Test Talks Interview on Katalon Studio
Welcome to the test, talks podcast. And place the coding feedyard on software, testing and now your own wish. Hey. It's Joe and welcome to another episode of, test. Hooks. Today. We're gonna be talking all about Catalan, studio. So. Finding the right test tool from all the available automation, tools that are out there is really tough I've, interviewed over 200 testers, and developers on, tests talks and based, on that treasure trove of automation, awesomeness, actually, created a resource, called the ultimate. Testing, tools list you, can get it at guild dot, show, forward. Slash tools. But. Since publishing, it I've done a bunch of comments asking why, I didn't. Include Catalan. Studio, on, that, list and the main reason why was that this list was based on just tools, that folks on test, talks had mentioned, so what I did as I got out and I found an expert and I'm lucky I found. Rageth. Pal, who. Was an awesome automation. Test tools expert, he. Has a really, cool YouTube, channel, called automation. Step-by-step, and he. Publishes, pretty, much weekly. Really. Detailed, videos. On all kinds, of different automation, tools and techniques, so you definitely want to check that out and so that's what today's episode, is all about, Catalan. Studio, and. Just. So you know for, the lucky folks that are able to listen to this early in the week you, still, have time to register for. The AI summit. Guild a one, day online, conference, dedicated 100% to. AI test. Automation, we, brought together some of the biggest vendors. In the AI automation, space as well as some of the biggest, thought leaders and hands-on. Practitioners. That, have actually started testing. Machine. Learning AI based technologies, and, I'm really excited about this lineup we have Terry King who's doing the keynote on a vision, of self testing, systems we, have Dan Belcher, from Mable which is one of the newer AI, based, automation, test tools out there on how, your career, is gonna change in the era of intelligent.
QA We. Have a cost the famous and great angie, jones eight. She does is awesome and she does not disappoint, she does it a great session on Show and Tell explained. Machine learning to me like I'm five we. Have Jason our Ben from test AI he also wrote was one of the co-authors of, how Google test software he's, doing a session on AI for user flow, verification. We, have Jeff Meyer from Dell on a, testing, journey in the age of smart, assistance, and our in Rubin from Testim. Which, is also a newer, popular. AI based automation, tool going. Over using AI to solve the quality, velocity. Dilemma, and, on top of it all we have an end a day round table, with, three experts, i hand-picked, to. Tackle, any of your questions around, AI automation, and I think we have a really great mix here we have Adam Carney who is the co-founder and, CTO at, applitools. This was one of the first tools ever tried, that. Was a little outside my comfort zone that, was using more machine learning based technology. That I didn't believe until I saw it and once I saw it I was hooked, this actually paved the way for what I think is gonna be a toy. Animation, test tool revolution, also. Know me Ferrara, will be joining us the testing, links she. Has awesome experience. Around actually testing, AI ml. Machine, learning, type algorithms, and also, we have Jonathan Wright who is an automation cyborg. Set, from the future to show us all the things possible, that, he sees with AI machine. Learning, automation, so, I'm pretty confident that any question, you might have around AI automation. This, round table can, handle, your question, don't, miss it you don't want to miss the live event head, on over to a, I, summit. Guild dot-com. And register. Today time. Literally is running out if you're listening to this on Sunday or Monday or Tuesday because, this happens on May 30th. Test. Talks are sponsored, by the fantastic. Folks at sauce, labs, the. Cloud base automated, testing platform, that eliminates the need to maintain your own selenium, grid and test, infrastructure. Try. It for free today visit. Test talks comm, and click on the sign up now' link under the homepage sponsor, section. Welcome, to test hooks thanks. Joe thanks for having me here it's, great to have you on the show this is actually a topic, I've been wanting to get a speaker for for a while and you were cool enough to say you. Would handle, it and come on the show so I like, to talk a little bit about test automation using. Catalans, studio before. We get into it you just sell us a little bit more about yourself yeah. Showed you absolutely. So. I started, in the software, and IT industry about, nine years ago and I. Started as a Java, developer and, due. To some business. Requirements, in the organization. I moved, into testing, I tried. My hands on manual testing for a while and then finally, moved into automation. Testing so. I got, really fascinated about, the topic and when I saw these, tools and diabetes that. Can be used by you know some quick scripting, and they can do a lot of things. And we, can actually. Automate a lot of manual testing I, got, really interested in this topic in the subject and I tried, to explore as much, as I can, so. I started, with front-end. Web, applications, using selenium. And similar, tools then. I moved into API. And, web services automation, I used. A soap UI and postman, for API, and web services testing. Then. I moved into performance. And I used jmeter, a lot for a web, services for websites. And you know similar applications. Then. I got, a chance to to. Work with CIE, and I used, Jenkins, a lot so I. Actually. Used, all these tools and got a lot of experience. With testing. And DevOps, in CI and automation, after. Some time when I had you know all this, tools and experiences, and automation, testing knowledge I felt.
That There was a need, to share. All this knowledge and hand over this knowledge to a lot of people, over you know who need some, very. Basic, simple. Step-by-step. Guides, to get started, so. That, was when I started my, youtube channel and, it's called, automation. Step by step so. That was about two years ago from now when I started the channel and I, post, or like, very basic step-by-step. Videos, on topics related. To automation. Testing. DevOps and CIE I, also. Have a website called, automation, step-by-step comm and it's. Live but there are some of the sections which are still under construction so, I am, currently working on that so all, the sections will be live about a month from now and. Apart, from that I also, write. A blog it's. A general, motivation, blog called life. Charge or dot o-r-g so, whenever I get some free time I write some. Articles there, and some of my viewers. And subscribers like. I really like reading them so that's, all about me, Joe, awesome. I like to dive into a few of the points you brought up with, your experience, the, first is up you, start off as a Java developer and. I guess what got you into automation, I have a hard time sometimes getting, developers to even be interested in, any sort of automated testing human unit testing so. In, my case it was like an organization. Requirement, there was some big, requirements, into testing, and a lot of people, from from, the developer, background, were moved into testing and that is how I came to testing, but. Yes what, we are saying is correct, there are a lot of you know there. Are challenges in. Having. A developer. Move into automation, testing so. I believe, you know what. The. Current trend is we, have, a roll, called ste. T which is software, development, engineer in test and I. Think what. We have seen is I have personally seen is that, kind of a roll really attracts. Developers, and we. Don't tell a called em testers, we call them you know software development, ingenious, in test, and if. We talk about today's, scenario and if. We talk about automation. It's, a lot to do with you know programming. Scales coding, skills and we. Really need good developer so I always believe that a good developer, makes a really good automation, engineer, so. I agree, I guess my, experience, working for a large company I find it very hard to find five. People with that skill set that they have developing, skills and they, want to do animation and they know how to test so. A. Lot, of times the tools we've selected have, been developer centric and yet developers, not utilizing, them so. I'm, just curious to know like with, selenium you usually have to do a lot of programming, yourself using the API and using a developer, language, is, that what got you into Catalan studio like what made you change. From more developed, well I think of a developer, centric testing. Approach. To a more, user. Friendly approach, using a tool. Like Catalan, studio so. It, was about a year ago and. Somebody. On my on my youtube channel sent. Me a message to check out this tool called Catalan, studio, and you know create. Some very basic tutorials, on that and. I. Didn't. Know about this tool and you know I've never heard the name of Catalan, studio prior to that so, it. Was a very busy day for me so I I was kind. Of ignored that message I said, okay I will do it but you know I didn't, not look into what exactly this is, then. On one of the weekends, I had some time and I was going. Through my earlier, messages, on my YouTube channel and I.
Came Across this message again and I said okay let me give it a look and let me see what it is actually so, I went on the website of, Catalan, studio and I downloaded. The tool I looked. At some of the documentation. And, I start. You know exploring, that tool very. Soon I figured out that this, is a great, tool particularly. For people who have very. Less programming, background, or coding. Background and. That. Was a time where a lot of people were you. Know sending me messages and, asking, about I do. Not have a, background. I do not have no coding how, should I start my career in test automation, so. That was a point I feel that you know this tool can be a great, it. Can, be really, useful for people like these and I decided. That I will make some videos on this so that you know it. At. Least my subscribers. Can see it and then you know they, can start with estimation, particularly, people who are who. Do not have a lot of programming. Background, and. During. That time this. Was this, tool was very, new so there, was you know there. Was not at all much documentation and, mention, about this, tool on any other websites, or on YouTube so I went, through the entire documentation. Which was available on, Catalan. Studios website, and it. Was like really really useful it was very clean and very well, organized documentation. And the user guides so very good and I was, very quickly able to you know create all these sessions and then a lot. Of people liked it and if. I see today you know you will find a, mention. About Catalan, studio on almost, every, popular, website, and you will find a lot of tutorials about, it so. I guess I should start off with this question at, a high level what is Catalan studio is it a a vendor. Tool is an open-source, yeah. So, Catalan. Studio is free. Automation, testing tool bike EMS technologies, it. Is not open source but yeah it is free and this. Tool can be used to do test automation, on front-end. Web applications. On mobile, and, on, web services or. The great thing, about this tool is it's a complete package and it's. A complete framework, so, you do not have to download or install any, other components. When you are working with Catalan, studio, you. Just have to download, the, Catalan. Studio which, comes as a zip package, and then you, unzip it and start the executor, and you, have a very clean. And good looking GUI. That you can use to start creating automation, tests and the. Great thing about this tool is the, learning curve is very small and you do not need any programming background. So people with no coding experience can, just you know download, it and start. Within ten minutes and they can start creating automation. Test cases. How. Are they able to create automation, without, coding which. I think is a probably, a bad practice long term but if they're just getting started I could see them using a recorder, but, what's. It using behind the scenes is it a programming, language is using selenium how, does that work so. Catalan studio uses, selenium, and APM, libraries behind the scenes and. What. They have done is they have created a very. Clean. And good-looking. GUI, or, and, wrappers, over these libraries, and. They. Have multiple ways of you know creating, a test case so using, the Catalan studio tool you. Can do a recording, and then once you have recorded your test case there are several options by, which you can modify and, then make. Your test cases ready you. Can also create, a. Test. Case in a manual mode so where you you. Select the actions, and this you select the data and keep. On adding rows, to, create a test case there. Is also a scripting, mode where you can use Java. And groovy, so, that is a great part because. Anything. If you do not find an existing. Keyword, within Catalan studio you, can create, a custom, keyword, so you can you can use custom. Keywords. And use java or groovy to create all these, special. Keywords, and you. Can also, add. Or, the, jars the external jars to get, launched to do so in case you have some java. Program written separately and you want to use it here in catalan suto you can do that as well and then, there are features like you can do. Parallel testing with multiple, browsers, or we, can also do, remote, testing. By going to remote service, providers, like sauce. Labs or browsers tag and then. There is, integrations. With JIRA. Jenkins, and test. Management tools so this is like very, interactive. Cool. So it sounds like uses, a keyword driven approach which which, has been around for a while one. Concern that comes up is say someone has a lot of tests say 500, tests and there's.
A Change to one of the test scripts. Usually. When, you're using like selenium you, can create a page object so if anything changes you go to that one location if. Someone's using this tool and they're just creating scripts randomly. Using keywords. How. Do they make their tests maintainable. That's. A really good question too so, in. Catalan studio we use some similar. Kind of approach, so. When we create objects, there is an object repository. And there. Are options, where you can classify. Your objects, into different pages and you, can actually create, different, folders now. It's up to the user how exactly, he wants to classify. These folders, maybe based. On our test case or maybe page, on the website so. It. Will be like saved. Separately, and, classified. Into, an object repository. So, whenever these there, is any change in one some of the objects, you do not have to go to the. Entire test case and change, the things it's, like you can go to that particular pages, object. Object, repository, and then make, the modifications, there so it's kind of the same as page object model that we use. Outside. These tools. Cuz. I don't know familiar you are we're going to choose like quick. Test professional unified. Functional, testing but it sounds like that type of same approach for, people that may not be haven't. Seen Catalan, studio, before yeah. Actually it uses a similar kind of approach when it comes to object, repository, people, who have used qtp. Or UFT will find it like very familiar. A plus. The, the GUI, is built, over Eclipse, SDKs, so they have actually used eclipse SDK, and built the GUI over there so, people who have worked with Eclipse will find it very familiar, while working with Catalan, studio another. Thing that would come up when someone uses. Selenium. Wrapped in something else a lot of times there's extra, benefits, to it and you've mentioned a few of them already but, one of them is, synchronization. When, you're interacting, with an object or an element a lot of times you, get synchronization. Issues and sometimes these types of tools handle, extra. Things behind the scenes so you don't have to worry about that, Catalans studio do any sort of functionality. Like that, yes. There, are a lot of new features, inbuilt. Features in this tool and. Even. If you are working with some, applications. Built over let's, say angular or angularjs, technologies. They. Have some you note some libraries, and keywords separately, for them and there, are keywords like wait for angular load and things like that so it's. Like very interactive, or, I think working. With any any of the front-end, web applications, should, be pretty easy working, with Catalan studio there are a lot of inbuilt, keywords that we can directly use and just, in case any, anything, custom is required is always, the possibility. To, add, custom keywords, here awesome. So I think another interesting use case that you brought up and that a lot of people struggle. With this API testing, so, a lot of times with selenium you have to get a third-party library that, handles, interacting. With rest services, and web sources but it sounds like this has API. Functionality. Built into it it sounds like you've used the API functionality, how does it compare to say jmeter. Or, true that was made for API testing, specifically, and, that's a great question Joe so yes, Catalan, studio has, this functionality, of web, services, testing, and we can test.
Rest, Also web services with, this tool however. I believe that there is a lot of improvements. Required there. When. I use tools, like jmeter. Or I have used postman, as well I think, for. API, testing, in specifically, these tools are much. Better as of now and I. Think Catalan, studio needs to improve a lot of you know things on the on the API front so. I guess what people might get hung up on is net it's not open. Source but it's free, do. You know what what that model means to people that want to implement this is could they actually charge for it at some point and then you're, kind of stuck into, purchasing. It because you have your your test strategy built around this tool yeah. Sure so - let, me first you know just explain. About our free. And open, source so. Whenever, we, see a free, tool that means you. It's available. Free. Of cost to use it however, you, will not be able to get the, source, code of the tool so for example you will not be get into the into. The codes or into the configurations. Of the tool and you know you cannot, actually go. And change, the, underlying. Codes, in that, tool but yes you can use, it free of cost when. We talk about open, source that means people, have access, to the source code of the tool or two of the library and people. Can actually walk. On it modify, it or you, know add or do, any kind of changes, there so, Catalan studio is not open source but it is free and. The. Next part that you said was you know going down the line whether you know it. It, will be like charged, or it will be like you know it will become a. Licensed. Or something like that so. I actually, you. Know got. In touch with Catalan. Team and I, had this question because this this was a very common, question when I started. Creating. Videos, on Catalan, studio a lot of my viewers and my subscribers, asked me this question that this looks like a very cool tool a lot of features and we have not seen this kind of a tool freely. Available so, is it like just, a trial version and after some time they will start charging or something else I got, in touch with the Catalan team and asked the same question and they said that it is going to be free for lifetime it is not we are not going to charge for it but yes it's, free but not open-source.
Cool, Sorry I know you don't work for Catalan, studios but like I said I've, seen you you've been using it for a while and you have talked, to them a bit do they offer premium, services, what's, their angle here I guess, they must offer support. Or something at a premium, yes. Joe so did they offer premium services, but, earlier, they had a support, email, which was supported. Catalan comm and when I started, working with the this tool it. Was like whenever. There was a show you could send. A email to this particular email id and you will receive a response like within 24, hours as. Of now there is a, documentation. Page and then there is a support channel online available, and. Most. Of the you know the support comes from there. Then there is a premium. Services, as well that they charge for there's. One of the questions on the FAQ sides which says do offer test automation services so they. Have actually given a contact, form for that so you know maybe, I can answer modulator. To that because somebody. Has to contact them and then they will reply like, what what exactly you. Know they. Weren't and they will charge for so. I guess, my concern is, when I work for a large company. Sometimes. Freemen things there's certain, things in the licensing, that makes it so you you can't really use it and also, when you download, it you have to agree to to a license, if. You're working at a large team across multiple locations I able, to check cattle, on studio code into say your repository, version control repository and. Use it just like you would selenium. Yes. A good question Joe so of. Course, when we work at an enterprise level this. Is a concern that you know how exactly, a group of people will work on the same code and understand the same framework, so, cattle, on studio has. Addressed, that issue and, they. Have inbuilt. Integration. With great, so you can always have, a github. Repository and. Put all your code and framework. Libraries there and then a, lot of people a group of people can work on that and even, if you if the people do not have a lot of experience. With version control system Catalan, studio has made it really easy because, they have these icons, right available, on their UI from, where you can clone. Pull and push and you, know do all kind of version controlling, and sharing with the. Group so I think that that thing they have already addressed, right, from the beginning oh so. Interesting, so do you think it makes it easier for people to collaborate, in this environment using, Catalan studio with that type of model, yeah. Of course because what I believe is using. Catalan studio. In, case we are working with you know a lot of people, and all along our group is working on the same project or the same framework the. Only thing they require is to have. Catalan, studio downloaded, on their, workstations. And then. They, can put. Their code, into, a posit Ori and then everyone, can do a undo a clone. And then can do a pull and then work. On their, their. Machines and then push. It and then you know can collaborate, and merge so I believe if it follows, the same. Get. Conventions. So it should be pretty, easy to collaborate within a team are there any debugging, features that are that that. They've added that, makes it easier to debug test.
Test Automation test, when they fail or, reporting, ah yes. They they have our debugging feature they have you, know you, can actually. Create, break, points and then debug your test case and it is something. Similar, to what we do in Eclipse, because it's built, over Eclipse SDK so those, debugging, features are like in build along. With that reporting. And the information. That we get the logs that we get they are like very intuitive, so, there, are a lot of filters. Available in the log so you can you know filter out the logs the only only the warnings, if you see if you want to see only, the failed steps, all these, things, are there then. There are you know some really, cool features like you. Can skip. Particular, steps or scale particular, test. Cases in a test suite you. Can also make, different test, Suites turn on different browsers parallely, and then. In case you want to. Make. Some, steps optional, and then you want to make some steps to, stop the execution if it fails all those, things are available and there are you know just a few clicks and all. These things you know and get, active. And generated, so that is a cool feature with this tool so. It sounds sounds awesome is this your go-to automation. Tool now or do you still use selenium. Without. Using Catalan studio, for. A lot of enterprise. Projects. I still, use selenium, and, to. Be frank I have not used Catalan, studio for an enterprise level project, but. Yes a lot of viewers. On my channel and as subscribers, on my channel have, used this tool and they. Have found it very useful so they send me messages and they tell me that they, have really found it useful. Plus if you go to the website of Catalan, studio you'll, find there are a lot of big, organizations who. Are already using it so there is GE Accenture. Easy. Links, all these. Organizations. Are using this tool so I believe. You know this is really helping in test automation so. Is there a reason why you're not using it for enterprise, companies. Do not fully, trust it or is it just because companies. You work for I don't know if you're a consultant or some they just want to use selenium. Yes. Joe so this. Is like, a like, a very new tool in the market, and a, lot of, people do not know about this tool that is number one and then. Number two, is a lot, of companies that I work with are, very, much familiar, with selenium, so, they you know normally, want. To go with selenium and a custom framework, I think, this. Is picking. Up pace this tool is picking up pace and I believe you know in the in the coming few. Months or so there will be a lot of acceptability. Of this tool enterprise-level. So I think this is going to be like really. Useful, learned a lot of enterprise level projects, will be using this tool, very.
Cool Sera gab you mentioned life charger, you give us an example of what what, would you post on life charger like can you have any motivational. Quotes. That actually, apply, to automation, engineers, a, general. Advice that I, will, give. To you know all automation, testers, or engineers, is that a lot. Of people. Send. Me messages, saying that, they, do not have, you. Know a lot of experience, in automation, or they do not have a lot of programming, experience or, programming. Background, and, they. Are like very reluctant. To start with automation, and. It's. Like I have seen this in you, know I get like one or two messages, almost, every every. Week about this, so. What I just want to you know say. About this is this, always. Something. That we start for the first time and, it. Is something it is like what I started, so I was, although. I was, chained into into Java developer, but that was for a very very brief period and it, was like I had not done a much on Java and then I started with testing. And most. Of the things is I have learned while. Working on the projects, all while. Are, you know going through tutorials, and then learning myself, so. I think. That you should take one step at a time and go, step by step and there, is nothing that you cannot learn or you cannot achieve so, I believe that whatever is that you want to start. Doing or start learning, just. Take the first step today it. May be a very small step do not worry about that you. May fail one time or several times or. Do not worry just take the step be bold, be confident, and, after. Some time you will read somewhere, so that's. That's for sure that's, what you know I just want to share with everyone I, know. A lot of times when people write. It their test suite they don't think about running them in parallel and when they get to that point they usually have to do a lot of refactoring to, make sure there's no no. Issues when they do run in parallel so, you, didn't mention that Catalan, studio does offer some sort of parallelization functionality. You just sell us a little bit more about that, yeah. A very good question Joe so. This is true like whenever, we want to run you know test cases in parallel, we. Often face a lot of challenges and. There. There are features within, the frameworks, and we can code for it but I have seen that even, experienced, people faced challenges while writing a code for such features, like running. Multiple test cases in parallel and there - with different browsers. So. This is one thing that Catalan. Studio has done, very well and I was really impressed by. This feature and in. This tool what you can do is you can, put. Your test cases into test Suites so for example you have five, test cases you can put two. Test cases in one suit and then the third one in is a second, suit and the rest in the third, suite and this. Can be done, in any logical, way so. Sometimes, people are through. This classification, based on their modules of the application, for example a login module will be as prett sweet, and then, the, user.
Creation Module can be a different, suite sometimes. People, also do. This based, on the. Testing. Modules, for example a smoke testing suite and then, a regression testing suite and the sendee testings good so, whatever logical, way you can group you can group those test. Cases into, seeds and then. There, is a test, suite collection. Runner in Catalan studio which, can have multiple. Test, Suites so you can add all your test suits into a collection, runner and then. You. Can run your test Suites, in parallel, plus. You can also select. The, browser, on which you want to run so, for example you want to run the first suite, on Chrome, the second one on Firefox. And the third one on IE and all. Will run at the same time in parallel the. Other thing that you can do is for. Example you want to run the same test suite but you want to test on different browsers, so you can add the test suite three. Times in the test suit collection, and you, can say the first suite should run on Chrome the, second one on Firefox, and the third one on IE so the same test suit will run in parallel on three different browsers, so, that is a very cool feature with Catalan, studio, ok. Raghav before, we go is there one piece of actionable. Advice you, can give someone to improve their cattle and studio test automation efforts, and. Let us know the best way to find a contractor so. One. Piece of advice are very generic advice that you know I want to give to anybody using, Catalan, studio or even using some you know some custom frameworks, is that irrespective. Of, the, tool or or the other framework, you are using. Always. Have a very structured way, of, creating, your frameworks, and always. Create. Your test cases which are like modular, in nature and. Which are atomic in nature so. By atomic I mean that, your. Test cases should, be an individual. Entity, and should. Not be dependent on a lot of different. You know components, here and there so. If you do that it, will be very useful while, you're doing parallel testing because I have seen this that. When these test cases are not structured, properly or the framework is not structured, properly and it, is not very clean modular approach when. You want to go with parallel testing you always have a lot of difficulties, so I think this, is one, advice. That I want to give to everyone so. You can reach me on my LinkedIn account which, is Raghav pal, and you. Can also. Go. To my channel on YouTube which, is automation, step-by-step or my, blog which is life charge or dot orgy so you, can email me or send me a message on any of these platforms and I. See all my messages and I reply to all thank. You Raghav your automation. Awesomeness. Likes. Everything of value we covered in this episode, head, on over to test talks dot-com. Forward. Slash. 2:04, and while, you're there make sure to click on the sign up for free trial, link under, the exclusive sponsor. Section, to, learn all about sauce. Labs, awesome. Products, and services and. While you're there make sure to click on the AI summit. Guild banner, to. Register. For the first ever online conference. Dedicated 100% to. Just AI automation. And testing you don't want to miss it it's happening May 30th, go to AI summit. Gilt.com so. That's it for this episode of test. Talks I'm Joe my, mission is help you succeed creating, automation, Ausmus, has, always tests, everything and keep, the good. Thanks. For listening to the test, talks podcast, head on over to triple w dot s, talks comm for full show notes amazing. Blog articles, and other automation. Awesomeness.