The Ortofon Exclusives Series' Heritage and Technology. Episode 10 - MC Verismo

The Ortofon Exclusives Series' Heritage and Technology. Episode 10 - MC Verismo

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Louis: Hi, I'm Louis Dorio. I'm the Product Specialist here at Ortofon in the United States. And today, we're in our office here in New York and I have special guest Leif Johannsen, who is the Chief Officer of Acoustics and Research for Ortofon.

Welcome! Leif Johannsen: Thank you! LD: So you are, among other things, our cartridge designer. Is that right? LJO: Yes. I’ve been at Ortofon now for fifteen and a half years and of course I’ve been designing all the cartridges since then. There have been many cartridges in that time. LD: I see. Today, it’s really exciting to have you here

because we’re actually celebrating the release of our new MC Verismo which is an interesting cartridge for so many different reasons but primarily because this is kind of like an evolution of our famous A90, A95 cartridge series. LJO: Yeah, you could say that. I see the A90 as my breakthrough as a cartridge designer. We put a lot of new things into it, including SLM technology.

We got a really nice, good, astonishing sound out of it. I guess you’re also remembering that from many years ago. LD: I remember that the A90 was a revelation. It totally changed the landscape of what people thought about phono cartridges up until that time. It was also very controversial, mainly because it was a cartridge that was so literal in its presentation. It gave everything that was in the groove and it was so insightful.

I think that, in many ways, people also weren’t used to having a cartridge that was so neutral and so honest at the same time, but still really exciting to listen to. LJO: I’ve heard all those comments as well. Some people were really excited about it. “This is a revolution” some people said. On the other hand, some people said, “I cannot stand listening to this. This is just too much.”

Because they were used to listening to cartridges that were coloring the sound or doing something to it. But this is not what I wanted back then. I wanted something that was really true to the groove.

LD: Right, and that definitely goes along with Ortofon’s ethos in general, which is that generally, our cartridges try to reproduce everything which is in the record and not to try to influence the sound in any way, shape, or form. Just to try to get the purest signal off the record. LJO: Sure, and that’s what it’s all about for me. We don’t want to listen to something that has been added to the sound. We want to listen to what’s in the groove.

The SLM technology that we introduced with the A90 body really sort of pushed this forward. It made it easier for us to achieve this sound. LD: Well yeah, and SLM technology was interesting because it really offers a lot more damping as far as getting rid of unwanted vibrations. The first time I remember hearing an SLM-type cartridge, it surprised me because I just remember musical information sort of emanating from nothingness. It was a really interesting sensation at first because you’re not used to hearing a vinyl record played with such control over resonances.

It sounded very natural but it was shocking because up until that time, I had never experienced something that was able to do that so well. LJO: That’s true. It’s probably obvious but I was very happy about it because this was something that I had been looking for. The former cartridge I made, the MC Windfeld, I tried to do something to get close to this point but I really didn’t get there all the way.

The MC A90 got me a lot further! LD: Right. I think that the thing that’s really great about the Verismo is that over the years, even after the A95 cartridge, which was our 95th Anniversary model... ...there’s still a lot of demand by listeners for us to have a cartridge that had the same skeletal body, the same SLM type of design. The Verismo is really like a hyper-evolved version of those. It has a lot of new features, a lot of things that are really interesting. Not only do these features make the cartridge more insightful and more revealing but they also have other implications on the performance of the cartridge, making it one of the best cartridges I believe, we’ve ever brought to the table both for technology and sound performance. So first of all, tell me a little bit about the SLM technique and exactly how that is applied for this cartridge.

LJO: This is made by SLM technology. It’s Titanium. The big difference in making a cartridge with SLM technology compared to if you were to take a solid block of Titanium and then machine away what you don’t want then we are building this up layer by layer by this selective laser melting technology (or additive manufacturing) so you are adding layer by layer instead of removing stuff.

This gives us some opportunity to have internal structure and that is definitely the key because internal structure means that there is damping inside this otherwise solid piece of Titanium. Of course, you cannot do that by taking a solid block of Titanium and then machining stuff away. We are really building the damping into the system in the SLM process. But the cartridge does not really look like this when it comes out of the SLM printing (or building) machine. This has been machined afterwards to have a nice finish and also to have the precision that we need because this is a key part in the cartridge.

This is not just a dummy housing. This is what connects the cartridge (on the top) to the headshell and tonearm and then goes all the way down here to the stylus. If this is not really doing its job to give the stylus the best working conditions then we can put whatever inside down here but it will never really perform as it could if this was going to be perfect. It’s really stiff and it has damping so that is the first thing we need to do in order to give the stylus the best possible working conditions. And, on the top, there are 2 threaded holes, and then we have these 3 very small areas which are going to connect to the head shell or the tonearm...

so that we know exactly that we have contact in these 3 areas and not anywhere else. This is important. LD: Well, I think that, when many people think about cartridges, it’s not necessarily understood immediately just how important the exterior body housing is. In a lot of ways, it is going to be responsible for doing a lot of damping with regard to the vibrations. And really, the material that gets used for the outer housing of the cartridge can have such a profound impact to the motor system inside the cartridge. LJO: Exactly.

LD: So what you’re saying here is that you’re just trying to more or less provide the optimal working conditions for ...both the stylus and for the motor system which exists here on this block of (more or less) a self-damping structure. LJO: Exactly. This is what this is all about. We do not want to add anything. We do not want to add any coloration. We would like to control vibrations and resonances and give the perfect working conditions. This is the first step definitely.

If we go further into this cartridge, we of course have the magnetic system here. This magnetic system is basically the same as in the MC A95, Windfeld Ti, and A90. There are some differences and we will come back to that.

Basically, it is the same nice, compact magnetic system that we have been using. The first thing that comes to my mind as we are talking about this is the suspension. How do we get mechanically, physically from the body and then out to the stylus, as have been talking about? This is really about the suspension, because this is where the moving system is connected to the body. LD: As far as suspension goes, I sort of always note that when I talk to people about cartridge suspensions that it’s not a very glamorous part of the cartridge but the thing that I believe that people should probably think about or understand is just how much the suspension is responsible for as far as dictating the overall sound of the cartridge as a whole. Now, when we talk about higher end cartridges from our Exclusives Series, including the MC Verismo we’re using this technology which is a very old Ortofon technology called the Wide Range Damping system.

Wide Range Damping is found in so many of our different models. What I have found, personally, is that cartridges with the Wide Range Damping system really do a fantastic job of honing in on the starts and stops of notes really being able to sense the delineation between instruments. I think it’s really exceptional to be able to hear and hone in on this overall sound. Maybe you could explain just a little bit of what Wide Range Damping is? LJO: Yeah, and it’s funny for me to hear that this is another non-sexy part of the cartridge. For many people, the housing is a non-sexy part. You just need it. And the same thing with the suspension - it’s not sexy; it's just some kind of rubber.

But I totally agree with you: it’s not just some kind of rubber. It’s really, really essential for the performance of the cartridge and the sound. I also agree with what you're telling me about the sound. So. Wide Range Damping. We need damping at high frequencies because

there will be a resonance present between the stylus and the sort of compliance of the vinyl. You have a resonance between these two and if there was no damping, there would be a really nice high resonance peak somewhere between 10-20 kHz. It varies depending on a lot of things but we do not want this.

At high frequencies, you really want to have damping to control that peak. You want it to be flat, of course. The thing with rubber suspensions is that, if you want to have a lot of damping, you need the rubber suspension to be hard - or harder than you might want - because a hard rubber suspension will also give you less compliance. It’s going to be really stiff and then you’ll have problems with the tracking ability. If you look back many, many years ago at the beginning of MC cartridges, there was always a compromise between having some kind of peak and having some decent kind of tracking ability and compliance.

That was a big thing at the beginning. Then, rubber was sort of developed better and better. But still, in a cartridge with just one rubber suspension, it’s a compromise. In the MC Verismo, we have a compound suspension. It’s two suspensions divided by a metal plate. That metal plate has to be heavy. Of course, it cannot really be heavy in the sense that it’s heavy to lift but it’s made out of a metal with a high density in order to mean something to these small parts.

We use Platinum, which has a really high density. So we have two rubber suspensions divided by this Platinum plate. What it does is that, at low frequencies, the Platinum plate doesn’t really matter to the motion.

It just moves along with the two rubber suspensions so you have one big rubber suspension. And that big rubber suspension - the two combined - has a nice, high compliance, so we have nice tracking ability. But if you go to high frequencies, then only one of the rubber suspensions will be active because this heavy Platinum plate will sort of decouple the other rubber suspension. Now, you’re down to one rubber suspension and therefore it’s more stiff, harder, you have more damping. So you get the best of the two worlds: you have something which is hard at high frequencies and soft at low frequencies. Wide Range Damping: low, high - Wide Range Damping.

This is still, of course, a compromise. Everything is a compromise in a design. But this is so much better than just having one suspension. LD: See, that’s fascinating because most of the time, when you think about classic MC cartridges, by and large almost all of them were single suspension designs up until the development of the Wide Range Damping technology, which then sort of made its way into a lot of our top end models. But this is really useful because, as you said, having two suspensions, is actually able to better damp the entire frequency range than putting all your eggs in one basket and saying that you’re only able to do one particular area. Furthermore, we’re using a new rubber technology inside of the MC Verismo that actually was also found in our 2M Black LVB, which is Multi-Wall Carbon Nanotubes (MWCNT), which is a mouth full! What you told me about Multi-Wall Carbon Nanotubes is that, not only does it have benefits to the overall sound as far as things like suspension design but, in addition to that, it also offers interesting benefits in trackability/tracking performance.

Maybe you could explain a little bit about that? LJO: First of all, I’d like to mention the people at Ortofon’s factory who are responsible for this. We have a specialist engineer who has been digging into this new technology for a long time to figure out if this could be of some kind of benefit to us. The compounds that we use have been developed over many, many years. They are really good compounds that help to create nice, good performing cartridges. These new ingredients that are sort of replacing what is called “carbon black”, which is just carbon powder this is just taking out - now we’re putting in these Multi-Wall Carbon Nanotubes. This gives us an opportunity to adjust the different properties of the rubber suspension in a different way than we are used to.

We’re also learning now. We’ve been working on this for a long time and we see some real benefits that the combination of the different ingredients we put in the rubber suspension can give us an even better compromise between damping and trackability than we are used to. I’m not saying that the suspensions that we’ve been using over the last many years are not good. This is just adding something.

We are getting a step further. It’s an evolution - an iteration. LD: Right. I think this kind of goes back to what you told me that even though Ortofon may not be releasing a cartridge every single month, the development process never really stops. As far as experimenting with new production techniques and new materials, those go on a continuous basis. Also, what you had told me was that some of the inspiration for the Verismo has been cooking for more or less years now.

LJO: For years. We always have something going on. There are always prototypes being made with new stuff. Always. I’m waiting for prototypes for some new stuff right now as well. I’m always waiting for new stuff!

We have really good suppliers and we have really good in-house technology for rubber suspensions and stuff like this. There’s always something going on! We’re not just saying “ok, now we have a good cartridge and this is it. We’re going to use this technology forever.” No. We want to push forward all the time. How can we get a step further? Because there’s always a step further. LD: Right. And when I talk to people who ask me questions about our cartridges and, in particular

they wonder why we don’t have a new cartridge out every month I have to tell them we’re continuously experimenting with new techniques, new materials, new prototypes and everything. We take our time to make sure that what we do release is absolutely right, is an evolution, and is better than what we were able to do in the past. LJO: Definitely. This is what Ortofon is all about.

Ortofon is about also looking back at all the good stuff we’ve made over the years and we still want to use it. For example, Wide Range Damping. Of course, it’s really good, so why shouldn’t we keep on using it? We’re just making it slightly better by using new rubber compounds.

LD: Well, I think that the cornerstone of what makes the MC Verismo so interesting to so many people, aside from being... another SLM skeletal body cartridge inspired by the anniversary cartridges, is the use of a fully diamond cantilever. LJO: Yeah, this diamond cantilever is really the cornerstone. This cantilever is attached to an armature, of course. This armature is then connected to the rubber suspension.

The armature that we use in the MC Verismo is the same armature we introduced with the MC A95 the semi-non-magnetic armature. This phrasing, this word is basically something Ortofon has come up with, because nobody is really looking for something semi-non-magnetic. If we are talking to people about magnetic materials (iron, iron alloys, or iron nickel alloys) they want to have it really magnetic. And we do have that also in our sort of “normal” armatures that go into, for instance, the Cadenzas and the Quintets. This is pure Iron which is really highly magnetic.

If it gets that close to a magnet it’ll just slam and then it’ll be stuck to it! We made the MC Anna many years ago and in it, we introduced a totally non-magnetic armature. That was inspired, especially for me, by the MC 5000. Why go into a non-magnetic armature if you have a lot of benefits from a magnetic armature? A magnetic armature will really work as an amplification for the output voltage because if you put more magnetic material into the air gap, the flux density is higher, and then you’ll have more output voltage.

This is what you want. Even if those cartridges did not have that much output voltage, that’s how they worked - the MC 2000, 3000, 5000. I was really inspired by that. In order to not have this very low output voltage, we made a special magnetic system for the MC Anna, and that was nice. The magnetic system that we have in the MC Verismo is not as strong as the MC Anna’s magnetic system.

If I wanted to go all the way and put a non-magnetic armature into the MC Verismo the output voltage would be very, very, very low. You could maybe use it but you would then need to have a very special preamp or an MC step-up transformer with a high amplification factor. So that would be a no go. So I needed to find a compromise. Again, design is very often about compromise. I did not want to stick with a magnetic armature because they are really affected by the static magnetic field. I wanted to go for a non-magnetic armature but I could not, so I had to find something in between, or “semi non-magnetic”.

The search for that material was interesting because none of the suppliers for this kind of material state “semi non-magnetic” properties. I had to look into the alloys to figure out what I could expect from these materials, and then we would buy different alloys from different suppliers and we would make armatures and cartridges out of them and try to figure out how they were really working. That was the development process for the MC A95. This is the same armature we also have in the Windfeld Ti. And now, we have put the same armature into the MC Verismo. It’s a perfect compromise … if there’s such a thing. But it’s a good compromise between magnetic and non-magnetic.

LD: When we talk about magnetic armatures and how they exist in most of our MC cartridges below, say the Cadenza Bronze, when you move into something like the Cadenza Bronze cartridge and move above that, a lot of them have what’s called “Field Stabilizing Element”. That’s really meant to address some of the shortcomings of using a magnetic armature with regard to what happens with the magnetic field. Is the Field Stabilizing Element going to be in use here in the MC Verismo cartridge? LJO: It still is, yes. You could say that you could maybe live without it because you have reduced the problem but the problem that the Field Stabilizing Element is correcting is not really about how the armature is affected by the static magnetic field. This is more like how a magnetic armature is moving in a magnetic field. Then, it will make some changes.

And physics for this kind of magnetic system sort of dictates that the system does not want changes. The system wants to be where it is because the system is in a stable position. Physics dictates that, if I make a change, then the system wants to go back. So if I make a change to the magnetic field due to the motion of a magnetic armature, then we really want to change that back and the way we can do that is by adding this Field Stabilizing Element, which is a cylinder made out of copper. The copper is coated in silver, in order to have low resistance. That cylinder sits around the armature.

Now, when the armature is moving and making this change, we have a current induced in the Field Stabilizing Element. That current produces a magnetic field that counteracts the change that was made by the armature. Now, the cylinder and the current that has been induced, will counteract the change. And the bigger the change in magnetic field, the more important the Field Stabilizing Element becomes. If the armature was totally magnetic (or magnetic like in most of our MC cartridges), you would need it more than in the MC Verismo.

The MC Verismo’s armature is still slightly magnetic so it will still add a little bit of benefit. We use it because we want to have the best possible sound. LD: Right. So this is something that, even though it might not be the most active versus other cartridges it’s something that we didn’t necessarily want to leave unturned.

A lot of times when it comes to cartridges it’s really about those small things that we do that add up into one big picture. For instance, coil wire. In this cartridge, we’re using Aucurum coil wire. What exactly is Aucurum? LJO: It’s a coil wire that was introduced by Ortofon, again, many years ago. It’s a gold-plated copper wire. We have a 6N copper wire that has been gold plated. This is a very nice wire to use in a cartridge like this, which could tend to be maybe a little bit too analytical like what you said at the beginning where you were expecting a cartridge with a very literal sound.

This wire is sort of giving a slight tweak to this… but it’s really a slight tweak. Coil wire does not determine the sound of the cartridge - ever - but it’s adding. As you said, there are many small things that add up to the total sound, and this Aucurum will add to the total sound in this way. Pure copper coated in gold is a perfect way of having the current that is induced transformed into this voltage that you want to have in your amplifier. LD: Right, so getting back to the sound of the cartridge, I think that the thing that’s really on everybody’s mind here is... how is this really going to be different from the cartridges that were before it, like the A90 or the A95? We know that there’s a diamond cantilever and we know that there’re some extra things that go into this cartridge but how would you personally make this description? I think that a lot of people who’ve owned these cartridges in the past are very interested in the MC Verismo and want to know what it brings to the table and how it’s going to benefit them? LJO: If we are looking inside the cartridge and exclude the diamond cantilever then we would get a sound that is sort of getting close to the sound of the MC A95, or maybe even the Windfeld Ti.

This is the sound you would get. Not totally because it’s been tweaked or adjusted by the new rubber suspensions so it’s not the same, but if you wanted to have an idea of the sound, that’s what you would get. But, as you’ve mentioned, there’s a diamond cantilever, which will make a big difference.

I remember maybe 6 or 7 years ago was when we first started to work with diamond cantilevers. Back then, we had the MC A95 and MC Anna in our lineup. We wanted to figure out what kind of sound we could achieve by replacing the Boron cantilever - which is a really good cantilever - by a diamond cantilever. We started making prototypes 6 years ago by putting a diamond cantilever into the MC Anna and MC A95. I remember the first time I heard the MC A90 at my place on my setup, I was really like, “What is this? What’s going on?” I was cuing down the record, cuing down the cartridge, and going back to my listening position but I almost did not even get back there because... I felt like, “what is this?” It was so exciting! It was almost the same experience when I started to test those prototypes of diamond cantilevers.

I thought, “Wow! Can this make this big of a difference going from Boron to Diamond?” It was so huge! I used it for a couple of years - and I mean years to really listen to the MC A95 and MC Anna with a diamond cantilever. You could say that I almost listened to the first prototype of the MC Verismo five or six years ago because I listened an MC A95 with a diamond cantilever. I was really fond of it back then. And that was also when I listened to the first prototype of the MC Anna Diamond because that’s basically what I had back then.

We wanted to make sure that this was really as good as we thought from my first listening experience. We decided to go to the market with the diamond cantilever in the MC Century. Do you remember that? LD: Oh yes, it was a very famous cartridge for us, and only a few were released worldwide - only 100 pieces. LJO: The response we got from reviewers and listeners who bought the MC Century was quite amazing.

They definitely agreed with me and Ortofon that this was a really good sound - one step further than before. This was like taking the MC Anna and MC A95 one step up. This is also why we introduced the MC Anna Diamond. As you said, the MC Century was only 100 pieces which quickly sold out. The sound from the diamond cantilever was so good that we wanted to have it in the MC Anna, so the MC Anna Diamond was born.

LD: I think this is interesting for a couple of reasons. First of all, hearing you recant the story about your first experiment with something like A90 and how it also was done with when you first used the diamond cantilever I find it really amusing because I think that a lot of people maybe don’t understand that not only are you the engineer responsible for cartridge designs... but you’re also a really serious listener. The things that give you great pleasure are very much the same as what gives listeners of Ortofon’s cartridges the very same sort of enjoyment.

I just have to point that out because you can talk about engineering stuff all day long and find it endlessly fascinating, but at the end of the day you are a very serious listener and this is what is driving innovation at Ortofon when it comes to cartridges is just that desire to present things which are improving analog playback for everybody. LJO: You’re totally right. I would normally phrase it in my way of phrasing that I’m trying to get a step further, I’m trying to get the sound that I want and then, at the same time I’m hoping that the sound that I want, the sound that I think is really good is also the sound that the listeners like. And so far, it seems like we have been doing a good job. LD: It does seem that way.

One other question about diamond cantilevers: What is it that makes a diamond cantilever so good? Does it have to do with the hardness of the cantilever? I mean, diamond being the hardest material in the world, is this what’s responsible, or is there something else behind it? LJO: It’s definitely the hardness of the material. You’re getting one step beyond the Boron cantilever. The transmission from the stylus moving in the groove up to the armature (which is sitting here) that transmission, this movement, is just one step further/better than a Boron cantilever.

This is harder and therefore it is better. No doubt, the hardness of the diamond makes a difference. LD: Is there anything else that we have neglected to mention about the MC Verismo? LJO: Well, this baby. LD: Ah, yes of course! The Replicant 100 diamond.

LJO: It’s not my baby. It was developed before I came to Ortofon but I really fell in love with it the first time I heard it in the MC 5000. The MC 5000 is important for me in this way. This Replicant 100 does almost a perfect job in the groove. What you want a stylus to do in the groove is you want it to get the signal out you want it to get the movements out that the cutting stylus made prior to that.

The cutting stylus is, of course, really sharp, because it has to cut vinyl and make really fine details. So you need to figure out a way to get these details out. Let’s call them “wrinkles” in the grooves, and they can be really small and narrow.

You want to get into all these wrinkles in the best possible way and, to do that you need to have a stylus that is really sharp. Of course, if we made it perfectly sharp, that would not be good because you would cut the record, and we don’t want that. So we needed to find a compromise where we could get it as sharp as we could get without damaging the record. Right now, the best way to achieve this is to use the Replicant 100.

And remember, we’re only touching the groove like this. We have it like this and nothing else is touching the groove. Down here is really sharp. We’re talking about a radius that is down to 4-5 microns. That is sharper than a razor blade. So it’s really sharp down there! Of course, you could be afraid to put that into the groove but if you look at it from the other side here where you have contact to the groove, there you have a big radius.

In total, if you have a long contact surface this way, but short this way then in total you have a decent contact surface to the groove. And it’s the area of this contact surface that will determine if you’re going to ruin the groove, re-cut it, or not. LD: Right. So what you’re saying here is that by having such an exceedingly large contact area on the whole this is actually going to have the benefit of reducing vinyl wear overall. LJO: Sure. This is really going down into the groove where the cutting stylus was and isn’t riding on top of them or anything else.

Nobody has to be afraid that the Replicant 100 is damaging their records unless they’re using it in a bad way maybe not cleaning the stylus, not cleaning their records, bad adjustment, or whatever then, of course, we’re talking about something different. This kind of stylus needs perfect alignment. If you want to have the best possible sound then definitely perfect alignment is necessary. If you do it then it really sings and you get the music out of the groove! LD: Right. And when we’re talking about alignment we can’t emphasize enough that even things like azimuth are super critical on something like Replicant 100.

In your assessment, for anybody who has been working with cartridges, who has mounted their own cartridges spent time with an alignment tool, maybe a microscope, or a few other things - this isn’t an impossibility to get perfect alignment. Not in the slightest! This is actually something that, given the time that is necessary to put into it I think that anyone with a serious turntable, a bit of a steady hand, and possibly a USB microscope can get this exactly right. LJO: Sure, sure. Take your time, have the right tools, and of course you can do it. LD: And also you have a video - also on YouTube - specifically about cartridge setup where you really go through each and every aspect of it.

I think that’s a huge benefit to people that might be setting up one of our cartridges to be able to actually see it from , well, you know... LJO: It’s from my point of view but you can talk to other people out there who might have a slightly different take on it. There are many people who are really good at setting up cartridges, but this is my take.

This is how I do it and this is how it’s been working well for me for many years. LD: That’s good because I think that in many different instances, we speak with listeners who are sometimes intimidated by getting a cartridge with a complex stylus shape because they understand that there are certain things that are critical about setup. What I always try to tell people is that if they just spend the time with it then it’s not an impossibility. They shouldn’t be worried about it. I think people sometimes tend to worry about cartridges. I think that it’s not really a matter of worrying so much as it is giving yourself the appropriate time and using your hearing to really understand if the cartridge is performing the way that it’s supposed to be.

LJO: Listening to the result after you setup is very important because your ears are really revealing. You can use a lot of measurement tools and a USB microscope (and you might need to) but you need to listen. And if you’re not satisfied, then try to tweak it a little bit. Small tweaks can make a really big difference if you’re talking about cartridges. So tweaking, yes, definitely, take your time. And enjoy setting up! It’s a good experience.

You learn about your cartridge, you learn about the stylus. You know a lot more about it. You can sort of relate to it and also understand if the sound suddenly changes then you’ll know how to check on why it’s changing. LD: Right. You gain a lot of perspective spending that time doing critical listening.

Somebody who is willing to put that amount of time in will ultimately have a great result. LJO. Sure. LD: Thank you so much for coming by today.

It’s been great to talk to you about this. I always enjoy getting to spend time with you because you offer so much deeper insight into what really is behind our products. You just come away from it feeling like you know so much more about our latest models.

LJO: Thank you Louis, thank you. I also enjoyed this. I think you are a good person to talk to about this because you have a lot of insight.

You have insight also about the sound and technology so in this way you can easily relate to some of the things I’m telling you as well as how this will change the sound. I’ve enjoyed it as well. Thank you for having me here. LD: Come back again soon! LJO: I will.

2022-02-28 04:28

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