Tech and the Future of Accounting: A Chat with The Radical CPA
hello and welcome to the unique CPA with your host Randy Crabtree we're committed to creating a thriving community of accounting professionals who are physically and mentally healthy fulfilled and energized by their work our ultimate goal is to elevate the reputation of the accounting profession and vastly improve the lives of those in it the unique CPA is brought to you by Tri Merit the specialty tax professionals today our guest is Jodie pedar the radical CPA I've known of jod for a long time we recently got to talk which is fun and decid to well actually going backwards I was told when we started the podcast that jod was one of the first people we needed to get on I didn't tell her this and for some reason I just was delinquent in getting out and reaching out to her so I'm so glad we connected today Jody welcome to the unique CPA oh thanks for having me I'm excited to be here yeah and part of it was we were like neighbors until you recently moved but you know we were both in the Chicago suburbs right yeah absolutely um my firm was in Chicago for 15 years before it ended and yeah so uh right in Chicago right exactly so you really don't like I said need an introduction but why don't you give us a little background of you and and maybe even where the radical CPA came from and then after that we'll get into what you're doing these days sure so it's years ago now and I keep forgetting it because it seems like it was just yesterday to me but my children were small and I left a midsize firm and I actually joined my dad but it was really kind of creating this new Cloud firm which was 2006 and we were iterating utilizing those Cloud Technologies pricing all the things that people say are the new firm today we were doing in 2006 2010 we were coined a movement by the aicpa and we really started to share the word around iterating about how to work differently with clients when you utilize new technologies cuz too many firms just take new technology and insert it on the business model that's broken and it doesn't work you really have to change your business model and so we were iterating on it like way back when and I went to Twitter and I started blogging for accounting today to figure it out just because I was figuring it out in my head and writing was easy for me and then I started posting about it and people started to connect to me and they really started to follow me and so I kind of like gathered my following at that point and then the vendors started to connect with me because they want to build software to where the market is going not to where they are and so I kind of got this product background and really understanding of like Technologies and how they change fast forward around like 2014 Rick telberg came to me and said you need to write the book and you need to write it now so I published my first book The Radical CPA which was really kind of all the things that I had figured out in my firm I wrote another book which was more of a how-to guy died and I became what I always say like an influencer the Kim Kardashian of accounting software before like you could be an influencer you know like nobody knew that's what it was actually called I was just a person who talked a lot blogged a lot and like really kind of moved a market right 2020 I exited my firm and I joined botkeeper as vice president of strategy for them because it was taking my firm where I wanted it to go with artificial intelligence and bookkeeping and it was an opportunity for me to really get into the tech side of it and product and like learn kind of the other side because I'd always been on the firm side and doing things and then two years ago I left botkeeper and I joined the startup where I currently am it's called April and we're developing tax software and a brand new tax engine from the ground up right now we're in the consumer Market but we're shifting kind of to the professional Market as well but we're really thinking about what tax software is going to look in the future and that's what I do today I'm vice president of tax strategy and evangelism cuz you know I have a big mouth at April but I still have my radical CPA routs and I'm still really passionate about helping the profession as a whole move forward and doing things differently to make their lives better ultimately because it's not about the tech it's not about the business model it's about having your life and not working a bazillion hours a week and not being happy at the end of the day it's about having a life so you were the original accounting influencer awesome and I believe that's true I mean I had heard of you I through the moniker the radical CPA years ago even before people were telling me yeah you got to get Jody on the podcast so I can't believe it took me this long to get you on the podcast and that's my fault so couple things that you said there in 2006 already Cloud integration efficiencies through technology all the stuff that I think are so important I'm no I'm not good at it but I think are so important for firms these days when you look at what's going on today what are the big things that that you're seeing affecting the profession and I assume it's going to revolve around technology well I think it's technology and talent and I think we're at actually The Perfect Storm to actually change the way we work and I would have said oh like it was going to be Cloud you know years ago but when you look at artificial intelligence and how the technology Works behind the scenes and you don't have to worry so much about putting the widget together which is kind of what my firm and the early adopters really had to figure out like it means that the Market's going to move so much faster now because you don't have to know AI you just have to know the problem you're solving and the AI is just going to work and I think that's what people don't understand because they think of this technology like it's the technology that we're familiar with from years ago and they think you have to learn it but in reality it's just going to work in the background and we're not even going to know it's like built in and things are just going to work so much better I say it's like 1992 again if you think about like I started pre- internet like right when the internet wasn't you bit is and how much like if you were alive and you worked at that time you realized how much the internet has changed what you do and I believe like we don't even think of it as being the Internet it's just how we do work Y and I believe that's what Ai and machine learner are going to do for us as CPAs we're not going to be like oh I have to go do AI it's just the work we're going to do and we don't even have to learn it just like you never learn the internet it just kind of is there right right I agree and I've heard that similar statement before because I think people do freak out about AI like I I I can't understand this how am I going to learn how to use Ai and what you said is exactly right you don't really have to learn it's just going to be in there it's going to be part of the tools that you're already using it's going to get integrated into them from that standpoint you know I'm sure pretty much everybody out there probably already is using AI at some level and they don't know it I mean do you see that in Integrations already well yeah so I'll take it back do you use Netflix does Netflix give you a suggestion as to what you should watch next on TV guess what you're using AI right so people don't even realize that right like it's in already things that we do every day we just don't realize it and so I think the bigger thing is is it's in these new tools but I think what's going to be hard for accountants to think about is the brain shift or the Mind shift of how we're going to do things so like if you think about even like machine learning and artificial intelligence on transactions instead of looking at 400 transactions now you're only going to review four because 400 were already approved and the Machine figured out were correct right whereas before as an accountant you had to look at all those transactions and say yeah they made sense now you're looking at the exception not everything and you're going to have to like kind of get to trust that those exceptions like the machine is smart enough to know that it's only going to give you the exceptions and so that's the like the Mind shift that I think people are going to have a harder time adjusting to is like you don't like and I always say too like you go to the cast station do you count your cash every time it comes out of the cash station do you right like it knows and I think we as accountants we like double check things that we shouldn't have to double check so if it gives you these except you should only look at the exceptions you don't have to look at the 400 transactions behind it right or it's going to do things that you're not even going to think about and you're going to be like okay wait what is the problem I'm solving for and how is the technology going to actually fix the problem because the things we used to do aren't necessarily going to be the things we do in the future so kind of those process changes and things like that are going to be the adaptations for accountants that we're going to have to kind of get used to yeah and I think that's a huge part of it because because as a profession well we have a mindset that we have to work so hard and we have to do this and I I got this impression if we don't feel like we're putting in 60 hours a week we're really just not doing our job and we have to help everybody and this is all and so now what you just said on yeah we have to double check what AI is doing which we know is GNA be right no don't do it because that's the efficiencies that this is going to build in and just like you have to trust the people that we work with you have to trust the AI because it is accurate it is going to be so I will make one caveat about that though I will make the caveat that if it's like a generic model and you're using chat GPT and you're just asking it something I wouldn't necessarily always trust that exactly but if it's a highly specialized model that's built into some accounting or tax software that's already ours then like I would trust it right so I think there's a little bit of like kind of this generic overview of AI versus a tool that's purpose-built for mountains and then those are the ones we trust just so like there's not any confusion around that no no and that's a good call I mean I use like chat GPT now just to do some research but I still am double-checking that just because and that's the way it is and whatever version four whatever is supposed to be so much better than 3.5 I'm just using 3.5 I haven't paid my $20 a month yet or whatever it is I probably should but just for me I mean from just that simple thing when I'm writing I was writing a um part of my mental health presentation recently I wanted new statistics on it and it when the first version of that presentation it took me hours to find these statistics that I wanted to throw in there you know 52% of us are feeling burnt out at some point in their careers all this type stuff and that took forever C GPT gave it to me in three minutes I took another five minutes just to confirm you know look at that search that is an accurate quote figure out where it came from at least and which I could have just asked jtp you know give me the reference for this and I wasn't that smart yet but it did it and so just that simple thing saved me two hours and that's just that's nothing compared to the accounting Integrations and tax Integrations that are coming from an April standpoint I assume this is something that you're all integrating or maybe have integrated already uh what's the plan there yeah so the way April is thinking about AI is I'll say it's not the sexy stuff which like we're using it behind the scenes to actually read tax instructions so like when you interface with our product it's not like you see it and say oh that's AI right like that's why I'm saying it's not the sexy stuff but on the back end it's allowing us to basically code forms 10 times faster than everyone else in the industry because we're building models to read instructions and then they basically code the tax forms faster so when the laws change and we go from you know 2023 to 2024 or it's going to take us you know oneth of the developers to do that work because we're automating that process right so that's where we're using it again I I it's cool but it's not like you know I don't know it doesn't make some pretty picture or something right and it's not again but though it's like you said before it's just going to be in the background you're going to see it for you in the background it's helping efficiencies to to put the the program together and I'm sure there'll be efficiencies in in in other areas so as an example of things that I've seen so I was just at a conference last week or this week actually yesterday actually man I don't know where I am or what day it is where they rolled out things that they're doing with AI for this new um program I don't know if I'm supposed to say who it was or so I'm not going to say names but it was just like help write a job description based on putting a couple words into a payroll software this is what we want this is the RO here's the location here's whatever and boom it put this whole thing together and then they said well we don't like that we want this to be better so they said why don't you do that in rhyme so they put this job description out there and rhy and it was so cool um but then they also showed how they could take an Excel spreadsheet with hours on it with not even the same you know headings that are going to be in the software and just said hey integrate this in and run the payroll and it was so intuitive that it just figured out where everything was to go where the overtime was all this and so again don't like Jody said like you said don't you don't have to double check it it's there at least at this point we assume it was you might want to do a couple double checks but man it's just the efficiencies are just going to be crazy and that's what we need in our profession so the other thing is is when we talk about efficiencies and like you know we're like the lack of talent it's hard to find people right so we're going to get the efficiencies but the other thing that I think people forget about because they say well like you know it's going to take our jobs and then I keep thinking if you really understand what the power of AI does and how it gives you access to so much more data and honestly I think it's going to create more work for us because now we're going to have to compare it to things that we just kind of ignored before because we never like it was never really easy to figure it out so we just said well like it's good enough right but now when you bring all that data in because AI can bring it in seamlessly now we're going to have to figure out how to include more things in analysis because we're going to have access to more data that we never had before so I think too like when people start to hear that then they're like oh my God there's going to be like that much more work and I that's the stuff it's like we don't know what we don't know yet and so like to me that's the exciting stuff like what's going to come how else is being an accountant going to change and evolve as we have so much more access access to unstructured data that's now structured data and once it's structured you can do so much more with it so to me that's the cool stuff yeah and and it allows us then to be more freed up because we have more data we have more information to be this high-end advisor than you know advisory Services everybody's talking about and as well but now we're we are freed up to do this high value high priced advisory services that our clients really want but now it frees us up to do it because we have more access to data at our fingertips let's project for a minute I mean 5 years 10 years I know it's hard because I mean AI really we're less than a year right since chat GPT came out and that's where everybody really started to get an idea of okay this AI exists now things have been out there before but that's where it really came out and the progression that's happened just in that short time has been big have you gone out and like thought okay what are we going to look like in five years do you have a prediction or 10 years down the road so I think I have a unique perspective because of my space in the high-tech world and the kind of VC run world and my brand as the radical CPA quite a few startups reach out to me with their ideas to show me what they're building before it's like before even some of it before they're funded some of it as they're getting funded some of it is like just for my opinion so some of the tools that I've seen are like wow right like and these are tools that are like people say oh it's coming no it's here it's just not widely distributed not everybody sees it right and I think the cool thing for me is like rethinking how all this stuff is going to work in the future so I think in three years is not too long to say that what we're doing today is going to be pretty different than what we were doing like in three years I I think in I think three years is probably the right time frame I don't think it's next year but I think in three years like a lot of these tools are going to be ready for prime time and we're going to be like wow like as accountants look at what we can do now utilizing these new tools yep for sure and I know one concern that and legitimate concern that people have out there because right now you know cat GPT is pretty much anything you put in there and becomes public data and if we're going to be using this to deal with tax returns and financial statements and bank accounts and credit card accounts obviously one of the things we need to figure out is the security end of things and I didn't know if you had any insights or or comments on that well I think like anything else if they're building tools to fit the CPA profession they're going to think through those issues I don't think I I think it's still like new right as a whole like it hasn't been litigated yet so like even like smart attorneys are going to make assumptions and we'll see CU eventually it'll get litigated take a time but I think that you know I think as a CPA you have to keep your eyes open but I also think that you don't want to lose because you're waiting for you know 10 years for AI to be like approved right like because I think you'll lose some of the value too I think I I think it's risk reward and every business owner has to think about risk reward in their business and I think we should be thinking about it too yep I agree all right so I I think that was a great discussion you are obviously you know at the Forefront you're seeing these things way before a lot of us are you've been and this is not new to you you've been doing this for 17 years now going back to L6 so you have been the radical CPA you have been at the Forefront of these kind of changes so before we wrap this up I don't know if you want to put a bow on the discussion just a couple final thoughts before we move on no I think my big thing is is just be open to it and to be like Curious and that's all we can ask is to be curious about the things that are changing and go with it because otherwise like I don't want to be talking about this in 10 years and we're still call The Firm of the future I can't yeah yeah that's that's true so well I'm not sure I'll be still uh working in 10 years from now so uh I'll leave that to you then I'm not sure how much longer I could take no I'm enjoying I'm having fun all right well before we wrap up there's a couple final questions that we do every show uh and the first one is you know we just obviously talked about Ai and all the cool things you've done for such a time you know going back to 06 when you started the cloud and embracing all this change when you're not thinking about technology and Innovation and the profession what are your outside of work passions what do you enjoy doing so I live in a wonderful place called dor County Wisconsin people call it the Cape Cod of the Midwest if you're not from the Midwest you don't know but if you're from the Midwest you know how beautiful it is I live right on Green Bay and I have a kayak that in the summer I love to be out on now in the winter it's 20 below but in the summer I am out on my kayak enjoying Lake Michigan and all its beauty yeah we talked about that a little before we started recording you know I'm a couple hours from dor County and I've actually never gone there and I I mean you'll have to come visit there you go we're GNA do that and go up there and get some new glaris beer too while I'm up in Wisconsin then so all right and then final thing if anybody wants to follow you or hear more about what you're doing where would they connect or you know what's the best place to look to see what Jodie pedar is doing these days so the easiest place to find me is son LinkedIn so just go to LinkedIn type in Jodie pedar and I will pop up and you can follow me or you can connect to me either one yeah and I didn't say this earlier but you have the second most connections on LinkedIn of any guest we've ever had I think Tom Hood was a little bit more but you're right there your neck and neck was with them so I believe Tom Hood it probably has more but we we were both early adopters of social media of which I have to say everyone told the CPA profession don't go on social media and you see how like where that like left people so like you kind of got to take a risk every now and then yeah and and to that end I'm sitting in Denver today at the text Twitter Retreat which is all these individuals met because of this common Bond of the tax world and created their own hashtag # tax Twitter and now created this community and Community I think is so important in our profession or in general absolutely well Jody this has been a pleasure I am so mad at myself that it took four years to get this done but it was so gracious of you to agree to be on and and believe me I'm hoping we can do it again someday well thank you for having me it's been a pleasure thank you for joining us today on the unique CPA you can find the show notes for today's episode and learn more about TR Merit at the unique cpa.com remember to subscribe and leave a five-star rating on your favorite podcasting app and join us next time for more expertise and insights on the unique CPA professional productions.net
2024-08-18 12:11
