the dot pad how the Bible inspired a breakthrough moderator Devin coldway speakers Eric julun Kim and Ki kwangsung thank you and thank you Eric and Keith for uh coming for site Tech Global I'm really excited to talk to you again uh it's always interesting to talk with someone who's doing a real technical technological innovation in an area that it hasn't been standing still but it has struggled to move forward over the last few years uh the the Braille e-reader essentially can you tell me maybe just give yourselves a brief introduction and tell me why you got into this space to begin with hi um David thank you for um introductions I'm Eric um co-founder and CEO of dot um he obviously gonna introduce himself so I'm gonna just briefly uh introduce how he started so uh when he and I was in a college we uh uh we went to the church uh and we saw really really big Braille Bible and we got really shocked and we were uh we were we were kids that who really admire Silicon Valley culture so we wanted to do meaningful thing to the society and that's why we decided to start a DOT and obviously as you mentioned uh Devin there were obviously technological um uh there are pretty much pretty much there's no innovation in this field so we that's what we felt so we really wanted to uh disrupt and we really wanted to um uh make an impact huge impact so we started to develop a full page Braille display uh since 2015 and around 2019 we succeeded uh initial development and right now we have a technological uh leadership in this industry come on key you want to uh give us your side of that story um yeah so yeah as Eric mentioned so um we started this company you know when we were doing different startups so because we went to church together and then we saw the giantic Braille book and then we felt like um there should be a lot of things to change so that's why we started developing uh the full page digital textbook so right now we're um you know we got to the point so we're happy to share our experience and also like technology about the dark path yeah so I I think maybe it would help to set the stage just a little bit to talk about what was there before I mean obviously you have the printed Braille books but you also had a few single line e-readers um what was out there when you started doing this yeah um so uh we hit a you know blind roommate and uh he was like bringing you know like the prayer Bible and then we noticed that if we translate the normal Bible into Braille it becomes 22 volumes so he just caught the Bible and then the brain one by one to the church and then read the you know every single line on the on the Braille text Bible so at the time we were listening to the iPad or iPhone you know whatever the digital contents but he was like bringing the giant to Great book so we um you know like we were shocked actually and we we thought that we need to make some Braille type like iPhone or iPad for the visually with people tell me about what you ended up using as uh what you ended up creating because you this you can't just say like oh I think I'll just make a full page you know Braille e-reader it's like it's such a huge uh sort of technological Endeavor uh where did you even start with something like that did you start with the uh with the dots themselves did you start with the uh previous Technologies and look at those like where did you where did you begin and how did that develop into how the God is today it was a really long journey um um first I think we uh we set them you know we uh we decided the mission um so our mission at first was creating affordable and Innovative technology uh for blind uh people in the world uh that was our mission so our whole technology Focus was creating affordable technology so um and around that time there was like Apple watch was there everyone talking about it so we thought how about we create a braille Smartwatch and uh and that's I think uh really good size and small size small enough size for MVP so we started with that idea and our goal was creating that a watch below 300 so uh obviously the Braille technology that goes inside uh targeted really really low price so we could actually start with that mission and we met so many professors uh and people organizations in this industry and especially we met a lot of technicians that have different technological uh background and we found out uh there are um there there are some possibilities that we could actually make this happen through magnet technology so we met a lot of magnet technicians experts in this area and we started with a prototype and we we took I think around uh three years to make a braille Smartwatch and since it has it you know Smartwatch is really small size we could actually create small technology I think that was really lucky so that technology could actually contribute the full page tactile display that we are creating right now and that technology is Affordable obviously so we could actually create uh you know more affordable and competitive uh price point of technology in in in this sector and uh obviously it was really really hard there were there were so many so many uh uh things happens while we uh or you know until now so I mean I'm just happy that he and I still in this company and we are keep creating innovation yeah I'm curious about the actual the the dot itself the the cells that you created uh we don't have to get into too much like Technical and Engineering detail but what's different about the cells that you created compared with some of the ones I've seen going back 5 10 maybe 20 years in research organizations they have these little devices but they haven't been small enough or they haven't been durable enough how did you come up with the design for your cells uh that it could fit in a smart watch and small enough that it could end up being a grid of thousands of them mm-hmm so um you know we we were creating this Braille Smartwatch first obviously I'm wearing this and uh you know this is little um tiny smart watch um you know we need to have the four cells of the Braille and also um the PCB and everything so we can connect with the iPhone or iPad um so at you know at the time we were looking like this one Technologies like including pH electric or you know Electro polymer Technologies but you know those Technologies was really really big and expensive that was a problem so um you know the peers will actually the size of the dad is like on my hand so we could not you know fit the technology inside of the watch so well um you know we cannot use the the current existing technology we need to make the another I mean um you know electronic magnetic actuator for the new type of small size of Braille display so um so after that we gather all the magnetic or electronic engineers in in Korea and then we reached out luckily um you know sound engineers so that's right yeah wow yeah they were specialized you know the vibrations and magnetic whatever whatever speaker you know technology so um we were you know we got together like a 10 people and then you know creating ideas and you know after after two years uh after spending a lot of money like our seat and series a round round and we you know succeeded making the small size of the electromagnetic actuator that you know finally fit to the watch so um that was our um you know the technological initial initiative and so we created without watch but we we you know had we had some you know issues on that because uh the prayers from a watch is on it is only displaying um the red characters so it has some you know spacing between the the lines to distinguish uh two different lines characters but um to develop the you know the tactile graphic the dot pad we needed to reduce the the line between the cells so we our lab our the sound Engineers they started working the second you know the phase of the technology and then we it took like four years after that this is a lot of time wow but yeah yeah but we you know um succeeded making the new type of the brailles actuator cell so that we can you know put every the single line with this you know the same spacing so so that we can you know the crate the graphic informations here without any disruption so yeah interesting yeah it was such a long process but it sounds like you involved so many smart people I'm curious about what kind of feedback you got when you when you first put it out there maybe when you got your smart watch into the hands of people who were using it what did you find out about the tech that you had used was it not durable enough you know did it not go up high enough uh did you want to put it up halfway what was the you know how has the technology changed over the last few years as you have iterated on it yeah thank you for the great question Devon um back then I think it was uh really um we are really lean so we got so many feedbacks around the world and luckily at that time we got uh we got a lot of news coverage about us because the concept itself was I think creative so a lot of people liked it and that and because of that our investors uh are around that time had really high expectations so I think we were like a really desperate at the time and a lot of customers gave uh really good feedbacks but like as a startup you know Founders you you know you want to show uh growth right so you we needed to sail but a lot of customers gave us feedback like oh how about you know how you know what if I you know like Waters spill into the actuators you know how you're gonna prevent that and I'm gonna protect the actuators um can you put more egg Traders like like bulb sales or 20 sales on the watch and so there are just so many ideas and you know Challenge and obviously people started to compare uh dot watch with Apple watch so so we could um you know have this giant um company so uh Apple watch had so many functions uh like Health functions and everything so we try to uh put their functions on the dot watch but it was really hard um Market expectation was really high and um you know what we could achieve is compared to that is really low so but you know we got based on that feedbacks really crucial feedback we grow grew a lot um and our Engineers uh naturally uh they could improve our technology you know by a customer driven way so um but I think a lot of customers gave us the ideas and the directions towards the path so um you know it was really natural that we could uh we could make uh so the the technology that uh we used for the watch was uh E1 uh his first generation and that the technology that we are using for the pad and tactile display is the second generation and second generation is based on all the feedbacks around the world from our customers gotcha and and once it's funny that you were you know talking about comparing with Apple watch because the last time I talked with you was when you were working with apple uh to work on their their tactile Graphics API I think I got the name right and because that's a way of displaying directly what's on an iOS screen on the dot pad which is just such a cool fundamentally such a great capability uh and it opens up so much just as a starting point and I know you're just getting started in a lot of ways uh can you tell me a little bit of what it was like to work with apple on that you know what do they like to work with did they contribute a lot or you know did you get to work around what they had set out tell me tell me about that so um with the Apple actually you know there is also long journey we met the you know the the person right person and apple like four years ago at the CSUN conference uh we were um talking about how we can develop um you know the the hid Braille standard for everyone so that uh PC and you know Andrew Lewis iOS can support any brand devices and compatibility and at the time I met the own guy from Apple um he was really enthusiastic at making something accessible in this industry and we we kept talking about the accessibility in the world while we can um you know build and how we can impact the world after you know like two or three years uh I developed a prototype of the tactile display and then I showed it around and then he was the first uh the person that I showed the graph the Prototype of the graphic display and then I was I said uh we need to do something here with Apple so at the time Apple was doing some different on the trials about um providing the graphic information to blind people like making some different tons of the sounds for delivering on the charts information so they were very excited you know get into the development with the dark pad I mean Tech graphic display so okay well um we need we gotta we gotta impact something and then we gotta make um the compatibility between the iPhone and iOS and the dot pad and to deliver a whole graphic user interface uh at this moment um the blind people cannot access um we need to deliver the geographic interface to the visually impaired people um through the dark path so um that was like um two years ago and then we started developing um some apis to capture for graphing information and also text information from IOS and then you know the convert that information into tactile way and then display on the pad so it took a lot of times but you know it's on the already on the public API on the iOS um you know soft tier and you know apple and apple and you know us we're getting a lot of feedback from the from the market as well about the API and then based on that they're you know developing some more the functionality based on that API such as um making the keynote accessible or are in numbers this is supposed to that blind people actually can access the whole documentation tools so that they can make some productivity on that gotcha that sounds interesting we're working with them on there obviously they're very motivated I've talked with a lot of people at Apple about their accessibility efforts and they seem they seem genuinely motivated to uh to work with folks like you who are doing some new tech um excuse me but of course iOS is just one platform out of many it's a big one a huge one that is really good to be on but uh now that you've sort of proved out you can work with iOS you can do this kind of thing you can do these Graphics what are some of the places or platforms or services that you are hoping to get into or that you're already working on um so after you know our the collaboration with apple we uh thanks to you that means we you know right on um article about it and TechCrunch and everyone saw that so at the time we luckily you know we got in touch with uh people right people in Google so um they are really excited excited about having those kind of Technology with the Android OS and Chrome OS so um you know they haven't started yet but they are talking about this internally you know um like at Google and then hopefully in the near future we can also connect with the Google platform pretty soon and also uh the one big thing is about uh NV access um Envy mvda software screen reader software from MV access is one of the top um you know the most used screen reader in the world uh on on pc windows was PC and there non-profit organization and we made some donation to them and then they are willing to make some collaboration between mbda and the dotpad so right now we are working on um you know connecting those two platform so that in near future blind people can access the Microsoft Office as you know the whole Microsoft Office functionalities so that in their schools or in their jobs in everywhere they can write their dots on the world file and then access the whole chart the table information from Excel or PowerPoint so our goal you know we're making with them is to enhance the productivity of the blind people in their you know daily life so that's the top you know the news for from that totally yeah well it's great to hear you're working with with uh Microsoft Google envious this is like a who's who in like accessibility world I think that's fantastic um I guess that the obvious question here then is beyond making it possible for the device to work with these Services how do you get the device into the hands of the people who need it I know that every hardware company in the world has been having trouble getting enough chips shipping manufacturing packaging everything has been slow more expensive than usual so how do you how do you plan on getting your device into the hands of people who want to buy one or have one assigned to them by their their company or their whoever um how do you is there is there a way to do that that uh you know are they buying it themselves is it being covered by grants or or uh companies like just tell me how you're how you're making that happen yes uh I mean thank you for a great question um through the top watch um we learned a lot uh as I mentioned and that watch was solely uh b2c product so there was so many hardships uh managing all the customer service managing all the shippings and uh everything so on top head are kind of core um strategy here is work with um really passionate Partners around the world and we also work with the government and organization and one of the greatest the partnership that we have so far is the partnership with aph and humanware so I think they are also the scitec global so they're all really prominent players and prestigious um Market leadership uh that they have is amazing so we are collaborating collaborating with our technology to create Next Generation uh education device so recently a page announced on their [Music] NFP convention and their annual convention that it will be really huge um they called it holy grail of Braille so we're really excited and we are supporting our whole uh you know capacity of engineering right now so uh you know through their um Network and distribution Channel I think a lot of schools in the US will be able to access uh these these kind of you know RR technology and also all the software that we are creating together so that's I think the one way and I think we're gonna do the same things in many many countries not just education sectors like Rehabilitation and uh some some like uh HR department like big tech companies um so I think solely I think I think we're gonna focus on uh B2B and b2g channel and I think uh by end of next year or early uh 2024 we're gonna start a b2c approach but um we don't have any uh we don't have any plan yet for b2c markets so we serve uh you know our partners in important um uh you know strategical uh Partners around the world is our main focus right now out there gotcha that makes sense and so where does the the actual device that you've developed that key showed us uh is that like are going to be a reference design for people to modify if they want to or is that ultimately you do want to sell that you know a hundred of them to you know oracle or Salesforce or whatever like do you do you actually plan on selling those devices to people whether it's you know a government or a or a corporation or something um yeah I mean um so in the US we are collaborating with like Peach and human years so we respect our you know Wonderful Partners so we are supporting just like display uh area so they can make their own on the product and then on the phone Factor so that we can um you know fulfill the needs of the students in the in the schools but different you know uh the the country we are also um try to you know work with the partners our partners around the world so with them you know it's up to their needs I think so we can also provide uh you know only the display part and also we have the you know the design uh one design of the form factor with the device so they can also um get this one for their local um you know the partners so I mean um we are flexible so but we you know um respect our current partners aph and Schumer so um with them we are doing the U.S market but but rather than that we're also um looking for our uh great priorities too and uh and one additional thing is there are so many um so I think you know we opened um graphical user interface world so I think there are so many things to do like games entertainment um we're we're also researching a lot about how we can make sports available um in real time on the path uh with that you know TV broadcasting so like that and how about webtoons or YouTube movies there are so many possibilities so we are uh with our Global Partners we are researching a lot how can we make that happen so right now it's more like intensive research and development phase and um you know and the partners who have Partners have um ability and uh budget for research so I think you know I think um the first Target would be research oriented organizations for research purpose and some of the distribution so um I think around the world a lot of um developers and students will have in their uh our technology in their hand first and where is it where do you think we only have just like a minute left so I want to hear from both you where where are you most excited to see a DOT pad or a evolution of the dot pad whether it's smaller or bigger or on the wall or in a bank or whatever where are you most excited to see your technology appear Eric key is buying time throwing it to Eric Eric you can go first yeah um I think the first you know exciting thing is we made it and um that was our really big goal when we started and for 30 years there was lack of innovation in this field and there was no commercial commercially available in technology in this field and I think we're really happy that we can contribute to the society um especially education field because our all inspiration is actually came from all the children like blind children blind students through our technology and a lot of software support we can enable stem education that's amazing I think we can change their future jobs that's most exciting part for us and we we're gonna I think we're we're putting our life to make that happen and I think this is really you know something that you know you can you can uh pursue until you die this is really great Mission and we really want to change their lives and we really want to change their family's life through uh our work this is amazing thing for us yeah I agree anything to add key yeah um thank you for the time I mean um I mean basically um you know Eric and I you know the DOT and text how this place our life The Challenge and our mission and I don't know how we we you know develop this like until into men but right now we we think that we can do that like until we die but you know like we are we feel like we're making uh a monitor like for the visually impaired people that which means uh we want to do uh we want to reduce the price as much as possible and so that uh we're gonna make it really really affordable like a monitor we can buy from everywhere right now and and then we can provide this monitor like display to everywhere like we're controlled by monitor actually right now we have the monitor here camera I have iPad I have a monitor here we're getting a lot of information through the monitor so um we want to you know provide this monitor for division of the people in everywhere and for every single uh visually impaired people and then the bring the graphic user interface for them so right now that was like back in like a few I mean 15 years ago we had a feature phone but we um the Apple brought a you know iPhone the smartphone so we after that we our life have changed a lot with the graph you know graphing interface and I mean like with that with that Graphics of visual interface of usually people can access the education materials uh any documentation tool in their jobs so that you know it's I I don't think it is about accessibility but it's about productivity so um we can you know innovate their productivity in their life and you know I hopefully the graphic graphic display can be the window um to the that point so um this uh music exciting part for me yeah absolutely well I I hope that you continue to develop it and I hope you don't die uh I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it next uh and thank you for joining us here today uh it's been very engaging chatting with you both and hopefully I will get a chance to talk with you again soon thanks for coming thank you [Music]
2022-12-11