This week in Bitcoin- 2-8-2019- QuadrigaCX, Jack Dorsey, MimbleWimble, Bisq, LightningTorch, BSV
Hello. Everyone. This. Is, adam. Meister the. Bitcoinmeister. The. Disrupt. Meister. Welcome. To. This week. In. Bitcoin. Today. Is, February. The. 8th. 2019. And like the shirt says, strong. Hand. Oh we got like this shirt I love this shirt long, term thinking bitcoin, is the next Bitcoin, I'm confiscating. All one. Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin, alright, so let's, let's just jump into this we've got a new guest and two. Old guests first. Of all you guess we got Chris coming in from Puerto Rico we got Lorien coming in from Johannesburg, South, Africa and, introducing. Sarah who. Is in Israel, yeah. All. Right, amazingly. I've met, all three of these people in real life and I've hung out with them they are real people I can. You. Can believe me on that so let's let's. Start off with a story. Of is it true or isn't it true, the. Quadrangle. What's, the name of that exchange Chris, in Canada. A quatrain, my dream my, dream, the. Bottom line is a lot of people were keeping some Bitcoin there and they don't have a Bitcoin anymore and perhaps. The, guy. In charge passed, away. It's. Been the talk of the town though and people, are associating. It with Bitcoin, now and cryptocurrency. So Chris what's what's the lesson from all this what have you heard, well. Apparently, they lost something like, 21,000. Bitcoin, that's what I read and. You. Know I don't, know if it's an, inaccessible. Meaning. Like it's never gonna move and they know where it is or if it's somewhere, and just no, one knows, how where, it where it is at all I'm, not sure but I read something from the crack and CEO, saying that you know the story about what, happened is totally unbelievable I'm, not sure exactly what he meant by that but you, know it sounds like people are really questioning, whether this, guy passed away where he just kind of like went, off somewhere with the 21,000, bitcoins so. And you know that's, that's, the risk with storing, your coins on the exchange you know I know you talk about storing. It on hardware wallets, or you know paper wallets things like that there's a lot of other better options obviously than, storing our exchange but, you, know for traders they have to store on exchanges, so sometimes. There's no way around it but you know this is the risk that you have with holding, it on the exchange. So. Yeah now. Of, course it's. Another I say, it's lesson, learned that's that's why I'm bringing it up you, know Oh get your treasurer but, another reason I'm bringing it up is because Sarah is on the show and Sarah knows about to decentralize, exchanges, you know about bisque now you can give us your phone you can give us your thoughts on this situation but then tie it in the biggest cost. First. Of all I mean I don't know a lot about this story but I mean it's sad to say bit there's always the possibility was, murdered, and. Apparently. There was some money moving I'm not sure about it you know it's really, suspicious story, but. In the only decentralized, exchange bisque, that. Definitely can happen, so. Should I tell about this. Please. I want it because I these. Last before this even happened. I started, playing around with bisque and I was like this is great. They. Can't stop anyone and this. Is gonna be. It's. Like the only decentralized. Exchange that. Actually exists because it have its own client, can most of like the pretend you centralized exchanges, on ethereum well. First of all they're only for a theorem token so this exchange has like like, basically almost any coins and fiat. Like you have chuckles they have dollars you. Have Manero, you, have Mike, coy and bitcoins and it's, all like they use multi, signatures, and, so. It's very decentralized, they. Also have arbitrators. The good decentralize. That system, later but right, now you mean you can trust our retailer because he's a developer. It's. A really really. Good project, been around, for a couple of years their interface, wasn't, so great but I managed to use it actually like, it's like you can get a bank transfer for, a Bitcoin and the Bitcoin you know like they you have to just. After you get the bank transfer you authorize your Bitcoin to move out of the mall the signature and, so. That's like, really really, really cool project so.
They. Just came out with the new and your face I didn't try it yet but, I think it's better and, they're also building, API. Where you can connect to, the exchange, build your own graphic. Interface oh that's gonna make it better because, basically it says like a really, really important service because like for example in in, Israel when there's the big run-up last year and the Bitcoin price so. Banks. Were just, not letting people buy and sell Bitcoin and so. If they could use bisque they could just trade it and the bank can't stop them cuz they're getting a bank transfer to someone just from a person and you. Know trading you know all coins and share coins and stuff like that it's just it's like there's, not so much liquidity but, it's it's really safe you know it's not gonna get hacked and, also. They're bringing out a dhow under, few months which, I'm, not sure exactly how it's going to work but I think it's actually gonna be maybe one of the only really, operational. Real. Like, Dow so I think that's really interesting I mean like. I'm familiar with the people that are part. Of running, the project and they're like they. Really believe in, you. Know in Bitcoin and decentralization so, I think they're gonna do a like. A really interesting project, they're like no yes. So that was was that the latest news that that our Swedish guy was up telling me about the other night. I. Already have they're down on the test net and, they have a, token for the exchange and. They're. Gonna just they, want to do is I want to vote with the down to who to keep paying to. Help keep developing the exchange and, stuff. Like that I don't know I want, to make it more like decentralisation resistant I don't know how it's gonna work out but I think it's like it's gonna be interesting to see like if they succeed, it's. Gonna be really good sign I mean like you know running yet like kind, of decentralized this way. I'm. Gonna say no you brought, up the aspects. Of the bank transfers, and all that stuff I have no, idea about that stuff so that was very interesting to me for me right, now as it stands with bisque it's, like there's no know your customer you can trade your altcoin, for Bitcoin and that's, what I've played.
Around With in very small amounts, and it just it's it's pretty easy it's a good it's a good test of your skills if. You're, you've. Gotten in the big coin you played around a little bit and this is like the next level right there and, you don't have to worry about exchanges. Saying oh no you can't withdraw any more because your, Bitcoin is never there, actually, that that's that's. The big thing yeah. It's. Just so the guy who made, a bit like manfred was the guy who came, up with it he can die but it doesn't matter to you know yeah. I. Mean just to be fair actually, if he would die today there might be a problem because he I think he's still the only arbitrator. But. And. He. But. Like, you. Know it's, still like he, probably made, sure that, it's not gonna get shut down if, he goes missing I'm really. Pretty sure of that because they're very, very like. Conscious. Now. We know before we go to laureen's thoughts on exchanges, in miscellaneous, subjects, I want to go back to Chris because Chris you've played around bisk haven't you yeah. I downloaded, it you, know I've been tracking it because I've been you. Know following the Bitcoin corrodium. That. You know which just trade it there and. It's. Interesting I've, also tried out their API and it works actually it's, very convenient, for like on your phone if you like I've been using, it to check the price of Bitcoin rhodium for instance and you can just you know on your phone it's. Plain. Text so you can just see it really quickly as opposed to some of these other sites that take forever to load and stuff like that yeah that, works really well with. The the whole, being. Safer, than other exchanges. I'm, not totally, sure about that because I think like like you guys are talking about there is this, arbitrator, it just it the the thing that this does differently is the, arbitrator, can be someone different like I think you can maybe choose your arbitrator. Something. Like that I know, their. Program. Can detect it on its own that you know you. I. Haven't. Looked into it but if, they. If they don't have an arbitrator, for the the, altcoins, trading back and forth. I'm. Not sure they'd have to use like atomic swaps and I doubt they've implemented that yet so, because, like especially. One. Of the requirements, for listing, a coin there is that they have to have a block Explorer, so I think that's what you're you're, getting at Sarah that it should be if if it's if a coin has been approved for listing, there it has a block Explorer, that, it. Can be. Confirmed. That you know you sent your altcoin, type, of situation, III. I do want to I'm gonna add one thing you, can't fake volume, on there either because you've got to put like a you, got to put a deposit more. Unless you want to lose your deposit it's. It's not like on some of these exchanges. You can just you. Know say you've got a certain amount to sell and then like remove it immediately there, you've got a you've. Got to put a deposit down which I thought was a good.
Good Addition, and. Yeah and they do have us you know I know Chris we're gonna talk about this incorrect Chris is doing, a Bitcoin. Crypto. Dividend and they. Do have a they, have it listed on there how you get your coin listed, and if, you if everything gets approved then yeah this it, was there's the other thing this space is you have the product, these exchanges, to get listed which is ridiculous, but, that's just the way it is with this you, just have to have certain technical. Qualifications. To. Get listed on disk so yeah I'm. Sorry Chris so yes I'm not to say well. I was just gonna say it's C it seems like mainly, you have to do the coding or be willing to do the coding for to get your coin on there I mean that's, sort of what I've seen, from, them you. Know yeah. It's not about money that's the other changes. Yeah. This isn't is isn't easy yeah I mean it's we're in early days and everything so you're right about that you. Guys. Like working 24/7, and now they have two, people and there's, already doing some exploring, so I don't know I think it like has a lot of potential if, it's going to be usable, well. Really. Important, to have something like that because you know if you can't maybe. Can't trade the bitcoins, of the all coins I mean what you, know. All. Right Lorien, your lori has not spoken yet he is sat there patiently do, you have any thoughts on exchanges. On bisque. On. This Canadian, hack anything Lauren, yes. Well I, think you. Know what it shows it's not so much that we need to start looking at. Realizing. This dream of a decentralized exchange but, it's actually to seek. A world where. Custodial. Wallets exchanges, and so on are regulated. You, know if we had businesses, that were, audited. If they were to, comply with ends money-laundering, if they had. Their tech stacks evaluated. Through security companies, that. Is how it's going to create consumer confidence we're, not going to be you. Know scared to leave our points, on exchanges, where for most people not. For tech savvy people that's, the most convenient place if, you want to move your keep. Your money okay you have to have serious. Tech skills you got to understand trestles paper wallets and so on we, need places where people can store, coins. In a custodial way and the only way we will ever have those if. We have businesses. That are. Stable. They have reputation, they, can. Provide assurance, to us so, this. Is just another example of, this, is always going to be a, terrible. Like place to trade, coins and whatever you want to do until. We have an environment, where government, and you, know the, tax authorities, are, all in they, are totally happy with but cryptocurrency. And. They. Allow people to trade it and that means the businesses that not offering those services get get, to, meet the standards, that we expect, now. You're starting to sound a little bit like farzam, who was on the show a couple weeks ago and who's also from South Africa, and he, and are, you reflecting, the mood of the core of the of the community there it seems like, South. Africa is moving toward the direction that you're talking about I'm. Not flexing. Any particulars, country's mood. This, is, the mood of business. And how the world works you know a lot, of bitcoiners. Are idealists, you know especially those that tend into that anarchist, viewpoint. This. Is not the real world you know it's, naive to think that we're going to create a system that explodes. In value explodes, in use without. Governments. And everybody being, on board and, lower law, enforcement, and so on so, I'm not reflecting, a particular mood here what I'm reflecting is exactly as far as, the, real world we are involved with business were involved with banks were involved with governments, and we.
Can See progress because, government, is getting on board the. Countries, where there will only be no progress is where government is still a worried, that this is an anonymous. Thing, that's going to be used from a drug dealing and money laundering and capital flight so, that's, just the real reality. Of it whoa. Now my two other guest Rory. Just said a lot there do you guys have thoughts on that. The. Government would use their ugly circles they, don't need, that another thing that bitcoin, is gonna explode and control the world but, it's, gonna it's gonna use this if they want it or not a lot of countries that hate it people. Are using all the time because they need it I mean we need it we, don't want like these disgusting governments, I mean and maybe it is good if some countries are gonna get on board as Bitcoin yeah but like that's, not, I don't. Think that's like how the world works all. Right Chris, the. Part I'll push back on, is it, it's, hard, to store your, coins on on a traceur or a. Paper wallet I've, done those I mean I do have a technical background but you know my mom has a truce or and, I, did help her set it up but she can use it you know I don't. Think it's I don't think you need like an advanced degree to, be able to use particularly. The hardware wallets right, and. You. Know I think that these things are gonna get better there's no reason that your order has to be any more complicated than then, like Bank of America right, you know or a big bank it's, just you. Know getting enough funding behind these projects, to make them user-friendly, and that's, happening you know as the price of Bitcoin goes up I know we're in a bear market but, you, know we're still a lot higher than we were four. Or five years ago and you know if as long as that trend keeps happening which, you, know I don't see that stopping personally. There's. Going to be more money funneled, into the development, on these tools so they're going to get better and things like this is another example you. Know as the, as, the community grows and people want to trade more off points this, is going to get it more mature right now it's you know it's it's pretty hard to use but it's getting better and all. These technologies, are going to be easier to use and I don't, see a reason why they have to be more complicated than, like. You know your. Favorite banks, you I I don't, see it and governments. Are never really gonna like. A Bitcoin, that much because they. You. Know they're they. Have a monopoly on money, that's that's part of how, you have a government, so I don't I don't see that happening yeah. Yeah. That last point there Lorien, where do you think you know governments, they're. Not going to like Bitcoin too much. Of. Them not below money and I mean do you foresee, like a bunch, of Bitcoin, banks, that are approved by governments, and that's where people keep their Bitcoin at yes. I absolutely, do, see that I think you know when we we think about government's, role in this whole space you, know we'll all of us have that kind of. Austrian. Gut reaction, where we constant.
Inflation. And we think governments, you. Know abuse, that that power they have chained fake currency, to, to, create. To be able to afford to pay for, projects. That are inefficient and wasteful and horrible, like war and so on so, that of course is something that I appear. I also be you. Know I don't like the fact that governments have a monopoly on money and I want to take that monopoly away I want, to bring honest money back into the world and that's what bitcoin was always meant to be create honest money but, it doesn't mean that a government can't exist of. Course it's going to keep them honest and as, the system around us crumbles, which I do believe is happening people. Are going to want. To go, back to a sound money system and of course gold you, know gold is is impractical, for so many different reasons but coin is so much better and so. I think that what's going to happen though is the we'll still have governments, they'll. Just be constrained. In the same way gold constrained, them they'll be constrained, by a monetary, system I'll abide Bitcoin but they can solution currency they just going to have to make sure they have the Bitcoin as reserve but, this is the the real world you know a lot, of us think that the only way this can end their ultimate the only solution there is for this is when, we destroy, it utterly destroy, it if the government's, system, and. That's that anarchist, approach but. When, we say governments you know what. We're saying is and, this is what government wants you, know of course there's, dishonest, governments I'd like to print money of, course my to keep that, sort of power but this is what a government wants when we talk about regulation. They, don't want to control, they. Want to have visibility they, want to be able to know what's going, on they, want to know that money is moving from A to B they want to know that if a merchant is accepting, a currency. That they want to know how much it is because they want to get their pound of flesh into in form of tax so, what, has to happen is, that we. Need to push the message not of, decentralization. To the to the ends degree where they become irrelevant but, remember. And also decentralization. Is not the goal decentralization. Is the tool and the, tool what is that to have this immutable, ledger with us with a stable. Fixed supplier if you guys are all into Bitcoin then you know what I mean so, the, this is going to be the, ultimate outcome if split coin is to succeed and I'm a Bitcoin maximalist, also purist I think, that. Yes. I can talk more about that if you like but to. Finish the point this, is this is how it's going to be where. Governments, are can't are comfortable, that, this is a remember. Bitcoin is a public, transparent, ledger and, the. First currencies, that are going to die. Are, all those ones that are seeking anonymity, not, a privacy, you know privacy is is fine you can be private but, as soon as you're anonymous that's, where government is going to have an issue so, we, are looking for a world where we don't, fight the system.
Because, That is as I said is naive you, know it's, a revolutionary, thinking and you know, if. You're lucky it doesn't, become it doesn't isn't realize and become disruptive, but, the government, know that they can they. Can see transactions, they can audit businesses, they, can make. Sure that there's anti-money, laundering systems. In place so that people aren't, doing. All the things that they want to do doing, drugs and so on selling drugs then, we need to convince them that this is a transparent. System, that they, can have, visibility, on and that is unfortunately. Even if you have those feelings that screw, them we want to kill them that's that naive thinking but, you're saying on one hand that's unstoppable, on the hand the only way it's gonna succeed is, if the government likes it I don't know I think your view of government does things I mean I think it would you consolation I, think it's. Way beyond saving, they're like hi I'm the government I'm gonna, I. Mean it's not like, that anymore it's I mean it's beyond the, state. Where it can cut cut the government can go and fix about this. One. Thing I like to bring up is I think that the idea of kyc and AML, is relatively, new thing you know if, you look at how the. System works before. Like when when we were on a gold standard and things like that those. Things didn't exist and. You, know they've been getting more and more invasive. In the, last you, know I guess over the last hundred years but. You know like it. Wasn't always like this so like you can have government, without having all these strict. Kyc and AML things and you know just like you didn't on the gold standard people would, actually take gold to a bank and deposit it, and get a receipt but that's how money that's how like paper money started, and. We could go back to a system more like that and still have government's government, and they wouldn't be able to tax the same way they taxed today like like, you were talking about looking at all the transactions, but they'd have to go to something more like tariffs you know which, you know people. Are talking about tariffs a lot more recently too you know so, I think that that's how a government stays. Relevant if we go to a Bitcoin standard it's based on tariffs, and you. Know people would have privacy, if their money that's that's what I think. Not. So much tariffs but it's snails tax you know sales tax exists, if, you buy something it was at a store you're, not getting taxed you you know you're the transaction, is being taxed at the sale. And same, with corporate tax so I wouldn't say tariffs so much although tariff is just you know a cost, that's I agree I. Think. The reason the government's have relevance, is, because. The most important, is because they have guns and and machine. War, machines stuff like that they're scary so that, makes them relevant I. Don't, know what mr. Craig write things about but. I mean like an Israel for example the, government, didn't. Ban Bitcoin it hates it and people are still buying it I mean it's. Just been um, sort. Of talking, about the come off if, you're interested, in that Adam. Yeah, just this week like, the Hamas is a. Promise. Organization. It's. Classified, as a terrorist organization. By the United States of America and well yeah, they're. Also. But, they're also been elected, to like government's in Gaza so it's kind of complicated. They got their money cut off and so. They someone. Supposedly. The Hamas website. With. Address. To. Receive, money and so. It's like made all the headlines in Israel they were like the Hamas supposed, to be Bitcoin and, I, just read this article and like the main Israeli, newspaper and they were just like trashing, Bitcoin they were saying it was anonymous which, it isn't they, were really exaggerating.
About It it was I was actually interesting. I felt like there was like an agenda and, they they were just reporting it they were like really being really alarmist, about it even, though some people check they they only got like three thousand dollars and the really funny part is if, they thought it was corn based wallet, they, had a guy yeah, they have a coin based wallet. Isn't. Quite sure they're going to lose their money they're not. Later. They bought a new address and they. Also found apparently. There's also a Bitcoin exchange in Gaza, and a. Lot, of the money came from there I mean they did this chain analysis it's, actually very, funny. Well. Yeah I mean part, of the lesson in, all that is again if you if. You if you want your Bitcoin you got to control your own private key and you got to pound that like button right now that we know. No. Mas team you Hamas, did not know that it for I mean if they real had a coin base address that's just naive I don't know I mean you never know we never know in this world anymore what's, real it. Could be the Hamas definitely, probably. Some kid running their telegram. Account. And. The bigger thing Sarah is I mean you're gonna have to get used to say that you're Eustace any negative. Organization. That's connected, to Bitcoin in any, way it's going to be blown out of proportion it's just going to be blown out of proportion always. By the media they're going to exact I mean they, got it click, so I mean yes yeah. And. Apparently. Association. Someone. Wrote to them it said please stop providing service. There's. A lot of confusion. Stop. Providing that's. That's a weird one right there. But I want to go back to you, know we're talking about you, legalities, and and. Terrorist. Whatever and. Governments, and government, approval, Lorien. One thing that I brought up to you like well you, know this also, people. Have put inappropriate. Images, to. Say the least on the SV blockchain, how does the government handle that I mean what. What's. The role bear yes. Well the the fact is that oh blockchains, have, had data. Uploaded, to it this. Is just how block chains work you can put random, data in there because. Sv is going. For you know trying to remove all limits where up returns, block.
Size And so on you know it's becoming a lot easier now to put data into that that. That little, field but, actually. The law does, have a perspective. On this and, it's not a new law or relation only to blockchains relating, to all IT, systems, that can store data. The. Fact is that if a business is. Has. Has, a, service. And what they do is they offer storage on that service and you upload, a. Illegal. Content onto that service the, business itself with. It because it's server this is within their legal this. Is what they're allowed, they, don't get. They're not breaking a law they don't they're not considered, to be the ones breaking and also if you're gonna upload a. Copied. Movie or something you. To, the file-sharing, service they're not liable but. If you have that data on, your. Local hard drive then. And you're an individual, not a business then of course you're going to be liable. And you're gonna be breaking, the law so when, we look at blog chains now it's, quite easy. To see how. Block chains work you, know what we have is we have these mining, operations, and they're looked, at as businesses, and they. Hold full nodes and then if they have all the data and, if. They are now caught with information, obviously, if they're indexing, that information, if you have a service that's indexing, the illegal files or the legal data then, of course even if your business you will get nails for that but, if you're just hosting it and you not you know you just have them in your log files and so and then that's fine our miners though the whole idea on mining, was, that they were always meant to become these data centers even satoshi nakamoto said, no mining, is going to become a specialized, industry, where, there will be large data, centers, much like we have ice keys and data. Centers today and what, happens is they act as businesses, and, because. They are now holding these nodes. They have all the data there, are they're free. Now. This, is the interesting thing about BTC. BTC. Is very different EDC is going out of their way to make sure that everybody, individuals. Like yourselves maybe even some of you do hold, a node locally. You're not considered, a business and. The. Data that is now step kept on your node and or raspberry pie or whatever it is because. It's got illegal content and I can tell you that there's illegal content or terrible.
Images And stuff on BTC. Thanks. You are actually going to be breaking the law so one, of the the aspects around bigpoint pure for original protocol Bitcoin was that it catered, for that very issue. Yes. That's. The. It's. Not my opinion that's the law so if you go you can go find that. That big called Bitcoin notes to be considered businesses, and that's, gonna solve. Everything, uh if, you are a business if. You are a business, operating, a node then, you're you you're not breaking, the rules if you are an individual, node you're on. Quite. Bakhtin we need to have. But. Hang on like a business, is really like. I you, know I have several businesses and they're just pieces of paper right like you could have a sole proprietorship, so. If, we want to stay a full node as a business, you. Know okay it's, a soul everyone's a sole proprietor, this is just like. Definitions. Right well. Not ready if you are business, you're gonna have to be registered and so on so you can put yourself necessarily. You. Can have a sole proprietorship, without, doing, anything you just say I'm. So. Make within then that's in your front. Something. Else that Lorien, said Lauren you said anonymous. You. Like privacy, but, anonymous, coins the government's are going to shut them down so, it. Seems. Like there's a lot of talk lately in the Bitcoin world about, making Bitcoin. Anonymous. Well, you know this remember Wimble talk and just figuring out other what do you what do you think about all that what do you - of any thoughts on this minimal Wimble or on Anzhi cash or mineiro governments, are going to shut them down or, yes, of course I mean I am a business I am a Bitcoin, business and I engage and work with regulators, and government across, the world so, I know exactly what they're thinking I know I know how those, meetings are turning out and the papers and the opinions. That are being created right now and. All. Of them are. Without. Knotty, without thinking about it they're really saying if it's anonymous it, of course is not going to be allowed to exist you might have Manero sort of nodes and you might have sea cash nodes running but, you're never going to have the scale that you need to turn it into something that becomes. You. Know that changes things I mean you can have a little you, know nodes. People, trading amongst themselves but that's not going to be significant, what, they are moving, towards is the transparency. Of it and the, the privacy, you know if you if you are a private, it's different from being anonymous Bitcoin and scale if we, manage to get Bitcoin, to scale to the world and we have, millions of transactions, billions. Of transactions, occurring on the network then. You are going to be getting. The the, privacy. That you need but, you. Don't need anonymity, and in fact if Bitcoin, core, would, be deceived pursues. The mumble mumble approach and tries to be anonymous you, know they already have the issue of lightning notes being money transmitters, they're going to now have to try. And and convince again, businesses. To accept anonymous, transactions. And no business will. Court. A, lot of people are suggesting they're going to use it as a mixer. You know you could go to like, the Green Corn come back, find. Then that's going to be okay but as soon as there, is anonymity. First, of all government is not going to like it second of all businesses, and consumers won't like it because remember you, need recourse, if, you make a payment to a service provider and, they don't, deliver you, need to be able to prove that you have now created. The trouble agency you can, you, can even if you have a prat like on a memo one more point you, can still prove that you made that transaction. If. You have. The digital signature attached so that's an.
Issue That is, also important you know because we've got segregated witness in BDC so, that's going to be another issue that makes it not usable. In terms of commerce as we know today. For. Many for, money transmitters. Except. Some they need to know it's like they need to check it, i. Want. To skank I want to thank Josh Cole help for sending uh five dollars in the super chat by the way I forgot to say that pound that like button Josh and everybody watching, the show live I'm sure you're you're enjoying this because Laurie and then you, I would. Ask you a question any heck, over. To you've been in Bitcoin for a very long time I mean like. Eight years now I don't even know what it's like longer than most people I know it's very like have you seen yourself change. Your. Attitudes, like have. You gone from being an anarchist to like you see more very, much in line with the government now, I was. Never an Anika's Dedham. What. I Anna I mean have you gone through a transformation have, you gone through, this. Time sure you're. Right. Install alien yes. I have changed okay. But, I'll tell you change has been subtle you, know when I first got into Bitcoin you, know I went didn't have a business I you, know I saw, I mean I'm from Zimbabwe and, I remember when the currency collapsed, and I was, very, anti this, the, money the financial system, I hate the financial system I think it's terrible you know I hate the way banks work and I hate the, way central banks work so, a big point to me was definitely freedom. From that and I wanted, to pursue that at whatever the cost was, and of, course you know the narrative, was always about, governments. Are evil, we need to change things but, as I have been, working in the space and as I have been engaging, businesses. And. Growing. This you know the ecosystem, in a way that's not what, you see in you. Know on social media but actually, in the real world you, know in terms of how governments, and corporations, work I realized, that as much, as I would like to become a revolutionary and, change things and knock everybody off their pedestals, I realized. That the world doesn't work like that you it's you, have to be a lot more subtle. About things that also there, are things about the status quo that you can't change and when. It comes to the legality, you, know there. Are a lot of things. About the, world that are not just, evil based on central banking but, I have. Been defined. Through law through, many. Centuries, and. Bitcoin. The Bitcoin that people are trying to seek now at least in terms of the the decentralization. The BTC approach and also the manera that. Is breaking. Centuries. And, going against centuries, of a legal system that is not, what we're trying to find we. Like law the world likes a legal, place where they can be just justice, and. What. We need to do is we need to now create, a system and again Satoshi, Nakamoto, is miserable, people think of him as an TMT. System you know he wasn't trying to go against the system he, was trying to create. He. Was trying to create. A system, that could work within regulate. The regulatory, environment and within standard, laws. Currently. Working. I. Was. Going to ask what am, I going to shut down my narrow NZ cash, coming. Yeah. I. Mean where do they get it done they weren't should have done but they, will make sure that no business can ever accept it no legal business no, money.
Transmitter, Can ever use it no legal. Business that operates and, every user to provide. You. Know every, money that, goes they want to change into Fiat. You know the company needs to say you know Safeco sure they. Can look where it came from they, can totally do this thing without changing. Good of the coin first. Of all but. I mean like it what like there, would have to be a law that says, the, business, literally, cannot, accept, certain. Coins and, can't accept the other coins I just don't see like. Where, I mean you're, basically saying that we're gonna ban a certain kind of math and at. Least in the u.s. I mean that's what I'm most familiar with is like I've, heard that that's unconstitutional, right, because you're. Saying that like it's. You, know money like money, is kind of like a communication. And. I do see. I'm. Not I'm not saying that it's going to be they're going to be banning, the protocol, or the the, you, can there that will exist that's, no problem you can have seen, a shamon era and that'll never go away there are people who want to hold it and run nodes of course it'll never go away but, if you want to go and buy your groceries or, pay your rent or pay your taxes or buy a bus ticket with, it that's not going to happen so. The use of it be forced away and what's the Sabine what's the value of it apart, from whether you is being, in a privacy, you know for like, if you want to store value, and maintain, your privacy you, can do that even if you can't use it at the grocery store you can transfer, it to another. Thing. That you can like Bitcoin, or yeah, I think people do today is. To think about it it, for, something to have vadi there must be demand so, why, because a linear model there's. A moment where privacy. And yes I mean that's why my, weight of Manero have a seven seven billion dollar market cap at one point you, know. There's. This Mimi, I think Andreas Antonopoulos came, up with this meme about Bitcoin. Or cryptocurrency, being freeze free, speech have you ever heard that mean before yeah. So. So. What happens now if you think about what you're saying is that you're, saying that it doesn't matter that the coin can't be used in commerce or anything like that it, matters. Because you and I can have a private transaction among between, ourselves do. It I didn't. Say it doesn't matter I just said, the you. Know if we can't use it at a grocery store you can still I mean that's one you can use get to spend it another excess or it you, know so. There's to use it on Darkman markets, you know those are all things people use these. Points for the, ideal use, at the grocery store but even if you don't get to that. Life-changing. Thing, we just store values it's, saving, your kitty or saving and preventing, anyone from confiscating, it. So. Happen, if you wanted to buy something one day with your your your your private, call or an anonymous. Coin. So. If you want to do buy something with all.
You Want to the usual, anonymous, coin at for later on to you know to store your value as you say and then, one day to cash, it out into something of tangible, value real value that you can then go and trade for good or service so, you're saying that it's it's good if there's a good enough demand use, case for people to have this this an anonymous, coin that, they can one day sell. It and then they can buy something or real with a boy oh yeah, well I don't know but all I'm saying is manera had, a seven billion market cap there, must be a reason for that you know the people valued, it speculation. I. Mean. The speculation, is based on that. This is something people are going to need one day you're gonna need this anonymous, I mean one thing I want to bring up is litecoin, the rumor is that well. The the beam people, are working with the litecoin foundation. To make. It to make up coin beam using. Nimble window and the price of light coin just, it, went up that that is the reason now, again and it's that's purely based on speculation of, course but. There there does seem to be some interest in in Indian I anima side of things I I'll, say that I'll, say that and it. Is very interesting Lorient, the perspective. Sv. What. Is it a compliant. Bitcoin is that what it's is, that what it wants to be known as or I, mean, this easy. We've, got two different we've. Got people who want to follow the rules and the people we have idealist, and then you're, not as much as an idealist, you're saying as you once were I think that's yes. Sir again and. I'm sure you know this Adam that that, the the thing about Bitcoin is fee is that, it was satoshis, vision so it's the original protocol, it doesn't have, things like segregate witness and RBF and so on. So, it's the original protocol, so when you say is this trying to be the compliant, protocol. Well, it's Bitcoin, it was always what bitcoin was meant to be it, was always meant to be something that was, useful, in trade and commerce peer-to-peer, cash and so on and again. If you want something to be cash you, want to be able to buy stuff with it you're going to need to comply, with whatever regulations are in place so a good point is the isms this variant, that is now trying to be something that it that was is new this, is the original core protocol, this is what it was all about and, creating. A peer-to-peer cash, system where we can go and buy our groceries and parents parent taxes in it so, it this is the the idea, of, Bitcoin. What, has happened has, is that Bitcoin, through all the, personalities. And so on the, idea has deviated, down, into this and autistic, you. Know extreme, libertarian. View. Share. You're not familiar with Lawren people on he everytime lorian's on the show this, is a pretty mild debate, the last two times it was it was going off the charts, that the, yelling and cursing. What. Are you guys nuts, I mean. Bitcoin. That's what's gonna. You, can make BTC, compliant, what is Craig rice done for you no, no I don't. Where's. That, I'm. With you Sarah, I am with you on this I just love the glory and speak his mind and you guys are. Yours question, one. Question I have is you. Know Craig, Wright's vision of. The. Blockchain is that you have these massive, blocks, and, then. Only you know only a few people are gonna be able to mine them you know he had freely admits it that you know he, talks about how half power is, king, right but.
You, Know you know, isn't. That going to end up in a state where you have a few people who control, things. Like for, instance the emission schedule right what. Happens when all of a sudden you know okay maybe the people running these these farms. Right now or you, know on board with this vision that we're not going to inflate them monetary, supply but, what about twenty years from now and someone else comes in and they, decide that you know 21 million bitcoins isn't, good enough and hey we've read all the notes we're, going to change it sorry, we're, the only ones that are running the notes so how. Do you prevent that so. Bitcoin you know the the thing that also people have kind, of forgotten is that this was an economic system it's not a technology system, it's an economic system. I. Mean what the. Hell man. No. Cursor begin so bitcoin is an economic, system and how, is it secured, how does, Bitcoin, achieve. It the security, well. Through decentralization. Now. How. Do how, do we achieve the decentralization. Where, we have, businesses. And people who ever kind of have, the capital to compete. In, an economic, environment and what, they're doing is they're competing to, solve, blocks so they can earn rewards, and they can earn fees so. Through, competition. What, we are going to achieve is a system. Where you can't have somebody deciding. I want to now change the rules because then they are the ones that get, shut, out of the system through the, approval. Work system so, this is the the whole mechanic, around Bitcoin, it was always meant to be as. System that created economic incentives. For, people to be able to compete with each other to be able to solve blocks so. Of course we're not going to have a world where there are millions, of miners we don't even have that right now we even BBC has very few miners right now and. So. It's not about how, many, miners. There are it's, about having. Sufficient miner. People. Out there who, are all competing with each other to try and achieve. The proof of work and that's, the security yeah but if you look at what he says he's, talking, about in this hatch war how he controls. Enough of the hash power then he's just gonna do whatever he wants in other words he has more than 50% or, you know he has a small, group of people that are more than 50% so I just don't see how those two things go together he's saying, like I'm gonna be the you know the dictator, on one hand and then on the other hand you, know we're still decentralized, if you wanted to centralization, that's what the whole point of having. Not, 128. Megabytes blocks is you know a smaller block size that's what the whole block size debate was about. The. Funny thing is I've never moved I've, been on the original protocol since day one.
He Says, the same thing this is so. Let let, the P I mean let the people decide what, what what is what is Satoshi's, vision. There's. Like there's idealism. I think there's the idealism, of Bitcoin, and there's. There's, a compliant. Nature, to what what. Lorien, is saying. If. You really want to I don't, know I just don't, really I just don't really comment. On it because doesn't really make any sense to me so, I can't, like you know takes like ten more times effort, they're like. And I. Don't know like. You know it's been party afternoon, all. Right all right. Chris. Your your thoughts real quick before we get back to Lorien. No. I mean that, was pretty much it I guess the thing I was saying at the end was the the, person who put in the one, megabyte block with Satoshi it was initially 32, megabytes he. Realized that there needs to be a limit and he put it at one that's, all those things I sure was 32 I thought it was just unlimited. There. Isn't it well the, message, maximum, message size is 32 Q so there was no limit at the beginning but there there's, an implicit limit, of 32 do make it was because that's as big as a mess message. That could be sense. All. Right all right so okay we've had our we've had our SV debate. Of the day. Let's. Let's, move on real quick because there was there been other news and I want everybody to you know talk about with what they're doing to. Jack. Dorsey bringing, a Bitcoin, to the masses is this, is this a big deal or Sarah, did you even hear about this that the Twitter founder, okay. So you're not gonna. Chris. You do is this a big deal oh. I. Think it's great. I mean people, the smart, people that it built successful, companies like Jack Dorsey, that, are playing, around with laning our org that's awesome right and. You. Know I could, see it being really disruptive, actually. That's the point I should get that's the point I should get out of this he participated. In the, the. Lightning torch relay, where, everybody's, sending, Bitcoin, over the Lightning Network to to one another, which. Is, from. It's a way of promoting the Lightning Network as a as. A, tool of sending, small little, transactions. Sarah. Do you have thoughts on that. No. I like. Network. We have it working at the Bitcoin Embassy. We've. Been using it a lot or having a workshop to install it next week but. Yeah. I think it's really cool I mean it's really nice to see Lightning Network catching, on pretty fast, and they're, working pretty smoothly. I mean it's really it's really cool I didn't, expect that when I got into Bitcoin to have like you know, media. Transactions. Well. For. Those of you who have been familiar with the last three shows that Laureen has been on now. You will know you, can already anticipate, with, Laurie and is going to say about Lightning Network take it away. So. It's always great when you. Know public personalities, to about Bitcoin Olivette you know and it certainly does get people into it even if they have heard. Of it and being suspicious as soon as somebody like jackal know some megastar says something about Bitcoin, you know that's perfect you know we we want the world to to start becoming familiar, with it and of course adoption. Always you, know is comes.
Through Media. Personalities, and influences, and so on yeah, so I mean there's a pretty history link lightning but apart, from that it's great, okay. You. Do not have to do that alright so moving movie. God weave, be gone. What we got here we talked about member, Chris did you want to add anything to the member wendel stuff since you are working with nimble limbal oh, I. Mean, no the main, thing I was gonna say is, you, know we're working on this MWC. Coin with andy hoffman if you get a chance to go back and watch Adams video from Saturday, to get the full details on what we're doing but, basically, we're doing an airdrop where, people, could register to. Get a middle-level, point, you. Know we, the. Reason I started. Is because you. Know I was just looking into the green project, and I, thought the technology, was really interesting, but the problem I had with it was that. Basically. There's no supply cap and I made some comments on their kit up asking. Them about the supply cap and I got, response, I get my mag issue got closed in two hours like the lead developers, saying, that, you. Know we're. Just not going to put this in our coin I wish I had open this is the first issue it closed it right away but he didn't address the substance of, what I was saying and so I decided you know hey I'm gonna make my own version of this. Minimal, coin that, has, a supply cap and then you, know I thought you know the, best way to do it would be to do this airdrop where we give it out and reward, Bitcoin holders you, know we've got some criticism, for that saying that we're doing something bad but, you. Know if, you look at you. Know I just, think the Bitcoin holder should be able to get you, know this, to play around with you, know in not. Just how it limited to like. What, the other offerings are. And you, know so we're working on this project and, if, you watch that video there's full details on what we're doing. Experimentation. Well actually on, us on a similar topic what, do you think about the Z cache, vulnerability. It's. Pretty alarming yeah, I mean, you. Know I mean this could happen to any protocol, I suppose but you, know I, guess. One of the things that I noticed is the people the people behind it said oh don't worry about this no, one knows, no one could figure this out anyways. And I was, kind of suspicious like why are all these government's, and you know government, more government related people okay, with Z cache of, all the privacy coins it seemed like it was kind of a favorite privacy point and maybe, we have the reason here I don't know. Maybe. There you don't think you don't think this you think this vulnerability, was planned, you. Think you're, suspicious of that oh. Crap. Here, I. Still. Hear you oh you still hear me good Sarah. No. What. Happened, she's. About to go wild on Z cache for us here. Well. We'll. Keep that in mind we'll keep that in mind okay remember. When Sarah gets back we're gonna ask her about Z cache for now I want Lorien to discuss sent, B what he's doing in South Africa. Yes. Sir. We've got st. be running on Bitcoin sv I'm proud, to say and, it's. It's, working great we're getting tons of users from all around the world you, know we like emerging, economies and people who who. Aren't, you. Know what, we see in the Twittersphere, and. Also. We've got some cool products we've got a very. Cool product right now that you can go down to. About. 250,000. Retailers in the country and. You can go and buy bitcoin sv with cash over the counter so it's, a it's a voucher product so it means that the retailer doesn't know they're selling Bitcoin. What you do is you take your sent you wallet down there you. Handle the cash and immediately. Bitcoin, is loaded onto your phone so it's a great way to get people who've. Never used Bitcoin into the system and they don't have to worry about exchanges, and don't worry about that sort of stuff so we're very excited about that. All. Right you're you're working. On day-to-day. Transactions. Down there which is a big thing I mean that's that's. What you've been into, this entire time getting, people to use cryptocurrency. So, I mean, you've stuck you've stuck with your basics, there all right what's, yeah, you got a hand to tick you hasn't changed dudes all, right Sarah sorry. I see, your shark can, you hear me now yeah. All. Right said so. You were about to talk about I asked, you we.
Were Talking about the Z cash Waller ability, that was found you. Think that was programmed, in there you think that was possibly. Could I mean when it first came out the, says that if someone gets the secret, code they need to destroy they can have secret inflation, I don't know if this cut of this this bag was back to the same thing but I mean in crypto, currency, and money if so we can steal money you need to assume that they're gonna do it because I mean why wouldn't they want to and especially. Like Z Kasia it's not true I know exactly how to explain to my I felt lady was slightly suspicious, the. Project, they made a hole like, song dance. About having this, ceremony. Which, afterwards. Was discovered, wasn't very effective, they kind of felt like a lot of cedar and I like, don't like in crime not in cryptocurrencies, so, I did trust some people to. Do something right so there will be a gazillion where coins like devalue, my currency doesn't make any sense and that's one of the things I really, didn't like about sea cash is that that that thing is possible I think that's. Like. You, don't want to cook the currency like that well. You know it's out Edward, Snowden said this is great that they caught this this, shows why. Is. A shill prezi catcher like he's like the like the last show on Twitter you can see I'm showing Zika babies part of their. Command. He said it was great that the founders, got a founders, fee because he can catch things like this since they weren't being compensated they wouldn't call, they were in the caucus. All, right now. All. Right now Sarah I've got I've, got more questions for you uh well. I mean you're, you're here in Tel Aviv you've, got you've been involved in Bitcoin for a while you've got a very unique perspective here, you've spoken, you. Spoke in Asia, what was that act like the, negative. Bloggers there's, something about there was women from Asia coming to Israel I just. Speak though in Europe. Well. Tell. Us your, unique perspective here, as you know there's, not that many ladies around, yeah, you've uh you. Addressed this before but and, then you you had to live you had to go through that Israeli. Conference where that guide gave that uh oh. I. From, the Israeli government, was a real jerk he was making jokes about not enough women being at the conference. Like. Oh so, you guys don't come here to hit on women huh. But. Yeah, it's it's, definitely a, challenge I've, learned a lot about difference, between men and women, I think we need like much more women in the space because, there's some things women usually naturally, do like they'll, be more friendly they'll make sure people like to organize events like, that I don't. Know my perspective, is I like I was interested in Bitcoin I was surprised there was a small amount of women I've. Been the. Volunteering. At the Bitcoin embassy for about three years in Tel Aviv and they're, doing a lot of really great stuff I. Mean. We're open like we're. Open, six. Days a week you, get technical help. There. Also we. Have like a hackathon on here, the, organized talk like, that. Is. Really have a place to go and just hang out and talk and it's, like it's like really really nice and the big Heart Association and, there's also doing a really good job like, almost, everything that happens about because in the news they, have the head of the Bitcoin Association, on television, or in the newspaper they're, like a PR company they're, you know they have working for them and. They. Like you know he goes to talks to the Bank of Israel he, talks to like all these different companies and a girl's a, so. Disabled, they're like, and. There's like a pretty good amount of activity, in community, I don't know like when it affects in the in the in the big picture I think like maybe a lot more Israelis bought, it because there's like so, much activism, here and. The big business, across from the stock exchange is really cool yes. It is, in every, and I'm there every Sunday you were there most. Yeah. Every Sunday they meet there it's really fun and you do get to meet get. There's some different perspectives and, they're guys and gals there there's technical, non-technical, there's, there's. Alex. Alright. So and you said something about bringing more ladies to the space I mean, I think it'll come naturally for time III, know I don't think it should be forced, I mean anyone could do what they want to do. I. Mean. Everyone leads everyone, has something they can contribute you, setting, about planning, they can plan better you think. She. Was like I'm also organizing events what else will do it so maybe.
Like The program or guys they're, not the kind of people that are gonna like organize, advance people to meet and like communicate, like they're less aware of like there's a new guy let's be nice to him maybe is like worth getting, to know stuff like that I noticed that it's. Not like complete but I noticed that women tend to be a little bit more oriented. Socially, sociable, social, creatures, social. But the funny thing is that you are like you, I've got the technical skills, up the I mean we're, talking about ladies at being social, and in making it easier, for people to understand you're gay you've got technical skills. Kind of irritating. Some people think because I organize the fan they're like oh she doesn't, know anything about it she looks like organizing events because, because obviously I don't know you don't like nothing. It's all part of it it's sometimes you get like a weird attitude from people I think that after being such a long time in this space I've learned to, like I don't. Know how to explain it but I think it's like the, more I kick a game more, self-confidence. About like, what I know and what I understand, so also. Like people, like around the men also like they they can see it see it so. They also less disrespectful. To me I have, gotten a lot of. That was like can be very hurtful you, shouldn't get hurt by it so like. I like, I was like I was, part, of the organization, of like the last, 2-pack of Oz for Bitcoin and I was in the judging, team the last ones obviously I know something, and so, then there's like this guy that was in the hackathon, and like I meet him later like I judged his project, and like sit down if I just explain to me what, what's. Up bleep because. I know this for. Actually. Really offended. But. You, feel, yeah. Yeah well you you do have the technical skills, and it's. It's it's impressive and there's a there's a lot of dudes there with, a lot of technical skills I will say this you know we need, more marketing, people we them men male, or females, people, who ma