How can tourism help fix the world?

welcome to the future of tourism podcast i'm david peacock stop owning your own content young leaders are stepping up bring everyone to the table and imagine their world anew [Music] spring 2022 hamburg germany european cities marketing convenes their first in-person international conference and general assembly in two years it's a momentous event at the core of pressing complicated and essential questions about the future of tourism ecm has led the world in so many areas of destination management stakeholder engagement citizen civic alignment and of course sustainability and regeneration all of these are key topics at the march to 2022 general assembly but on the border of germany less than four hours away a different kind of crisis is unfolding nobody thought in 2022 that we would be dealing with an all-out war in the ukraine the theme for the conference is reunited destinations and the overarching question is this how can tourism help fix the world and how can we use dmos to be a catalyst for change i personally very much appreciate the leadership guidance and innovation ecm has brought to this industry the organization has always set its objectives far out on the horizon and that has in my opinion had a steady and positive influence on moving this industry forward our guests today are two of my favorite people in tourism ecm president and ceo of lebanon tourism petrus dusak anflavi dubuye ceo at city destination alliance by the way that's the new ecm name city destination alliance or city dna for short more on that later good morning patrick good morning flabby good morning everyone good morning good morning david good morning hey it's so great to have you both together in the same room this is a rarity a lot of talent on this call okay so where are you what's it like we are um in dijon in france at the core of city dna or ecm offices so we're going to be at the headquarters of the organization and we have the pleasure to welcome our dear president petra for a couple of days we are the heads in the quarters [Laughter] you're the heads and the quarters got it all right um let's let's talk about the spring conference it was incredibly important it was it was two years under lockdown two years of a lot of thinking and strategizing all of the stuff you were working on before covet came home to roost the idea is that you were moving forward stakeholder engagement the idea of civic alignment the idea of sustainability regeneration they were almost catapulted into a new urgency petra in the opening in the opening of the documentation for the for the event you said it's time for a new beginning in urban tourism that plays heavily into the renaming of uh european cities marketing but tell me what did you mean it's time for a new beginning in urban tourism well this past few years not only past two years of the pandemic but even before that um it kind of we we were kind of really fast driving towards the change in tourism in to be completely honest in both negative and positive ways in positive we were more and more um aware of that we need to do a thing more sustainable more regenerative way in negative everything went too fast too high too quantity wise so these were two concepts that didn't really go well together and the pandemic as horrible as it was uh gave us this golden opportunity to really re refresh our everyday not only working but also being it's it's uh really start to it's really a great way to start thinking of um uh of uh regen how do we regenerate us you know not only uh do you think in sustainable way because you know that would mean to put to simplify that we would neutralize what we are uh doing in our everyday lives with traveling working and so forth but that we would bring als through our work through tourism um uh something more something additional to our well-being you know to regen to regenerate us uh to but to be less a philosophical we need to do better than we used to do uh two years uh two and more years ago and now we have a really really great opportunity uh to take not not to wipe everything clean and start from scratch no that would not be very wise but to take the great practices from before and to upgrade them and on top of that to wipe out the the bed the the the not sustainable or not regenerated uh ways that we were using before the pandemic started flabby that that makes a lot of sense to me in the context that you and i often talk about tourism in the world they're the tools that we need to create a more holistic more regenerative um tourism sector whether it's his destinations whether it's it's players in in those verticals those tools in essence exist they're out there in the world what we're finding is they're they're in little pockets around the world or little pockets around europe and we talk you and i have to talk about you need to amplify those practices and i think that's been a central tenet of vcm is your sharing of best practices and i and that's what i saw in hamburg was once again ecm it was really great to do it in person but stepping up and sharing those practices when you look at that new beginning in urban tourism and the context of the march event what what was the what was the overriding thought you had as you put together that conference um really uh we we wanted to um because during the pandemic over those two years we kept on you know sharing and then we we had that power of community you know communication series keeping the members all together and the need of connection has not been so important you know over the last and over the last two years and in hamburg it was really the goal was really to re unite you know those members all our 115 members it is together to really think about okay what do we do today what are the what has covete change in our in our daily you know professional lives and what is the future going to be and also in this evolving context and as you were mentioning i mean no one was expecting this this war in ukraine and this was also uh we had the chance and the opportunity to have two representatives from the eve convention bureau and with just office you know there we could share how they really um transform their tourist office or their congress center into helping and you know those you know local population but also you know being and creating a kind of press media center for the journalists there because information needs to be available so it was a very um emotional session where we were all you know measuring in life how how you know the war was impacting us and i have to say the emotion in the room was tangible and we have never felt so united under the european and ukrainian flag you know and there so it was very very deep moment uh in in in the um i i was so completely honored to be in that room at that moment so you know on the way to hamburg expecting another great ecm conference first one years program was great um it was it's always intellectually challenging at the same time fun and funny and enjoyable but the the ukraine piece really did get me i don't know how you managed to add that in to the agenda so so quickly and so effectively um for for the people listening there was a room of 200 of the senior execs in european um cities marketing in a room talking live link to um i think it was levi ukraine who who had you know who would have been there with us at the conference had things been different but they took the opportunity to really run down a list of priorities that the country needed it was an amazing shift you said that you said yourself lobby it was awesome to watch them say let us get through this agenda we want to tell you what's going on it was a country mobilizing all its resources tourism included to share messaging there was a moment in that room those two brave women talking from the from that that war zone where i looked around and i i don't think there was a dry eye in the place people were you know really really moved by it but i think that speaks to that whole idea of a new era of tourism and i often say you know tourism done well shares people and places and ideas uh authentically and if you ask me that's the opposite of war and i think i think you managed that in the room at ecm was to to point that as cities align as they become peers as they share cultures they can't they can't war with each other that was an amazing thing but let's let's go back to that statement though it's a new beginning for urban tourism that's a very specific choice petra it's urban tourism you haven't said that before at ecm you've used the word cities but this is a very specific focus tell me about the focus um it's you know we we when when we met uh in hamburg we we we did not only reunite we reunited with purpose and that was also to enlighten um uh among other things also to enlighten of uh uh what are we actually uh focusing on um we as dmos you know the m really heavily transformed from men from marketing our destinations to managing them and that came out throughout our uh conference but also before that's how our new brand was actually born you know it's the places where we we should we we always need to ask ourselves are the places where we live are they also um uh destinations to us locals because uh i mean obviously we need to first into uh we need to take first into consideration the locals everyone who lives in the place because they're the best ambassadors and they're the ones who are setting up the um the the the atmosphere of the of the destination so yes are we living in the cities are we living in the destinations are we managing our cities or destinations are managing ourselves are we managing tourists or visitors who are coming to us uh last but not least we reminded ourselves the thing that we took too much for granted before um and that is that tourism itself in general is so multi-layered industry and it gives you know celery and bread to so many different branches between leisure and between business tourism organizations and whoever is linked to them and uh to to so many different families so um we so it's actually and not to mention that the uh these the cities are always um the center of uh of the metropolitan areas or regions uh plus everything the cities are cradle of um of of prosperous future of you know the the the the basically everyone uh all the um warning cities petrus um nobody would question your ardent defense of the fact that cities that are great places to live and work are great places to visit i i totally totally share that with you um you said it best to me almost a year and a half ago when we started having that discussion about dmo versus dmmo and actually i quoted you an article this week that i wrote when i asked about that transition to management you just said david most of us have just moved on which i think is a great place to start in that context flabby most of us have just moved on the ecm membership demonstrated in hamburg an incredible receptiveness capacity capacity and readiness for this shift didn't they there was a lot of discussion in that room let's let's take the discussion towards the new brand but talk to me about the state of readiness i don't think there's a european cities marketing member now who isn't you know a acting well outside the just the normative scope of marketing and they're all doing destination development they're all doing building as you point out petra when the pandemic shut things down people really saw a disparity from from from prior you know prior assets and prior resources coming in i don't know that we could have done that without the pandemic i think that had a big impact we were still we were struggling to put the measurement systems in place that would help us quantify the impact of tourism nature gave us a great big turn the tap off and we got to see it immediately so very quickly most destinations pivoted flabby when you see that the european city's marketing um the city destination alliance membership they're ready for that change aren't they you we got that in hamburg didn't we yeah definitely i mean that was also our impression and we were really really pleased with that how um i mean why this is mainly because we have gone through a very detailed and sorrow you know process of redefining who we are redefining what our core values what are we here for and etc so we did that through various you know ways uh we were serving our members we were discussing with them interviewing them and then we did different series of workshops with different target groups those members that are involved in our knowledge groups those members were ceos and have a more strategic vision so we had different opinions different um different directions where we'd better go and we could see that some of them wanted us to be more on advocacy role and more like okay going forward you know compared to what we do now and going to the next level while still you know continuing to share practical takeaways and practical you know knowledge as well so through that process then we also were very careful about you know all those key words that were that way you know continuously coming back and etc and we were like okay who are we are we like a consortium are we like a forum an association in alliance and et cetera and the way that you know lions became obvious because we are not just like network sharing among ourselves with an internal perspective but an alliance means that you go forward you go outside with a clear message and we want to have that message clear and the message is just what petra was mentioning is the role of the dm memos and demons like um like like the key central point you know in the destination and with a clear vision to improve the visitor economy basically but if i may decide just to because you you you you uh through the open question without the false modesty i would say that our members or the city destinations uh the european destinations we're not ready to make the transition we are the ones making it already the rest of the world doesn't really not only talk but do towards the regenerative way we are very pushing that you know so it's uh it's it's um it's it's a shift that is happening now a very um uh in a in a very very very strong or how should i put in a very powerful way in europe and it's just going you know further the the this all-inclusiveness in our destinations so there's there's a famous canadian uh media um critic named marshall mcluhan and i think he said it best the medium is the message at hamburg co-creation was the order of the day we sat down in groups there was a plenty of in session and group work even the sustainability trial that we did it was all co-created that came through in spades you actually had a couple co-creation entities groups on on site that's the new ecm that's the new city destination alliance isn't it's a co-created future um you talked about you know bringing them along yes you are leading again yes you've put that spot well out on the horizon 10 years out where will we be in sustainability and i think we did a great job of articulating it's up to us where we will be in sustainability but that co-creation piece was really important to this conference um i know we're coming up on to the autumn conference which will be in tel aviv i'm hoping that same spirit of of engagement and co-creation pervades that conference what guy what can you tell me a little bit about it guys we're preparing even an upgrade right of course we are we are the um actually the television conference will be in october from the 19th to the 21st of october and the idea is to talk about tourism in transit we were in hamburg you know making the status of where where we are as a dmos and what is the purpose of being united and now it's more like how do we go into that transition and how is tourism evolving and how how about you know short-term rentals how about all those tourism issues and just to name a few and so we are shaping the programmers as we speak yeah in the transit to which stops are should we just pass and where do we stop and make the place better well and that's her that's a really interesting uh jumping off point for a discussion about tools and application as i said i think there's a real um forward thinking readiness flavio and and petra you both point out that ecm is still fulfilling its leadership role not every destination is ready to step into sustainability equity diversity and inclusion and regeneration and they look to their they look to their advocacy body to help them with that but by the same token you're attracting a bit of a world audience now and i'm going to include myself in that audience who has been looking at your models and practices for a decade and said you know this is great work and this is an organization that's completely committed to sharing this great work for the good of the industry so i'm excited to see it being in tel aviv i'm excited to to be there i'm seeing you picking up dribs and drabs of international people who start coming to your conferences and all of a sudden they're not from europe i don't think it's probably less apparent to you because you're you're inside it but let's let's talk about the name change that in that context then because globally the idea of city destinations alliance makes a lot of sense to me it's there's a there's a there's a selling suggestion of of sharing in there of working together tell me about the new name let's have let's people listening here are from all over the world they've known european cities marketing for for a long time and you were there before it was even called that i believe um but what's tell us about city destinations alliance tell us about the brand and tell us about that point on the horizon you're shooting for now what's your 10-year horizon um first of all um i mean we we we have three words city destinations and limes i mean city and petrol just mentioned the importance and the relevance of cities i'm not gonna be put down again um the destination as such is also a key word for us because we um we work as destination it's not only the city but it's also the surrounding and it's also you know managing managing the crowds managing the inhabitants you know inside and connecting everything and connecting exactly and the alliance is also what i mentioned before is going beyond the network and doing some advocacy and towards european union and towards the rest of the world as well the rest of the industry you know and um this is one of our um main roles that we're going to be part of it is going to be part of our new strategy that we are you know shaping as we speak but also it's the what is really important to us is beside this really great ever basically when we introduced it uh through the general assembly to the members and we told them the whole process what the thinking behind it was not needed a lot of words that everyone really loved it because they could and that is really important to us that everyone could find themselves in it but apart from the uh the the the actual nasty destinations alliances uh with also what we really love is the shortened the acronym of it city dna you know because we for years we already felt that european cities marketing is not it does not grasp the everything that we do you know or that we stand for or that we uh develop so um city dna it's actually really um uh is is is is uh um hiding in itself this marketing part because this is what we do every city wants to display their own dna that's one of the marketing most important tools so i love the city dna contraction it looks beautiful in print but it also speaks to something that the three of us and all our peers have been working on for decades which is authentic destination development has to be based in the dna of a place in its people now in the odd case you can build that dna and it can be successful for the most part what we're seeing that's been really successful in the last decade is this idea of the amplification of authentic and then think you know thankfully so i mean as we deal with um reconciliation here in canada you can imagine that the authentic story of that has to be part of that and i think we're seeing a lot of a lot of that around the world which is wow our authentic stories they they may not read like um you know roger kipling but they're ours and they speak to who we are and that's what we want to share and that's that's what we want to be known for and i see a lot of that happening around the world i see especially a lot of it happening in europe i mean petra you know how much i love ljubljana and it's not just because you're there it's it's a remarkable city that just is a great homage to the idea that if you plan if you build alliance around a vision people will join you and i mean that's the future of tourism isn't it really that dmos dmmos do's whatever you want to call them they cannot do everything but they have a catalytic role they need to shift those resources to to amplifying and sharing that dna and then somehow in some sense they need to play the rna they need to help help repair the dna they need to help play a catalytic role in in asset development and things like that we're seeing a lot more of that i do believe that a lot of that thinking was was you know took place all over the world but i thought it was captured and articulated really well by ecm can we count on that same level of of uh sharing and commitment to to making making the world a better place from the new city dna definitely and we're not just saying that because it's uh it it's the right thing to answer to your direct question but it's because we really believe in what we do and uh we really believe that we are the ones who are holding the keys to uh making i mean the world needs to get better period and tourism is one of the rare really positive industries that brings so many different levels together on a positive note it can only also be among other the peacemaker i mean theorism is such a broad universe that it's a powerful powerful thing and we really believe in that and that's why we are going to you know just go further with it just just don't do not i'm i'm there i'm on for the do not stop right yeah um flavi it's been amazing to watch the evolution of ecm it's it's completely organic it mirrors the best in the industry i want to thank you both for popping in today i know how super busy you are i'm looking forward to seeing you in the fall um if you get over here i know i know it's it's a busy time for all of us and then by all means let's sit down and have this chat again but it's a great pleasure to speak to both you i i hold you in the organization in such high regard thanks for being here thank you david it was a real pleasure of being there and we are really happy on you know this collaboration with you and with the symbolic team and we hope that as well strengthened over the years to come only together we can be as great as we are you guys and us right you guys have a great day youtube thank you thank you you

2022-08-05 19:06

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