Zakir Hussain in conversation with Evelyn Glennie Part 2 | Beings Of Rhythm
no i mean i could write it in the notation as the drummer's use yeah yep that's fine that can be done but i was allowed to be able to create my own part okay yes so even though i was playing the parts that i was playing along with Edgar and Bela and the orchestras those were written in the drum rotation right but but that would those were only some and then that half the time i was more like an accompanist to the orchestra and the soloists and for that i was left to my own devices yes but i had to be aware of how many bars do i have what do i do i mean and so i actually found myself over many rehearsals actually forming a plan a plan b plan c uh depending how the room was sounding that day how how my ears were how my fingers were doing and so i would pick and choose whichever plan uh seemed easy to execute on that particular day incredible really so do you think that other tabla players could perform this piece of music oh absolutely oh there's no reason why not uh especially my tabla concerto which i did the triple concerto yes but the tabla concerto uh uh same thing the the issue of course was the tuning as you mentioned earlier i mean my tabla is tuned to just one pitch and how does that work uh with with the orchestra and the harmonies and the counterpoints and all that and everything and so edgar meyer found a way to be able to have a B tabla all the way through the three movements and uh he worked out harmonically elements that would work with just that b tabla all the way through so i didn't have to switch tables or anything so wow that was very nice so that helped me when i wrote my tabla concerto so i mean i i had my c tabla and i figured out a way you know using a triad uh system and even though i went from mode to mode to mode the c was common and uh and and it worked and it was simple because i took all the compositions that i had double compositions and then just uh assigned parts to parts of those compositions to different sections of the orchestra with some melodic notes given so if i was doing it so all those elements were assigned and in some kind of melodic uh uh you know melodies and and harmonics and stuff and and punctuations by the horn section excuse me and so on so basically the orchestra ended up playing doubler and and and so but the scene worked all the way through and uh edgar helped me with the uh orchestration part of it there was another man called osam who was a pianist who lived in my who lives in my neighborhood who initially helped and so having you know i got by with a little help from my friends as an instrument have they changed over the years oh yes absolutely not only the instrument has changed but the playing technique has changed interesting yes uh because when we were first playing the instrument um 150 160 years ago there was no sound system and so the playing was different the projection was different it's like when you listen to broadway scores of uh 100 years ago or 90 years ago uh most of the songs except for a few which are you know better tarnish uh they are sung very high yeah and and very robust there's no business like show business and you know the the projection is is very strong is simply because uh i mean that's what they have to do uh nowadays you can wear a little uh skin color thing and and sing easily and and and adjust and so that's exactly what's happened with the tabla uh it's a young instrument it's only about 200 odd years old but the repertoire is almost 2000 years old so it's still being transposed onto the instrument there's still a lot of stuff that has not been posted on so uh in the old days that instrument tabla was played also like as if they were playing a bongo drum or a conga drum a lot more like that and over the years when the ins when the sound system came into play a much more subtle excuse me element was put in and uh so that's change also brought a whole new set of compositions that the maestros composed a whole new repertoire emerged and and and that new repertoire caused a chain reaction of other repertoires based on what new stuff was being put into play and and therefore new technical arrangements and and finger techniques and so on and and so yes the instrument has developed and it is still being developed i find some young public players of today uh you know uh you know i look at them in my jaw drops oh yes the way they play though it's amazing uh of the the way the hands move and the kind of combinations that they have uh uh you know practice that i mean i i can't even imagine that that is possible to do you know we we brought the music to a certain point and they pick it up from there and then go another step or two further i'm sure you have a similar thing i mean you you play mallets differently than the malice who played a hundred years ago or in africa in the bellaphone system or whatever so uh i mean you should tell us i mean i know it it it is true and it's hard to step back just you know to to really um appreciate the developments when you're in the the world i mean whenever i see you perform my jaw drops every single time and i just think how on earth can anything more be developed from from you know physically and from the instrument because it's just incredible it's just incredible and i think the one difference i've seen i suppose with all of percussion or or a lot of percussion is the combinations of different musical styles of bringing middle eastern music to indian music to african music and so on and so this whole mixture of techniques and styles on different instruments so perhaps using certain tabla um strokes and so on but on something on a completely different instrument yeah and then that brings you know another life into something and i find really fascinating but i think with with tabla you know i mean i have to confess i only know the very basic strokes and it's i'd love to know i'd love to to have much more knowledge and i know it takes a whole lifetime and many lifetimes and so on but i'm a great believer that it's never too late but you know i find that what's fascinating about being a percussion player is all the different muscle groups that can be used and one of the things that i find during this lockdown is is spending a month on picking up a different instrument now i know that sounds very trivial just a month and so on but actually because the concerts have more or less stopped during lockdown that actually the focus to do something and to to keep playing to keep being curious and so on it's been really important and so for example last march i spent a month literally concentrating on the irish boron um and it uses a whole different group of muscles and so on with the the body and what was fascinating was that when i played the boron 30 odd years ago the techniques that have developed since within that time has been enormous and then the type of music that's played has been absolutely fascinating and you can literally go all over the world playing the boron because it fits in with so many different types of music absolutely and it's the same with tabla i think that it can now be a pop group a rock group or a folk group it can be in so many different elements a concerto a recital you know all sorts it's amazing how that happens i had the honor of working with a boater on maestro john joe kelly and so we we actually made a record together and and and just so he taught me some of that he said hold the stick like a pen and and so i learned i have a border on uh hanging in my living room that he gave me i love science but with the celtic uh designs on it and it's it's a and and it's a beautiful instrument but i have to say one thing about uh lifetimes and you know it takes a whole lot of lifetime to learn all this stuff and and i don't know if that actually is true or not i mean i find someone like ravi shankar he arrived with his master at the age of 11 and started to learn and by the time he was in his late 20s he was already performing yes so in an improvised tradition and and at the same time as he was performing he was telling people who were listening to him and all that this takes a lifetime to learn and and and that is a great aliyah khan the sarod maestro uh extraordinaire uh he would tell people oh 20 years of practice 18 hours a day and then you might be able to perfect one note but at the same time he was already a professional performer when he was 19. yeah so it it it's just i mean it's kind of hard to put two and two together there but uh uh i i feel that uh when i'm told by somebody that oh i don't know the technique of this instrument and it's so difficult and so on and so forth uh my reaction is why aren't you just playing it like a percussion instrument yeah yeah you are a percussionist and yeah it is that's the instrument right there and you just mentioned it uh using a uh tabla technique on a particular instrument or something and it making sense i saw an uzbekistani deuter player and and we did some work together and he's playing like this and it was uncanny because it looked like he was playing tabla interesting and then so i said to him put your instrument aside and and just do this onto my tabla move go from here to there wow and he did and he it looked like the way i keep my hand on the table incredible and i said okay play a little bit and and he just did and and and and i said play deuter on the tabla your instrument on the tumblr and and and and some of the sounds that he was making were like i would make the sounds on the tablet so i mean it's i guess we are all cousins lost cousins so i mean so i always tell uh everybody just you know take the instrument and and say hello to it because and see if it welcomes you and i mean you touched on yourself picking up one instrument and i guess uh experiencing that world particular world so has that been the routine through this lockdown at home um yes it it it has more or less um yes i mentioned the irish boron for the first month and then the second month i went on to the spoons and the bones and that's been absolutely fascinating because i was um i stumbled across the rajasthani cartel the wooden curtains which are extraordinary and i remember when i made a visit to india back in the 1990s and uh and i actually traveled with a boron because at that time i was really into boron plane i mean obviously i was doing doing some other percussion but um and some incredible indian players were playing and there was this cartel player and i had never seen anything like it in my entire life and then of course years he was almost dancing oh it was it was tough it was incredible that the the clarity the speed the the musicianship the showmanship the the command it was absolutely incredible and just these this pair of bits of wood in his hand you know in any way so during this month with the spoons and the bones and then discovering the cartals gosh you know it was incredible but i couldn't find that much on the internet you know how to negotiate these instruments so as you said a minute ago you just sort of you know have the instrument and say hello to it and and see what's what and and you know even if things are completely and utterly not wrong but but just you know non-authentic or whatever it might be just spending time with it and that's what i did and so i'm just trying to find some information and trying to find someone who can you know maybe just begin to guide a little bit with these cartels but anyway and then the next month was um the kanjira which fascinating absolutely incredible instrument um and so i went through the months like that really the pandero the brazilian pandero the tambourine all sorts of instruments and it's been just really really fascinating to find obviously these different ways just using the muscle groups um different types of players different types of music that it's being used for nowadays and it just keeps your mind really really fresh and and active and it keeps your feet firmly on the ground because you know that it's just a never ending journey of discovery it definitely is in india we will be we believe that every instrument has a spirit and so it lives i mean uh a dear friend of mine john mclaughlin once said that and he was giving away certain guitars that he had and i said why are you doing that i mean he said because they're just sitting in my music room and they've been sitting for a year or two years and if they sit they will die yeah the instrument will die the spirit will leave and then so i i'd rather have it played by somebody yeah you know worthy rather if than just sitting there and it's the same in india the spirit lives in there so that's why i say when you say hello to the instrument and you communicate with it and address it and try to uh you know find your way in it and if it befriends you the spirit it will show you the way it will show you how to find yourself in that and and how to be able to connect to the language that emanates from that instrument and and and so that would happen and and and that that i definitely feel is true and i found to through my pandemic uh time uh uh you know i play with say dave holland and chris potter a jazz trio or i play with bailiff like an edgar meyer uh that trio or i like with indian classical musicians and i'm doing tour after tour after tour uh like three tours back to bear one an indian classical and then these this tour and then the very next day flying to start another tour with somebody else i find myself playing with all these different uh instrumental combinations and therefore find finding ways to be able to technically fit into it in doing so over the years no practice of what my core is where i belong what i come from where i'm plugged into the source and so in the pandemic time i found myself uh going back i mean i have recordings of my father from way back when when i was 12 13 14 years old and and and i was listening to it and i found uh that you know as a whipper snapper young tubla player i learned all that stuff and i executed it and and i felt okay my job is done i've learned the stuff and i've played it uh but like i told you earlier he told me the whole history about the maestros and and and the compositions and and how it emerged and significance of certain phraseology in there and combinations and permutations and so on i didn't really pay any attention to it as a young man and then by the time i was starting to you know find my wings i took off and and didn't pay attention so i found myself going back and listening to those recordings and and suddenly the the scene was right there in front of me it's five in the morning and i'm listening to him talk and then the words and and and and and what they actually i mean interpreting them it's like taking a poem written by shelley or whoever uh uh dylan or anybody and and and and finding that that's just that two-line couplet can have a thousand meanings and thousand interpretations and uh so that that i suddenly found that oh my god this is what he meant oh my god this is what he was trying to tell me and and and and i found myself re looking at all the stuff that i had learned from him and noticing these nooks and corners and these shades that i just kind of overlooked because i just want i was just playing them and i said my job's done but i guess it wasn't and i suddenly found myself connecting with young tabla players and saying oh you know wait a minute that particular thing that i taught you uh try it this way or do this to it and and and it's like but you told us to i said throw that out the window i'm sorry my apologies but you know and and so uh this revelation has been like a new injection of uh you know excitement of new discoveries and and i suddenly find that there is life ahead and and that you know living is worth it and it's it's so much more fun and i have the pandemic to thank for that yeah and it's interesting isn't it really has there ever been moments over the years where you've just lost inspiration or you felt a bit kind of oh you're at a corner or not quite sure what to do at this point or not feeling inspired and how have you have you just let time deal with that what's happened in those times for me uh there were some jarring experiences that actually made me aware of that as a young man i was i started performing as a professional when i was 12. there was a teacher in my school who was sympathetic because he was a fan of my father's and and he saw that i was going to be doing that and that schooling is like okay i have to do this as well uh so he arranged with the principal of the school to allow me to go and play concerts and go play recordings and and and he took upon himself the responsibility of delivering my assignments to me so that i could do them so i'd find myself in a train going on a you know a day and a half journey to another city at night with the light on doing my assignments and and and so that but i was allowed to go and perform uh what happened was being a young kid performing uh i was being received like oh wow look at this child playing and doing all so there was a lot of adulation and and and i was basking in that in that focus on me and you know enjoying look at me the thing so for a few years i've enjoyed doing that though by the time i was like 16 and i was playing a concert and and one of the reviews that happened was really jarring to me because it was it shredded me it tore me to bits and over the months i have that review framed on the side of my bed in mumbai in india over the months i did not pay attention to it i thought it was all humbuck whatever uh i won't use the four letter words but uh and and i didn't pay any attention to it but i you know it was in the back of my mind because my ego could not accept that that happened and i kept thinking about it and thinking about it thinking about it and finally it dawned on me that the reviewer was right that i was just on autopilot that i was just doing these things that i've been doing for the past four years and you know package number one package number two package number three and and just waiting for the audience to clap and go wow and you know fabulous and so on and and and not you know growing not you know evolving into being somebody else and and so that uh really got me to go away uh into a into that remote uh place where uh students are sent to rediscover themselves so i went away and and it's it's it's very biblical it's for 40 days that you're on your own you're in a retreat the food is being delivered to your door in that little cabin and and for 15 16 17 hours a day you're with your music and was that your choice to go there that was my choice i took i took that choice and i went away uh it was in the summer it was very hard because i didn't go to school at that time what was very embarrassing for me i have to tell you the story is that my english teacher in the school used to read my reviews in the class and then analyze it for the grammar and and the phraseology and all that stuff for the class and that review was actually read in the class and it was quite an embarrassing situation but in any case so that made me go away and start to think and start to reorganize myself and and and and figure out uh you know that it was okay you know and the one thing that i came away from that was that one small success goes through a thousand gigantic failures you fail a thousand times to be able to be successful once and and and so uh to be able to accept that to be not threatened uh by the idea of falling flat on your face on stage in front of the audience and and that they did that was okay and and and it started to make sense why great maestros of music indian classical music uh would sound heavenly one day and just ordinary the other day it was not because they couldn't be maestros it's just because they were not satisfied with just being ordinary and they were trying very hard to find something else on that day but it was not coming but that was okay with them yeah it was all right you know that they looked silly in front of the audience that was fine and so to be able to accept that and not be threatened by that was the first lesson that i learned in those 40 days uh that i went away and so yes uh yes we do go through that period of of autopilot and then you must come out of that and and and and accept that uh that's just part of growing and i suppose no one else can sort it out for you i mean you have to do it yourself i have to do it myself another person has to do it themselves and so on yeah by accepting that yes you need to yeah but it's interesting because i remember um when i started playing in germany and i remember playing in in one city and and it it was a positive experience and and the agent said to me um that went well in this city don't expect success throughout the whole of germany just because you've been one success in one in one city that you will have to still work at all with the other cities uh perhaps in the uk you can have a great success in london but and you're normally then everybody else thinks you're then very successful throughout the whole country and it was a real um you know eye opener and it kind of was a great lesson because it it made me realize that don't take anything for granted basically you know just every performance just as though it's your your first performance and you'll give it the best you know shot that you can knowing that well some days it will be working for you and some days it won't it won't work for you that's true and uh and to learn to know that and accept that and not be threatened by it is i guess the first lesson of being a performer i imagine yes yeah it's interesting that you framed the review i did i mean it's right there by the side of my uh bed and and uh it's it's a lesson every time yeah just to look at it and and and remind myself you know miles to go before i sleep you
2021-02-18 05:48
