Role of Integrated Nuclear-Renewable Energy Systems in The Hydrogen Economy

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Hello everyone, my name is Les Jacobs. I'm the Vice  President of Research and Innovation at Ontario   Tech University. I serve as the Director of the  International Atomic Energy Agency Collaborating   Center. Welcome and thank you for joining us on our  second day of our work show on integrated nuclear   renewable energy systems, hosted by Ontario  Tech University in the Greater Toronto Area.  I'll begin today by first acknowledging the  lands and peoples of the Mississaugas of   Scugog Island First Nation. We are thankful to  be welcomed on these lands in friendship. The   lands we are situated on are covered under  the Williams Treaties and the traditional   territories of the Mississaugas, a branch of the  greater Anishinaabeg Nation, including Algonquin,   Ojibwe, Odawa and Pottawatomi. These lands remain  home to a number of Indigenous nations and people.  

We acknowledge this land out of respect for the  Indigenous nations who have cared for Turtle   Island, also called North America, from before  the arrival of settler peoples until this day.   Most importantly, we remember the history of these  lands has been tainted by poor treatment and a   lack of friendship with the First Nations who call  them home. This history is something we are all   affected by as we are all treaty people in Canada.  We all have a shared history to reflect on,   and each of us is affected by this history in  different ways. Our past defines our present,   but if we move forward as friends and allies,  then it does not have to define our future.

Because everyone is tuning in with us remotely  across a variety of cities and countries, I'd like to encourage everyone to take  a moment to acknowledge the land they're   on. As a university community  we are dedicated to increase   our awareness, understanding and gratitude  for the lands we share with Indigenous people. for those of you who did not join  us yesterday on the first day of the   this workshop i'd like to bring  to your attention that last year   ontario tech university was designated as an  international atomic energy agency collaborating   center we are the first iaea collaborating center  in canada in this capacity we support the iaea   activities to advance nuclear power  technology including small modular reactors uh we strengthen the synergies between  nuclear and renewable energy sources   in integrated energy systems which is obviously  the principal focus of today's workshop   and we leverage these energy systems for  multi-purpose applications to sustain support   sustainability and meet the goals of the climate  change action plan of canada and other nations as   well as more broadly the sustainable development  goals yesterday we had some interesting talks and   discussions on nuclear energy and the synergies  with renewables in integrated energy systems   and you can expect more of the same today  we have over 700 registrants for the event   event from more than 75 countries so  the representation is very wide indeed   i will now turn it over to today's invited  talk session chair francesco gande who   is the lead of the non-electric  applications project at the iaea francesco   okay thank you les good morning  and good afternoon to everyone   my name is francesco gandes less just said i am  the lead for non-electric applications of nuclear   energy here at the iaea the international atomic  energy agency so in our project we look at helping   member states with cogeneration and effective  utilization of heat from nuclear plants including   for hydrogen production desalination district  heating other industrial applications of nuclear   heat and also water management and of course uh  we have efforts ongoing also in the area of the   assessment of the synergisms offered by integrated  energy systems utilizing both heat and electricity   so before i introduce today's speakers i have a  few housekeeping items to address so first of all   um this is an interactive section so sessions so  if you have any questions please type them at any   time in the q a panel not in the chat panel  in the q a panel and we will try to address   as many of your questions as possible during our  q a session we definitely encourage your active   participations and in game engagement however  please also keep in mind that because of the   large number of participants as less just pointed  out we will not of course be able to address   every single question uh if you are experiencing  any technical problem and uh please use the chat   panel to let us know and our technical  team will try to help you out with that   and of course as is common in every  virtual event all the participants will   be muted for the duration of this session with  exception of our speakers and for our speakers   please try to stay within the allocated 20 minutes  today as we have a full agenda so now i'm looking   forward to hearing the talks from our speakers  today which will focus of course on integrated   nuclear renewable energy systems and their  role beyond electricity generation with focus   on hydrogen and in particular nuclear hydrogen  production now let me introduce our first speaker   today which is jan castillo jan serves as the head  of the hydrogen encryption technology directorate   for the canadian nuclear laboratory c l in this  role ian leads the strategic direction capability   development and execution of the research and  development activities of the directory this   includes understanding various stakeholders needs  with the government assessing market trends and   establishing a technology portfolio to leverage  cnl's decade of hydrogen isotope experience in   canada and internationally and use the c l unique  differentiating facilities and capabilities   now jan please join us on  camera and the floor is yours good morning everybody and thank you very much  to the organizing committee for this invitation   i believe the session it is uh uniquely positioned  to achieve some of the objectives that have been   discussed so far and i would like very much to  thank you the for the organizers to give me the   opportunity to talk to you today so um the title  of my talk is the canadian nuclear laboratory   experience in integrated nuclear renewable energy  systems and as francesco indicated with a focus on   the hydrogen economy the picture that you see on  the right hand side is a nice day in the summer   for our chuck river campus the agenda for today  i would like to begin with giving you a global   landscape that's usually a good place to start  then i will go to the next level of the canadian   opportunities now with those two pieces i think  we can connect with how hydrogen and nuclear   can be put together especially um in this area  of small molar reactors and uh and then we'll   move into how hydrogen enables this a strategy  of creating the carbonized water and achieving   net zero emissions as well as what c l is doing in  this arena we move later on to a future production   processes that c l has been uh developed over the  course of the last 20 to 30 years and finally we   conclude with a broader integrated energy system  tool that c l has developed called uh hiso   so without further ado for those of you uh  especially uh international that may or may not be   a familiar with the canadian nuclear laboratories  as i mentioned we are the national research center   for nuclear in in canada we are about about we  are about 3 000 staff out of which over 500 to 600   staff are research and development a people  mostly with advanced degrees such as phd recently   we concluded a report for the canadian government  called gaps in consideration for collocating or   coupling hydrogen production with a nuclear asset  that is a good summary as a starting block as to   where canada sits in the development of hydrogen  and nuclear and cogeneration the picture on the   center as you can see this is what we're trying  to solve we all want to prevent global global   warming and would like to see more pictures  of the left and less pictures on the right   all right starting with global trends i'd like to  um draw the attention to you to these uh really   useful graphs they are taken from our report  recently uh produced by arena they are pie graphs   the one on the left is from 2020 the one on the  right is for 2050 and it shows in general the   market size when it comes to energy commodities  as you can see in 2050 it's roughly about 1.5   trillion dollars u.s and in 2018 2020 and 2050  it's expected to more or less uh remain the same   with some small growth but what i think is key  here is to show the switch of the composition   of the pie chart largely on the left hand side  you see a major change going from oil and gas   energy very much being reduced  to in the order of 15 to to to   12 percent in 2050 but the remaining of  that energy capacity is largely taken by   electrification bio energy and hydrogen so  as you can see this is a dramatic dramatic   switch in terms of infrastructure in terms  of policy and in terms of energy generation okay let's go to the next slide all right so  the next slide shows um in a very simplified   way what are the clean hydrogen policy priorities  on the y-axis you can see is the level of   maturity of the solutions and on the x-axis is the  difference between having distributed applications   based on centralized applications and what you  see is two sort of squares one that is blue and   one that is a green the green really relates to  hydrogen the blue relates to electrification so   if we if i draw your attention to the center of  the screen these are really areas in which is   suspected that electrification will really advance  the switching in uh in energy technologies and it   will affect transportation as you can see fairies  trains long-haul drugs it will affect aviation   and it will affect uh to some extent district  healing but as the centralized applications   move into well people start calling hops this  is where hydrogen starts taking a bit more of   a central role because it's very clear that  hydrogen has a very strong decarbonizing potential   if the electricity and heat are connected with a  production capacity that is connected to a demand   center and this is where we can see these hops  started deforming and where hydrogen can be   produced and used for refineries used for steel  manufacturing and if it's connected close to a   large body of water it can produce synthetic fuel  or synthetic diesel for shipping as well as for   a aviation so this is what this graph tells us  now going back to the canadian opportunities what   i this is a this is a business life but i will do  my best to try to explain and let's start at the   top left corner so the top left corner shows the  grid in canada and as as you can see the grid in   canada is very clean to start with largely because  it depends uh about 60 percent of it on hydro and   a lot of it is starting to come from renewables  and nuclear the center of this of your screen   shows the opportunity between 2020 and 2050 for  hydrogen and the expectation of the hydrogen   deployment for for canada so in 2030 roughly is  expected to go about four megatons of hydrogen   production for for canada currently we're about  three by 2050 considering all that major switch   that is um it was presented on the first slide  where the electricity and generation moves to the   to the renewables that amount of capacity  is expected to grow to about 20 megatons   conversely as you have more greener production  electrification the amount of co2 equivalent   emissions that hydrogen can truly decarbonize go  from 45 megaton reduction to almost 190 megaton   reductions which is quite large it's in the order  of 15 of the total picture the the um schematic   on the right hand side gives you a flavor that  canada is a very diverse country that is really   blessed with extraordinary natural resources  on the right on everything that is in green is   electricity produced by hydro everything that is  in in in gray is produced by natural gas which is   still could be a a a very important alternative  especially combined with carbon capture and   utilization and ontario in the center has a  combination of nuclear and anhydrous so when we   start to project how the life will look into the  future you will look at the bottom of your slide   where you superimposed the country with this  creation of hubs and how the hops evolved from   2030 to 2050 this material is courtesy of the  canadian hydrogen fuel cell association and as   you can see the hopes starting by seeds in areas  that are heavily industrialized in ontario and in   quebec and alberta british columbia in the middle  those seats start to connect with other seats   and the linkage between the hubs happen largely  through pipelines or largely to transportation   and the one on the right hand side you can see  that the linkage has increased dramatically   and you start having arrows towards export  opportunities towards europe and towards asia now it's going back to the topic of the  presentation in terms of applications   between hydrogen and and nuclear this is like  the game is busy but trying to do my best on   the left hand side what you have is renewables as  well as nuclear what they give you is low carbon   intensity electricity and heat in the form of a  steam anywhere between 250 to 750 degrees celsius   depending on the reactor design in the center  of your screen are the different technologies   that can either generate hydrogen by using  electrolyzers or thermochemical processes   hydrogen also gives you a stream of oxygen which  is important to keep in mind and at the bottom   of your slide you have seen gas production so  if you are able to combine this source of clean   electricity and heat with a source of carbon  such as carbon dioxide capture from emissions   from let's say cement plants uh or a source of  biomass that canada is really blessed then you   can consider a secondary stream that is extremely  helpful called syngas which is a combination of   hydrogen and co when you have now clean hydrogen  oxygen syngas you have the opportunity to go   to a secondary set of processes such as heavier  bulge alcohol production fissure drops and others   that give you hydrogen derivatives such as  ammonia methanol synthetic fuel and other products   so this is important to keep in mind because  often it means that hydrogen is the only   substance that is being produced that's not true  there are many hydrogen derivatives out there now   switching the conversation a little bit more and  connecting with with the nuclear and being more   specific these graph shows two schematics one  on the left and one on the right the one on the   left shows a what we call collocation which  means connecting a hydrogen production plant   with a nuclear power plant that is already  existing and the schematic doesn't have everything   but overall it gives you a sense that if you  take a a view at the big square the hydrogen   plant is on the right hand side the nuclear  plant is on the left-hand side and they are   connected through electricity and heat through  switch jars but they live on the same island   the picture on the right is what we call  coupling where the hydrogen plant is entirely um   disconnected from the nuclear  station but it could be   10 kilometers away a fence away 20 kilometers away  for this all sort of as a separate infrastructure   and the intention here is that to uh do not um to  simplify the perhaps the safety and licensing of   these of these facilities by um having a black  boxes and as you can think of a black spot for   nuclear and a black spot for hydrogen connected  to with piping but it allows you to perhaps have   electricity and heat generated uh 20 30 60  kilometers away from where the demand for   hydrogen and hydrogen derivatives might be might  be found so these are the examples for existing   nuclear power plants now if we look at potential  examples with uh some of the small molar reactors   then the situation is slightly different uh  first of all the small vulnerable reactors   have uh the advantage that can be designed from  the very beginning with the thinking of hydrogen   and hydrogen derivative products in mind you  can consider having two or three reactors for   electricity production and let's say a four  reactor which is providing heat as an example   you can connect in slightly different functions  one could be a sort of peak following some of they   could be base following um but that gives you lots  of flexibility and adaptability based on their uh   different sizes and designs and the picture on  the right hand side gives you a preliminary idea   of how they could be uh presented this comes from  an iea report where the hydrogen production is on   the left-hand side and the um the smrs are on  the right hand side in uh in an arrangement   now what has canadian nuclear laboratories  done and how do we plan to support the hydrogen   strategy for for the country so what we what we  looked at it is that we see essentially sort of   four big buckets of of or four areas of work  um and they are arranging columns so one is   really helping large scale production of hydrogen  and clean fuels as well as uh finding ways to   utilize a co2 with either thermochemical cycles  high temperature electrolysis or a combination   of co electrolysis when you have hydrogen  and co2 being electrolyzed at the same time   in a high temperature electrolyzers another  major stream that we see is in the area   of hydrogen safety solutions um in general the  canadian nuclear industry has been particularly   successful in dealing with potential hydrogen  accidents in in nuclear stations by first of all   modeling what a potential accident looked  like and defining the the boundaries having a   very specialized uh tools for that modeling and  more importantly develop products and services   that allow you to prevent that um a getting to a  point of hydrogen explosion but that knowledge of   combustion dynamics generation dispersion  accumulation of hydrogen in an environment   we believe to be particularly helpful and useful  for the industry especially as the codes and the   standards are being developed into the future the  third pillar it comes down to hydrogen storage   there is no question that there is a need for uh  having large storage for for hydrogen as a vector   um they it goes anywhere between underground  salt caverns to let's say uh quote-unquote   hydrogen batteries uh and this this could be in  the form of liquid organics or methane alloys   and finally the the last one on the right  hand side it is very important at this stage   of the game to do what we call techno-economic  assessments which means you look at a particular   industry let's say the maritime industry and see  what is currently available what are the vessels   what are the engines what are their inputs and  outputs in terms of a power consumption fuel   consumption direction of travel and then you  superimpose that with a solutions in a modular   fashion so let's say if you were to change the  diesel engines to methanol engines you were to   change the diesel engines to nuclear propulsion  or you were to change it into a combination of a   hydrogen a propulsion with a storage and what  would be the impact of that from the point of   view of the technology from the point of view  of emission reductions from the point of view   of cost analysis and how you integrate all that  into a grid that is what we call a techno-economic   assessment and we develop a few tools for that  going into the future and looking over the horizon   what do we see as sort of interesting  hydrogen production processes for the future   especially in the area of thermochemical processes  so as you all know i'm sure you are very familiar   with hydrogen produced from electrolyzers and  you have three options really you have alkaline   electrolyzer spam electrolyzers and solid state  electrolyzers when you combine and you park   those options and then you consider okay you have  other alternatives yes you have other alternatives   and some of these alternatives what they're  trying to do is take advantage of heat   to reduce the potential and reduce the cost of  electrolyzing hydrogen and there are options such   as sulfur iodine process on the left hand side  top corner copper chloride process that has been   worked between cnl and otu the bottom left as i  say high temperature esteem electrolysis and also   a hybrid sulfur process on the on the bottom right  all of them share the same commonalities that what   you're trying to do is reduce the opex of the  process by taking advantage of the of the heat moving towards the back end of the talk and  uh trying to keep in the good timing here   uh just want to uh share with you some of  the other tools that i think are important   when we think about the hybrid energy system  optimization this is what we call a hiso model   so the hiso model has different modules and  as you can see it's divided as a little radial   radial uh picture where you have nuclear  hydrogen solar uh different forms of um   energy energy supply this model also have  a greenhouse gas emissions life cycle   carbon taxes um as well as ramp up rates and  it does on grid of grid a analysis and includes   carbon capture and storage and what is key here  is is the hourly time step you can model this   sort of very complex systems on an hourly basis  that allows you to give a little more granularity   than on a monthly or a weekly basis where a lot  of the transients are lost so without further   ado i'd like to spend a little bit of time on  this slide this is this is super busy but let   me see what i can do um let's start on the on the  y-axis on the left-hand side we have two two um   uh two scales but i want to draw your  attention to co2 emissions in kiloton   on the on the y-axis and on the x-axis we have  different models of producing electricity whether   it's d cell this around solar this nanowind diesel  and smrs etc so to read this graph you have to   look at the co2 emission reductions in kilo dome  by looking at the gray behind behind the graph and   as to be expected when you have diesel generated  electricity that amount of co2 emissions is high   conversely as you remove the amount of diesel use  that number of emission it reduces dramatically   okay still staying on the graph on the left hand  side there is a levelized cost in dollars per   megawatt electrical and thermal so what what this  means is what is the cost of electricity and what   is the cost of heat in a levelized fashion in the  most optimal way for a particular uh situation   where is diesel and as you can see that level  less cost of electricity could be as high as   433 uh dollars per megawatt hour which translates  into like 50 50 a little bit less than 50 cents   and that's a a good deal for some of the some  of the communities up in the north obviously   is not a very good deal for some of the areas in  the in the populated uh cities but as you can see   uh it gives you a flavor of as you  change the different generations   uh the levelized cost of electricity and the  lost cost of thermal changes with the with the   different the different situations but what  is important here is to see how for example   when you have renewables such as wind and solar  you still need to have a large amount of diesel   generation to uh take care of all those really um  high surges of of demand now this is exactly why   uh hydrogen has a huge potential because you  can almost imagine replacing the purple by a   hydrogen storage battery which will definitely uh  reduce the emissions but it will still maintain   a competitive levelized cost of electricity and  heat as you go to the right hand side on the on   the slide you go to the center you see when  you start putting the small mobile reactors   you have a really good um a value when it comes  down to base load but you still need to find ways   to to deal with these surges now your alternative  is to have a larger reactor or have a larger   uh or a lot following system but the problem there  is now you're playing a lot of topics for that   and then obviously what we want to be is on the  far right where we have no fossil fuels and you   have a combination of nuclear winds all are all  integrated in a in a hub um going to the to the   final slide and to keep in in time i just wanted  to draw some of the open literature where this   hiso model has been applied and i will i will  give you that i will leave it at that to uh   to help with the with the time thank you very  much for your attention and uh thanks francesco   all right uh thank you jan and  i appreciate you staying on time   um thank you for the informative presentations  so our second speaker today is yuchiro yuaza who   is a colleague here um at the iaea he is a  nuclear economic analyst in the planning and   economic studies section is called pes and your  children responsible for the analysis of hydrogen   production using electricity from existing  nuclear power plants and also for conducting   research on the cost of nuclear power plants  including construction operation maintenance   decommissioning and nuclear fuel cycle please  uchiro turn on your camera and the floor is yours thank you for the introduction hello everyone  my name is eutro yuasa i'm working in iaea sorry today i would like to talk about the current  situation of hydrogen production project   with existing nuclear power plants focusing  on the economic perspective i have divided my   presentation into five parts first some background  about hydrogen production from nuclear power   secondly the method of hydrogen production thirdly  the scope and objective of our activity then the   key findings from the utilities demonstration  project and finally a summary key findings are   further divided into several parts and i will  talk about this later in this presentation i'd like to start by talking about nuclear  hydrology as an energy carrier we believe   there are two main reasons for  using nuclear power to produce   hydrogen one is to reduce greenhouse  gas emissions to prevent global warming   electrification and the carbonization of the  power sectors are essential to reduce ghg emission   but they are not enough factors that  are difficult to electrify such as steel   and long distance transport can be recognized  using hydrology hydrogen produce a production   from nuclear power is not only green but also  it is expected to be competitive because it can   produce large amount of hydrogen in a stable  and efficient way using electricity and heat another reason is another reason is that existing nuclear  power plants currently face the challenge of   operating with fluctuating renewable energy  systems and hydrogen could be one solution   hydrogen production by utilizing surplus  electricity is expected to be used as a   backup power source in addition hydrogen per  produced for external fare could be a very   variable alternative in living streams thus  hydrogen is an essential energy carrier for   the government types society and nuclear  power can contribute to hydrogen production next now i'd like to count to the  primary hydrogen production methods   as you already know at the top the  fossil fuel reforming is the most   common but emission of a large amount of co2  is challenged and ccs is being considered on the other hand low carbon hydrogen  production methods using nuclear power includes   electrolysis in the middle figure some  chemical water splitting at the bottom figure some chemical water splitting is expected  to efficiently produce hydrogen by utilizing   the high temperature heat from advanced  reactors but it is still in the research stage   therefore we are focusing on the  combination of nuclear power and three dispatch nuclear power and electrolysis  as a method to produce low carbon hydrogen   in the near future next please please the next thing i want to speak about the  scope and objectives of our activity as i   mentioned earlier we set our scope to the hydrogen  production using existing nuclear power plants   so hydrogen production by advanced reactor  is not the main subject of this survey and   our objectives are compared currently underway  demonstration project of nuclear hydrogen project   production by utilities to be identified  the necessary factors for its deployment   currently several existing nuclear hydrogen  projects have started in north america and europe   but little progress has been made in asia at this  time so we collecting the latest information from   nine utilities in north america and  europe as shown in the figure b and below it should be noted that these projects are  still in the early stage and many things   may change as the project  progress next right please next key findings from the utilities demonstration   projects are divided into three parts  utility strategy for climate targets   minimizing cost to maximize revenue and  demonstrate demand and market next slide please first i will introduce some motivation  of utility utilities to produce hybrid   several utilities have set their own   decaponization targets and they are using it as  motivation to move forward with their projects   for example external energy in usa aims to deliver  100 percent carbon free registration by 2015   with an aggressive interim goal to cut  carbon emissions by 80 percent before 2013. the figure bureau shows the publication status  of national hydrogen strategies and roadmaps   it indicates that many countries have issued  hydrogen strategies and roadmaps canada and uk   include producing hydrogen from existing nuclear  power plants in their national hydrogen strategies   and they are positioning nuclear power as one of  the leading methods of hydrogen production the   elaboration of ex explicit policies by governments  are major encouragement for utilities like birth   power in canada and relief in uk to move  forward with their projects next slide please secondly i'm going to talk about what the utds are  doing for minimizing cost to maximize the value   the bar chart below shows the cost breakdown  for each hydrogen production method   in china as you can see from the left to path  which are hydrogen production using electricity   the cost of electricity accounts for a very large   percentage therefore two methods are being  considered to reduce the electricity costs   one is to utilize cheap surplus electricity  this is being considered by almost all utilities   the other is to use nuclear heat to  increase the electricity efficiency of   production and reduce electricity consumption this  means the use of high temperature electrolyzer   this method is being considered  by external energy and edf slide b regarding the first method the use of surplus  electricity we must pay attention to the the   x risers capacity factor the left  figure below shows the relationship   between the capacity factor and high hydrogen cost  it indicated that the total hydrogen cost could be   higher if the capacity factor is lower by  insisting on the use of surplus electricity in securing as much surprise electricity   as possible it is not necessary to  rely solely on nuclear electricity   the high figure the light pl below shows the  daily electricity demand and supply curve   it indicates that it may be possible  to secure the electricity exercises   operating hour by combining the nighttime  surplus electricity from nuclear power   with the daytime surplus electricity  from solar power let's try please it is also important to determine the  appropriate capacity of the electricity   and hydrogen production volume in  order to reduce the hydrogen cost   the figure below shows that increasing the  electrolyzer's modular size can lead to benefit   in economies of almost all of nuclear hydrogen  projects start out as small as one megawatt   so in the future increasing the electricity size  will reduce the hydrogen cost next slide please other ways to reduce the hydrogen cost into  include government support and risk allocation   in the u.s and the uk financial support is  being provided for nuclear hydrogen projects  

canada has adopted carbon pricing which will  also help hydrogen production with nuclear power   to be competitive in the market regarding risk allocation one method is to  cooperate with other organizations cooperation   with laboratories actually the manufacturing  company and hydrogen consumption company is a way   to allocate the risk and at the same time reduce  the risk by bringing together each expertise and the other is a milestone approach  some projects are being carried out   in several places for example one  project decides not to proceed from the   feasible phase to the demonstration  phase due to economic issues next library of the last of the key findings i  will introduce the current situation   and further outlook of the hydrogen demand  and the way to develop the hydrogen market as you can see the figure below in the future  large hydrogen demands such as shipping and steel   is expected but currently demand is limited  to the defining and chemical industry sector   and it is not so large for a nuclear hydrogen  project to be successful sufficient hydrogen   demand must be found or created however since the  amount of the hydrogen production is very small   in the demonstration phase it is expected to be  used for cooling generator in their own nuclear   problems would be mixed with hydrogen in  their own gas fire problems next likely the location of electrolyzer is another  point related to hydrogen demand utilities   utilities that intend to use hydrogen hydrogen  at nuclear power plants tends to install it   near nuclear power plants while those harbors  certain demands tend to install it near end users   the location of electricity is a difficult  challenge because each location has advantage   and disadvantage in increasing production in  the future it will be necessary to consider the   optimal location taking into  account hydrogen transport costs   great costs nuclear regulation and  other factors next slide please in addition hydrogen plasters are attracting  attention as a way to stimulate hydrogen demand   a way to create demands through the hydrogen  cluster such as port cluster and steel cluster   is being considered by bringing together  hydrogen demand and supply in one place   and promoting development at the same time it is  expected to be solved the chicken and egg issue some nuclear power plants locate close  to the potential location of hydrogen   hydrogen plasma so hydrogen clusters  with nuclear power plants of the hub   such as freeport east in uk and  arctic cluster in russia are planned next straightly finally i will summarize the key point   points discovered from the survey  of this demonstration projects for hydrogen produced from nuclear power to be  deployed on a broad road scale it is important to   make use of demonstration projects and  their results to inform other projects for example it is necessary to be  examined whether the similarities such as   governments support the use of surplus electricity   and cooperation with other organizations  should be sharing among other projects it is also necessary to determine whether the  differences such as the type and the location   of electricity and the way of creating  the hydrogen demand and unique goal   and digital consideration of the demonstration  project in in question let's try please also it should be noted that as i mentioned at  the beginning these nuclear hydrogen projects   are in the early stage although it is hardly  mentioned today's presentation various challenges   remain such as scaling up the electricity  meeting nuclear regulation requirements   transporting and stretch hydrogen encouraging  further development of hydrogen demand   serving the water supply and  ensuring public access accessibility   therefore it is necessary to continue to follow  up on this project in order to explore the   factors for deploying the hydrogen business  using nuclear power next slide please   well this brings me to the end of my  presentation thank you for the attention all right and thank you you shiro uh for the very  informative presentation and for also keeping us   on time so so far we are doing pretty well so  our next speakers is richard bormann who i've   been knowing for the past uh probably 12 years  or something like that and he oversees the idaho   national laboratory clean energy platform for  integrated energy system development and richard   is also responsible for the coordination  for this effort of theory laboratories   governments university regional stakeholders  and industry and his expertise is pretty vast   includes combustion gasification synthetic fuel  process development gas cleanup and atmospheric   environmental chemistry now over to you richard  the floor is yours please turn on your camera   thank you very much francesco uh i think i  have my camera on and can you also hear me yes yes okay great thank you for that confirmation  okay it is a great pleasure to be with you today   and and of course my counterpart dr uh shannon  bragg sitting presented yesterday and mentioned   that i would go somewhat deeper into our nuclear  hydrogen program here and as the title of my   presentation or talk today is on our progress in  nuclear hydrogen production i will be presenting   the larger larger content from the department of  energy's hydrogen and fuel cell technology office   i am a laboratory relationship manager to  that office and as was mentioned yesterday   as the lead lab for nuclear energy one of  our principal roles then is to work with the   development of high temperature electrolysis  which can be matched with nuclear reactors and   achieve higher thermodynamic efficiencies  so i also have another responsibility and   that is to be a pathway lead in what is called  the light water reactor sustainability program   which reports to the program of nuclear  energy so these two programs are work jointly   towards this goal of being able to use the clean  energy produced by nuclear reactors to produce   large amounts of hydrogen and i'm going  to address that here but first let me   let's see i guess i'm looking  to advance my screens there so   that is not happening let me try  that again it says i have uh control um thank you it just happened now and so this  has been rolled out here by the us department of   energy on june 7th an announcement was made about  this hydrogen shot much like the moonshot which   was uh many decades ago we now have earthshot  which is meant to try to obviously save the planet   and and help control the climate and stabilize  that so the goal here is that within one decade   we would be able to produce one kilogram of  hydrogen at a cost of one u.s dollar so that's one   dollar per kilogram of hydrogen within one decade  this is a very ambitious goal and within this   presentation i'd like to show one possible route  to do that with our existing nuclear reactor fleet   i'll also talk about advanced reactors and  their potential role as well okay if we go to   the next slide thank you so in conjunction  with that many of you are probably aware   of a bipartisan infrastructure law that was passed  by our senate and our house of representatives so   that's our us congress and it appropriates  this 9.5 billion dollars for the development   and demonstration of clean hydrogen meant to  incent industries and utilities to begin doing   large demonstrations of hydrogen production and  utilization of that hydrogen in our energy systems   one billion dollars is allocated for continuing  and accelerating the development of electrolysis   both low temperature and high temperature we'll  get to that in a moment 500 million is to set up   a process for manufacturing and recycling those  units and then there is eight billion dollars for   at least four regional clean hydrogen hubs of  which at least one of those will be tied to a   nuclear power source so this of course aligns with  our our earth shot goal of getting to one dollar a   kilogram of hydrogen but as an intermediate step  we have the goal by the hygiene and fuel cell   technology office of getting to two dollars per  kilogram by 2026 so we're looking out here by the   end of 2026 that's five years but roughly in four  years let's talk about how that may be possible   in in this presentation today i want to first  off though call your attention to a couple of   seminal reports that were released here that  were supported by the hydrogen and fuel cell   technology office and which were released here  about a year year and a half ago you see the   the dates on these of october 2020. one report is  an effort led by argonne national laboratory here   showing the report jacket on the left this is  available for public access and it is about the   assessment on the potential future demands for  hydrogen in the united states that gives us a   projection of what the total demand could be by  our industries and different energy systems and   including the use of hydrogen for  energy storage and power production   the report on the right which was led by nrel  mark ruth and his colleagues there at the   national renewable energy laboratory gets into  the deeper level of what is going to be the cost   and helps help to enhance helps develop those cost  supply curves by which we can see what in a market   reality might be the amount we would produce based  on the demand given certain price points these two   reports then work very well to give us a a good  vision of the markets and the opportunities in   the united states and so it's from that that we  can begin to understand how these clean regional   hydrogen hubs might be put together so that let's  go to the next slide there we go so this is a   a couple of figures out of those reports  and so i just will go draw your attention   to some of these numbers even though this  is in a very fine print hope you can see   that when we talk about what's the total demand we  would refer to that as the serviceable consumption   potential you see this column on the left uh  showing the different applications from refineries   ammonia biofuels and very similar to what we've  seen uh presented in the presentations that have   just preceded this one today but for the u.s  then that total serviceable consumption could   exceed 100 million metric tons per year  that's roughly 10 times more than what   our 2015 consumption was so that's a total  serviceal serviceable amount of hygiene that   could be produced and the map on the right would  show you where those where that demand is by   uh the intensity of these blue colors so you  can see that there's a a really high potential   in the midwest and that of course borders with  ontario canada and so we'd assume those markets   are very much in common with uh canada in the  in that particular region and also around the   uh in the michigan area and the great lakes then  you can also see the demand along the gulf shores   which of course we we understand is where our our  petroleum petrochemical industry is concentrated   so on the next slide this is again more  information coming from these reports by argonne   national lab in rail and what i'm showing here  though is to draw your attention to how we see   the role for nuclear uh power in producing  some of that hydrogen so they set up and   and looked at five cases the reference case  of course is business as usual and uh where   the hydrogen markets might grow given a given a  drive towards more hydrogen so that's the on the   right you see the supply side how much hydrogen  would be produced to match those demands shown   by the left-hand bars well of course steam methane  reforming of natural gas is the the conventional   method for producing hydrogen and so it is the  least cost at the present time and including   with carbon capture sequestration it can still be  very competitive versus electrolysis technologies   however uh with the high temperature electrolysis  we see that in the second case which was up with   an advances in and plus infrastructure advances in  electrolysis and applications there's a projection   there that that would be upwards of you  can see the the box four million metric   tons of hydrogen being produced by our nuclear  reactors now just to give you a feel for that   uh a one gigawatt reactor which is this  about the average size of one nuclear reactor   a one giga watt reactor in high temperature  electrolysis mode can produce approximately 625   metric tons per day or just a little over 200 000  metric tons per year so you could do the math that   would be 4 million divided by 200 000 metric tons  would would equate to 20 reactors that could be   converted we have a we currently have about 100  just a couple of less than 100 reactors still   operating in the united states so this would  suggest 20 of them could be repurposed for   producing hydrogen but as you see in the case  where there might be a low supply of natural gas   meaning that the natural gas is not in excess  supply as it currently is if there's greater   competition and the price of that natural  gas should rise which it incidentally has   then the demand for that nuclear hydrogen could  reach as much as 14 million metric tons and so   that would be up to as you can see my two bullets  on the in the lower right hand side as many as   any anywhere from 66 to 87 depending  upon the choice of using either high   temperature electrolysis which is slightly more  efficient than low temperature electrolysis   then of course we have some other cases here  that you'll see renewable energies solar   and wind be coming into the into the picture  under these different scenarios that have been   evaluated and this is where aggressive r d and  electrolysis development and prices coming down   would incent the use of low  temperature electrolysis   paired with wind and solar we certainly  expect that we're on a trajectory to do that   so in the end i guess i would conclude that  we would we would expect to see a blend of   uh clean hydrogen being made from steam methane  reform and with carbon capture and sequestration   with nuclear reactors and with renewable energy  and thus the bill of that uh eight billion dollars   to do these hubs helps just put us put us as a  country on a trajectory for all of those energy   sources to be uh stood up and to show the the  feasibility of doing that both technically and   economically okay look there we go to this next  slide so i wanted to then focus here now on the   nuclear part of that in our progress here working  with the two program offices that i mentioned the   department of energy's nuclear energy  office and the office's energy efficiency   and renewable energy so with the hydrogen and  the fuel cell technology office their investments   in research and development including with the  billion dollars which is now in in the bill for   electrolysis development that allows us to bring  down uh help help industry i should correctly   mention bring down the cost of their manufacturing  of the electrolysis components and modules and to   to build up the factories and to proceed to high  volume manufacturing that is ultimately necessary   to bring down those costs and that was shown in  one of the previous graphs we saw this morning   so we have plotted here a couple of different  lines there's a you see a green diagonal   line and you see a blue diagonal line you  also see some cost of hydrogen production   for natural gas methane reforming and this is  with purification so that the hydrogen produced   is on a common basis of being highly pure uh  hydrogen suitable for production of ammonia   so let's put it on an equal basis here and see how  the costs compare uh and with the continuation of   investments by industry and the doe we hopefully  come down more to the blue diagonal line   which puts us on a cost reduction because  of uh advances in manufacturing durability   performance and of course uh high volume  manufacturing so let's uh take your attention   there to the blue line as it comes down diagonally  you see where it begins to cross over with these   different assumptions for the price of natural  gas the reference case is the dashed line toward   beginning at about 1.55 again that's for pure  hydrogen after steam methane reforming so we   see the blue diagonal line process that when  the price of electricity is roughly around   26 to 27 a megawatt hour okay and and so that this  is with again the high temperature electrolysis   now on the left hand side i show some  bar graphs here which is comparing   the different uh types of electrolysis and  simply the amount of energy that is used   the blue the blue shading on those bars  is for the electrical power that is used   uh whereas the low temperature electrolysis is  based all on electricity and then when we get into   high temperature electrolysis we take advantage of  a percentage of the heat which can be generated by   nuclear reactors so you can see both light water  reactors and high temperature reactors which can   provide a higher quality of heat there are some  advantages to that however what i really want to   to remark on here is that many plants  operating in the united states now   can produce electricity for under thirty dollars  a megawatt hour this is to say then that uh if   we can achieve the high volume manufacturing of  electrolysis units then we find ourselves in a   very good position to compete immediately with  making hydrogen at existing nuclear plant sites moving to the next slide we show here then a  potential roadmap or a plan which was put together   by my pathway under the light water reactor  sustainability program setting here a vision   and a goal for us to begin doing demonstrations  with the low temperature electrolysis   followed by the high temperature electrolysis  which lags of course technology readiness at   a commercial level it lags the low temperature  pan and certainly alkaline electrolysis but as   you can see here this is a vision which we've  created to help in scent getting to where full   plants or at least a large portion of nutrient  plants are converted over to hydrogen production   either dedicated to that or in working when to  produce hygiene when they during periods of when   excess electricity is available on the grid and in  conjunction with the build buildup of renewables   anyway as you see here our aim is to work towards  getting uh be mindful of getting towards uh having   anywhere from 10 to 12 reactors converted to or  or equivalent of 10 to 12 reactors converted to   hydrogen production by the end of the decade or  beginning into the the start of the next decade moving to the next slide here this now is a  reference to the projects which have already been   uh set up that are public and private investments  costs shared by the utilities that are sponsoring   these projects you've seen and heard about these  projects no doubt in prior conferences but just   to review those there is one at uh that's being  done by constellation with the formerly exxon   exelon and that's in upstate new york the  nine-mile uh point plant there is a project   being conducted at the davis-bessie nuclear power  plant near toledo ohio by energy harbor and then   there is a project that has been awarded has been  made to arizona public services you see this down   in the bottom right hand corner and they're now  working towards uh setting that contract in place   to move forward with that project we also then  have are moving forward with a project by excel   energy in and around the minnesota reactors of  either prairie island or monticello as they are   working towards choosing one of those plant sites  and studying up there their demonstration project   then we also have a project that we're conducting  at the idaho national laboratory which was cost   shared by department of energy and fuel cell  energy and this is to demonstrate a a fully   integrated commercial module that would provide a  basis for scaling up and doing uh uh scala scaling   up those modules into full commercial production  but i might also remark that we also have other   than testing other stacks from other companies  and industries and other systems uh most notably   we have a integrated system that was built by  bloom energy that is situated now at the idaho   national lab and is being currently operated in  fact we just passed this past week completed a   full uh commission and testing of that particular  uh 100 kilowatt module so we're very pleased as a   national lab and as the department of energy to be  working with the industries in the us working with   these utilities uh and now working with hopefully  industries to set up these uh proposals for hubs   that can be built and uh and then to demonstrate  hydrogen production at even larger scales   then you see what we'll learn from the experiences  of these four or five projects and so things are   are actually pulling together well and being  coordinated between the government and private   industries very effectively here in the united  states moving on here i wanted to now just uh dive   down a little deeper into some of the technical  details of how we see this as feasible feasible   even for a light water either pressurized  water or a boiling water reactor   so there has been a myth that uh high temperature  electrolysis because the electrolysis units run   up at around 800 degrees celsius that it would  never work effectively with a light water reactor   that of course produces steam in and around  300 degrees celsius or slightly above that   well the reality is that engineering allows us to  recuperate the heat from the hot hydrogen and hot   oxygen that is produced so we simply need to get a  source of heat that allows us to convert deionized   water into a a form of steam even around as low  as 150 to 200 degrees celsius we can pick up that   steam and then superheat it with the hot hydrogen  and the oxygen leaving the leaving the production   plant with very little topping heat and that  tends to be the major difference is is that the   we need somewhat more topping heat when  we tied to a pressurized water reactor   as opposed to a an advanced reactor like a  molten salt reactor high temperature gas reactor   now our intent is to be able to demonstrate  that these systems together can also supply   electricity to the grid in times of reserve  capacity requirements so our aim is to show that   the electrolyzers including the high temperature  electrolyzers can be ramped down and wrapped up in   a matter of five to ten minutes thus allowing that  all that electricity to flow back onto the grid   when it needs to be dispatched to the grid to help  balance the grid so this has been one of the aims   of our our project and this has been demonstrated  very effectively for low temperature electrolysis   and we're now beginning to show that that can also  be done with the high temperature electrolysis   units so therefore we have to work out all the  operating concepts for to be able to do that   moving to my next slide is a a slide which  is uh uh similar to one that i think shannon   dr bragg sitting showed yesterday and this is uh  indicative of work what we've been doing using   some um capacity expansion models to help  us project the cost of electricity for the   next 20 to 30 years then we develop synthetic  time histories for that cost of electricity   and this allows us to better understand how those  nuclear power plants may dispatch between hydrogen   production and electricity on the grid so we're  just showing you here some graphs that show for a   a particular 72-hour time frame how the  electricity might go between the electrolysis   unit and the grid and how the hydrogen is  that is produced can also be stored so that   when we supply hydrogen to an industrial  customer that can be at a steady   rate according to their the industry demands so  these are some of the tools we have developed   and are using now to understand the market which  was referred to in the previous presentation the   uh a couple of presentations as the technical and  economic assessments as to how this would be done   and as part of this work we understand  and realize then in this next slide that   energy storage using hydrogen on a large scale  can be competitive versus lithium batteries when   they're used at a at a commercial scale this is  a graph out of one of our studies that is also   available in a public report which shows that  once we get to a point of about 3 000 megawatt   hours that's just three hours of storage of a  gigawatt nuclear plant that the um cost benefits   of producing hydrogen which can be stored in  geological or other other storage media that   can be recovered and turned around and produced  back into electricity as we see that becomes more   economical than lithium-ion batteries so this  work is important in helping us to understand   and helping utilities to understand when it might  be feasible and most practical to use hydrogen   storage on a large scale and then this of course  incense the the need to demonstrate uh geological   storage of hydrogen and there are some projects  in the united states uh moving forward with that   to that particular option so moving ahead now  i want to now just draw some attention to the   work we're doing under the light water reactor  sustainability program so this includes us trying   to understand the operating concepts which allow  those reactor operators to be able to dispatch the   thermal and the electrical power be between the  grid and the hydrogen production plant so have   developed uh simulators for those operations  they're built upon dynamic codes that capture   the physics of the hydrogen plant the physics of  thermal energy transport to the hydrogen plant   as it's connected to the nuclear plant  you see here in the picture on the right   a test in which we brought in a few  formerly licensed nuclear reactor operators   on the screen is are the operating panels and  representation of the nuclear plant and in this   particular exercise these reactor operators are  dispatching the thermal and the electrical power   to the hydrogen plant to show they can how  they can do that and to help us understand   how to develop the human factors and to  properly arrange them on the screens and to   to optimize the manner in which  the operators are able to uh   just again dispatch the energy so we've learned  a lot from our first uh test uh we had as you   can see people observing this this test in in  progress and and a report was written on that   now i'd like to draw some attention to uh what  was uh mentioned here in an earlier slide at by   the canadian national laboratory where they  have been looking at hydrogen flames and   basicall

2022-04-30

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