Meet the Press full broadcast — Feb. 26

this Sunday defending democracy one year after Russia invaded Ukraine President Biden promises to stand strong against the threat from Vladimir Putin Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia never but what does Victory look like and are we giving them enough to win the war or just survive it if you want Victory we have to do more plus Rising tensions as the U.S continues to warn China about sending weapons to Ukraine tensions are rising in the South China Sea is the Pentagon preparing to move more troops to Taiwan my guest this morning the National Security adviser to President Biden Jake Sullivan and Republican senator Dan Sullivan of Alaska and off the rails I sincerely hope that when all of the politicians get here including Biden they get back from touring Ukraine that he's got some money left over Donald Trump travels to the site of the toxic trained derailment in Ohio to bash the Biden Administration for focusing more overseas creating the first real split screen moment of the 2024 campaign joining me for insight and Analysis are NBC News chief White House correspondent Kristen Welker NPR White House correspondent Tamara key Republican strategist Al cardness and journalist and author Jonathan Alton welcome to Sunday it's Meet the Press from NBC News in Washington the longest running show in television history this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd good Sunday morning as the war in Ukraine enters its second year the question is what will Victory look like it's pretty clear no one involved not the United States or our European allies Ukraine or Russia can afford for this war to be in the same place it is today going into year three a year from now and yet both sides President Biden in a surprise visit to Keith and Vladimir Putin this week in Moscow prepared the world for a drawn-out conflict one year into this War Putin no longer doubts the strength of our coalition but he still doubts our conviction he doubts our staying power but there should be no doubt our support for Ukraine will not waver NATO will not be divided and we will not tired we decided to conduct a special military operation step by step we will continue to resolve the objectives that are before us they started the war and we used the force in order to stop it iden's visit to Ukraine was the first time in modern history that a sitting U.S president has visited an active war zone without a U.S military presence and Biden has hitched his legacy to the success of this war can he afford for it to drag on into the year 2024 and the inevitable presidential campaign the American public is already divided on providing ongoing support to Ukraine split 49-47 on whether Congress should provide more weapons and funding isolationism among Republicans is growing with the leading presidential hopefuls out there right now trying to show some distance from the Ukraine war on Friday despite Ukraine's request and a growing bipartisan course in Congress President Biden made it clear he is ruling out providing f-16s for now meanwhile Russia has sustained nearly 200 000 casualties eight times higher than U.S casualties in the two decades

of War we waged in Afghanistan moscow's winter offensive has so far delivered just minor territorial gains the only potential beneficiary of a protracted conflict maybe China which offered a peace plan by the way that Ukraine did not reject out of hand the U.S did and it is still leveling accusations that China is considering providing lethal Aid to Russia U.S officials tell NBC news that intelligence suggests that Aid includes artillery and ammunition but as U.S officials sound the alarm on Friday President Biden downplayed the threat from China I don't anticipate we haven't seen it yet but I don't anticipate a major initiative on the part of China providing Weaponry too to uh to to Russia and joining me now is uh the president's National Security adviser Jake Sullivan Jake welcome back to Meet the Press thanks for having me Chuck I want to start right there secretary blinken last week and youth throughout the week have been very serious uh uh seriously concerned over what China could be doing President Biden seemed to downplay that risk there is that is that is that his gut or do you have new intelligence suggesting the Chinese are backing off well we have the same intelligence that we've had that has been behind the comments secretary blinken has made and what you just heard from President Biden which is we have not seen China yet provide military equipment to Russia for purposes of fighting in the war in Ukraine we haven't seen it yet we're continuing to watch we'll stay vigilant as President Biden said but so far we haven't seen it do you have a sense of what their why why they would make a decision to do this what would be their strategic reason for doing it if they did it foreign it's a great question Chuck because I don't think it is in China's interest to do this I think it would alienate them from a number of countries in the world including our European allies and it would put them four square into the center of responsibility for the kinds of war crimes and bombardments of civilians and atrocities that the Russians are committing in Ukraine their weapons would in effect be used for the slaughter of people in Ukraine so I think it would be ill-advised for China to move forward but of course that's a decision Beijing is going to have to make for itself other than saying there would be consequences for getting involved you or anybody else is not laid out any specific consequences why not why not go public with what could be the consequences whether it's on sanctions whether it's more it's weapons or troops to Taiwan why not lay it out in public well we believe that this is better done directly with Chinese counterparts in private and in fact secretary blinken had the opportunity to meet with China's top Diplomat at the Munich security conference just a few days ago so we have channels to be able to make sure that China fully understands the U.S position and what would happen were they to move forward with this step and we don't see as much profit in microphone diplomacy on this I understand that do you have the Western allies on board with the the the the immediate response that you want to do with China or is that going to be a slog we've actually had intense and very positive consultations with our NATO allies with other members of the Coalition supporting Ukraine and in fact Chuck they're taking steps themselves to communicate to Beijing senior officials from Europe are directly talking to senior officials in China expressing their own strong warnings about China moving forward in this regard so you believe that the severe consequences the U.S would level that are European and NATO allies would go along with them well in staying away from microphone diplomacy I will stay away from hypotheticals all I will say is that we have had extremely effective constructive discussions with our European allies about this contingency I think we're all on the same page about our concern our alarm were this to happen we all see the same thing right now which is China has not moved forward and we will deal with the circumstance should have come to pass in put out many United States Administration officials have essentially dismissed it out of hand but president zielinski didn't what do you make of his decision and is that a smart move by him foreign ski said where there were parts of the plan he didn't like and parts of the plan that he thought could be okay one part of the plan that I particularly liked is point one of the plan point one of the plan was respect the sovereignty of all Nations the plan could just stop there because Russia could end this war by respecting Ukraine sovereignty and pulling out but what president zielinski also said and this is critical Chuck is that he would like to speak to president XI China put forward this plan without having had a single conversation since the War Began between President XI and president zielinski the Chinese have talked to the Russians a lot but at the most senior levels they have not talked to the ukrainians and it's very difficult to advance any kind of Peace initiative when there's that kind of one-sided diplomacy going on so from our perspective the critical thing is that any peace Plan offered by anybody has to involve the input of Ukraine as President Biden has constantly said nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine and that goes for this initiative as well as any other initiative Under the Sun let's talk about some of the uh some of the uh I I I'll call it I guess criticism if you will from some Democrats who believe that Aid there is more Aid that needs to be sent to Ukraine and it needs to happen faster including the f-16s I want to play an array of folks Jason Crowe Mike mcfaul former Ambassador Russia uh and Jared golden take a listen they need more aircraft they need more advanced aircrafts that's why we've been pressing the administration on a bipartisan basis to help them Advance their Air Force to give them what they need to fight and win I think if you want Victory we have to do more we're not giving them the weapons they need for this counter-offensive that they're planning in the spring and I think time's going to run out some people have raised concerns about training well last September many of us called on the administration to start training in F-16 or fourth generation aircraft uh and of course that hasn't that hasn't even begun so the time to start this processes right now and Jacob said and I want you to respond to directly I understand you say the f-16s are not something they need right now um but to Congressman Golden's Point Why not start training ukrainians on this now so that when we inevitably do this or likely do it they're ready to use them well first Chuck it's important for people to understand that Ukrainian Pilots are currently flying day in and day out they are flying uh their Soviet era Fighters Mig Fighters sukhoi's and the Coalition is providing spare parts for those planes to ensure that they can stay in the sky so first of all we are providing a substantial amount of support to the Ukrainian Air Force for The Limited kinds of missions that the current War calls for them to undertake secondly the central focus of all of our efforts right now is to help them take back territory that Russia currently occupies and the assessment of our military commanders those giving advice to President Biden are that what they need right now are tanks and armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting Vehicles artillery and air defense systems up there on the front line that's what we're giving them and we're giving it to them fast we're giving it to them in large quantities and the question of f-16s is really a question for another day for another phase this phase is about ground combat and being able to have the tools in the hands of the ukrainians to take the territory back that the Russians are occupying I'm just curious why not take that the the F-16 talking point off the table going you're right we're going to provide them with that help down the road because you've said we're committed to Ukraine's security and perpetuity you know it's really at the end of the day not our job to focus on the talking points question and you know what the right thing to say on a Sunday show or uh in in some other public forum it's our job to figure out morning noon and night what does the Ukrainian Army need on those front lines and how do we get to get it to them as rapidly as possible and we have moved with unprecedented speed and at unprecedented scale to get them a massive amount of military assistance so that they have been able to defend effectively and to take back half of the territory so far that Russia previously occupied during this war um simple question I know it's got a complicated answer what does Victory look like for Ukraine that's up to Ukraine to Define it has been critical to us and and I said it just earlier in this interview that there'd be nothing without uh about Ukraine without Ukraine and so it's not for the United States to Define victory for Ukraine it's for the United States to support Ukraine on the battlefield so that they can achieve the victory that they Define that's what we are determined to do we believe they can achieve that and we are going to give them the implements the tools that they need to be able to achieve that well if that's the case Ukrainian president zielinski did Define Victory what he thought Victory looked like in August of last year he said Crimea is Ukrainian and we will never give it up this Russian war against Ukraine and against the entire free Europe began with Crimea and must end with Crimea with its Liberation there's always been a hesitance among U.S officials Jake and I

know you're included here about Crimea specifically and it's always been well it's up to Ukraine well president zielinski said it Victory is all of the territory back why don't we say the same thing now well we have repeatedly talked about Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial Integrity with it in its internationally recognized borders the question for us is how do we put Ukraine in the best position on the battlefield so that they are ultimately in the best position at the negotiating table and president zielinski as recently as this week has said we are going to have to ultimately get to a diplomatic phase of this conflict so from our perspective our goal is to strengthen the handy of the ukrainians on the battlefield so that they are in the strongest position with the most leverage when they get to the negotiating table to ultimately achieve an outcome that restores Ukraine's full sovereignty and territorial Integrity if they want to take Crimea militarily will the United States help Ukraine do that Chuck the critical thing right now is that they need to take back the territory in the South and the East that they are currently focused on and we need to give them the tools to be able to do that the question of Crimea and the question of what happens down the road is something that we will come to where we are right now is that we need to be focused on the immediate term because it is critical that we move fast and we move decisively to help them take back the territory uh across that line of contact that Russian troops are currently occupying sounds like you think the ideal outcome is Ukraine is able to take more territory back Putin fears that he could lose Crimea and he comes to the negotiating table to see if he can keep Crimea is that the best case scenario you're envisioning again I understand why you're asking the question but you have to understand that from the United States perspective we're not going to negotiate over the destiny and sovereignty of another country that is for their democratically elected president to decide what we are going to do is give Ukraine the tools that it needs as I said before to be in the strongest possible position to ultimately be able to convert Battlefield gains into diplomatic leverage that is the goal here and that requires us to achieve those Battlefield gains through the provision of military assistance to Ukraine uh in the open of our show people are seeing footage of a Chinese fighter jet warning an American fighter jet over the South China Sea earlier this week we happen to have a reporter on board of that it only underscores just all the tension we have with China just in the last couple of weeks we've had a seven hour meeting with Taiwanese officials we're sending more troops to Taiwan China is ignoring calls from our defense secretary secretary blinken had a cancel this trip the president wants to have a call with Chi there's no evidence that anything's been scheduled this lack of communication how dangerous is this situation with China right now well we have said repeatedly that we need to have military Communications channels to avoid escalation to avoid surprise to avoid mistake and it is unfortunate that the Chinese defense Ministry has declined to take calls from the U.S Secretary of Defense that's on China because from the U.S perspective for the rest of the world we are acting responsibly we are prepared to have those those lines of Crisis communication we had them during the Cold War at the height of the Cold War when the U.S and the Soviet Union are squaring off but Chuck we do have the the ability to speak to China at high levels and as I mentioned secretary blinken spoke with his counterpart the top Diplomat of China Wang Yi at Munich just a few days ago so it is not that all lines of communication are cut are shut off but rather that we do not have the military to military exchanges that we think are necessary to ensure stability do we have anything scheduled with the president and she on a phone call in the near term nothing scheduled at the moment though I anticipate the two leaders will speak at some point in the not too distant future all right Jake Sullivan the President Biden uh National Security advisor as always sir thank you for coming on and sharing the administration's perspective when we come back there is a growing Republican divide over aiding Ukraine as the war passes the one-year Mark will those Skeptics including some 2024 presidential candidates impact future funding for the war Republican senator Dan Sullivan of Alaska the only member of the Senate currently serving in the military joins me next [Music] welcome back no issue illustrates the shift in the Republican Party better than the war in Ukraine right now where traditional hawkishness on Russia has been replaced by a deep skepticism of U.S involvement overseas particularly when the policy is led by a Democratic president named Joe Biden and a Washington Post poll this month 50 percent of Republicans said the U.S was doing too much to support Ukraine that's up from just 18 percent who said the same thing in April of last year this GOP split was on display this week as a handful of congressional Republicans who are supportive of the of the Biden policy in Ukraine met with Ukrainian president zielinski and Keith while back here at home most of the declared and likely presidential hopefuls Were Striking a more skeptical tone about Ukraine with really one notable exception World War III has never been closer than it is right now we need to clean house of all of the war mongers and America last globalists in the Deep State well they have effectively a blank check policy with no clear strategic objective identified and I don't think it's in our interest to be getting into proxy war with China getting involved over things like the Borderlands or over Crimea I don't think we need to write on blank checks but they have the passion to fight for their own Freedom give them the ammunition to do it there can be no room in the leadership of the Republican party for apologist for Putin needless to say there's going to be a robust debate on the presidential debate stage there but joining me now is Republican senator Dan Sullivan of Alaska is a member of the Senate armed services committee he's also a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve the only member right now the United States Senate that does currently serve in the military Senator Sullivan welcome back to Meet the Press morning Chuck good to be on the show um let me just start with the basics you heard from the National Security advisor there um what does what do you think Victory looks like for Ukraine well you know I think just to begin with um looking at the past year we need to recognize how we got here what mistakes were made and what can what we can do going forward I think one element that the National Security advisor doesn't talk about I think it was clearly some of the Biden administration's weakness on issues like energy National Defense and clearly the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan that emboldened Putin to undertake the brutal invasion of Ukraine I think though that now that we are in this battle it's strongly in our interest to continue to support the ukrainians to restore their territorial integrity and their sovereignty without committing U.S forces but you know Chuck

your interview actually highlighted one of the problems Jake Sullivan's talking about well we're not going to do f-16s today that's for another time not right now that has been a pattern with this Administration from the beginning where they have slow rolled critical military weapon systems you know it's a long list it's Patriots it's high Mars it's tanks and now it's f-16s and to me that is a real blunder we need to get them what they need now and listen to the ukrainians right um not as he said the policy makers they've proven their ability to fight bravely and I think we need to do a much better job took nine months to get them the Patriots and I fear the same things happening right now with the f-16s you just saw it from the National Security advisor do you want the administration to speak with more clarity on the in restoring the entire territorial Integrity of Ukraine pre-2014 which of course means Crimea well I think you saw the unease that Jake Sullivan demonstrated when you were pressing him on that I do agree that this is going to be up to the ukrainians and zielinski we need to give them like I said the weapon systems to undertake that but I think they should be more clear I think it should be all the territorial Integrity of the entire country which includes Crimea and so yes I think they need more clarity on that in the National Security advisor didn't demonstrate it in his interview with you today let's talk about more uh support for Ukraine going forward in the introduction I highlighted it there is a growing divide in your party I do you think you're in the minority now among the Russia Hawks in your party these days no I don't think so I mean you look at the U.S Senate the members who are on committees like Intel armed services like myself Foreign Affairs I think they're still uh a strong contingent of Republicans who support um supporting the ukrainians now I do think that there are legitimate criticisms of this administration's conduct of the uh supporting the ukrainians let me give you one that in particular being home in Alaska really matters you know from the beginning of this Administration this Administration has been focused on shutting down the production of American Energy well as you know Chuck Xi Jinping and Putin fear American Energy dominance and so to have an Administration that's shutting down energy making it harder to move energy uh pushing back on the ability to finance energy for uh America this actually directly relates to our efforts to push back again Xi Jinping Putin you know in many ways their energy policies have been National Security suicide and I think this is what frustrates Republicans where we see that other policies of this Administration aren't at all helping pushing back on what I refer to as this new era of authoritarian aggression led by Putin and Xi Jinping and it's a frustration you're seeing uh among Republicans but it's also frustration among Democrats but I'm curious of your take on the the growing look this isolationist wing of the GOP used to basically be Ron and Rand Paul um it's bigger than that now how much of it do you think is is sort of genuine sort of um leeriness of of interventions because of Iraq and Afghanistan on the right and how much of it do you think it's simply because Biden's a Democrat look I think always you've always had on both sides kind of the wings of each party an isolationist tendency and I think that this um war in particular you're right the polling is starting to show a lack of support and I think that there are ways that you can address this a lot of Republicans say hey we should be doing more on our own border not the Ukraine Russia border my response to that is hey great powers can do both things but it is important to address our own border to secure the border that would take away one of the arguments something else and I hear from alaskans all the time on this we need to do a better job the administration needs to do a better job of getting our European allies right to pull their weight is you know Chuck they've had a commitment to spend uh at a minimum and it should be a floor not a ceiling two percent of their GDP on defense the vast majority of the NATO allies that we have don't do that and I think that frustrates Americans where we see this huge conflict in the heart of Europe and the Europeans aren't stepping up enough the way in which they need to and I think pressing them to do more and having them do more can help push back against some of the doubts that are starting to spread across the country on Ukrainian support what do you think the best way is to deter China from uh helping the Russians right now is and if they do what should the consequences be well look they're already helping the Russians I mean every time you hear the Chinese officials talk about this they're blaming us they're blaming NATO for the Ukrainian War I agree there should be a serious red line with regard to them supplying military equipment to the Russians and I think that should be in the form of sanctions but you know there's a broader issue here Chuck and I think this is another one where Republicans are actually more united and it's the war in Ukraine really um revealed that we are in this new era of authoritarian aggression led by Xi Jinping and Putin as you know they're working together they are increasingly isolated they view their Democratic neighbors um in a very paranoid way and I think that this challenge where they are looking to take aggressive actions against uh their neighbors whether it's in Ukraine whether it's Taiwan I think it's going to be with us for decades we need to face it with strategic resolve and confidence there's a number of things that we have with regard to our strategic advantages over these dictators that we should promote if we're wise enough to use them our military our allies our natural resources and energy and of course our commitment to democracy and Liberty I mean that in many ways that was what really helped us win the Cold War Xi Jinping and Putin you know their biggest vulnerabilities they fear their own people right we need to exploit that um as we move forward but I think that can unify Republicans and Democrats I want to follow up on one more thing on China there's another there's a report today that another intelligence arm of the U.S government this is inside our energy department has joined the FBI in concluding that covet began with a lab leak in China if we end up determining if our intelligence community over time determines this is the majority View and it's the U.S government's view that this was a lab leak in China and that government covered it up what should be the consequences well I think we need to have public hearings on this and really dig into it think about what just happened over the last three years one of the biggest pandemics in a century a lot of evidence that it's coming from the Chinese and when other countries even raise it like Australia the Chinese use their coercive economic activities to shut people up so I think we need to do extensive hearings I hope our Democratic colleagues in the Congress can support that I know the Republicans in the house are certainly supportive of that but I think if that happens we need to make sure every country in the world knows this look this is a country that has no problem coming out and lying to the world we just saw that with this Chinese spy balloon it's the nature of a Communist dictatorship to lie to their own people to lie to the world but I think that we need to make sure every country knows that and then look at what the consequences could be obviously millions of deaths huge economic impacts and it would once again show that the Chinese Communist party is not only a menace but the nature of these regimes is to lie to the world and we need to make that clear to people I think you're definitely right on those public hearings at a minimum we need to know what we know and the world needs to know what we know Senator Dan Sullivan republican from the great state of Alaska thanks for getting up very early this morning out there uh and sharing your perspective with us before we go to Greg I want to show you our Meet the Press minute it takes a look at the legacy of President Jimmy Carter who is receiving Hospice Care at his home in Plains Georgia over the course of 40 years Carter appeared on this program 11 times in December 1974 he joined us the week he announced his bid for the White House to talk about why he wanted the nation's top job I think we we have a nation that is truly great not that used to be great or someday would be great again but one that has an innate uh character about it that's not adequately recognized a stability of pride in its past an economic strength that is presently not recognized adequately by the people in this country and around the world also I think there's a there's a lack of purpose in our country's government now which is much more vulnerable than the people deserve it's hard to detect what are our goals what common purpose we work toward what sort of sacrifices might be expected from the American people and if I can exemplify the correction of some of the defects that have been brought in our government by politicians and not by the people and help to restore the greatness of his country then I'd like to do it when we come back Donald Trump turned the side of the Ohio train derailment into a campaign stop to highlight Biden's absence while he was overseas in Ukraine our panelists here as we look into what may be the first split screen moment of the 2024 campaign [Music] welcome back to panelists here NBC News chief White House correspondent Crystal Welker co-anchor weekend today Jonathan alter journalist and author of his very best life uh his very best Jimmy Carter a life apologies there NPR White House correspondent Tamara Keith welcome and Republican strategist Al cardness all right um we really had our first split screen moment and I'm curious Kristen I'm going to play it here um essentially uh it was Donald Trump what I thought was a risky move holding a campaign event in East Palestine here he is we will stand with you let us move forward with faith and conviction and with an abiding commitment to be allies I sincerely hope that when your representatives and all of the politicians get here including Biden they get back from touring Ukraine that he's got some money left over the president in an interview on Friday was was a pretty defensive of the response basically saying hey we were there from the beginning EPA was there from the beginning and all of those things behind the scenes any regret at the optic problems here for them they're pretty defiant Chuck but I have to tell you privately some allies of the president are concerned that he hasn't been there yet and they're saying he needs to go but I've pressed them over and over again are there any plans for the president to go and they say there are no conversations about that they reiterate what you just said we were on the ground within two hours of this crisis happening we've gotten all the resources there that are needed and I do think big picture there's a question Optics are important when you're dealing with a crisis like this there's no doubt about that we learned that during Hurricane Katrina for example the question is will this backfire on President Biden if he doesn't go but could it backfire on former president Trump because his visit has put in the spotlight the fact that he rolled back a hundred environmental regulations and so that's become a part of this conversation as well so I think that there are risks involved for both of them and the question becomes will we see President Biden on the ground coming weeks at this point in time still no plans for that camera I sense that almost they don't want to look like they've been pushed into anything but Fox News and Donald Trump is that are they being stubborn about this and this white house doesn't like to feel like they're being pushed into things they have resisted other calls for him he's got to be there um though this weekend they've told us that the CDC the EPA and FEMA are going door to door checking on people you know the government is here to help kind of a thing so pushing back on the idea that these people are forgotten I don't know if if everyone is going to want to knock on their door from three federal agencies but that's what they're going to get you know press and Biden though has a habit of showing up late to just about everything we think significant in Florida during the campaign the Florida Democrats were saying hey these guys are here every week you haven't shown up they're calling a socialists you got to come defend us and he finally showed up like three weeks before the election after one year of being prompted It On the Border he just showed up at the border why shouldn't he have been there long before and now in this incident he had a good reason not to be there but he has his reputation preceding him about being places too late I just don't think the split screen hurts Biden at all he's on a very successful trip and his messages were the arsenal of democracy the FDR message he's backing the modern Winston Churchill zelenski what is Trump doing he's saying to the people of Palestine uh have a good time he's handing out Maga caps that's not a very good impression for him and and I was in Poland with President Biden just to add to that point he was making this broader case this war is not just about the war in Ukraine it's about democracy it's about upholding American ideals and his surprise trip to Ukraine if you talk to Republicans and Democrats they say it may be one of the strongest counterpoints yet to this narrative he's too old for a second term no I think that was a big moment for him and vibrancy absolutely it was not an easy trip president has done what he did which was spend 25 hours a country at War a country where the U.S doesn't have a base of operations I mean that is a 10-hour train ride each direction is a is a remarkable feat for this white house to have pulled off and they are quite happy that that they pulled that off but I want to talk about the fact that you know I was thinking about we've had three one-term presidents in our lifetime essentially and two of them lost arguably due to foreign policy issues Jonathan you've profiled one of them in Carter and that was the Iran hostage crisis George H.W

bush Bill Clinton successfully sort of used a you know message that Trump was using which is hey he's so concerned overseas it's the economy stupid here this war can't drag on into 24 can it well I think it very well might yeah the question is whether it will swamp uh Joe Biden the way events overseas ended up swamping Jimmy Carter in the first half of his turn Carter was very successful but these events kind of really burdened him the difference is inflation so basically speaking of the thing that could hurt both of them right so events overseas with the Iranian Revolution in 1979 that kicked off a whole new round of inflation so Carter was running for re-election with double-digit inflation and double-digit interest rates in these overwhelmed many of his quite big achievements which few people remember now so if Biden can manage to keep inflation in check in the next couple of years even if there's a stalemate in Ukraine I think it'll be okay go ahead but I want you to address the the growing divide in your party I mean you're you're a hawk against authoritarianism as somebody as a good South Florida Republican what's going on with the Santos here yeah that's a great question I mean here's someone who served in the military after uh going to Harvard and Yale I mean he had the world in front of him without those records and yet he went into the military you would think like Dan Sullivan that he'd be on Dan Solomon's track not not the track of of the dissenter so I that's one I can't figure it out uh maybe he's concerned about the base that follows Donald Trump uh and maybe that's uh that's a reason but that that one I can't figure out I did want to say that of all of the comments we've made about presidents losing elections the one that didn't participate in election but whose circumstances are more similar to Biden was Lyndon Johnson yeah he's in the middle of a war with uh you know Russian black people and his numbers kept falling and then he said you know what I'm I'm stepping down I think I think my point is I think that's a big difference I think Biden may be facing the Linda and Johnson predicament before you consider his running for re-election all right I'm gonna have to leave that there but that's a fascinating conversation and the point is if this gets into 24 we don't know how this is going to play with the American people up next the Ohio train disaster was 100 preventable according to Federal investigators trains are still though some of the safest options for transporting hazardous chemicals I'm going to show you why after the break [Music] welcome back data download time that East Palestine train derailment and the chemical spill at Causeway some are new questions about the safety of rail travel and using it to transport toxic chemicals just how safe is shipping toxic cargo by train the answer it's somewhat complicated let me show you train deer elements overall have actually been going down over the last 10 years we had over 1300 derailments in 2013 just over a thousand in 2022 about three a day good news is not all these train derailments are trains carrying hazardous materials now though let's compare Hazmat spills on Railway incidents so we had 667 Hazmat spills in 2013 on the tracks railroad tracks it's down to 355 in 2022 so if you you can see it's actually been getting safer by rail now contrast that by Hazmat spills on the highways look at this in 2013 we had nearly 14 000. it's actually been going up we had over 23 000 Hazmat spills by highway just 355 by train so clearly safer to do this and better to do this by train right well you start to look at it financially it's a different story let's take 2022 as an example there were over 23 000 incidents that happened on highways the cost of those cleanups 21 million dollars the 355 incidents by rail cost of that was more than double that 45 million dollars now why is that it's mainly due to one large rail spill in May it was a train carrying petroleum products that derailed in Harmar Township Pennsylvania spilled over 3 000 gallons into a creek cost over 30 million dollars in Damages by the way the rail operator of that train none other than Norfolk Southern the same one behind this month's incident in Palestine when you have these derailments it s gigantic accidents when we come back more Americans believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases it's becoming a major political problem for the GOP welcome back the Republican party has an abortion problem that is the unmistakable conclusion of this new National survey from the public religion Research Institute of 20 000 Americans it is easily the most comprehensive survey on abortion attitudes we have seen since the Dobbs decision this was able to do both National polling and 50 separate State polls two-thirds of Americans 64 say abortion should be legal in all or most cases this is an increase from 2010 from 55 and Republicans right now look like they're more out of Step just 36 percent favor legal abortion compared with 86 percent of Democrats and look at this number 68 of Independents the Republican number has not moved since 2010 but support among Democrats and independents has actually grown by double digits state by state you can see here solid majorities favor legal abortion in the six historically closest presidential States the Battleground States all of them but one over 60 and in the three most vulnerable Democratic held Senate seats look at those States Montana Ohio and West Virginia also with very high uh percentages on legal abortion alcardness what does the GOP do here there seem to be in a box on abortion well look uh everybody was thankful for Roe versus Wade Republicans and Democrats did want to touch it for 60 years for obvious reasons yeah now Donald Trump decided he wanted a dual evangelicals a favor and name three uh Supreme Court Justices who were committed to looking at this issue and now you know and now we've got the exposure and political explosion of having made that Dove's decision and in my opinion that's not the only one they're going to make the Supreme Court of the United States has become the Democrats best ally when you come to what's going on in spite of the fact that Republicans were rejoicing that they had a six to three majority camera they don't that's the thing they don't know what their position is now that's correct well because they don't actually agree there are some people like former vice president Mike Pence very likely presidential candidate who says we need to stand strong stand firm on abortion we need to take a strong position here then you have someone like Trump saying you know Republicans could be in real trouble here with this issue so it um it's one of the many things that probably won't be settled by 2024 but in terms of the identity of the Republican party it is a challenge because when you start talking about specifics when something has been taken away and then you start talking about specifics people actually care about this issue and that's what showed up in this poll is this just a spike in support and the White House I mean look I saw vice president Harris did an event earlier this week I mean this look I'm going to look back on 2022 and start to think that we're overrating the impact of the Trump candidates and underrating the impact of the abortions that's right I mean we saw the power of Dobbs in the midterm elections and I'm told the vice president is going to be out front on this issue you can expect that over the next two years in terms of the strategy within the Republican Party moving forward when you talk to Republicans one person said something so interesting to me which is that Roe was overturned and then the focus became on Banning abortion in the states instead of talking about maternal Health talking about adoption talking about what happens to these families another person said we're going to focus on the economy well that's a risky strategy what is the economy going to look like in the next year and a half and it'll be a test is the economy as motivating as the abortion issue and the abortion pill is going to be a huge issue there's a decision coming back to Texas that goes away yeah so right now 55 of all abortions are medical abortions with the abortion pill up from 45 just a couple of years ago and if this decision comes down the way people are expecting and then it's upheld at the U.S Supreme Court as people expect a lot of women who want to use the abortion pill are not going to be able to and they're going to be awfully upset about that I'm going to bring it back you're my Floridian pal here ow I sense Governor DeSantis is uncomfortable on on what to say about abortion right now because he he has the 15-week but I notice he doesn't want this session of the legislature to touch abortion does he no he doesn't he's been he shied away from this issue he's acknowledged from the outset it's not a winning issue he hasn't mentioned the issue and he's acting like hey I'm going here from Florida I don't need to get involved with this let this be a national issue so far it's working for him nobody's really uh taking him on primarily because the Democrat Party has imploded in Florida but if if I was them I would certainly try to put him in a corner but they haven't but with the John tester news this week and you see those abortion numbers I finally look I was not very I was pretty I'm pretty pessimistic about the Senate map for Democrats but suddenly you see those abortion numbers you know like I see the path for tester I see the path for brown that they can they can talk about this issue and and make it about uh people's rights and and not just libertarian argument yes book Chuck I think it's interesting Tim to your first point about the divisions within the Republican Party one of the biggest ones is about this 15-week National Abortion ban a lot of Republicans are saying Senator Lindsey Graham should have never introduced this because the whole point of Dobbs was to send this back to the state except he was actually looking for a compromise number here right I don't know if we'll ever Democrats will ever get to even 20 let alone 50. well and now every candidate every Republican candidate is going to have to weigh in on that all right before we go this week uh on the Chuck Todd cast I spoke with former ambassador to Russia Mike McFall Washington Post Stan Falls and after the broadcast today we're going to have a post game discussion with Jonathan alter talk a little bit about Jimmy Carter so subscribe to the check podcast by skating the QR code on your screen right now or just go to nbcnews.com podcast that's all for today thanks for watching we'll be back next week because if it's Sunday Let's Meet the Press [Music] [Music] thanks for watching our YouTube channel follow today's top stories and breaking news by downloading the NBC News app

2023-03-03 17:39

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