hello everyone good afternoon I'm Mariette westermann I'm the vice Chancellor of New York University Abu Dhabi and I'm really delighted to welcome you all to my Round Table this afternoon one to which I've been looking forward to a tremendous amount um my guest today is Her Excellency Sarah or Amiri who as you know is the UAE Minister for advanced technology minister of state and she's also the terrible man of the UAE space agency before we begin our conversation and while people trickle in um let me remind you a little bit about what a Roundtable is about we started this program over a year ago now to have regular conversations with leaders of sectors leaders of the different Industries leaders of government agencies Ministries embassies and of course various Industries businesses that interest us and non-profit organizations as well and we have these conversations to open up to University students we also have faculty joining us I could see we have faculty here today and alumni to to to really ask these leaders how it is that they came to be in the positions that they are how they go about leading these institutions and think about that how they work to promote the effectiveness of their organizations their Industries or also the diversity and Equity within them and so we've talked with Museum directors already this year we've spoken with a business leader from the Lulu group last just even last week we last year we spoke with banking Executives we spoke with ambassadors we spoke with Venture capitalists all sorts of people philanthropists and it's always a really rich conversation you are welcome to put questions and comments in the Q a box we will get to them we will talk with you through the um through the afternoon we will talk uh Her Excellency arrival speak for about 45 minutes or so and then begin to open up the questions but if you have questions sooner don't hold back put them in we tend to just bring them in as we have this conversation let me first introduce Our Guest today and I hope that she will appear on the screen there she is now uh and uh as I said her name is Sarah Al Amiri the UAE minister of State for advanced technology now in her role in this important Ministry she empowers the development and the adoption of the technologies that are propelling the force Industrial Revolution also here across the Emirates you know how much interest there is in artificial intelligence in its many dimensions and a very significant portfolio of you know portion of her portfolio I should say entails promoting research and development in the advanced Science and Technology sector and the Very fact that that is her role often brings us Sarah in important conversations and partnership and potential partnership with your ministry as chairwoman of the space agency she is also responsible for overseeing its mandate to guide the space sector in the country and ensuring that it makes the vigorous contribution that already does to the National economy to the knowledge economy transformation and to the sustainable development of the United Arab Emirates space has long been a special passion for her she built and led the UAE science team for the Mars probe that is an inspiration to all of us in the UAE and so many around the world and especially so many young scientists and Engineers around the world herxency is also the chairwoman of the Emirates scientists Council the chairman of the fourth Industrial Revolution Council and also of the Dubai future Academy Board of Trustees previously she was the head of r d at Muhammad bin Rashid Space Center where she was involved with important satellite development programs such as Dubai set 1 Dubai set 2 and the establishment of the Khalifa set program in 2015 the world economic Forum honored Her Excellency as one of its 50 young scientists for her contributions to science Technology and Engineering and those contributions I want to say have only magnified and Amplified and multiplied since then I am very happy to say that education holds a very special place in her heart and in her work she herself holds bachelor's and master's degrees in computer engineering from the American University in of Sharjah are important fellow American institution here and she did us a great honor last May with her incredibly meaningful commencement address to our brave and resilient class of 2021 I still Sarah get comments about that so here we go I want to say welcome to you very much to Our Round Table thank you Mariette it's actually a privilege to be here with you today wonderful and before we launch into some of the questions that we want to discuss with you of course in this very special week I want to wish you the warmest congratulations and good wishes on the 50th anniversary of the founding of the United Arab Emirates elfma Brook really a moment absolutely so let's start let's store questions about your role when our students see influential leaders and effective leaders like yourself it's often very hard to imagine how you got started how you arrived there could you tell us how you began your career journey and how it evolved so I started working in 2009 I think you you very elaborately talk about key Milestones but I started working as a software developer within a know-how transfer program to build capabilities for engineers in designing and developing satellites the earliest program that I worked on was the bicep one the spacecraft was done in terms of design I was meant to develop be part of the team that was developing The Ground Control software for Dubai set 2 and therefore I worked initially during the launch of by Saturn on operating the spacecraft to better understand the interface that the team needs to go through to be able to command spacecrafts from the ground monitor progress better understand the usability of it prior to working on its design and just continued on that path in parallel I was really interested I love being an engineer and designing systems and designing software and understanding how it integrates well with Hardware but at the same time I was really interested with the overarching aspect of why the Muhammad Russia Space Center was even established and that was to build capabilities and know-how and I for some reason I was really into intrigued about knowledge systems and how do you build experience and how do you teach people to do things how do you establish sectors that never were established before what is the role of research and development in enabling all of that and then how do you design programs around capability and capacity development and build Partnerships especially in the space sector where you need to build Partnerships internationally to be able to gain the necessary experience and slowly I started transitioning from being an engineer doing software design to someone who works with regards to policy design and program design at the same time and I think that prepared me at least personally it was something I was really interested in um prepared me for it for the role that I'm currently doing which sort of is a macro version of what I was doing when I was heading up research and development in the Space Center you what a wonderful trajectory you just described and I want to click on that uh on that expertise and your love of actually software engineering and I I think it's often easy forgotten that even the greatest leaders at some point were Deep In The Weeds The Passion of certain fields uh today I do very little art history for example but it still drove me to be curious and to get into the academy so I think it's very parallel when even before you went to University when did you know you were interested in science and wanted to really pursue science as a student I really enjoyed math um um and I enjoyed not science per se but the experiments that ran in science so the practicality of it but just the structured way that math was broken down um was something that just spoke to my mind I was really passionate about it and I was lucky to have a programming platform and being able to program at a very young age in school it was very basic uh but at the same time it gave me a certain exposure in into uh programming and computers and what computers can do what you can tell computers what to do and just merging those two together as I continued my education in school towards High School it was very evident that the logic that I loved in math existed in in algorithms and and the logic that that allows computers to perform things and allows you to design computers and that sort of was an amalgamation between the two when did I want to be a computer engineer I recall writing an essay in the fifth grade of what you want to be when you grow up and that's when I put down computer engineering I didn't know the full gist of it but I knew that it had something to do with either building computers or telling computers what to do which sounded interesting that's quite early that's very impressive and it's also impressive that the school supported your Ambitions and your hopes you clearly were inspired there and you know we often talk about women in science and engineering and how it's so important to start that early on and clearly that was possible for you in the in the school which is a wonderful thing looking back on your University experience how do you think that shapes you or shape where you are was it all about the primarily about engineering or were there other aspects about University life that you think prepared you for this merger of policy leadership and and and science I think you I I strongly believe that University life isn't about the courses that you take I would say that was 20 to 30 percent of of what I've learned um in University especially if you talk about my core engineering courses um that gave me sort of the context by which I could work but the character building aspect was was deeply embedded in relationships deeply embedded in electives that I took um in conversations that I held in discussions that I was part of um and and largely that was part of my growth Journey as a person um and um allowed me to better explore what I liked what I disliked what I was passionate about where the opportunities existed just by being within within campus and having that sort of microbiome of ideas and um discoveries and and I think a breadth of of an allowance of making mistakes um and learning from them uh just the overall experience was something that That Built Me quite differently than what I was as a graduate from high school the the four years and a half that I was in in college were I would say instrumental to my personality today and what I've learned and how I think about things and how I've experienced things yes I think Aus does a marvelous job of that as well and you're right courses are important but are only a piece of what you learn and it's the kind of living and working together that is so important it's really beautiful how you said that and I think along the way I imagined you encountered various mentors maybe also later or earlier in life than the university we spend a lot of time talking and thinking about mentorship and University is there a mentor or person you would say had a significant impact on your journey I I would say quite a few people um at least I approach mentorship less formally um than what people are used to so I'm from the school of thought that I learned from everyone around me um and that everyone has a piece to teach other people and therefore I think I've I've I've learned from so many people in my life and observed what they're doing and listened to what their perspective is whether or not I I agreed or disagreed with it um and perhaps that's deeply stemmed from being able to grow up at an environment that was truly International so I grew up in an international school with people from so many different backgrounds so many different perspectives and that's sort of an openness that yes we all think differently there's no true right or wrong or black and white um and open it being open to understanding others and in their journey is important um you want me to mention a name on the name you could you prescribed the person the depends on what you're comfortable doing yeah and yeah so so generally speaking I've so growing up and he spoke about stem and this is something why I think having it wasn't a role model for me per se I didn't say that this person was my role model but it's something that I grew up seeing so I had family I was at a time where I wrote that essay in the fifth grade saying that I would become a computer engineer I had siblings two of my sisters studying medicine and Engineering I had family members who were women who were in training for either medicine or fields that are related to Stem and for me in retrospect that normalized fields of stem for women for me without them knowing without even me realizing that but it just gave me a platform of opportunity and during my work in terms of the policy field I would say especially during my my time at the on the Emirates Mars mission a very prominent person that I learned so much from and continue to do today is the program the the program director of the aramitz Mars mission Omron um very he has an interesting way of putting together technical detail details and he discuss technology and how it impacts for example public policy or politics in another country in it and it's it was an interesting way to see how things linked up together what was the Common Thread what was the underlying perspective and it's it's it was a lot of these conversations I think built me as a person in terms of understanding that understanding truly how interconnected things were and being able to question things and look at it from different angles and and so on so that that's something that I continue to learn from him um again there's many people I don't want to continue naming names but there's many people that have provided instances where uh that has impacted me personally and uh well and I think moving forward we'll continue to do so how do you describe your answer to this question which I have asked all the 15 people or so who've been on this around this table before is is innovative I would say in that you you distinguish role models from mentors they can be both of course but there there are different different possibilities have to be open to you to be able to see to see that that you can do things and uh I love the fact that you point to women in your family who are we often don't think of them as mentors but of course they also are people in Monsoon family and then indeed in professional settings in educational settings there will be others and at different times of one's life other mentors come in and they're needed and you never lose the the value of mentorship you also of course become a mentor which is an interesting idea as well can you say a little bit about your own mentoring Practice What You Do to Mentor others who look up to you um so I work very closely I'll speak to my team so I work very closely with my team we have an an open work environment where dialogue is two ways and that's I think is fundamental to any mentorship be it formal or otherwise or any form of relationship that's built um uh that encourages joins personal growth and that's how I look at mentorship it's not only about some you're mentoring somebody it's it's a joint sort of um effort uh and growth and I I had the pleasure of working with one of your own at NYU abdabino during the national mentorship mentorship program National professionals development program um and that has been I've learned from her as much as she's probably learned from me and it's for me it's about dialogue it's about being open to being vulnerable that's usually hard and it's a two-way stream in terms of being open talking about your doubts talking about potential opportunities even talking about things that you know sound completely off or completely wrong and being able to reflect on it and about and have somebody to bounce ideas off of um I truly believe that our growth as individuals is with the growth of everyone around you otherwise you're not really growing you're really stagnating and that's that's generally the way that I approach it and like I said I I look at it as a two-way journey I continue to learn from people you've you've referenced The Importance of Being able to make mistakes and not you know not think that that's somehow a failure mistakes are not always a failure it's what you do with them I think and then also saying vulnerability sharing both as a mentor and a mentee uh that's indeed a wonderful way of describing the space that has to be opened if it's going to be productive thank you very much for that now sir you already talked a little bit about the gender um component to your being able to see yourself as a fifth grade girl becoming a scientist potentially it obviously didn't phase you we know of course that to this day the majority of the world's scientists and Engineers are men the percentage of women in stem Fields is certainly growing and that's a good thing but the imbalance remains pretty pronounced what has it been like for you as a woman to become a leader in the stem disciplines and are there ways in which you can see promoting the success of of others to to gain greater gender parity and balance so I I get asked some forms of this question quite a lot and it enabled me to retrospectively think about it because for me like I said growing up it wasn't an issue nor was it during my work life it doesn't mean that it there were hindrances or weren't it was just something that I was deaf to and blind to personally and perhaps it was an intrinsic choice that not blindly but just removed all of the noise that's associated to inhibiting growth and that's what I continue to do um personally on so many different levels it's not only about being a woman or otherwise but with regards to continuing enabling women I think one of the enabling gender parity especially in stem because it's very important it's very important to do it across the board but in stem impacts things that impact our daily lives be the outcomes of research the adoption of Technology the development technology scientific outcomes and so on I I truly believe that it impacts our life and the dialogue needs to always start with the acknowledgment that we all have inherent biases and it's not because we we want to be biased against one gender versus another but it's what we've picked up growing up it's what's considered at some point a norm when today retrospectively thinking is not a norm so acknowledging that there is an inherent bias and it's it's not always an intentional one intentional ones are easy to remove through policies and so on inherent biases requires an acknowledgment that it's there and it allows you to retrospectively question some of the decisions even when it comes to hiring and so on if you know that you have inherent bias you would go back and think to yourself okay so did I hire this person over that one because of some bias that I've had some pre-perceptions some stereotype and it's enabling these conversations that you're able to to to make this happen in the uae's perspective for stem I think we have a leaky pipeline regardless of gender and that's that's something that we've had this conversation so many times with regards to the outcome it's just not a lot of people continue on in the stem career um the challenges of women are are sometimes different but in the context of the UAE we found that the challenges for both women and men were sort of similar so to challenges of the ecosystem and addressing those are very important building institutions that that then intrinsically become blind during the hiring process and having a system of checks and balances As you move forward with regards to people moving forward in their careers and advancing in their careers and ensuring that there is a form within institutions because you need to institutionalize there's a form of checks and balances that asks okay why did this person not move ahead um is it because of biases that exist within the organization or is it truly due to capability at the end of the day no woman and I'll speak to myself I I don't want to ever go into a position because somebody had a quota uh of filling this position due to diversity or something or or something close to that and therefore putting in a system that allows capabilities to shine competitiveness to be fair and allowing us to acknowledge and revisit this because at the end of the day it's human nature to create pre-perceptions and um and form forms of perspectives but it's always good to revisit those and better understand them so um I still don't have a formula for success but that's what I what I use in terms of understanding how to ensure in public policy internationally uh that we are continuously addressing gender parity in in stem yeah it's wonderful to hear you say that because I agree with you I you know you were obviously very much encouraged and successful I was similarly lucky you know people just thought that I could do these things and Lead things and not in science but still at a time that maybe not as many women would have had the opportunities I got and it's easy then to forget that it's not so easy for everyone else and clearly your leadership in always being aware that these little biases slip in and have big outcomes often negative outcomes is so important let us talk a little bit about the sector that really you are so closely identified with that of space exploration and The Innovation associated with it in the UAE so as you know I was a really I don't want to say space nerd because I think it's beautiful but I was as a child as you know very interested in astronomy and space science and I am to this day and I've always been amazed at the fact that governments invest so much and are willing to invest in space exploration and even travel when it's really resource intensive and there are lots of needs to be served on our very planet and so I was wondering if you would speak a little bit about what you think the reasons are that governments invest so much in space one it's pure human curiosity we want to know more we have a lot of unanswered questions and we want to know more um another one would be the Ripple effects that it has on on society we do know the Space Race started for political reasons and I'll put that out there it started for political reasons but political will always needs to be there but from going into it expiration is very important the impact and outcome the indirect impact that's very hard to quantify and I think we all lived it here in the UAE of impact technology development in fact scientific understanding impact and fundamental research that we all know and appreciate needs to remain undirected and due to the beauty of it being undirected you don't really know what the outcomes are you know the outcomes are going to be are going to be several fold higher from past experience from from other scientific discoveries and that's the reason why countries continue to invest in space it's an aspirational area it provides you answers to questions that you didn't know that you needed to ask um but are necessary to our to our joint human understanding and our joint human journey of Discovery yes there are priorities and and aspects that need to be fixed here on Earth uh but we need not forget that a lot of those require space Technologies we do whether we know it or not on our daily basis on a daily basis we all have access to a form of space technology be it past space technology or current space technology and it's part of what makes us a an interconnected civilization today and I will be part of of what continues to interconnect us as Humanity across the globe and therefore in public policy sphere striking the light balance when it comes to spending ensuring that it's sustainable so for example for us in the UAE sustainability means that it needs to also be backed up by the private sector so you need to create business in the private sector because that ensures that development has continued to be in place and a lot of countries are taking that path forward and another ask for divides is the aspirational aspect um in February I just never realized that was going to be the impact of this Mission just the number of people that were involved the impact it's had positively on the UAE as a whole it legitimized that we we are a nation that are serious about science and technology it's no longer a something that you declare it's and this is comments that I've gotten across the globe it's nobody has gone and done a first mission to explore another planet and ensuring that that mission provided new scientific data that's already just risky from the from the get-go but the fact that the UAE didn't means that we are serious when we talk about developing our Science and Technology capability we're serious about it and it's enabled us to have a lot of conversations and start rethinking how you want to further establish your different sectors and at Marietta I think you said it I'm very passionate about space so I'm I'm speaking to you here probably the most biased person about the space sector but I've seen I've palpably seen uh the impact of it and if I if I put space aside I've seen it in my portfolio of advanced technology within the ministry of industry and advanced technology and that's about direct economic impact and it's it's helped and aided quite a lot in advancing quite a few things that are that are very important for the sustainability of our economy and the sustainability of so many different sectors within our economy and also within our way of living well I think this is a wonderful comprehensive answer and of course I'm completely on board for the Curiosity driven and aspirational aspect of this the fact that the UAE I think fifth country to go to Mars and one and straight just past the moon just went straight to that much more difficult orbital uh orbital Journey then that was successful those were some tense moments I imagine let me just ask you about that moment because we all witnessed it of course either at the Muhammad in Russia's Space Center or on rtps um what was that like how nervous were you and how did you manage your nerves I was extremely nervous um it's just it's six six years in a bit of work seven years for me at the time um resting on 20 minutes it's not easy it's not easy to face and then doing it publicly live across the world um during a time where two of the largest nations were right behind you in terms of arriving to Mars so it was a very it was the Mars month where China was supposed to arrive the U.S was supposed to arrive after that and it's just I I don't recall much of that day um but I recall the successful arrival arrival and then the moment after that where I recall speaking maybe the only other person that understands a lot of the feelings that went through is Omron and I remember speaking to him and said I just felt like somebody like I've been carrying an entire weight and it's been lifted in a moment off my shoulders um and it's just it was it's very hard uh it's very hard to describe people at work in the space I can understand the roller coaster of emotions because there's so many moments that rests on it's either successful or not regardless of what you did and it's very hard to go to go through these moments where you know that regardless of how hard you worked of how you've ensured that you've checked every single box and understood everything that could possibly go wrong and designed around it you have absolutely no control about the outcome it was a massive lesson to learn over the course of the last um Seven Years 2013 seven years and it was much different than any of the experience that I've had before that in the space sector well it's remarkable how you carried it off and although I agree with you that in the end that final orbital moment there is a lot there could be a little speck of dust who knows but I still think you did your homework extremely well and built that team so I I think it's not entirely a coincidence that it came off so well and you I mean there were just tears of joy around the country in all our living rooms as we saw this go well and of course so much wrote on it in part because of that large financial and National hope investment we have some great questions along these lines in the in from the audience here and you're welcome to keep putting questions in Christopher asks you know he's thanked you for being here and says is the UAE planning to play across the entire space industry value chain so from these simple things that we've all learned to do like making the right lab gloves hair nets all hair nets all the way to making space specific chips or is there a part of that value chain that the nation intends to focus on are there some areas definitely not the whole value chain it makes no sense for the UAE coming in with just 12 13 years of space development experience 24 years of working in the space sector as a whole uh to develop everything A to Z uh not a lot of countries have achieved that actually globally um and therefore yes there are parts of the value chain that we're looking at and we're looking at it from the capability and capacity development perspective and second from a um perspective of where we can enter into in this space in this space in the space economy so private company Focus so in terms of Earth observations so Imaging Earth be it visible or using different wavelengths the area to enter into this due to a large increase of number of satellites that are currently around orbit and due to a relatively large reduction in cost of production and also cost to Launch you have a lot of data about space so companies that are established in analysis and providing products and services and knowledge and information from the back of utilizing a lot of satellites and ground-based systems for Urban Development for climate change for so many different for farming and better farming practices uh there is a there there is an entry point that the UAE can enter into so that's one area in terms of the business aspects of things the second one is communication satellite are going to change so the same way that we see the lower parts of Earth orbit being utilized for for images um we're going to see satellites that are usually considered relatively very expensive going down to low earth orbit with these Mega constellations that we're seeing companies invest in and what that means is that our Communications methodology is going to change the connection between satellite Communications and ground-based uh Communications is going to change significantly and that would be an area to invest in both the from a development perspective and also from a utilization perspective so I spoke about what are you going to use and that's the perspective that we've looked at so at the end of the day space sector in the UA will be sustainable there's demand for it so the two aspects that I just spoke about is demand now going back then what is the development arm that's going to go there so there's going to be a focus on Space systems engineering which is very important and then capabilities that go on top of that so the onboard computer basically the brain of the spacecraft is very important uh and how you design it and design the software there optimizing ground-based systems so that you can lower cost uh investing in in facilities here in testing facilities so that it becomes a joint resource that's the infrastructure investment that needs to go into place um and so on and so we we select the areas and Technologies um that go into spacecraft based on what gives those spacecrafts an edge either in the earth observation Market or in the um in the um um Communications market then comes the overarching so expiration you always use expiration missions for scientific purposes so curiosity and answering scientific questions and for Expediting um development so you get a very tough Mission and you're able to Rally uh capabilities around that so you use exploration missions and hence our new mission to build those capabilities so that way you ensure that you have a comprehensive and robust uh space economy within the country yeah that's a very interesting interaction and I've always been fascinated that and our students are very interested in the kind of research that can be done at the International Space Station or in any of these missions that you've described uh and in fact they even participated with some ATT students and with the space agency in sending the research project to the ISS um what what is it um like can you help us understand how it is that research in space in those kinds of environments yields different uh results from what you might get on Earth what is the upside of doing these things in space so most of the results that happen within um the International Space Station utilize microgravity so it's addressing different research areas but introducing a different environment which is the space environment so those are experiments that are conducted within the International Space Station or or within space itself sorry within um Earth orbit itself then comes the aspects of what else could we do with regards to expiration if it's not sending an experiment up to utilize microgravity or the space environment what it is that we do we need to understand um why is our planet different than the other planets in our solar system why does it carry life uh what is Rick what are the fundamental building blocks of Life as We Know It um how do planets evolve with time uh what exists out there um other than our planet and it's just a general understanding on on the on the Dynamics of planets on solar systems on galaxies and sometimes you can do it by earth-based systems radio telescopes and normal telescopes sometimes you sell telescopes towards around Earth and and do it there or sometimes you need to send a spacecraft if it's feasible to the planet to be able to study it in depth um and it's it's you can think of it as the resolution of your microscope and how deep you can go into understanding a particle and it's the same thing with space the the the closer you are to it so the better your lens system is the more you send there the better you understand about the system itself um and because it's undirected and because a lot of it is based on theories you don't really know until you go there and actually that's one of the challenges of our upcoming Mission and it's because asteroids haven't been mapped in person like close um at all maybe we've visited less than 20 asteroids um and it's just it's a right now with the team it's really difficult to sort of not you have grainy images of it you know that it exists you understand their orbits and so on but you really don't know until you get there if you can land on it because there could be a boulder or something um in place and those are interesting discoveries that you need to do to be able to better understand um a plethora of questions about planets and in our solar system in our galaxy and our universe wonderful answer and you know from a Humanities perspective I always quote this wonderful writers or a Neil Thurston who said you've got to go there to know there and this is true for space as much as it is for our own Planet you know since you raised a question of the Venus asteroid belt Mission I want to relay a question here from Dave Russell who is the head of physics um and Dave would like to know if you could tell us a little bit more about this recently announced Mission especially some of the science goals and plans for instruments because actually um as I may have mentioned I mean I've told you this yet we are really much hoping to create a PhD in astrophysics and space science really bringing them together and so it might even affect our academic strategy to know a little bit more if you can say it at this point about some of the science goals are so we're currently narrowing it down uh we should finish the mission concept that will have a clear science questions our objectives um the various platforms and and uh um instruments that will go on board um by hopefully the first quarter of next year so I don't want to talk about anything because we might cut it out and people will be disappointed so if you're if you're directing policy then I would say let's wait um until next year once we we've narrowed everything down understood the risks that are associated with it understood what's the realm of possibility of building the spacecraft and building the instruments this is a very good answer indeed and as as I would say in media stay tuned and watch this space of many of our scientists being would be quite willing to also you know comment once the plans are there and and see how they can help maybe uh translate a strong world but sort of engage with the science and the data that will be coming out of it it's really very exciting here's another question from the field that relates to all these questions it's it's very interesting that you are both minister of State for advanced technology and chair of the UAE space agency and um they have slightly different roles of course in the society and government how do you help both of them work together sometimes in parallel sometimes coming together for Mutual benefit it it would depend on the program and the overall objective in terms of when are things aligned and when they're not um it's not not because not influenced by me but space has been identified as one of the industries that that are uh that have a potential of growing within the country just by the environment and what I described earlier on and um I guess it's based on objectives the two organizations function differently and they function with different objectives that they need to deliver to the UAE government um but when there is an area that is of mutual interest we would um transfer it on between teams um I think we have a today at least the way we operate within the ministry is a good understanding of um who plays what role when uh sort of situation and if if a portfolio is handled by an entity we trust that entity in terms of delivering towards it so I don't have a clear-cut answer but we we take it based on a program by program perspective to see where it's the right place to sit we wouldn't perhaps be fair to say I can understand that there are all these different answers depending on what a particular project at hand is but would it be fair to say that the space agency is indeed more focused on these National missions in space and what happens here in the data that come back and get processed and so forth whereas in your role promoting the development of Defense technology you're literally more on the ground in the UAE working more with companies stimulating those interactions So within the space agency we do two things we both capability and capacity in the space sector so it's across the board from universities to private sector businesses to those individuals that want to start their businesses and what you're creating is opportunities and risk offset so space exploration is risky therefore it's an Endeavor that the space agency does space offset risk offset is when we provide different programs to um to businesses so that they're able to build Heritage while they're developing along the way so these are the two mechanisms that we operate in within the space agency now in the perspective of the ministry what we focus on is with regards to infusing technology across and making technology a tool across existing industry to increase competitiveness and efficiencies and establish new sectors and ensure that there's a right business environment to establish those new sectors and Aid development overall from a policy regulatory environment and also from an incentives uh perspective so that's mostly focus on industry and then we have the research and development portfolio as you know Mariette with the establishments of the research and development Council of the UAE headed up by his highness and the oh providing that oversight of the entire research and development spectrum and ensuring that it's it's it continues to support societal development continues to support social developments and continues to support uh technological advancements as well as industrial and economic development and that's that's a very good clarification and I wanted to ask you in particular about this exciting partnership that you've engaged in uh on behalf of the space agency with the ministry of climate change and the environment uh launched at Expo Space Week at Expo you've been super busy um where and competition was announced to generate ideas for how we would use data gathered from outer space to create services that could support environmental practices maybe Agricultural and food security funds I found that a very inspiring idea because normally when I think about other countries that have pursued their space programs and what they do with it it's sort of a little bit internal it tends to be focused on the scientists who are already there this was just an open call in in you know inviting citizens residents people who can who think about these things to come forward with ideas what kind of proposals are you hoping to see um practical Solutions I'd like to say and the reason for that is this program I spoke about demand creation this program fits in in creating demand for space products and services and therefore ensuring that there is a practical solution that demonstrates um how you can use space technology to address some of these challenges and more importantly how you can in the in the area of for example food development food production how can you increase production while utilizing the thus resources which then goes on benefits the environment so it's a two-fold approach in terms of what we're looking for one we're starting to create a business model around space and why space is important for other sectors and how people could benefit from it and at the same time giving people a taste of what they can do without needing to own their own spacecrafts because the data is available outside so that's a capability development aspect so there's demands capability development and then hopefully through seeing what we get we're able to expand on capacities and we're able to cover the the three different aspects of the space agency works on uh using this program and hopefully with more programs to come that tackle all of these different challenges and create opportunities it'll be very interesting to see what comes out of it um and there's another question here about that intersection between the economy and the work of the space agency and the ministry so here's an Mio Abu Dhabi Alum Muhammad who who works with a UAE based space company working on the niche field of space agriculture with regular ample support from the Muhammad in Russia's Space Center and the UAE space agency among other entities and he says we're constantly looking to work with local government entities or other entities to enable our work so he wanted to ask what are the ways that the ministry of advanced technology engages in products with companies and how can he and his entity go about getting involved what are some of the pathways to connect with your ministry so I would actually direct them to the Space Agency because they work very closely with space companies and in ensuring that they um find the necessary business um opportunity and to be able to elevate their platform that's what the team there is currently doing what the ministry is doing is ensuring that there is a competitive the competitiveness aspect of the space sectors there challenges that are within the ecosystem are are addressed but if it's a space-specific company the space agency should be able to support um in expanding business and in providing information to people with regards to what these products and services could be um and inevitably marketing for these companies as well so much of this is so new because of course the privatization of the space industry has really gone forward a lot in this Century so I imagine that you must be interacting also with the law and the whole regulatory framework to be developed is that a big part of what has to occupy you as you think about these portfolios you have yes and regularly comes with space has also International accountability but really International accountability that's not really demarcated in any way so a lot of it is open to interpretation we do have a space law in place before putting the bylaws we're also re-reviewing a lot of our policies and laws that are to ensure two things one you Ensure you ensure the the regulatory environment ensuring that there is no sort of negative implication from the utilization of space and at the same time you need to look at it from the ease of doing business perspective and ensuring that you're not prohibiting you're avoiding problems from happening by prohibiting people to enter into the space sector so that's what we always have in mind and I think we do that also within the industry advanced technology it is continuously saying that one is this policy working currently is this law working currently does it need to be Revisited um does it enable business and at the same time provide the necessary support for the overall industry and so on so there's several questions that myself and the team continuously ask ourselves as we continue working in the field of regulations and public policy uh to ensure that it doesn't become something that's set in stone I don't believe even with laws and even with policy I don't believe they're set in stone I believe they're they're mechanisms to govern that are set at a period of time with with the knowledge of that period of time and sometimes yes it reflects very well down the line and sometimes it may not reflect well down the line and I think the governance at least I'm grateful for the governance framework that we have in the UAE that allows us to revisit re-look at it you've seen a lot yesterday an announcement of the the biggest legislative overhaul in the history of the country yes but it was tough work on a lot of people but it was necessary to do and it was it was necessary to go through there was nothing wrong with it and and I thought last time I really loved the process that we went through to be able to get this and it's a lot of these questions um and I see I see my counterparts around the world sometimes struggling from not having that agility in governance uh that it's sometimes prohibitive to development so I'm grateful at least to be to be in a position working within a government that allows for agility and allows for these questions to be asked and I've sometimes gone and said that this is the best solution that we have today and I know because of the unknowns that there some things might change but we need to to go ahead with it and and got on the green light on that with that full knowledge of of uh this is what we need and I think if we go back to the covert experience this is what helped us it's being able to make decisions knowing that you don't have all the information and knowing that you have an ability to revisit them but a decision needs to be made so just retrospectively I think that's what I've appreciated a lot over the course of the last 18 months I think we all have the pandemic response has been amazing and what you're speaking to I think is the value of being a young country but not every young country gets that right and so the active work to revisit these laws from the country has evolved and it's become so infinitely more open to the world in so many different dimensions we are at we are part of that is indeed very encouraging and heartening you know let's ask you a little bit about careers and career preparation and the space and Technology sector I know there are some questions here also about leadership that we will get to to start at a high level from your perspective what types of skills attributes mindsets are most needed for the future of the space industry today I would say everything I'm not I'm not one to sort of narrow it to one area the reason I say everything is because you're focusing on business so marketing is important entrepreneurship is important risk taking I would say is the common thread that is is necessary across the board in the space sector being able to take on risks and mitigate them and create opportunities out of them is very important in the space sector overall but in terms of skills I would say it's across the board and sometimes it's not even deep engineering or scientific skills that are necessary for the business to move ahead yeah I think quite a few of our students are very aware of the opportunities in space private and governmental as well as advanced technology what advice would you have them for our students who would like to prepare to start careers in the industry what are some do's and don'ts you think especially what are some dues dues is a be open to experiencing things especially very early on and work in an especially if you're in in technology and want to work in the design ensure that you're working institution that actually does design of Technologies and developments and sometimes it could be within the UAE sometimes it could be outside so I personally believe the first five years of anyone's career is about being a sponge and just absorbing a lot of experiences and a lot of know-how and a lot of mechanisms to do things across a path forward depending on where the person wants to head and I do believe the industry I've been lucky to work in government but a government that functions as industry in terms of design development but um if that was not the opportunity that I had I would go into the private sector um and and work in an area that built on the area that I was really passionate about which was design and development but take on opportunities I've done it for so many years and I continue to do it even if it's even if it's an area that I have maybe relatively very low experience in like building a science team to go to Mars uh but it's been such immense learning Journeys and very humbling in the process and openness to experience into what you didn't already know in those first years is so important I also think early on in our conversation Sarah you talked about you know solving all these software problems and really putting in the time and the work one doesn't just become a manager or supervisor you really have to sort of know your onions whatever that is in whatever field and I think that's very true for this set of disciplines as well and of course not everyone in the space industry has to be a scientist I think that's very important as well which you just just indicated however we are starting to prepare um students for careers through a graduate programs so we are really thinking about how to prepare also our graduate students so these are the the postgraduates and Professor Andrea Macho who's director of our Center for uh Astro particle and planetary physics is asking on behalf of our students how do you see the need for graduate students so some more advanced and indeed specialized students to to be prepared to enter the space science sector in the UAE what are you looking at the major UAE is going to need in that regard okay so the major area since we have a mission launching to the asteroid battle in 2028 it's that kind of science so the science that's associated with the origins of planets and Planet formations and what exists within the asteroid belt and why it exists there where did it come from um so that's an area of science that is very important the area of resources and understanding the resources that are available in Space Systems is important um the Emirates Mars mission and and the area of science that it provides with regards planetary to planetary atmospheres and Mars atmosphere also will continue down the line that timeline is about three to four years of operation that's left on it that's its current Mission plus extended Mission we are being very nice in the spacecraft so we're trying to extend it over its design lifetime so the operations is something that we're very considerate about to ensure that the spacecraft lives beyond its four years design Lifetime and we've seen that happen to a lot of spacecrafts and that will give a good few years of of data around Mars so that's currently what's on the table with regards to expiration and sustained exploration about our space but if you would like to have a conversation I can put you in contact with the team at the space agency to see how we can work together on building um uh building priorities and seeing where they take us from there wonderful well Andrea that's a great offer to you and solar system studies clearly we're hearing are going to be much on the mind of this space agency and the ministry so I think that's wonderful thinking about again that privatization of the Space Race I never thought I'd see it in my lifetime I thought these were big government projects I'm sort of a child of the NASA era you could say and the political era the Sputnik and NASA era as you you put it in opposite things have been transformed by companies like SpaceX and many others entering this sector if you think about the balance it the size of the industry the space industry in the UAE as far as you can see it can you can you give us a sense of how much of it is going to be government driven and supporters and what percentage or what shape of it is going to be more private I think it would help our students think about how to prepare to participate meaningfully so just to demystify yes there is a private sector in space but if you go back I'm talking internationally in countries that have well-established Space Industries a lot of the contracts are by government and the reason for that is it's its biggest customer of the space sector you do see space tourism and so on coming on but um the biggest customer of the space sector is usually government its role is to offset risk and take on very risky programs and projects and be able to build those capabilities that then spill over on different sectors uh companies once they get a foot up are then able to go and develop their their their businesses by business to business relationships and that's why we're also focusing on demand creation because you're not going to sustain and I think a lot of countries have realized that including countries that have massive budgets in space that they're not going to sustain spending and and addressing all the areas of space that they wish to tackle by just having a government-to-business relationship there needs to be a business to business relationship that continues to be fostered in a cost-effective manner so that's what we're capitalizing on in terms of percentage it's hard to say because it would depend on how large um the the industry grows within the UAE to better understand what the incentives are it will take us about five years I would say to better understand who's going to enter into the space sector and as you know apart from the usual big players that you all know about there's very few small companies operating in the space sector in the UAE and you need to build enough critical mass to be able to understand how the spending needs to be and how it needs to be directed so as we continue to Foster those capabilities and encourage more people to enter into the sector and increase and I've been saying this a lot but I really believe the space sector is a demand-driven one if people see the benefit of it only then will it become something that is above and beyond just having an exploration program um and that's an area that we are currently working on to then go and be able to say that this is the right mix in terms of government spending versus private sector spending I think this is an incredibly valuable clarification you've made for our community here and for anyone there's often this thought that for instance the United States that in the 50s 60s 70s there was this Heyday of Science and all this entrepreneurial work it was driven by government spending NASA NSF NIH without those big grants these things can't get off the ground at the scale that you need so that's where the percentages are hard to say as you say but it isn't without that commitment of a country whether it's through the regulatory framework that makes it easi
2022-11-11