Tourism: Susan's Accessible Future for Airbnb
That was Unexpected – ep 11 – Airbnb Transcript Lisa Are you sick of the same old disability stereotypes? We were too, and we did something about it. Welcome to ‘That was unexpected’, a disability lifestyle podcast for everyone, brought to you by Youngcare and hosted by me, Lisa Cox. Join our amazing guests as we delve into topics that don't often hit the headlines. So let's do this. Prepare for the unexpected. If you low vision like me or have other accessibility requirements, check out our show notes. Before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of land on which we record. We pay respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging. Lisa Hello everyone, to carry on our recent theme of travel and tourism, today's guest is an absolute powerhouse in the travel industry. Susan Wheeldon is the country manager for Australia, New Zealand and Oceania at Airbnb. So welcome, Susan and thanks for joining us virtually from Sydney. Susan Thank you very much for having me today. I'm excited to join. Lisa Now, it's really good to have you here. So as I said, you’ve got a really extensive history, one with Airbnb, but you were in the cabin crew with Virgin before that. So why did you decide to go and start working with Airbnb? Susan I think I'd been out of travel for about ten years after I'd worked for the airline, and I was at Google at the time, when Airbnb approached me, it was just a really interesting company, one, because it was obviously high growth to travel, which absolutely everybody loves it. It was great to get back into the travel space after almost 15 years working in finance, tech startups, and that kind of space. But more importantly, the thing that actually really attracted me was that Airbnb’s mission is for anyone to belong anywhere. And it's one of the few companies where that is the basis of every decision that is made in your organization. And for someone who comes from a tiny country town, you know, it's very easy to feel out of place, whether that's in a big city.
And I thought, right across the world, there are people, who have the right to feel like they can belong anywhere. And I thought how amazing that this is a company that actually wants to progress that. So for me, it was an easy decision and one I've loved. Lisa Oh that's fantastic. So that sounds like a real, I suppose, point of difference. Would you say it is? Susan It's definitely a very mission-driven organization and so there's a lot of work that happens in the philanthropic space and that kind of thing that is all about, just, I guess, trying to be a positive influence on the world. Lisa That's fantastic. That's certainly what we're trying to do here, you know, in a different way. But also of all the Airbnb, what they call them residences or houses, of all the Airbnb places. How many roughly. And you don’t have to give exact figures. How many are accessible? Susan Well, that's a really good question. We do have that number globally. So we know that we have, verified almost half a million accessibility features in just under 200,000 homes across the world. And that's done in a variety of ways. We do that through machine learning. So there's actually some really clever technology that can 3D scan a photo and understand what's in it.
And then we do human verification. And the reason why this is really important is we started doing accessibility about 2018. And at that time it was a single accessibility search filter which was wheelchair accessible, which obviously is a great place to start, but doesn't cover all the needs that that are in the accessibility space. But what we found is, all of our listings are created by hosts, so it's all user generated content. And for most hosts, they're wanting to do the right thing. So they go, oh yes, I'm in a single-story house. My house is wheelchair accessible, but they forgot about the small lip between the, you know, driveway into their front door or they've forgotten about the width of their door, because it's just not a space that they necessarily know. And that's why we've then moved to this verification program, because we knew hosts were trying to do the right thing, but not all of the time did they know, what was right for them to do through there as well. So that's part of the reason why we've started on the journey. But some of the things that we have done locally, which I'm really proud of, is we've partnered with a group called What Ability. And they provide camps, within New South Wales for, children and their families just to give them opportunities. Experiences allow them to thrive and flourish and to, you know, network and have a group of peers that they can go with. And that's been really great for us because we've been able to find that accommodation that caters to their needs with some of these, accessibility features, searches that we've got now. Lisa That's awesome, and I'm really glad you guys recognize the difference. And on top of that, just because someone says is accessible doesn't necessarily mean there's anything that's accessible except for a big driveway or something like that. So was it 200,000 globally that you said were accessible? Cool. How many of those are Australian?
Susan So there's 165 that is globally. We don't break the numbers out by country. But then we do have it. So for example, like when What Ability to go to search, they use those search filters and that's how they find them based on the geographic location that they're looking for, whether that's outside Sydney, outside Melbourne, wherever it may be. But it's certainly one that we're, we're growing, and continue to find ways of how we can get more and more onto the platform. Also part of that is also we now have 13 accessibility search filters. So that's up 40% globally, that people have been searching for it. So we know that that demand is there. So we want to make sure that as many of our listings as possible, we know the accessibility features that are in them, but also that we're able to find more of these properties and bring them on board as well. Lisa Yeah, that's brilliant. And all credit to Airbnb for having and crack having a go. And as you said before, it's a start. We might not get it right or perfect, but we're starting and that's important because so many businesses like oh it's scary. We don't know what to do. So we won't start.
With the Paralympics coming up, they're looking at accessibility a lot more. Of course it shouldn't take Paralympics to look at accessibility, it should happen all the time. But looking at Australia what do you think we're doing right in the accessibility tourism space? Susan I think we're definitely getting more and more awareness of it. And I agree with you. It shouldn't take a hero sporting event to get that awareness, but it's great that they do exist because I think then those things do just give people an ability to think about if they're building a house, if they're designing a house, you know, how could they possibly do that? That would enable, you know, future use of the property to be used for that. And one of the things that's actually quite useful for us, being we're actually a worldwide Olympic and Paralympic partner, and so we actually use that. So we call it an at events push. So when you have a big event you obviously have a lot more demand.
And so we need more houses. And what we've actually done specifically in Paris, which is I think this week that that is launching, the Olympic Games, there is we've actually gone and found a thousand listings that have accessibility features in Paris alone, so that we can use that moment to find those listings and bring them on board. And so that's a number of initiatives that we do as well as our partners ahead of the Olympics. So I'd like to think in the lead up to 2032, that we'd be able to run a similar program and just increase the number of those homes that have got, those accessibility features so we can support those who have got reduced mobility. Lisa That is awesome. We'll have to get a list of those Paris places with no stairs, because I went to Paris pre disability. But there's no way I'd get around the now in a wheelchair. Susan Well good news is still some with availability, so it's not too late to head over to the Olympic Games.
Lisa So in in your experience, what sort of things apart from no stairs, what sort of things are people with disabilities asking for, what sort of access requirements? Susan So things that we commonly forget about, which is how wide is the driveway and can you get out of the side of a car, in the garage or in the driveway. So sometimes a single garage or a single driveway doesn't have that space. And the width of the front door is another one or the width of the doors internally. Because in some buildings, when they put on fire regulations, the door frames have become slimmer. Showers is a really important one. So, is there access for a wheelchair that doesn't have a lip into the shower or into the bathroom? Are there handrails there as well? Are there emergency alarms. They tend to be more custom-built homes than the average home. But basically looking at a whole raft of things, and then we continue to obviously have a team internally, who then help us to understand what are the needs and whether or not that, vision impaired, hearing impaired, what any of those pieces, they help us understand how their needs, surfaced in the product, how we can service them better, and how we can help out, how to service those things as well. So ongoing program, but there's certainly lots, lots in that.
Lisa And it's really good to hear that it's happening and is there a requirement from the house the homeowners too? Is there an advantage of having an accessible home? Susan Well, as we touched on, there's a 40% increase in searches for accessible homes. So the advantage for a host is the more people who can use your home, the more likely that you're going to get bookings and get booked more often. And then the other thing that I always think about is, you know, you only need to have someone in your family who's had a broken leg and is in a wheelchair for a period of time, or someone who's elderly and has mobility issues, and you realize, gosh, I wish when this place was designed that it'd considered that that might be something down the line. So for us, it's always, you know, long term future proofing is great to talk to as well. And then there's those ones which, some of them are slightly easier changes in terms of, you know, whether there's, bars in bathrooms, that's slightly easier for someone to adapt to, versus if you've got a double storey house, putting a lift in is obviously, something that's a little bit harder to do kind of post build. But we continue to kind of understand what the needs are and how do we help use technology and human eyes to understand what already exists. You know, there are 5 million listings globally. And then how can we make sure that if someone is searching for it, a host may not be aware that they have a completely accessible house, because they've never considered it?
But if we can help them to understand that helps to grow the space as well. Lisa I definitely I suppose if the, if the hosts or potential hosts are listening. I've mentioned it a million times. There have been times I've gone away with families or large groups that I'm the only disabled person there. But it's not just about making your place accessible for that one single person. It's also the two or 10 or 20 people that they bring with them for accommodation as well. Lisa Oh, brilliant. Perfect. Now, I might have touched on this question before, but compared to the rest of the world, what is Australia doing in whether it's Airbnb or generally in tourism that you don't see the rest of the world doing?
Susan I think we're probably quite fortunate that we've got some very well-known advocates in the space, and I think people being able to see, someone and to be able to understand the need. And I think I remember hearing an interview with Dylan Alcott, and he talked about hopping on and off a plane, and it never occurred to me about what happens when you're on a plane and you don't have your wheelchair. And if that's a long-haul flight, and how you access a bathroom without a chair on board. And so you've been able to have those situations highlighted, I think gives people awareness, and awareness means that people can advocate and make changes. And I think Australians want everyone to get a fair go. You know, we want everyone to be treated equally.And so I think awareness is the number one thing you can do. The more that people are aware, the more they're going to help advocate and push for those changes, which, you know, as you said, it's a journey, but one that we all need to go on together just to make sure that, you know, back to Airbnb's mission, that anyone can belong anywhere and everyone should have access to anywhere that they need to get access to. Lisa So a great, great mission that you guys have so do you have any personal connection with disability? Susan So probably the closest example I have is when my dad had a stroke. He lost all of the function on one side of his body and he had to learn to speak again. He had to learn to write again. He had to learn to walk again. And I guess it was my first experience of understanding mobility issues or language issues. And so watching him, you know, saying, I know that's a thing you put on your foot but couldn't connect that that's a sock or, you know, going from someone who is, you know, incredibly mobile and active to then, you know, not being able to walk and having to use a frame. And it just it's funny because it it's impacted how I've looked at places that, you know, I've lived afterwards in terms of, you know, he still struggles with stairs. So, you know, looking at places now and going, well, actually, stairs are going to be difficult for, for him when he comes to visit, and now he no longer drives. So, you know, all of those things then play into a different type of life. He learned to write with his left hand, which his left-handed writing is actually as neat as my normal writing. It also taught me a huge amount about resilience. And my dad was in his, 50s when, when that happened, and it could have been very easy to just give up. And the fact that he's persevered and, you know, keeps pushing through. And I think that's, you know, anyone who, has a different starting point in terms of, body function, I think you can just see such a level of resilience, and deep strength in terms of having to work so much harder to do things that other people take for granted. And so that for me, I think was, it was a real awareness of it could happen to anyone at any time. And you just then have to work through and how do you make the best of that situation? And I think, my dad is a typical country guy, and so just that, you know, do what he could.
I know he was never going to get back to where he was, but making peace with, you know, and being really proud of what he was able to achieve. Lisa Yeah. Really sorry he had a stroke, but really good he's back doing what he's doing now, I suppose you mentioned before, taking things for granted. And I certainly did pre-my stroke and disabilities and everything. Backpacked around Europe, did all of the travel and just took it for granted that I can, you know, get a room. I mean, a really dodgy backpack joint or anywhere. I never thought twice about it, but now my husband will attest to this, that we have to plan everything meticulously and go and Google 100 times before we can get a hotel room or anything, anything like that. Susan And I think that's part of what Airbnb is trying to take the lift out, is, is you're exactly right. And we see this journey that's really interesting and this is across multiple different user groups. But you know, if a middle-aged male was to go on the site, they just go and find a listing that they like. If a female goes on the site, you generally want to check out the area that it isn’t on the ground floor. You know, you look more for safety features and then if you add on to that accessibility features as well. Is this listing at the top of a really steep hill? Does this listing have easy access to public transport or to, you know, transport that's available? And so you're absolutely right. It just makes it makes everything a little bit tougher. And I think that's where Airbnb is trying to get to a point where it's a case of how do we make this as easy as possible, so that you can at least know the things that you're searching for, are they available or not available?
And hopefully some of those accessibility features then give you a short list. Rather than trawling through thousands of properties, having to visually look at thousands of photos to work out, you know what's going to work. Lisa Through my socials, I saw that the UK was doing some awesome stuff with regard to accessibility, but I believe the same thing is happening over here and you've captured that a bit briefly previously, but could you tell us again what Australia Airbnb is doing around accessibility? Susan So, a lot of the ways that we obviously feed off the global program. So, any of those accessibility features are ones that then roll through to Australia as well. But then things like What Ability partnering with them to provide accessible homes for their camps that they run, and they tend to be for children up to kind of teenage age. And again, you're then putting 8 or 10 in a home together who've got all kinds of different needs. And so, to be able to help them to find a house that works for them, and they do this fairly regularly, and obviously it moves around where they're located and so we want to make sure that we can do more of that work. And the only way we can do that is if we can get more hosts on board. Who can, who can have those search, those accessibility features searchable. And so that for us is an area that we want to keep working on. I think part of that partnership with both the Paralympics and the Olympics is also then making sure that we can use those moments to drive some of the results, and outcomes for that space. So, work in progress. And I'm sure of those 13 filters, there'll be more to come, but it's just, again, making sure we understand what the needs, let them, be shared up through our global product team and then make sure that when they do land that we're looking for hosts who can then, add those on to their listings as well.
Lisa And it's so impressive to hear what's happening. I know there have been a few times where we've wanted to travel and have clicked. Maybe 1 or 2. It's gone from hundreds of places to stay, clicked on the wheelchair access is only one function, unfortunately on some of these places and suddenly drops to zero. So what? What's Airbnb doing to move past that or to improve things. Susan So that's the value of using AI. So, if you have 5 million hosts, you’re trying to educate them on what accessibility is or is not, is incredibly difficult, particularly across 200 and something countries and languages. It's a lot. Whereas if you can and if you had a human to do that manually, you could imagine that would also be, challenging because not all photos are taken equally. And so using this 3D, spatial, AI technology that actually will allow us then to proactively go and find and say, hey, it looks like your house is accessible, it looks like you've got a guest entrance that's wider than 81cm. It looks like you've got step free access to the guest entrance. Bedroom, bathroom, shower. Looks like your car space might be accessible.
In that case, why don't you add on these filters? And I think that then just allows someone who won't have considered, or it just won't have been front of mind to then go, oh, actually, all of that is true, right? I'll add those things on. And so that way it's using existing housing which already has these features, but someone who just isn't aware that their home is accessible and then can, can add it through. Lisa Yeah. And I suppose if, a host does want to make their place accessible, does that mean they have an option to speak to a consultant or somebody with that lived experience or is it all AI? Susan It's not something that we've got locally to do that. It's one of the reasons why we do have a team who all have a diverse range of, requirements so that they can understand. And to a point I said earlier, there are people on the site with limited vision. So it's how just our photo descriptors show up for someone who is viewing a site who's got limited description.
So there is a group who look at every product and say, for people like me, what do we need? And does this work? And so that's something that I think you build it in from the start rather than trying to retrofit. So, I think all of that helps us to understand lived experience, not going to be perfect. We're not going to cover off everything, but at least it's giving us a baseline to start from. And similar to starting with wheelchair accessible and then expanding to 13, it's then that journey of how you we're not going to get it all right. Perfectly. And we're going to learn, but we can iterate as we go along and work out, you know what makes the most sense in a market? What are people understanding? How are they searching? And then how can we make sure that they can find what they need? Lisa For sure. And it's great to hear that there is co-design as well, there are people with disabilities involved in the process from the start, so important. But we've heard a lot about professional Airbnb, Susan. But personally, what's been your favourite place to travel here and overseas?
Susan Oh, it's a tricky one. So, I’ve got a couple here. There is a farm stay in New South Wales, outside of Berry, and it's almost looks like a Scandinavian barn and it's got I describe it as like Goldilocks and the Three Little bears. It's got these three miniature beds in one room that my kids absolutely adored. And it has the treehouse. And it's just this, like, blissful escape. But it's only like ten minutes from Berry, so I can go and get the donut from the donut van, which is critically important. That's probably my favourite one in Australia because I just love easy driving distance from Sydney. The kids have a great time. It's just beautiful to disconnect but be close enough that you can get all the good, the good food that you want. Overseas, a couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough, actually, before I started at Airbnb to stay in an Airbnb in Santorini, with my family. And it was this cave house, and it had this pool that overlooked, Oia and the cliffs, and it was just one of those ones where you open up and it was just ten times better than what it looked like online. And it was, which already was great. And just such a different experience for the kids to be living in a cave that was one that's, definitely it is a great memory. It was beautiful.
Lisa Sounds incredible. So, everything you've done in the tourism space I ask as a non-disabled person, is there anything that's really stood out to you was, yes, we need to do something about that, either on the airlines or in hotels. Susan Hotels have been fairly good at providing accessible rooms and being generally accessible. So I think they've built for that, which has been good. I think they do. An awkward example of the planes one was just one that I'd worked for an airline for five years. I'd never even considered it. And so that for me is, you know, when we think about travel and the fact that everyone has the right to go and explore the world and experience new cultures and different cuisines, and that means that it has to be easy access to Uber, and the same priced Uber, to get to the airport. It has to be easy access through the airport. It has to be easy access on the flight. And that's the same for vision impaired and for hearing impaired as well. Yeah. And for the broader, and even neurodiverse. Yeah. How do you make sure everyone can have a good experience from, from the start of the trip to the end of the trip? And I think some parts of that journey, managing quite well and some are a little bit further behind. And, that's one way that I just think about quite a bit. And it's funny because any space like that and we have, what we call affinity groups at Airbnb, so it's a group that you either identify as or you are an ally of.
And obviously anyone at Airbnb is an ally of all the groups. So that would be pride, which is our Lgbtqia+ group or the Asians that it could be black, it could be Jewish, it could be women at wisdom Matters for people over 40. So there's a few of us in that, and there's disabled and one of the things that we did there was actually did a dining in the dark experience and your site is taken away. Just this simple thing of trying to work out where your glass is on the table or where your knife and fork are, or what food is on, what part of the plate. And so I think there's real value in some of those micro experiments of understanding, you know, if you put an aircraft designer in a wheelchair and said, right, go from the start of the airport onto the plane to the end of the journey, how that would show up in product, I think it would be pretty remarkable and would be pretty pretty quickly changed. So I just think people sometimes need to leave or get in and be able to have some of that experience to go. Actually, this is really frustrating and challenging and how can we make it better?
Lisa Yeah, 100, 100%. And we ask all of our guests what about them is unexpected because that's the end of the podcast. So what about either yourself or your work experience is unexpected? Susan A lot is unexpected. I think probably the most unexpected thing is, similar to you, I absolutely love travel. And I started life in a in a tiny town of 160 people. And so for me, I always just scratch my head about how I've managed to see so much of the world. And I didn't do my first overseas trip other than to New Zealand, where my mum is from, until I backpacked, and I was 21. And that was just the most eye-opening experienced for me. So sometimes I pinch myself and think, how did the kid from the country manage to get around and see so much of the world. And that was obviously the attraction to working for an airline, was someone pays you to go to these places. Lisa Susan, you are such a powerhouse and so well known in the travel and tourism industry. Is there any advice that you'd give to people out there who are looking to list with Airbnb, or perhaps just manage hotels in the tourism and space if they want to be accessible but aren't sure where to start? Susan It's a really good one. I think the reality is, is that everyone wants a place where everyone feels welcome and can join. And so there's the feel-good element of everyone should be encouraged to make their places accessible and to think about what that means in a broader sense of the word. But there's a commercial reality as well, which is on Airbnb, those 13 accessibility search filters have, you know, searches using those filters have grown 40% globally.
There is a massive demand for accommodation with accessibility features in this space. So if you're not doing it, you're actually limiting the amount of business that you can get. So, you know, I think it's about understanding what access you have for people with accessibility requirements today. Understand what small changes you could make that would make it more accessible. And then looking at what's the longer term structural changes. So if there's a refurbishment or rebuild, how you might consider building in some of those things at the start. And I think that will go a long way on just if everyone just chips away, I think we'll find that. Then we'll start moving to mass, mass adoption and it just makes sense financially to do that. Lisa Well said. And just, just chipping away doing little bits, little bits where you can I suppose something I hear occasionally is that there's a reluctance to make something accessible for fear that it's just going to look horrendous in a way. Rails and everything everywhere. But that's not the case. Can you speak to that at all?
Susan I think there's I mean, design is incredible these days. Right. And so I think there are plenty of incredibly designed places. And it's all about just going and finding someone who's developed or worked in this space before and, and even just getting on Google and having a look. And you can see how well integrated, when things are thoughtfully considered and put in how that, how well they can be done. So, I think that old adage of like it's an afterthought just added on afterwards sure doesn't look right. But I think when it's built into the design, it can be a seamless, flawless design. And if I even think about shower design today, any interior design going to do today will say nobody wants a lip going into the bathroom. You stub your toe on it. So, if you have a flush floor, well, that works for everyone and that's what design is moving towards now anyway. So I think there's other ways of positioning it. So it's not an afterthought. It's actually this is beautiful for everyone. And it has the added benefit of being accessible.
Lisa That's 100% right. Universal design it's not just good for me as a wheelchair user is good for everybody. Susan And we all know if you can put the bench seat in the shower, then I can sit down and shave my legs. So yeah, like good design. Lisa Susan, it has been an absolute pleasure having you here today, talking about Airbnb and the fantastic work that they're doing around the world and in Australia. So, thanks again for coming on the show.
Susan Thank you, Lisa, for having it was a pleasure to join you. Lisa Thanks for listening to that was unexpected. If you liked what you heard and you want to hear more, then hit subscribe wherever you get your fix. Have any questions or topics that you'd love for us to tackle? Great, email podcast@youngcare.com.au. We can't wait to hear from you! Check out our, show notes for transcripts, video recordings, and find out more about our guests plus the useful resources they share. You can reach us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at YoungcareOz. Let’s not forget an inclusive community is everyone's business. So let's keep working together to break down barriers and smash some stereotypes.
2024-10-08 11:36
