What is SOCIETY 4.0? | Bob de Wit | TBCY

What is SOCIETY 4.0? | Bob de Wit | TBCY

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Welcome to another episode of The Brand Called  You. A vodcast and podcast show that brings you   leadership lessons, knowledge, experience and  wisdom from hundreds of successful individuals   from around the world. I'm your host, Ashutosh  Garg and today I'm privileged and delighted   to welcome a very, very well known academician,  author, strategic thinker from the Netherlands   Professor Bob De Wit. Bob, welcome to show. Thank you very much nice to be with you. Thank you. Professor Bob De Wit is an  author. He's written a book titled The society  

4.0, resolving eight key issues to building  a citizen society, you can see the book just   behind him. He's also written a book on strategy,  and we'll talk about that on some other show.   He is the owner of a firm title, the  strategy works. And most importantly,  

he is the professor of strategic leadership at the  Nyenrode Business University in the Netherlands.   So, Bob, let's talk about your  book, Society 4.0,   which is resolving eight key  issues to build a citizen society.   Let's start with what are the three kinds of  societies that humans have established to date? Yeah, maybe as an introduction, my field is  to understand the future. I'm a strategist.  

So I'm well known, well used to for  30 years to pick a weak signals,   and understand what it means for the future.  And eight years ago, it's occurred to me that,   increasingly a number of digital  technologies, but also other technologies,   we're getting more prominence in the  strategy and visions of organizations.   That was at a time when there was a book published  by Jeremy Rifkin, the third industrial revolution.   And from the beginning, idea that was not  correct, but I do know what it was. And in 2017,   I delivered an inaugural speech and  while writing that speech, I understood what was   wrong with that statement. And you can  see that on the title, you cannot read it,   but I can share the title of that  thing, which is called on the eve of a socialist   revolution. So in 2017, I already predicted as a  result of a number of developments in technology,  

but also other developments, that society itself  was going to change. Now, one that was delivering   all kinds of speeches on that, so people said, you  know, I don't see anything, you know, so you must   be wrong. And in the beginning of 2020, then there  was, you know, there was, you know what it was  and I recognize that's crisis as a societal  crisis as the beginning of this change. And then   I decided to write this book, and to finish the  book, Society 4.0. So basically, what I'm saying   is that we have left the industrial society, and  we have begun building a new society, which has a   different kind of value creation, now 1-2-3-4, and  where it come from? Well, society 1.0 was a  

feudal society. That was for 1000s of years.  And the main driver for economic value was   land ownership. Because if you have a lot of  land ownership, you could create agricultural   products. So if you have land, you were rich and  powerful. And if you have no land, you were poor   and powerless, basically, what it does, and then  at the ends of that of that society 1.0  

there wasn't different kinds of economic  value creation, which were straight. And well,   we know that both because you're from India,  you're traders. I'm from the Netherlands,   we are also traders. And if I take the  example of my country, the Netherlands,  

we were very strategically located on the land  to Europe, but also on the sea we had a notic   backgrounds. So we started trading. Now, we had  a lot of trade cities, and in a trade cities,   the traders were getting more  important than land owners.   Because yeah, if you trade there's nothing here  you have nothing with lands. So step by step,   the Netherlands changed, but also other countries  changed from land ownership to trade. So it'll be   became a republic. So that's a different kind  of society, from a feudal society to Republic,  

from land ownership to trade, that was society  2.0 and then came the third society   which began in England with  the Industrial Revolution.   And that was that you know with beginning of the  machine, Spinning Jenny was the first machine   by steam engine powered engine. Well, one  machine is not changing society, two and three.   or not, but at some time, the economic value  creation by industrial mass production became   larger than by trades. And then again, we  got the revolution, Industrial Revolution.   And then we were working a couple of years of  building an industrial society, which was, again,   different from the previous ones. Now, my point  is that we have left that industrial society,   and we are building and a digital society. And  between societies, there's always a lot of unrest.  

People have different perspectives and  ideas what the best society is going to be.   That was the same, you know, in the  beginning of the industrial society,   you had people said, you know, in this society  must be on capitalism, or socialism and communism   and Leninism. And Marxism, you know, all kinds  of people were thinking about that society.   Well, that's kind of philosopher is what  I'm also. So I'm thinking about how that  

future society is going to look like,  which is Society 4.0 Fantastic. What a great explanation.  So before I proceed any further, Bob,   for our viewers and listeners, help us understand  what is your definition of a citizen society? Yeah. This is a very good question. You  know, in my book, I do basically two things.   One is I give explanation of the time that  we live in, we live between societies,   has nothing to do with health, it has to do  with that we live between societies. And,   as always, between societies, there has been  different perspectives on that future society.   And in every episodes, it was a  sort of struggle between a top down society   and a bottom up society. So there were people  who said, you know, we have to lead the country,  

by the experts, by the rich and powerful,  you know, and then the population has to follow,   which is a sort of elite society, a top down. And  bottom up is more that you make a society   which good for everyone in the country for all  the citizens. And the struggle that we're in   right now, is that there are large companies, some  of the companies are larger than most countries,   not larger than India. But in the Netherlands,  the large tech companies and the finance and the   pharma organizations are larger than  Germany, and Holland and England.   So there's a power shift, and will also happen  is that most of the public issues are   also being resolved at the global level by NGOs,  nongovernmental organizations, United Nations,   and all kinds of charities and all that. Now,  the thing is that these companies, I call them   corporate states, because they're making the rules  now, corporate states, the NGOs, United Nations,   there are no democracies. So what they are saying  is that what we need for the future society  

is that we put the decisions, the big decisions in  the hands of the elite, which is the NGOs and the   large organizations and carriers and charities,  that is, you know, their vision is that you make,   again, a top down society, a feudal society,  was this time at the global level. That is one   of those societies, I call that  a elite reset society, you know, with refers to   the World Economic Forum, of course. And  what I did in my book, is also to develop an   alternative future vision on Society 4.0.  So I started rethinking how can we develop   a new society, which is good for everyone, for  all the citizens. I call the citizen of society. 

Now, and in citizen of society,  and that has to do with the changing,   the development of technology. On the one hand,  you have to work do something at a global level.   But also, the technologies make it possible  to organize your society at a regional level.   And that's why I call it a glocal citizens, you  know, so you live local, but you also live   global. A good example is my daughter,  by the way, she lives in Spain at the moment.   She lives in a very local community very close  to nature. At the same time, she has a coaching   practice on Instagram and Facebook. She works on  the global level, digitally, but at the same time   in a regional level. So my vision is that you  build up a new society on the basis of regions.  

And then you make some kind of connections and the decision at the   global level. Fascinating. So, Bob, you also talk about   eight key issues to build a citizen  society. What are these eight issues? Yeah, what I tried to do is to distinguish  what are the differences of between a   elite reset society and a global citizen society?  So I went to all the different topics, how   you design a new citizen, one of them well there, there are a number of things. One is   income distribution. And income distribution  means that do you want to have a society in which   most of the economic value goes to an elite or  do we want to have a society which sort of short   of equal for older citizens that you can live  from it? So income distribution is a big issue.   In the last, from the 70s, the economic value of  the lowest 50% in a country has haft. So from all  

the gross national products, the half  the lowest half of the population, has less   than half of the income as in the 1970s. So  there's an increase of income distribution to an elite. That's it, that's the difference. So,  do you want again that you have to enter income   to elites or do you want to income to the citizens and interestingly is that   it is possible to develop especially  on the blockchain technology, well,   it has a lot of to work with technology  like blockchain and artificial intelligence   industry platforms. It is possible to make a blockchain   and then put regional currencies on  that. So you can make a sort of societal  

money, which you can share in a region, and from  there and you can develop everything you can   produce everything, for example, with 3D printing,  you can print most of the things that you need,   you can make a city farms to make your own foods.  So, a lot of the things that you need, so which is   food or water, electricity, you know, and education, healthcare, with the new technology   can do that on a regional level. So, you can  make regional economies, regional societies,   and which serve most of the needs that  we have as human beings. Now, if you do that,   then you make a local economy in which you  share all the economic value that you create   in a region, and that is more much more equal. Okay. You know, when I was reading about you,   and Society 4.0, you also say that society 4.0  will be an era of advanced digitization. What  

according to you are the top three digital trends  that you are seeing that will impact the world? Well, definitely the most important one is  the development of artificial intelligence.   And that's already maybe you remember that  in 1997, there was the first product of   artificial intelligence that was a chess computer  from IBM. Remember that Kasparov, by   far the most, had the best chess player  in the world was challenged by IBM with   deep blue to play to chess. And he said, You  know, I'm sure that-that will win, you know, come   on with your computer, because I'm much better  than that. Now, he won the game, and then  

he only lost, you know, and he was devastated.  And that was the first that was the first moments   when humans were defeated by machine by  artificial intelligence. Now, that was what   we called rule based artificial intelligence and from then on, the development of   artificial intelligence went on in the Santa  Fe Institute for Complex Systems, for example,   and the expectation that within   five years, artificial intelligence will surpass human beings, and that there's  not just memory or analytic   abilities, that's what we call human level of  intelligence. Everything that we humans can do,  

what our intelligence is, can also be taken  over by computers, that's called a Turing test,   maybe you notice, the Turing test is you can test  whether it's a machine or a human being. And within five years, we cannot distinguish  anymore between humans and machines. Now, what   this means is that why are the seven half billion  people on this planet? There's not because we are   stronger or because we run faster. That's  because we're smarter. So within five years,   the machines will be smarter than human  beings that has enormous consequences. And,  

five years ago, also Elon Musk, well known,  he said, you know, the most dangerous technology   is artificial intelligence that will surpass human  beings, they will have an IQ of 200 or 300. So, my   conclusion, and that's interesting for Elon Musk  is it and therefore, I'm going to upgrade myself.   So he developed a company called Neuralink maybe heard on that? Yeah. And with Neuralink he made a connection between the human brains and  artificial intelligence. So you make small wires,  

and you're on the skull. And then you combine the  human brain with artificial intelligence. Now,   a couple of months ago, that was the first  result or the first success of Neuralink.   It was published in the newspaper, big success  for Neuro link because they upgraded pigs. Yeah,   so did this experiment on the pigs, it was  success. Well, it was not set what the success   was. So then my imagination goes illusion now that  I think they're dancing on their feet or   something, I don't know what intelligence  deal with but it was success. And a couple of  

weeks ago, it was also applied on  monkeys, you can see that on YouTube, there   were a number of those things, which means that  monkeys were sitting behind the screen playing   computer games, you know, from children, so they  have upgraded monkeys. So within five years,   there will be people that upgrade  themselves with artificial intelligence, there will be then humans that have an artificial  intelligence of 200, you know, IQ of 200-300.   And then you have the difference, which he you  know, those we call the shy works, you know,   advanced humans, human the technology  combinations, though cyborgs,   in five years will have an IQ of 200. You know,  Elon Musk and or others. which compares   to humans the same as from humans do to ants. I mean, that's a big difference. Yeah. And here,   again, you have had it, that's a  big development, but you can also take robots. And   with artificial intelligence, it gets artificial intelligent robots with an IQ of 200, you   know, these are big things. Yeah. And  we are not thinking about it. But these  

are ethical questions that we have to discuss,  you know, on, what are we going to do with it?   Because we can use this artificial talents to  repair the brains of people with brain damage   on the one hand, and then you take it  for the goods. And then you get a sort of elite people with a different kind of IQ status. Very interesting. There's another technology if you  

don't mind. Yeah. Because you're asking  three so this was one. The other is biotech,   which is called CRISPR/Cas 9 technology. Now,  the CRISPR/Cas 9 technology has the ability   to cut and paste in human DNA. Last  year, the American and   the Frenchman got a Nobel Prize for this.  So it is a very important technology.  

And then it was invented, you can cut  and paste with human DNA. Now then I said,   Wow, this is fundamental. We have to think  about it. So there was a discussion to think about   it. But meanwhile, one of those research people,  Professor was called from   from China. He was a Chinese professor. He was  called from China. It was a Chinese billionaire.   And he says, I have heard about the CRISPR/Cas 9 technology. Yes, yes, yes. Well, I have HIV,  

can you get it out of my DNA? He said, I  think so. So he went to China, he got a   big laboratory for a million. And then he took  the DNA of this billionaire, Chinese, he   cut out the HIV, then he combined that with the  DNA of his wife, then use the IVF technology to   bring it into the woman. And nine months later,  it was the birth of Lulu and Nana, these were   the first designer babies in the world. Wow. And  then the world says, you know, I don't want that,   you know, we are not going to design babies behind the screen. And then the  

Chinese okay, then we will stop. I'm not sure if  they stopped, actually. So it is well possible   that somewhere in China or other places in the  world, we don't know that there will be factories,   making babies, you know, on the basis of picking  the human DNA, human genome and see what   will be the right things to do. Here again,  you know, this is very fundamental technology.   And again, it's about ethical questions. Because  on the one hand, we can use this technology   to cut out all kinds of diseases, you know, I have  family disease in my family, which is Alzheimer, and if my daughter said, I want  to cut out the old Alzheimer out of the   DNA before I made babies, I can understand that,  you know, so you can improve the world by   using this technology in a good way. But you  can also use the technology to make sure that  

super human, you know, you cut and paste a human  DNA somewhere in the factory and make a special   kind of Sapiens say 2.0 or 3.0. Now, this  is also a technology with very fundamental   for the future of humanity. And one of  the other issues that I discussed in my book,   what is the governance of this kind of questions?  How do we do this? You know, because these are   fundamental ethical issues on technologies and the  results of that on humanity. And who is going to  

decide what to do? And then come back to two societies was that, do we leave   it to an elite? What we do with it?  Is that the NGOs and on democratic organizations   and the corporate state Sikora, corporations  making that decision? Well, then I know what   the outcome is. Or are we going to do it a more  democratic way? And do we make sure   that, do we make a sort of our governments  from citizens and make the decision which   is good for for society and citizens in general. Wow. These are the kinds of questions that are very  fundamental, and it will be within five years.

Wow. So, Bob, let's talk a little bit about the  ethical issue. You referred to it a few minutes   ago, when we're talking. The world already has a  very big gap between the have's and the have not's.   Yeah, increasingly. My own impression has been  that digitization, democracy will be able to bring   the haves and the have nots closer. From  what I'm hearing from you, the gap is probably   going to get wider, because those who have  technology will get exceptionally wealthy,   and those who don't will be left stranded. Well, it is a trend already started in the 70s.  

Yeah, so that difference, the haves and have  nots has been changed since the 70s. And that   will continue. If we don't interfere,  it will continue for more times,   the hope that I bring in my book is  that you can also design a different society,   and then using the technologies to bring  that societies itself creates   economic value. If I again, if you take the basis  of the future science as a region, and you use   all the technologies that humans  need, have for having a good living.   And you don't need the global players anymore.  Yeah, with 3D printing, you can print most  

of the things with on the blockchain  technology can make your own cryptocurrency.   There are also technologies like Robles,  you can develop your own foods with robots.   With biotech, you can produce the most things  that you need. Also hospitals can be you don't   need large hospitals with the technology can  also make smaller hospitals on a regional scale,   safer education. So my hope is that if you develop  a regional society, with a regional economy,   you can make a more equal world, you can make a  better world with the same technologies. Again,   you know, it's your choice. What we do with the  technologies is to serve the elites or is it to  

serve the citizens and the technologies are  neutral. You know, it's what we do with   it. And the hope that I give is that with all  the technologies, we can make a better world as a regional level. And then we have to work  together and stand together and start working   on making a better world and that is possible. Amazing. So I have time for one more question for   you. And I was debating what to ask you. But I  think I would like to stay with the digital world  

that you have been talking about. And such a fascinating picture you have painted   a digital world Professor assumes there are  no boundaries because they can cut across   all boundaries. Yeah. What will happen  with the world now putting up boundaries,   every country becoming very insular, inward  looking, everyone saying making their own country.  What will be the impact on the people, the  countries and the owners of the technology? Can you explain exactly the question again? No, I'm saying that, you know,   the digital world means there should be no  boundaries in the world because digital   communication happens all the time. Yeah. But our  politicians are putting up physical boundaries.   Yeah. How will the digital world clash with these artificial walls that   are coming up all over again? Yeah. It has to do with how the governance of  

nation states in it has been a skill increase in  the economy, it was very local, and there were   regional, there were countries and as worldwide,  so there was upscaling to the global level.   And in the industrial society, because  of mass production, country borders became more   important and most important political decision  were taking place at a national   level. Now, the technologies make it possible  to go to the regional level, which would make   it smaller at a lower level. And basically is  more or less. So it also works at a global level.   So there will be a vacuum between the regional  level and the global level. So most of the nation   states developments or the nation states,  decision making is becoming more irrelevant,   you know, it's getting less importance. So at the  national level, there will be a problem, because  

what did you choose? Do you choose to serve the  elites? Or do you choose to serve the society?   That will be a clash. Okay. Now, if you look  at the global companies, finance, pharma and   and big tech, well, there are no boundaries for  them. And let's not forget that most of those   tech companies, are monopolists. That's  out there. And they act as monopolist. You know,   there's no freedom of speech here. There's  censorship is enormously, they're using all their  

money and all their power to get people in the  control. And you have to accept the terms and   conditions. So they try as a sort of corporate  monopolists to do everything, which is in their   interests. So they want to  design a society which serves their interests.  

And there's no way to cutting   large companies. In the beginning of the  industrial society was also company doing that.   And then that was in the United States,  the most important resource was oil.   And then there was a company called Standard  Oil, and they acquired everything on oil. So 90%,   of the American economy  was dependent on one company, Standard Oil,   then there was a court case. And then Standard Oil  was split up in seven oil companies, you know, the   Seven Sisters. Yeah. And that was the beginning of  the anti trust law. So that was that in the market   only works if there are more than one or at least  three competitors. So that happened to same in  

the big elite intersociety, it has to be corrected,  by cutting up as Standard Oil. At this moment,   it is useless to cut up the digital  technology companies, you know,   because how do you could that's, you know, by nation, or how do you do that. So here again,   I think they will act as monopolist. And because  there are no feedback system, they will fall   down at some time moments, there will be feedback  from people, we don't want the one that anymore.   And what I'm doing at the moment is to develop  all kinds of decentral, smaller, new technologies   that do exactly the same as these large companies  are doing. As an example, in a region, we are   developing the central Internet, and the central  social platforms. So in a region, we put 1000

small boxes, these are computer servers, we  combine them with radio graphic interfaces.   On top of that we do software, and on that  software, we can run all kinds of social   platforms, then we are independent of the large  tech companies, independent of the Facebook and   the Instagrams and LinkedIn and all that. So it  is possible, again, with the same technologies   to bring it closer to the people, then it is yours  again, you know, then you as a citizen, make the   decision how you want to live in your society. And  then the large companies will break down anyway,   you know, there's no feedback on that. So they  were overvalue themselves, they will be arrogant,   and they will fall down. So that's what I think. Amazing. Bob, on that note, thank   you so much. It's been such a pleasure speaking to  you. Thank you for talking to me about your book,  

Society 4.0, resolving eight key  issues to build a citizen society. And I'm sure   it's available on Amazon and I'll request  all our viewers and listeners to check out the   book and buy it if you'd like to. Thank you for  talking to me so much about the digital world and   the challenges and the opportunities that presents  for all of us. We will come back again to you to   talk about your other book on strategy and another  area of specialization. But thank you so much. It was a great honor for me and a  great pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to The  Brand Called You, videocast and podcast.  A

platform that brings you knowledge, experience  and wisdom of hundreds of successful individuals   from around the world. Do visit our website, www.tbcy.in to watch and listen to the   stories of many more individuals. You can also  follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and   Twitter. Just search for The Brand Called You.

2022-01-07 11:59

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