This week in Bitcoin- 12-29-2017- BTC in 2018, crypto stories of 2017, Lightning network

This week in Bitcoin- 12-29-2017- BTC in 2018, crypto stories of 2017,  Lightning network

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G13. Hello. Everyone. This. Is adam. Meister the, bitcoinmeister. The. Disrupt, meister. Welcome. To. This. Week, in. Bitcoin. The last one of the year today, is. December. The. 29th. 2017. Long term thinking. Don't. Be impulsive people. 2020. Having it's it's getting closer regardless of 2018, all right remember. Check out the link section below yet last night's show I just did like 12 hours ago you gotta watch it it's been good lately, it's been wild I've been talking about crypto dividends, check out the links below to get t-shirts like this from cryptography, D treasurer, ledger nano we have crypto a telecom. Let's jump right into this you guys know Paul capistan e anti Zen you, don't know Russell Spears yet he's here too he's new to the panel and we're here to wrap it up so we got a tech guy a trading, guy McTell, awesome, philosophy, dude, Russell's, all over the place so let's start out with. The, year is coming to the end an end here, Oh tae Zheng what. Was the story of 2017. For you well the biggest thing what was the biggest thing the biggest thing for me thanks. For having me on the show, Adam. Meister make, sure you guys pound that like button guys found that like button found that like button, okay, alright, so, the, biggest thing for 2018. In. My opinion, was the, the. Idea. Of the airdrop you know, coins. Are air-dropping you know left and right you know they're parachuting, out of the air and people. Think that you know the you know and this is going to continue you, know we, call it baby bitcoins, and you guys you, call it I. Want, to give it credit you for coming with the term a crypto dividend so, if anybody use that term it was a bitcoin. Meister here that came up with that terminology he. Was the first, in the original wouldn't come up with that and, we think that that trend is going to continue this, trend, of air dropping because. If you, know, eliminates. The need for securities. Issues, and a bunch of other legal, issues and it's. A quick, a quick, down and dirty way. To, steal. Somebody else's community. When you didn't build your own community for your own coin you, know I'm saying so it's, a way to just hop. Into someone else's community, and start a coin so I believe this trend is going to continue and. It. Was only a matter of time most, of the air. Drops were going outwards meaning that it would start from Bitcoin, and it would branch out into other baby bitcoins, but, we'll, get into this later on when you bring up about Z classic, there, the first coin to, airdrop. Inwards, meaning, that they're gonna airdrop, from a different chain into, the Bitcoin blockchain and we, asked our team actually have the idea to do that but, these guys beat us to it so you, know God kudos, to a rep and his team you know for being the first ones to airdrop. In words into Bitcoin instead of outwards so I think that's the biggest, I. Don't, you know what you call it Tran idea. Or philosophy. Or trend, that's gonna be moving forward right. Is, the area okay. Paul what was your 20 what was your big thing for 2017. What was the big, news for you this year yeah. So I have, to agree with ty, basically. At. Least in my mind one of the big. Sort. Of unanswered, questions going in so this year was, like. What, would happen if sort, of one of the worst-case scenarios happen which is Bitcoin, forking. That. Was something that I, guess. As a tech guy really, worried. Made. Me wonder, if people would, sort. Of. Not. Take. This tech seriously, because. As we now see there. Are basically, Forks, happening almost every day is what, it seems like and so, that that always worried me because a, lot of this is just based, on what people think not necessarily the. Strength of the tech and, yeah. The be cash fork, really, had me freaked out and I, would say that was also my. Big story of the year Wow. It, all turned out great hey pound, that like button people so, let's, let's see a Russell here what was your what was your 2017, thing I think it might be similar to these guys, indeed. It is I think the most important, thing that actually happened, was us getting over the fear of these forks and and I, have to say listening to your show it really got me to think differently about them, especially. Given, the prevailing, kind of attitude, at the time but. Make no mistake about it you know whether, or not we have the tech and the innovation, in this space yet, it, will.

Not Matter I think at the end of the day because it is an open and decentralized, system, and when, we start implementing, a lot of these Forks both I guess an airdrop. Into, Bitcoin. Which, is actually, new to me but, these, normal, air drops as well, you're. Gonna see a kind of in my opinion I call, it the Bitcoin Hydra I know you've mentioned it earlier but. It's. A thesis it's a simple one that the most simple. The. Most powerful. The most. Structurally. Complete. System. Is going to be a multi, token, system where all possible. Innovations, going to start occurring on a simple chain that's anchored, to a value, a. Good. Store value and that's Bitcoin, and so, yeah there's going to be a lot of attempts, to Fork and in fact one, of them is a B. Cache. Version. That's gonna be forked, off from Bitcoin Bitcoin. Plus am i right with, it that that's just the name it actually be, cash plus yeah, from, bit its forked from Bitcoin it's very confusing, and. That's perfect, and I think that's the beautiful part of this is, that even the innovation, and the points that they think that they have an advantage on Bitcoin is gonna be a part of this multi token, system. Yeah. We're gonna have to start. Marketing. The idea, that, Bitcoin, Plus is the real Bitcoin cash. Dude. It's where it's getting confusing out there in crypto dividend, land all right well so I I love, that what you've been talking about about this is just calling it a Bitcoin Hydra, and in the whole thesis if people could check out his channel and all these other guys links below it is all linked to below always check out the links section below so let's say Russell what do you think this is gonna continue to 28:18. What do you think the big story of 2018, is gonna be or is that just totally unpredictable no, I think that's gonna continue to be the biggest story is like, you know again, what's, gonna make this important. And significant. Is that people, who actually have, the initial, investment, in Bitcoin, continue. To hold their, investment, in all of these other areas and I agree with you you know if you're gonna spend something spend an altcoin not your Bitcoin because. Again, that, will give you buy-in to everything, that's happened, but don't just blow, them away guys because. The next Satoshi could be innovating, right now on a fork. Of this of this Bitcoin in. 2018. Yeah. Russell's, a little bit he I thought I'd like try to get as much big court as possible from your crypto dividend Russell's, like you know wait a second some of these might there might be hold, on to them but, again you don't get rid of your Bitcoin because you get if you get rid of your Bitcoin you get rid of the opportunity, to get more of these things you cut down on the other hand so he's absolutely right ties. N what do you think the trends are gonna be in 2018, is there something unexpected, all coming a lot whether it probably is of course there is but can you predict the unexpected, right here today. There's. One trend that's coming in there's. A couple of trends that I expect, one. Is that on the on, the. The crypto. Side I believe there's going to be a thousand, more youtubers, like us coming online. There's. Gonna be a thousand, of them a day back, when you, know I first started there was only a handful. Of channels you can just pretty much remember, everybody, I and, whose broadcast, and who's talking about what and now we're getting flooded, with people, and a, lot of them you know I don't, understand how they came to be you know Bitcoin, blockchain. Experts. When they just bought the first Bitcoin and don't even have a whole Bitcoin yet just.

Last Week that's, going to be the first trim I know it's tickling, you to death man. Guys. I mean, it's like a little. Kid bought at a point what bitcoins, like I got, some good graphics here, you got it people, listen to well I think what we have to remember is that this flooding, in of all of these four coins are gonna flood out all these alt coins that are hostile. Coin. There's, gonna be a fork, of dogecoin. Okay. I can monitor those going to the moon. It's. Gonna be one of these 2080 predictions, okay go back to my. Other prediction, is this my. Other prediction, is that, institutional. Money and Wall Street is now pouring, in I would. Say that. 2017. Is the, year, that. Bitcoin. Is, legitimately. Legitimate. Now it was legitimate among. All of us already okay, but. 2017. Is the first time in, bitcoins. History, where it's been legitimized. By the mainstream, press by the Wall. Street by everyone, right, to where mom, and pops now you, you, can be confident, in telling your, friend or your mom and pops and say hey when you buy Bitcoin it's not a scam it's safe it's cool you know it's legit because before to this to 2017. You know you still have to tell people you know you. Know just be, careful you know and everything but now you can say with full force right and I. Think that there's gonna be a lot more money coming in to to. The crypto space and not just Bitcoin alone but, into the altcoin space and, everything now you know full disclosure I'm a trader, so I trade every coin I have no bias towards any you, know like you know bitcoinmeister, here, the fact that his name is Bitcoin Meister you really know where his bias is so, that's, what I think other teach wins more. Broadcasters. Talking, about blockchain and crypto and more. And a ton more institutional. And Wall, Street and what, I call, traditional. Money, from. The IRA and, 401ks. They are going to get drain and they're not gonna be happy with that I hope, you know that that's not a bias that's long-term thinking long. Term. Goal. In home and put, that like button go. Him. Somebody. Needs to make and a profile, a silhouette, of a demise you're doing this right, and put goal and hold, on it and I will support, it right. Straw. Him. I've. Got some I've got some t-shirts with, that now first, of all as you can see tie. And I have, a lot of energy I mean we are but some, of the people are so unhealthy. There there like you guys must be old coke you got ties, in I I mean we're healthy dude I mean he's. A drunk. Man, if you body in at Bitcoin four years ago you'd, have the same energy that me and Adam Meister has okay, I remember. This is I remember I died, laughing there, was a video that. Adam. Meister made, I don't know how many years ago one, of his first videos that got me to pay attention to him right, first I respect, the fact that he doesn't give a crap what anybody else say I always respect people that follow their own way okay the, second thing was he neither video. About. Instead. Of drinking a can of soda or something like that and getting, diabetes you, should take that 50 cents of that dollar and, put it into a Bitcoin, cuz you'll be happier, and healthier. Yeah. Yeah, you know in fact you know thinking, long-term about your, life financially, is absolutely. Stupid if you're not thinking long-term about your, health or the, type of relationships. You create especially. For, men yes. And, so tie that video I made like in 2015, so, indeed if you, if you didn't, buy sodas, for like a few weeks you spent a hot, $250. On Bitcoin back then it would have bought you a whole Bitcoin, and you didn't, have $15,000. $40,000, in a Bitcoin now I mean that's, life-changing money, yeah, people thought that was funny and stuff but, dude so I I, got, healthier, and I got richer, and if people were to listen to me hey but, wait let's go to Paul Paul has been quiet Paul, I want to ask you it's, a double question again what. Do you think the trends of 2018, are gonna be and then, tell, us about what you're doing with the Lightning Network and what do you see with Lightning Network in 2018. And 2019, sure. So, I, think. 2018. Is going to actually be. A, year. Where, the. Stuff that I'm working on which is Lightning Network stuff will come, into play potentially. In a big way, for, example like. Weave we all know about the like Bitcoin, stealing, debate that, last of the past three four years or whatever which. Ended up resulting in be cash working, off and now all the other forks I.

Think. We're going to see. For. Real now which approach, is the, correct approach and. Lightning, Network will play, heavily into that because. Even. Though I, personally try, not to spend my Bitcoin as much as possible since. I'm all-in on Bitcoin I'm forced to and. The. Transaction. Fees and, the, slowness and congestion of the network has actually been a. Legitimate. Real, if you. And. Basically. The, be cash folks and, king of the trolls think, that. Making. Like, a highway adding. Extra lanes to a highway is the way to sort, of solve. That traffic congestion, problem. But. Really if you think about lightning network the, way it works is sort, of imagine. A bunch, of people are stuck in a traffic jam on a big highway. But. You happen to have like a drone and you, can take that drone and jump. Anywhere you want so you can basically fly, over, all the traffic and that's. Sort. Of a overly. Simplified, way, of thinking about lightning Network but, that's sort of how I'm. Trying. To approach, explaining. It to people but, yeah I'd be curious to hear from you guys how. Much do you know about what's. Like. What lightning Network entails, what. Because I'm like deep. Deep in the weeds as. Adam, said I'm a tech guy so. I'd love, to be able to address, any concerns I've, heard of people like spreading, FUD about. Lightning, being sort of a system of i/o use which, is definitely definitely. Not, I've. Heard stuff about people thanking that there's the. Potential for like, printing. Money out of thin air or having fractional, reserve banking which. There, definitely isn't, everything, is a legitimate real, 100%. Valid. Bitcoin, transaction. It's, just that, basically. People are creating although, all of these is valid Bitcoin transactions, but never. Broadcasting. Them into the main Bitcoin, blob training. And that's sort of how you can have this office gain off, chain, scaling, happen, so, yeah I pictures. To hear any. Questions you guys might have about it well.

Could I actually just make a statement. All. Of this emphasis on having. A medium of exchange I think is a little misplaced. We. Need to actually have a store value and if. I have a decent, store value, and I can use any kind of Fiat it doesn't matter if I'm using the same Bob way dollar at the worst time in their history you. Know as long as I can transact, within that second, or week or what have you um. We're, I think lightning, may be interesting. And this is something, that you'll consider is actually. Creating at all a fork, of, Bitcoin. Implementing. Your lightning rather than looking for consensus. And demonstrating. Its value to everybody. Interesting. Well. So. You. Don't really need to well you definitely don't need to fork a Bitcoin to have lightning we. Have, lightning working on Bitcoin today. Already. And, it's. Working on litecoin. As well and I think there's work on other all coins for. Enabling. Lipping transactions, so, yeah we there's, no actual, need for a fork but speaking, of Forks. Be. Cash actually. Cannot, implement, lightning, because they specifically, decided. Not to, house. I quit and Segway, is they, were like a hard requirement. To be able to have lightning transactions. And so, that's gonna get very interesting, when. They. If. They, ever end up getting spammed on their train and then, they, have no real way to scale. It out that's. Going to be interesting potentially, I think, everybody's, go ahead they would have to hard for this but. They get hard for easier, I mean you, have a dictatorship, over that's the centralized, oh yeah yeah, tomorrow. Yeah. So, here's, my question for, you about lightning, Network Paul. And, it's, hard to get a lot, of people think that because I'm a trader and I trade every coin out there that. I have something against Bitcoin, and I have nothing against big coin I actually want, Bitcoin to succeed right if, Bitcoin does what it's supposed to do I'd be happy to sell all my old coins and put it all back in the Bitcoin because, when I first started I put all my life savings into bitcoins over four years ago that's, what I started I didn't start off with all coin it's not with Bitcoin okay here's. My question to you so, I want Bitcoin succeed, a lot of people think that when I say that bitcoins transactions, are slow or things like that you. Know they think that I'm not I'm against Bitcoin so I'm not I'm for because I want Bitcoin succeeds I don't have to buy all these other all points and use them okay but you know what when, I first started four and a half years ago Bitcoin. Was free transactions. Or near free and it's near instant transactions, and now I have to pay eighty eight dollars to one hundred four dollars for a transaction okay, and no one can tell me that, that is a good thing, when. I first started my ailing huh that, was a function of that blockchain, scaling, okay, so and, I understand, that I understand that but here's my question to you all right I have, nothing against lightning Network I hope it works I wanted, to work so that people stopped paying these high fees I don't want to be paying eighty, eight dollars for a transaction, okay. For, a business transaction that hurts our business okay, so. Here's, the thing right. Why. Can't we like. Between. The Bitcoin, cash people, and the Bitcoin core people right and. I don't favor either one I just want it to work okay. Why. Couldn't, we. And. You're the first person I've talked to that appears to be neutral. And where, I can ask a valid, question about, Bitcoin in the Lightning Network right, it. Takes time to implement the Lightning Network during. This whole time right, what. Why couldn't we scale, up to a bigger block size while. We were working on implementing, Lightning Network well, why couldn't, we do that just to reduce a congestion, and we decrease. The fees and everything so we don't lose people, because we're losing people would. Lose businesses, are getting hurt because I mean, like no one wants to pay eighty eight dollars or twenty bucks or 50 bucks for a transaction, fee yeah, I I agree just. The other day, did. You guys see that Bitcoin. Billionaire rap. That was, going around it was pretty awesome but. At the end of that video the. Guy had a QR code where. It turned out it was a real. Bitcoin. QR code and so, I decided to send him some money and. It. Ended up costing me I think 30. Bucks, and fees and I sent like 10 bucks as the, donation, so, I 100%. Agree that, the. Transaction. Fees situation, is a little, bit crazy. But. Then again we. When. That happened we were under one, of basically. Deep ashes my. Opinion, sort of attacks, against, Bitcoin which, was they were spreading a bunch of thud on the, Bitcoin. Subreddits, they. Were. There was also happened to be at the same time a difficulty. Adjustment, in both. Bitcoin, and B cash. Which, may be cash more profitable, for the miners and at, the same time there.

Was A bunch of spam being thrown sports Bitcoin, so, all these things together oh and, that. Was the day that coinbase, and, released. The cash on their. Exchange, so, all those things together, sort. Of seemed like yeah. Maybe they could be a coincidence but, they seemed like a coordinated. Attack basically. And. So you have to take that into consideration when. You're thinking about yeah. Okay there were high fees at certain points in time, but. Totally. Agree that that. Should be the case, man. Three years Paul four years every time I meet somebody and I and I you know evangelize, people about, Bitcoin I would just pull out my coinbase wallet, and the first thing I would have him do is hey just look download, coinbase or bread wall and let me just send you five bucks with the big one real for. Yourself let's, not even talk about it just open up your why let me just send you firebox and lately. For the last year so I can't do that no more but that's not a problem with Bitcoin that is a problem in general with blockchain, technologies, that's, why this Segway is a solution, and that's also why we are allowing, the scaling, debate to get us all that worse right, traitor, or you could be a Bitcoin, trader you, know what I mean yeah, it's like you know you, we haven't focused, the most important, part of this technology and, acid decentralized. Nature is the permission lessness it's, you know it's being. You. Know yeah I understand, all that stuff but I mean I'm not new to Bitcoin my question of pause since he's a tech guy right is why. Couldn't we find a medium, like let's say that we bump it up to two or four make a box of megabyte blocks right, while, we are in Finland so that the throughput, is increased, and there's. New fees that we do why couldn't we do that right, and I'm not I'm not being sarcastic or, smart as done I'm just asking like why couldn't you technically, yeah, we work on implementing, layer, 2 solutions, like lightning Network on top okay so the. Most. Basic, straightforward. Answer, is a. Hard. Fork requires, everyone. To change. Their. Software. That they're running it, basically, forces, everyone, to update. Their software otherwise. They. Are incompatible, they, like, you're not using Bitcoin anymore if there, have been I mean, be cash did it right because literally did this they bumped, up the. Block. Size and. To. Use be cash you need totally. Different software right there are be cash wallets. There are specific, I mean be cash is a totally, different currency so the. Issue. At. All points in time with, just, like, bumping, up the size of the blocks was, that. It literally. Creates. A different currency the. Thing that to me is cool. About Bitcoin, is, that. It sort of forces, everyone, to agree to the same rules and if. You disagree, you're. Off in your own parallel. Universe, like Roger, is, right, like if, you disagree, with basically. The reality, of the original, Bitcoin, consensus. Rules then. You're, not using Bitcoin, so, that's, like, yeah it seems like a simple solution to bump up the block. Size but we. Saw there was a real-world experiment, of what happened you get a totally, different currency, and you. Know why it's only because we politicize, this whole issue of using as a currency we. Want we need to use it as a dam. As a bar. Of gold right. Consider, a bar gold you don't, completely.

Disagree With that I completely, if you go back you know I don't know how long you've been in a crypto, Russell, you know but, if you go back to the early videos from 2009. 10 11 12. 13 14 15. There's. Nobody, there's, nobody online. That was talking about Bitcoin. Right, they would talk about how it had micro payments, it have past transactions. New you know fast, confirmations. You know low fees it's gonna you know eliminate. All. These piece. Of a blockchain that didn't exist it did. Exist I don't know how long you've been in crypto, but it was existing, when I got it in 2012. And 13. The. Same problems, eggwin I think is the right solution I've chained many of your people that are on, that same, basis. I am, NOT disagreeing. That segment, or lightning network is not the good solution, but when somebody is telling me in my face that Bitcoin, didn't do all these things before I refuse. To accept that book here was. Doing all these things in. 2012, 13, 14, and 15. Right so I don't know when you guys got into Bitcoin it was doing all these things before so you can't sit there and tell me that I didn't do it okay so it's my life savings, into Bitcoin, because, I saw that what it could do so you guys he didn't do it ty ty I agree. So, I got into Bitcoin in 2013. So I've been around for a while as well and. At. The, time basically. One, of the big figure heads I guess of Bitcoin, was Gavin Andresen right. He was the guy who would, go on all the like TV shows he. Was like the head developer. Of Bitcoin, and he. Was. Basically. The. Guy. Interviewed, in documentaries. And all. Sorts of the media, and what. He was doing which to, mean now looking back on it is pretty. Messed up he, was one who, was sort of over-promising. Saying yeah you, don't have to pay anything for these, transactions, they're instant, blah blah you can buy coffee anywhere. Whatever, he, sort of was over selling in, my opinion. What the tech could do while. Like. He knows he, theoretically. Knew of the limitations, right there's no way that, Bitcoin was I mean, it wasn't incident, back then right there was always ten minute confirmation, times right okay. You you I am, glad that you, know what you. Just said something that I haven't heard from anyone okay. I'm going to share that with big claim misers, audience. You just said something that, I've just heard for the first time, usually. And I'm glad that we have this conversation because, you just you just solved. A lot you just answered, a lot of questions that was in my head but before I share with everyone found, that like button, Golan, Hall right.

Strong. Hand. Guys don't. Be a weekend, alright anyway. What. You just said that Paul you. Just said something that I want the audience to know that was very you. Just said that they. Might have oversold. What. Bitcoin was capable of doing and. No. One has ever said that so, and no one has ever said that to me when, I watch videos from Mike Hearn from having Andreessen from Andreas, Antonopoulos but, everyone. Now. I'm not a tech guy like you are so, if, someone, that is supposed to be the, core developers, the main guys Andreas. Antonopoulos all these guys are supposed to be wizards, and recognized, as the, top engineers. In the top guys, I understand, it technically are saying that this and I, personally. Transferred. Tons of bitcoins back and forth and saw, that was new instant, you know and new zero fees, and everything and what, you're telling me is hey ty at, the time that you were using it it was doing all that but, they have they might have oversold, you on the, fact that when it starts to get more transactions. That there's going to be congestion, slope and it slows down and those micro, payments, are no longer going to be available without some, other, solution, yeah, I appreciate, you saying that because no one has ever said that. Scaling. Bump, to munching and scaling you, understand, right. Yeah but yeah but the difference in what you just said versus what Paul just said because I personally. Experience. A fast, Bitcoin. Network I person. I don't, know how many people I've met and, transferred, five ten bucks to them just so they can see it and we would sit there and translate back into it that's exactly why Bitcoin. The. Be cash group, is having these marvelous. You know times. Themselves. It's because they haven't scale but, by everybody thinks whenever I say, some there's an issue with Bitcoin, everybody thinks that I'm supporting, be cast and there was once that I supported me cast I'm, just saying right I'm not worried about that that's cool all right let's say okay Paul's got something saying that will wrap up this conversation Paul, you were about to say something um yeah. So I guess I. Don't. Necessarily, think it was a malicious, thing, that, sort. Of Gavin Andresen was doing, so. Considering. Sort, of the bad. Ideas. Like, I think that he's had recently, like, saying. That Craig Wright was Satoshi and. Just he's. Done some pretty questionable things, that make me wonder what. The hell he was thinking um but. I don't, think it it was necessarily, a malicious. Thing because, this is pretty. Much the hardest, technology. To. Explain to anyone you sort of have to understand cryptography, you, have to understand economics. Computer science, hell like psychology, you, have to understand a bunch of different. Very. Different, fields. To. Even, begin to sort of wrap your head around what.

This Stuff is and so, I don't necessarily think it. Was like a malicious, or sort, of like like. Car sales and any kind, of thing that Gavin. Was doing in those early days it's, just that it's like hard to explain the nuances, right of like hey, actually. Those. Confirmations, are. Never, instant, right you do have to wait the 10 minutes like that doesn't fit into a soundbite and I think I think what you're dealing with those system, complexity, the human brain isn't good with this stuff yeah. Look at, the end of the day you know you. Can be an expert in something and only, that thing or you, can be a generalist, and try to understand, it in a more. Vague way and I, think that we need both these voices, what you're saying, needs to echo with people we need to take that and consider it you know but. You know having yourself, obsessing, over code all day isn't, gonna give you the time to invest, into thinking about it in a lot of different ways so it does take people from the investment, side it does take people from the psychology side, and he'll even make tell when we talk about that soon. All. Right good so I did we I think we got I mean this is going to be some is such, a huge talking. Point, such a huge, issue this, we'll be talking about 2018. Support, and I urge people not to like spend, too much time worrying about it let it let it play out we gotta you, know it, always does take up a lot of time yes. Here's, my question for pause so when. Can we expect. Lightning. Network to, come. Online when can we expect to, be able to use it so. Lightning Network is already. Basically. It's, live on test net so just. To clarify for people who may not know. Bitcoin. You. Can do Bitcoin transactions, on what's called the main network, so maintenance is, one. Of the Bitcoin networks. But there's also something that we, developers, use called test net which is what, it sounds like you have test, coins that are worth noting and so you can do. All sorts of crazy things on test net and. The. Lightning Network has, been working, for months. Already on, test net and in. Fact there have been actual, lightning transactions, on main net so, Bitcoin, proper as, well but. One. Thing that I guess non-technical. People should, take into account is that this. Is money right like, if you screw anything up like, this, is irreversible. Transactions, there's no backsies. Right like there's no, saying. Whoops I actually, want my money back so, the. Folks, working on lightning network are. Basically. Some of the most hardcore people, in. Terms of like technical, knowledge and expertise, I've, seen. And they. Are making damn. Sure that, everything, is, thoroughly. Tested. That. There are no, ways that. Things can go wrong and. I. Mean. Like. I said there, have been lightning, network transactions, on maintenance, already so this is not like vaporware, that's a lot of you yeah I understand but it's. It's a main net for the tech guys like you when does a non-technical, person like, me able. To use it well realistically I don't don't don't, let's not let's not repeat the same mistake Aven, and Andreas and all those guys that you said you know that could have could have had I'm not saying you make accusations but they could have over exactly or oversold, asan, we're. Gonna have to wait for the institutions, in the wallets and the infrastructure, to start adopting yes so so so what when is a realistic, time frame that. Realistically. Call, us knowing days, yeah. Let me check my crystal, ball over here, it's. There's, it's hard to know. And. By the way I would say that. Andreas. Wasn't. One of the folks who was we were selling Bitcoin just for the record he, has, always been pretty damn good about being, nuanced, and. It. Was mostly Gavin, in my opinion yeah I, mean I used to listen to andreas. On the, let's. Talk Bitcoin network yeah, and, they used to say to me and maybe, I'm not technical, enough to understand it but my. Perspective, is that they used to say the same things about not, Bitcoin back then well, how. Fast it was how it was able, to be accessible by everyone low. Cost fees you know fast transactions. Fast confirmations. Things like that. Like. You're struggling with these real, actual, attributes, of blockchain, now by. Look. Focusing, on this the, transaction. Rate and the, fees and everything your again, your, stole I think think it within that old blockchain. I. Mean look let's let's make this clear man I'm trying to understand this lightning Network and Bitcoin and you're knocking me or not understanding Bitcoin there I Love, You Man don't worry no no no listen man if I buy an airplane I expect it to fly if I'm a motorcycle, I expect it to drive if I buy into electronic, cash system I expect, it to work like an electronic cash man we're in the right brother stage, they tell, me that Oakland, I know you just bought an airplane but hey you can't fly only rolling I just heard about it in the news and and the Wright brothers just flew the airplane, yeah.

Quickly. Engine, here but let's not insult my intelligence by, with that nonsense man okay give me a chance to ask Paul a guy, that's work on lightening that world so I can understand it better than okay, what is your conservative, estimate. A man. Like just conservatively, when can the, non-technical. Population. Expect. To, to. Be able to use. Lightning, Network okay, so that that's an awesome, question and, I, actually would love to hear. Like feedback from you guys so basically in. Order to do a lightning Network transaction. You need, to have a, wallets. That is capable. Of doing one right and. That's. Gonna be interesting right because. The. Really major wallets, are sort of like. Coinbase and. Like. Blockchain, info apparently, has millions, of wallet, holders and, it. Turns out that they seem to be more on the B cash side, of, things then. I would, like at least so. To. Me it's not clear that those, big players well. Actually I think they. Are, actively. Sort, of against, the whole concept of the Lightning Network because, it really, really. Potentially. Fundamentally. Changes, the way their, business models work I think that Bitcoin kind of pointed that out didn't, he I mean he's like look get a couple competent, coders on this, and three months later coinbase can have it yeah, but, I I have a feeling that they, may be incentivized, to, not. Ever. Implement. Segway. Or Lightning Network because, it, really, can fundamentally, change, the way they do business and I think that's sort of a big, part of the quote-unquote. Like debates, like, the whole block size thing that maybe, non-technical. People, may. Have not wrap their heads around which, is that. These, big, players have. Ways that they do business and they have technical. Infrastructure, in place. Where things, work. Fine now right so why expend any effort, into, sort, of updating. And like, basically. Adapting, to change they're, gonna respond, to threats and and, I think if square ends up adopting this which, I think if they want to take the, the. Position. Of coinbase in this space they, can go ahead and just implement. Segwayed, on that their. Application, what they're doing and join base out of the picture I mean basically, I think it may require like. Completely. New players, to emerge. Out of the woodwork basically, and. Somehow. They, need to it. Has to be some, company some wallet provider. That. Enables. Lightning Network transactions, and they, have to get like network effect because lightning. Network transactions, are. Only instance. With. Other people, using a lightning Network wallet, right, so we - one of these. Really. Easy to, download maybe. Apps. That. Maybe. Are very just as popular adopting. This segment, and just, really undercutting. So I mean it seems like we're moving away from coinbase, anyhow, and just using as an on-ramp yeah well I mean as, item, always says it's. Not good to keep your money, on an, exchange, or, something like coinbase where, if they. Control the keys the, private keys then it's not really your money they. Could just do whatever the heck they want with that. I'm. Just curious right. Lately. I've been having to ask this question with, people that I talk to you know like, so. Paul do. You have a business that accepts, Bitcoin, as payment. Well. I'm working. On a start-up and yeah, it. Will definitely be accepting Bitcoin as payment it, will be all. Right. Now in 2017. Do you have a business that actually, accepts, Bitcoin, as payments, on. A. Regular basis maybe not you, know every, minute or every hour but like you know consistent. Enough to say that hey my business accepts Bitcoin as payments no I do not and you know that's not the litmus test here no no. Sound like king of the truck that's the king of the trolls question, there that's no no. We're. Getting to I mean come on guys we let's. Get to the point real quick Elizabeth, you just it's becoming like a interview, with king of the trolls that's what this is what he said he starts, out I'm just I'm, just I'm just because. We actually have a business that accepts, Bitcoin Bitcoin, as payment we say accept all crypto crimes it's not just Bitcoin, oh we even accept dogecoin, or anything is clean right so, I'm.

Just Curious when I talk to people you know so that I can understand. Understanding, of where they're at, you know I'm, asking, questions about Lightning Network because, I'd want to use it I want to test it out so I can be put back on it and stuff yeah I'm just not getting it clearly let's get let's just let's conclude with the Lightning Network right, now with Paul just giving, an estimate for, when there's going to be an easy. Way. To use it and whether. It be an, interactive, site or, whatever. It is either all it's sunk, when do you think I mean I don't think it's from, what I've heard it's. Gonna be complex, in 2018, still and maybe in 2019, that's what I have surmised and. Everything I've heard but Paul tell us what you think yes so if people want, to play around with Lightning Network today, as. I, said it's. Working. On the test net so there. Are wallets, that you can download and, right. Now like if you google SAP like. Wallet. That, is one, of the. One. Of them all upset a lot of people are starting to play around with there's, also one called Eclair which is on. Android, if. You want a mobile wallet and there. Are. Various. Other ones in development. Like. IOS and just, all, sorts of different. Platforms. But. Again, you. Can download these and play, around with it but it's gonna be on test net so not. On main that yet I. Am. NOT, one of the like. Core, protocol. Developers, those. Are. The. Folks who are basically. They're. The ones who are deciding when. They're comfortable with, rolling. This stuff out on main that, in. Just, just for the record who those people so that for computer, security reasons. Who, are the people developing, the, Lightning Network wallet, and who. Should we trust as users, when, they release our wallet like who like, who we. I'm not gonna just trust some random dude that does wheelies is hey I got my T Network wallet now try it out yeah you definitely yeah. You should enter those who. Are the respectable, people out there that we should trust when they release their lightning network wallets so. The lightning, labs, team, is. Basically. The, the folks that. People. Should think of, as sort of the, best. People. To follow and the. Most trustworthy, they, they are the. Folks. Who, basically. Invented the concept of lightning Network as a thing, and.

Like. If you go on github search for lightning, network. Or lightning labs you'll, find them and. Yeah, in terms of just getting a, pine line maybe. It sounds like I'm being evasive. But, it's because, we. Don't know right until. Everyone. Is comfortable with things being a hundred percent secure. It. Could be three, weeks it could be three months right, it's. Unknown and then even, once. Everything. Is like, kosher good to go 100 percent tested, and we were really, really confident that there's no way anything. Can go wrong. And. I respect, that I don't want somebody, to release some BS. Software, that the minute I make a transfer, I lose my, bitcoins I completely, respect that you know yeah. And so lightning labs is the one that that the community accepts, because they're the ones that invented the technology, but. I think it's important, to note that it's, a shame that we, can't rely on coinbase, to be the leader in this. I. Want, to get away from I, just, want to get really I just want to get away from attacking. Claim based on any one individual. About this site with I just want to understand the Lightning Network and, and how to use it and who to trust music, yeah so but going back that's, a great point that Russ brought up. If coinbase, if the big players don't, end up like, incorporating Lightning Network then. I. Mean. It's gonna be even slower than it would normally be right because then, you need these, small companies. That. People. May not have heard of most people may not have heard of today and they. Will need to get enough traction because, again you, in, order for these transactions. To be incidents, it needs to be with another person also, using a lightning Network enabled, wallet so, you have the issue of you, need a network effect right, to take hold if it's, just me using, lightning that's sort of useless because then it's not going to be incident if I'm doing a transaction with any one of you guys and you guys don't have a lightning wallet, then that's, useless so it's, a matter of okay. Once everything is secure. And. It's on main that then, well. We, need to rule this software out like people need to start actually using wallets with it's okay. And then so, when when they release let's say that lightning lab finally, releases, their lightning, wallet right is. That something, that requires, a hard fork for use. Or is that they just release it I download it and I start using it yeah the whole point is basically. To avoid hard Forks right like the whole point of all this like. Crazy civil, war that went on for years about the block size and now, lightning network is that, yeah we don't want people to be. Forced. Into new rules these this is still, Bitcoin transactions. Under. The hood everything is 100% real, Bitcoin valid transactions, there's no money being printed out of thin air there's no hard fort requirements, the rules are the same they've, been from day zero, right. Once it so she first created, Bitcoin and, so. The, only requirement, though is that. You, do, need a wallet that understands. How to do this new kind, of transaction, because I guess something, that many non-technical, people may not realize is that Bitcoin, has a. Programming. Language, in. It right every, transaction is, basically a smart contract that says if. Like. Bob, has, the, private key to this Bitcoin then, you, are able to spend it and so. Every, single, transaction is a, smart, contract of that form and a. Lightning Network transaction, is just a little bit more complicated it, has extra. Rules about okay, if Bob. Hasn't, spent this by this day or it, gets really, deep down into the weeds but basically it, does some magic, which. Is still a 100%, real Bitcoin. But. The. Wallet needs to understand, that yeah, you know what we need to actually encourage, the. People in this space to start adopting this or the very context, for this conversation, matters not. Yeah. I mean it's a free market let's see if they if it's worth their while again, I still. I still wonder how how, necessary, it. Really, is right now how many people, really need, Bitcoin. To go fast and need, to pay cheap transaction, fees Thai obviously, does but.

He And Thai ask the question how many businesses. Right. Now it's not that many it's not the demand, no-one's I mean I cut. It once it's a high demand the free market will create a business, will come out of it that will cater to these people there'll be a lightning network mega power out there and everyone, will be demanding, I mean that or, other governments, could fall back on their their. Jurisdictional. Rights right they're gonna just say hey they're gonna issue a government, fee I and it'll. Act as a currency they'll try to keep it as stable as possible because they're gonna want to attract people actually that'll. Be trading this stuff to even use it and they'll probably force, their merchants, to use it for taxation all this stuff to me the whole currency, thing is not the important, part it's. The fact that it's a store value already, and that, all this innovation could be built around it all, right okay now so okay we're we're getting everyone. Has has stated their stance here on this we're all pretty firm and everything and I thank Paul for answering all the questions a lot, of questions that have been answered, here today people haven't, been answered before I think we did talk about a lot of things that that, you don't hear much about lightning Network and I'm glad that I tried, to put it down onto a simple, non tech, because, there, are a lot most, everyone involved in Bitcoin is not a tech person they, want to know what the heck does lightning thing really is and you know what dates they want dates I mean but it's it's hard to get dates out there so I don't say let's, let's get our conclusion, thoughts about the lightning and everything and then move, on to other stories. You know what else is important, the Polonia x2z classic everything everybody throw it's okay tie closing, stuff with this okay. Talk about Z classic, no no no no with this topic I guess with this I want you to get everyone get their final word and lightning Network then we'll move on oh so. So much I like people keep thinking that I have something against Bitcoin I don't know why I have nothing against me I want to use it but. That's why I've been asking people but about lightning Network where do I use it how do I use it but no one ever gives me a clear answer that's. Why I keep you know you're. One of the first people that you, know that's. Being calm and about, it you know and that's why I keep asking you know hey where do I use it when do I use it if, I can use it right now I would, yeah. Just cool my business you. Know like if we when. Every time I go visit my business partner lian-chu, calm, in Austin it's, always been a tradition for us for, years every, time I go visit him lives, in this high-rise condo, in downtown Austin, there's a whole, Park full of, food trucks and we, get a kick every, time I go there and visit him we go down to the food park with, all the food trucks are at you, know we buy our burritos, with Bitcoin but, and then we buy our burgers with Bitcoin and all those things but you know this, year we're not able to do that anymore that, tradition, has been broken so, I want, to I want, to know where the Lightning network or how, it's used so I can go and tell them hey look you guys can start accepting bitcoins again right, here, it is yeah. So I'm asking you know but every time I feel like every time I asked. You know about the Lightning Network or how to use it or where to use it or how do I get access to it I get, attacked by everyone about, you know like I'm dissing Bitcoin I might do. I'm. One of the biggest biklen proponents, out there yeah, I want to use it I've, given more, money out to people free bitcoins, to people when I meet them in person than anyone else I know of right so you can't say that I don't support Bitcoin, but I can't do that no more so I want to know how do I continue, doing that where just lightening stuff little buddy keep talking about so I think the first important point though is not to buy into all that kind of be cash marketing, fun well, who said I was, well. I mean you're concerned about it.

Before. Be cash was even born I've been saying this long. Before August. Bitcoins. Only been around for like four months exactly, and, I think even the experts, are learning a lot about this, technology, and that's what I mean like we're. Leaning on these experts, to tell us what to think and that's the wrong way to really, consider this stuff, innovations. Gonna start happening the, experts, that understand, the system. In this particular, way right now will be irrelevant five ten years from now that's just how technology, right so we're, gonna wrap it up with Paul's final comments, on this and then we're gonna move on yeah so uh. Final. Comment would be if you want to play around with Lightning Network, just. Google Lightning Network wallet, zap, is one of the currently. More popular, ones. But. Understand. That it's still very much in like, developer. Kind, of stage right, you won't be able to send real. Bitcoin you'll be able to send test net Bitcoin, so. If you want to play around with it feel, free to but. You won't be able to pay for tacos, just yet maybe. In, a few weeks few months no. Promises, exactly, because this is money, we don't want to screw it up right, but. Yeah. We don't want to do, sort of like. What happened with the segue to X fork, where, garlic, had, actually. Multiple, bugs which would have completely, killed the Bitcoin network, and. We, want to avoid things like that by having peer review sort, of like a scientific. Approach to engineering. This stuff it's not just oh let's. Get. Some marketing, people together and let's. Get a Chinese, miner to put, some hash. Rate, into this that, that is an approach you can take but even, what I think that's the problem with the be cash guys is that they're actually falling, for this rapid. Innovation, without. Them, actually doing the vetting on their code as well it's a vulnerability, in their on their side yeah. Don't rush I I think that's, what I always say be patient people we care one of the reasons these if, you rush things you end up with broken things and you can't have broken things when you're dealing with money you just I. Agree, 100%, yeah. So Alexa she do me a favor Paul when you get when you finally see that the Lightning, network is safe for, the public to you especially. For non-technical. People, like myself to use you. Reach out to me so, I can test it I'll, be happy to share it with our audience all right sounds good and, probably the, biggest I'll, be the biggest Tooting, horn you'll ever have the, Lightning, Network when, I can use it and it works the way that it's supposed to work and it's safe for, our audience, to use. Put. Them on the show then you'll Paul be on tosh.o next, year hopefully but, I think that kind of perspective. Is more like bandwagoning. Like okay once everything's going the party's happening listen to jump on but I think right now we need to have strong hands we, need to be open-minded and we don't need to buy and tall this be cash marketing, fund it tells us that medium, of exchange is somehow important, listen. By. The way I love you ty yeah. Hey. Listen, anybody, that supports. The blockchain community. To do it better whether, you have opinion a or you have opinion B I don't care all i care is that the fact that you're out there helping. The. Block chain space grow okay, so I have no hard feelings, or ill-will against anyone, about, anything about blockchain if you're there helping, the block chain space grow you're. Doing something that the other people sitting on their ass ain't doing so I respect, that whether you prefer, this. Opinion. Over that opinion I'll, tell everybody, for. As long as I've known bitcoinmeister he and I have had different opinions about Bitcoin. But I respect, the fact that he's out there and. He's educating, the public about, bitcoins. And blockchain and, crypto, and he's not just sitting on his ass on his couch his hands on his pants in his mom's basement right, complaining. And whining okay he's out there making a difference well. Quite honestly what, I like more about him is that he's been correct on things and I actually.

Listen, To people who are actually proved, to be right, thank. You everyone, be in motion. That's, what ties that's, what we're all saying yeah, use. Your head and pound, that like button 250. Live viewers, right now oh we're chugging along so, let us say way into other topics real quick, there. Were so many things going on here we again, the, the. The. Z classic, forking entry would be private then we had the Polonius, all of Athens is they're, gonna want personal, this. Was talked about yesterday I broke the story about Polonia, axe wanting, social security numbers very soon which. Is just it's something that we should expect what, is privacy, going to be in the future in this basin will, people pivot to other exchanges, where you don't have to deal with such. Things so let's let me rush what do you what do you think about privacy whoa, I mean my, position. Is kind of short and sweet look we got a value privacy, we may not be able to right now since we're disempowered. Right now because of our monetary, policies, because of our use of the currencies, we have because, this store. Of values that we lack because of the institution's, all this stuff has, disempowered. Everybody, the vast majority of people now without privacy, you're gonna run into all kinds of problems the. State even, news working. Sources, won't work even, having the moment to, yourself to contemplate, thoughts that may seem a little too radical may. Not seem prudent in a, society where every day where everything is watched and. Monitored. And, brought back to you and in, the form of I don't know lawsuit. So. We're, gonna value, privacy. Not. Right now we're, gonna value, this chain we're, gonna value, a store, value we're, gonna have a medium of exchange we're gonna build a whole new economy, on this mess and then. We'll have empowerment. Enough to start talking about privacy, a little bit more and taking it seriously. Tie. Privacy. Okay. So there's. Two things going. On that, I. Agree. With everything that that. Russell. Just said about the privacy issue like. You, know we, did a whole series on privacy. On our channel it's the most comprehensive series, of videos we ever did on our channel was about privacy so we have a massive, amount of respect for privacy right, but, there's something that I want, your audience that knows audiences, outside of the US you know we.

Have In America, we have the strictest. Financial. Laws in the world okay. They. Say that it's there to protect the consumers, and the investors, right, I'm. Neutral, about that you know I believe in the free markets I believe that you, know people should do their own due diligence before, they invest in something or get, put their money into something and. And. So it should be up to the individuals, not the government to tell you how to invest, or where to invest okay. This. Issue with Polonia wanting. More personal. Data from you to. Authenticate. Who you are before, they allow you to trade, on their platform, is a. It's. Not up to them guys I'm, not I'm not paid, by cologne X to say this or anything okay I use their service and everything for. A long time and they. They, have to comply, with US, laws there, are certain laws in America that says that if you're a money. Transmitter or, if you're a currency. Exchanger. You, have to comply with certain laws you have to go through what's, called a kyc AML process, I know, your customer, anti, money laundering, right and some of you guys that's from other countries, don't that may not have these laws you may not understand, why they have to do this okay, but in most. European. Union in Western. Countries and United States Canada, Australia places, like that they are going to require this is this is normal. Procedures. For all financial institutions. And they all do this and polonius, has not been doing it for a long time and, now they're being forced to do it okay, that's. Not that's, not like we are in the process of. Registering. You, know and getting licensing, with FinCEN. And the, government regulations, to open up a cryptocurrency trade, desk and OTC trade does we have to go through the same process when, a customer wants to come on and, buy bitcoins, or a dealing with any cryptocurrency, through our trade desk or OTC trade desk they have to go through the same kyc AML process, or else we're not allowed to do business with them that's that's American, law that's not something we came up with right. If it's up to us if I know you Russell, I would just make the transactions, with you but according, to US financial laws, I cannot, do that without, requiring. You to fill out all that information give, me your but let's not be mistaken about what those laws are about you could simply give me a US dollar and not actually be an anonymous transaction, it won't matter his economy, what, I think is going on of these laws are actually just supporting, corporate monopolies, and then. We can't say that we even have a free market we have a market, that caters to these. Monopolies. These core, markets. So when you talk about a solution. Coming from the free market you're not talking about something that exists, especially here in the u.s. yeah. But, my. Opinion, about that. Of. Having, to you, know authenticate. The identity of the, individual, that's using the service I have, no opinion, one way or another because, it's US law it doesn't matter if I like or don't like it if I want to do this is if I want you, know to do business to you with our ot.

C Trade desk we, have to go to that process I understand. You have a practical, necessity to follow these rules what I'm saying is the, way that you go about explaining that isn't, gonna fit, in line with this idea that we have a free market will, people go around that will exchanges. Open up in, third world countries that don't give a darn about this is that what we're gonna see develop in the future or people are gonna want the reliability, of the American system they're, gonna be more free. That's. That's a great question, Adam, and I want to answer that clearly, for the audience right as. A trader in an investor, in crypto currencies, I highly. Recommend, that if you want protection. And. Reduce your risk you do it with a exchange, that requires, you to give. Up your address your ID your passport map because, if they are not following, the laws of your land right, you have absolutely, no recourse, so the, question is will these unregulated. Or illegal. Exchanges, develop that don't comply with the. Western countries financial, laws open up in some, third-world country, somewhere absolutely, they will but do with, is that safe to use absolutely. Not why would you use an exchange. That refuses, to follow the laws of their country, what does that tell you about the individuals, running that exchange you may not like it that Polonius. Is is. Collecting, your social security number and your personal, ID, and everything I don't like that I don't like having to ask you Adam, my store Russell or Paul for your social security number so that just let you guys can buy or sell bitcoins, on our ot, C trade desk I don't want having to do that I know you guys I'd rather just look, I agree, like these are very very, reasonable. You know conclusions. That can be drawn from people, that are captured, within a corporate state yeah, no, no do I like it no I don't like it but it's the law here and and, I'm not here to break the law I am here I love. America so I'm gonna follow the laws of the country that I live in if I moved to Europe whatever, country I live in you know our channel recommends.

That People follow along I've broken the law before when I was young I've been to jail before I, don't like being in there I don't like him with Bubba treasure goes in my butt you know so, I am going to follow the law okay I, mean. I know that's out of nowhere but no no that's the truth that's why I recommend. The. Homophobia. Here. 18. Years old and Bubba, thinks you're cute he's trying but it's not a joke, as. Like this whole discussion you. Know the, innovation. That bitcoins, gonna bring the disruption. That's gonna occur, isn't, gonna encompass, this conversation. Later on it's. Not gonna be about which procedures, are gonna follow, I think. It's pushing, this in a new direction, what. About this practical, issue rhymey I agree, with that too but we gotta address this practical issues people are going to be screaming up and down about Polonius, and it and the, social security Paul, oh yeah, yeah. So it's a try men on the this topic of exchanges. And how, they're, regulated and. That actually, probably is a good thing because you're, trusting, them with your money basically, if. They've run off with your money in every course do you have but, what's, I think what, is going to be interesting, and maybe I'm just a lightning Network fanboy. But one. Of the things that the Lightning, Network will, eventually, allow for is something. That you may have heard of cross. Chain atomic, swaps which, means instantly. Crustless. Lee. Converting, Bitcoin. Into litecoin or, whatever, coin into whatever. Coin you want and so what that will actually allow for is, completely. Trust. Less exchanges. So, instead. Of ever having to trust someone an exchange, like coin base or whoever or Colonia acts with, your. Money and then they need to follow all the AML kyc laws so they collect all this information on you instead. Of doing. All that hoopla. You'll. Be able to not. Have to rely on any intermediary, and you'll be able to. Instantly. Do. Um. Exchanges. Across, all coins and that, is something that again has, already been demonstrated. Charlie. Was, on a YouTube channel a couple weeks ago I think demonstrating. It converting. From Bitcoin litecoin on, the. Bitcoin main, network and, so that, is, doable today already, when. It will become commonplace, right, when will you see exchanges. Whoo yeah they actually will be able to be in a third world country and you know you won't have to care because you. Won't ever have to trust them with your money right. Large. Exchanges. Gets hacked and all of our personal data is linked to these wallets and some, of these people get targeted for. Kidnapping, then. They may have to you, know look at different. Laws maybe but, what. We're really talking about now is okay great it's practical, if you, want to have a business right now to follow these certain, regulations but I think he even pointed it one, of the reasons why I think it's superfluous, you know we're, moving towards these, cross-chain. Atomic, swaps and that, you know it's gonna be a you know it's gonna be like changing, dollars, again where, you have this a bit of a anonymity, and privacy. There's. Real important, issues with privacy today. But. He

2017-12-30 22:35

Show Video


Hi Adam, i hear coke is fun, even if you're using it to trade bitcoin. Never done it though, coke that is... i like bitcoin. I'm pretty sure anyone on that stuff would just be feeding the fees with aggressive trading anyway Bitcoin is the boss crypto. No other is ready to hit the mass market with investment options like futures trading. Unfortunately that creates high volume trading around the futures expiration dates... which creates the same big money manipulation possibility that exists in the current US stock market. Even if BTC forks into dividends, those segments should wither quickly just due to the economy of scale bitcoin has. A new fork needs to demonstrate a legit advantage other than block size to create demand. The only downside to focusing on BTC is that the value of your investment is harder to inflate since it has gained so much popularity already. Dollar value wise, instead of percentage growth over the prior day/month/year price, if funds can pull the cash together bitcoin will pass through this lull and jump to the moon.

Stupid online marketing for 12 sales every 24 hours

SegWit was a block size increase, and none of y'all geniuses told Taizen that! Bitcoin the free open source protocol doesn't owe Taizen his business model or burrito tradition! If his business depends on Bitcoin, he should stop freeloading, and hire a Bitcoin dev on his staff to help develop scaling solutions, such as Lightning and SegWit enabled wallets. None of y'all told him that either!

Tai needed to smoke a joint before the show.

Bubba lol

Great show and thanks Tai for asking the tough questions!

Tai tai tai....relax. No one was condescending

Your tax liability lies on your liars and jurisdiction. Hi Russel! :) If you want to call yourself a fictisious entity and contract with them then pay that tax. otherwise ask questions.

Nicki Minaj - I Am Your Leader (Explicit) ft. Cam'Ron, Rick Ross

Nicki Minaj - Beez In The Trap (Explicit) ft. 2 Chainz -

well they went to jail because they didn't bring that up at Allicution and told the judge that they don't accept that.

wait wait wait..i know what your going to say..well this person went to jail for not paying tax. What does that have to do with me? Nothing. Absolutley nothing.

i drove taxi for 15 years. i didn't pay no income tax. why shoud i pay any? I paid none. tell me why.

i know i sound a bit crazy. i hope this links i have shared might help to clear this all up/ Peace.

Citizenship - Do You Know who You Are? -

IMO the biggest issue with the transaction fees being high is the barrier this creates for recruiting new users. When the fees were low I would often offer to setup a wallet for a new-be and send them about $20 worth of bitcoin to get them started. Not so easy to do now. Hopefully this issue will be resolved sooner rather than later. That said, I'm holding until 2024!

Bitcoin maximalists excited about Bitcoin 'dividends' that are outright scams, meanwhile Ripple is one more pump away from surpassing the crippled Bitcoin. Mark my words people, as soon as people see Bitcoin lose its #1 spot, it is going to be a bitcoin blood bath when cryptos with strong projects rise up.

lol and tai zen defending this AML KYC bullshit laws. saying that the govt is here to protect us. he says he's a crypto TRADER. this guy is NOT a fucking bitcoiner. he's not in it for the evolution/revolution. he's a fucking con man greedy like roger vermin. the govt are the criminals and that "third world" country starting an exchange outside the country because US laws are CRIMINAL is called fighting for the people. THATS WHAT THAT SAYS, TAI bring shame to your name. DECENTRALIZED EXCHANGES make your bullshit coinbase exchange obsolete. criminals.

BTC was great. But it's going to die in 2018. It will lose at least half of it's value, probably more within the next two months. Low liquidity, low volume. I love how you guys are tip-toeing around not mentioning the currency-that-shall-not-be-named. We all know what that currency is... Don't we? Your purism has blinded most of you. There was one dude who seems to be willing to admit what BTC really is.

what would that be? Ripple? lol

On a positive note, I really liked Russell and hope you have him on again Adam.

Tech guy fail

Tabatha Flores if that’s meant as a reference to things I was trying to get across, I’d appreciate any feedback you’d have to offer about what made it apparently fail (forreals!)

Tai uses appeal to authority as some sort of valid way of argument ie "I've been in the space." He is like a broken record. Literally repeating himself just like the king of the trolls.

Tai Zen - segwit, is a blocksize increase ... ffs. You sound like Roger Ver ... lost in the past when network was empty and freeish transactions. Dude people have been saying that the fee market would come and that micro-transactions would be a problem since years, Satoshi Nakamoto even said it way way back! Get the burrito using lightning ... yes, good.

The problem is all of the big companies in the ecosystem AREN'T using Segwit. Segwit IS A BLOCKSIZE INCREASE. Bitcoin has created the temporary blocksize increase, and we're waiting for places like Coinbase to implement. Bitcoin isn't the problem. Why aren't you complaining about Coinbase screwing us all over. They're not just making Coinbase transactions expensive. They're making transactions across the entire network expensive.

coinbase better watch its back. just like ppl left Poloniex in a huge mass exodus to Bittrex, they will do the same to coinbase for whatever company serves the People. and remember, that shit literally happened OVERNIGHT. in crypto, things move 1,000x as fast.

conclusion: Coinbase/ are greedy, even though they've made BILLIONS, they don't CARE about the future of money and our children and future generations, they only care how the system makes them profits. Tai Zen is JUST like these asses. he only cares about when he's gonna make profit. he sees bitcoin as an investment, a COMMERCIAL product. "OMG i bought an airplane, i bought electronic cash, i expect it to work" ohhh but no patience? no giving a shit that you didn't understand bitcoin blockchain tech in the beginning back 4 years ago? you put all your life savings into something you don't even understand to this day? fucking madmen. and n00bz are eating his shit up like fucking sheep. fiat money has been enslaving humanity for what a century now? and tai wants to flip the script and have his perfect bitcoin overnight. this guy does not care about anybody but himself.

the issue is old farts like roger ver and tai zen who are in their latter years who want to get famous off bitcoin and be the next bill gates and be billionaires in their lifetime. they want it NOW like fast food. they don't care about the quality or how it will affect future generations when bitcoin is a world reserve currency. fuck them. better wake up dude

Some Times I don’t think there’s anything necessarily “wrong” with being “greedy”. But there’ are short term gains one can make, which must be weighed against potential long term gains. It seems as if some folks (and/or companies) find themselves focusing on short term gains vs. long term. Incentives are important, and they can seemingly vary quite a bit depending on what (and who) is in question :)

OMG Tai you are a broken record!

I'm willing to forgive Tai's bit of hostility in exchange for that Decred mention!

Tai is painful to listen to. If he doesn't have the patience to wait for LN then trade something else. It is not worth compromising the entire network so a handful of impatient traders don't have to pay fees.

Thanks Tai for asking the right questions. So, we all need new wallets for lightning to work. That sucks. This alone will take years, what another 9 years? It took 9 years to get where we are now. No one's going to change wallets as the one they now works. After listening to this, i understand more about lightning now, thanks to Tai's questions. I now know where big money will be. Russell talks about nonsense with his anti gov't crap. You can't beat the gov't russell.

J B well, there’s the short term bottom line, but also long term bottom lines. I don’t think those necessarily always align. Different businesses may be under different stresses, and be making decisions based on a set of incentives that may not be obvious to those not paying *very* close attention. I honestly think Coinbase currently seems to be fine with throwing bitcoin (and bitcoin users) under the bus. Ask yourself why they incorporated Bitcoin Cash, but *not* Ethereum Classic, and you might start to put together an interesting narrative. TLDR: incentives matter. Businesses don’t necessarily care about you, and they may care more about their own short term survival/profits versus long term types of thinking.

Thanks for the answer. It helps. It's hard for me to contemplate any business would do something to hurt their bottom line. If so, then it's not a for profit business. My as well be in charity.

J B we don’t “all need new wallets for lightning to work”. If existing wallets actually do what’s best for their customers (even though it may hurt their existing business models), they would enable Lightning Network transactions. The question is whether or not they think it’s in their best interest to do so. Lightning Network *may* require the adoption of a bunch of new wallets by folks, but it doesn’t *have* to. Whatever ends up happening, I don’t think it will take 9 years to resolve. I’d bet (and I’m actually putting my money where my mouth is), that the whole Lightning Network issue gets fully sorted out within the next 3 months - 3 years

tai is crying because he put his life savings into a GENERATIONAL INFANTILE tech that is STILL developing. he is a CHILD crying WAH WAH WAH i want my 1 million dollar gains YESTERDAY. fuck you, tai. "wah wah wah, fuck my kids, i want my gains NOW, and i dont' give a fuck if i sacrifice my children's future and their financial system for my bitch ass gains". seriously, fuck off.

Tai is one of those guys when you meet him he HAS to be the center of attention. If his points arent acknowledged he will overtalk the shit out of you. When I meet guys like that I just talk louder and louder until they stfu.

Tai pretending to be Bitcoin fan but he is against Bitcoin and should not invited to any BTC show. See his older videos.

I run a full bitcoin node to secure the network out of my pocket and with no financial benefit. Segwit to Segwit transactions are cheaper than increasing my node block size. I’d rather pay more on transactions than upgrading to new hardware for my node and paying more for my internet use. Descentralization is the most important part of we need to fix this: yes. But not by sacrificing centralization. Rootstock, schsignatures + lightning is the solution with same block size and we will have instant transactions.

x asroma yup!

I disagree with the attitude against 401ks. Dollar cost averaging into stock index funds since 1989 was great for me. I can withdraw from my Roth IRAs tax free next November. I regard my btc as insurance against a stock market collapse. And gold as insurance against btc collapse

I love the way this show brings together so much diversity. Much less groupthink than other bitcoin shows. Good job, Adam.

Tai, buy from food trucks by withdrawing btc from gdax to the btc address of the food truck. Use QR scanner to get their btc address. Zero transaction fee.

Painful painful listening to Paul waffling on, and not getting to the point. Tai is asking legitimate questions about Lightening, and not trolling. If it will take 2 years then say so and explain why blocksize increase is not scalable long term.

Hi Paul. Thanks for the reply. Yes I do understand all that, I'm in Tech, and am with you guys. Quality takes time. It's a personal critique of the way you answered, skirting around the issue like a politician, sorry about that, but it's how it came across, no offence intended. Tai is a straight talker, and was looking for a straight answer, like many people who don't understand about software/testing etc. Your text above, as it happens, sums it up nicely in a couple of sentences. Sounds harsh but I think you guys need to get prepared for these awkward questions from the public. Hopefully you can see that by making my comment I AM making a contribution. Be honest, you waffled, take it on the chin, learn by it and move on. BTW all lthe best for the New Year.

bazilian0 the point I was trying to make was that there (unfortunately) *isn’t* a “straightforward” answer to when the average user will be able to do Lightning Network transactions instantly and with no fee. I’m specifically trying to avoid the original mistake that folks like Gavin made, over-selling and over-promising. It’s still super early days in this tech... think pre-Netscape, pre-WorldWideWeb in the early 90s. You’re free to think that folks “aren’t working fast enough” to bring you the future you envision... but, this stuff doesn’t just magically appear out of nowhere, in its final and perfect form. P.S. instead of complaining about people supposedly “waffling”, you yourself could make a difference in moving things forward if you wanted to, instead of just sitting on the sidelines and shitting on things

Adam this is going to be a somewhat lengthy comment but I will try to keep it as short as possible. While everyone is making good points about the issues with scaling and daily transactional use, something very important as being overlooked. That is the desires of the customer that is currently considering getting into bitcoin. Just like all innovation, the first and most important uses are dictated by the requirements of the customer and not by the dreams of the designers. The vast majority of us have no interest in finding a new way to buy coffee. The fact that BCH chain with it 8 MB black size has at best only kilobytes of data into each block underscores this. Very few have any interest in using crypto as a daily transactional cash. We can do that with many different vehicles quite easily. Of primary interest to noob’s is to place some of their hard earned value into a vehicle that is somewhat immune to the ministrations of government, and that has the potential of getting a return greater than 0.01%. That is the landscape in which new users consider the advantages and disadvantage of crypto currency’s. Ultimately it will be nice to be able to utilize bit coin, it’s forks, or other crypto’s for a daily transactional cash. That is not the demand of the consumer today consequently the scaling issues are starting to sound like angels on pinheads. It is very comforting to know that bitcoin core has been hard at work bringing solutions to the fore that will address the slow confirmation times and high fees. For most of us these really don’t have a big impact at this time.

Tai Zen telling it like it is.

Love the energy! Thanks Adam for helping us keep calm during a very shaky year.

Adam meister and these guys are dead wrong. Tai is right on

Tai is the man ! I will be following him! He hit the nail on the head . These tech heads are not getting what the majority is saying . roger Ver gets it . I’m not a support of bitcoin cash, due to him high jacking the Name , but Tai shares my sentiment

Most people blow $250a month in untraceable spending. In other words they waste it in the bars and random entertainments. From 2014 on I have told people just to save half of that wasted spending and put it in BTC. Guess how many people listened?

Awesome show!! Tai has important points that should be listened too.

Tai seems like an idiot. Bitcoin is not for small transactions.

Tai is right on! Common sense

I can't even finish watching this because Tai is just too damn obtuse and grating. I'll be skipping all future episodes with him. It's the same old story with guys like him, all he cares about is his business's short term needs, not what's best for Bitcoin as a trustless, censorship resistant revolution. There is no point in even listening to these types of jokers. They are going to spin things for their short term gain and not give a damn about the long term health of the ecosystem. Don't invite Tai on again Adam, please. You're just going to get an annoying spinster.

Anyone who wants to ask about solutions is insulted. Pathetic

The dude in yellow shirt is asking great questions and the host insults him ? Pathetic

Wow these guys can’t even answer a simple question from the dude in the yellow shirt. Bitcoins going to fail

The BitcoinMEister is all about forcing YOU to HODL so he gets richer, the crazy high fees do that for him and those like him. To hell with the village in Africa or the dirt farmer in Indonesia or poor people in any economically devastated region that can't afford to spend the Bitcoin they have saved...that they have saved so they can provide for their families. They cannot afford the luxury of waiting to be rich

i couldnt care less about africa tbh.

After your permission Adam I am beginner and I want to learn and invest in bitcoin. Please help me to start. BTC: 1FALyQoYkeKxZ1AcDtpW5wuMbhdkckWdrP

Dude in the yellow shirt is 100% right! Bitcoin is loosing the battle of these high fees and long transaction times aren’t fixed.

Great show Adam & guests

Boxmining is RIGHT ON.....Bitcoin was money for the masses, as freedom from gov'ts and banks. this made Bitcoin famous and now greedy holders want to kill the Dream Satoshi had.

Tai is annoying.

I’m seriously doubting Tai’s intelligence. You want lightening but you are not using Segwit. All the other coins are cheap and fast to use because they haven’t had to scale yet.

The guy in the glasses is a dick

Dude....this is completely awesome. ....don't know how you do it...bring on 2018

All other coins will have to scale at some point. Bitcoin is closest to scaling.

Use segwit

I do And it doesn’t change the high fees at all

Raising blocksize decreases decentralization

How does no one understand this?

Thanks, Paul, for the explanation of Bitcoin being oversold on what it can do when it's still in development and evolving. And props to Tai for asking and for listening and engaging in a production conversation. Great show!

Crypto Camp — thanks for the kind words, glad you found some of what I had to say helpful!

Great way to wrap up 2017!


You got your Decred shout out

Tai needs to use Segwit, he's talking about lightning endlessly but no one points out or asks him if he uses segwit.. that brings down the fees and is the basis for lightning

I absolutely advocate solutions: Democratically Run Worker Cooperatives, Bitcoin as a store of value, getting past the marketing FUD and seeing Bitcoin as an ideal store of value, rather than making a problem out of something that does not have a problem!

damn. We all need new wallets to use lightning..? Forget it. Took 9 yrs to get to the current mass effect. Forget it for new wallets. what another 12 yrs? After listening to this, i understand more about lightning now, thanks to Tai's questions. I now know where to put my majority of my savings. Russell seems like he's not into solutions. Only wants to blame others and play the blaming game. We want solutions. annoying.

It needs the big players to implemented before fees will come down significantly

audiovideotweaker Why not have bigger blocks until they can build levels two and three on the Blockchain to keep the fees down. Bit coin is becoming unusable it is Unusable

Segwit doesn’t bring down fees much at all. I use segwit sbd it’s hardly a difference

eh how would that work? We would have to do a hardfork in that case with the risk of splitting the network. What if some major exchanges refuse to use segwit bitcoin? Then we have 2 bitcoins.

audiovideotweaker Segwit should be seamless we shouldn’t have to make an effort to use it the infrastructure from the wallets and exchanges should implement this crap

What's odd is I had to switch to bch to send my btc to binance the other day as the fees were 38. or so and when I switched to bch it was zero on coinbase. Dex exchanges are the future. fk the US parasites.Tai we could care less about the laws of any rulers country. Atomic swaps FTW.

Would be awesome to see Paul again in a one-on-one show with him. I think he has a lot more to say than he let on or had time for here.

Good idea!

The Biggest Hurdle of Bitcoin Growth is its massive fees and long transaction queues, No one will pay for something that takes ages to confirm. Not to mention the privacy concern when using BTC. That's why i do believe on what mcafee says that 2018 will be the year of Privacy coins and XVG, DGB and DeepOnion is on top of my list of privacy centered crypto currency.

Tai's a fucking moron lol.....

Tip* when Tai opens his mouth just FF> 10 secs.

well I won't be looking to follow this Tai zen guy then. Some useful discussion but Tai should filter his noise more and restudy the basics. has he not got any of his own catchphrases ¿

Bitcoin's TAX PRISON

D.I.Y. Do Not give Evidence Against Yourself -


RS wins best comment of the day!

correct, I'm holding for the 2032 having! At that time I'll be 105 then.

LONG-TERM thinking from a 90 year old!

We're buying on the dips and holding for 2028!


What's BTC at right now? 12500 or something? Looks like it's exponentially falling to a Planck price.

He is great! He will be back!

Paul did a great job. He will be back.

Paul Capestany i just think u didnt answer the questions well for someone who i was expecting to explain lightning well. Maybe my expectation of ur knowledge was too high. Is lightning that hard to explain? Its ok to say u don't know when lightning wallets are launching. A positive solution for btc transaction fees came out sounding negative. At the point of making that comment i was frustrated by the explanations to the questions. For that I'm sorry.

Its a free market and we can choose to move to companies that do use segwit. Coinbase will go out of business if they don't adapt.

Scott Valadez because bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized but now the whole network is in the hands of a few companies like coinbase. If those companies take wrong decisions then the whole thing may crumble.

If a legit competitor to coinbase arises then coinbase is in big trouble. For now there is no real direct regulated competitor. Gemini and Bitflyer are exchanges. Coinbase is more like a store.

The devs are awesome (btcsuite and like Tai said atomic swap tools). Binding on-chain governance and fork-proof PoS are interesting considering what Bitcoin's been through this year. In a landscape full of highly questionable projects, Decred is solid, though vastly underappreciated and unnoticed. imho

The Decred shout out always seem to pump some people up!

Dan Man Tai is a pain for all of us anyway. There is no ethical thought from him (Tai)

tai zen is obviously not too educated on bitcoin. go watch this video Hoffman did with Rocky on why increasing the block size to scale is ridiculous and a huge threat. sure, we can do one in the future when it's absolutely necsesary but you can buy coffee with fiat for NOW. your precious shitcoins/altcoins do not scale under blockchain tech unless it's so centralized that it's essentially the same as using VISA/mastercard/fiat. for Tai to spread these terrible misinfo is immoral. karma is a BCH adam, i know i'm not some big youtuber/tweeter but you seriously need to put me on this show and educate these n00bz. i will drop knowledge on every single fool like nothing else. nothing will survive me

Thanks! I thought the guest combo was great.

How is Paul supposed to know? You expect him to be able to answer for dozens of independent companies, open-source development efforts he's not a part of, and millions of separate users? People pushing for answers like this appear too dense to understand there is no one person that can provide that answer. It's almost like it's... decentralized.

"Customers" of Bitcoin do not want coffee! exactly! I have been trying to say this for a while. I will read your exclent comment on tonight's show!

You are welcome. 2018 will be wilder

I think having a discussion with someone who isn't a tech guy like Tai can educate other non tech people better than just a tech guy explaining it outright. That being said I feel like they were misunderstanding each others points or veering slightly off topic at times and that made it hard to listen to. Maybe moderating the talk more is something Adam can do better

I am real Adam and you can see my comments in your videos. I am learning a lot from you. But in the same time I want to take a step and invest.

I doubt this is real. I will leave it up for now.

Tai, bitcoin was fast and cheap years ago because hardly anybody was using Bitcoin. You can only fit so many transactions in a block, its as simple as that. Thats how blockchain technology works. at 1mb blocksize you can only fit about 2,000 transactions in a block.... think about that... back in 2012 that was more than enough space... now that millions of people are trying to use bitcoin 2,000 tx/10 mins is not even close to cutting it. Also a blocksize increase is not easy to do because its not backwards compatible to nodes that do not update, so it absolutely requires Bitcoin to split into two different currencies. That's why segwit being opt in is rather important to keep Bitcoin just one bitcoin. As an early Bitcoiner from 2012 myself I had literally the same exact thought process you did though and it took months until someone finally properly explained to me why we couldnt just raise the blocksize a little bit to alleviate the fees. I also realized that blocksize increase is not a viable long term solution to global mass adoption. If btc can only do 2-3 tx/s with 1mb, we would need far far greater size than 8mb... we're talking 5-50gb blocksizes. this is unworkable at the moment for obvious reasons. The only hope for cheap tx and fast confirmation times on a Proof of Work blockchain is sidechain off chain solutions (Lightening network). Every single Proof of work blockchain will experience these same scaling issues that BTC is experiencing now and none of them would be able to scale to global mass adoption without sidechain offchain solutions. 8mb is an improvement in a way and if btc could increase blocksize without a hardfork like that immediately i would be all for it, but its still only 2million tx per day before blocks are full. .

Thanks MC!

2018! Thanks

Jeremy, I support that idea, but, unfortunately, Coinbase in a position that they can just sell their services to other coins' supporters now by adding more coins instead of prioritizing Bitcoin if they want to. I do agree with Tore that the more ways we can find to move away having just a few companies like Coinbase, the better off we'll be, though. Scott is right that Coinbase has benefited from Bitcoin as a company, and now that their success makes them a big contributor to transactions on each block, they should be genuinely helping to address that. They didn't get their way with SegWit2x, but that doesn't mean that they should be poor losers and hurt everyone who disagreed with them now that they have a pragmatic solution in front of them.

8:42 Isn't XVG a fork of DOGE?

Thanks, BM! "So if another person says Verge is a fork of Dogecoin, maybe the correct response is "I don't think so"."

Screw probate throw it all into a trezormuahahahh

parasitic government mafia are thieves who need to get a fkn job. Sit back while we stress and then steal our money. It's a joke.

Ash Vecchio can't believe they tax atomic swaps. Makes me so salty

Jonathan Langdale , one final note you may not want to recognize this but 90% of women out there are hypergamous whores... you can consider what mgtow describes or you can see the world as a Simp... either way I find mgtow to be one of many very interesting critiques world around me and it can lead to better more honest relationships with women who are worth having a relationship with

Feel free to jump into Ripple head first.... indeed the Koren women are good and they are building a nice bear trap for you guys.... BTC just got smart contracts today and Lightning is going to hit in 2018 in my humble opinion.

Jonathan Langdale , this has nothing to do with mgtow. In South Korea a ton of the women there customarily handle the money. A huge part of the volumes that is running into Ripple is coming from the Korean exchanges... check it out

Russell Spears are you seriously going to cross-over your MGTOW obsession with XRP, BTC, & South Korean Asian wife stereotypes not being smart or strong enough to have their own money and manage it? I have seen a lot of wise females in crypto. They are impressive speculators. Dude. Snap out of that crazy anecdotal self-absorped bubble you are in and return to Earth.

A flood of south Korean wives are speculating their men's money into everything.... that is not institutional money pumping Ripple....

LiviaCoins has always provided a very pleasant platform to buy and sel bitcoins, ethereum, bitcoin cash and also litecoins. I have been using their service for long.

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