TopDev TV - Ep11 | Sau Silicon Valley, tôi chọn dạy code ở Việt Nam
Since. Jacob and what's a lie but everybody in Manila and you type in your name. I. Get back, see helpful, don't look like, you're you mind like a family, again hey joking. It is available to little woman Jermaine but wake up biennial, house just a few little son come on, ya little. Is. In, fact a I'm or by game a compiler skincare but, this is haggle and, case. You talk to the fish air but from without young and coming at home fun so if I need to play a young like up and compare yeah yeah Camila. Coming. Up please company some down with you again how new but however I did it in a few. Minutes we have caught a little. Cold school, come home have, a cuppa tea home the most you Harper listen take a bank if I y'all come. On I say, anyway this how concerning, is you know it's not hot like it's, not Memorial you bye-bye, happening. It's easy now ready well about a week ma'am but, I don't a product is alumni October, and territory, see. Overcoat, powder or cold school so yeah come on the Cabana by communicative. Till you see WH. And so you can find the word subscribe, annually but, I got everybody hands on the car what non-communicative. Banga but, take a pickup and throw in a nap. Good, afternoon mr., Lee. How's. It going today. It's. Going well how are you yeah. So. First. I would say thank you for sending your previous time for joining connectivity today I know you're like losing. Men but lots of stuff out there but yeah you can like, spend time with us all every appreciate, that so, I, playing with my kick off this episode, with some like, personal, information, so, could you introduce a, bit about yourself to the audience, hi. Yeah, my name is Charles, Lee, maybe. It need be in the me his name is Sam, I'm. Korean, but I was born in the US and that's, where I studied computer science and, I worked for many years as a software developer, in Silicon, Valley but, today, I've been living in Vietnam for almost. Five years and. Here. I like to play. Basketball go, for runs and I have a dog, a little. Poodle, named, join join. CUDA. Laughs, so. When. You mentioned, you are have. Been a much, better player so I wonder, why you stopped your engineering, career and decide to teach, people instead.
Yeah. I. Would, say you never stop being an engineer I think being engineer, is like the way of life so, it's like you can never stop being an explorer or an adventurer. But. Yeah I don't program, as much that used to and the. Real answer is that it's. Because I find myself really, connected, to the mission of teaching so. As an engineer um. I feel, super grateful. For all the cool problems, I got to work on so I love to build things I love to solve problems but. When. I started teaching for the first time it was where I love, the problem so how do you teach someone something effectively, also. I felt like it was a really important problem to solve I was really connected to so. The feeling you get when you, teach. Them someone something for the first time it's really really good and something, couldn't find and like e-commerce or, gaming or the other startups that worked at. Talking. To you I think it's only three, leagues between the engineering oh yeah, yeah. So. What. Are the lessons that, you have learned from, me Charles, LLC. Yeah. So before coming to Vietnam I worked, on a lot of different things so. I, quit my day job many many years ago now and Charles. Lee LLC, was just the name I gave for the various startups, I worked on during, my time and. I think the biggest thing I learned throughout. That time it's. Really not that easy to start your own company so, starting. Company is not about the ideas there's, there's so many things that go into it there's a team your. Timing has to be good your, marketing has to be good your market has to be good so, I think the thing I learned was how hard it is to build your own business. I. Wish. I mean I think it's I'm really happy at that time, that learning, about myself I wish. I had learned those lessons a, little bit faster but. Glad I learned them nonetheless. I. Have. Known that before starting, cold school you have work for bleak companies and startup like, an international company, Volkswagen. Electronic, research lab or low frequency which. You are acquired, by a Walmart, lab and a Sarah so, can you clarify the.
Differences, Between working. In big companies like that and working in startups. Yeah. That's a great question so I think there definite, pros and cons to, big companies and small companies actually. Although I work mostly in start-up so the past almost, 10 years now I really, enjoyed my time working, at big companies because. At a big company it's a lot easier to have a huge impact so. I remember like my first job was at palm which, that time was a leading smartphone manufacturer. This, is just before the iPhone we, won the leading smartphone manufacturers. It was such a cool feeling to me to realize that code. I was working on would, be shipped out to millions of phones worldwide, and, you can go to the store and buy something that I worked on so. I really enjoyed that feeling, and working in a big company you have a chance to do those things, that. Same thing is true for Volkswagen. Worked, on cars, worked. At Walmart so, websites, that people use every day so, that impact is big, but. I would say like the, thing that eventually I, liked, more about startups his, ability to have impact more, quickly so. The story I always tell and set up Volkswagen, I worked. On a prototype, feature for a navigation, system, and. I was really cool was this AI based, navigation, system. And in. 2008. It. Kind of got pre-approved and, it. Was slated to ship in 2018. So. That was like a 10 year period to see, my thing that I wrote go, into production and. At the time I was so young that 10 years seemed like forever so. There's no way it could wait that long and that's what really drove me in startups where you can build something in like the next day people. Can see it. Like. Bigger, impact, my startup get you like quicker, impact yeah. Their other present comes to you but that's yeah that's the one I talked about okay. So we gonna king the topic a little bit so. I would like to know more about your range higher court, school can, you like we gonna start with the basic level so one is cold school and why did you find it ey Vietnam. Yeah. So I cut her school is the best cutting school in Vietnam that's like what we like to say so, what we do is we teach people how, to start careers in IT. So. We have both full-time, and part-time three. Month and six months programs and, web development and machine learning so. Anyone who wants to learn IT to, become a programmer to get into this very hot high demand field can, come take classes at cutter school and learn, from the best. The. Question, of why Vietnam yeah I think it's. A bit personal so I was like because I was here and, when I first came to Vietnam five, years ago I didn't have this idea this. Our curse school I didn't research all the different coding schools but. People, were, interested in my experience, from being, an engineer in Silicon Valley but, also, interested. In like learning, new things so, they would ask me all these questions I quickly, realized there's no course for, there were at the time there were very few places where you could learn programming.
So. Five years ago I, launched. An iOS, class which. Is the iPhone programming class just, for fun to see if any would anyone would sign up and. We had a lot of people sign up right away it's. Pretty amazing that can't demand was super, exciting and it really motivating, me to like, try teach a really good class on. How to speak more slowly because, I speak too fast all, these sorts of things and since. Then the rest of the history I think every class has been there, in the one before it. Arrested, so, can you share your feelings about it. About. Being invested in yeah so for, one yet qatar school did and, receive, a seed investment, from a firm called tri ventures, in singapore, this. Was in 2018. And. It's. Amazing when you meet the right investor. So i think we got very fortunate, investors. At that firm actually talked to me all the time. He, stays over at my house when he visits, from Singapore, to Vietnam these. Types of things to find the right investor can help you grow your business is, super. Great so, I've been very lucky they've been very aligned, with. What curry school wants to do and they, give me the room to can grow and for, us it was just great because it allowed us to grow much more quickly I had all these plans and all these things I want to do and, we're taking me so much longer to get there just, by, bootstrapping, all, rightie investors. To, choose. Course. Going to invest it back thing. Yeah. I don't know if it's so much they chose coder school I mean I'm sure, that's. A little bit but I think Vietnam, is also a big draw for them so I think investors all over realize. The huge potential that Vietnam has it's one of the hottest markets to invest in it's, where there'll be a lot of growth in the next decade so, thank you for placing bets in Vietnam so when the investor came to us actually had looked for Vietnam first and. Then found us there. So. That was a big thing and also I think. Sometimes. You get a good feeling about people I think investors. I have our values-driven people, who, wanted to invest in people who care about the prom they're. Trying to solve so that's Stefan. Curve school so we definitely care, about what, we're doing I think that was a big plus for them. I. Really. Like you. Impressed by your, information, you invited because I, have known that whole school is you only, like. Pinnacle Technical Training scorn in Vietnam that has been invested, you know, yeah, so. About. Regarding. Points for I there, is something I felt very like, not clear or cultural, school Easy's business, model is it a nonprofit organization. No. It's not a nonprofit organization but, I'm actually kind of happy that people sometimes ask me that question I think it means that cutter school is doing something that has a good image that's something that seems helpful to society, so, I'm glad that we're doing that but no we. Actually do. You have a business model, we're. Trying to create value for everyone so, when you teach someone your skills they can have a higher salary better career and, the companies benefit companies can build more, awesome software and solve more awesome problems so, we do want to take some of that you for ourselves to that we creating so. When I came across your, website, I saw a term called like is I income, share agreement can you make it more detail to the audience. Yeah. The is a is a new type of Student Finance model so, under, an hi it's a instead, of just paying tuition. Fee a student via upfront you. Instead commit, to paying a percentage of, your salary after, you get a job.
Because. That's not right our ambition is to become the best Korean, school in the world not just obvious, Asia. I'm. Kidding which we should start with Southeast Asia we want to start here because we think here is the most potential. Especially. With the next five years so. We. Do have some plans right now is a crazy time to be planning because of all this like our, stuff, but even before the virus things, happened we're, looking a lot at online education, so, we. Want to move our, material. To be as accessible in, a, scalable as possible, so, especially. Given the fact that we're you, know teaching cutting-edge technologies, you, should be using those too so. Using. Online be, able to reach more people in more places it's. Definitely the top of our list for the next five years and we'll. Definitely gonna be vietnam first I still, think we all still think that Vietnam has the, most potential of. All the countries in the region but. Of, course we want to be everywhere. And. Looking at that for such a long time so, I would like to know more about your viewpoints, like your, school and I'll talk about ID, market in Vietnam so, from the most basic question. So, what other streams and witnesses, that about, getting the developer, that you, have found is there any difference between Vietnamese. Developer, and jános, around the world. Yeah. I think there is differences, I always get this question and I don't like answering it because it forces me to like group a whole bunch of people into one like small, paragraph, but. Overall I think. It's. A great place because there's just so many people there interested in technology so. It's a place where programming, is kind of cool like you know you have TV shows like top tip TV that, people actually watch and people, care about this stuff so I think that's the most important thing you, have like a fertile environment, you.
Know Really, rich soil for, like grape trees, to grow. So. That. Environment, is huge and really, it's only gotten me more over the past five years so I think maybe, five. Ten years ago it wasn't sure if I t's a good cool job but, now it's like those, are the coolest people around the startup people that. Startup culture has, really kind of taken hold, tech. Culture I really like it so, in. Terms of differences in talent, though I think, overall if I had to say something a little bit more serious it's, that the. Overall. Ecosystem. Still, a little bit young so. Like. All these companies like Google and Oracle whatever in in Silicon Valley they all came from research. Products like the ADEs like it's these companies actually people think they grew overnight but it's actually been it took decades for Google. To appear for Facebook to appear and. So you're getting a little bit of that here in Vietnam, but there's still a lot more I think experienced once. Vietnam builds, like these global companies you'll get a lot more engineers, who are very experienced, and have, built huge systems, so. That's a little bit still. Being. Grown here in Vietnam. Okay. Talking. About it now I'm gonna ask you the question like writing systems, in between. Old. School courses, and the course is provided, by enemies, University. Okay. So I've never been to Vietnam University, but if it's anything like American. University, it's, that they focus a lot in theory so. It's a lot of like learning the kind, of quote-unquote fundamentals, or theory behind things. That. Stuff's important, but I kind of find it boring so, like I think engineering is all about building cool stuff so we. Actually let people out there build things like hey, here's how facebook is built or something. Close to it or here's how you could build something like Twitter so, we try to build real things and give people like. The experience of working at a company of being. A software engineer so. That's. Why actually most universities, have the major called computer science it's. Not called software development, or software engineering. It's. About science and, so the biggest way that we're different is that we really focus on the practical, applications, of the. Theory. Theory. Article, yes. Yes exactly, okay I should have just said that. Some. Institutional, standards available. For students so for, element, theory is the entry level so. That they can capture with the technological advancement. As soon as possible, so, from. Your point of view what are the positives and the negatives are, they growing and you, consider, if you explain, code to like that in the future. Yeah. I don't, know if there are any negatives, I think learning more about technology no, matter what age you're at is gonna be great so knowing. More about technology is never gonna hurt you I think. It's. Like you know learning to read or learn to play a musical instrument these. Things are all going to be very, useful life skills even. If you don't become a personal musician or professor well like writer, but. Us. I don't know if I'll ever get involved directly I could, never say never. We want to support education. Tech education all stages so definitely in favor but. It's, definitely a different problem so I think, it's like asking University professor hey would you go teach, secondary. School they can, but. It's you see like, you want to let people, like. Kind of specialize and learn how to reach one. Particular group at a time. Why. Do you think about on job training like. Business, news they're like, yeah is this an employee to, teach, like, the shop term workshop, like, that. Yeah. I think that's great I think that if you have the more people like a ssin, is like a community thing so it's not like there's. One person only that person should teach like everyone has something they should share I think. The hard thing about a company though is like everyone is busy so if someone if your boss comes to you and says hey 90 teachers teach this workshop you're, like well I also have to do all these other things you.
Know I have lots of stuff to do so people, don't often have, enough time to, really develop. High-quality educational. Experiences, and, that's all we do so we think about how to teach things all the time we, think about it tweak small things here and there but all those little things that can make or, break educational. Experience, so. Well I think everyone should participate. Like, I do you think that the company it's hard to focus on that. And really deliver that and make the most of that time, giving. Your time you get man have you realized any, changes. Like, most positive, and negatives, in, students. In Canada over time for example do, they become more proactive at work or is, there any improvement in their creativity. Thinking, ability like, something like that. Hmm. Yeah, I think like you know young keep are the future and all that so coming. To Vietnam made me feel a bit old because. I'm so much older than everyone suddenly I didn't. Feel that way in America but definitely here I think. That the kind of the other new trends, are that people are much much. More like brave I think the young people. Aren't. As afraid, of failure. They're. Not worried about looking bad or getting the wrong answer, so. That makes it actually a lot easier to teach and we. Want people like that of course it's not just young people there's, a lot of older, people that have that same mentality here, too, but, I've. Seen a lot more of it with young people lately. Like. They choose in nature based on the, IC trains like, the harder the better so is opinions, like is it good for them to, have more opportunities, when, applying job or what, consequences. They will face when they keep choosing the majors like that. Yeah. I think it doesn't really matter because. I think like lots of people don't end up doing things different than their college major anyway so, you. Know if you major in one thing you can always learn something else. Actually, a cutter school most of our graduates don't have computer, science degrees they learned like totally different things like business art. Bartending. Tattoo. Artists we have people from all sorts of different backgrounds, that become excellent programmers, and then. When it comes to choosing your major in college yeah that's such a big one and when I was in the university I used to freak out about that, I guess I did end up working in the major I chose but. Most. People, don't I think so it's like just, choose something that you're gonna work hard at that you enjoy and that you'll get good grades in I think, that's the most important thing. This. Is going to define what students. Good at and to, choose a suitable course, and they have you have any advice to them yeah. That's like what college is for university, is for so you should be able to try as many things as possible, so. Like. For university students I have to tell you like this thing that happens once you join the real world it's, like really hard to learn new things so. Imagine you're an adult, and you want to learn about astronomy or, you want to learn about biology or, you want to learn about economics. It's, so much more difficult to. Do that so while University should really try to get as much breadth as much exposure to, different things as possible and if. You do that you expect that you'll kind, of not be good at Sun or hate some but even that is like, a learning experience so you realize you, don't like chemistry, great thank, you move on. Acquaint. You according. To your experience, like. How, long does it take, a candidate with no IT. Background to, become a front-end, developer or a mobile developer and, what. We gonna do - like, a complete, job. Yeah. So all time is not created the same so three months for one person can be equivalent. To three years of someone else so it's about how your focus and how you work how, much--how use your time our. Course is three months and that's, about the minimum it takes we've.
Seen See. If you work really hard in the three months it should be totally totally, a sufficient for, you to join as a junior developer somewhere, some. People might take a bit longer if you're less focused or if. You have less kind of experience going in. At. Least three months. Yeah. It's like I can't I think, everyone learns things differently like you know three months if I try to learn piano. For three months I'm not gonna be the same piano players if you learn it for three months I think you would be better than I would be I don't know. I'm. Bad at music. So. We're gonna move to the next part like more practical, and here I'll be gentle we're gonna read your CV or have. You read this to, CV yes I have. Okay, so we're. Gonna choose one, of them and that I'm, gonna ask you some questions related to that. Okay. Let me okay so I can just choose either one um. Okay. Let me let me think. Okay. Let's see the first one the, first one like Oh. 1995. I. Don't. Have any. Dates. On it. Yeah. The. Guy who graduate, 2013. Okay. It's. Like the person with and about. Me I am starting to get it by over two years here. The. Other one either, ones fine I can't either one okay so I gotta get up. Okay. So. So. Generally. So what do you think because you have any, advice, or coming, about the layout the, outlook will be CV. Yeah. Ideally. Speaking like you want everything if it on one page if you can and. I think actually like the projects are more interesting, so you want the more things. That so, if I'm looking at a candidate I look, at mostly the experience and. If. There's a product section that's, important to me too so. I'd want the products in the first page I'm. Not gonna like look at the second page. That's. Number one and. That's why I would try like may change the layout a little bit so you can fit more actual, text on the, front page, like. The skills that. Can go the second page for sure. And. Like. The about me could be maybe a little shorter or a little bit less a little. Bit less whitespace, it's a bit more stuff. It. Is easily have like. Five. Her about. Me like introduction, this, year the, education, the, education. And bracket, so, which part many thing is the most important, one. Yeah. I think that I mean so, I think ideally. You'd want to kind of merge the projects, and experience, section. So. The, highlights that the projects, should be an experience section because, to, me I mean, I look at the experience like oh you've been iOS developer great but. I do want a little more detail there and it's, kind of it's kind of hard for me to look into places and try to like make that link, oh he did this and this here and listen this had. Job, number two it's, unclear to put it unclear to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you up you know you, recommend, you like merge, the project included searing-hot, yeah.
It's. Not clearly made in the resume so like Java. Swift and Python are pretty like standard skills. Even. Under the other I don't see anything like quote-unquote. State of the art so seems a little bit. Okay. So, about, the project, so it, seems that he's gonna join, like four projects, with responsibilities. And technology, so, you, take a look at, this project and like put. It down to any experience. Like technology. Is in, history, or not or, have. To add what, information, to that yeah. Biggest, one is it's not clear, like. What that person person. Is done so actually, I I don't, like you when people say something like analyze, and develop app it's. A bit too generic so what the more details you can give like. Apply, in app purchase for payment it's a little bit better because. That makes it more clear what that person did you. Could even go a little bit more in detail like. Applied. Can have purchases, the whether he was Apple Store I'm not sure was app store if it was like a third-party provider of. His like recurring, purchase like there's all these like complicated, things in you know purchasing. And. I. Mean I would talk a little bit more about why. It was interesting, so. The, description that project is not that important so I don't really. Need. To know if it's what, it is as much but like. Have the technology section like firebase okay how did you use firebase or rx with 10 G's rx swift. Chromecast. How to use chromecast I don't know like that all these things are cool and what we're saying about them. So. What. Do you think about the city it's not like the city's potential. Oh hi. So. It, is citywide, potential. Have high potential or high. Competition. Between the others I. Think. It shows some potential because the person is able to at, least go to detail about the products they worked on so, I can kind of think this person is actually a little bit organized, they, kept to get a record oh if they do I. Don't. Know if it's like jump, Yami's super strong though because it's not a detail, like I can't tell how good a programmer, this person is so, this person more of a designer this more person I dated like they don't seem like a back in person it's their database skills week I'm, not quite sure what. Their specialty is gonna be. Conclusion. In a legend on this city sorry audience can put out to the spirits and my, future. Yeah. So I think this person is a young person, with some potential, I don't. Think they're ready to be like a senior, developer yet, because, I haven't seen any. Specific. Detail, my, guess is they're working as a junior developer and, you have that much responsibility. That's. Like kind of a it's, a good resume but maybe not like super. Super awesome yeah. I think this person has a bright future. So. I think this is gonna like close, this episode today so, okay, I have to admit area I, really, of my knowledge, you guys another as well as your association. The, person for like ite, is ready, committee so, it's such a pleasure for me intimately. To have your participation is, absol, and once. Again thank you so much for joining with, us today and I, wish you an exceptionally. Productive working, name okay, experience. Seven. Times in a row until engineer, is okay to compiler and, welcome, to but an economist, terrible I can hear things up the, see, engineering, career from the Ligurian a canonical school, that get back in so if you do get some people to become recommend you in some linear, velocity. Data bank either one light here both, a song, for my cigar but we always hung over, from Edmonton. And math so I think interior, together hang about. You.