Saving Wildlife Tourism & Fashion Reimagined -Tricia Croasdell Global CEO World Animal Protection II
Well, when you think about the involvement that you just mentioned, what do you see as key steps and collaborations needed to end wildlife farming worldwide? So, as an organization, next year World Animal Protection will be 75 years old. And it's been in many guises, some people might know it as WSPA, the World Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, before we became World Animal Protection. What we've always done is work with [00:29:00] partners. And that's part of the success. We cannot do this alone. Our heritage is around building partnerships. It's
about building coalitions and really focusing on where the kind of lasting systemic changes. So we're always looking to work with others who share our values, who want to raise the profile of animal welfare. And really, our initiatives are like a lot of organizations would expect us to be, a lot of your listeners would expect to be, it's about evidence-based research, it's about getting the public to mobilize on our behalf, and then it's about using our leadership with stakeholders to really engage and be that voice for animals. We often say that inside the
organization, 'being the voice', but it's really important that we give those voice. Part of our work is around that public mobilization piece, and I think that's where I think your listeners can be so important and so vital for us. We have engaged millions of individuals [00:30:00] around the world -- governments, organizations, corporations -- all to champion animal welfare. And as an
organization, we've got offices also around the world. We're located in China. We're located in Brazil. We've got quite a number in North America and Europe, as well as Africa and Australia. But there's still so much to do. There's never -- even coming up to our 75th anniversary, there's still so much to do. And we really Look at how we leverage our partnerships and
our support to target governments, in particular governments, because particularly in this area of wildlife farming, which is so poorly regulated, there's so much pressure on the consumer, as we've just discussed, to make the right choices. But actually, you could take it a step backwards and, by advocating for better legislation, and you get governments to introduce the regulations that the private sector follows, and you could actually see a phase out of wildlife farming. And in phasing that out, [00:31:00] equally important to support the kind of alternative livelihoods for those communities that do wildlife farm. And so, yeah, that's really where our kind of heart is at, is in those partnerships, in those kind of collaborations so that we can be an elevated voice, a voice of millions of people rather than just, just a voice on our own. I think it's so much more powerful when people come together to request, fight, challenge for collective change, particularly in this space where you're doing something where there isn't a voice. If we humans don't raise the cry, it's not going to happen. So that's really where at the heart of
our organization lies. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I want to circle back on one thing that you mentioned, in case there are people listening that are thinking about the fact that there are jobs behind these spaces, that these are industries that are employing people. And what I'm hearing you say is that as you [00:32:00] collaborated, particularly with governments, working through plans for transition of roles for those who would be working in wildlife farming and would therefore need a shift in roles -- that would need their own livelihoods addressed as part of those strategies -- is part of the comprehensive work that you're doing and is part of the benefit of collaborating with governments directly. Is that a fair summary? Yes. And I think it's also to make sure that governments have that feeling of pressure, that it is also theirs to find a solution. Because I think, particularly in the kind of non-governmental world or in the charity world, we can feel like we need to find all of the solutions. And actually what we need
to do is work with governments and work with regulators so that the solutions are theirs. Yeah, I can give you an example. We're working with the Rajasthani government at the moment on a place called Amer Fort, which is where there's around 80 elephants that [00:33:00] are kept in quite horrific conditions and that they are -- tourists go and ride these elephants. Now, we could jump in and say, we're going to do this, this, this, and this, but actually part of being a responsible organization that wants systemic change is to make sure that those solutions come from within locally, and that those solutions are also sustained by government intervention, and that the government feel that there is a responsibility on them to find the exit strategy for the owners of those elephants, who are often individuals who simply own the elephant, and they make money through riding it. We're an animal welfare charity. We are not an alternative livelihoods charity, but we are there to support people as they transition away from these industries, but we support them in terms of the pressure that we put on governments to find the alternatives. And there are always alternatives, but it's so easy sometimes to just [00:34:00] to try and find the ultimate solution that wraps it all up today. Whereas actually,
when you're looking at systemic change, it takes a long time, but it's trying to stop more elephants from entering this arena and having a plan for them to exit. Absolutely. And an ongoing, living plan, right? That you're continually evaluating progress and evolving and adapting as needed. Yeah. And that you don't have that cycle where people step out of the industry and then step back in somewhere else. So it's making sure that there is a long-term plan, particularly around
some of these kind of key areas that we're working in. Makes perfect sense. Thank you. Before we continue, I just want to make sure if there are any other success efforts that you wanted to highlight. These are incredibly inspiring examples, including tourism and fashion. And there were a number of different, incredibly inspiring examples in the reports in terms of the ongoing work and in terms of partnering with governments at various [00:35:00] levels. Are there any other examples that you hold dear when you look at the successes to date? So many, so many. But yeah,
let me give you, I've got a couple of more if you'll indulge me. I think we spoke about elephants in India, but actually we've also been working with the Thai government around a draft elephant protection bill and ourselves, along with other NGOs, have offered a kind of version of the bill to the Thai government that would bring in a breeding ban for elephants for commercial and entertainment purposes. As I alluded to earlier, the kind of brutal training practices that get them to perform in such ways. In May this year, we handed in a petition with over 172,
000 signatures from 26 countries demanding the end to the exploitation of elephants in Thailand. We need that breeding ban in place because you have got [00:36:00] 2, 800 captive elephants in Thailand. You do not need any more elephants in Thailand. There is no conservation, biodiversity, any other argument for it. But we're obviously working against an industry that doesn't want
to see the end of breeding in particular because babies bring money. And so that's one of the areas where we're very proud of the support, the public mobilization and the offer that we've put into the Thai government. It's for the Thai government to make that choice. I would add that they have an alternative bill from the industry that surprisingly doesn't include a breeding ban. So we continue to pressure them on this, but it's a work in progress. But I think it speaks to what World Animal Protection, alongside its kind of NGO partners, can do in terms of bringing the voice of people from 26 countries to the Thai Prime Minister and the Thai government. And then
another kind of success that we're, again, in partnership, we've been working with an organization called Blood Lions in South Africa. And they have [00:37:00] been absolutely tireless campaigners in this space with us around ending the commercial captive lion industry. This is a term that listeners may or may not have heard, but canned lions is, is what we're talking about. So these lions are brought up, they are raised, often inbred, purely for hunting purposes, purely for foreign tourists to go to South Africa and to shoot them. And our estimate is that there's around 8, 000 kept in South Africa in nearly 350 facilities across the country. And people don't just necessarily engage in the hunting, but some people may go to cub petting or 'walk with lion' experiences. And those are actually used to tame the lions, so that actually it's easier to hunt.
So, it's a horrific full circle industry, but [00:38:00] ourselves, along with our partners, Blood Lions, got a delivery from the South African government on its 2021 pledge to end the country's commercial captive industry. We've been part of the ministerial task force working out how a voluntary exit scheme would work for people involved in this. And actually, in March this year, they released their report and confirmed that that they are going to end this industry. So it's a first step along a kind of long journey as to how these lion breeding facilities need to be closed down and also what would happen to those lions. But again, it shows that kind of campaigning as part of a partnership, we get to an outcome where -- you know, animals such as the lions won't be bred into captivity. And then, what else do I like to tell you? We can talk about the kind of alternatives we're trying to give to the tourism industry as [00:39:00] well. So, it's all very good, us saying, "don't go and see dolphins in
tanks", but people still would like to see marine life and mammals. So, we have worked, based off a concept of whale heritage sites, which have been successfully developed by our partner, World Citation Alliance, on wildlife heritage areas. And these are to give alternatives to the tourism travel companies, so that they can promote ethical and responsible animal experiences. There's currently 10 wildlife heritage centers around the world. You can find out more. We'll
drop it in the notes as to where these are. The criteria for a sort of designated area is really, really robust and it's transparent, so people can see and be reassured that the destinations are meeting the kind of highest standards of animal welfare. And this program also works with local communities to make sure that they are benefiting from this, but it's really about creating responsible [00:40:00] tourism. And really shifting the industry away from that idea of harmful captivity and towards a more kind of respectful coexistence with wildlife, nature, and the communities that surround them. Thank you so much for walking through those examples. It's clear that, to your earlier point, there's always more work to do. With each success, there's more to build on. That when we think about taking things further, what do you see as key areas for
World Animal Protection and other organizations to collaborate, to build on these successes, particularly in terms of advancing wildlife farming bans? And, for instance, as you're talking about these examples, one question that comes to mind for me is, what role do technology companies and other platforms play? We've talked a little bit about some tourism examples. When we think about the role that photos play, right, in many tourism experiences, I can think about any number of different collaborators. I know we've [00:41:00] got some examples of successful collaborations to date. Would just love to hear your thoughts on how do we take things further,
including additional types of organizations and collaborations? Yeah, I think that's the kind of ongoing challenge, isn't it? The ongoing challenge for us is always seeking those partnerships that we can build out. As I've said, public mobilization helps us incredibly in terms of moving governments in the right way and sort of shifting the way in which industries work so that they are either removing cruel animal practices or they're moving to more kind of ethical ways. You mentioned technology, and I think, for us, we watch that technological advanced space very closely, always looking and trying to promote the kind of non-animal alternatives. As I mentioned, our work in traditional medicine has all been about working with practitioners in China to understand the issues and to then work with others to offer [00:42:00] alternatives, whether that's synthetically- derived or more of a kind of herbal, engineered substitute. I think there are things we can do in the tourism industry that perhaps you aren't able to go and see animals in the wildest of wildlife experiences and their most natural of habitats. But there are things like virtual reality experiences where you can walk through them and I think, if I was growing up now, as a kid, I'd be mesmerized by going and having some VR experience where I can be around animals. I think in terms of the illegal kind of activity associated with wildlife farms, there's
a lot of surveillance and enforcement techniques that we watch and use, particularly around species identification. That's been very helpful. We've also used methods to distinguish between wild and captive lions, testing to try and catch up with a kind of lion bone trade that there is. And then, over the last couple of decades, World Animal Protection, along with other NGOs, has been integral in the [00:43:00] microchipping of bears in Vietnam. Something that is very prevalent in other countries around domesticated animals, but it's actually very useful in that trade to make sure that there aren't new entries into the bear bile farming world. And then we also use social listening techniques, image recognition software, particularly to gain insight where we think that wildlife exploitation is happening. And then as you mentioned, social media. There's so much going on in that space that we are part of coalitions working on where we are looking at how, that social media is a tool for information, both good and bad, can be utilized, but also as a tool for education, particularly around selfies with animals and things like that.
And then we also collaborate with celebrities, where possible, as well to try and dispel some of the Instagram unreality that is showing people that they want to do, but actually try and get people and [00:44:00] influencers to speak about the experience that they're actually having. So, it's a kind of melting pot of a number of areas for us. And focused on different decisions to be made, right, and steps in each of these processes. Absolutely. Yeah. When you think about critical next steps, what are some of the challenges you're most focused on right now in terms of addressing barriers, in terms of advancing progress, whether on the consumer, the organizational, or the government side? I think some of the key challenges is really about targeted information to consumers. And I think that's a challenge for most organizations, but in a world where the kind of information zone has become proliferated, that's always a challenge to us to make sure that we're targeting the right people or the right audiences, particularly with information around more ethical kind of tourism [00:45:00] methods.
I think a challenge for any kind of charity is always the money, the cost of to do this. We are often up against bigger businesses, multi-million profit organizations, who it's not in their interest to change. So it's really about how we use every possible tool to get our message out. And then I think we're not quite there yet in the animal cruelty, animal welfare being in the center of government's thinking. I think it's still seen very much as a kind of afterthought, and that connection of the dots of the impact on human health, and the impact on the environment, and the impact on the climate, and the impact on nature, and the impact-- it's getting that sense that that's where animals are. And I'll use a kind of example, is that in the UK at the moment, there
is a big drive to try and clean up our waterways and our river ways, and in [00:46:00] part, because the water companies have not been looking after sewage in the way that they should. But actually, the point that I've made to the UK government is, you can't clear up riverways unless you deal with industrial farming, for instance. So then, again, it's an animal welfare issue, but the runoff into waterways is affecting human health. So it's always looking at like, if you
have animals at the heart of what you're doing, at the heart of government policy, you'd actually build a much healthier and happier society, and one that is more in tune with the environment, than we actually have today, and an economy that's more in tune with the environment that we have today. I absolutely agree. I think, circling back on some of the points you had raised earlier in our discussion, when we think about bringing animals to that conversation, the benefits are innumerable for people, and for [00:47:00] ecosystems, and for biodiversity, right? And these conversations may involve broadening the stakeholders in the sense that animals are not necessarily part of the conversation today. But by doing so, we help people, and we help nature, and we help address climate issues, and we help in any number of different ways that are already top of mind and areas of focus. So they're not in competition. They are aligned. Yes. Absolutely.
And I think it's sometimes, it's definitely tricky when you work in animal welfare. You feel sometimes if you're not leading with the animal issue, that somehow you're failing. But actually, often in these spaces, particularly the ones that I'm in and folks in World Animal Protection are in, we're talking about different issues. We might be talking about antimicrobial resistance on human health, but actually what we're really talking about at the end of the day is animals. And it's just getting comfortable with being in those [00:48:00] spaces and knowing who you represent, knowing the constituent that you represent. But that you might be talking about different issues around climate change or around habitat loss. But all of it, the center of it,
is really about making a difference for animals across the globe. Absolutely. So we mentioned from the beginning that we would talk about some tips for those listening. Particularly when we think about those making day-to-day decisions, how can listeners ensure they make more compassionate choices related to pets, travel, traditional Asian medicine, and fashion, getting back to our four examples from earlier? So, I think the simplest way is to refuse to buy products that are made of wild animal parts, whether that's medicine, clothing, fashion. And where you see brands or companies that are promoting these items, you should shun them. And, where [00:49:00] you aren't sure whether an item comes from or what it is made of, educate yourself. Ask those questions. Be that
person that's in the shop going, "but what is it? What is it? What is it?" There are humane, sustainable alternatives available. You do not need to go down that route of purchasing crocodile skin or kangaroo skin or anything like that. There's absolutely no need in this world. And if anything, the alternatives are better, in my personal opinion. The same goes for kind of any wild animal being kept as a pet. If it hasn't been domesticated over the last 2, 000 years, i. e. a cat or a dog, it probably shouldn't be in your home. So, really looking at your decision as a fueler of a bigger issue. So you may be fascinated by reptiles, amphibians, but know
that that is driving them either being taken from the wild or being intensely bred to be provided to you through the likes of pets at home or similar kind of places. And then with [00:50:00] travel and tourism, it's really, I suppose, our kind of general rule is: if you can hug it, ride it, touch it, wash it, or take a photo up close with a wild animal, the chances are that animal suffers in order to do it. If you are standing with a mega beast like an elephant, and it is not moving away from you, something is wrong. That elephant has been trained in the most brutal ways to do that. And it knows that if it walks away, there'll be consequences. So, it's just being aware of, really, what might look like a great experience, just isn't. It's a lifetime of cruelty. And so really urge, if you can't afford or you can't see animals in the wild, go on your favorite streaming service, watch some incredible documentary instead, but just don't go and engage in the practices that involve fueling that industry. And, as much as people want to [00:51:00] touch
and be close to animals, knowing that wild animals are meant to be wild and further away from us for a whole range of issues. Just really taking that time to consider those experiences. And if you find yourself in that experience, you somehow have ended up at the dolphin show or at the elephant washing venue, just walk away. Walk away and use it as a point of education. Just if it happens and you end up there, then just use it as a life lesson, no judgment on you, and just know that there's a chance to do something different and become an advocate for a different way of seeing animals. I know we are almost out of time. I can imagine some of our listeners hearing this and saying, well, what about zoos? Or what about aquariums? Do you have any kind of high-level practices or guidelines that you and World Animal Protection advise in those capacities? Yeah, I [00:52:00] think, come and check out our website, because there is more advice on there around those areas, and it really does depend on the ownership, the running of, I wouldn't want to give a kind of blanket "no" to all of those, because there are some that are doing incredible work in conservation terms elsewhere in the world. But, I think just come and check out
worldanimalprotection. org's website for further information. I think, as we spoke about earlier, especially if you've got kids who are interested in animals, taking them to the zoo is probably one of the ways that they're very keen to see it. But just be aware that not all captive facilities are built the same. From us at World Animal Protection, we would prefer all animals to be seen in the wild, not in any captive circumstances, but there are sanctuaries out there that are doing great work in that they are offering a life for particularly elephants and the like, that you wouldn't get, they wouldn't get that life without it. So it's just really just looking [00:53:00] at who's owning it and the kind of the other partners they've got in that space. And actually, in the case of some of our elephant sanctuaries that we support in Thailand, they'll have consumer choice awards from TripAdvisor or they'll have our logo on them. You can look for those and have
a level of reassurement there. Additional certification or essentially endorsement, yes? Yeah. Thank you for walking through those examples. In addition to your website, where else can listeners go to learn more about you and World Animal Protection and your impactful work? So, we're in the usual spaces. We're on LinkedIn, we're on TikTok, we're on X, although we put more of our content on LinkedIn nowadays. We're on Facebook and obviously on our website. So, yeah, you can follow me on LinkedIn, it's Tricia Croasdell, and I often post about these issues. I post important reports from not just ourselves, but from other organizations, so you can see the latest in animal welfare issues as seen from me. [00:54:00] Fantastic. Well,
thank you so much. This has been an inspiring and powerful conversation. We will make sure that the links to these resources are included along with this episode. And I hope we can set up another time to talk about the issues that you mentioned from the beginning, because I know there's so much more to explore. Really appreciate you taking the time today. Oh, Erin, thank you so much. And thanks so much to your listeners. Thank you, Tricia. We're excited to see the responses and
really appreciate you taking the time to share all of your insights with us. Thank you.
2024-11-12 20:27
