Episode 14 Cordss A creative web developer at CISCO

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Hi, listeners, I am Prateek Choudhary, and welcome  to the Cordss podcast, Cordss is a one-to-one   mentorship platform, and today on our podcast  we are with an industry expert to mentor you. Today we will be talking about interview  preparation, what are the requirements of   the industry, what are the differences between  a service-based company and a product-based   company for an engineer, and to answer all  these questions I have invited Varun Ganni.   Varun is a creative web developer who has  been in the industry for more than seven years   worked had worked with TCS(Tata Consultancy  Services) for five years and for the last three   years he is in Cisco as a software engineer three. So welcoming Varun Ganni, Hey Varun how are you?  Hi Prateek, thanks for the  warm welcome, how are you.  Yeah, I am fine too and I'm very happy to have  you so Varun, feel free to share your story,   and then we can have your insightful answers  to specific questions that we have for you.  Yeah sure, so as you said mentioned earlier  I have around 7 years of experience and   my graduation, my major is actually  biotechnology so yeah lucky me I mean   a little bit of luck a little bit of hard work  and I landed a job on a campus placement with   TCS(Tata Consultancy Services) and from there  I've been there for five years. I started as  

a full-stack developer and slowly migrated from  and then I like there and after that, i figured,   I should move on in my career, and then I went  with cisco and currently I'm working with them.  Okay, so as you said you were in  bioengineering so how you landed   on the software part then were you interested  in it or some miracle happened with you?  Not exactly I would say I was just going I  mean we had an opportunity to go for it and   I had some basics in C++ and I didn't have  to go through any CSE examinations actually   it can test for logical and reasoning  and adding to that I had a little bit   of coding it was just a simple while loop  at the iteration or something that's it.  That's really interesting man, okay so over  and as you are in the industry for the last   seven years now so are there any requirements  from the industry now or anything you see it   is required which was not so important or  not even exist when you join as a fresh.  when I joined at the fresher one thing I noticed  that back then and the huge difference right now   is there was no demand for specificity basically  if you are a developer or a Java developer they   expect you to work on the front end and the  database as well now you go you have printed   developer you have a backend developer you  have in SQL or specific developers and you have   all of that specificity was not really. I mean  didn't really matter at that point in time   so that is one thing like you know if you're  good at one particular skill in one particular   domain you can just still have a  lot of career options at this point.  Okay okay okay and as you switched from  TCS-Tata Consultancy Services to Cisco   which is changing from a service-based  company to a product-based company right?  Yes! Yeah, so what is the difference between a   service-based company and a product-based company  for an engineer or talking from a developer side?  Okay so right off the bat will be the pay  difference that will be like a huge difference   you. I mean if service-based companies paying  you X amount you can expect at least 3x to 4x  

type of amount for the same developer.  So that huge pay difference will be there   but apart from the difference the best thing I  mean pay doesn't matter in a long run actually   but the main thing is the culture. Okay  See in a service-based company they all the  value is a particular technology and how good   you are with that technology they don't care about  your problem-solving techniques and all of that.  Oh is it? Yes, I see   usually I mean that that's my experience  so far and when you come to product-based   they don't care about the technologies.  I mean they do, they'll see if you're   comfortable with it but the more focus or  the best selling point is how good you are   in terms of problem-solving because anyone can  learn to code but you should be able to solve   problems and adding to that they also make sure  that you are a good culture fit it's not like   they don't want to disturb this specific culture  that they're bringing up so that culture is like   trustworthy I mean in a service-based company you  don't have free freedom and ownership you just do   what they are being told you can't just say okay  this is not something good because let's refactor   it and deliver it they'll be like not so free  I'm not so approaching you about it they will be   asking you to usually try to move it to  technical debt and or backlogs that's it.  

so that that way if you're going for product  based company i think the learning curve the   freedom that you experience and it makes you feel  work every day feel like coming to work every day.  Okay okay, so what is your experience from  both the companies first you were in TCS,   so what role did you play there and now in Cisco  so what exactly you do at Cisco, can you please   share your experience of both the companies? Sure so TCS i started off working with morgan   stanley there it's an investment banker  and the application was something about   corporate actions basically in if any large  clients have any different corporate auctions   they don't have enough time or they don't usually  care about all the details and the processes so   we morgan used to stream them all of them and just  give them minimum notifications and corresponding   actions and they will take care of everything else  like if you want to do something we'll do we'll   take care of how to do it and everything just  tell me what you want to do that sort of thing.  okay okay okay, yeah so Varun you must have  given so many technical rounds of an interview so   how one should prepare for technical interviews  because we all must go to geeks for geeks or any   other platform but what mindset do we need  to have when giving a technical interview or   preparing for technical rounds so what's the whole  procedure and what's the right way to do those?  In my perspective in my view even i mean i have  interviewed a few people as well and i have given   interviews as i said earlier so what i usually say  is i mean the proficiency matters in terms of all   the comfortability with coding and everything at  the end of the day you should be the interviewer   and the interview should feel like they're  comfortable with each other. when they should   be looking forward to working with that person  going forward like if they hire them they don't   really care that suppose somebody is super  good and the other one is even a little bit   lesser than that but the person is friendly  and you know talking outs ideas and everything   usually they feel better as a candidate  they feel like yeah I want to work with   this candidate than somebody who  is very good at technical and   not really good at communication or something  like that okay so at the end if you are not   doing very well or I mean if you are if you know  you can do a lot better you don't have a but if   you are building a rapport with the interviewer  that's actually a very good step. Yeah perfectly   you can always tell to them that i'm not you know  I can do better I can do a different thing there's   something i'm stuck with and probably usually it  happens right you can't expect to do everything   all the time perfectly so just treat like a normal  colleague that you want to work with tomorrow and   if that works for that always that's the like I  think that is the mindset that people look for. 

Okay so yeah you said like we have in our mind  something and we can't communicate well so the   question came what happened when you know how to  write the code or what algorithm we should use   and all that is in our head and when it comes  to communicating those technical aspects or   explaining the code to interviewer it really  doesn't go well so what's your suggestions on it   how we should handle that pressure at that time? So okay let me replace the question so you are   asking the person is like if i am the interview  and I know the question that you asked me   and i know how to solve it but at that moment  of time I am not able to articulate it.  Yeah exactly! So in those cases, you can do something   you can actually you know try to do a smaller,  example you can ask them that you know I am not   able to for some reason even though I know how  to do it I am not able to solve this particular   problem let me do a small uh simpler version of  this let me solve a simple version to show you   I'm able to do that and I'll try to refactor the  code or for some other instance you can even try   telling note I mean you can just  articulate your simple way of solving other   logic you're thinking you know about the problem  that way also the interviewer might be like uh   stopping you if you're or going off track or if  you're saying it correctly he might even tell   you. Suppose because I know I have also helped a  few community members in lincoln members sometimes   for the interview process and I know one of the  uh one of the people had an interview with uh   redux regarding questions and he up and told him  that; "I haven't written a reducer in a long while   and but I know how reducing works and everything"  and the interviewer directly just gave him the   reducer code without bothering about it it's  like it's okay it's fine you know the concept   you can always google this thing that's not the  problem so I mean you get what I'm saying right   you can be always the articulator you can just  say I can do a simple problem I can show you that   and that also gives you some confidence because  you're able to solve a small problem you know   you are doing the right thing you can try to  you repeat it and add more complexity to it   so whatever we know we should  say that okay with the freedom.  We should explain them properly right? Yes exactly!  Okay so one we have one more question and I think  it's a really important question so there are so   many certifications program going on there are  so many learning platforms there are so many   certifications online certification participating  in contests but the real question comes   do we really need all these certifications?  which platform should we trust? which contest   should we participate to get the real value  out of it? so how to get the real value   out of those participating in context or the  certification or the online learning platform   so what's your whole suggestions on it? Yes even i agree that there are like   a huge number of certifications recently like at  one point of time when i started off my career   remember certifications had held a huge value and  you can always say i did that certification i did   oracle certification all of that but now it is  so crowded that it doesn't really stand out even   if you have did a good one nobody knows whether  it really matter it really is a good one or not   and a lot of people have a lot of certification  so usual people don't even uh understand either   others don't know the value of this  certification so in my view it is always like   all the certifications teach you or fundamentals  of particular technology that you sign up for   right and if you can use that learning to you  know contribute to open source and showcase some   sort of full request some sort of feature that you  built in an open source application i think that   is a very good way to expose to get your skills  get a good exposure instead of showing the   certificate i feel open source contribution or  building lot of pet projects even pet projects   also can be a bit deceiving but if you go with  open source frameworks open source code and you   just automate and show your features that you  built that is a huge uh impressive thing in my   book okay so building a repo is more important  than certifications right yes certificate okay so over in this era of emerging technology  there are so many languages so many frameworks   to learn so which framework or language we should  choose are there any specific requirements from   industry uh like if we are in tc we are preparing  for tsa so is there any language specification   that we need to know so if you're preparing  for a service based company it usually depends   uh on the job description and if they are looking  for specific technology or frameworks you would   have to focus on them heavily but if you're  looking for a product-based company i don't think   uh technology matters that much i mean i know  my colleagues who are three plus developers and   uh they're just uh they were filling in  a role for a java developer they didn't   even know anything about java they learned all  about it after coming on the job okay so all   they were good as in problem solving they did  good bse and that they're really good at it and   and that's how they landed the role  they didn't really care about that   this person doesn't know anything about  java and they're filling a java role   they focus more on whether this  person is a good problem solver or not   okay okay okay oh that's interesting huh okay so  one of the quick questions uh what what projects   you suggest to the newbies or the people in the  students in the college or anyone who wants to   switch their career in some other domain they are  usually working so what's your project suggestions so my project uh suggestions will be a tip  if i mean in terms of print and development   perspective okay uh one of them will be to always  clone a very uh famous app it can be any app like   uh you know instagram amazon any any app that they  feel like and the more the features the better   okay because they'll be learning in and outs  about it and also to make it consistently uh   similar it should be very similar to each other  if you work on it you'll be working highly on your   css skills and all of that so that way you are  trying to chip in years of building off in the   app development into months of it so basically  you'll be learning all the best things about it   so that is one suggestion i have and similarly  there's also this lighthouse tool in chrome   development tools and when you build a front-end  development app one other suggestion will be to   try to make sure you get a perfect score  in lighthouse your app should be that good   so a lot of tricks and you'll also understand  what are the compromises for performances versus   feature like you like a good feature but if it is  affecting your performance what do you do about   it right so thinking that perspective also will be  very useful for uh you know enterprise projects so   that also gives you a good idea um got it got  it so what what are the do's and don'ts of an   interview do's and don'ts of renter yeah that  definite don't of an interviewers uh i mean if   i ask you a question and you are uh just gathering  your mind for a minute or two it is totally fine   but after five minutes or ten minutes and you just  uh like you started writing a function and then   you still stop for like 10 minutes and you're just  thinking you don't share anything i don't even   know what is happening for all i know you might  be asking someone else to solve it and not i mean you might be on the right uh way of thinking but   you because you're not sharing to me i won't know  how to help you okay and i don't know what's going   on and you're also wasting both of our times  because i might feel that you know it is not   uh it's not thinking properly or if you ask me  a simple tip i would have told you definitely   then and there and you can just proceed going  forward it might not be taking that much of time   so communication if a person is not communicating  uh throughout the interview what's going on their   head i think that is a definite uh a negative  point okay and the do's the do's uh one thing   i often say is people don't uh sell themselves  very well in terms of interviews they start out   well and they talk about the general intro and  going forward we finish the interview and then   we talk i mean usually there's a buffer time  of 10 15 minutes to talk about each other yeah   and at that time people don't usually  try to sell themselves a lot i mean they   want to know about the role and everything that  is perfect actually that is very good to ask and   understand what are the roles and requirements and  similarly they also should tell them a little bit   i mean tell the interviewer a little bit about  what are their achievements what they are proud   of apart from what they have already said to us  that way it is it makes a bit uh it makes the   profile a bit impressive something to remember  i can always say okay this guy yeah that guy did   something impressive i remember that yeah so that  that way you are standing apart from the crowd i   think you should always try to make sure if you  have something good sell it okay okay so this   is the key point to note here okay so what as you  said that we should ask the interviewer to give us   some hints yeah so what we think and what we feel  now if the interviewer is giving us the hints so   that means we are not giving the correct answers  or the correct explanation to that question so   it make us more nervous so what's your suggestions  on it yeah i mean i understand why you would think   that even even my it was in the first time i was  interviewing and first i was talking i felt the   same thing obviously because that is partly  to be blamed on our education system the way   our system works is if you are not doing it the  first time correctly you are not doing it at all   whereas in real life that nothing works perfectly  the first time you might be working on thrice you   might somebody might be working on once  and other person might be working on five   six times and doing it properly yeah very true  so this and when you're working day to day uh   even if i speak with the colleagues also we talk  about how without going to stack overflow we   can't do anything sometimes uh exactly right you  have to google and if your development if you're   doing something like programming there are  various concepts and you might have to you   might not have to invent the wheel every time  you will be someone who is doing it better and   performant way and you just can reuse it in that  times you uh like we are as a person we know that   there are better alternatives they might be better  alternatives and there might be something that you   would have just missed and if you are working in  a team you'll be your code will be reviewed by a   lot of people and they don't say you're doing it  wrong they'll just say how to do it better usually   in that sort of a collaborative environment right  i feel uh we should also make use of the interview   and make them feel that this is how i look  tomorrow if i'm getting stuck i'll ask you if you   give me a small tip also i can try and continue  from there it's not like i want you to code for me   but i should be able to uh i mean i'm obviously  stuck somewhere because i'm not able to think   of it currently if you have something in my mind  i'll just take it and i'll use it very very true   very true a small hand will really sometimes solve  the whole problem we just need a short help yeah   and after years and years of development  everyone asks for help from their colleagues   that's the whole point right that is the  whole point of collaboration and teams   yeah so you're going for interview the same team  you act like if he's your colleague you're stuck   with something you're trying with you're not  able to do it ask your colleague that's it okay   okay so any study material or website  suggestion to prepare for an interview i don't i mean for me every time if  you're work focusing on technologies   to learn technologies or frameworks just  a general documentation and their examples   and if you look up any projects on open source or  if you just google uh like if you were learning   react gears and you just want to see how people  are writing the code or how uh how much you know   self-evaluation right you can just google on  github and just see what are the famous react apps   are currently there and you can just open them  try to read the code if you're not able to read   the code obviously you're missing out something  okay okay got it got it that way it is much more   easier and better than focusing on study materials  which might not be relevant at that time because   uh software as an industry is very rapid changes  are always there in the environment and you can   like you won't know whether you are in the  up to speed or not so if you're looking at   open source is always the best practices  and maintenance everything is considered   there so that will be always be helpful yeah  in my opinion actually yeah about it got it so i think we have covered everything so any  closing line anything you want to suggest to   your listeners that's friends listening to you  sure uh i feel uh i mean this 20-20 has been uh   a very slow year for a lot of people and i have  been having lot of messages asking about how it   is going to impact their career and whether  a lot of companies have back door they call   letters and everything and they're feeling very uh  demoralized so i feel that uh that is just a small   phase like i'm pretty sure uh within this uh may  or june itself all the positions will be filled   all the hiring will resume as it is rather there  was no probit and probably better also so i feel   as if this thing you never have to worry about the  small instances that happen in between uh small   blockers sort of a thing if you just focus on  your studies and your core uh learning area right   you can usually you overcome whatever it is and  you don't have to be worried about other instances   there will be some things which will be out of  our hand but usually we will be the ones who   will be coming out on top yeah stop worrying  and keep learning yes okay so i think we have   covered everything and from this podcast i think  see your interview as a colleague and communicate   with them properly that's what warren want to say  yeah yes okay thank you so much for coming it was   really a motivational and an insightful session  i say and such a positive mindset you have an   experience you shared with your with of yours of  last seven years so thank you so much for coming   hope our listeners would loving it and thanks  so much for coming thanks appreciate all this So listeners that's all  for today see you next week   with a new industry expert a new story  to learn from stay tuned podcast Cordss.

2021-03-04

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