Sports Tourism Meeting January 8, 2025

Sports Tourism Meeting January 8, 2025

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Good morning, I guess it still is all  right I think we got everybody. I'm   just noting for what we were talking about.  All right, hello everybody I think this is,   I I know we've got a couple people pulled today  so I think this is kind of the group today.  

I guess technically for the record do we I  guess do we even have a quorum? One, two, three,   four out of nine is it nine of us? We need Kelly  I guess yeah Kelly's supposed to be here. Well we   can get because we don't get any official action  items so let's let's do that. We were hoping and   the snow has wreaked havoc on on everybody's  agendas here and I know a lot of people are   are dealing with that right now. So we were  hoping to introduce and have on the call today  

the interns but that has been delayed so we will  we plan on meeting them I think early next week,   is that right? Yeah. So hey Kelly. Hi. So we  will be meeting them next week but just to   give everybody a little background we, Bilal and  I have met with eight candidates I think it was.   And we we got it down to four and we selected  four interns right? Five, five interns that we   working with so yeah it's it's exciting and thanks  to Montgomery College and Steve and the team over   there for for really helping us out with that.  That was super. So it's just a matter of them  

getting back in with all the snow and then making  the announcements to the interns and they will   get started. Bilal is there anything else you  wanted to add? No actually I'm gonna send the   email to confirm with them today and then set up  a meeting for early next week like Monday to get   them going on the work. okay. And so we we will,  Bilal I know you've been working on kind of like   an outline of work and how to work with them on  it. Anything there you want to share just talk   through maybe? Yeah I mean it' be we can sort I  guess let me know how deep you want to get into it   but I think the first step is the sort of market  analysis which is going to be reviewing all the   documents that we have so I was going through some  of the parks documents some of the things that you   had sent I know Jeff uploaded some things and I  kind of wanted to create a priority reading list   where they're getting the useful information  that actually gives us context for this study   as opposed to just like everything under the sun  because they're not going to be able to understand   how it's relevant. And part of that is not just a  literature review but it's sort of like what data  

has been collected what analysis has been done  so we're now Reinventing the wheel um seeing okay   here's this you know they did uh a site selection  study in 2019 here we may want to update that or   not um I think there was some demographic data  in the pros plan do we want to update that those   kinds of things um I know you have a lot of data  which I have we maybe we can talk about what you   have and then what we should get them to analyze  um and that was the other thing was getting them   to pull demographic data Maybe to update and  then whatever you have to sort of figure out   what metric they should even be looking at and  the last piece at this point I think would be   maybe be to design a survey so they can go out and  then collect that data immediately and they have   that as well so I'm not entirely sure what that  would look like but I think we had talked about   them going to the soccer Plex uh at a minimum um  so what kind of information do we want to collect   how do we want to sort of stagger when they go so  that they're meeting different types of groups and   events and getting information and then where  else would we want to send them maybe over the   next month so that they're you know getting those  survey responses I don't know if people are really   doing outdoor sports right now Fe is there a  deadline for when you want to stop the I I I think   the surveys can probably be done a little bit  later okay um you maybe to more towards the spring   as as the soccer PL gets going again we I know  Matt's traveling today so hopefully that we can um   you know find out from him when they kind of get  going a little bit with some of the tournaments   all we need is one tournament over there I mean  you're going to get you're going to get enough   volume off a one tournaments to you know just to  just to start getting that information so I think   that that'll be good I guess we start designing  the survey to see what kind of information we want   and then figure out how much how many responses  we'd need because I yeah I agree with you I think   I think designing now and kind of being ready  almost in the back of my head I'm thinking he   probably kicks in probably in March yeah yeah I  would think it would be it I would say there's a   fundamental difference in the tournaments that  they do offer a big local and big travel right   so we should be aware that make sure you people  traveling in versus people for the day which come   from all over the metropolitan area and for that  matter momer County but they do both so that would   be a pretty significant difference in the kinds  of tournaments and I and I think we want to make   sure we hit both yeah right I mean I think because  even with the local one I think what you're going   to get especially if we do that questionnaire  right is how many other times like you know I   know I I remember as a parent we celebrated we had  local tournament right it's was like we're local   we got it you know and and and so and but you  know it was kind of like I think that that that   would be you know one audiences like and then the  other audiences is them coming from out of town   to understand how the accommodations our hotels  or where where they staying what do they need   and what's missing type of thing as compared to  other so I agree with you I think there's kind of   almost like two surveys there is not the call he  is not he's he's traveling to the coaching um uh   thing today or something he's on the plane I don't  want to volunte I don't want to volunteer him but   I'm wondering also if he can connect us with an  event organizer that would be willing to send a   survey post tournament to the uh Team coaches  right yes so go to the event organizer event   organizer has the ability because we do this with  the no before you go email is to see if they'd be   willing to help us distribute to the out of town  team coaches and then the coaches can forward it   to the amilies y can I add something quickly and  I love this also and I'm thinking um if in the   survey you can also include the family and and and  and the way I'm phrasing it is my daughter is the   one who's very athletic but I also have to drag  my son so when they go to meetups or whatever I'm   also looking for things for the my son to do not  just her so I don't know if there's a way to to   get that information in a like when you travel are  you bringing that whole family and we so are you   concerned about you know do you need to know which  park is nearby what kind of things are nearby   besides just restaurants it's just something that  I was thinking oh maybe just keep that in mind   that's all agre in in travel Sports the there's  kind of a tenant that uh 12-year-old girls travel   with their parents and the entire family and they  spend a lot of money everybody and 15-year-old   boys travel one parent 12 boys in a back of it  and they six in a in a hotel room together I   mean it's a pretty well-known development that's  why the 12-year-old girl tournament is often the   most lucrative in terms of a uh Sports tourism  perspective if you can really hit that that   sweet spot to the to the point natam just made  oh absolutely yeah that there's there's a lot   of veres in there right yeah yeah I remember those  trips on the boy or the girl side boy side I'm stun exactly sorry um um but yes so I think if  we if we and Kelly thanks for that because you   know the um I think you're right on there is is to  send some surveys afterwards and and see if we can   do that as well um I think that'd be great um so  so on the survey side I guess unless anybody has   any different thoughts is kind of the conclusion  there is let's start working on them yeah and   and creating them and then being ready to go by  March and then pulling that data in maybe March   and April maybe that's something you could discuss  at the next meeting have them draft something and   bring it to you that would be great yeah yeah turn  dra okay so as as we get started then then the   other piece you know as we talked about resources  and study you know is is we've we've been through   everything we've been through here over over the  first several months but now it's time to get this   thing rolling and trying to figure out and but  like you said is what is the information we want   them to review what is that and do we have all  the information we need I know we have a bunch   of stuff uploaded um I created a reports folder  and just started uploading some of the reports   that were uh I didn't even know where they were  uploaded previously or whatever I just kind of   put stuff but is I don't know I'm not saying  they're relevant so you know is there is there   anything um Kelly I know you gave your stuff in I  know Darren thank you for all the information you   submitted in and Jeff did a bunch um uh today he  submitted a bunch of stuff in is there any other   data that we're missing Tom do you know of any  that's that would be a good question once I'm   going extend to below some national stuff okay  friends what kind of sports are growing and not   growing age group demographics a number of those  things but they are National um and sports ETA   has some stuff that Matt and Terry would be able  to like that and they're really focus much more   on the tourist Sports ET Sports uh what is it  it's the travel it's the sports travel travel   Sports trade Association you got a bun of data but  between those two things and then I know BL you've   already got the Aspen Institute stuff that project  play that it's another kind of definitive National   discussion but I'm not sure what we have I know  for a fact we don't have as much because on my   other committee from a local need kind of a thing  from montomery County there's not much data there   so but yeah some of the National Data as such  as what sports are growing what age groups and   some data around you know trending that's easily  informative is that is that uh already like sort   of analyzed and put in a reporter is it yeah we  I'll get you we we put um my organization does the   that's the national Top Line every year and that's  the foundation for government for everybody and   then we do also do a team sports and others  reports so I'll get you a couple of those sure   and that there's a lot of data there and then when  needed if we ever get into the specific Sports we   also do buy specific Sports so we like 95 Sports  Cricket we're trying to figure out whether we're   going to do it or not whether the demand is  there okay 95 right now is how individual sports   tracking the participation tracking participation  Trend 10-year demographic against women and I mean   gender income other things stuff like that yeah  I think as granular as you can get would be great   that's partly just to help the students too to  sort of you know that kind of information that   be great there is a fundamental question in this  discussion in this committee though it's just kind   of like what's going on in sports and what's  going on in sports tourism yes you just got to   constantly go back because they are not the same  they influence both going the other way and then   looking forward whether it's Cricket or rugby or  whatever things there's a lot to be taken for that   but it is not direct meaning oh wow this for's  growing we should get you know pickle ball for   example is by far and you know I can't talk enough  about pickleball blah blah blah so is everything   else investing in pickleball and it might you  know we use that example all the time may not be   a good place for sports tourism because there's  so much competition and money flowing in that   relatively speaking do we want to compete where  everybody else is competing or do we want to   create Standalone that makes more sense for us so  those that's why I just caution when you look at   the numbers in terms of Trends yeah and and  and going along that line is is even is you   know something like pickle ball is there is there  even a a kind of a sports what I would call Sports   tourism mechanism there is it is it generating  enough revenue and enough to actually it is money   flowing into remarkably you're Revenue guy share  with some numbers like you got be kidding but   there's going to be I've bet my house on 10 years  from now massive winners and massive losers yeah   pick aall investment did I just build on something  Tom was saying yeah I I think um I think Tom was   kind of zeroing in on this question that's been  floating around in my head which is are do we have   Clarity to give to the interns and the people  developing the survey about what our research   question is um because making sure that we um like  a lot of the data that I provided this something   I know I brought up before but a lot of the data  data that the parks department provided is about   local county-based recreational facilities  and demands which I think is a different   it's answering a different question that I think  we're answering and I just want to make sure that   there's um a shared view in this group about what  the what the question we're asking the interns to   to answer is and what and therefore what questions  we'd be focusing on the survey about yeah I think   that's a great Point Darren and it's kind of kind  of this this part of the discussion and what I   wanted to get today is kind of get that Clarity  number one is is is that first part is is let's   make sure we have all the data that we have um I  know I saw if I could just on the data part and   then Darren let's come back to that question just  on the data part um I know Terry jump on I believe   I don't see him now up here but um I sort Terry  jump on and he and I had a conversation um just   before the the in December there a little bit  and I know he referenced you know some studies   that they have that they have done that they could  share and things of that nature Terry did you have   an opportunity to try and um try that upload file  and if that works for you and do you have anything   do you think you can upload that would be relevant  from a data standpoint I do have stuff that I   could update from a data standpoint um I have  not honestly tried um been sidetracked here in   the last month or so but um I will make sure it's  top of um priority to to get over um B at minimum   um here in the next week that'd be great and what  what kind of information Terry you know we talked   a little bit about it I think you have some  studies that are that were kind of relevant in   the area that you guys have done as well as some  maybe even some more granular data yeah we have um   you know studies that we've done in the  marketplace on you know various projects   and Scopes we've also done some um some studies  that have done by uh second and third parties   on various um opportunities within the region  and then also some of the studies that have   been done on a national level that to show  the global impact of of the industry and the like so B with with that information from Tom and  Terry getting added into this do you think we is   there anything else that we're missing or anybody  else in the room think that we're missing from a   data standpoint that we can kind of we make sure  that Matt uploads or provides lost business data   oh yeah yeah so that we know what he's not able  to take and if Parks has any of that we want to   see what the demand is that we're unable to  accommodate yeah which I gave you conference   center yes um data um just to follow up on  this though to Darren's point as well um you   know as I was thinking about how do I Orient these  students to all the information and what they need   to gather I was like you know you're going to do  a lot of reading you're going to do a lot of data   analysis but as you crunch these numbers and do  that reading think about three questions the whole   time and those questions are what kind of facility  should we build where could it go how much would   it cost those are basically where we're going and  obviously there's some assumptions in there um I   think we have we're specifically looking at a  sports tourism facility but the reason I made   it sort of a vager question like that what kind  of facility should we build is so that when they   read documents from Parks they get a sense of  okay this author has this perspective and they   think we should build a a public facility um when  we read some of the consultant studies clearly   there is a belief that there it's written with  the intention of getting a private facility built   so they understand that sort of how it's written  and how to sort of manage the information they're   getting not just take it as sort of an objective  fact but sort of account for the source that it's   coming from and then based on all that evidence  sort of sift through and make the case for what   we should build and obviously we'll sort of prime  them that we're look the point point of this is   to look for a a tourism facility primarily but  you know we're going to get data from the public   side there's a lot of analysis there and there's  a lot of Demand on the public side so we're going   to have to account for that and manage that a  little bit but my point is the point I'm making   is they're going to look at a lot of different  things from a lot of different perspectives and to   keep them grounded to this study I was thinking of  those three draft questions what kind of yeah what   kind of facility should we build where could it  go how much would it cost and some of this comes   from the pros plan Darren too because I think  you do get into some of this too where you're   talking about hey if we're looking at sites we  should look at publicly owned sites or you know   sites that are conveyed by the private entities  you kind of go through some of that stuff in   the pros plan um and again that's sort of like  this is what parks believes are the priorities   for where facility should go and then you know if  there's studies from the state that have sort of   like says something to the contrary or makes  a different point um then they're accounting   for that and then they're sort of you know seeing  all the different answers to these questions and   then through that we'll analyze and talk through  you know what yeah yeah yeah and I and I think   Darren's question goes a little bit further but I  see Adrian has her hand up and and if you go ahead   yeah I just wanted to say I'll uh I think I have a  digital propery of the P for Clarksburg and which   was supposed to be a very large scale uh Regional  facility with like you know like state of-the-art   track and field and some of those other features  um back when um when we did that study it's dated   now but I'll see if I can find it and share that  and you know I've been meaning to go on the uh   National recreation parks association website  um also and I I've recently made a new contact   whether we need to reach out or not with um uh  associate professor at uh George Mason who's   coming from Penn State who's with their school  of sport Recreation and tourism management who   specializes in research so if we have a if we  come down to like wanting to be able to guide our   students and need a little bit um more clarity on  the research question maybe we can bounce it off   of her just the thought but anyway um I thought i'  that out there sorry who was that I just want her   name Ellen Rogers I Just met um I'm serving on  a research committee uh with her for um Academy   of Park and Recreation Administration and so um I  you know I feel comfortable reaching out to her if needed great that might be a great great contact  a great resource thank you you're welcome that's   awesome so going back to the questions  though and for the for the um continuing   that conversation as far as interns and things  of that nature um you know what what type of   should we build again I understand what you're  saying is they're getting a lot of information   from different resources but how do we keep  them grounded to being focused and that's   what Darren was kind of raising there too  as well is how do we keep them focused to   to Really developing a sports tourism related  facility with a secondary focus of I guess on   off off times being able to handle different  community events right but the primary focus   of what we've been charged with is how do  we keep them focused on Sports tourism so   is there is there a better way to phrase that  first question and and to them to keep them   grounded or or is it just in the instruction I'm  kind of throwing it out for thought there yeah I   you could have refined the question I I did figure  I mean this is like super basic which is why I'm   not sharing my screen with this stuff yet but  it was kind of be like here are the questions   that you'll think about but here are some of the  instructions that you have right so the question   of what kind of facility isn't just private  public it's also you know what type of sport is it   primarily accommodating or is it multiple sports  or facilities and some of that will just I think   um you know come from like look at the DAT look  at the data for which sports are driving Sports   tourism that's also one answer to this question  right it's not just a public private so it's sort   of open-ended that way I think we definitely tell  them like the whole reason that we're here is to   sort of create an economic development use and  so that's your sort of orienting principle but   um you're getting a lot of different information  so you kind of have to sift through all that I I   think that that you just said probably helps them  but also us to put that into words yeah underlying   principle is this to create an economic and then  upon what would you measure success progress and   success is it number of people is it number is  it amount of money returned is it overall new   economic investment is it economic profitability  or whatever there's a variety of things but I do   think we're struggling because we're kind of  dancing around and if we're gonna ask anybody   whether it's interns or a paid consultant you  got are we in this to create a sports tourism   outcome that has an Roi against an investment if  that's the thing then we should put it out and be   comfortable with it well do you have some ideas  you I would also just as one of the questions to   keep them um grounded uh is look for Trends  in the data like sports Trends lost business   trends like just looking for Trends as they read  through everything are you going to share this is   terrible I know it's old the 2007 study that was  done yeah let me see if I still have that but I I   you you sent it to me actually I have from you  so yeah that was an actual Fe ility study that   was done by Economic Development with a partner  Harry I don't know if you were here then do do   you remember the study that was done for the Shady  growth site I do remember the study um but I came   on right after it okay I think I think it would  be a good read sure why not well yeah it's it's   the most up toate information we have basically  on Montgomery County specifically right I mean   that's the most up to-date information there right  Shady Grove site I believe was in the recreation   master plan as well so I don't know if there's a  hard copy of a file I could dig up but might take   some time okay we have it yeah one piece on it I  don't know if there's a literature review because   it's one of those things that people don't to  but but there is a wealth of of reality and   Terry knows it extremely well about how many Eon  Sports tourism projects have been attempted not   how many but all the variety of and some have been  successful and some have been like there's just   that's a starting point of fundamental value yeah  because you do see especially in a lot of these   places they on the second or third time around the  first level of investors lost everything and then   somebody came in and bought them and then they  did it right or did it better or they came to   terms with it I don't know where that is Terry and  his team and and and all those people at sports ET   might it's a it's a little bit more complicated  because people don't like to talk about how   people lost everything but there's there's huge  amount of value in knowing and understanding when   you talk to the consultants and you talk to the  banks and talk to the private investors they're   looking at it very much that way right and there  are successes and failures all over the place well   and along thats good reads for them yeah and along  that that that line of of of thinking there to is   is there anything and I don't know Terry if you  have anything on this or either of these but you   know success ful models right the base models I  know when I talked to um Kevin Plank's team you   know they were talking about they were looking  at building it and and they had started to do   some research on the minimum number of fields  the minimum number of sizes of facilities that   would be successful and things of that nature and  you know is there is there any data like that I   think it kind of goes along you know hey we built  this it lost right you know I mean I think there's   there's that that equation but also in finding out  these losses we found out that this is kind of the   the The Sweet Spot for size or or minimum size  or things of that nature to be successful is   there any data like that Terry on either one  of those wow uh that's a great question um I   know that it's obviously just like you just need  to describe there's been a lot of conversations   in around it um and I would have to ask a  couple uh key folks within our our study   group as well as um some people at sports ETA  if that stuff actually exists in some type of   concrete form or is it just antidotal right it  it definitely exists when you talk as some of us   have done yeah the Consultants who are selling  it or getting in front of a uh doing a council   presentation whatever Council that may be they  always talk about well this place worked because   of this and this place didn't and templates Etc  how much it's a sales job and how much it's a   scientific and as Terry said you know an for the  purpose I'm not sure right I'm hesitant to to to   to buy but I do know you look around Lake Lako  which is a fabulous place I mean it's a massive   place in Georgia it looked on paper like it was  gonna they went out of business once now they're   booming right what's the difference what happened  you know they they learned or they didn't and   there's 10 of those places all those are really  big facilities that people have invested a lot   of money but when you invest millions in you lose  and then somebody else comes in invests millions   somebody's putting some effort into making it  better the second time we're around yeah so   but how do we bring this back to how do we bring  this back to again what do we ask in the interns   and how are we keeping interns focused and are we  Tom you raised the question are are we comfortable   with saying hey we're we're looking to figure out  a facility that is going to bring economic return   on that facility are we comfortable with saying  that and as the primary focus I think was kind   of question you were throwing out there and and  where are we um we kind of throw that out to the   team any other thoughts on that or or or how do we  get that questioning back to the to the interns to   keep them focused in that right direction yeah I  mean I think if you guys want to maybe lob some   guiding principles here that we can make sure to  I can make sure to include with them I I again   those questions were not set in stone or even  how to frame this for them but I'm just trying   to think of a way to be super simple um that they  can understand um and I could I'm almost thinking   like maybe giving them some answers to those  questions what kind of facilities should we build   well we want it to be sort of oriented towards  tourism okay so what else does what else do you   can you find how else would you refine the answer  to this based on what you're reading and the data   that we're that we're getting where could it go  well um you know what what are the trade-offs   between doing it on a publicly owned site versus  a privately owned site you know um how you know   and then what are the restrictions in ter terms  of size and then sort of like refining that but   if there are specific things that you'd want to  I'm I'm sort of I'm just thinking out loud no I   I think and that's is perfect this what what what  I trying to get every us to do Al together is kind   of think out loud here but I like when you start  saying that to me it's like well I look at us as   as a task force right and and when we talk about  tourism you know we were we were we were charged   to hospitality you know bringing people in  so so so it could be a successful facility   but not attract anybody from the outside right so  we need a successful facility that is bringing in   Hospitality it's bringing in people and outside  and there's a mix of outside you know local and   and outside events um in addition to that we also  have a a a Workforce um part of our study and so   so what what how do we build that and how do we  make that as as part of a success of of you know   economic impact and and and a type of facility so  what is as we look at this and as we give them and   I I like what you're saying is like here's the  priority you know it's got to be you know it's   got to be an economic impact for us and and how  do we measure that economic impact and giving   them some guidance on that and and I don't have  the answer I'm again thinking out loud as well is   the guidance from the council that created did  the council created this task force were they   clear on like it's it's it's about an economic  return that's the whole yeah I think that's the   primary I think I think just having something  that we all have like right in front of us in   front of them like for example I I may be I feel  a little bit out of touch so I'm just going to say   it but I might embarrass myself we sort of touch  on we want to make a big facility or we don't it's   kind of a basic question and and you can't really  ask interns to answer it no you got to tell them   we are thinking it would be a big facility or  we're not well you can do Sports tourism with   existing facilities or with you know tournaments  or then they use schools there's a million you can   do but it feels like there is a predisposition  towards you know the the track and field thing   Clarksburg thing we talked about Shady long long  time ago uh the place for for college graduations   that we keep hearing about is that sort because  if it's a starting point are we going to tell   them that because they're wasting time if if we're  really kind of think but I have no idea if that is   what we're thinking yeah is the research question  interns is there market demand for a large scale   facility like is that is that the question they're  answering because I think that implies that we   want it but we're but we're testing the market  now I I I have to tell you I wouldn't know how   to answer that question um and but but is I think  that's the question we're asking right is there a   demand for and if so heard that question what what  flavor yeah I agree with that question abely and   to be H I think the goal here by the way is not  for them necessarily to answer the question but   to bring as much information for you to answer the  question is the yeah so but there yeah hopefully   they'll be really rigorous answering that can  you just repeat that again Darren I just want   to capture exactly how you said it is there  market demand for a large scale Sports tourism   facility and if so what would the um what we call  program of requirements what what sports would it accomodate or activities because it's not just  multiuse like graduations that's you know that's   one of the things graduation space yeah the way  it actually reads in the resolution is the task   force will conduct a facility needs assessment  which will include assessing the viability of   a multi-use facility that can increase Sports  capacity but also potentially serve as a facility   for events like high school graduations it  is well there you go but no Darren I think   you I think you kind of break that down into that  question is is is identifying is there the first   question based on that is there the or need for  a multi-use facility is this thing gonna would   this thing work yeah any in any configuration and  if so there's General demand what configuration   yeah i' I'd really highlight that's a terrific  question and keep it separate from then is there a   business use model that makes sense because the  first thing is is there a demand enough to make   it then you gota figure out okay well how do you  make it work how does it cost AG ET because but   if there's no demand in the first place you're  probably wasting our time and that's a big enough   qu you have to bring them together but you don't  have to bring them together at the first at the   can you also can you also include also Le like the  location is important getting people's feedback   like in my head I'm still with White Flint on  North ofo whatever you're going to call it as a   place for a multi-use facility because it's near  Transit but I wonder that's just me I wonder how   people feel because it's a big difference if  we're talking about northda versus somewhere   in AB County so that question needs to be answered  yeah I can they can they what what data would we   need for the interns to try and pull that yeah I  think um again it's not necessarily Reinventing   the wheel because I know Darren um you had done  some high Lev GIS analysis right that looked at   sort of sites for the Cricut Stadium which in  general I think that's a methodology we could   potentially repurpose and work with your team to  maybe do that again or more rigorously or with   slightly different parameters um but it would  basically be that right like uh you know what   are sites that are not near arterials for example  that are large enough um you know do you have to   do demolition to to accommodate is there a green  field site um you know what are yeah what are the   different ways to access it um is it multimodal  or only by car um those are the kinds of basic   practical factors that can go into a GIS analysis  and then you sort of limit sites that way um and   yeah we can work with some GIS experts at parks  if Darren is willing to lend us yeah I I I think   that's the right so so same thing it's kind of  identify the sites first you know like NYY said   is is then you go into okay well then we need  to talk to people about what is okay here's the   sites then what where is it where where where is  the right location based on what people feel and   need and and you know everything else of that  nature but first thing is let's get the layout   of the sites yeah so Darren you're you're in on  that well I so as as Bal was was alluding to we   did a we did a site selection analysis for a large  scale cricket stadium and the the short version of   our analysis was we don't and in Parks we don't  have um a suitable site for because you think   about the building itself the parking and all  the things that go along with it that the parks   department does doesn't have a suitable start for  for the kind of facility we're talking about so I   would actually suggest below that this would end  up being more of a planning department analysis   yeah um because they would then be looking at  all of the you know whatever sort of brownfields   or whatever you know whatever sort of you know  declining malls we have or whatever whatever the   potential candidate sites might be um that are  well beyond the scope of the parks department I   think it has to more than just Parks well yeah  I was I wasn't thinking we'd only look at Park   but more just using GIS yeah we could just use  planner planning GIS as well to yeah because it   would definitely happen include privately on sites  I can talk to Jason and and see if they can get   this done if that's that shouldn't be a problem  I don't think Jason is the director of planning   you know there used to be a really good guy over  in the planning department who would have jumped   at this opportunity but I think you moved to  the council yeah oh actually I'm not good at GIS don't do that um but I can think of some  people in the planning department that we   should recruit if we're you know you know  Natalie maybe if we can call out specific   individuals that would be you know so yeah I  so so so okay so so sounds like we're kind of   getting this bigger scope of what is the demand  on the type of facility what are the potential   locations and yeah but I think site selection has  to come way later not way later but later like   what what it it do we want it like is it viable  what would it be then you can start saying well   has to have transportation access and and all the  things that that flow from that I I agree with you   Darren I I think what I'm looking at is if we if  we at least start assembling the inventory of what   is available then based on how we go through  the study we'll start you know randomly okay   well that's not big enough that's not and and  you you can start you can start kind of putting   everything together because basically the way  this is going to flow and bl you you referenced   it earlier is you know as much as we like the  the interns aren't going to answer the question   right so so the goal here is is that they're  going to be providing us enough information for   this task force to have these conversations to  then direct the next piece and and where are we   going with it and and ultimately getting to the  end right that's so I just want like threading   the needle with like here's all the facilities we  could potentially build here's all the sites how   do we get you know some get something that fits  the sites that we have and the demand that we   have can we even do that um and so they'll sort of  get all that information um one of the challenges   in this endeavor these kinds of Endeavors always  is the process both of Po politics fundraising is   that it takes so long that by the time you get it  that's three four years back when the information   that the trend you were looking at so we just have  to acknowledge that that that is a very serious   thing that yes if you could identify all this  information and then do it that would be one thing   but if you it takes three four you know whatever  it takes a long time to get these things up and   running I think having it be multi-use helps that  factor if it's multiuse it helps that factor can   we just ask can I ask about the the graduation  thing because I hear that all the time in in   the county um how important is that to us because  if it is it becomes a it's a you know that means   something well yeah because I think this project  I mean the sports tourism thing is it or is it not   something that it's it's like we all would love  to have it but if it's real then you should be   guiding us that's an indoor facility that's  an X number of people it changes everything   we shouldn't even waste our time on stuff if that  is important and part of the understanding that   would be a out not a but the one of the  outcomes that people are expecting well   yeah I'm sorry Matt's not here but part of the  challenge Matt has for spectator sports indoor is   there's no bleacher seating yeah and so we need to  think about that too um not just graduations but   events that we can't host now because he doesn't  have that spectator seating and we're Limited   in using College you know Montgomery College and  other facilities so yeah High School graduations   but um large conferences and trade shows like  that's what even even in the county now one of   the best sports invest well not one of the best  but a super cool new thing was is the Rack in in   The Aquatic thing silver Sprint no parking well  there's some parking people complain about no   no um seating so MLK and MLK which has got very  limited seating MLK par whatever that is called   in in White Oak is probably the best one of the  best places for swimming events uh or German Town   also but there's a huge amount of swimming in this  in this area and people sit and watch it hockey   Rockville the same thing yeah that place is packed  all the time and the amount of seating they have   limits it to always going to just be kind of local  and this and that so the point is that to you're   I'm I'm thinking we just invested and I'm all  forward to what they did in Silver Spring with the   they call it the rack I guess swack is that swack  well it's we changed the name it was originally   scr you'll hear all the staff call it scra because  we um it was originally going to be South County   and then they changed it to name changed the name  to Silver Spring so now it's like Shrek but Shrek   but well we still refer to it as scrap but but  Tom to your point I will say this the graduation   thing comes up over and over and over and multiple  levels of conversations now I uploaded the P for   Clarksburg into the file and you'll see that it's  even mentioned their facility large enough to host   graduations and those types of events but to Point  you're right Tom we've got some of the biggest   swimming in the entire area and and especially for  diving actually we're people come from Virginia   quite often to dive with us because we're one of  the few that have the 10 meter platform um but uh   I'll have to I think we have a big meat coming  up for metros I'll have to definitely put that   out there there may be some things that we as a  group want to um want to visit and tour um but   um yeah so I would say it's really important to  several council members from my perspective and   what I hear and past documents that an indoor  facility that can host graduations uh I myself   graduated at DAR Constitution Hall and that's  where a lot of the county graduations are being   held so um that is an important aspect I'm myself  graduated from Shady Grove theater in the round   for those of you nobody here knows what that is  but where Michael Jackson also appeared by the   way but that was a different yeah and that is  now Housing Development so but but I think you   raised a great question and and you know that it's  it's it is in the in the resolution I mean there   there's no question but when you think about  that and you think about graduations right we   all immediately at least in my head I go to an  indoor facility right that's that's what we're   asking for as an indoor facility whereas you could  talk about Sports tourism and I think is some of   the like more recent successful facilities are  like out in Delaware where it's just Fields it's   just straight out fields and so to your point Tom  I guess the question you're kind of asking is do   we give guidance and if that is that important  we're going to have an indoor component to this   and it's got to be of that size and if you talk  about an indoor component that that's that size   that might be the only facility that this is and  is that is that viable is that a separate question   you know to determine is that viable from a sports  tourism standpoint to webuild the facility how   many seats do we need for a graduation I don't  even know I know I know that study back in 07 was   what like seven to eight 7 to ,000 yeah people or  something like that nature was that that much was   it that much Natalie council member you know about  anybody know about I think around I think we need   to ask mcps to be honest I don't want to guess  I know do you look at dar it's the one that most   people have done and then you look at Maryland and  they people complain that they're not enough seats   for grandparents at D so it's something in between  those which is about 7,000 ,000 seats yeah because   if you think about it if you talk about 2000 kids  in in a graduating class plus the parents plus the   yeah siblings plus yeah I mean you're talking  it wouldn't be 2000 yeah yeah I was just gonna   say I think something that might be helpful going  back to you know the reference the um the cricket   stadium analysis that we did we we sort of as we  were going we were trying to figure out like all   right what are we what are we looking for here  and we we sort of looked at um the buoy Bay sock   Stadium as sort of like if we pick that up and put  that somewhere in in Montgomery County what would   we have that would would would accommodate it and  it occurs to me that it might be a good intern   project to just find sort of case studies like  what would be the analogous facility somewhere   in the East Coast is there one that incorporated  a like a graduation capacity kind of um facility   with a sport facility and was successful and  I think the an if they were able to say in   Delaware or in Pennsylvania or in South Carolina  the the so and so facility is kind of what we're   talking about here and here are some problems that  they encountered or it they just can't they just   there's not an open day because it's so popular  um being armed with an example like that I think   would help us with subsequent steps like site  selection so um and then it might then and then if   the answer is people have tried and they've only  failed like or you got to pick your lane and you   got to pick what you want to do well that would  be that would be useful information too that seems   like a question that um some hardcore Googling and  and and maybe a picking up the phone and calling a   few um facilities could could be um bitten off and  chewed by the interns and Darren to your point I   think level of service in an in a regional area  so for example you know stadium in Buie stadium   in Frederick Stadium over H shorebird right on the  Eastern Shore so what type of what's the level of   service for a facility that what is the need and  then what when is the that market saturated and   so that may drive the type of facility we select  to to build and obviously sports that are trending   Cricket you know other things that may determine  whether it's indoor outdoor too what is one of the   things that they could look at is simply what's in  the region already in terms of scale you know you   got all of the stadiums you got Showplace Arena  you got these different things and maybe that   could be part of it but to following that point  one of the bigger uh Sports tourism events in the   DMV I don't know how big it is relative to other  things but it's pretty big nationally is in the   Washington Convention Center the volleyball  tournament that they do there so there's a   Convention Center and they they Jam that thing  that is a successful uh Sports tourism deal and   they use a facility that no one ever thought was  going to be used for volleyball and and literally   jam it in from 5year old teams to 10 18y old teams  boys and girls at this anyway the point is that   that was an indication of taking starting one with  the with the with the indoor place and then saying   we've got a facility let's use it in many more you  know let's fill it up two or three times and now   it's a national event that people come to I mean  they put it on their agenda every year so so going   back to the question to the inters and and that  question that Darren came up with is is trying to   develop the demand I'm just trying to say will we  get enough information from that to then be able   to turn around and say well there's a demand here  for indoor facility a demand here for an outdoor   facility there's are we're going to be able to  determine that because along this conversation   does that second piece then get us into answering  this question right like if the demand comes back   that we need to build the real demand is building  an open field complex right and versus something   kind of like a a soccer Plex with a a kind of  indoor part and then fields around around it type   of facility um you know if that demand comes back  that that one way do we bring this discussion and   as part of that conversation well we understand  that demand's a little bit higher but if you mix   graduations and other uses involved with this  thing let's pivot that way because that's a   priority of ours or so so I guess the question is  do we feel like that first question we're asking   the interns to kind of pull all this data to bring  to us is is that I I still think that's the right   question and then this becomes a secondary piece  to that Tom I guess I'm going back to your comment   earlier versus do we need to answer that first  and tell them no we want to make sure we have a   graduation piece to it I'm I'm thinking in my head  based on this conversation I'm thinking that's   second let them pull the data into what's needed  identify the highest need first and then and again   I'm throwing that out there as a question as I'm  thinking through this to be honest I think more   from a Work Management perspective I think because  we have five interns they're not all going to do   the same thing so I actually think doing this  simultaneously would help right having some   interns work on the demand piece other people get  organized on the sort of site analysis and then we   can come back the interns can come back and sort  of be like here's what we found you know how does   how do these two things relate to each other okay  there's only so many sites and they're all 30,000   square feet or less um all all the demand is  only for Cricket okay then we have a mismatch   but it's more likely that there's a variety of  things that they'll find from the demand side   um and then maybe they can look you know for some  of those case studies okay what has people what   have people built that's also part of the that  analysis so like okay what do we need but also   what other things that people built what do those  things look like somebody else is just identifying   sites and then there's sort of a triangulation of  all those factors that they can attempt or sort of   communicate to you all then you can kind of help  thread that needle um but I do think that they'll   have to do that thing all that work independently  because it's going to take us some time to   abely we can't get all five to do one task at once  anyway so I think we'll probably just split them   up think splitting them by topics is a good idea  so somebody working on the surveys yeah that'll   be part of the demand analysis right somebody in  that team can maybe work on the survey piece yeah   and others doing the research yeah other people  are going through some of the literature and the   data some other people are looking at case studies  um and then we sort of have maybe more of the gis   people who are maybe looking at working with  some of the agencies and and getting them to   make these maps and maybe they're learning how  to do that a little bit I think it's discreet on   that graduation thing I assume Montgomery County  Public Schools has it how much money you spend   every year how many kids I there's got to be  a set of data other people have spent money it   puts it right on the table in front of us because  then you say okay well if we're sending x amount   of money out of the county every year yeah right  out of the box that's an important piece of inform   information serving so many kids and then they  should just on that alone the issues of customer   satisfaction with regard to parking with regard  to distance to number of people so they can bring   their family you can make a pretty good that's  in and of itself I assume that somebody's already   done all that work yeah so some find that I can  I can easily I have a meeting with t Dr Taylor   next week I can ask two things I can ask for the  amount of money they spent last year on graduation   facilities right and then the second question that  we talked about earlier was the question on um   something else how many people how many people  attend graduations and if they have to request   some families not to bring like some sometimes  they say 10 family members per kid or whatever   um what's the situation there yeah well you know  Latina you know I had to bring my grandma I had   to bring my cousins I had to bring everybody but  U so I Council if you have that information that   we can um yeah I'll and send it to you guys we  can um but then we can make an economic impact   assumption from that data by number of bodies Matt  and I can probably say if there's this many people   going into DC and um there's this many people  staying overnight and there's this many people   eating out you can probably pretty quickly come  up with an assumption on how much money leaves the   county that we would bring back which be part  of this pot on the table absolutely okay I'll   I'll as soon as I get it I'll send it to you guys  okay it almost sounds like maybe we'll have we can   split the five up I mean I think it only take one  person to maybe coordinate with planning and do   the gis two people look into literature and data  on demand and then two people getting into case   studies one maybe focusing more on what different  types of facilities look like and somebody getting   into the costs and operations and then so doing  maybe get some of the metrics on our graduation   and we'll have some specific questions in there  but maybe thinking about maybe bringing them up   into three getting all that going and then yeah  I think we've got to keep them focused right it's   is you know look like you and I talked about the  reality is they're college students so they have   classes to go to first year it's a mix it's a mix  but it's you know it's it's they're managing that   right you know what I mean and so yeah they're  a lot of a lot of guidance so we the goal should   be for them to access what somebody else has  done that's what they're good at not doing it   themselves no a very doable assignment may also  be having one of the students simply go look up   the calendars of all the facilities in our region  so for example can they get access as it published   so what what what were all the events at sports  and learning what were all the events at Buie Bay   socks what were all the events at maybe University  of Maryland they may be able to access a lot of   information just from what has been published on  people's calendars um and what types of events are   they hosting and so that would be very interesting  data to see do you have some of that Kelly it's   not it's not too terribly hard to find okay we  might have a platform that can do that for us I'll   ask we have a we use a prospecting tool called  Nolan okay I'll see if the if that platform can   can accumulate that data okay that'd be awesome  yeah we can still look into it yeah if not yeah   it's all pretty much public information it's just  grun workk and a lot of research yes so it might   be easier if the platform does that yeah the last  thing that we could have them do which would be   interesting is if we can get them a set of um  interview questions they could call some of the   um the facility managers executive directors and  and try to schedule an interview that's a great   assignment for a college student and interview  um you know the folks that run the facility if   we can help them design a set of of questions um  something we could consider great idea well that   kind of goes back into the surve that kind of goes  back into the survey aspect it's it's a different   part it's actually do a question Q&A with the  facility managers and just you know I yeah Adrian   I think that's great that's a great idea to that  point um somebody mentioned it earlier do we want   to do a field trip at all like do we want to go  see that was it St whatever St James in Virginia   that was me um I I proposed that and and I I just  told Tommy I need to schedule that day so once we   have a date I'll let you know guys uh so you can  join in and we can have the entrance SC if they   want to as well so San James scen Springfield yeah  be careful of venue Envy when you go to that place   and oh man what I like that we have something like  that find out if they make money they weren't to   your point when they first open they were having  a hard hard time very hard that is the historical   evidence that those kind of places you know they  do have a they have a facility also in Bethesda   it's very tiny but they do have a connection in  Bethesda so I'll um I want to get a tour from them   so once we have the date we'll share with you guys  but I hope it happens before the end of February   I I had I had met the uh manager over there that  but I don't know if he's still there um I met him   a couple years ago um who

2025-01-20 01:22

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