Training the Modern Workforce Live — Episode 9: Dr. David Metcalf, Senior Researcher, METIL Lab, UCF

Training the Modern Workforce Live — Episode 9: Dr. David Metcalf, Senior Researcher, METIL Lab, UCF

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hello everyone and welcome to ology's podcast training the modern workforce live the weekly show discussing training and talent development solutions and best practices each episode we'll talk about a different training topic and make sure to keep an eye out for special guests and interviews from top training professionals with me as always i have colin forward ceo of ology for the last decade colin has provided major u.s hospitals and federal agencies with distance learning solutions he studied mobile technology at the university of central florida while earning a degree in computer science and his mba and joining colin this week is dr david metcalf dr metcalf is the senior researcher at the institute for simulation and training mixed emerging technology integration lab with a 15-year history in web-based and mobile learning he focuses on bridging the gap between corporate learning simulation techniques and the use of technology to improve human performance this week we're going to be talking about emerging technologies and simulation and training we've got some great questions on deck already but feel free to ask any questions that may come up in the chat and we'll try to get as many as we can all right colin over to you all right thanks adam and thanks dr metcalf for joining us there are a few reasons i'm really excited to talk to you today one you've been a mentor of mine for a decade now and back when i was studying at the meta lab we were working on a lot of the things that we're dealing with day to day when it comes to solving learning and development problems in the real world in addition this year i think everyone has been really focused on the task at hand how do they respond to covid how do they respond to everyone being remote and those are still important problems but i also want to make sure that we take some time to pick our head up and see what's coming at us on the horizon and i don't really know anyone who would be better at providing that perspective than you so glad to have you with us today for starters why don't you kick us off by giving us a little bit of a high level overview of the kind of things that you're working on these days yeah you mentioned about covid responsiveness and uh still trying to help the good fight as a social cause and all the tools and techniques that you talked about that people used to think we're crazy for thinking we can deliver courses over a mobile phone or to have these augmented and virtual reality experiences using leveraging artificial intelligence all seemed like a pipe dream at the time too but that's what research is and it was great to see you guys have that early exposure both in the lab and so proud of the spin-off of ology interactive too from from the lab and the success that you guys have had today i'm actually sitting in a place that kind of represents some of that crossroads between public private partnership in the new blockchain innovation lab that is being launched in about an hour by the mayor of oviedo by global blockchain ventures by ucf's incubator program and a number of the other projects and companies that are being incubated in that same capacity that same way that we talked about before almost from lab to launch is the term we used to use before too since we're so close to the space coast too but thinking about launching these efforts and i think that's a key theme for what's going on in the world right now there's so much turmoil and so many changes that there's trends towards re-skilling our workforces as there's fundamental shifts in industries or job changes there's going to be a number of things that new technologies are the way that you restart something and people are not as averse to that now as when there was a strong status quo when there's a lot of change people are willing to embrace and try some new things and that might lead to new careers for them that might need to lead to new potential for them and that's what as with my hat at ucf on as in a public private partnership and a public university we're trying to make sure that we give those opportunities out across academia industry military and government has a role in this too as well as our health care and even our nonprofits and social causes and missions that we're on too we try to make sure that we can help all those sectors of society and you got to see that by living for a few years into in the interdisciplinary culture that we had created i think that's going to be another key to the secret sauce too not just the technology but the human side of that and how we focus that technology and human together high tech and high touch is what we always used to say so those are some things that i think are our key themes that are changing not just the technology but the way people work and especially post covent how we're going to cover you can start with the technology or with some of the skill requirements changes but let's start in that general domain so what kind of reskilling are you seeing being required of the workforce the population that learning and development professionals are responsible for supporting but also what kind of skills are l d professionals going to need to develop themselves to support those folks yeah i've seen things the past year that i never thought i would see or that i wouldn't see for another 15 or 20 years in terms of people's adoption of technology in lieu of being able to meet in person but still trying to have experience even what we're doing today too you and i might be across a coffee table if it weren't for uh covid and other things too but this has been a great enabler it's also enabled new careers new opportunities to learn and new fields i'll give two examples one a very recent one and one from the starter code but the recent one is that this week we had the training magazine event which is usually one of the largest training events in in the world especially certainly in the us and uh instead they had to move to virtual but we were still able to do some things with some unique skill sets the number of people that were focused on doing being like show runners in virtual space that's a career that i wouldn't have thought that i would have heard about even uh even a year or two ago but there are people that are staging whole events and doing the the same type of scaled events you might do cirque du soleil style or big conference style and they're doing a great job with it we were able to host a virtual tour of the new verizon 5g living lab that just opened in lake nona recently and has a combination of ucfs in there but verizon the tavistock group they have their non-profit lake known institute as well as a group of investors out of berlin that have set up a whole sports technology accelerator in there so those are examples of other things that we would have seen that this the explosion of esport explosion of tracking human performance and using wearables all those things are in that incubator style space those are all examples of things that are going to grow a new skill set and new jobs over time so that's been pretty exciting it's pretty exciting to see bringing together the navy the va caci it was a great opportunity to show off capillary too and the tool set that ology has in context for the work that you had done early on in the fight against covid for turning some of those modules and making them available to i think over hundreds of thousands of people too is what i saw in some of your last numbers so it's pretty exciting about being able to give back and contribute to society that way when you start to put these pieces together that's going to create new jobs new skills i was looking at what skills i needed when the code first broke out and there were things i just wanted to know about i saw university of bath had an online certification course in biosecurity so that was my own time and i i had just this much more time not having a commute or drive into there and i used that time to uh reskill or to grow a new skill it was fun to get a chance to to learn something new that tied in and combined biosecurity with some of the other emerging learning technologies and advanced technologies that we've been able to work with and put those things together that's been pretty exciting so i mean covered a lot of ground there as far as the the new skills that the workforce might have to to take on and we could probably talk for hours just about that topic but i've also sat in on meetings where you have a chief learning officer in your conference room and you're just blowing their mind with the things that they need to start getting ready for and for these folks that are they're needing to support this kind of reskilling this transformation of the workforce what is it that they need to have on their radar what is it that they need to be keeping up with yeah that's a great question and uh we get that a lot it was really a showcase of some of that this week and at the verizon event too with training magazine because people are coming back and looking at those technologies some of the ones that we talked about and focused on were those 5g enabled technologies like augmented virtual reality we had some from medicine with rivenex and with metabiz that we were showing off but then also some of the more pedestrian technologies like something as simple as the card decks that we've kind of been known for in the lab too we did a covid card deck for the army early on and those are examples of some of the types of things that we're able to get ready quickly the same way that you guys mobilized quickly to see how we could all pitch in and lend a hand in any way that we could think of to help with that those were things that were really important we're able to show that we're able to show the mobile learning modules that you guys have done and we're also able to cast a vision for the things that are coming talk about how things like blockchain or right now with in the blockchain innovation lab are going to do things like enable a universal transcript that can track your whole career and the military might say from recruit to retire in the the lifelong learning you might say from womb to tomb so looking at how we create lifelong learners and some of the things that would enable that better enable that those were some of the things that were pretty exciting to be able to showcase to people and you could see those aha moments of them kind of capturing a vision of what that could be some of the things that we've been able to to do were to give the that that showcase and expand upon it so that we had all of those other examples that we could show i'll show a couple examples in a minute as well too but that might be something that will help people to better understand what we're talking about you touched on five topics that i want to dig into a little sure yeah anyway for each of them one thing i did want to make clarify a little bit because you referenced this card deck and i think that's that's really important to help people understand because we're about to talk about 5g and ar vr and all these hi-fi ways to to support learning but those card decks you mentioned those were something that were that the lab distributed in haiti after the earthquake when there was no connectivity so that was right these card decks for anyone who's not familiar are a gamified approach to self-directed learning fighting the forgetting curve teaching really practical skills in a self-directed way is that a good way to explain those it is yeah yeah that's something that we've had a history of too so if i can grab sharing and show a couple examples of that too i don't think i have the cards uh with me right now but physically but the cards are just the tip of the iceberg there's this whole notion of a trans media solution that we've talked about for a while mit started coming up with this idea and it was an opportunity to start off with a whole theme or storyline and be able to have me have your your training translate across different platforms so the cards could be the start and then it goes to a mobile app that mobile app also has an augmentation layer to it or has an online solitaire rummy game that teaches you the sequence of some of those things those are some of the areas that we've been able to start to build a stack of technologies so you have the lowest common denominator yeah you have the lowest common denominator and then you also have these other components that you're building upon when you're trying to get something out especially trying to get something out fast and to the broadest possible audience like you said we didn't know if they were going to have even power much less network connectivity when we went to haiti and those are examples that could be you know life-changing people especially in a disaster situation and you guys have done such a great job of pulling on those for civil affairs activities and other missions to help people across the globe it's been great and refreshing to see i'll give a couple examples here's the the examples of the cards just so that you can see it's as simple as creating a deck of cards a physical deck of cards but then you also have the ability to use mobile app formats for cards too just like you'd have with quizlet or something else but we always injected them and put them on steroids we actually made it so those cards had the spacing effect a basic level ai or adaptive learning component to it and those were some of the things we were able to execute on very rapidly having this framework for those mobile apps and the other components that we had those are some of the things that we saw early on that actually showed improvements in learning nine to 16 improvement in learning outcomes which is pretty substantial using some pretty simple technologies and then you layer on top of it the things like augmented reality so whenever you highlight over any one of these cards it can launch a 3d animation or you can launch an example explainer video or even just take you right to the website that information comes from so that you have deeper information that again is always up to date so there's a lot of benefits of having this layered approach with transmedia to being able to do adaptive learning to being able to have multiple delivery methods for the content depending on what a person's situation or preferences those are things that give a lot of optionality and personalizations of learning and um some of it doesn't have to be the highest in technology can scale from that low end yeah i appreciate you you explaining that because i always thought that was one of the most interesting things about working with metal lab was how often we spent talking about the the bleeding edge and then a lot of the times the adoption really starts here with the thing that is accessible and is intuitive to those end users yeah yeah sometimes it's it's as simple as doing things like a quick mobile app too and i know that you guys are expert at that we we had to do some that we had initially done for ebola but having this whole history of doing these quick and rapid examples that we can convert allowed us to do personal protective equipment training for the va in a mobile-friendly game environment too you have to put on and take off your protective equipment successfully and this is something that the va donated back to the world of healthcare workers and to the whole federal government and anybody in in in need of it too through uh fedtraining.org so they've put it out there publicly for people so a lot of these resources that we're creating are going far and wide as the tens of thousands of people are using this month from what we hear so it really gives a chance for us to feel like we're giving back we're using the tools in our toolkit and many of the people are probably listening have a lot of tools in their toolkit too that if we just think about how we focus for the social good especially during these troubling times of pandemic we can do a slight shift of things we might already have to be able to contribute well to uh society and help everyone get through this well so i i want to make sure that we spend some time on the technology that i've started hearing more and more about recently and that's ar and vr and i i think it's a combination of the fact that 5g is now rolling out you mentioned the verizon center there in central florida that is a great uh proving ground for a lot of that technology i'm starting to hear a lot more of that from our customers in the government in the private sector pretty much everywhere so what do you see as the most immediate impact of ar and vr in the training space yeah well anything that's really high consequence that is either really costly to do or potentially dangerous to do those are things that shine when you think about augmented virtual reality and rather than having to go and build a whole simulation scaled center you can have it in the size of a headset or a mobile device some of the things we're looking at is you don't have to have million dollar studio to do some of this stuff you can do some of it on your own phone and then play it back on as something as simple as a 15 google cardboard i don't know if you if the audience has seen the google cardboard before too but those are some of the things that are pretty exciting because it doesn't have to be the high-end work like frankly like we do but that's some places to start and then there's also so much promise in some of the areas that you think about where you need to get a lot of knowledge aptitude before you get the skill aptitude so think about which all the things you need to know before you're a surgeon and before you actually start cutting on your first patient or think about all things you need to know before you get in a pilot seat where 175 250 people's lives are your hands those are all things that are examples of that kind of high consequence and what that might look like we put it in the context of a lot of the the new internet of things space too and where you can use augmented reality to almost have a digital twin of anything from yourself using some of the data that you might have on a smart watch or something like that to your cars and vehicles especially when you don't just take one but a whole fleet or whole city worth to know how you can be safer how you can be healthier and how you can do a digital twin of traffic patterns even smart city elements and that translates down to the hospital where we do we all do a lot of health care work too and that's another place that we see those benefits to even in your home too the the wit uh uh home smart home that we have in lake nona is an example the showcase place to do those types of things those are some of the things sorry those are some of the things that we've seen that have been beneficial that wit home we actually if you remember we decked out the whole back garage as an all-white space so that we could have this matrix construct effect and be able to go and build out our own live and virtual sets and even do things like anatomy lessons or reskin the whole room with new furniture and what that would look like to visualize going from a hospital room to a child's room back and forth and be able to do those things without the cost and expense of doing it all the expense was the cost of a headset we didn't have to reconfigure rooms constantly either those are some of the promise of wearing the headsets like the ones you see here good colin yeah yeah headsets are coming a long way right i remember seeing some i remember seeing folks playing around with google glass years ago in in the lab more recently i get the sense that the more affordable headsets like the quest 2 may be playing a role like the iphone did in 2007 there were smartphones before the iphone but yeah that that really changed the game so for people that are looking to dip their toes in the water try and get a try and get started on ar and vr and aren't ready for the various or the hololens two level systems what do you think are some of those entry level applications that these you know prosumer or consumer level hardware platforms are enabling yeah it doesn't take high-end hardware anymore some of the things that we built four or five years ago on a high-end hololens like you see in this area too can now be played back on your mobile device either just in your hand or just by putting it into a little cardboard slider like with google glass or some of the plastic ones too those are proving to be effective for a lot of types of training especially when you want to give this experiential like being in the cockpit with a pilot for for boeing training those are all things that hold a lot of promise and don't have to break the bank some of the things we've been seeing is covered mindfulness training and de-stress training too that people are doing with these simple goggles we're also seeing that while we push the state of the art on the high end with ar and vr glasses like you said the oculus even some of the ones that are on your sony playstation that are only a couple hundred dollars to might be affordable for certain applications too without a lot of a lot of extra stress those are some of the things that we're constantly exploring how do we bring this technology out to the masses covet has actually made some of that happen faster too when you want to have these virtual experiences virtual tours of places you wouldn't be able to go right now for obvious reasons those are things that there's huge opportunities in let's call it virtual tourism for a minute and the high consequence careers we're also looking at that high end though we have to keep pushing the envelope and here's an example of something that's helping out the medical space this is a company that our outside firm invested in to real view imaging out of israel hololens uh is a thing of the past when you look at this because you have these these holograms without glasses and the ability from taking israeli military technology to bring it to operating rooms so that surgeons can plan out heart surgeries those are some of the types of things that we're doing right now in the environment even down to some of the stuff that we've worked on together too with navy corpsman and being able to take a critical skill path to learn about things like hemorrhage control if you're a corpsman or if you're a medic and when you're doing that we can track all of those results all the way through the process and have a competency-based learning platform so it's not necessarily about just the technology you're seeing these cool holograms it's about what that enables for us how does that further enable us to realize the vision of personalized learning competency-based education that can be tracked throughout a person's whole career using things like blockchain that's where these mixed emerging technologies as in our name start to come together in new and exciting ways and ar vr is just one of those in our to in the toolkit that people might want to explore for themselves yeah so i i have one more question in the ar vr space because you should have a bunch of medical examples a good friend of mine dr golol said at uab in birmingham he's been telling me about how he's been using vr environments to plan his approaches for neurosurgery apparently to to some really positive effects he was telling me about a patient that was able to regain mobility start swimming again after the procedure and a lot of times especially in the military who we work with a lot people talk about training how you work or training how you fight so what exactly does that process look like what does instructional design look like for supporting those kind of training environments yeah we have to start thinking multi-dimensionally don't we not just in 3d space but over the course of time and also multi-factor in terms of our sensory too some of the things that we're having to do if you're going to have a truly visceral experience you need to be able to touch it with you know vr gloves you need to be able to smell it with the olfactory sensibilities too some of these things you may not want to smell but you need to be desensitized to that for the first time that you experience it in real life too if you're going to be on the front lines of saving lives like we're showing here those are all things that we have to start to factor in the instructional design process now we can crawl before you walk and walk before you run in that too but even just starting to think about how you script out and provide good storytelling that meets objectives learning objectives those are things that was just a new skill for some people that's storytelling combined in there with those notions those are things to be very important to creating a compelling and engaging and appropriate use of these advanced media just to do it because of the cool factor you know that's not what we're about a lot of these examples like in the pilot seats 20 to 30 improvement in training outcomes in complex weather so that's life-saving potentially in the breast cancer screening having 3d imagery versus 2d imagery and teaching people how to read 3d breast examinations and the imagery from that too leads to 23 improvement in outcomes across 5000 patients at emory and 49 reduction in callbacks that saves the hospital money that saves the person the anguish of going to get a second look those are things that you could take to the bank and why to use this technology maybe why do you invest in this technology that's where i think the outcomes come in yeah real quick because i want to make sure we we talk about blockchain and segmentation and learning but i can imagine that training professionals might be a little bit intimidated by these developments does that mean that everyone in l d is going to have to become a video game designer it does not we have interdisciplinary teams we hire people that maybe look a little non-traditional from the typical instructional designer and web programmer but they're vital parts of the whole integrated or sometimes we call it a transdisciplinary team we transcend our disciplines and all work together it's forming that right team who's going to do that back-end lms and beyond for you the lms the lcms if you're looking at content or even the competency management and that's where things like blockchain technology is another form of database storage that can be trusted across multiple organizations those are the types of things that not everybody has to be concerned about if you are the head of a project you need to know who can do all the pieces and be able to orchestrate pulling those pieces together so i think that'll be a new skill set for some training directors or people who are close to make sure they have that big picture vision to be able to capitalize on putting those people those human resources and talent management together in a cohesive way that can be high performance to produce next generation learning so i think that's where the rubber meets the road that makes good sense i'm glad we put that in perspective it does take a team for these kind of things and you're going to need specialists and you're going to need generalists to really do a good job so you alluded to it in your answer there too but i actually i had a large med device manufacturer ask me this week why do we need a new system we already have a number of learning management systems and i know that you've been involved with efforts like the the military's total learning architecture where they're trying to address fragmentation making sure that that learners have a cohesive record of all the competencies they've achieved what are some of the developments in that space that are helping combine these systems that have unique strengths and unique weaknesses to make sure that the the learner is getting the best of all of those worlds yeah yeah if you're looking at the business of learning too which many people have to do the the roi on on this to return an investment of how much money a company spends on training and also there's things in there nested like compliance and hr and other things too that you have to consider those are things that are enabled by a learning management system however if you have four or five often times we've seen big organizations save saw one organization save 160 million dollars up front and then eight million dollars a year recurring by doing consolidation of these and getting more capability getting a next generation software as a service style capability something you didn't have to host yourself and keep track of everything yourself you could do it for a third of the cost of what you're doing those are things that it's not just about the next generation capabilities but it's oftentimes about those capabilities and the cost savings combined for a better effect that's when you start to make decisions good business decisions about how you lead your organization and about how you do that for the benefit of the learners the benefit of the bottom line of the organization and of course meaning all the things you have to do quality wise with compliance with having a reskilled and freshly skilled talent base within your organization so so not to put words in your mouth but this is definitely my perspective as the technology has developed a lot of these builder buy equations have shifted over towards buy as the vendors are taking on a lot more of the risk for these l d shop is that right that's a good way to say it i think without exceeding full control to the vendors because we don't want to do that but to share that responsibility and share the cost savings in that so that's what a good vendor partnership looks like and that's what i'd encourage but for the vendor they could be a good partner to your organization that that means that there probably is a lot of opportunity like you mentioned to get a better roi consolidating some of your learning tools but what about what about integration what about getting that learner record to be shared across multiple systems that are all providing a really unique benefit yeah that's oftentimes a challenge or a struggle is to get that that equation what we're finding is that in the total learning architecture that you mentioned before too having an enterprise approach that you can put the right piece together almost in a best-in-class solution means that if you have an lms right now you can build on top of it you don't have to throw it out for all the good things it's doing but you can build capabilities around it and having that ecosystem of tools and preferably ones that get the job done that aren't too expensive but that bolt onto each other to meet those various needs of the stakeholders that's an important part of how you define what that especially if you're in a larger organization what that enterprise architecture is going to look like and then what about for learners because we've seen people taking lots of shots at this problem mozilla had has their badges a lot of other folks are trying to provide that i don't know if you want to say that the top layer or the back end the credentialing backend for data that can provide a transcript for someone who maybe got training on a job maybe got training at a school and then maybe at a conference so you're sitting in a blockchain lab right now how do blockchain and any other technology start to approach that problem yeah so tracking competencies the knowledge skills and attributes or abilities that someone has to across time and space can be difficult especially when you're bridging the gap between live activities virtual activities some of the constructive activities that might even be just about building skill on the job or where you're at those are all things that are really exciting that you want to capture even if you think about some of the things that are being done online now through media like watching videos at khan academy should we get credit for some of those things the life skills that we bring to the table from uh working in a particular field wouldn't be great to be able to capture that performance data as well as the learning data some of the newer competency management systems can do that for you and they can take what's from your lms they can take from live work experience they can take from your history of things that you've been working on and your credentials and put that all together the question becomes how do you make sure that spans across multiple organizations and multiple systems that's where something like blockchain comes in i mentioned the universal transcript we're working on that with the army right now too we just uh won a grant this past year for building the world's first blockchain and quantum defense simulator so we can simulate what those records are before we put them into practice and be able to see if they are going to live up to the promise and the hype of being able to give you everything that you need from the time you enter the workforce all the way to the time that you retire or even beyond those are things they're pretty exciting because this sense of distributed trust multiple organizations all trusting the blockchain record even if they don't know each other or know to trust each other that's really a new superpower of the internet is the way i look at some of the functions of blockchain beyond bitcoin and beyond cryptocurrency and how that's going to fundamentally change certain vertical industries education and health records are certainly some of those that we're very focused on that we see a lot of promise for as we go forward yeah i love the way you said that especially now that we're in the the first hype cycle in three years for cryptocurrency this is really what made it exciting at least starting with ethereum the idea that we were able to create those distributed trust systems i i couldn't have said it better myself i do have one more question for you i know you have a ceremony to get to um but on on this idea of integration and data practices for someone like myself or for a learning technology vendor we've tracked scorm and and now more recently tin can x api those are systems being driven by the dod i know there are other initiatives out there that are looking to provide some sort of standardization in learning data is there anything that for folks like myself in this space that you think that we should be tracking really closely x api or otherwise yeah certainly x api is on our list for anybody who's doing things in corporate or in government there's equivalents like the lti and ims standards on the more academic and education side of things and there's also some efforts at the ieee to try and have some melding of those things there are standards that are about how you handle the data about the student and there's also standards about how you handle the data for the content too we're starting to see those merge too in some of these standards stacks or decks i tend to look at some of the things that are starting to become more mature and are going through ieee or bsi or iso as some of those standards that are going to have a rock-solid future too but there's many stepping stones to those uh standards that are coming out now that are endorsed by other organizations that build up to those higher level standards so that's what i track and that's what i advise some of our groups to the other thing that i'd be remiss to not have people think about is the new standards for cyber security the amount of times that human capital records and all of our performance especially in the military are being attacked and being held ransom health records any of those things the new cyber security standards like the cmmc for cyber security capability maturity model are examples of some of those things that we all need to pay attention to or have your technology people pay attention to as we go forward whether you're in industry whether you're in government military for sure or even in healthcare too healthcare is the most ransomed data out there and the most valuable data even more so than your credit card so those are things if you're in the health profession just all have to be careful not just for the sake of hipaa and the privacy of our patients but for the the good order and functioning of being able to provide services to our our patients that's what's at stake so i'd be remiss not to talk about those standards as well yeah as software eats the world everyone's in cyber security right we all have a duty of care even down your own personal responsibility to not fall for phishing scams or other things like that too where people trying to get your data from you that's the most common way they call it social engineering it's not a fun term to think about that that's what they call it yeah i really appreciate your time today yeah i hope we can do this on a somewhat regular basis because i know you're always working on new things and i think that folks listening will be always interested to get the updates on the cutting edge stuff that you're working on yeah best of luck with the opening of that space thank you i appreciate it again we're pretty pretty excited i'm going to turn my camera for a second too you see the start of our mayor and you see someone else in the background you probably recognize uh too that's already here early so uh yeah it's gonna be a good event and a perfect example of that re-skilling people being creative and growing into new things that we're all going to need to do to get past the current events but it's always great to spend time with you guys and uh to hear how well you're doing and to have a conversation with your audience too all right well thank you dr metcalf and enjoy the ceremony today yeah thanks everyone joining the modern workforce live presented by ology uh if you'd like to explore previous episodes subscribe to our ology youtube channel or like us on linkedin and facebook and if you like to connect with one of our learning specialists to see how ology can help improve your training head to ology.com and schedule a demo or drop us a note alright see y'all next time

2021-02-16 20:32

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