'll always want that and, is, that something that we can take in to, account for, the. Future generation, of marketer, as well I mean do, they have to be taught to relax, and chill and, actually. Read some more stuff from the past to take forward I would hope that the, marketers, of the future would be naturally, curious and want. To absorb this stuff on their own and. I think that again that's where the. Best marketers, come from is people that are interested in the. The, science, of marketing you know the hard facts and analytics, and all the ins, and outs they need to learn and on. The, soft side you know where, it takes a little more thinking it takes empathy, mm-hmm, and and it takes processing. Of you. Know some of these great concepts, and. So that, journalistic, mind that you talk about that'sthat's, great for content marketing, obviously then I would. Hope so yeah I would hope so. Sometimes. We're not doing. Well. Nice, to be human with you sir, Thanks. Thank. You.