The Future of Energy & Grid Innovation Technologies

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good morning everybody my name is Josh Wong I'm  the general manager for good orchestration at   General Electric and I'm thrilled to be here today  to talk about Innovation at the GE news desk in   distributec 2023 in San Diego sunny California and  I'm just as thrilled here to be joined by Colin   today to talk about how we have been innovating  the energy sector as General Electric so Colin   why don't you introduce yourself thank you very  much Josh again good morning good afternoon good   evening to all I'm Colin Paris I'm the senior  vice president and chief technology officer   for G digital welcome to distributec so Colin  it's an exciting time to be here now with with   everything that's going on around energy crisis  energy transition Innovation is really the key to   unlock value in this changing ever-changing sector  so you have been focused on Innovation right from   the get-go at GE and you are really looking  at past present and of course the future so   where are you investing your time these days  and why and what are three things that interest   you the most as you think about the term grid  orchestration and where it's heading Josh I love   the way you frame that around Innovation you know  GE has had that in its Heritage even going back to   the days of Thomas Edison so for us this is part  of of who we are and especially at a transition so   let's talk a bit about this notion of a transition  right and where we're heading what we tend to   focus on on GE are really all about the problems  with solving what are the inevitable problems in   this transition so let's talk about a few and by  inevitable I mean regardless of what you think   you have to work on these things are going to  happen first thing we know for a fact that we   have seen many extreme weather events right we've  just had the experiences over the last couple of   months right whether it be these prolonged ice  storms or we have these atmospheric rivers or   we see what's going on with the weather patterns  over the last couple of months they're happening   so how do we look at that in terms of the energy  transition the other thing we're seeing is that we   are bringing in more renewable sources and these  renewable sources are variable whether you bring   them on a centralized side or the distributed side  right so we've got to deal with that inertia and   third we're looking at the fact that many more  people are moving to this one sense is that   there's a sense of altruism we need to help the  planet the other is that I want some measure of   energy security I would like to have the ability  to generate my own energy when I need to so those   are the three problems whether you look at weather  inertia or the deals expansion that are happening   and we're looking at them because they're  inevitable the other thing that's inevitable   is data so so here's where um I think data has a  unique part to play everything I described to you   right now has a high degree of variability the  weather is variable right when we add a lot of   deers we're adding them they're distributed in a  way that we don't fully understand that's variable   even with centralized intermittent generation  it's variable variability is one thing we're   looking at that disturbs the flow that we have in  a normally deterministic way volume we're seeing   many more deals being added velocity we're seeing  the rate of change by which all these storms are   happening so when I look at the power system we  have and then the variability the volume and the   velocity I've got to find a way to factor all of  that in in a way that makes sense for the future   and that way to me is to data an AI and a useless  domain or the domain knowledge and models so this   is the motivation for us it's a perfect sort of  place to innovate you mentioned to me three things   well those are the exact three things I want to  focus on I want to focus on how do I actually   use the data I have in weather situations maybe I  could actually begin to think about is there ways   to do outage planning and outage prediction using  data and AI to help me with the weather events in   terms of inertia is there where ways I can use  the models that I have and actually use these AI   systems to find ways to occasionally balance you  know where I can manage in Usher rather than on   a global scale and then in terms of the deals  how do I get the right way to represent those   loads with their variability so I think this  is a time when Innovation is an imperative   as well we in gec that is as its Heritage in  venovo we have many places to go for sources of   information that support us as digital you know  so I think it's a great time for us to be here   now with that same theme in mind let me let me  ask you because you have a Heritage with Opus One   of innovation yourself this is your brand so so  tell me a bit about this notion of orchestration   happening it's happening everywhere we talk  we've got orchestrate and pull these things   together tell me your definition of that and how  do you think of that in terms of where we go in   the future perfect thank you so much and I think  you hit the nail on the head which is around data   and analytics and with increasing unpredictability  complexity and volatility in the system so we talk   about DRS as one of the major factors right we  want the to drive the energy transition we need   to flip the pyramid upside down so instead of top  down generation transmission distribution we have   to decarbonize by electrification and we have  to decarbonize based on decarbonizing the edge   and empowering The Edge to participate on the  grid as really that platform that backbone of   the Energy System but now that completely changes  the Paradigm of grid operations right in the past   very predictable one-way top-down power flow  now we have many many millions of sources some   controllable some uncontrollable some predictable  some unpredictable some can be a top-down type of   hard scada command and control signal some you're  going to beg it here's a Starbucks gift gift card   to incentivize a solution some you can directly  interact as well and some you got to go through   aggregators and now let's remember the the most  of us most prominently increasing Trend which is   economics is going to drive how ders would operate  in the near term I would say so the whole notion   of dsos or transactive energy and having economic  pricing signals that relates and Associates with   the value that DRS can provide on the grid or not  provide in terms of a negative pricing this is key   to really managing the complexity in the system  now that cannot be traditional management of the   grid so I think we need to have a fundamental word  change from managing the grid to orchestrating   the grid and what that means in my opinion is  really going from top down control to System   of systems intelligent coordination it involves  Utility Systems it involves customer systems it   involves behind the meter involves a virtual  power plants wholesale markets so all these   systems need to work together and utilities may or  may not have direct control over them but and they   would actually dictate and govern this stability  inertia operationally the congestion of the grid   even more than traditional centralized generation  so how do we wrap our head around that right so   very soon utilities will be an orchestrator either  a broker or Central coordinator they still need to   maintain the fundamental Mandate of maintaining  reliability resiliency on the grid they need to   serve as customers and customer Choice as they  partner together in this decarbonization process   and ultimately because they are regulated they  still need to remember that they have to keep   affordability and cost potency of the system  so that type of multi-party multi-system that   is the future that is inevitable it's a mega  Trend it has to happen and that's why we have   to enable utilities as GE to actually have the  solutions to comprehend a wrap around all the   complexities in the system so I think the the  magnitude of disruptiveness is one the other is   really I think our job which is I think the the  temp the time that we have is running out so it's   really time for us and and us and the Innovation  team to accelerate the not just tinkering with   um with low TRL or early stage technology projects  but how can we accelerate the the productization   the commercialization the availability and I  think that's perfectly going to be our role   perfect I love the way you frame this especially  this word orchestration right so in my head there   are two things and I want to get you a view on it  one is all about flexibility flexibility to me is   you know I have the capability to do something  but things are varying volume and other things   right so you know when an orchestrated grid it  could be flexible when conditions change the   other is adaptability when something new happens  I've never seen before how do I put that in and   it seems in your term you've gathered both both  the flexibility as well as the adaptability am I   right it has to be it has to be because that's  that's these are the realities or the forces   that are either we call a threat or opportunity in  this system right so I think and one more thing I   would add is actually scalability too uh largely  because if it's small amounts of flexibility I   think traditional means yeah you can brute force  it adaptability we can keep running the same power   flow over and over again but now innovation has  often been in this on the show floor in the past   20 years that we have been in this space really  classified as tinkering projects right it's a   pilot here a pilot there we always say we pilot to  death but now is we we are running a show out of   time and we are running out of uh out of pilot  type of limitations and and very soon we have   to go from the the early mentality to now we have  to scale this as the norm but I think this is the   year that we want to transition out and say make  a steak in the ground and make a claim that says   today this is the year that we have to scale yeah  perfect perfect you also mentioned this notion at   time too which is always interesting to me right  so we um in innovation of GE we have multiple time   scales yeah things we're doing with products now  there's ways we're looking over the next two years   doing pilots and then we have research programs  that have been a part of you've been a part of in   which we're getting investments from governments  to do things and this notion of time allows us to   deal with what's coming ahead in the future and  to respond you know give me an idea you know from   your perspective about some of these time factors  that you're seeing are there things that you're   seeing on the journey that are coming sooner  uh things we should look at things further on   so so the the urgency to change is now where  are we going to focus on the change is highly   relative to these particular utility and grid  right it's dictated by demographics customer   mix generation mix regulations policy Etc so  I think that goes back to the agility versus   agility and adaptability versus the scalability  side we scale too fast and then I call it throw   away code right if we scale too slow and keep  agile then we continue to be in Pilot land for   too long so we need to and I think that's why I'm  excited that the whole grid OS announcement which   is now here's a a flexible scalable platform  that we you know we know can orchestrate data   sets from various sources from various parties in  a common data Fabric in a unified Network model   of the grid the digital twin of the grid and  in a zero trust security trustworthy type of   sense and now the applications the the use cases  that we can overlay on top has the ability to   be agile enough to walk with the utility  despite what where they have to focus on in   near term but now gecs ourselves as the partner  in in addressing some of these early use cases   but also a partner along the journey from one use  case to the other and to the third and the fourth   Etc and it's a notionological progression not  siled isolated projects but a journey towards   the energy transition and we are ready with the  staying power with the resources to invest and   with the the ability to scale so that we can walk  a very long journey with our customers perfect   perfect okay great great great you know one other  point I mean this word orchestration also you know   has me thinking about an actual Orchestra in which  the silos you know of different types of musical   instruments but they come together to give you  that Harmony and something that's built out of   that right you mentioned multiple data sources so  there's new data coming in that we're going to be   pulling in right both real time and non-real  time you know in your opinion as you look at   some of those things what types of data sources  or is there a way we should think about this data   that's coming in you know in order to use it  more effectively yeah so so orchestration is   is a great example or the the orchestra and I used  to be jealous so I love how how we are we are so   it's how we bring all these sources together  and working in harmony but the orchestration   first started I would say within a Durham space  right that's where I came from because we have   the solar and the storage and electric vehicles  and smart thermal stats and a building management   systems I think there is no end in slight to  the diversity and variability of the asset mix   that's happening at the edge right now but what we  realized I think very quickly is derms provide the   orchestration of the Dr portfolio but we need  to go beyond that to look at the grid because   we need to make sure the grid is safe secure year  affordable reliable resilience Etc so now we need   to start introducing other data sets on top of  the Der data sets one is weather the other is   demographics we need to bring in of course the  markets the markets are going to dictate and now   wholesale and Retail distribution of transactive  level type of markets I think those are critical   and I would say one of the biggest greatest thing  beauty of innovation is the law of unintended uses   so we're both laughing because we know how how  how how opportunistic that can be so when we   expose the data set when we can mine design  patterns such as mashups of various data that   you and I have never even dreamed of and we  opened up that ecosystem to third parties and   partners and utilities I think there's no limit  in sight and I'm very very excited to see what   new data sets people can overlay on this grid  yeah yeah I think you're right too I mean and   the other brilliant thing is that we're part of  GE van over so we bring in domain knowledge and   people who do generation from other aspects you  know both about the variable as well as the you   know the gas power type of generation and then we  also have some great energy consultant and other   people so we're bringing all these pieces together  in a way that fits in this notion of orchestration   totally and I think that that's why we call it the  orchestration a good orchestration but ultimately   the grid is the backbone or the platform for the  energy system in total and so let's highlight like   one or two use cases an example right electric  vehicles I think that's a Hot Hot Topic today and   but electric vehicles is not just a derms problem  or an adms problem with enough penetration of EVS   you have Dr portfolio aggregation forecasting  which becomes very challenging with EVS given   there's a huge behavioral and traffic pattern  component that's another data source that we   need to start bringing in then we have the grid  orchestration side on all the congestion and   switching outage situations the risk factors with  hosting capacity but now EVS will go all the way   up to wholesale and up to the bulk power system  are our for example our nuclear Fleet going to be   flexible enough to match the flexibility of demand  like do we need fundamental innovation in our base   generation our our Renewables can we we cannot  dispatch for example solar win but we can tweak   the power factor we can tweak the way that they  they inherit they build um inertia in the grid   so I think all those pieces have to work together  another example is like storm preparedness outages   right I think part of the study that that this  team our team has done is to show that if we   bring tnd coordination and der coordination all  together we can restore 25 to 40 more customers   in an outage and I would add to that right the  restoration capacity increases because of ders   the ability to know the line ratings and get  much closer to capacity is also much higher as   well so I think that's really where we need to  think outside the derms box or the adms box but   look at here's the grid here's how our utility  customers and partners oversee the grid how do   we help them orchestrate all these Data Systems  together to protect the grid I think it makes a   ton of sense to me I mean I love the last example  you had about the tnd coordination in terms of you   know outage risk understanding and planning and  restoration the other thing I love about that is   that it's building upon the new capabilities that  we see showing up with data machine learning and   AI it was interesting to me that a lot of the work  we were doing on forecasting you know we're using   a lot of VI models to look at the historical  data and the impacts of what happens you know   during the storms you know what lines get you know  affected the most yeah we're also using the same   thing to understand the loads that are going to be  happening so there's AI both in the forecasting of   generation forecasting of loads the prediction  of Storms and then these AI used in optimization   right now that can get it done faster more  accurate and in some cases you know even at lower   cost so I think there's a beautiful combination of  the data AI capabilities with the problems we're   facing in orchestration that will have a unique  output for us totally agree 100 because 150 right   um and I think uh I think us coming from the  engineering the classical engineering space we are   going to see or we're already seeing some of the  computational limitations or just pure algorithmic   limitations um of physics or mathematical based  optimization for example to be able to catch up   to the to the agility and and flexibility of the  grid for us to go to the next disruptive step   function we need Ai and I think looking at back  in the in the startup space we see you know I saw   a lot of AI companies have great ideas but they  cannot really tweak the use cases of this grid   because running a degree is complicated but now  I think we we are on the verge of a fundamental   inflection of AI in this space and so my last  question to you then is rating from 0 to 10 how   far are we on the AI Journey as an industry within  the energy sector you know I will tell you it all   depends upon which price process you're looking at  if you're looking at the planning part if you're   looking at the operations if you know maintenance  there's so many different processes we look at   right but in all of them I would tell you I think  we are on the three to four space you know because   we we are very early to this we have to get the  data right and then we have to actually get the   fit you have to find the Fitness in in terms of  is the problem that we're trying to solve fit for   the use of AI and domain coming together and then  the other thing is that every time you introduce   probabilistic things you introduce uncertainty  and we've got to educate people in our culture in   the energy space on how you look at uncertainty  so I think we are well on the way you know but   at the early stages but man it's profound and we  would gee we're going to be here to yeah walk you   through all the way exactly it has been a delight  Josh to have this conversation of course as always   and thank you so much always great talking to  you and always great learning from yourself my   pleasure same to you so thank you everyone  and you have a conference and more to come

2023-08-26

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