This week, a conference is being held in Riga, Lithuania, on mobile warning systems for European populations in the event of a disaster. The EU has set a deadline of June 2022 for each member country to be equipped with a solution. To learn more about the choice made by France in terms of technology, I have Camille Chaize, spokesperson for the Ministry of the Interior, by my side. Small digression, I learned that you have launched a channel on Twitch. Yes, every Thursday at 6 p.m., yes, I open a stream. People can then ask
questions about anything they want about the Ministry. We discuss, we exchange, we debate and sometimes I thematize if there is a particular request. So every Thursday at 6 p.m. Ok good. In the meantime, it will therefore be in Smart Tech that we will discuss its alert systems, also with Arnaud Westphal, who is Intersec's European and Africa Sales Director, alongside you, and Intersec is the service provider that was chosen by the Ministry of the Interior to set up this new alert system for populations. So already the first question for you Arnaud Westphal: does this system, which must alert citizens via their mobile phone, require any action or will require any action from French citizens? Hello. No need for action for French citizens.
This is precisely what France has understood, knowing how to use a system that requires nothing from users. No need to install an application on your mobile phone. It is also really the objective of the European Commission to make sure to use their mobile as we are used to doing and to receive a contextualized alert according to their location. OK. What are, Camille Chaise, imperatives in terms of population protection? Today we are post Coid-19, I imagine that the context nevertheless played a lot on the decision-making. Yes, there were two major events for us to help us evolve. So we evolve all the time, we remember in the 19th century the alarm bell that we sounded on the bell tower, now the siren systems, finally here it is a long progress in our system of protection of the populations. There were two events: there was Lubrizol, the industrial accident with all the same this black smoke which worried the population so much for so many days and for which we saw the public authorities having difficulty making themselves understood in the messages. And then indeed this health crisis, but we
also have many other events. For example we had in Mayotte in 2021 an underwater volcano which greatly worried the population, so we see that we have to adapt our protection messages, that we also use the channels that everyone uses today to reaching people and their is nothing better than cell phones. And as you said, nothing to install on the phone and it also works with very old cell phones. There is no need to have a latest generation smartphone for this to work, the important thing is really to reach everyone. We are really in the idea of replacing the siren the first Wednesday of the month because finally we also realize that these systems were very punctual whereas it is on the long term or the medium term at least that we have to manage a crisis today. Meaning that it's both a warning systems and a crisis management tool. We know it, we do well
what we do somewhere every day. And the system must be deployed enough so that we are used to using it, that we are not surprised and that we know how to use and have the right behavior. This is what we expect from people, to inform them of the situation so that they can protect themselves in addition to what the public authorities are going to do. So yes for us it is clearly a combination between the existing and new solutions, and we intend to use them at the same time for all that is a natural disaster, industrial, but also for example on events of major public order, on a health crisis why not also, so we have a new tool at our disposal thanks to the spur of the European Union which calls on us to comply and move forward on these subjects. So how does this technology work. So we have already given a first hint, no need to install an application so how does it work? It works by collecting mobility data from mobile telephone operators, i.e. when you walk
around your phone so that it works, will connect to antennas so we will be able to have this data from mobility, how people move. And the goal is that from the moment we collect this data in our big data platform, we are able to contextualize a message according to its location. So quite simply, you keep your phone in your pocket as usual and you will be alerted if you ever have a problem. What do you do with, you broached the issue of big data, what do you do with all of this data? So all of this data, it remains with the operators, it is the property of the operator it never goes back to the state level, it is very important, in particular if we think of your previous guest on GDPR regulations etc. All the data is with the operator and it does not go back so we really keep the anonymization of each person, we look at the masses. So you have as an
indicator all the phones that are connected with geolocation points, what do you do with them? What we are doing is providing governments with a web interface on which you will be able to draw areas depending on where you have a problem, a crisis to manage, so they can alert and at the same time manage the crisis. So this is an illustration. There you have it, so there you have an illustration where you are going to draw an area on the coast - there we are not in a tsunami situation because we are not in the right region but in any case it is the objective - where we will alert all the people who are on the coast to communicate with them according to the context which can be a tsunami to go inland and to avoid these problems. So at the Ministry of the Interior, once you access this map you have this interface, what are your means of action? We are mainly in the writing of the message to the population, what advice we give. We have the objective of informing them, telling them what is, also how to behave so as not to put themselves in unnecessary danger. So for example if we take the example of what is happening today there is a red alert in Provence Alpes Côte d'Azur, flooding and risk of torrential rains, we can geolocate all the mobile phones of people in this area, and everyone receives, whether they are French and foreign, whether they have an old or a recent phone inform all this population present in this area without any data collection but by sending the right message. So for us it's very important and maybe just to
complete, the message appears on people's phones even if the keypad is locked, so it's also something we thought of to really reach as many people as possible even those who are, say, the least connected of the world. So it goes through which channel precisely? So we're on the SMS channel and some other technology. So this is the SMS channel even if I have not activated my notifications so that my SMS appears on my home screen, will it still appear? Yes you have the option which is called cell broadcast which is also another GSM standard which allows you to automatically ring your phone even if it does not accept to receive messages, so that's really very important. And then tomorrow you will also potentially have the satellites with Galileo which will be the evolution of the various broadcasting channels so this is really an important point. Your phone, in any case, thanks to the choice of France as well
since they have chosen this multichannel approach, will be able to cover the entire population. Yes, because the SMS at the beginning is a channel used by the operator, a professional channel, which are there to do business, and therefore it is still adapted today to this alert system. The question will ultimately be the measure I imagine for the Ministry of the Interior. That is to say that when should we decide to activate this alert system, or do we not risk alerting too much if we do all the weather alerts for example, it may be a little extreme. So we have alert levels, for example red alert level is the highest. There, probably, we are finishing all that, but probably we will trigger for orange alerts for example it will not be necessary. There is also
everything that is linked to terrorism, for example, or to major public order events where it will undoubtedly be necessary. So we are experimenting and setting up the effective processes. We know that it should not be too recurring otherwise there is the risk of boring people, so we really have to keep it for, as we say in our jargon, the high end of the spectrum, so major emergency situations where we also expect a particular behavior of the population. As we know, the population can help us in crises, can help us by protecting themselves. Simple messages for example. Many people, the first reaction when there is a crisis, is to go to school to pick up the children, while the national education system sets up its own measures to protect schoolchildren when there is an earthquake, a flood, to bring them to safety. And on the contrary,
it is putting oneself in danger and endangering the system and the emergency management to have this behavior. So I think that there is still a lot to do on the protection of populations to simply give the right advice on behavior so that everyone can help us, assist us in crises. So it is ultimately a real communication and pedagogical tool, but we will also have to do upstream pedagogy to explain the arrival of this system because it can be very disturbing. I know there are people who were amazed to already receive text messages during the Covid-19 period. During all this technological experimentation, you also have a period of communication experimentation with the population? Yes, social acceptance is always the key to all public policies for us, so we know we have work to do. Afterwards,
most people are more in demand for information rather than the other way around when there are these periods of crisis. Indeed when we are on behaviors, for example in health terms, social acceptance is less, we see it currently in the debates for example on vaccination, but when we are on a crisis of natural disaster or industrial type, or even a public order type such as terrorism, globally there is a kind of sacred union. People want to know, want to be informed. That's why there are so many people at those times to follow us, especially on social networks, to subscribe to our social networks, because they need reliable information. Many listen to radio and television, but they really need an official word that will also be broadcast by this means. So social networks have
invested a little in this field during the major events that we have known, especially in France, ultimately allowing interactivity. That is to say that the user can decide to declare that he believes to be in a secure area in the event of a terrorist attack typically, it has been experienced and rather followed by Internet users. Does your device, your technology, also allow you to have a form of interactivity? We are indeed going to look with the French State on how to implement this at the level of the various social networks, that is part of the choices made by the ministry. The question is always the same thing: how are we going to ensure
that the information is relevant so as not to pollute the message and pollute the information feedback at the level of the ministry, so it's something that will have to be done in a smart way so as not to dilute the messages and especially not to scatter. We are on crisis management, we still have to go quickly, make sure things are done, and not be too diluted in the end. So there could be in this device both the alert channel for everyone and perhaps applications, interventions. It is part of the reflections. You
work on all this variation. Absolutely. These are things that we already provide which are off-the-shelf products that the Interior Ministry has selected for some of them, so these are things that will of course change over time. As Camille said, the objective is really to develop this solution to be able to respond with technology to the best and alert our population. Is there a French strategy that is perhaps different from neighboring countries? So yes, we all have a little different behavior depending on the country. So some are quite advanced, the United States, the Netherlands, Belgium. The important thing for us is that it is adapted to the needs of our citizens, of our
fellow citizens, that it is also accepted so we must find the right measure also according to our level of connection, our age pyramid as well. So the objective is to combine the two technologies, not to make a clean sweep of the past, but really to make sure that we are as efficient as possible in the end, and perhaps that we will maintain the siren device at the same time that we have this cell broadcast solution. Would it be far-fetched to imagine a single system for Europe? Maybe we will come to this one day in any case we are moving forward, we are also moving forward thanks to this European directive that we have registered in French law, we are moving forward according to the needs of our fellow citizens and we are quite happy with the pace that it is taking with this project which is finlizing. You explain, Camille Chaize, that ultimately, someone who ends up on the Côte d'Azur, a place where a major event is happening, but is not a French national, would also receive the alert. Absolutely, it's really the location of the phone and we can then have, without speaking of foreign tourists, even a Parisian who finds himself in Marseille who does not necessarily have in local social networks such as the Twitter account of the prefecture of Bouches- Du-Rhône for example, and there he would receive the same information if he was caught in an event of public order, in a climatic event, which means that he needs to protect himself. And for that we do not need cooperation with European neighbors, whether it is the operators elsewhere? There are exchanges and we are following them closely. We work with all our European neighbors. Does
the issue of roaming, for example, arise? Absolutely, in fact we reuse the data of the operators. It is their job to be able to know which foreigner is coming to France, whether it is a German or a Belgian, and to provide mobile capabilities. So from the moment a foreigner can call when he is in France, we are able to locate him and we are able to apply precisely the same rules as for a French citizen. And that, with no required action. That is to say that if I go to Belgium, the objective is to be able to have in the host country the possibility of receiving these messages without having to take any action. So that's what I was going to say, if I am a French national, that I am in Germany at the time of a major event affecting the French population, what happens? You will be able to receive a message from the French government since we, French people who are going abroad, is also something that has been embarked on in the project with the ministry. And what
do you know about neighboring systems? Do we have compatibility between our different warning systems? I think that's going to be part of the next discussions. And what will happen from October 6 to 8 in Lithuania, will that be the discussion? Know how we agree on a system that will be compatible between each country? We will soon take the French presidency of the European Union for six months at the beginning of the year and this is part of the discussions that will be carried by France actually hope, if not for standardization, at least for compatibility between our different systems and ultimately a service to the population that works wherever we are. So that's one of the things that will be on the agenda. Have we, the French, had specific and strict requirements with regard to service providers who have made technological proposals for this alert system? When you presented your file, what type of criteria did you have to meet? Yes and no. I think that all European countries today are going in different axes. The goal is to really
be able to alert the entire population. One of the points I would perhaps say to get one out is the importance of having precisely this anonymized data and what is called population density. Once again, one of the very important points for the ministry of the Interior was, I will take a very simple example with the image of a donut that everyone knows: you have a hole, a zone and also outside the donut. The objective is to be able to contact people according to each place where it arises since, on a crisis, you alert where you are and you can alert a few hundred meters away, a few kilometers away, and the message must be different. And that was a really very critical point for the ministry to be able to do crisis management and not just alert where something is happening but also communicate before, during, and especially after the crisis "you can go home, the crisis is over ". Having truly differentiated messages. This is the kidnapping alert system for example, which works quite well, is a model that you follow? So that doesn't have much to do with it. The kidnapping alert model is above all a
mobilization of the media, motorway carriers, motorway rest areas, etc. where we will mobilize a certain number of actors with a message. There you don't need an intermediary. There is no intermediary, on the other hand, what is identical is that it is a
sufficiently rare solution to be 100% effective, and that we retain that we must not tire the population with it. things that would be repeated or which would be, as you said, excessive communication. You really have to be able to target the messages at the right time and not flood people with prevention messages. So that I remember from the kidnapping alert system
that we really need to have conditions and an extremely reliable process that is really only for the high end of the spectrum so that it continues to operate in the company. So I ask you the question, too, Camille Chaise: what convinced the Ministry of the Interior to work with Intersec? Different criteria. I will not go into market conditions but in particular we want technological seriousness, we want strong monitoring and security in the networks, GDPR compliance, as we mentioned, the links with operators which are important to us. So there you have it, without going into the process. To the question of sovereignty over data? Yes, sovereignty has played a role, and working with companies like yours, indeed, it remains in our French fold. So it is indeed things that weighed heavily. Are you committed to this? Of course, that was part of the discussions, as you said very well. We remain in a 100% French technology.
We are a French company based in La Défense and the data, once again, remains in France with the operators in close collaboration with the government. So what is the deployment schedule going to be? So we are in the experimentation phases, here we have a deadline in June so it will be done before that date. There we experiment. Corsica volunteered, Seine Maritime, the city of Rouen in particular post-Lubrizol, as well. So we test, we experiment at different scales, we do exercises, we process the whole. And if we are in
Corsica for example, we will receive a test message? So there are tests, there are also exercises of varying magnitude, so here we are in this phase of experimentation before the deployment which will be operated next year. Will you be before June? Yes we will be before June. And on these tests, when will we receive the first test messages? So that will depend on the calendar and the choice of the ministry since we have to find the right cities, the right people who want to use the tool in advance of the phase so we will see. And the work with the operators, are there any particular constraints to take into account? The only constraint is a real collaboration between the government and the operators, this is what we see in France and elsewhere as well. But they don't really have a choice, do they? Due to European law, they will not have a choice. Afterwards, it must be done in good understanding. We have had examples in Europe where when we are forced, collaboration is not successful and therefore it's complicated to carry out projects and there's a risk of being late, which is not the case in France since there is good collaboration between the operators and the State. And yourself, are you already working with the operators? Absolutely. On what type of
topics? We always find and give meaning to mobility data, so we do the same thing but for different use cases such as marketing at the service of operators for operators. We come from there in fact. So you are already a partner. Exactly, partner of the operators and then now of the French government. Thank you very much, thank you Camille Chaize, spokesperson for the Ministry of the Interior, and Arnaud Westphal, Commercial Director Europe and Africa of Intersec. We therefore had the two protagonists of this future warning system for populations in the event of a disaster.
2021-10-12