this is need to know real talk about the reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon from australia ross coltart from the us bryce zabel hello and welcome to need to know i'm ross coulthart in australia back from an absolutely frantic road trip around the continental usa with my sidekick and co-host bryce zabel in los angeles g'day bryce hey good day roscoe that was really uh not only fun but i thought we covered some really great territory and i'm i'm extremely excited to show that to the people in the next few weeks can i confess the one thing i'm not excited about is what you americans do to people on domestic airlines i just cannot believe how they squash people into your airlines in continental usa well now we need to make one thing very clear me i'm not responsible for american airlines any more than you're responsible for kangaroos being in the road so we're just gonna have to let that one fly or lie now as you and i both know bryce it has been a momentous absolutely momentous month both in general uap news but also in things that you and i have been digging into and i'm really excited because probably in about two weeks time i'll be bringing a major new documentary to australian television which will be released internationally which features some of your and my interviews with people that we've been doing here in the united states with you and i'm also really excited i think this program we really have to focus on the momentous proposed legislation that is part of the continuing efforts by certain key congress people and senators to try to ensure that the pentagon and the intelligence community are held to account on uaps i cannot emphasize more how important this new legislation is it's a cracker well if it if it passes and it gets through i mean this is legislation that the senate intelligence committee i think has forwarded uh for approval in in its tough new language i mean we thought last year the language that was uh put forward was pretty tough this is uh i guess it goes beyond tough to mind-blowing on some of it i mean there's talk of uh going back to 1947 in this language which you know it's just like let's face it everyone who's listening to this knows 1947 because we've talked about it so much it's ground zero for the ufo story it's when kenneth arnold saw his first sighting it's when roswell happened a couple of weeks later it's when the the national security act was passed it's when the air force became a separate branch of the military i mean it's a big time big deal and and it's not coded at all there it is in the language saying you will go back and talk about that and there's so much others i mean so many other things um just to follow up though quickly on what you were saying i i just want people to understand how we literally got in a car a few weeks ago and started driving around to interview various people who we thought would be very important in helping to lay out this story so we kind of took a a an extra week off in between our our shows uh for good reason i think because we were finding some stuff that we'll be able to share with people in longer form over the weeks to come but i just wanted to say thank you to channel 7 in australia and yourself ross because it was really a terrific experience to be part of this and and i think when people see uh your follow-up to that excellent first documentary you had that came out last year this one will be equally mind-blowing look it's great look i freely admit i'm delighted that a major tv network like the seven network which is australia's number one tv network is prepared to back an investigation into uaps it's only to be applauded and it's such a rare thing frankly in mainstream media and and you're right one of the things that really mattered for me on this trip bryce was not only getting to meet you on in person properly for the first time but the ability to actually meet people eye to eye there's nothing like breaking bread and shaking hands with people and for me it was at least yes right yeah it was a real turning point to be in washington dc talking to people um i'm quite struck and quite optimistic now much more optimistic than i was before that the congress the senate particularly they've they've got teeth they're determined that even though the pentagon and the intelligence community have been very limp sluggish to say the least in their response to the previous gillibrand rubio galago law which essentially required them to be really open about uaps the um armed services and the intelligence committees both in the senate and the house they're really going hard with these new legislative requirements that are going to push the defence and intelligence community to really lift their game it is shocking and one of the things uh that you and i have been talking about on this uh program uh in our past episodes has been what will it take to get witnesses to come forward and how will they be triggered to tell what they know uh and not be fearful of reprisals by the government or or anyone and that seems to be something that the senate language is addressing there is an attempt to to allow people to uh speak to the congress about legacy programs in the ufo field and and not fear that they will be turned on by the government itself um now if that happens i mean that is that is game-changing because uh for people that have been watching the january 6 committee hearings you see someone come in and they they lay out whatever their story is but then you need to verify the story so now suddenly a couple of other people are are being brought in if that starts to happen in the ufo field you bring someone in they testify and then others are going to say well i want to hear more about that or more about that suddenly you have snowballing witnesses and if they're being granted some form of protective immunity then then the whole area that we're talking about could go much faster than we think it is and let me tell you bryce and let me tell our listeners and our viewers those witnesses are definitely coming i am now very very sure that we are going to see key whistleblowers fairly soon talking about legacy programs well now that's interesting i i i love how you said that too uh you you needed to lower your voice and slow down on that one because i'm very excited about it but now the only question i have for you um when you put whistle blowers and legacy in the same sentence here's my question a whistleblower tends to make me think that they're somebody who's currently involved in government issues regarding uap but some of these legacy programs have come and gone but they themselves prove uh you know what what has been investigated and what's been happening for the past years are you suggesting that there are whistleblowers about some of these older programs who would also be coming forward from some of the people you've talked to what i'm very very confident about is that there are people who claim to have knowledge of what's really been going on and i won't say whether they're still serving or not serving who are prepared to come forward and the reason why they're prepared to come forward is because the legislation that creates a so-called secure system for government or ex-government employees including the military which allows them to legally report secret ufo data it's already been approved by the full house of reps in july and our good friend dean johnson who has a fantastic twitter account that covers this issue he's explained this and what's really momentous is that you know in america right now there is so much division between the two major political parties the republicans and the democrats and yet this was passed without debate and without a roll call vote as an amendment to the fiscal year national defense authorisation act so that was mike gallagher co-sponsored by ruben gallagher gallagher and it's really exciting because you've got a bipartisan effort now by the congress by the senate to basically push this issue through and the teeth that they're proposing in the new proposed laws to put into the uh the legislation they are i mean i'm so excited about it because as yes as you say it insists on a historical analysis by the gao the essentially the government watchdog there is what is it the government accountability accounting office and as i understand it that's quite a tough regulatory oversight agency it's got real power but you know the thing that uh we we need to triple underline here is in a time where america is about as divided and frankly about as evenly split as it can be politically here is an issue one of the few i can't think of very many others that i can't think of a single one that is this bipartisan um so far and if that holds and it does not get turned into a political issue but becomes this uh issue that we're bringing forward then then it could go very quickly i wanted to just uh one of our friends is george knapp who was also an investigative reporter and i just saw a quote from him the other day and i just want to read it to you because he's he's done so much work on this area he wrote it's clear that somebody has been sharing information with congress members i can tell for sure that there are people who have met with them and have told them not only that there are these legacy programs that have materials and by materials i don't just mean scraps of metal from the ground but intact craft and remains physical remains of beings these stories have been floating around for a long time i know that there are a couple of people in particular who know about this stuff down to the point of the buildings where the stuff is stashed who are willing to come forward if they are protected and now this legislation indicates they will be protected as whistleblowers that their security clearances will not be revoked and it's pretty exciting so thanks to george knapp for laying that out so clearly and it's exactly what you're hearing so that's what i i think is interesting is this is not just some wild uh wish from people who uh you know are on ufo twitter or wherever uh this isn't some wild wish where we're just saying yeah i think it's really gonna happen these are major people in washington dc who are saying that not only are they angry about being having information withheld but they're going to do something about it which is crazy now the other things bryce that's very exciting is that whatever happens in this legislation there is now officially a stake through the heart of aoi nsg the ridiculous acronym that was given by the pentagon to the um uh uap task force replacement and it's now called arrow or arrow and the proposal in the new legislation is that it will be known as the uap jpo the unidentified aerospace undersea that's new by the way phenomena joint program office because the fact that they're flagging undersea is a completely new development and i can tell you like i know that comes out of the private briefings that have been given to congressmen and senators already you know it's interesting because uh first of all a lot of people most people still favor calling them ufos uh but then over time people have suggested we call them uap for unidentified aerial phenomena and now with this legislation it appears that there's yet another rebranding to be called them unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena as you just pointed out but i saw people trying to get away with saying that's still uap because aerospace dash under c is really just an a i don't buy it i think we're going to come to know this stuff as uaup undersea i mean uh unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena or it might be the uap joint project office it might and by the way uh i just wanted because you and i have had so much fun making fun of uh aoi msg or amesog as uh andre carson famously said in that may 17th hearing i just want to remind people okay everyone has heard about blue book that went back and from 52 to 69 and then of course when the new york times started reporting on this we learned about ossap atip and then most recently became the uap task force which for me is still the one that i think is calling it what it is it was the uap task force uh the senate originally tried to call it asro the department of defense said we don't like that so much they came up with this crazy aoi msg and now we have a-a-r-o which i think is the one that may stick and if it does i don't mind that because at least you can pronounce it you can call it arrow you can say this is the aero task force now bryce the thing that i think deserves emphasis is that this proposed new legislation that is still not passed by over the house or the senate it's a toughening up because there is clear dissatisfaction from the u.s political representatives interested in uaps that the pentagon and the intelligence community have not been responding with sufficient aggression and it's quite amazing i mean i've this is really important one of the things that the bill requires is that within six months of enactment the secretary of defense the director of national intelligence and the uap office director will establish a core group that will include at a minimum representatives with all necessary and appropriate security clearances from the cia the nsa the department of energy the nro national reconnaissance office the air force space force the defense intelligence agency the national geospatial intelligence agency it also basically requires them as they've previously been required and so far as i'm told haven't done fully to share the uap data with the uap office and it reiterates that the dni must produce an annual report on uap that is to be submitted to congress in both an unclassified and a classified form it's also going to tighten the screws as dean johnson points out by requiring that each head of each element of the intelligence community provide a report on the activities undertaken to support the uap joint project office which is really exciting they're actually making them by legislation accountable for whatever they do i found reading uh the the proposed language uh the thing that started it uh was a good old-fashioned scolding of the department of defense uh which i found kind of refreshing because it's one thing to say we we are expecting you to do something and then years go by and we've seen this happen on other things where you just go well whatever happened to that and it just got left left aside but clearly the authors of this legislation were saying uh not this time we're going to hold you accountable and you just named all these different um organizations that have to play in that in that ballpark which by the way i hope you were reading off the list because if you did it off the top of your head uh that was amazing and i applaud you for it but but there's going to be some talking go ahead yeah there's one more and this is probably the most important now this is in the context of this notorious admiral wilson memo which is the memo that its provenance is obviously held in doubt by some debunkers and skeptics but this is a memo that suggests that if there is a legacy program it's not being hidden inside the government it's being hidden inside private aerospace inside a private contractor somewhere and that's where this legislation has really brought in new proposed new teeth it would it would require a system where former or current government employees and former and current employees of government contractors will be under a statutory shield to essentially reveal any appropriate information that's currently protected by classification laws or non-disclosure orders this includes any event relating to unidentified aerospace or undersea phenomena and this is this is the big one any government or government contractor activity or program related to unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena i'm going to call that the admiral wilson clause yeah okay good i like coining that uh i i have to tell you i've been uh looking into this topic for uh three decades uh now and this makes me a little emotional this one because uh when i read the uh the language and i here's the thing for three decades uh i've heard about a lot of these concepts of course uh people talk about them but we kept saying you know things to ourselves it was like talking amongst yourselves and and the government was silent and official them in the media was silent and now in this language this language addresses some of the very things that we were saying in private that are now being said out loud things like you just said technology going to private aerospace firms i mean people have been saying that for years but nobody's ever put it in writing from the u.s government and talking about crashes and technology and biological uh effects and and then witnesses with immunity and whistleblowers and it's just a wonderful moment in the history of where this whole thing may be going and and i you know like i said i i'm not gonna break down and cry right now but i will if they actually uh get some teeth in this thing and i see some hearings that instead of the may 17th hearing that you and i uh literally took to the woodshed uh a couple of months ago if we actually see hearings with teeth with real witnesses saying real things in public oh my oh my and my friend there is more but we'll have to bring that up next on the next segment of need to know stay with us we're back in a moment because you need to know is that when a lot of let's say these events were occurring and there's claimed crash materials that might have been uh collected this went off to places like lockheed and all of the big aerospace companies they wanted to profit off of it and many of them basically took a lot of the information set it aside and they decided okay we're going to profit off it we're not going to tell congress what this is all about because if we do then maybe we have to share this with mcdonald douglas all right we're back uh i'm bryce abel ross coltart in australia and we were just listening to stanford professor gary nolan who is almost ubiquitous on the media these days he did a half hour interview with tucker carlson that that clip just came from nolan is just a big guy to be starting to talk as openly as he seems to be talking not only is he a stanford professor but he's uh he's written like 300 research articles he's got 40 patents i mean he's a he's a major person he's received an award from the department of defense the cia has come to talk to him i mean ross he's a major guy he's talking at length and you my friend have talked to him one on one i have and that will be part of a forthcoming documentary that will appear on australian television very soon and we'll be able to use a lot of it in our podcast as well because he's very very expensive in what he told me i was excited though by what he told tucker because he talked in a great deal of detail about a lot of things that have been very much in the dark for many years he talked in detail about how he was contacted at stanford by the cia sounds like something out of a movie you know that episode in a rival the film where the woman gets approached by the men in black who ask you to go away and talk to the aliens gary had something similar he basically had the cia show up who wanted to him to investigate the the strange ailments that have been contracted by certain military and government employees after they'd come into contact with certain unidentified craft and that's the word he used craft he was chosen by the cia's the best person to conduct such an investigation because he's got an enormous international reputation as an immunologist with his expertise on blood analysis and some of the 40 patents that gary has developed i mean the guy is so brilliant i mean i i was a privilege i spent a whole day with him at stanford very recently and he was walking me around his laboratories and showing me the uh the machinery that uh he's developed and the thing i love about him is he acknowledges fulsomely that a lot of the work that he does is funded by the us the federal government but he loves the idea of giving him back and so a lot of the things that he's developed the technology that he's developed he's worked up in collaboration with some of his staff and he's basically patented that technology and two of the companies that he's floated as a result of developing that technology are now on the nasdaq but my favorite quote from the exchange between tucker and gary nolan was tucker asked him you're around people that's scientists who study this stuff for a living the most knowledgeable people on this topic in the world what is their general sense of what this might be he did not shy away from answering that go ahead i'll give it to you he said that this is not from earth yeah this is not from earth i mean gary used the alien word basically now you just mentioned uh his statement that that this is not of this earth i i sat there and listened to this thing and i just wrote i'm not going to go through all of them but i just wrote down some things that just kind of blew my mind i mean the way he phrased things he said well these people are hundreds of technology revolutions ahead of us i just thought that was a clever way to put it then he did say that thing about not from this earth and he also went on right after that and he said whatever it is it's clearly been here for a long time i thought that was and then he said it raises questions of whose planet is this really i mean wow i mean that was shocking uh he he just went on and on welcome to tucker carlson today the crazy thing about the topic of ufos is how when you get into it how really non-crazy a lot of the people who know a lot about the topic turn out to be they're kind of the opposite of what you imagine they're not for conspiracy nuts a lot of them are just scientists so the next question is well if they've been here all along before we were even civilized well whose planet is this really um he brought up trinity uh the 1945 case as a real case uh so basically trinity aztec roswell being sort of a triad of crashes um he you know and i got to give carlson thing one thing he says he he said it in a way that i thought was interesting he talked about the edifice of lies starting to crack and i don't know about you ross but that's kind of how i feel about it look the interesting thing about it was the candor with which a very well-respected international scientist who by the way louis luzondo lit to slip the other day gary has been nominated for a nobel prize i mean this is no lightweight this is a scientist of international reputation there are people in cancer research here in australia who vouched to me about gary saying he was hugely well respected and the interesting thing is i actually asked him i said you know you're an immunologist but obviously um you don't have the broad expertise that would get into the the study of a lot of the issues behind the uap phenomenon and he acknowledged that you know he's a good scientist he said look i only deal in evidence i'm interested in data or data or how you guys say it over there and the interesting thing is he he's very humble in his own way i i deeply admire them but i got the impression the thing that really interested me was how much his own staff love him you know this is the kind of i think that's why that's probably true you've seen it up uh up close i mean he is a certainly a fascinating guy and what's interesting is he could just stay in his lane as they say and he could just do the biology and the immunology but he's obviously thought about this a great deal and he's he's willing to speak more about it i thought i thought that was interesting you talked about what an incredible uh background he has i i just have to put the one thing he said toward the end out there because i thought this is pretty astonishing coming from someone of his merit he said and this is the quote i wrote down the nature of our reality is yet to be completely understood i mean holy crap that's an interesting thing to say on national tv you know one of the things that i think is a constant theme now of comments from people like louis lozando chris mellon gary nolan hal put off eric davis a lot of those people who've who've had the either the needs experience or some insights that have come because of their associations with certain you should you should tell us what tell our audience what nids is before we are the national institute of discovery science bob bob bigelow's robert bigelow's um in privately funded investigation essentially into the paranormal and uaps but there's a consistency coming through now with the way all of these people talk the extraterrestrial hypothesis the simple notion that these are little green men from zeta reticuli who've bugged across the galaxy in a faster than light vehicle doesn't wash everyone's now talking about phenomenon that has been here for a very very long time thousands of years gary's made that very very clear in his interview with tucker and he makes it even more clear in this interview with me there is clearly some insight that is both on the planet here and it's also underwater and that's why i think the reference in the proposed new legislation before the congress to undersea phenomena is so important i mean this that connection this mystery is underwater is there evidence that there's a lot of this kind of activity under sea yes yeah i mean plenty right the sonar images show these things moving at speeds a dozen times faster than our fastest submarines with no cavitation right no you know no basically bubbles behind them because the movement would create a vacuum and would you know basically make a giant bubble and and we'd get this noise no noise just sonar images it's it and in this and in space and in the skies it's it's all over and and and even what we think we can perceive might possibly not even be the perception of it i mean i was fascinated again by the way he talks uh carlson asked him about abductions and he said well uh he didn't really want to get into that but he thought they were real but maybe they were you know an imposed reality memory i mean he's willing to talk about things in a way that you just don't hear that often that's interesting and it's interesting too because he tells this amazing story of this french family in a car driving along the road and the mother and the children have got a glass ceiling in the car and they look up and they see a gigantic craft through the the window of the um the vehicle the roof of the vehicle and they take a photograph and they're struck as they're looking that nobody else in any other cars is looking at what they're looking at and so clearly whatever it is is manipulating their perception because when they get the photographs back and jacques vallee has published this particular image instead of seeing a huge crap hovering above their vehicle what they see is a kind of a star-shaped object which is quite small just hovering above their vehicle and so gary talks about this and this is slide 9 this is this commonly referred to slide that was used in the briefing before the under secretary of the department of defense that i write about in my book and you and i have discussed on different podcasts whatever this phenomenon is the mystery of this phenomenon resides in the fact that it is capable of manipulating human consciousness and human perception maybe what the ufos are maybe what the uaps are is not what we think they are maybe whatever it is they are manipulating our perception of them listen you ha you have to accept that that is a very legitimate way to look at it and because that does it that is one of the few things that answers all the facts however we do get to the place and i don't think you and i have actually spoken in depth about this i don't think it means we have to throw the extraterrestrial part of any theory out i mean there's no law that says multiple things can't be true at once and uh i'm still even though i agree with everything you just said and what what nolan is saying part of me still says there's an e.t aspect to this thing and i would be surprised how they all play yeah i wouldn't be surprised if he was but i'm struck by both in the private and the public conversations that i'm having with people on the inside and that also people are saying publicly uh people like professor nolan there is increasingly a reference to the fact that to understand this phenomenon we need to understand that whatever it is it's capable of manipulating human perception and it would also explain why going back over history and you and i have covered this in previous podcasts why going back over history people have seen different things you know back in roman days they saw flaming shields in the world of ezekiel in the bible they saw spinning flaming wheels in the 19th century in the us they saw airships flying airships ships in the sky and even throughout the 20th century what humans are saying that they've seen has changed now at the moment there's this kind of black triangle phenomenon discs elliptical discs but previously it was very much the foo fighter phenomenon during the second world war just sort of flaming orbs i i mean very true i mean you go from foo fighters to ghost rockets to flying saucers but the thing about it it all of what you just said so stipulated but even in the modern ufo age there are periods where different things are seen as you you you were animating the first period if you look at the so-called photos and descriptions from the 50s even though they do cover the gamut a lot of them are those kind of you know weird-looking things that people said well that's just a hubcap or whatever they were kind of low-tech and they weren't lit and then they they transformed into a period where we got the close-encounter kind of craft from spielberg's film and now of course as you said we're getting we're getting tic tacs and we're getting uh black triangles uh what would explain that well i guess you could say we're we're being we got a lot of company and they're all you know we don't all drive mercedes-benz some of us drive nissans so maybe whoever's visiting does that or you could say what what you just said there is a consciousness aspect to this thing that is beginning to reveal itself and frankly from my point of view if it's about consciousness and there's any kind of nefarious part to it or dangerous part to that consciousness which there obviously is then you'd have to say that would explain why no u.s president for example
ever wanted to go to the oval office and say okay folks let me let me try to explain this to you it's about consciousness but but it's more than conscious i mean no president is going to do that then or now so uh what i think is happening in congress is preparing the battlefield if you will for an increasingly uh sophisticated and high level group of people to start talking in different terms about the phenomenon and that will uh allow people to speak more openly about it in the public forum and i i agree with you by the way too bryce about the fact that the extraterrestrial phenomenon the notion of um off-planet life forms may well explain part of this phenomenon and not least because of cases like the betty and barney hill case that i know you have some high degree of expertise in and i understand you also got some news on that map i do have a little bit of news and it's not it's not what i would consider great news um uh as you know i'm i'm interested in the betty and barney hill case i've investigated it uh i have a uh kathy martin and stan friedman's book captured under option for a dramatic television series so i'm into it and i did a lot of research while i was writing the pilot for that particular project and one of the things that i found out was that it wasn't john fuller who wrote the interrupted journey who really broke the story in a big way it was an investigative reporter named john latrell who did it the year earlier and um and also um there's also been a lot of talk that somehow betty and barney were not being public with their story until the the whole thing blew up on them and and then and that it was the reporter that did this and and the truth is that's not true and there's a sign in new hampshire to mark the betty and barney hill case that says these two things it says they were not public with their story and the story was leaked by the boston uh traveler well obviously journalists don't leak stories people leak them to us so i wrote the new hampshire department that was in charge of that sign and said i think your sign has two factors in it and they agreed with me and we talked about this i think on our first our first or second podcast and they said we're going to change that sign so i just heard from a journalist who was writing an article for new hampshire magazine and uh i said you should really call these people and find out when they're changing that sign and he did and because of budget cuts and pandemic and things like that they said it's probably still five years out so i don't know uh but but it was interesting and you know i know we got to wrap this one up i just want here's a here's a way to get into our next um segment when i hear gary nolan speak um i find him and i don't mean this in a i'm not trying to make fun of him i'm just saying i wondered when i heard him is gary nolan the new lou elizondo and by that i simply mean that lou elizondo's been so ubiquitous talking about this that he's almost overexposed uh certainly in the podcast world he's overexposed and on tv he's been the one go-to guy i think it's time for some other voices to come forward and i think the gary nolan voice is an example of what we're now going to start seeing more and more and some of those people as you you know tie back to the beginning are going to be testifying and we're going to be hearing from those people i agree with you bryce and and clearly what lies behind all of this is the issue of what are the implications of disclosure what are the implications of what comes out of this imagine if out of this senate congressional inquiry a truth emerges about a non-human intelligence of advanced technology that's been on this planet for many many thousands of years that's what we're exploring next on need to know stay with us we're back in a moment because you need to know hello and welcome back to need to know now we've been exploring in this week's podcast the implications of the proposed legislation that's coming up before the congress which if enacted is momentous in its implications it suggests very strongly and this is what my sources have told me in my little foray in washington in my little road trip with bryce it suggests very strongly that there may very well be soon whistleblowers coming forward before the us congress at least in private hearing and perhaps also in public hearings to reveal a lot that we don't know about the uap issue perhaps it might have something to do with a non-human intelligence that's been on this planet for some considerable time now what are the implications of that now fortuitously serendipitously my colleague bryce zabel has written a book with richard dolan another respected podcaster and uap researcher called after disclosure and bryce what are the implications oh what happens what happens if if somebody comes up in congress and admits for the first time what a lot of people are hinting at and i know the debunkers scoff but we are now in uncharted territory we're now in territory where officials uh insiders like gary nolan are using the a word the alien word they're suggesting very very strongly that the best explanation for what we're seeing here is possibly a non-human highly advanced intelligence what is the implication from that well i prefer not the a word but the d word and by d word i'm talking disclosure it's something i've been thinking about all my career uh the first film i ever wrote was called official denial and it was on sci-fi channel and it was literally about the concept of uh the story focused around disclosure what would disclosure mean let's take a walk you're not crazy mr cordless they're here and you've been keeping this a secret you think the president should go on tv and tell us all about it i think that would be a good start and what would you have him say mr chorus that alien intelligence and technology invades our airspace at will abducts our citizenry and performs surgical procedures on them but we don't know who they are how to stop them but it flies in the face of reason mr chorus it undermines religion it undermines authority and in fact is nothing more than a prescription for blind and mindless panic i mean well what is disclosure in the context of uap disclosure is when the majority of the world or most people in the world accept that we're not alone and that some form of interaction between humans and a non-human uh is happening and you know i used to think that would be a long time in coming that's why i built the dark skies tv series around it i had a head of majestic 12 whose position was the people can't handle the truth and the guy working for him said the people have a right to know which is the essence of the disclosure and so um you know about 10 years ago rich dolan and i uh wrote a book called a.d after disclosure because i i felt like there's been about 5 000 books written about ufos all sort of trying to prove that they're real and i thought wouldn't it be interesting to write a book where instead of proving they're real you assume that they're real and you talk about how the world is going to change once we all buy into that can i just stop you for a moment let's i want to know what you think personally do you think the evidence is in are you convinced on the data i'm not asking for your belief i'm asking you for your your knowledge on the data do you think we're in a position now to be able to say with any confidence that there is a non-human intelligence on this planet well if you're talking about data that i personally have access to or um the average ufo uap researcher has access to maybe not yet at that level that's a very high threshold um but do i think that data exists of course i do that's why the senators we talked about earlier are running around like their hair is on fire because they have seen beyond data they have seen video that's hd uh that's more than a few seconds and they've seen craft and they've heard stories from good sources about not just as george knapp said not just crash wreckage but actual craft and bodies so yeah i think that that data because i think a body a body laying in a in a warehouse is data to me it's not data doesn't have to be something always that i measure off a a radar or something so yeah i think it exists anyway so i i i think that it does exist but i don't think it's available to us yet to where we can say disclosure has happened i know some people like to say well disclosures already happen not really the government has admitted that uap is real and that we probably don't make it in neither does russia or china but that's different than tossing out the word non-human intelligence um but to answer your your larger question i think that there are going to be some severe changes i always you know ross i don't know have you got have you seen uh dr strangelove in your film history okay great film george c scott plays general buck turgidson and he's talking to the president in that movie and he says he's talking about uh what's going to happen if we have a nuclear war and i think it's very analogous to what would happen after disclosure targets and the general says to the president in case of nuclear war he goes i ain't saying we're not going to get our hair must all right and and i think that ready or not here comes disclosure we're going to have to deal with it and our hair is going to be must and we're going to probably go horde toilet paper again and many other things that we've done in the past do you think there will be the panic i mean one of the big excuses that i've heard from some insiders about why this has been kept secret for so long if it's true right if there isn't non-human intelligence on this planet the big excuse is that the public can't handle the truth well immediately global mass panic yeah and that goes back to uh orson welles doing the war of the worlds broadcast in 1938 thinking that some people believed it was real and were panicking the answer to your question i think is going to be some people will panic and some people will not panic sort of like how they respond to virtually everything the question is um how much panic does it take before you get disruption so let's say that after disclosure so many people are glued to their television sets watching what what is being said about this that about 10 percent of the workforce or 20 of the workforce doesn't show up for work for a week or 10 days all right well some of that 10 or 20 are going to drive gasoline trucks and they're not going to make their deliveries and some people aren't going to get gas and then those people are going to say oh my god supply chain because the aliens and then yeah there'll be some trouble but i i think disclosure is something that you can look at very closely over a short term period and say i don't know that i'd call it panic that i would call disruption massive interest but then i think we're going to enter a period where we're going to watch society reform itself around this reality that we're not alone and by that i mean we're going to hear about the government the government's going to change medicine's going to change politics is going to change space exploration is going to change the military is going to change the law is going to change i mean you remember after 9 11 we said well everything's going to change and of course it didn't really all change after 9 11. i believe after disclosure it all really will change now the implications of this uh we know already there are admissions on the record in the congress from the pentagon we know already that there are objects some people say craft i.e intelligently controlled vehicles doing things that are way beyond known human physics and the implications of those so-called five observables are that someone or something some entity is getting energy in a way that we don't get energy that's got implications for our fossil fuel industry so that's one hit so the other the other one is um positive lift you know we're talking about anti-gravity clearly whatever this technology is if it's real something is displaying in those five observables positive lift anti-gravity a type of propulsion system far beyond known human science what's the impact of particularly the energy the free energy capability the unlimited amounts of energy that clearly must be being harnessed by these vehicles if indeed they are vehicles many people think that is the crux of the biscuit and why it's been held secret for so long because one thing we can pre pretty well be sure of whether we're talking about tic tacs or or you know any of these craft that have been seen doing any of the five observable observables is that they're not flying around on gasoline right they're not they're not filling up at the local uh shell station uh before they go out and do their maneuvers which means there's an entirely different energy source that is available to whoever is operating these craft and this is what would revolutionize things the thing is we know for a fact that there is something displaying this this capability we don't know who it is this is the mystery we don't know who it is but clearly something someone some entity is displaying this capability and precisely that's the issue that is the issue but it but but that is also why we don't have full-on full d disclosure because acknowledging that somebody is flying these craft out there is one thing but that is not disclosure of who they are right so we're still not there to the we are not alone disclosure we have we have inched up and put our toe in the water just where we're willing to say there are craft that are doing things we're not aware of and we don't know who's making them but but it's still an open uh question at least from the government spokespeople that somebody human could be making these things which i would argue still would be a radically transformative thing to find out about uh in in the near future and and it would obviously involve a lot of humans lying about things and so as you and i have said repeatedly i certainly hope it's to human technology i mean i hope that the united states has developed this in the black and that we're sitting on positive lift vehicles that are capable of anti-gravity and incredible energy resources i just don't think we are though i i just it just doesn't square with what i've been told and frankly what you've been told and and what the people that you know the most authoritative people who have been studying this and commenting on it are people who just don't believe that i you know from if you take the gary nolan's and and people who have uh are now outspoken about this i don't think any of them are really buying into yeah it's china or russia that did it because they know full well that this has been a phenomenon at least since the 40s when china and russia weren't doing it and i don't think many people think we're capable of doing that right now because if we were we would certainly be employing more aspects of that technology and our own military defense so uh i i don't buy it i think it is somebody else um i don't know that it's et but i do think it's probably a non-human intelligence big question bryce and probably the final question because we've got to keep the segment short can we handle the truth i think that is the essence it's i wrote an entire television series on that very topic i've obsessed about it my entire career i've i talked to people about it constantly i remember the first time you and i met on a zoom that was one of the issues that we were kicking around and um i i guess where i come down on it is um i hope so i hope we can handle the truth i'm an optimist i believe we probably can at the end of the day handle the truth uh i know that this is going to be a radical transformation that will be in the history books forever it will completely change our world and uh i you know i hope that we can get through that transition one of the reasons that richard dolan and i called our book a.d after disclosure the ad for us
was more than after disclosure we were trying to say look we were in a bc world the before confirmation world and we were transitioning to a after disclosure world and i i think that that that's the the issue there um we are going to we are now living in the beginning stages of that transformation and right now most people don't pay too much attention to it the people who do pay attention to it openly ask that question so i i want to end by just answering your question can we handle the truth we better i think we can i think we will i think like buck targets them we're going to get our hair messed uh up a little bit on this thing but i i really think at this point in history there's not a lot we can do to stuff this one back in the bag it's it's on way out for all the reasons that we've spoken about uh in the 17 podcast prior to this one and at the beginning of this one which is for reasons that will historians are going to have to figure out later there is a change afoot and a congress for example and and the scientists uh as another example who have been able to put this aside and either ridicule it or ignore it all these years that's changing scientists are starting to study it and our representatives are starting to demand answers and i don't think it's up to only scientists and politicians it's up to people like you and me and the rest of the media and people average people who are i guess listening at this point right now we all have a role in what future we want to build out of this i think in closing bryce i'm going to refer to a wonderful speech that your president reagan gave to the united nations where he talked about what would bring the world together and he talked candidly and i suspect it was done with a degree of informed information from the inside he talked candidly about how he thought that what would bring the world together more than anything else was the realization that we are not alone in this universe that there is indeed another intelligence out there so i'd like to leave on a sense of optimism do you agree that indeed there might be the one thing that could bring us all together is the realization that we are not alone well i'm going to i'm going to end on your optimism but i'm going to uh call back to your ronald reagan um yeah ronald reagan remember saw a ufo in 1974 and chased it with his plane that he was in um so he he knew firsthand that it was was real but i here's how i would uh put it reagan was famous in his negotiations with the soviet union for the phrase trust but verify so i i almost think that is relevant to the optimism idea we need to be optimistic we need to trust but at the same time we have to have our eyes wide open we have to study this as intensively as anything's ever been discussed or studied before and we all have to come together as quickly as we can which might mean that the ultimate disclosure of of a uap reality from a non-human intelligence may be the one thing that puts human beings on the same side of the equation and and starts to end some of this this terrible division that we've had i think at that note we come to the end of this edition of need to know but i like the fact that we're ending on optimism thanks chris we'll see you all next time aid to know is a joint production of stellar productions and powerful owl productions i'm producer richard johnson and you can learn more at need to know dot today that's need to know dot today
2022-08-09