MemComputing Demonstrates Brainlike Tech That Can Crack Encryption in Seconds

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hello everyone and welcome to the Future inter  review podcast where we talk with leaders in   Tech science and business about the future of  technology and its impact on society and the   global economy I'm your host Barrett Anderson the  COO of future inter review which The Economist   has called the best technology conference in the  world and I'm here today with John Bean who's the   CEO of M Computing and Fab Fabio Lorenzo traversa  who is the co-founder and CTO of M Computing both   of whom are joining us at future in revieww in  Los Angeles just a few in just a few weeks to   talk more about me Computing but John Fabio  welcome it's so great to have you here with   us you as well thank you so much thank you so  much uh so we're talking today because of a   special demo that you did using your technology  um meem Computing and how that demonstrated the   potential to break 2048 encryption Technologies in  less than a second um for those who are watching   this this podcast who don't know anything about  encryption can you explain to them why that is   important what is the so what of this of this demo  that we're about to talk about so I'll I'll jump   in quick here Fabio so are the internet uses  something called RSA 2048 to uh as encryption   for the keys so it has a public and private key  that it exchanges and the private key uh is one   that we don't know about right so it so to in  order to break encryption so you could break   into the internet or or Communications or what  have you you would have to be able to crack that   private key the way the private key is made up  of two large prime numbers and uh the the way   that you could break the key is called prime  factorization basically you you identify the   the two prime numbers now with current technology  ology it's expected to take 400 trillion years to   break this so that's why it's considered extremely  safe however uh you know there are different means   that are trying to go after and break that  Quantum Computing hopes to do it one day but   with me Computing uh a new technology new computer  architecture that was invented by Dr traversa here   at UC San Diego we demonstrated that we can uh at  scale we can actually break the say 2048 in uh um   in subse time now that's we're not at the scale  today but it's just about you know two years away   that we would we'd be able to do that with with  funding right right right so Fabio can you tell   me more a little bit more about me Computing what  is it how does it work and what is it about that   architecture that allowed you to make this kind  of breakthrough where others have not been able to   Sure uh so normal architectures for computing are  our computers right right they um their building   blocks are Gates they are called logic gates  and they work in a sequential fashion so you   give inputs and they return outputs so our uh uh  new uh Computing architecture instead is uh um is   based on a different concept of gates we call  them self-organizing Gates so those new gates   instead of being uh sequential type of object so  input output they are they have these terminals   that are input out agnostic it means that they  can actually support a superposition of signals   that carry input and output information and uh  they work like reorganizing their voltages so you   can build network of those Gates and you literally  embed problems onto them and uh and solve problems   using the the the physics of those Gates so  this reorganization of voltages is actually   the physics of the gates so their Dynamics and so  we use exactly this principle to solve problem so   instead of using an algorithm implemented on these  logic gates that we have today in computers we   take the problems and we embed on on this new uh  uh uh architecture uh that is self-organizing and   use the physics instead of the algorithm to solve  problems and so the result is higher output uh the   result is that especially for problems that are  classified as combinatorial problems which means   that you have to explore all possible combinations  to find the right one uh uh uh usually with a   computer the algorithmic approach is exactly that  so checking all possible combinations and finding   the correct one now instead if you use M Computing  and you use this physics that solves the problem   instead of the algorithm what happens is that  you don't check all combinations anymore but   the physics uh naturally goes into the right one  now this is clearly much more complex than what   I just said but more or less gives you the idea so  you skip this process of checking all combinations   Comin exactly but instead you you leverage the  physics to go exactly into the combination in that   that that you need to solve your problem or is the  solution of your problem now this is a technology   that you have personally have been working on for  quite a long time oh yeah yes yes we introduced   the uh self organizing G so we introduced this  concept of M Computing in 20134 self organizing   gates in 2015 and so yeah it's almost 10 years  that we developing this and at what point did   you realize that it might have this capability  or this level of of you know in encryption or de   encryption well we always kind of knew and the  reason is very simple uh I have to admit that   we were uh um like uh um uh initially what we we  were thinking is okay you have a quantum computer   and you use the short algorithm to solve the  factorization and it leverages this this way   of having you know the entanglement many people  talk about this entanglement entanglement is   exactly uh uh this this uh uh correlation between  the Q bits that you leverage you're leveraging   physics to perform computation so our thing was  okay let's leverage classical physics to do the   same and our first goal actually was okay if you  we leverage classical physics to can we really   factorize so since the beginning actually we were  thinking about uh uh uh these uh problems related   to cryptography but we never really worked on  this actively because once we started uh like   developing we saw that uh it actually can be  applied to many more different problems much   quicker and easier in an easier way like for  example scheduling planning all these very   hard combinatorial problems but that they are  very important for industry and so we started   applying to these these other these other aspects  was the low ending fruit if you want so how when   when you were you were you did you discover this  on purpose sounds like yes or yes it's has been a   a a a pretty long process uh uh so the goal was uh  was so we started uh with the in memory Computing   which is a a more um it's a broader concept  uh our first AR was were for example on on   what we call the dynamic Computing random access  memory which is a ram that can perform some logic   we started doing these things so it was very  basic we were not thinking about combinatorial   problems we were thinking just to start having  a computational memories so memories that could   perform some certain type of computation possibly  basic computation but still some computation from   there we started like defining uh and when I  say we because I did all this part of the work   together with Max Dent is a professor at UCSD and  we we developed this together and uh uh uh it was   the we we we started defining much more abstract  concept which is the universal M Computing machine   which is basically the the computational model  that describes a computational memory okay and   from there we discovered okay so you have now this  abstract model what are the properties because   usually mathematicians do this no you you have  you have you have several definition axioms if   you want that describe a theory a theory and from  there then you say okay I have all of this what I   can do with this and you start writing theorems  and blah blah blah and so we realized okay wow   the computational memory in its most ideal form  is actually so powerful that is equivalent to   something that is called a non-deterministic  touring machine but in practice means that it   can solve very efficiently combinatorial problems  that otherwise require exponential Resources with   a normal computer so that was all Theory at that  point complete Theory like we don't even know how   to realize this in practice it was like okay we  have some mathematical theorem that tells us this   but but but how we actually do and so from the  then we started thinking okay how we realize this   concept in practice and we came out with the with  the self-organizing gates which is a uh embodiment   of of the universal me Computing machine and so  John what at what point did you did you join mem   Computing and and come in on this process so I was  a entrepreneur and Residence at UC San Diego I've   done a few startups they asked me to join them  and evaluate their IP and to look for something to   spin out and when I was there I met with Dr Fabio  traversa and Dr Max dentra and they presented the   technology to me and it was very clear to me that  the capabilities were something that you know   I didn't want to see sit on the shelf right we  needed to take this out and try to commercialize   it and uh and yeah we all agreed with that and the  the university um you know blessed us spinning it   out and we've been working at it ever since and  when you think about the potential for so as the   CEO you're I would imagine you're more focused  on the business side of things when you think   about the potential for this technology I know  you know this is a very exciting discovery that   you've made um and frankly kind of terrifying  if you're worried about your ability to encrypt   anything online or have any kind of private conver  ation or transaction um but are there other do you   see M Computing pursuing this and following  this path are do you see you know this is a   thing that maybe you've done and and you spin off  and continue on with meem in some other capacity   or how are you thinking about this from a from a  business perspective to drop back for a second me   Computing is a new computer architecture and we're  really a deep tech company everything is about   the circuit development using the mem Computing  based technology so we've actually uh patented   quite a few different chips and a long run we see  ourselves like an arm we'll license we'll do the   design we'll evaluate you know build the chips and  design the chips but then ultimately we'll license   them and other people will build them themselves  right so got it and but now stepping back there   when we went out in 2019 we've been solving these  uh these um routing scheduling type problems for   large companies BP locked Martin Chevron uh  also for Air Force Space force and NASA so   huge the you know huge comp uh uh comp complex  computational problems that they can't solve   optimally today that we can solve for them in a  minute so uh um the could you give could you give   an example of like what type of problem would you  would you would fit in that category so the types   of problems uh are the easiest one for everybody  to understand stand is think of UPS trucks FedEx   trucks Amazon trucks an individual truck has to do  about 120 deliveries a day to generate an optimal   route so they generate routes they obviously  are delivering packages they generate routes   but to generate an optimal route would take them  years and years and years of computer time that's   something that we can do in minutes and we've done  for some of these other companies so it's a uh the   the the problem is considered intractable and the  advantage is now if you think about it uh in fact   this from from UPS's own marketing if they could  save one mile per vehicle per truck per day for   a year it's $50 million right so so and what  we've shown to the companies we work for and   done projects for is we're demonstrating that  they can save tens of millions of dollars on an   annual basis because we can give them an optimal  solution versus an approximation right so but for   the for specifically for the prime factorization  from the beginning we have have intended it for   use by the US government and for control by the US  government because of what you noted is that it's   pretty frightening what it the implications  that it could mean if it got on the outside   so it's not our intention to complete it on our  own and go after a market uh necessarily we we'd   really rather uh see this in the hands of the US  government and and let them control it so this is   a I mean as you've just alluded this is this is a  a a big deal right it's a it is a big deal and the   level of funding that you would need to complete  and time that you would need to complete this   is not significant in the grand scale of things  not at all you know if you compare us to Quantum   Computing so we're actually delivering today sorry  a little bit of a commercial but we're delivering   the performance that Quantum Computing hopes to  deliver Quantum Computing hopes to break to do   prime factorization but they're at least 10 years  out and and frankly they've been 10 years out for   the last 30 years so but but the government puts  hundreds of millions of dollars into Quantum   Computing on an annual basis worldwide billions  of dollars on an annual basis go into Quantum   Computing so there's thousands of of scientists  work physicists like Fabio and and Max working on   this and they've been doing it for decades we've  been doing this for five six years commercially   and uh uh with seven people and and with very  little money and and so anyway the the the short   answer is that it would be a fraction of what they  put into Quantum today they it's a rounding error   in what they would need to invest in us to get us  to take it to the rest the rest of the way and why   is like why are you allowed to talk to me about  this right now if that's the case well it wasn't   our choice so we've we've had requested so we we  did this work with the government we actually did   it uh it under the guise of a working with an  Air Force intelligence group and we had always   been telling them and other government officials  that work with that we think that this should go   top secret and go black and they should you know  control it and uh and so we actually we had this   capability back in December of last year and and  haven't publicized it because we didn't want to   um and then ultimately a so but we were we're  um you know sharing it socializing it within   government agencies and we're talking to everybody  and anybody we can talk to and so happens that one   of the government agencies who invited us to talk  to them give them a presentation and demo made   the presentation and the demo live public it was  public so they forced our hand which in some ways   is good because now we're getting some recognition  for the things that we do greater recognition but   um it's still there's you know the issue with what  this ultimately means and how it should be handled   so you at the moment are basically seeking  government funding to kind of like retract   this information and this this just not retract  it but to to re maybe move it back into like a   little bit more of an obscure situation where  it can be completed finalized used that yeah   that would be our preferred method uh we are also  talking to large Aerospace organizations because   they may have one they have they possibly have  the funding they have have de Pockets but they   also have the relationships with the government  so they might be able to help us take it the   rest of the way and with their credibility and  their contacts so I'm curious you know this is I   think people often think of government funding as  like there's so much of it and it's very advanced   in your opinion how is it that this uh demo  has been able to to slip through the cracks   in this way from a security perspective and and  maybe I guess a better question is how like who   would you be looking to who do you think is  the natural entity to fund and Advance this   kind of work like who would you like to connect  with well ultimately I think this belongs in an   intelligence agency right so uh NSA CIA are the  obvious ones to to man it and control it and uh   figure out what they want to do with it um because  it has huge National Security implications and the   the the Strategic Benefit that the United States  would have uh over their adversaries they haven't   had since World War II that's what this delivers  but the I think the challenge is just that we're   out of the mainstream we're a small company out  of San Diego and you know it did it came from UC   San Diego it didn't come from Stanford or MIT and  we just uh we just haven't gained the awareness   and haven't gotten to the right desk yet for  somebody to recognize that this is something   they should try to pull in well we hope that uh  by bringing you to to Future inter rview in just   a few weeks um and and by introducing you to some  of the kind of folks at at that conference we can   help you make those connections um are there  things that you would want to say I mean this   is a public podcast is are there things that you  would want to say to the general public about this   technology or about thinking about encryption that  this has kind of surfaced uh just you know it it   sounds scary uh and it is scary that ultimately  it could be developed but but we aren't able to   do it today so nobody is is cracking your Amazon  account or your bank account or anything like   that um and ultimately again that's that's why  we think that this is something that should be   in the hands of the government um rather than  us we don't I'd rather I'd personally not like   to have the responsibility yeah yeah that's  a lot it's it's a big weight to have on your   shoulders right abut having all right well thank  you both very much for your time I look forward   to spending some time together in person in in  LA in just a couple of weeks and um thank you   for all of the work that you've been doing it's  it's really extremely important and I I very much   appreciate what what it is that you're trying  to do thank you and thank you for inviting us   to the conference we're we're excited absolutely  yeah thank you should be great yeah we'll be

2024-01-01

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