Tenacious MEP Problem-Solving
Hello innovators, i'm todd wyatt and welcome to the bridge in the gap podcast, sponsored, by applied software. You're invited to join our mep, and construction. Innovation, adventure, with a mission to propel this great industry, forward. My guest today is travis althouse, mep. Implementation, manager at ravisto. He's a tech savvy construction, professional, with a proactive. Tenacious. Creative, approach to problem solving, welcome to the show travis. Thanks todd thank you for having me. Yeah absolutely. So we'd love to start by. The story of how you got into the construction, industry. Um. So. Long story, short. My family has a history and i have two brothers that are about 10 years older than me. They've always. Kind of pushed towards construction, my dad's been a, hvac. Technician. Like pretty much his whole life so. Um kind of just jumped in behind, them, i went to school for engineering. Realized, i didn't, necessarily, like math. Which is a big deal with engineering. Rule out some engineering. Yeah, like i'm good at math i enjoy it but like doing like the the. Limits, of, like, imaginary. Numbers and stuff some of you engineers might know what that means but that that's what threw me and i just dropped it and went with construction, management. So. Then the rest is history. Yeah. Very nice uh, what do you think have been some of the, the biggest. Changes, in the industry, over the the past. You know. Year, two process, and technology-wise. Um. Well, this year for sure what i have seen is a major change in mentality. Um. Obviously. Uh all this stuff, kind of happened real quick. And this whole we've all been working, for a while on this digital. Kind of transformation. The, doing. Uh digital twins. And being able to work remotely, you know, i've had several positions, where i could i could work remotely. But nobody ever did, well now all of a sudden we had to it was just like all of a sudden we we absolutely, have to we got to keep productivity. Up. Um, so that's the big thing i've seen is a lot of those higher up managers, and stuff really embracing. Uh that that remote workflow. And really allowing, people to do what they do, and relying, on them to do what they do you know, relying on the tradesmen, to give the proper input. For a job, that's going to be prefab, that type of stuff. Yeah. Do you think it's, that mentality, is here to stay or is it gonna. Kind of shift back. When. Whenever we open, fully back up and things. Whatever the new normal is or we already in the new normal we've already made, the jump over, right. Well the the tech savvy, tenacious. Part of me says, not if i can help it, nice. You know, and that's one of the reasons, why, i really enjoy what i do i enjoy the team i work with is because we're we've, obviously, been one to fill that void you know at ravista, we've been able to really. Kind of allow them to keep doing what they do. And then they just use us to communicate, and then they just have to adapt a little bit instead of completely reinventing, the wheel. We're just kind of. Resetting. And re-polishing, what we do you know and just, embracing, those guys on the ipads. Yeah i like seeing guys out on site on ipads. Yeah. It's always an, exciting, site to behold oh yeah, yeah i'm like a little kid just like yes.
I Like you. Nice. Uh. Do you think all this disruption. That has been going on. In the, digital transformation. Um, has that given, more of a voice to. Mep. Oh without, question. I think it's it's driven, the the. It's shown everybody, the need to have meps. Involved, more you know instead of, before it's kind of just the engineer. Gives the design, to like the gc. And then the meps, just get like the leftover. Trash, a little bit and it's like here you got a couple months to build this you know good luck. And now it's kind of because, all that's disjointed, we have to be more effective, on construction, sites we have to be more efficient, with our time. With our material, flow, we got to stay out of each other's way, six feet you know so. It's been really interesting, to see. Um, that they're relying, on the tradesmen, and everything to say how do you want this built. I'm designing, it and i don't know what i'm doing. You know what you're doing and you're going to be installing, it so you teach me you know and that's that's. The big shift i've seen is that now, it seems like trades, in the field, understand, that a lot more and understand, the constraints, of them. And. The bim people are a lot more open, because they can't just walk around the office and ask people questions. Now they have to actually go directly to those trades. And i think it's really, um. It's really enabled. People like myself, you know a few years ago that was me i'm like. I came from an engineering, firm i thought i knew everything. And then we started. I got into prefab, and i'm like man i don't know anything, i don't know what any of this is, luckily i could go down to the shop and ask somebody, you know or something like that but it took a while to get out of my comfort, zone, yeah, i think this has really pushed people like myself, to get out of her comfort zone. Or fail, you got to go ask him or you're going to fail that's, pretty much as simple as it gets. Yeah, yeah, for sure so, i know i think one of the interesting. Kind of twists on that, it seems that the mep guys have been the ones. Uh. You know as you said they've been getting the kind of the leftovers yet they're the ones that have been. More on the innovative, mindset, and growth mindset you can figure out the. New and, how. Cool way to do it and how do we really embrace, technology, so, it seems like they're kind of, in the driver's seat now, like welcome to the call everybody. Right, what i think is funny about that is that. It's, it's pretty clear that like meps, in general. Have had a good grasp, on it you know, they've had a really good grasp on everything they've put the most time in their databases. And making their parts right, making everything, work with their, tiger stop machines, and all this stuff you know. And. It's just always been. They've used it for that, and not necessarily. For. Bim stuff or like not external, coordination, with other trades it's always just kind of been. In-house, making sure these parts are right and our spools come out right. Whereas now. Again it's it's getting very clear that hey, if we work with these other people, we can do, multi-trade. Racks and then charge them per hanger, or, you know say hey electrical, guy you can hang off my, this whole hallway, of hangers, you know and, you know just give us, 10 grand, or something whatever the dollar amount is you know.
I Think that collaborative. Mindset. Is really starting to take off here in the last couple years. Yeah, interesting. Well let's uh let's talk a little bit more contact. There there's so many options. Now that it's. So easy to get totally lost and just overwhelmed. How do you, avoid, that and, therefore, just you know just kind of stay in the status, quo. Um, well the big thing that i always start with is discovery. I mean like no matter what if it's, if it's me, trying to help somebody else implement, something, obviously, if i'm trying to, implement ravisto, which is kind of a. In-between. Kind of platform, that everything, plays nice with. I have to know who's using it and why, i can go show you how i use some tool. But you might be like that's worthless, to me, like, a big thing i find all the time is you know i go down this rabbit hole of prefabrication. And talking about that. 20 minutes later it's like what's prefabrication. You know, yeah so i think it's really important, to know. Who's using what and why you know and what their capabilities. Are so. The biggest thing i always recommend, is as much discovery, as possible. Um and not only. Like, doing the discovery, up front but do the discovery. Do a soft implementation. With maybe one project, or like a capable. Foreman, and bim guy or something you know. And then, do another discovery, go back and ask them what did you like what did you hate. And and then implement, again. And fix what you did wrong before, and at that point maybe bring another, project, team in. You know maybe get a little more advanced, with your workflows, maybe test some stuff out, but it's just this constant, process, of discovery. Implementation. Discovery. Implementation. Um. That's a big part of what i do. I'd like to have, schedule, i schedule my own like touch points with clients and stuff i always want to make sure i'm on top of how they make money and then i want to show them, how they can make more money. Yeah. So. For sure i'd say that's the big key. Interesting, uh, so. You know there's, there's a bunch of tools out there uh-huh you know whether it's what you guys are doing with ravisto, of bringing the data and the drawings together.
Uh You know, providing that more kind of instant communication, or, you know whether like our, involvement. Team, bringing the designer. Helping them actually design and coordinate. At the same time, how do people find out about these options, and then. Assess. Kind of what works best. For them. Well, um. In my experience. So i i worked under john marsh previously. In my experience, i just trusted that man, with my life you know. He would be the one i mean i know. As i've gotten out there and seen more, it was that he was going to ncaa. And mep, for us is amazing. I take so much from mep, force but. Um those, those trade shows you know, it's not about going booth to booth and just getting cards, and like. Going and checking it out on your own go have dinner with those people chat with them figure out. Like, what their, plan, is what their passion is that type of stuff. And that's where you start. And then, again. The best way to figure out you know how you're gonna apply it or what you're going to apply, is to. Go back and figure out what your problems, are. Now you know that you have all these things like evolve i love evolve, that's it's a major problem. That like. I would be laying out. I literally would lay out an entire, job. And i would spool the whole thing, and i would send it out to the job site i've never welded in my life, i've never i didn't know really what a spool was, i didn't know what street elbows, were, and i'm laying out millions of dollars of pipe, whereas evolved, kind of, i love the name of the podcast, by the way it bridges that gap it makes it to where, those people can give the exact, input that's needed when it's needed. Not like, oh i'm out here on site, and this thing's hanging above me and i don't know how to attach it you know no, three months before that they get in there. They get it how they want it. Doorbell. But they get it exactly, how they want it you know. Before it ever gets delivered. I think that's a big key also, to, when you, go, get those technologies. Um, something that jonathan, also taught me is there's. Like a dynamic, champion, and then there's like a more, like a dynamic, champion, somebody that just wants to do all this crazy, inventive, stuff they want to apply stuff creatively. But then there's like a static, champion, or like a ground, basically, to keep that guy, realistic. Like keep them. Inside, the constraints, of time and money you know. Um so i'd, say the big thing is if you ever if you're a bim manager and you go out and you find something cool with mep, force. Don't come back and just throw it at one of those guys. Pick a team like pic, pick a guy that you know is a more realistic. Guy that watches, hours, that knows roi. And then pick that crazy mad scientist, guy, team them up, and challenge, them you know, that's the best way you're gonna get something realistic, that's probably gonna, save you time and make you money. Yeah. I love that approach of having that balance, there. Between the, dynamic, and static. How. Realistically. How does that relationship. How do you set it up for, success. And, them not just, kill each other by, approaching. Drastically, different points of views. That's a good question, um. Because that's. Jonathan, was experimenting. With us and. And that did happen, on on occasion, you know and basically, the the key is you like have a third party, if you as the bim manager, bringing the technology, back. Just keep it keep touch on it don't overwhelm, people, don't like stand over their shoulder and try to guide them, let them, be free let them do what they're doing, but at least. Like chime in maybe every other week or something just try to keep a pulse on how it's going. Um. And also. Definitely, set up for metrics.
Um. Metrics, are a big deal, you're going to want to set up like. Okay, after a month. I expect. A document, saying how many hours you saved. Doing a certain task or something like that you know definitely, set up metrics, for yourself, don't just let them go and, destroy, a project. Yeah. For sure it's never good and that's another key too don't, if you can don't do a like multi-million. Or billion dollar job, you know that. Once you implement you're stuck with it for five years do something, small bite off little chunks. And just, attack it bit by bit and slowly involve more people. Yeah. I'm all for that kind of snowball. Effect yeah exactly, and that's what would happen is it's like. We'd finally get it right we might be bickering. A bit but it's just two of us you know and we figure it out, and then poof now they're now all the foreman are like we're making bank we're crushing it on time, and then everybody, wants to hear like, how why you, you started two years ago how the heck are you the most profitable. Foreman, or or bim coordinator, you know, yeah well that's that's, starts that snowball. That's always fun, yeah oh for sure. What are some of your kind of go-to. Success, metrics. Success, metrics, um i always go to the end user, um, i always fall back. After your discovery, you've got your problem. And and who that problem pertains, to and then you're kind of prioritizing. What you tackled, by that you know what's the biggest thing costing, us money by not having and then you go for that if it's, that your designers, don't know how to spool and they need something like evolve, to, to help them through that then we're going to go after that first you know if we have bad communication. Maybe you're going to go something. Like we have you know. But as far as metrics, i always go back to the end user, so. That, process, of discovery. Implementation. Discovery. Implementation. I always go back in that discovery. And just say, hey, is it better. Tell me point blank it's just me and you you know. Is it better, if it's not why. What do you think, and a lot of times it's funny what what i would run into, is that would be their chance to vent, you know the field would vent to me and. I. Want to use this but i i can't because of this and that and it's like, you quickly realize oh we just need a little more training, we need this little add-in, or i just need to tweak the database. It's usually some little thing. And then you can re-implement. And again. After you re-implement, come back a week later and ask the end user. That's usually the best metric, at the, start. Um and that said. You don't want somebody you don't want like a clock puncher, to be this, this person this champion you know you want somebody, passionate, about it, if it's a clock puncher it's just going to be like yeah it's great or no it doesn't work you know you want somebody passionate, that's out there documenting, it that wants. To truly make this thing work. They're going to give you an honest feedback, if it doesn't work they're going to say yeah this ruined my life. Yeah, for sure. I've been told that before, with a smashed, ipad they gave me a smashed, ipad, and said this ruined my life take it back. That's awesome. Yeah. My kids have actually just crashed, my. Office now. Sorry about that. They, very stealthily, snuck around the corner. They were just hiding behind me. Oh you wouldn't believe. The, i mean maybe you do you're you're digital enough you've probably seen some hilarious, background, stuff but oh man. I've seen some people where they're like dead serious meetings got like suit tops on and stuff and there's just like a trail of little kids like sneaking around the background, like. Don't let dad see us. You're on camera. Yeah it happens. I think this is the the first time that they've snuck into an actual. Podcast, recording. You uh, you win the prize travis. Right. Yes. It was so interesting, they had to hear it that's right. All right. Let's uh let's dive back in. So, travis what are some uh, some ruts and and pitfalls, that. People. Need, to be on the lookout for, when, they're trying to implement contact. Um. Naysayers. For lack of better term, i actually just had lunch. With with my tba, buddies, um from my my engineering, job a couple years ago and uh. That was our favorite term was naysayers. No matter what you bring to the table.
You Know it's like oh i'm not doing that i've done i've done it this way for years pencil drawings are way faster, i've been told that i had a boss tell me once that, he could do pencil drawings way faster than i could work in revit and i'm just like. Do you want me to take your job. You know, like, do you want to challenge, that, right that's a pretty, good accusation. You know let's do it right now. Right. Oh no he's probably happily, retired, at this point but. Uh that was another thing john taught me was the word he would use for was a poison pill. Um and the biggest thing i saw was those people that just they just want to derail, everything. And uh. A funny story i always tell. About. A situation, where that exact thing happened with me. So i was a big believer. In and communication. Like when i was doing coordination. That's why i'm at ravisto, that's why i used ruvisto. In the real world you know i, used it for years before i worked here. And i was training, i got my whole field to buy in. And i was training everybody, and slowly like it was like 10 people one week then 20 people. And then suddenly we had like a 50 person training. And, that snowball, was happening. And all these people that swore, off. Uh technology. The naysayers. Were finally interested. And one of the head naysayers. For lack better. Uh came in and was just like oh man. Look at that pipe you messed that weld up on that pipe you expect me to listen to you about this technology, but you can't get that right. And i'm like. Yes. Yes, i've, welded zero times in my life, i see the welders downstairs. But i don't know how to use it you know i don't know, the ins and outs like, but. I could teach you how to use this little stylus, here and, circle that pipe and say hey travis. Put this weld here instead, you know, and i could teach you that in about 20 seconds. You know. On your ipad. Um but it was a, really, loud, point from him because he said it in front of all these foremen, trying to impress them and. Kind of, talk down on the tech guy. When in reality, it was just like. Hey everybody. We're gonna have a, live example, today you know here take this ipad. Circle, that, circle that problem and tell me how to fix it you know, yeah um and i thought that was interesting, i took one of those poison pills, in one of those. Negative. Things, and just, live on the spot made an example out of it was like hey this is why communication, is a problem here you know. Right so i, i, that's a, really important part too with those dynamic, champions, usually they're the ones that are going to be able to immediately. Just. Shut that down and put a real world condition, to it you know, yeah so that's so important to be able to, spin it around too and, and to, show exactly what you did, yeah that's awesome yeah, yeah because, again going back to that mindset, a lot of these a lot of coordinators, like myself, coming up a lot of people are really shy, you know somebody could say that and it's just like oh well. Now i'm just like i'll, start, muttering, you know maybe i'm mumbling, and i like i get nervous, like, that was me. Until that day that day was like me coming out like just figuring out, okay, i have some power now, yeah. I have technology. Super powers. There you go. Not to go all uh psycho, analyzing, on that guy but, he's probably. You know trying to. Hide behind so much insecurity, that he doesn't want he's scared of the, the technology, he's gonna look stupid.
And So it's, way easier to, just trash it than. Yeah. Show that he's. Not good at it. Yeah, right and it's like the same as the the old boss that i had that said he could, draw by hand faster. He had to know that's ridiculous. Yeah you know, he had to know that but i think he was just trying to. Like, it's a lot of people putting people in their place you know that's what's happening in the industry like oh. You're college educated, and you know how to use the software, and you think you're going to be able to do what i did for 30 years. No but i think if you spend two years teaching, me like the future is very bright, you know. Right, yeah and i'm not drawn by pencil. Those days are gone, yeah, for sure. I think you bring up a an interesting dynamic there too of have you heard of the uh, reverse, mentoring. Concept, where. Uh you bring in a younger person that's, more up on technology, and then you pair them, with. Somebody who's. Seasoned, and. Has that real world. Experience, with it, and so the younger person teaches the technology, but the older person then teaches. The, real world aspect of it, when it's done. Well. It seems to be a really cool. Way to. No pun intended here uh bridge the gap, and, get the best of of both worlds. Yeah, because both sides. Need something that the other side has. And both sides kind of have a chip, on their shoulder about the other side. Exactly. Yep. Yeah i think that kind of was naturally, done to me in in my role because it was just kind of like. Here's this technology. Here's the bim requirements, it's an lod, 500, model. Good it's got to be within, two inches, of where it's installed, you know good luck. And that was where i was just like oh my god what do i do, they're yelling at me for these like for street elbows what the heck is a street elbow, you know. Yeah i had to learn, that lingo, and everything, yeah. And that's where it really helps to be in the same, kind of communication. Bubble. Because, now. Like i became friends, you're talking about bridging that gap and and really like connecting, with those people i became friends with those people, yeah i think that reverse, mentoring. Was pulled on me someone pulled a fast one on it. Yeah. I'm not angry about it at all i'm actually really happy about it but that's interesting, because like like i said then i became able to like talk to those people we we humanized, each other, yeah i want to like encourage, people like don't be the guy that's afraid to speak up everybody's, got the same problems, everybody. You know. Some people just, are loud about it some people, just, enjoy, that they have a job, and they clock in you know right they don't want to make ruffles. Or ruffle feathers. Right i definitely, like. As far as ruffling, feathers, i just like hit the bird out of the air with a baseball, bat. Somebody's gonna be that person. Yeah, right. Yep then you just gotta rope me back in.
Nice. Anything that we didn't, touch on that. You want to make sure we we cover. As far as, implementing. And being consistent, with your implementation. Set up job templates. Like always set up internal templates. If nothing else just have a document, that says. This is what we did on this job this is what we did on that job and then know your teams and know. Going back to the dynamic, and static thing know which people you could pair up and what kind of standard, you have to, push on that job you know yeah maybe you don't want to use, dado, i'm going to go back to dado because i love it but, dado is like one that maybe, maybe there's not a need for it on a certain job so maybe if you got a dado champion. Use him somewhere, else to push it on another job. And keep your. Ravisto, and evolve guys you know, on another job. And then. Use that implement, that end your cross training whenever you're, whenever you want somebody to learn one or the other, then put them on a project team together. Right, yeah that question the whole community. Yeah. A lot of people try to just, wing it like oh. These. These people work great together, you know some people just can't work together, you gotta you have to know that anyway. Up front. Hopefully. I don't know. I don't know that everybody, cares i know certain companies, do you know the teams you can pair up you know so. Just go one step further, and, not, not just know their personality. But know their skill set. Know their. I mean, even one further know what they're willing to do. If you got a foreman, like uh. There's a guy at, binsky, dave. Dave wilson, he's a. He's a character, he's embraced. Technology. To its fullest, and he is, loud about it you know, so he's the guy that. I run to him with like hey check this cool thing out he geeks out he tells his team gets them geeking out. That's, that's what you got to do you got to put people, kind of in their place where they feel comfortable. And then. Push, push a little bit. And that's another important point i wanted to, bring up about implementation. Is that cross-training. Like, once you have that, once you have a connection, between a field guy and a bim guy you know. Switch it up, either like maybe not. Like maybe keep the foreman and the bim guy together. But then maybe like. Put a. New detailer.
On It or, a couple new apprentices. You know know. The abilities, of your teams, know. Where they've been what they've done and know their abilities. And then play on that you know, just go after whatever. If like you said if it's a foreman that has now embraced, technology. And they're good at it, maybe put a a bim guy that is new that that guy can now teach them guys some new stuff. Whereas the bim guy is going to be all right on technology, and the foreman is going to help him now you know so now it's not a crutch it's actually like a. Super foreman. Yeah, for sure. For like a better term, yeah i like super foreman, i like it, i'm sure they'd like it too. Oh yeah. So that brings up another kind of interesting. Little rabbit, trail, of, the the culture, and the soft skill, aspect, of, construction. That. It. I think those. Skills traditionally, aren't. You don't think of them, in the construction, right space, not at all you know taking somebody else's, feelings into account or you know how do you have those open dialogues, and those conversations. Do you see that, changing, some as technology, is coming. More readily available, in construction. I see. I don't necessarily, see it changing. And, like, my first day out of college so i out of college i actually started on a on a field crew out on site. And some guy had me, grab him a shovel. And i got the wrong shovel and this dude seriously, threw the shovel at me like, full blown, two hands. Threw a shovel at me, wow um. Which was brutal. But what did he miss or did he hit you. Oh he hit me he took my legs out, i went down to a knee yeah and he was just like bring the right shovel next time. It's ruthless. But uh. What i was going to say about that is i, i think what's happening, is as people that are coming up. Through, um, the same way i did. Are able to like gauge that better, and they're able to. Maybe not gauge it better but like react to it better. Or or take it differently. Um. Whereas before i was just like, i want to quit my job, you know, i'm out of here. Right. Whereas, i think people are getting a lot more. Able to embrace that and then what that does is those people that throw the shovel. Kind of get loudly, put on blasts like nobody wants to work with that guy, you know he threw a shovel at someone. Yeah whereas before it was like yeah man you hit that tech guy with a shovel good job. I don't see that anymore. It's probably still out there but, again i think uh. I think. Um making. Making it known i think the contract, culture and this is i wrote an article about contract, culture i think it's driven bim far enough. That the foremen, understand. Like they have people on their same team you know, they're dealing with these constraints. Dealing with crazy, deadlines. And everything else so it, also, lets them be a little more empathetic. Without. Being made fun of for caring about someone's feelings. You know. Yeah. For sure. Uh, well. Not all, of the the, naysayers. Are, gonna be as. Maybe. You know. As loud and boisterous, in your face about it how do you suss out those uh.
Those Quiet. Kind of lurkers, in the back that, are. Quietly. Touching it. I would stick the dynamic, guys on those guys. Because that's what i that's what happened to me, was, like. There were still these. Problems, happening. Yeah but it wasn't getting communicated, to me well me being the like. Again i'm gonna go back to that tenacious. Word. The tenacious, person, that i am, and like how i solve problems. I obsessed, over what the problem was, and i would find what the problem was and it was that this guy. Didn't tell, me, what that guy told him to tell me you know, so basically, because of that i need the guy that's supposed to tell me something, to tell, me, don't tell the pm to tell me you tell me, you know and i just had to. You have to open that. You have to open that door. Because that's a lot of what i saw was the the pm's. Would really keep the field and bim, divided. That's not how it should be the pms, should definitely, embrace, that connection, get the field. And bim tied together, at the beginning, way before anything's ever built you know. The foreman should be in the shop looking at drawings, anyway get them in there looking at the model. Get them chat and just get them humanized, let them know that hey the bim guy working on this is working his butt off. He's just, new you know he just he needs some help. Like going back to what you said about, technology. And how everybody needs each other. I live by the motto that i i could teach anybody, i could teach my grandma, right now. How to use, pretty much any technology. I'm going to go down there a little bit later and say hey here's dado why don't you find a submittal, for something you know. Just to test my my challenge, but yeah, um. Right yeah. I i believe i could teach anybody, any technology. Ever, and i myself, am a little bit better than like my dad or my grandma you know, at learning the technology.
That's All that i have up on them i'm just i can quickly, vet it out learn it, and then i can teach anybody, quickly you can't do that with welding. I go down to a weld shop you could spend. Two years with me and i'm gonna mess everything up i'll be welding stuff to the walls, and everything, electrocute. Myself burn my finger off, who knows what, yeah, i'd be right there with you i wouldn't want anything that i will do. Look at this blob that i made. What is that. So i think it's really important, like i that's, what i've learned and that's what i strive by is i, it's important for us tech guys to have the patience, with them, like. They definitely have more of what we need than than, we have of what they need you know, so be patient with them go in there, don't just say hey you got to use this tool you got to use dado because that's what we have no. Go in there and be like hey i noticed you're spending, hours looking, for submittals, you know looks frustrating. Check this new tool out, what do you think about this should we look into it you know like, would you be interested, and then keep them people involved, because that's what's gonna. Really help that snowball, start. Yeah, absolutely. Well tell us more about revisto. Uh, so revisto. Is a uh integrated collaboration. Platform, that allows. Everybody, to kind of communicate. In one place, so. As you can see with what i'm saying here today, it's natural, that i found my place somewhere like this. I used rivisto, for three years. And, that was where i really found how little i knew about construction. And i was actually using it to answer to a gc. So we were doing coordination. And he wanted me to resolve, these clashes. And. Like a specific, moment i remember was something about duck me. Which is like it brings duck together, and it's like this big thick, steel. Kind of beam in between, but they can just, like put these things in and then the ducks, are combined, together you know. And the gc was like hey this is hitting every pipe in the hallway, can you like smash that with a hammer or something. Is it like flexible, and i'm like oh yeah sure. It wasn't. It wasn't we definitely had to reroute, that duck like on the fly, in the field and then i had to redraw, it after the field fixed, it. But that was like a wake-up call for me you know i'm sitting here. I'm doing all the coordination, i'm answering, the gc, and everything, in this platform. But my foreman's, not in the platform. You know that, like with ravisto, what could happen and what did end up happening, was basically. Hey. This duck mate's hitting all the pipe, on this. In this corridor, can it be smashed, down. He assigns it to me and then i could just assign it to the foreman and be like what do you think you know. I don't know, i'm, gonna say yes but what do you think and then that's when the foreman's like. What are you doing. You know it's nice, i think, yeah thank you for getting a hold of me but what are you doing, yeah. So nice. Um, that's, again naturally that's why i'm i'm at rivistos. Because i really have that passion, for. Bringing those people together letting people understand, where everybody's coming from and. And what the constraints, of, i mean the bim world is intense, sometimes, there's some contracts, that are just. I mean a lot of contracts, i've seen are like. Impossible, to execute, if you do your very best you get like an a minus, you know, right. I haven't i've seen very little a plus jobs if there's anybody out there with them please, message me i'd love to see them but. Um. I think that's an interest, against it. Yeah, and that what's interesting, about it is i've actually been in the situation, going from engineering. To contracting. To now software, i was actually in, in a situation, where i engineered, a building. Um, i thought it was great i patted myself, on the back i felt great about well three years later. When i went to work for the contractor. This guy was like. Really mad about a drawing that he had, on this building. And as soon as he said the building i was like oh no that's my draw i know that's my drawing i know i did a building here in erie.
When I was an engineer. And so i had him bring the drawing up and sure enough my initials, were on the. Drawing. Who's this guy. Yeah right. So. But to me again that was another wake-up, call that like, man i worked on that for like a year. At an engineering, firm. Like, felt great about myself, but couldn't have been it was worthless, to the field to install, you know. So i think going back to. That discovery, and implementation. Thing it's again, it's really important. To know who's using what for what, because like, that drawing was great for us at the engineering, firm you know, but as far as the contracting. Side and building it it was worthless. So that can really be tied to technology. Like. A fabrication. Workflow, in revisto, is not going to do anything for an engineering, person. Maybe it'll open their eyes to how their. 3d data is being used by contractors. But, um. As far as it's concerned it's just costing the engineer money you know. So, i apply, different software, totally different in different companies, even. Right well i think that communication, aspect is huge too to. See it from the other person's. Point of view not that you have to it changes, what you are doing from your perspective, but it's it's good to have that other, side of the equation. Yeah, and that's a big challenge that i always challenge people is just be open-minded. Just. Open your door to hear what these people have to say you know, if somebody's, messing up and they're not answering, your calls and stuff, they're probably, stressed, out they're probably trying to hit their deadlines. And they're like, that's what was happening to me you know i'm trying to hit my deadlines, for the gc, but we made money installing, pipe. So you could imagine my foreman's like why are you, saying this can be smashed with a hammer. Yeah it's just costing, us money and i'm like well, i wasn't getting yelled at by the gc, anymore by saying that, you know, yeah so i think, always being open-minded, to those, problems, people face is really the. The ultimate, way to, to keep this mindset, moving forward you know. Yeah, for sure, well how do people get a hold of you and find out more about vista. Um, i'm pretty active on linkedin. Um, i can share my email and stuff also here, um, but the best way is linkedin. We're releasing, revisto5. Now which is um. To put it lightly, i guess a, game changer, in my opinion. Um, you're going to be able to like search. Directly, in the model. So i've been really working, on. Um, and i i'm, i'm a sick person i i work like on the stuff like 4am on saturdays, and stuff i just get lost. But i've been dreaming up ways that you know like we can have foreman. Ordering, materials. Directly, from the model, just in time. Because that was the biggest thing that i would run into we'd want to order materials. A year ahead of time, and then we go through coordination, and then it's like oh crap the the pump sizes were changed we got to throw all this away you know. If you do that just in time delivery. Um, which again it goes big into communication, i didn't care about any of that on the bim side i do now. But i didn't when i was doing it like the field can get their stuff whenever they want. Right but in reality, what was happening, was i was printing drawings and they were like oh this is ready to go, they'd order it, go fabricate, it.
And Then uh, we would change it all. And that's all bad. Yeah you know. So, um. Yeah i think uh. I think that's a also a very interesting. Factor, there. To. Keep in mind. Interesting. Well my last question. Is, what does innovation, mean to you. Innovation. I would say the first thing that came to my my gut right there was. Just pushing the envelope. Um. Instead of. Being a stagnant. Naysayer. You know. Go out there. And, if you got a problem, go figure it out, you know go figure out how to fix it be the hero. You know. Um. Now. Again i'm going to go back to, jonathan marsh on this one you got to keep people roped in like i wanted to be the hero. Letting somebody, just, 15, 20 hours, a, day, bury themselves, into doing, something is not healthy, it's not uh. It's not effective, either, so definitely, do it, in a, like a controlled, environment. But, definitely pushing the envelope, looking at hey i'm i'm tired of these flanges, not lining up, let's try a new scanner, let's try. Maybe we need a new software, to run the, points you know, the main thing we always came back to is we needed that. Um, we needed help. With spooling, i mean sometimes you spool ten thousand. Things. So again evolve wasn't around. When we were spooling, um. Evolves. What, four or five years old now. Three or four yeah. Three or four still a little baby. But if i had it i've, used it enough that like. Hangers, you know, making school drawings, having to make changes, on school drawings. Yeah that we had a person, for that we paid somebody. All year. To like move tags on spool drawings. And lay out hangers. Right whereas evolve, just, does it it gets i mean it's not perfect but you're 95, percent, there. And then you can spit your sheets out. So, um, just stuff like that look at the problem, you probably have the tools there if you have revit. I'm telling you you probably have the tools there revit, is, way more than what people think it is it can do so much. It's just people get taught a certain way. I'm with rivisto, i see it all the time that revisto. Is like a. Gc, tool you know revisto, is just for. Controlling. Subcontractors. And their clashes, it's not, i used it for something totally different. I use it as a day-to-day, planner. I'm just i'm kidding, you can though. Yeah well it's the old adage you only use like 10. Of any given, software, yeah, that's a good point yeah exactly. And most of them are that way so when you're doing that discovery. Also always make sure to dip back into the jar of software you already have. You know see if you can find something to use there. Yeah um. And that said, if you can't. You should probably go to the mep, force. Hopefully, in person, in 2021. That's all right, that's our goal. Yeah. Yeah i could see everybody it was one of my favorites. I actually, i missed. We went to san antonio, two years ago for it i missed it so much i went to san antonio, two weeks ago. Because of the mep, force and. Showing me that city and, just the great times i met all new people. And we've essentially. Established. A scooter game you remember the electric scooters. Yeah, yeah and we just had a gang of construction, professionals. On scooters, right i got to see, pictures, and videos, of it because. Oh yeah mvp force i'd never leave the building. Right, for a week, and i'm like oh the sun is too bright, uh. But i i saw people enjoying them. The party of the park is the only time they let me out of the building. Yep but no i remember. It was it's funny you're talking about like that dynamic. Dynamic. And static. Relationship. Well, we got out of i think we did a tequila. Like a margarita. Mixing competition. With wendy, from esub. And we got out and everybody's, like eyeballing, those scooters, but nobody would go up and, and hop on one. Well i'm the dynamic, guy i hopped on the scooter and just scanned them so everybody could start rolling out on them and, nice. Sometimes, you need to be the trendsetter.
You Need that. Yeah, you need somebody, to just be like let's do it if somebody gets hit by a car i'm sorry, there should have been a static, champion, to hold me. Back. Yep. Exactly. Well, awesome, well thanks so much for, for coming on travis it's always fun to talk to you. Yeah. Yeah you too, i definitely appreciate, being on here i like i said i love everything about the podcast, i love what you guys are doing and, i love that evolve, works really well with ravisto. Um. It's gonna be a fun, next few years. Definitely. For. Sure.