Trying to understand the Monoprice Delta Pro
Here we go I'm back to movies again baby merciless. As always today, we're checking out the monoprice, Delta, Pro which is the, newest addition to their lineup of 3d printers monoprice. Are known for selling consumer, electronics, at lower prices, than many of the big brands but still keeping the core features, and functionality, fully. In place they've. Got a line of 3d printers and filaments, already so let's check out how the delta, pro fits, in. So. First impression, here this looks, and feels nice. Everything, is sturdy like nothing, rattles there are no sharp edges and it's, just this really slick, and streamlined. Machine you get the Delta pro fully assembled, and the frame is made from these custom, aluminum, extrusions, they've been sandblasted to feel nice and soft, the, printbed, is this large, borderless. Black, slab, and all. The electronics, and ugly bits are hidden away in the bottom, compartment underneath, so. I think as far as first impressions, go we're off to a good start let's. Check out the spec sheet and what features we should expect so, nominal, size is a 270. Millimeter diameter build area and a 300, millimeter usable. Height though. If your part happens to fit in be pretty unique Delta. Build, volume, that, printers, like this can reach it's, actually going to be a few centimeters taller, than. That this. Pot fills out the volume quite, well but I think I could have quite easily gone about five or 10 centimetres taller this features. Include automatic. Bed leveling with this manually, attachable, sensor, Wi-Fi. Built in based around a 32 bit control board a heated. Bed between, a half inch touchscreen a filament run out sensor and apparently. Quiet, operation quoted. At 50, decibels while, printing which is exactly. As loud as I measured the old to maker 3 and we're going to measure that for this machine as well it's. Also qualified, for C II and FC C now those, features read really. Nicely right the, problem is that each of them has the second part to them where it's like yeah. This is nice but. We'll. Go through those in a second I mean, reading, through the product page I could already start laughing about so many things that were. Clearly written by the marketing department like do, you really need to point out that he can get repeatable. Prints with the Delta pro I mean I would, expect that from any printer, and especially from, the Delta Pro considering, that this is currently priced at $12.99. US Dollars and as. Usual, with us pricing that is plus tax shipping. Inside the US is free it's, also available in the UK for $14.99. British. Pounds, so. Why. Would you go for a delta in the first place well, it is print quality, mostly. Because, of the motion system you, never have the direction the tool head is traveling lined, up with what, the motors and linear guides do so you get a ton of microscopic, noise, or differing. In your, print and that, very effectively, reduces, how much of an effect artifacts, or things like stepper. Drivers and so on have on the, consistency of a print Delta's are also typically built with a lightweight Bowden, setup with the extruder up here and only the hot end moving, around so, we have less, inertia from that and can, move the hotend and tool head around faster. Deltas, are naturally. Quite simple machines but. Also I mean they, just look super cool they are also well suited for those taller prints because of their shape and because, the print itself never moves around and shakes around, but. Let's, take a step back I mean I can literally take a step back here you. May have noticed that the Delta Pro looks kind of similar to the atom 2.0, which I've reviewed last, year here in the gym there. Are pretty similar in size and construction they use the same sort of magnetic joint for their tool head and if, I can get it off there we go for, the Delta arms and well. I mean it even says on the effector right here that this is Adam Mac swap compatible. So I guess, I could even just directly drop in the tool head from the Adam 2.0, and yes the, Delta Pro is made by the same company layer, one from Taiwan this, isn't, the next iteration of what they are working on this is kind, of a different version and a less expensive, one I guess. To. Start off the most important bit for every 3d printer is how, well it prints. After all usually, you, buy these for, the prints you get with them and the, prints actually, really, well parts, are crisp, and clean just as we like them it does have that Delta specific, tree ringing pattern, but it's quite subtle you won't notice it on real prints unless you're specific, you're looking for it the slicer that is provided with the machinist kiss slicer you may have never heard of it but it's been around for a while and it's a shareware program. That you, know slices, it does, a ton of things differently than what you might be used to from other, slicers, but overall, it, produces, good prints I had to convince the guys from layer one that maybe, the default profile should have gap-fill enabled so, you don't, get artifacts.
Like This and kiss. Slicer also has this weird, double ghost thing going on in this front area and I've seen it on a lot of other prints as well that. I don't see with any other slicer, the slicing itself in kiss slicer is quite. Slow but again overall it's alright and it's a good start but of course if you want you can use any other slicer as well this, machine is not locked down to, just. Their own slicer this was sliced with slic3r, the. One in pretty much only way to get files to the printer is with, a USB Drive if you have this port on the side here and even though this is a 32-bit board it doesn't run an operating system like on a Raspberry, Pi so, it doesn't do slicing, in the machine you have to do that on a full computer beforehand, but wait there's. Also Wi-Fi built-in right well. Sure, it does have Wi-Fi but you can apparently only use that with the app that comes with the large member that is being used here it's, like an apk, I would have to sideload off my phone to use it but sorry that's just not gonna happen I mean it's, from some random Chinese, developer. Around, the file through virustotal, which, found some suspicious Packers. I mean that doesn't have to mean anything but, then again what. Would you even get out of an app like this anyways you're definitely not going to upload a new G code print files from your phone I mean you're not gonna be slicing on this let alone you, know messing, with STL, files there's also no, camera in the printer so you can, check, on your print basically, all. You get is a progress, bar and for. The other features like moving. The printer setting temperatures, and starting print files that are already on, the machine you. Know if you think about each of those there's, no reason, why I'd want to do that remotely, while you're away from the machine and not, just use the touchscreen as, on there already the, electronics, in the Delta Pro are based around the large board, which is its own closed, source ecosystem. Of hardware, firmware, and apps, as a user you can configure pretty much anything about the machine through the screen or through a config tool but, until, one of the open source firmware starts, supporting this exact processor, and set up you're. At the mercy of large, monoprice. And layer 1 when it comes to updates, and bug fixes for the system ie right. Now you cannot, simply flash a community version of Marlyn for new features, you. Do get thermal runaway protection, on the hot end you also get a filament run-out sensor which, you know just me being me high end up bypassing, with, an allen key because, I was switching filmin so often and didn't want to deal with feeding it through the sensor every single time but it does work pretty well the sensor seems to be another off-the-shelf, part from lurch, one. Feature though that is notably. Absent in, this entire system is power loss detection, which I personally. Don't mind at all I don't remember the last time we've had a power outage here but, then again we do have one of Europe's largest nuclear power plants basically right down the road so having, some sort of power loss detection, surely would be nice for some other places around. The world the actual hardware here looks nice the wiring is clean of, course I don't have any long-term experience, with the mainboard, but for example the heated bed is handled, by an external drivers so that's the, biggest potential issue taken care of for power supply we have this nice big Meanwell, 24. Volt unit, and if. It looks familiar, well, it's exact same unit that all to make it use so that's a very solid, choice speaking about the hardware firmware. The, touch screen and the interface on it it's, basically. The stock interface, that the large firmware comes with it's, kind of tedious first of all the machine comes with what looks like a Nintendo DS stylus who wants a stylus.
You. Have to get them and put them away and you lose them yuck, nobody. Wants a stylus and the interface, is just kind, of inconsistent. And weird, like some of these lists are clickable, some, you have to use the buttons on the side to select something there's, an option for turning on lights which, the printer doesn't have and just overall navigation, is somewhat confusing you, get a bunch of buttons and it's not really clear what they all do it also, doesn't help that the documentation. And manually, get with, the Delta pro are quite sparse beyond the basics, I mean, you'd get used to that right but some, bits just don't work I've, had issues with filming loading where it would sometimes go way, too slow, not, feed all the way in or reverse out, way, too far again after we're done feeding and and it would also suggest not, using the pause function because, well. It does lift the tool head up when you first hit pause I've. Had, it forget to move back down when. I wanted it to resume so the printer tried to continue printing right up here and kept slamming into the in stops so. Yeah. Overall. The. Touchscreen looks good on the machine, as long as it's turned off like like, it is now this looks really pretty but. I'm not sure if I actually prefer, this implementation, of a touch interface over an efficient simple text-based, LCD in the scroll wheel I know I'm sounding like a grandpa now back, in my day things were so much better but, you, know other companies, do manage to produce way. Less clumsy interfaces, on a touchscreen like this I'm, told, this, is being worked on so there might be improvements. In the future but as always I can, only review, what, I have and not something that may come at some point. Right. Now there already is real-time, nozzle, height adjustment. You can do through the touchscreen but, because, it's a resistive, touch layer that, you have to really press hard to get it to register and there's no feedback at all whether you've done anything, it's it's rather hard to use that feature to dial in the, first layer was printing, and the, increments, you can set our 15, micron, each which i think is a bit, too coarse to really dial in that first layer, height perfectly, now. Of, course for nozzle. Height adjustment to make sense at all you need to make sure the bed is actually parallel, to, the plane the hot end moves, along so you don't sort up with a crooked bit now being, glass it should be very flat, to start with and the. Printer does come with auto bed leveling, which is not, done before every print but it's something you do by manually, attaching. This, force-sensitive, resistor to, the nozzle, connecting. It right up here and then running, that cycle, through the, touchscreen this. Is another part that you can get from urghhh you're probably only going to use this probe once and then never, need it again, this, machine is quite robust, and even after having a chip to me with minimal. Packaging from the UK this was you know shown in a trade show and repackage there this, thing just started straight up with no calibration, or recalibration. Required so, in normal, use I don't think you'll ever need to recalibrate it, the leveling results I got were good but they seemed to vary quite a bit between, prints, maybe it was just one of the end stops not. Triggering, accurately, overall, it's usable, but, ultimately though I switched, to slick through RP entirely, which lets you print with a fatter and taller. First layer which will always just, stick and that's, not something you can do with the pre-configured kiss slicer. What. Am I think about the bit it's glass so you can either use it bare with PLA but I prefer smearing, some glue stick or other adhesive, on it depending, on what material I print it's also heated which i think is pretty mandatory, for a good printing experience today and heater. Itself is an, aluminum PCB, that's bonded to the bottom of the glass and insulated. On the other side so as long, as you didn't break the glass that's, a really nice solution you, do lose a bit of heat around the edge where, the actual, aluminum, bed ends so if you're printing heightened materials you, might want to stay a centimeter away from the edge of that, heated area but, that's not uncommon, on other 3d printers as well the. Bed takes a while to heat, up but you can reasonably, use it at up to I'd say a hundred degrees Celsius, but that's already quite the wait to, get it heated up now when it comes to materials like, abs or anything else that needs higher temperatures, to print and to stick the.
Hotend Or hot, side to be exact that comes install the machine is a Teflon, line one which works for your normal materials, like PLA. And ptg, the, Teflon lining is simply the Bowden tube going, all the way down to the nozzle similar to, other line Cotton's but this one doesn't seal perfectly maybe, because the bone to boy isn't cut straight on the end so, swapping. In a different, hot side is a bit harder, than it originally. Looks aside, from the two connectors for the heater, cartridge and the thermistor, and the, two grub screws that physically, hole the whole set in you also have to heat the hot set up to, even get the boat and cube out at all I've. Already. Had to swap out this boat into you because the original one got damaged when I tried to remove it and reinstall. Hardens, and there's only so much tube that he can cut off the ends before it's too short now. Why, would you want to swap Holland's at all well, there are two other hot, ends are hot sides, included. One. Extra, line one that's this, one and an. All metal type that should be safe for temperatures over, 245. Or 250, degrees, Celsius, which you may want to use for abs some coal polyesters, or polycarbonate, a, well-made. All-metal, hotend, can print all the things a Teflon line one does just fine, but it needs to be well made to, work well with the most common material peeling. This, one doesn't. Work well with PLA it jams super, easily as the PLA sticks to the bare metal throat and I've, had a few prints just you. Know stop printing and fail in the middle and the, bottom can't Jam so, I don't know if it's just not getting cooled enough through the heatsink or if the surface finish on the inside right here is not. Good enough but, I do know that the extruder, sure isn't helping either because it just so easily starts, skipping steps instead of forcing the film into, considering. This is a completely. Open machine, so no enclosure, the, sloppy, air routing, from the hot end that, always slightly blows over your prints and these. Somewhat weak heated bed you're, probably not going to do much high temperature printing on this machine anyways, so, I feel like the Teflon, lined hardened is all this printer, really.
Needs These, are a 3d inspired. Hardens but, the, heat break and the cold side is different, and they're, incompatible, to the original looks like, again lurch are offering it very similarly, looking hardens. To what the Delta pro is using that being said III will apparently also be working on getting there hardens, on to the Delta pro in fact, I'll chip this very machine to, them after this review if, easily do work on machine I sure hope they slap a Titan on it because this extruder, is not. The best one it, does come with adjustable. Tension but, it doesn't use a very grippy drive care in it's, just a spur gear it has, a super, weird lip in the filament path that made it impossible to, get filaments, in it on a few, occasions and it's also not providing a ton of driving, force despite, the massive stepper, motor on the back so unless you drop the layer height like, I did here, the extruder is going to be a limiting factor for printing fast just. Having. A large motor doesn't mean you automatically, get more torque you also need to drive it harder, the biggest size just gives you the option to do that without, overheating, it, the, extruder also has this massive gap. After, the drive gear giving flexible, filaments, and maybe even softer, nylons a very, easy option, to escape and. Talk. About driving motors let's check that noise level. Well. It's, alright it's, not loud, there is no motor, whine and, there are no excessive, vibrations, it's just. That it's not quite either at least I wouldn't advertise it as such the. Fans are very audible, and even just at idle right after. The turning the printer on the cooling fan in the electronics, compartment is already. Louder, than what a machine using, may be traumatic drivers and naktu fans can achieve auto printing you. Guys know which one I'm talking about the. Delta pro uses, on semi, lv, 8 7 to 9 V stepper, drivers I know those drivers exist but I've not seen them on any other machine, I think but, both, from reading through the datasheet and looking, at real-life, performance, in this one these, are extremely, similar to the common Allegro, drivers like the a4, 9 8 8 I've had one axis, skip a step on the second layer quite a few times not. Sure why it's, led, to prints like this that, just didn't stick and a bunch of strings. But. Yeah overall. I mean the drivers do their job but. They're, nothing to write home about and. That. Is the overall vibe that I'm getting from the Delta pro like don't, get me wrong if, this was the only option in the market I'd be totally happy using it all day every day the thing is just we. Can do better than this now I mean from mechanical, imprinting performance standpoint the Delta pro's really solid. So excellent like look at this this is this is super, nice but. In late, 2018, simply. Printing, well, isn't. Enough. Anymore it should be a given for any machine and let's be honest the $1500. Price point is a tough. Spot to be in the delta pro was fourteen nine nine would have filmed this review but it's about $12.99, which is a bit more reasonable machines, like. The pusher mark thing exists today i hate's always use that as a benchmark but, that's that's what it is right it's, a third cheaper and other, than those ten centimeters, of printable, height and, arguably, looks. The. Mark three handily. Beats out the delta pro on so, many, fronts and my opinion, also. Provides a better user, experience, well at least a more well-rounded one. But. If, you want spit the delta pro against, a comparable. Size machine. Although. The thing is while. Your printers are kind of rare, I guess the CR 10 line, of printers kind of fits in here as a budget option but. At least the base year 10 is a very solid, step down from the. Delta Pro in many ways but, it's also just a third of a cost so yeah, that's a tough one I guess what's confusing, me, about the Delta pro is trying to figure out where it fits in is it. A hobby machine, well, that it's it's way to close down but also a bit too expensive, is it, a professional. Workhorse for that I think the experience needs to be more robust, especially when it comes to the, extruder or hot end touchscreen. Interface and the firmware it's. Like it's stuck between worlds, where it does, a few things really well but, then on others I feel like it doesn't set itself apart from even low end machines enough to compete it's. Both super. Elegant and kind, of grotesque at the same time I don't, know if my expectations, are just off but I feel, like this machine would both be a better package, if it was an even more cheaply built machine and focused only, on his strengths or if.
It Was a more premium machine and ironed out all the kinks itself has as, it, stands it's a solid machine but it's not getting me particularly, excited, stell, if you want to pick one up there links in the video description below, those, are affiliate, links so I get a small kickback if you buy anything through those thank. You tomorrow price if you're loaning me the Delta Pro and thank you everyone who supports the channel saw it I can keep making independent. Content for you all to watch your support is what allows me to do in-depth, reviews, like this one without. Having to worry about whether or not you. Will then go out and buy one through, my feelings or whether. I might be pissing off the manufacturer, but not just showing you what, their products can do but also what they cannot do if, you want to support the channel you can do so over on patreon, or by joining here on YouTube or, you, know simply, hitting the subscribe button that's, super, helpful for the channel as well so, thank you for that hope. You enjoyed and I will see you all the next one bye.
2018-12-23 14:50
You would think something that includes "Pro" in its name, would be a higher end product, Clumsy screen, problematic extruder, with sub quality board and drivers, Perhaps if it was just a "delta" it could pass.
Great review Tom. THIS is why I love your videos. It is so much more than just a review of feature lists, and look at prints - you delve into the details — the WHY of the machine. They WAY it may or may not stack up. Thanks again for such high quality output.
Thank you for making another video about 3D printer hardware, it feels like a long time and I've missed this kind of content from you.
I have no idea what peoples fascination with "open source" firmware, sure its great if you are a tinkerer. but for consumer products, letting users access to firmware is generally a bad idea. Good video, I miss 3D printer review videos from you guys.
"This is my foot and I'm pointing this gun at it."
what number of microstepp is it use with those lv8729 drivers? can u see any resolution improvement on delta system?
VERRY nice looking machine... As we can expect at that price range. But look isn't enough; Thumbs down for me. Thumbs up for this honest video, as always!
So, it's basically a LayerOne motion frame and motors with the Lerdge electrical harness slapped in, not the best way to build a machine.
Tom. It looks like your Kiss settings are unlocked, fattening 1 layer is done by increasing bed roughness in printer profile.
So its basically a solid mechanical starting point to building a better unit, after tossing more money at it. Its sad really that we were at this point ~ 2 years ago and nothing has changed much. Thanks for the review and happy holidays. Cheers, - Eddy
oof, this is so stressing there is a plastic film on the lcd, must resist the urge... just joking :D
not related to this video but, will you eventually make a Prusament review? :) cheers
- Oooh, nice printer! - ...closed source... - Goodbye
I wouldn't advise buying printers from Monoprice. I mean, you know what level you're quality you're buying into; cheap. But when it breaks, you have to deal with their customer service - or lack there of. They'll immediately become unresponsive and shelve your RMA and not tell you. I had to call many times over the course of 4 weeks for a single RMA. I picked up an Ender 3 and gave my MP Delta away for free.
+CrimSun There is a difference between not offering customer support and providing a false sense of support and or shady practices..... Like with Newegg charging a 30% global restocking fee lol. Regardless, I'm just saying look into customer support reviews - as well as hardware reviews - because they can be deal breaking.
Consider that Ultimaker, which sells printers over 2k in price, doesn't have customer support. Your only support is with the reseller you bought the printer from.
Your expectations are not "off", Tom. You are so right about this unit missing so many things that should be standard and expected, most especially at this price point, they should be above and beyond. Still, a pretty darn sexy looking machine, and it's got potential.
Wait until you see the Ultimaker printers, how much they cost, their proprietary hardware, having to pay for every single upgrade, how many features they have in comparison to similar priced models, etc. and their most loved feature: they don't have direct customer support on a printer that costs over 2 grand.
I don't know how this is a step down from a CR10 when this is worse at what it tries to do across the board. I'm very thankful for the review nonetheless, it's still very interesting and informative.
A great review Thomas, thank you!
Imagine spending $1300 and getting the same extruder as an Ender 3
Ender 3 still has a better drive gear XD.
So what you are saying is. Upgrade to Trinamics drivers, upgrade the hot end and extruder motor and upgrade the firmware and it's fine but still would be a better sub 1k printer.
I love your reviews. You look at it from so many perspectives. It adds so much to your credibility.
It's very expensive
1300 hundred dollars
I had no idea how massive this printer is! Wow, it’s crazy!
BAYBEH, what's Baby in German? Kinder?
Actually, it's Baby :)- (Ok there are alternatives: _Kind_ or _Schätzchen_ , the second being more like a term of endearment (honey, sweetie)) - Eddy
I enjoyed your review and found the info you provided very helpful. Thank you!
Sooooooo it's a squishy No...….for now.....
extruder looks like the 10€ one i just added on my CR10, also why not genuine e3d lmao, god fucking dammit, i WANT to like the chinese machines but they make so many dumb choice i just cant, atleast creality did something right with the cr10s pro , also thank you Tom for the nice review, iknow it would be easy to just say "go buy this with my affiliate link its pretty good" :)
i can buy an anycubic kossel linear plsu for 200€ throw on Filament Frenzys profile in s3d and get superb prints, what where they smoking with that price tag
Anyone else run their printer off a battery backup? Ive had one for a while and its great for the occasional short outages we get here.
it's in my todo list, I'm at the end of the line so I get occasional power dips.
Hey, have you tried changing the drive current for the extruder stepper on the extruder stepper driver? I've had good results tweaking the stepper current after being assaulted by the "clicks" so many times on my sketchy Chinese machine.
+Thomas Sanladerer For the price they definitely ought to come adjusted from the factory but maybe not.
Looking at the footage again, it looks like the drivers were not adjusted at all, which might be counterproductive. I did not adjust them.
I still think I’m going to pick one up after Christmas, it does the things I want it to do, and I will pick up an E3d hot end once they are available
Nuclear powered AND bringing mr. Steve Jobs back from the dead. holy ballz! Great quality review!
Hey I am not judging. Nuclear is supposedly even more clean than my Danish Hippie Windmill power. But hydro+solar is pretty neat as well
Technically, I'm buying hydropower-only electricity, but you're right - realistically, it's nuclear + solar pushing the electrons here.
Nice review! Thank you Tom. Speaking of delta machines, you should check WASP Delta Printers (especially the 2040 and the 2040 turbo). They're pricey, but work great. I've used an old version of the 2040 at work and I think they're great machines with a unique "suspended" bowden solution. Oh, the "Turbo" prints REALLY fast.
A well rounded review.. many many thanks
Dude.... THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!!! Love the video
When you grab it shake it, it wobbles like rocking chair. " Look how sturdy it is! " :0
+Thomas Sanladerer Perhaps, but lets be honest, you could order some v-slot linear rails, all the S motors, framing, pulleys, and motherboard, and build a 1000X 500X500 printer that an employee of yours could assemble daily, and sell on the side. 'The Sanladerer system ' for 1200/1500 US. And we would buy it. Aliexpress it, its more than eco friendly.
Soft, cushy feet! The machine in itself is super sturdy.
Best 3DP reviews on youtube is back!
yoooooo sending this to E3D? niiiice, so we could get a V6/Lite6 effector, or, even more interesting, a titan Aero effector, those high inductance motors in the base seem like they could deal with the increased weight
I am printing an mpcnc over christmas as well :)
It doesn't looked like you peeled off the protective plastic on the touch screen (evidenced by the bubbling). Is that making it hard to detect touches?
you generally don't want to use a resistive screen with your fingers, and resistives are pretty good if you use a somewhat pointy thing.
If it comes with that plastic stylus, it's a resistive touchscreen, so it would be prtty terrible no matter what they do to it. Resistive touch (with the exception of very high end ones for very specific purposes) belongs back in 2003.
they should just sell the hardwares without electronics, also with a good manual unassembled is acceptable. that would be a great machine
Indeed! Their electronics just suck.
So, how large are you making your MPCNC? :)
So, about 40x40cm working area? That should wind up being a pretty nice size. I built mine with right around a 65x55cm working area (translated from the inches it was built using.. haha). It's on its own roll around stand, but it might be taking up too much room at that size. I'm sure I'll like it when I get into bigger projects, though.
+Thomas Sanladerer Looking forward to some tips and tricks for our already built machines!
50x50cm work area
OK. I have to ask. Why do you say Slic3r as Slic-three-r? I always thought it's just a hacker speak way of typing slicer?
+Thomas Sanladerer Huh. Then I must have gotten it wrong. Another way to call the hacker talk is I think l33t speak or elite speak - where the 3 replaces the e. K1nd 0f l1k3 h3r3 :) But I am sure you knew that and I am mistaken. Thanks for the super fast answer. Love the videos and the great content!
Slicer != Slic3r
This review was incredibly thorough! I didn't expect to learn so much about printers in a review about a delta
Awesome, that was the goal!
Nice video Tom (as always), are you finally going to be reviewing the MPCNC? See the center section print test at 4:31
Glad to see reviews back, good coverage Tom!
Tom you're right, this is weird. This is half done. Closed source electronics -- if it was cheaper, it would be OK, just swap the extruder for a bondtech, hotend for an e3d and electronics for a duet, but that's too many parts to swap and throw away to make this a good machine -- it looks like good kinematics with garbage everything else at a non justifiable price point.
It's strange that no one batted an eye when Ultimaker started doing it.
Atom 3D are working on the next 3D printer that will be available under their own brand, too - I know they're talking feedback very seriously, so you may just end up seeing those exact parts on the Atom 3!
Great video, as usual ;) I wonder if you could make a video or even just a few pics of your printing/electronic/mechanic accessories that are visible at 11:17 I use a very similar storage system and I am always looking for some inspiration of what to get after christmas :) Thanks for your great work!
LOL, "You guys know which one I'm talking about." Love it, thanks for the review Tom. Very well done as always.
trying to understand deltas at all. they look cool but there are just too many compromises. at the local makerspace so many newbies get entranced by the looks of a delta and end up regretting it.
+Uncle Bach Then you probably build it badly...
Exactly, my first machine is a home made i3, then i built a delta, totally regretted, luckily i was able to sell it to a newbie friend, and now he is regretted.and i am happily living with the old i3 and a new corexy thingy.
restive touch screen $20 -- capacitive touch screen $50 -- please, please, please make the printer $30 more (in this price range it doesn't make much difference) and DO NOT EVER use these junk touch screens.
+Alex Carter I have my 3d printer in my garage, and I don't want to have to take off my gloves/wash my hands to press a button on it. (of course, this isn't a printer that's marketed towards that.) but in my experience, resistive screens just work with any pointy thing, while capacitive screens need dry fingers and are pretty sensitive, plus you can have smaller buttons with a stylus on a resistive, vs the need to have big buttons on a capacitive, or you fat finger everything. Also in a hacklab environement, you don't want everyone smudging the screen, so the stylus makes sense. (though I'd prefer metal buttons in that case.) of course with how it looks it probably should have a fancy pantsy capacitive touchscreen, but if you start adding the 30 bucks upgrades, it probably would cost 300 bucks more. I was merely answering the "DO NOT EVER use these junk touch screens" comment, of course capacitives are great in a clean environment, but the resistives have applications, and I prefer them in a home shop/garage environement.
+manaquri I'm not arguing about the type of display. I'm just saying that a premium/pretty looking 3d printer like this one is won't come in contact with any material (in serious quantities) that adversely affect capacitive touch screens and as such this "premium" product should have one
+Alex Carter if they are well made, touch screen menus are faster to use as they have more "buttons", of course you could argue that a control panel with all of the buttons is better (which is why industrial cncs use those) but that's also more expensive.
+manaquri Why would you be getting either of those on a 3d printer?
+CrimSun that's why most industrial stuff uses resistive screens. oil and metal shavings are not friends with capacitive screens.
Let's coincidentally forget that capacitive screens can not work under a variety of scenarios, including certain dust particles on the screen.
I prefer resitive touchscreens because they are more reliable and precise than capacitive Imo, and you can use it with gloves and wet hands. of course, there's the issue of the stylus, but on a fixed machine, you can have it tied to the machine and it won't flee.
4:30 Tom is finally building a MPCNC! Nice!
First thing I noticed!
I thought those parts looked kinda burly! Glad to see the updated parts, not the older ones.
Hooray for Captions!
This size delta will give me nightmares.
Thank you Mr Thomas
Great video Tom, interesting to hear your thoughts on this printer. You should have a look at the Trilab DeltiQ L. It’s an amazing delta. Could be the best delta I’ve ever used. I think you’d like it! I’ve been using Kisslicer to on the Trilab too. It’s pretty good.
Nice delta
Please review Duet3d Boards.
I laughed at the "Distance: 1(one) meter", I don't know why XD
Whats that darker orange color? it looks close to the one KTM uses. Tried hard to find something dark to print bike parts with but what I have is still a hair too light.
Well, 1500$ is expensive I would prefer to go with flsun qq which is cost only 400$
So, another one of those "would be a great machine, if only..." printers, because of a few, basically none-too-bad, fixable problems that can turn out to be pretty big show stoppers... which wouldn't be too big of a problem, if it wasn't at that price point - seriously, on _that_ level, I'd expect it to be much closer to "it just works" territory... Somehow, this feels like the classic chinese 3D printer syndrome: great ideas, but with lousy practical execution in a few places, creating a *ahem* less-than-stellar experience - and that for 1299 bucks... But enough of that - to something completely different: the last few seconds of the outro, during the print of your "flowerpot vase" thing (don't know how else to call it - even the color fits
+Thomas Sanladerer Ah - so the part's working like an old-fashioned gramophone... No wonder it seemed quite a bit louder than the 50db would have led to believe - that would explain a few things
It's the printed part resonating from the stepper vibrations
Sideloading an APK - in 2012, sure, in 2018, no fing way
Moving the feeding mechanism away from the hot end can also be done with cartesian printers; I don't see why that would be exclusive to deltas.
He who smelta it delta it. No, i'm kidding, deltas really are artistic to watch in progress and I own two other deltas. That one should not cost that much, in fact, none of them should. I see bikes sold for 100 dollars that have more going in the build really. There's about the same amount of metal as in a aluminum toboggan that sells for under 50. Printers should cost 20 dollars!
Top review. thank you for that.
KISSlicer: "Overall it produces good prints". Well, it's one of the best slicers ever. I've been using it sing 2013, and the results were always astonishing. In the other hand must say that the interface is not the best.
Great informative review and a top quality video, nice!
Tom was the board in the machine a Lerdge K or a Lerdge X/S?
It's the 4-driver version, I believe the Lerdge X.
Loving how honest this review is (and you other ones too). Thanks for being awesome Tom ;)
Me: When the camera turns to the Printer Holy shit.
Nice review Thanks for sharing
review lerdge x board
I've got one of those Lerdge filament sensors, never got it to work and when I decided to crack the housing open it turns out the guts are just one of the old 'type B' endstop boards.
using the same power supply as ultimaker is a BAD thing. my ultimaker power supply is the only one that has failed out of 8 printers, with power supplies ranging from cheapo shit to high quality meanwell (with fan). I'm on my THIRD power supply for my um2. that's garbage.
Why aren't delta printers higher? I mean a lot of it's height is taken up by the arms, the base, etc. On a 1 meter tall machine you can easily have 60cm taken up by that. Why don't they make something like a 2 meter tall one so that the lost 60cm don't matter as much? (the mentioned sizes are arbitrary, but you got the point) My point is that making a desktop sized delta printer defeats it's purpose of being a tall printer.
I’ve “broke” 3 MP Select Mini V1 and they have RMAed all of them. Sure shipping took awhile about 3 weeks from sending it and receiving it, but they covered shipping and I live on the other side of the US. They even, after the second RMA sent a V2 for free. Overall the service is great, just have to be patient. Way better than I would have though for $200
+kazolarNone of their new printer use any open source hardware. None of them. It's all proprietary and they also made sure to put the high voltage power boards next to the main board so people don't open it, on top of putting all boards under the printer bed, so you can't have access to the board when the printer is on as well. The slicer itself has little value being proprietary, as the software by itself is useless without a printer.
+CrimSun Ultimaker also developed Cura and made it open source, you can say it's due to them using underlying code from other open source slicers, but they do appear to believe in OS
+kazolar Of course it is. But not because Ultimaker wants it, but because Marlin sort of forces you to put it on open hardware, as it's a bit hard for the Marlin guys to program firmware on hardware they can't have access to or reverse engineer due to it being proprietary.
+CrimSun pretty sure ultimaker Marlin is open source. This lerge board weirdness is a non starter.
lmaoo Right!
what compromises? delta is hard to get right for newbies or even some veterans 3d printers but... technically there ain't much compromises, in fact, one could argue that it is the best structure for an fdm 3d printer due to its simplicity of parts and super low moving mass. most of the flaws you saw in the video doesn't exist in a properly designed & built delta 3d printer.
+manaquri exactly what I said , expensive with rather dubious justification for the price -- if you upgrade the electronics -- get the duet and a paneldue -- yes it's a capacitive touch screen, but the targets are very well laid out, it's quick, responsive and a pleasure to use, I mentioned the bondtech and e3d hotend in my other comment
+CrimSun a well made UX works very well on a touch screen -- look at duet and to a octoprint -- octodroid (the native - plugin touch ui for octoprint is rather clunky). A complete UI experience with properly designed menus is a benefit, not a gimmick -- now a touch screen on a refrigerator is a gimmick...but that's where everything is going.
+kazolar Many manufacturers started putting touchscreens on printers as a gimmick, not because they care about UX or UI. Both have no added benefit to the printer on top of also preventing people with certain handicaps from using the product in question. Also, a touch screen of any type custs costs by not requiring you to make PCBs with extra components like dials and buttons, as well as a display and implementation to interact with all these parts. Many touch screen assemblies of both types also have their own drivers built in, taking off the burden of added cost for a display driver chip on the main board.
+kazolar I'll take the buttons over a tactile screen every day, and while I use a capacitive touchscreen on my phone, I wish there was a way to have a precise stylus with it without having to get a wacom tablet in there (and I use a physical keyboard on it when I can). Tbh, if there was a phone with a good battery life (current one has 3-7 days with an 11Ah battery) and stylus support under 200 bucks, I'd probably get this one next. As I said earlier, I know it's not marketed towards that, but there's a reason to use a resistive touchscreen sometimes, and for fixed stuff I'd rather have a resistive with a stylus than a capacitive, I like seeing what I'm pointing at, and not have half the screen covered by my hand. In the order of upgrades, I'd probably change quite a few things before the screen, like a bondtech extruder (or a clone) and probably the rest of the electronics, and If I had to upgrade the screen, I'd probably use an orange pi host with a 17 inch screen and a keyboard. expensive penny pinching looks to be the name of that printer anyway, it's too expensive for what is offered.
+manaquri do you also use a palm treo with a resistive touch screen. The ONLY reason this machine uses a resistive touch screen is cost. They're not marketed or targeted to an environment where the touch screen interaction with a pointy thing is a consideration. Everyone is accustomed to using capacitive touch screen smart phones, and somehow penny pinching here is a feature? Seriously either use a graphical LCD with physical buttons or a MODERN touch screen which wasn't all the rage back when symbian OS was still a thing.
Print stylus holder :)
Great review tom, at first i said wow thats really nice and i want one. But you just saved me over a grand, tyvm.
Tom, where to get your pullover from? Nice review guy!
resistive touch screen? this screems like "back in my days"
Have you checked out the SeeMeCNC Rostock Max V3.2 or the Artemis?
Thanks for the review. I picked up a Monoprice Select Mini as my first 3D printer at a good price as it needed minor repair. I like it but I've been thinking of getting a delta as my next printer. I like the idea of a (partially) assembled unit. I could assemble one myself but I'd rather spend my time using the printer instead of having to debug it and fine tune it before I could use it effectively. While this printer is tempting it isn't (for me) at the current price. I'm instead looking at the FLSUN QQ although I've heard that it may only be using an 8-bit controller. It's cost is 1/3 this one for a 260mm dia. x 370mm print volume.
I just returned a QQ due to a few problems. Mine kept crashing the hot end into the bed on day one and burned the build plate all over. Touchscreen is nice and the build is good but if i tried another i would get the glass plate one they have now. I may have just got a bad one, who knows but it's to bad since i did like it otherwise. I just don't do second chances anymore, tierd of being burned. Got a cetus mk3 due to makers muse reviews and it's very very wierd with the odd build plate and closed slicer but it is very reliable and prints are great but you use a raft alot with the silly build plate. I wish my ender 3 would stop screwing up because i really like it the best.
If you make it taller but not wider, it'll lose its rigidity. You really don't want a wobbly delta printer.
_Slic-3-R_
Thanks Tom for the review....As long as there are closed siystems in reference to firmware, there is no way to buy such thngs. I have a few printers, which have Marlin on it, and that is how it should be. ABL :-) yes I use exactly that „leveler“ for all my printers. Only disadvantage, everything has to be cold.... But can be easily integrated within Marlin
The fact that it’s using closed source hardware/firmware and can’t be hooked up to an RPi etc is a big no-no. Also for the price it’s way too expensive for what it is. This product is aimed at the Makers where technology iterates rapidly and as a result they need to make the product open-source so that bugs and features can be resolved/iterated in lock-step with development effort by the open-source community. The cost is prohibitive for most Makers IMO.
There is a USB connector on the mainboard, but I don't know if that's usable for things like OctoPrint.
I don't understand the 'JOIN' pricing model. So many people stick about £5.00 per month. So if there are 10 or 20 channels I really like, are we expected to pay £50 to £100 per month. I gave up sky and went to Netflix, I certainly won't be spending £50 for 10 youtube channels. What's wrong with 50p or £1 and hoping to get 5 times the joiners?
Yeah, I really wish YouTube would change that. But they've recently surveyed creators about the membership option, so there's hope that this will get improved!
Be it Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, Or whatever else you might Believe, May loved ones be near, May you heart fill with cheer, And many blessings you Receive.
all electronics under a heated bed. Granted heat does up but still, I tried to avoid that on my build.
5:33 why would you ever want it to slice in the machine..? The .stl had to come from a computer at one point, so why not slice it on there where it’s much easier to change settings?
Whenever there's a powerful processor in a printer, the question about what the board can and can't do always comes up - so I just made sure that part was clear ;-)
my Guider 2 also came with resistive.. I was like... wut? Capacitive can't be pennies more...
+Matthew Poole Thanks for the comments about it. I have also just had it confirmed by FL Sun that they are using an 8-bit controller in this 3d printer. It's a shame that they still use an 8-bit controller with all the other nice things they have done in the design and manufacture of this printer.
The orange filament? That's Proto-pasta Tangerine Orange Metallic http://go.toms3d.org/ProtoTom
I gave up on Marlin and the need to be a programmer to work with that mess of a config file. On the Marlin developers list there was no mention of usability improvements. The Lerdge is a much faster 32 bit processor. Needed if you want fast print speeds. I bought 3 lerdge board systems for two X5S printers and a Tevo Black Widow. Lerdge is a closed garden but you do not have to be a programmer.
Lerdge user here yeah same first impressions but after a day or so you'll get used to it and love it! Ow it's optional to put an encoder knob beside the LCD board if you dont like the Touch screen at all.
No thanks. I have 3 Anycubic kossel linear plus V2's, paid half the price for all 3 compared to this one.
"slic 3r pe" took me a few seconds to figure out.
This machine reminded me of anycubic mega because of the f*cking sturdy frame and potencial but relatively bad electronics
That would be my concern too. The question is what does it support in the G-code.
+Uncle Bach So you proudly announce to the entire Internet that you cheated your newbie friend and sold him garbage instead of giving him good friendly advice. And just as expected it was a disappointment for him. You look like a very nice friend to have for sure.
Filament feeder looks the same as on my Ender-3d
I think if that nuclear power plant down the road from you were to fail you would have bigger problems then print recovery to deal with.
That's very similar to my experience with my Monoprice select mini, V1. It gets the job done, costs the right price, but lacks finished engineering and creature comforts. If they do come out with a V2, cleaning up the UI, and re-designing the extruder and hot end would be the top two things.
Hi Tom, thanks so much for your educative and informative videos. I have enjoyed the latest videos with E3D and Adrian Bowyer a lot !! More of that please. I wonder is there a chance you could do a video about the RailCore II 300ZL ? I have seen a very short non detailed thing on 3D Printing Nerd That machine looks like it has the potential to become a reference for the next generation of home used 3D printers. Many similarities to E3D's "budget does not matter" toy with the tool changer..... Thanks, Jan.
Thom, I am curious, have you ever tried Klipper Firmware? What are your thoughts on it?
+Thomas Sanladerer facts
If our coal power plants just keep on working as intended, mankind will have much bigger problems than a bit of extra radiation in one area.
A bit off the video's topic, but what do you think about the Slice Engineering Mosquito hot end?
Tom could you please do another video on DOLLY?
tom can you help me. I have this problem whit my printer. Its plastic particals. Never seen a topic about using hepa filters and closing in the 3d printer. Its particals that is dangerus for longcancer. and you do need space for the printer. My qeustion to you is do you need special space. Some have them in there living room others in the bedroom. and other in there workshop. witch ione do you prefer. what kind of mesure do you have to take when building a sucktion system and hepa filters to build in the 3 d printer. My last qeustion are 3d printer case complete system. I hope you can help me how it is about the particals plastic thing. Is it save!
whe have ideal payment please make it posseble thx tom
Excellent professional review, but i will stick with my Anycubic Chiron 400x400x450 at a fraction of the price of the Delta without many of the shortcomings !
what number of microstep dose it use with those lv8729 drivers? can u see any resolution improvement on delta system?
Is hairspray a good thing to stick on the bed
Well, that's an odd assortment of features and caveats
Actually when I watch video again, it doesn't seem to be that bad. As Thomas said, it can read normal G-code from USB (I didn't notice that at first), which is pretty nice :) On the other side, "there may be improvements in future" nicely sums up what I think about closed source. They can improve their product, but they can also let it as it is or even make many things much worse with update. And if they really f**k it up, maybe you won't be even allowed to switch back to older version which worked better. When buying something closed source, you should ask yourself if you're happy with actual state, because there might be no updates at all since you buy it. You can never be sure. About Chinese companies - it will be cheaper and much simpler to just use board from different printer they already produce, just change firmware, maybe make some test prints to tune values on one printer and then just copy it to all of them. And that's all. It's always three motors for movement, one for extruder and two heating zones. I don't say there can't be improvements in electronics, but main challenge is in hardware that literary holds everything together. If you make robust printer where everything sits perfectly where it should, then it will probably work at first try with no extra tuning. In my opinion, if they will struggle with something while trying to copy existing printer, it will be whole mechanics and keeping it together. Whole electronics boards are open source and many of them are produced in China, so that is really no problem for them.
Honestly tho, I don't see reason why closed source tech is despised. Sure it will limit 3rd party modification, but unless the stock units sucks so bad, I don't see reason why 3rd party customization is required. Besides, closed source would give some time for the company to continue before some chinese companies eventually copy it and sell it dirt cheap because they barely spend time on development and use lower grade components.
Please make a video on the Klipper Firmware! pretty much no reputable youtubers have really made a video discussing the pros & cons. I'm about to receive my V6 & BMG & plan on setting up Direct Drive on my CR-10S. I was looking into Marlin features like Linear Advance, S Curve Acceleration, & Junction Deviation But I've just come across the Klipper Firmware & discovered that the small detailed movements that i see the printer kind of pause on could be resolved by using Klipper... but does Klipper have any similar features to the ones I was looking at in Marlin?!
For a delta printer at this size this thing looks amazing.....a little pricey tho.
Hey Tom, on your website all of the filament reviews show 6/10, 6/10, 10/10, 8/10 (Average 7.5) instead of what you have in the embedded video. Just a heads up!
Tom sends the Delta Pro to E3D, it comes back a month later with a Duet Wifi, Panel Due screen, Delta Smart Effector and a V6.1 with an Ultinozzle, oh, and a Titan extruder of course :P
my first printer was a monoprice makerbot clone and it was miserable I would never buy anything from there again. It had no support and community behind it, no documentation, outdated buggy software and even printed 6% too small because the pulleys on x and y were 17 tooth and were supposed to be 18 tooth. The slicer options were locked down to replicator g which I hate. It took me so much frustration to figure out and I suffered with it for 3/4 years. I recently replaced it with a cheaper creality ender 3 and im in love. I have the ability to use cura and everything is just so much easier and more enjoyable.
STOP PRINTING VASES AND USELESS GARBAGE!! FFS
*New channel Banner "Merciless As Always"
Yeah MPCNC coming !!!! wait to see that. By the way the bed leveling sensor is rubbish on the monoprice due to the price of the machine. Tevo Little Monster is cheaper and bigger and anyway you will have to go through some upgrades to make it perform better.
very nice!!!
Is it normal to smoke like that at @13:24?
You definitely lost me at closed source board (and stylus) haha
Hi Tomas, maybe you are interested in reviewing our Max-k 3D printer, we have made the official launch at CES 2019, it is the first printer to incorporate google assistant and astroprint, you can print and control the home
Brilliant review. I thought "Looks Nice", listened to review then thought "Narrrr". Best 3D printer reviewer on the internet :-) !
The top clearance is deceptive. For the head to move towards one of the struts, the minimum radius would move the head down. When I first saw it, it looked huge but the print volume as you said it is about the same as my A1 (which is not to say that there are not other benefits or good reasons to do it that way but...)
if a rasp octo pi can slice why couldnt your phone?
Where the videos at?
Happy New Year! Thanks for all the content in 2018!
+Envinite A part of this is because 3dprinting is a growing field/hobby and no one has a printer that ticks every box. Even the prusa, which has massive love, has its flaws. The difference is next week when someone suddenly discovers trinamic drivers, or that x motor is better than y, closed source is at a disadvantage. Customers can look at the new tech and decide if they want it. New tech developers can build to a known set of standards and have a market for their device. If Im happy with the machine and don't need the new tech I keep it as is. A closed source company is then forced to develop fixes to their problems that will only work on their own product, for problems they developed in the first place. New tech will have to be developed as a one off, AND customers have to wait for them to decide its worth and to make it before its available. Not a very nimble option. When you go with closed source, when the community moves on or your company simply decides not to make printers anymore, you're stuck. Get yourself a new printer. Everyone else can adapt and improve.
Hey Tom! Can you please make a video covering converting a china 3d printer to Closed loop stepper motors. I see many advantages, no more losing steps. Faster, more accurate, higher quality prints. Things like what boards are capable of using closed loop. Can it be done on ender, Tevo, TronXY, ect. What firmware changes need to be done? And comparisons in prints. This is a big topic in the cnc router guys not not much out there for this topic on 3d printers. Also another video idea.. compare a smoothie VS duetWiFi. Dont see any videos for that. Thank you for your time! Cheers
maybe worth $600 lol. needs a titan or bondtech, plus a better bed - faster & hotter bed. better hotend & maybe enclosed with clear sided for abs. also better cooling for hotend. and open source. guess Monoprice didn't really do there homework here, interface is really bad & touch screen is too cheap, better off without touch feature on this interface. looks nice but needs alot of hardware upgrades. maybe there version 2 will be better.
Zatsit should pretty much wipe out all these joint styles.
Hello! Cool video!! Are you always near the printer, when you printing? Do you use a mask or something alse to not breathe harmful vapors?
£1,130.36, i'll pass lol
I have to say they use the word Pro very lightly. So sad, things are changing quickly and also users looking for integrity in products. I know I am
Hey Thomas, can you review the new Qidi Tech X Plus 3D printer? The reviews on amazon are almost all perfect 5 stars. I would love to hear your opinion on either the smaller X Plus, or the bigger X-max.
Watching Tom struggle with a resistive touch screen is hilarious. (Hint: Use a fingernail or a stylus)
These Deltas tend to have compromised X,Y print area.
seems like all the downsides are due to the closed source board and the lame firmware. why not gut it and put a RAMPS/RUMBA/DUET board in it? :)
Frustrating printer, support is almost non-existent.
anyone have a Simplify 3d profile for this printer. WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL!!!!!!!
Just that brand name... _Lerdge_ Yuck. It sounds awful. And it's closed-source so it _is_ awful. The use of Bank Gothic font is also terrible, but I'm not fond about Call of Duty either.
$14.99 !!!! Sold.
How are you doing tom
@Thomas Sanladerer facts
@Matthew Poole Thanks for the comments about it. I have also just had it confirmed by FL Sun that they are using an 8-bit controller in this 3d printer. It's a shame that they still use an 8-bit controller with all the other nice things they have done in the design and manufacture of this printer.
@Thomas Sanladerer Ah - so the part's working like an old-fashioned gramophone... No wonder it seemed quite a bit louder than the 50db would have led to believe - that would explain a few things
@Envinite A part of this is because 3dprinting is a growing field/hobby and no one has a printer that ticks every box. Even the prusa, which has massive love, has its flaws. The difference is next week when someone suddenly discovers trinamic drivers, or that x motor is better than y, closed source is at a disadvantage. Customers can look at the new tech and decide if they want it. New tech developers can build to a known set of standards and have a market for their device. If Im happy with the machine and don't need the new tech I keep it as is. A closed source company is then forced to develop fixes to their problems that will only work on their own product, for problems they developed in the first place. New tech will have to be developed as a one off, AND customers have to wait for them to decide its worth and to make it before its available. Not a very nimble option. When you go with closed source, when the community moves on or your company simply decides not to make printers anymore, you're stuck. Get yourself a new printer. Everyone else can adapt and improve.
@CrimSun There is a difference between not offering customer support and providing a false sense of support and or shady practices..... Like with Newegg charging a 30% global restocking fee lol. Regardless, I'm just saying look into customer support reviews - as well as hardware reviews - because they can be deal breaking.
1:25 The build voulume cannot get taller, because to move the nozzle to the side, one or more arms must lower, moving the nozzle to the side AND down. So technically the build volume is a cylinder with a cone on top.
Great review as always Tom. What an awful machine this is.