Defense has tense exchange with Ronnie Crosby in Alex Murdaugh trial: full video
if you would state your name for the record and spell your last name please uh Ronnie Crosby c-r-o-s-b-y good morning Mr Crosby good morning just want to go over a few things very quickly in reply to some of the uh defense case and the first thing I want to ask you is you had previously testified about your close relationship with Paul didn't you uh yes I did all right and over the years did you ever have call to ride around the property with with Paul yours or his um uh more on my property but some uh on more one or more occasions at Moselle as well what if anything would y'all carry when y'all rode around the property why this is about Paul yes sir this will be in specific response to the defendant's testimony uh and in his statements as well I can be specific I don't want to do a speaking response yeah but uh I can ask another question and maybe maybe put it in Focus you're on okay all right uh you heard uh prior testimony that uh you don't go around looking for hogs in the daytime because they're nocturnal from the defendant did you not are you familiar that that was what was said objection your honor if it's based on what he's heard or seen I mean it's just a a comment made to him whereas we're going to go into delve into the appropriate way to hunt hogs day or night I mean this is not proper worldwide object the rule all right you want me to yeah if you don't mind asking a question again sure uh all right first question is have you gone riding around the property with your property or the Moselle property with Paul before um I have all right and what if anything would y'all carry when you would go riding the property I believe the only time I rode would Paul was uh would have been looking riding looking for Hogs and then more so on my property all right and what if anything was you carry when y'all were looking for Hogs riding with Paul on his property not Moselle Jack is a room well people who have hogs on their property uh as a general rule you would always take a rifle with you uh be it day or night because you never know when you're going to see Hogs and and because they are such a nuisance as I spoke to earlier in my testimony you always want to be you know prepared to to shoot them so you would generally have some type of rifle and and we uh with you a long gun ner he's giving an opinion he's not been qualified as an expert I'm Jack silver ruled all right um you've had plenty of experience in killing hogs on your property yes I would disagree with Mr harpootley and I am pretty much the expert about killing Hogs all right and you've had plenty of opportunity to go hunting report Action your honor I apologize to the witness and you have plenty of opportunity to go hunting with Paul or have him hunt on your project yes I've been with him and he's been on my property many more times I didn't go with him every time he was on my property but that's the general rule that you would have a rifle of some sort Paul as this jury's been told over and over was fond of that 300 Blackout I've been with him while he had it I usually use some other type of uh AR framed uh gun to shoot Hogs a 223. well two two three or uh uh 6.5 Creedmoor which is on a AR-10 frame would uh is it common though to carry your rifle and look for hogs in the daytime and just Seahawks in the daytime um yes um you don't always see them sometimes night's better if you're using a night vision scope but uh I've killed hundreds of hogs in the daytime uh riding is it's just something because there's such a nuisance in the low country and really across the state right now and across the South that uh we have a rule that you don't ride the property without a rifle because you want to try to eliminate as many hogs as you can and we also trap them to your observation did Alec have a good relationship with the local law enforcement community my observation was had a very good relationship with uh probably better than the rest of us saving his father um did you on multiple occasions go over in great detail uh Alex original story as to what he did on the night of the murders on more than one occasion we discussed his story as I testified to uh I don't know how many weeks ago that was but it was a while and what if anything did the defendant tell you about whether or not he checked Paul and Maggie before calling 9-1-1 my understanding of what he told me was that he uh checked them before he called 9-1-1 and was he clear on that point to you that was clear to me when was the first time you've heard the defendant's latest story admitting that he was in fact at the kennels minutes before the victims were killed I haven't watched uh all of this trial uh like a lot of people have but when I heard that um Elliott was taking the stand I believe it was last Thursday I did set up my workstation so that I could watch his testimony and it would have been when he told told you that he was at a kennels was the first time that I'd ever heard done did Alec ever tell you that he thought the bookcase had anything to do with consistent with what Alec told uh in his testimony he specifically told me that and told us that he did not believe that anyone on the boat had anything to do with it I don't recall any other conversations with him related to the boat case but but he specifically did not believe and I think that's what he said last week that anybody on the boat but as far as anybody outside you know there was a lot of speculation going on but I don't remember ever discussing that with him and with him right because we wouldn't know I mean everything Beyond was you know I I don't know it would have been speculation but but I didn't have a conversation with him about that did you ever have a conversation with the defendant about Barrett bullware needing money because of his illness and you're referring to uh yes I did uh in um I believe it would have been June of 2018.
uh Barrett and uh Elle were very what I consider to be very close improper reply um yes sir he uh the defendant during cross-examination was specifically asked about uh that this particular transaction and that we're about to discuss and uh Mr Crosby's testimony would be in response to what the defendant said about uh the money and as much as he tried to imply that well Barrett kind of owed me money anyway justification for him stealing money from one of his best friends he did not ask him about a conversation he had with Mr Crosby about that money that's this isn't proper reply this is going off on another tangent over all the objection can you tell us about that conversation please across me yes um in the in if my Year's wrong but I believe because I didn't know exactly what you're going to ask me and I can go back and look at documents but I'm sure it's in one of these exhibits when that occurred the the materials that Miss secondary put in I believe in June of 2018 uh Barrett who was a good friend of Alex uh a lot closer to me I think he they were in my perception very close friends but I had become friends with him and and had done a couple of real estate transactions with him that summer I received a call from his son-in-law Barrett was in the Mayo Clinic um with stage four colon cancer I do know for a fact that he was in a Mayo Clinic uh suffering being treated for stage four colon cancer and I received a call as to whether I could help um Barrett Financial honor hearsay a call um because his wife did not have enough money to stay Barrett had some Waterfront Lots um action your honor hearsay all this material came from somebody else Jackson I do I do know this from firsthand knowledge Mr Waters um I had already uh bought a lot from him but anyway he had a lot that he asked if I would buy so that they would have money to be able to for his wife to stay down in Jacksonville while he was receiving cancer treatments and I had a conversation with uh Alec about that tell us about the conversation you had with Alec about that please I just told him man it's it's bad you know Barrett's looks like he's going to die and he did die in September of that year um and he acknowledged it and he said that it was good what I was doing um for Barrett because he he knew that he was in bad financial shape and and obviously bad health and uh you're obviously a member of this law firm and your review of the records as all this came to light was that did that conversation take place around the time that the defendant was stealing some of Barrett's money yes uh through this investigation uh that y'all have heard about into the financial stuff starting in uh early September of 2021 we started going through a lot of files and as part of that process somewhere I determined that in June of 2018 I believe and I can't tell you the exact figure but I believe it was uh 70 70 something thousand dollar insurance check uh that was came to the firm on behalf of Mr boulware that uh didn't go through the firm it was just tape ellic took it that same month that we had that conversation and then later there was some more money taken after he died we'll show you what's been marked as exhibit 575 States 575 see if you recognize that is that Dave is that one of the sled agents you know I recognize her is that David Williams no I'm asking you I believe that's David Williams okay your honor this time I'd offer States 575 and 11. action relevance what is the relevance that when he had that initial interview with Dave and on June 8th uh uh you know as he manufactured his decision to lie about such a crucial fact it was because he thought that David Williams was the guy interviewing him this is simply a picture of David Williams Jerry can assess the legitimacy of that plane never ever said David Williams he said David that's the record remember that guy it's the minute of objection can I have the only place nice that's who you recognize as David Williams yes um I've I didn't know him I got to know him through this investigation and uh I do believe he was the agent that was involved in the uh the case with Mr Greg Chief Greg Alexander that was referenced clearly not David Owen correct well that's not David Owen um have you ever tried cases with Ellen I handled a lot of cases with Alec I believe the only case I tried to jury what was actually here here in this courtroom Did You observe him being able to get emotional during that closing argument um yes as a couple months ago when we talked and and you asked me what kind of lawyer Alec was and I told you he was a good lawyer and one of the things that I think I explained to you was that he was a a theatrical type presence in the courtroom and and he could get very emotional doing closing arguments in front of a jury thank you please answer any questions the defenseman um I hate to go here but let's talk about hog hunting which I know nothing about okay you might not want to go there then I've been here so long I think I probably do need to learn how to hog hunt um but I guess my first question is this you did you ever ride Moselle without did you ride around Moselle with Alec probably uh I know I dove hunted there so I I believe I rode on a ranger but I don't ever remember doing much riding with with elec uh at Moselle but I know at Dove hunted there and sure I rode in a ranger or some type of ATV would Alec but I don't have a specific when you're riding around dove hunting you got a gun with you right right you would would you take a shotgun to hunt up yes would you take an AR weapon too no why I mean them Hogs are out there right well they don't usually come in a dove feel when you're shooting dove so I don't know I just you you just wouldn't uh Mr Harpoon uh typically I mean but daytime you're riding around the property got a shotgun you got a slug in that shotgun or using spur shot oh you would shoot um bird shot okay so if a hog came up nothing he could do if a hog came into a dove field with a bunch of Dove Hunters they would shoot at him regardless maybe you're on your way to the Duffield you know the duffield's not right next to the house is it uh yes yes is right within 100 a few couple few hundred yards boarded by the swamp the swamps on one end of it yeah okay and where do the hogs live during the day primarily well I can live in a swamp they can live in a bay you know it could be anywhere but largely in a swamp the swamp so a hog could have come out of that swamp yes and you were unarmed as I said if a hog came in a dove field near somebody dove hunting they would probably shot it with bird shot with that kill a hog if if it was close enough but but unlikely but unlikely so you have in fact ridden a round moves out without a gun to kill a hog appropriate gun to kill hog well yes if I was going over to the dove field I wouldn't have one you've never ridden as Paul and Alec did that afternoon just looking at different like where deers deer what do they call them what are they plan stuffed up or deer food plots yeah um or um looking around at uh how these fruit trees were doing remember the the Snapchat video I've never uh done that with Alec and that that I recall but I could have in the past but I don't have a specific recollection or whether they planted some corn for I guess use corn for deer and ducks um you do but you don't plant them in the same spot no I I get that one would be near a pond or in a pond or a round upon correct they had a duck pond right and then the others would just be out where the deer might come out and try to feed right look we don't need to go there yeah I don't think yeah okay but um you've never rode around like that with them looking at different plantings and that you that you remember I don't have a specific recollection of doing that with Alex okay but and would you you're not telling this jury that they would not do they would not they would do that without a blackout they could I mean would it bother you or offend you or scare you that they're riding around the property during the daytime without the blackout no I I was answering questions about what's normal if you were looking for Hogs or if we're just riding my property um I mean most people carry a gun but no I have no idea what they had with them or what they were doing and I think Al testified they were looking for signs of hogs because you could come back it'd be a lot easier to find those hogs at night right they come out more likely at night than they do during the day they can become nocturnal when they have a lot of pressure but I like as I said before I've shot I mean we've shot a lot of hogs in the daytime you can ride up on them and and yeah but does anybody has anybody testified they were out looking to shoot Hogs that afternoon I don't know what all the testimonies been in this this trial all I'm saying is there seems to be some implication they would not ride around the property without an AR or some sort of blackout you can't testify to that right I cannot okay so let's let's talk a little bit about what you heard from Alec the Knight of June 7th um you would agree with me that um let's ask it this way what your practice is primarily personal injury is that correct it is catastrophic injuries well I handle a lot of catastrophic injury cases cases for instance where a husband and wife were riding down the road and hit by a tractor trailer by way of example maybe you could give me something more specific husbands killed wife's severely injured that kind of thing yeah now is it your experience in people who undergo maybe they're not hurt but their loved one is hurt that may be killed um in that situation that's a traumatic experience for the surviving person correct to see their loved one killed yes okay and so when you sit down with those folks and be you know begin to recount with them what happened that night oftentimes I do a little work like you do oftentimes those folks misremember or get times wrong or because they went through this very traumatic experience and the closer to that experience the more likely they are to get some things wrong times for instance is that your experience they can but I also find that people who have been involved in traumatic experiences try to be uh very uh try to be very accurate with the details because they know it's important to me representing them and typically you don't go out to the scene of the crime and interview or the scene of the action interview them that night do you typically uh well typically you don't because you know you don't know it that it's happened um sometimes in the old days they used to do that but they don't do that anymore right that would be very rare so you're seeing them in your office Weeks Later it can be can be days can be weeks okay and in that atmosphere um it's a little more conducive to them being as accurate as possible Right it it is but you know oftentimes we also have the benefit of recorded interviews when there's a catastrophic injury typically the uh Highway Patrol will get try to interview people as quickly as they can and they will uh we oftentimes have it on video off a dash cam or sometimes body cam but and a lot of times written statements and written statements from Witnesses saw it happen correct and so when you interview those people they have the benefit of reviewing whatever you have to help them get a better recollection of what happened correct that's that's correct okay so the instance you're talking about where um Alec told you he turned them over before um he made the 9-1-1 call whatever it was I'm not quite sure before I think with what you said um if that would be inconsistent with something he says later on after having reviewed other people's statements looking at video um that would not be unusual in your business I think you just said it would not be unusual correct you you're trying to take me somewhere that you probably don't want to the question withdraw the question let me ask you this question maybe let's get to the to the media matter here have you had to come out of pocket to pay back the money he stole yes and if you how much I I don't tell me you don't know well we're still counting Mr Harpoon how much have you paid so far we have had to uh borrow Millions to pay back how much have you had to come out of pocket well when you bore it you got to pay it back and I couldn't tell you how much has exactly been paid back uh as we sit here today but yes and if you're implying that I would come in here and somehow shade truth in any way because of that that's I would take pie offense with that Mr Harpoon concerned about your high offense are you angry at him for stealing your money I have no feeling one way or the other about Alec Bernard portraying you and stealing your money you're but I could look beyond that is sustained it's not a question I'm jurious to disregard the argument you are not angry with Alec Murdock I have had anger with him extreme anger Mr Hart Putin because of what he did to my Law Firm my partners my client his clients our clients what he did to his family what he's did to so many people yes I experienced a lot of anger but you can't walk around with anger you have to find a way to deal with it and move forward and I have done that and if you suggest you are dead wrong if you think I've come in here and told this jury something because of money when we we're talking about two people who were brutally murdered then you're you're headed in the wrong direction do you think he did it I don't have I don't have an opinion I don't have the benefit of the materials you have well let me ask you this you're angry with them stole millions of dollars from your firm you admit your firm's not even called the Murdoch firm anymore right it is not I don't admit that I'm angry right now I told you I've gotten away from that I don't have any feelings because you can't walk around with anger I have been very very angry about it because of what he's done and he did it in a very callous way of very deceitful way and you carry no I'm sorry maybe I just saw some anger there were you angry just a moment ago no you keep trying to push a question and don't want to accept my answer which is what it is that you've just given your your Zen your Nirvana your whatever the our objection Mr Harpoon I came to the scene of these murders to support my partner I was there I saw things that hadn't even been talked about in this courtroom I was there I I love Paul very much I thought I knew who Alex was I did not and it's hard to to to you might not understand but it's just it's hard to to walk around with with anger and hard to even walk around with it when it's with somebody who you didn't know and didn't understand so you you you might have have been in that way but you know I've got a function I've got a family I got to move on with life were you aware that he went to rehab in 2017. I was not other than what what was said uh Bob Alec in this courtroom he never were aware he had a drug problem I was unaware okay sort of and and if I would have been known I would have tried to help him you indicated that he could be emotional in trying a case correctly he he could be he could he was uh theatric much like his father and grandfather who had a courtroom theatrics uh and he could be emotional any of your other partners that way Johnny Parker no Johnny's quite opposite Johnny's very uh iconic I believe yeah he doesn't show emotion who any nobody else in your firm is theatric or emotional not to Alex level you don't know any other lawyers in the state that go to that level you're asking me a question right now I don't know you might um yourself I don't know I don't I don't know what other lawyers do I'm usually uh trying cases against defense attorneys so I don't get to see plaintiff's lawyers anymore well I want to thank you for let me ask you one last thing this bulwear guy that he stole all the money from where remember him yes I remember how much money you steal from him do you remember he stole 70 something thousand in June of 2018 Mr Bullard died in September I believe of 2018 I believe another 270 something thousand after Mr beauware's death sometime in uh you know around February of 2019. have you and your partners paid Mr bullwear as a state or his folks back yes I met with them personally and even though it's cost you your firm and it's cost millions of dollars to you you have forgiven him I didn't say I forgave him you're just not angry about it I said I have no feelings and I had to work on that Mr Harpoon you know it when you go through what we've gone through not only the trauma losing people we loved in a double homicide seeing the out aftermath and then learning that someone you've worked with for more than 20 years had been stealing for throughout a period of time and deceiving us there's a lot of emotion there and yes it was bad in the fall of 2021 and I have found a way to have no feelings it's not forgiveness it's just I don't have anything here today you're not angry at him at all I'm not angry if if I raise my voice it's only because of the implication that you were trying to indication that you might not want to help him in front of this jury here today because because let me finish the question because he destroyed your firm he stole millions of dollars you had to pay back he deceived you you all that's away and is not influencing your your testimony here today at all if you'd answer that yes or no then you can explain all those things happened and it does not influence my testimony I take the oath that I just took very seriously and if you got any indication that anything I said was inaccurate I'll be glad to to address it with you well the jury can judge that thank you how long did you know Alan since the late 90s and knowing what you know now was he able to look you in your eye and lie convincing to you day in and day out he did and was he able to look juries in the eye and display emotion that is not appropriate indirect and it's leading the injection sustained Mr harpoudland asked you about some of the things that you have gone through and is your issue with Mr harputlian's questioning the implication that you would come in and shade things in front of this jury leading what is your concern with Mr harperlin's questioning of you that you can you express that to the jury please all that he just went through with you sitting up on the stand having to deal with this what is your problem with what he was trying to say well I fortunately will start with I took an oath to tell the truth um but we as lawyers also have Oaths and obligations to a court and and it goes a lot deeper than just that oath uh we we are bound by rules of professional conduct ethical rules um that I take very seriously as a lawyer um to my knowledge I enjoy a very good reputation as far as being a person of integrity and that's what I took issue with is him and attempting because he cannot impugn my integrity Fair would you take a 22 if you went out looking for hugs oh possibly a 22 magnum which is a long rifle which is the long rifle yes you take a long rifle not a pistol is that correct yeah I I would never I'm not a good shot with a pistol but I would never take a pistol and what was Paul's favorite gun for shooting Hogs with I knew he uh he always had a 300 Blackout but I don't know if he shot him with anything else thank you nothing further think further I'm sorry I just can't leave this alone it's a 300 Blackout that's in evidence his favorite the 300 Blackout with a thermal scope on it yes okay thank you
2023-03-07 16:17
