if it's Wednesday the primary politics of pending indictments why the former president has turned his campaign for the Republican nomination into a campaign against the Manhattan district attorney plus the Federal Reserve raises interest rates yet again while warning of the potential for economic Fallout as it battles a two-headed monster of rising inflation and recent bank failures in the Biden administration's rare public rebuke of Israel as it calls the Israeli ambassador to the state department over settlements and their expansion in the West Bank amid growing frustration with prime minister netanyahu's far-right government [Music] happy Wednesday and welcome to Meet the Press now I'm Chuck Todd reporting from Washington we're going to begin today with the biggest obstacle Donald Trump is facing right now to secure his third consecutive Republican Presidential nomination I'm not talking about his Republican Rivals potential are announced like Ron DeSantis Mike Pence Nikki Haley or Tim Scott because they've all now rallied around him at least in the moment instead from Donald Trump's vantage point right now the biggest obstacles facing his path to the nomination are criminal investigations three of them to be specific in New York City in Georgia and in the special counsel's office those probes might just effectively wind up being his versions of Iowa New Hampshire and South Carolina survive them all and the nomination is his the party has all but reacted that way as a Manhattan grand jury weighs potential charges against Mr Trump tied Dodge money payments made to adult film actress Stormy Daniels two sources tell NBC that the D.A told the grand jury to stay home today but to be on standby for a possible convening tomorrow and the special counsel's criminal investigation into Trump's mishandling of classified material and the January 6 Insurrection remember he's looking at both NBC News can confirm that a federal judge has determined that prosecutors have presented sufficient evidence to establish that Trump committed a crime through his attorneys and that one of his lawyers now has to testify before the grand jury he cannot hide behind attorney-client privilege the former president is facing a criminal investigation in Georgia as well that is a look into his effort to overturn the 2020 election in the peach state his lawyers are looking to quash a special grand jury report and try to Bar The Fulton County D.A from continuing its case it's kind of a long shot maneuver for what it's worth and despite all of that every single one of Trump's so-called Rivals inside the GOP who have spoken out are not attacking him they're defending him and instead attacking the Manhattan district attorney take a listen he's the guy that wants no jails the only thing he wants to do is weaponize the law against his political enemies president Trump is a victim of that from everything I've seen from this New York district attorney is that this would be something he'd be doing for political points the fact that the Manhattan D.A thinks that indicting President Trump is his top priority I think is just tells you everything you need to know about the radical left in this country it just feels like a politically charged prosecution here you have a prosecutor who is ignoring crimes happening every single day in his jurisdiction and he chooses to go back many many years ago to try to use something about porn star hush money payments you know that's an example of pursuing a political agenda and weaponizing the office protocol that group of Republicans challenges to Trump given those kinds of comments all of them seem to give a pass to him actually breaking the law none of them condemned him for breaking the law for putting himself in a position for a district attorney in any jurisdiction to have enough evidence to indict him for a crime remember Donald Trump's Behavior put him in the situation not one of them condemned his behavior not one and that perhaps explains why Trump's campaign has looked less like a traditional campaign and more like an operation designed to protect him from legal scrutiny his early campaign announcement let him deflect any legal action against him as campaign interference by what he and allies are calling partisan prosecutors and by preemptively proclaiming that an indictment was coming in Manhattan he got the entire Republican party apparatus to fall into a familiar pattern of defending him before they even know what the exact charges are Folks at the moment there is no Force inside the GOP that appears to have the will or ability to deny the 2024 presidential nomination to Donald Trump there's none the only thing that's going to keep them off the ballot is going to be the legal system and ironically every one of those Republican uh potential foes of his in the primary are all rooting for the legal system to work in their favor Garrett hake is following the grand jury proceedings in Manhattan Force kendallanian has some new developments on the special counsel investigation and joining us at least on this show for the first time is former presidential candidate and governor of Ohio John Kasich he's also a newly minted NBC News political analyst he knows a thing or two about running against a guy named Donald Trump in a primary but let me start with Garrett who's outside that Manhattan courthouse so Garrett let's start with the non-news of today you know we're only on I guess this watch in some ways because Donald Trump thought something was going to happen this week well that's partially true check I mean we had some reporting late last week that the grand jury was getting close to making a decision but yes it was Donald Trump over the weekend who pointed it Tuesday circled it on his calendar and then all of ours is the day that he thought he would be indicted that never made quite a lot of sense given what we know about the grand jury schedule today Wednesday their second meeting of the week when we didn't know of any Witnesses scheduled to appear did seem like it had potential to be the day but not so as you pointed out the prosecutors told the grand jury to go home today or to not come in they're on standby for tomorrow no one knows exactly why although Robert Costello the witness put forward by Donald Trump's attorneys on Monday before the grand jury has a theory his theory is Robert Costello he thinks his testimony was so compelling and so effective at undermining Michael Cohen's credibility that the grand jury had to take a break the D.A had to take a break and kind of
figure out how to proceed with their case whether that involves calling another witness or coming up with additional evidence to bolster Cohen is unknown but apparently the D.A doesn't think Cohen is the answer to this he was on standby himself on Monday to rebut Costello but wasn't used so now we're in this holding pattern here to see whether the grand jury does indeed convene tomorrow and whether it might take more evidence another witness to convince them to provide the indictment that the prosecutor seems to be pursuing here do we know how long Garrett this Grand Jury has been impaneled for is there when when is their expiration date I do not know what the expiration date is Chuck but again based on everything we know about how they've been operating we've been under the assumption there at the end of the probe I think the most important data point on that is the idea that Costello a witness brought forward by Trump's attorneys was allowed to testify at all and it's not the same in every state but in New York you know the target of a grand jury investigation has the opportunity either to testify himself himself or herself or provide another witness that tends to come near the end of these processes curious have you seen any evidence of protesters or enhanced security enhanced security yes Chuck but of protest not a peep today even the ones that were sort of scheduled and planned announced and promoted on social media the last two days fizzled pretty quickly doesn't appear there's any juice behind the idea of some kind of massive turnout in Donald Trump's defense at least not until there's something to defend him from Garrett hake on the ground for us outside the Manhattan Courthouse Garrett thank you let me move over to kendallanian he's got an update again you got to keep track of all your investigations in the Donald Trump this is one part of the special counsel's investigation he's doing both the January 6 investigation and the classified documents and this is an update of the classified documents part of this so Ken a win for the justice department and a and what does it mean going forward for this lawyer having to testify it's a big deal Chuck this goes to the obstruction of justice issue in this classified documents probe the question of whether Donald Trump obstructed Justice misled the justice department on Friday night we've learned a federal judge ruled that the justice department had established that there was evidence to believe that Donald Trump committed a crime through his attorneys and that therefore the crime fraud exemption in the attorney-client privilege could be invoked and she ordered that Trump attorney Evan Corcoran testified before the grand jury and provide documents now the Trump team appealed that ruling and in the docket that we believe corresponds to this now again this is all sealed it's all secret so we're not seeing the names on the docket but in the docket that we've been tracking it appears to show that the appeals court ruled in the Justice Department's favor pretty quick I can't say that for pretty quick indeed yeah they were on an accelerated schedule they had ask the justice department to file a response by 6 a.m today so now I'm not here saying this for sure because no one has pointed us to this docket and said this is the one but it's widely perceived to be corresponding to this case we're doing some more reporting to try to confirm that but either way this ruling by judge Pearl Howell is deeply significant because it shows that that she believed she ruled that the justice department showed that Donald Trump uh through his attorneys committed crimes now here let me tell you what I think that means this goes to the issue of of this assertion that a lawyer for Trump named Christina Bob made to the justice department back in June that they had looked for all the classified documents in Mar-A-Lago and that they had found none they turned over everything they had three months later the FBI searches the place learns that no in fact there were a hundred uh additional classified documents including some in Donald Trump's office the question always has been did Donald Trump's lawyers lie to the justice department or did Donald Trump Trump lied to his lawyers or is there a third possibility they somehow didn't know the documents were there well this appears to suggest that the justice department believes that Trump and can prove that Trump lied to his lawyers now it's one thing to establish this before a federal judge in a preponderance of the evidence standard this is not Beyond a reasonable doubt that they're going to need in a court of law but it's a significant step in in their efforts to show that not only did Donald Trump have improperly hold classified documents but that he misled the justice department and appeared to have obstructed justice so who's got more legal exposure here the two lawyers or Donald Trump and on this specific issue of lying about the return of classified documents if the lawyers are the ones that signed it on Donald Trump's behalf are they which is sort of like welcome to Michael Cohen's world right where the lawyers get prosecuted for Donald Trump's intended misconduct but this suggests that they are trying to get Evan Evan corcoran's testimony because they believe that he's going to testify that he just was asserting what he was told by his client and I should say that Evan Corcoran it's been reported that Evan Corcoran instructed Christina Bob to draft this affidavit and what what the what we believe what we are told the judge has ruled is that is that the evidence is that Donald Trump committed crimes through his attorneys and that they need the testimony of the attorneys to further establish that uh kendallanian uh with the latest which is a complicated thing sometimes it's a lot of explanation we don't have a lot of of of the sourcing that we can show you because of the way the justice system works Ken terrific reporting thank you sir thanks John so to try to understand why Donald Trump's political opponents are supporting him in this moment rather than maybe either staying silent or moving aside or maybe even helping to pile a lot is John I'm bringing in John Kasich he's a new NBC News political analyst but he's a long time uh friend and that I've known and covered a long time to this program and uh so it's good to see you welcome to the uh welcome to the NBC fan thank you Chuck you know you know I used to say if if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press every day corrects everything if the day ends in why it's Meet the Press brother so let me start with trying to explain that mashup of candidates that I played earlier where every one of them some of them are tell you know off the record will be very critical of the president when cameras on on we'll be very critical with the president are standing by him on this explain well Chuck I imagine that they all kind of gathered with their political people to say what do we do and look uh we cannot dismiss the fact that Trump received 70 million votes in the last presidential election and his people are you know they're they're in many respects they're they're really really rabid and uh you know I I saw when he went to East Palestine uh in Ohio you know he was greeted enthusiastically you you all covered his trip to Iowa you saw that there was a lot of passion for him Chuck I'm not so sure it's for him though I I think it's that he represents a voice of many Americans who think you know that they haven't been played with Fair the system's been rigged or whatever and I think he represents a voice but yet nevertheless they're there so I think these candidates what they're trying to do is uh really kind of have it both ways uh at some point be independent of trump but at this point they don't want to aggravate his fervent supporters and um I you know Chuck life's short how long Meet the Press has been on how many people have been on there who are who are no longer alive and yet at the moment they thought everything was critical the only critical thing in my opinion in frankly in life and in politics is what principles are you going to stand on so um you know I don't know why they're saying anything to be honest with you and no one should ever you know like be excited that somebody else is in deep trouble just let it play out but here they are kind of attacking this prosecutor and what bothers me about that Chuck is where does it stop does that mean now that the the Democrats can attack the Republican prosecutor in the future or attack the some member of the of the U.S Supreme Court I mean why
don't everybody just be quiet and start talking about your policies your policies of hope not your policies of division this is what I I you know you're sort of saying what I thought at least one person might say in this field which is no matter what you that you may not have wanted to vote for Alvin Bragg as the Manhattan prosecutor um it that may have but at the end of the day there are a lot of most prosecutors are elected officials in this country we've made that decision we can have a debate about whether that should be the case but we've made that decision if you decide to discredit one you're discrediting if you're saying that because they got elected therefore everything they do is through a political prism if we go down that road Governor Kasich where does it as you said where does it end and what do we turn into look I mean the Judiciary look we see what's happening in Israel right with the fact that Netanyahu is trying to figure out a way to limit the power of the Judiciary and you can see the outrage being expressed in Israel and also what you're seeing from Joe Biden with his call with Netanyahu saying you better not do this politicizing the Judiciary or shortening or shortcutting their ability to make decisions is uh I think it's a really serious problem for our country um look I I don't think anybody's happy with the way in which we picked the Supreme Court now and we kind of kind of know the results of most of these cases before they even uh you know it's funny you bring that up and and what's dangerous about you and I on television is we can go off on tangents and we can go off yeah in places that the producer producers can't go but I'm glad you brought up the Supreme Court because I'm watching this nonsense in Wisconsin where they protect where they elect their Supreme Court they basically cut out the middleman no we'll let the voters do it I never thought our system could get worse at picking Supreme Court Justices Wisconsin says hold by beer because their system's even worse yeah I like the current system we just have to figure out in which we can have a more a more effective way of selecting people who the American people are going to say they're fair-minded but we you're right you and I can go all kinds of directions but here's the thing that's that's troubling when you see this Republican Retreat that's going on in I guess it's still going on in Florida you know I used to go to those Chuck and those were like it's like going and getting a root canal because I was budget chairman trying to put something together and instead of them down there trying to deliver a message of what they believe in whether it's prescription drugs what they're going to do about the budget any of these issues went through about immigration they're all caught up in this thing about Donald Trump and bashing the prosecutor so they're stepping on their own ability to deliver a message that might make sense to the American people and instead they look like they're just fumbling around down there and it it's a it's just not a good thing that they're doing you know it seems like the Trap is there Governor which is I understand what you were saying about each candidate has to if you alienate Trump space uh you can't get the nomination but the more you rally around Trump the more you alienate the middle uh it's a I I you can't do both can you well I think you got to stand on principle Chuck I mean look you know one of the things that bothered me about running for president is how many of you guys counted me out before we even got to New Hampshire yeah with a little bit more money and a couple breaks I could have been the nominee you know at One Michigan I won Ohio if I had won Michigan one Ohio you know what happens is the media to a large degree tries to decide who's going to be the nominee and they're not always right and always something can come out of the blue that you never expect it can set somebody on fire where all of a sudden the media says well wait a minute look at that person it is a long way from the nomination for Trump the Santas or any of these other people it's a long road and it is a tough road and you've got to be you've got to be a weathered person and you've got to be in good spirits you've got to have money you've got to have a message you got to connect you got to have some magic and I'm not yet willing to say that Trump's the nominee or whoever is yeah uh but what I am willing to say is why isn't somebody standing out and saying I'm not going to comment and then I want to talk about the things I care about you know it doesn't make any sense Chuck John Kasich uh our newly minted NBC News uh political analyst good to see you like I said welcome to this side of the street and we'll stay in the boundaries the next time how's that now that's why we have you on thank you all right Chuck you got it see ya coming up facing turmoil in the banking industry and trying to fight inflation the FED just announced it's raising interest rates again did they meet the Goldilocks moment what it means and how the markets are reacting next plus as Republican leaders are mostly rallying to Trump's defense the fight between Trump and his potential 2024 top rival Ron DeSantis is starting to heat up a bit we'll explain ahead you're watching Meet the Press now [Music] welcome back for the ninth time since last March Federal Reserve has raised interest rates in an effort to fight inflation the Central Bank announced an increase of a quarter percentage point a short time ago with a statement that acknowledged uncertainty due to recent banking turmoil in a press conference following the announcement the chairman of the Federal Reserve Jerome Powell tried to reassure the public that all deposits in the banking system are quote safe markets though took a pretty sharp turn downward in the final hour of trading as the Dow fell more than 500 points following the fed's move after pretty much treading water all day Steve leesman is cnbc's senior economics reporter joins me from the FED also with me is David beckworth a former International Economist for the treasury Department he's now a senior research fellow with the mercatus center and host of the macro musings podcast Mr leesman though let me start with you um it seemed to me that Powell was trying to find a Goldilocks here trying not to Rattle the system and at the same time try to give Banks some breathing room did he do it with his rhetoric or not um I think so Chuck you're you're right he's trying to thread the needle here between he's got an inflation problem on one hand that requires him to raise rates and he has a banking problem on the other hand and that's probably going to result in less inflation down the road but how much and when he does it no so he took another stab at fighting inflation raising by a quarter and then kind of played around with the language in the statement that said you know what we have maybe a little bit less to do than we told you last time in terms of raising rates here so um the market didn't like it at the end of the day they kind of liked it the most of the time when he was talking I don't get it because he just he telegraphed that he's probably not gonna he's probably gonna stop raising rates before the end of this calendar year well well the people wanted a hard stop they wanted a definitive heart Stoppers we're going to raise by 25 basis points or a quarter of a point and then we're going to be done that's not what he said he said we might be done we might not be done and frankly he can't say because he doesn't know David beckworth what's your what do you what's your take on this and did he find The Sweet Spot it's hard to know where to go I would note though that Janet yellen's statement today that the treasury has not looked at fully ensuring all deposits may have contributed to some of the action we've seen in the markets but I do think pal has a tough job ahead I mean if you look at their forecast going forward they're projecting by the end of this year unemployment will go up to four and a half percent we're currently at three and a half it's hard to see how we get there without a recession they also have inflation dropping to 3.3 percent we're close to five and a half with pce so the FED is sending a very strong signal through his projections that we may go through some pain but it's also trying to balance itself against the prospects of creating a more severe banking crisis is an unemployment rate under five percent recessionary I think to get there it would be fairly painful it historically speaking though that's a relatively low number but we're at three and a half and to get to four and a half how do you get there without shedding lots of jobs no it's a fair point and and I guess Steve that's been a question I mean I saw a stat today there's still two job openings for every one person looking for a job I you know is it even possible to raise the unemployment rate that that much in this short period of time well it's been a real surprise this whole post-covet period has been an amazing surprise in terms of how strong the job market has been the idea that we've been able to bring down the unemployment rate to 3.4 percent now it's at 3.6 um and the Really the the ins the inability of fed policy to affect unemployment and that I think Chuck is because we're still in this post-covet adjustment period there's still Leisure and Hospitality they're still you know stadiums and rock concerts and and restaurants that are out there looking for workers because they're just not available so it's it may be the Goldilocks scenario which you talked about at the top of this segment is this we get inflation down and we have a modest but not really big increase in the unemployment rate Powell said you know it's going to be a little bit tougher now with this banking problem we have but it didn't rule it out entirely David what do you expect what this pal Neato see in the next month to decide whether to keep raising rates or not I think the obvious answer would be inflation continuing to Trend down we were we've been coming down since a little of last year but um since then we've had we've gone sideways and I think it's important for the FED to see progress on that front um also we need to see the economy you know remain fairly stable but at a minimum you'd want to see lower inflation trending down so do would you be expecting another quarter point or do you think he skips a month to see how that works in April I think he's keeping it open it's on the table I also found it interesting today that he noted that the tighter credit conditions effectively serve as a rate hike he noted that you know they didn't go to 50 basis points like they had talked only 125 but he noted in his his speeches and the presser afterwards that credit tight credit conditions is effectively doing some of the heavy lifting for them and if that continues that may be enough I had it's funny uh I'm glad you brought that up David Steve leesman late last week I had a former member of the FED uh a a former Governor there a member of the FED board who said that's how he would have communicated this he didn't want to see any increase and he would have said look we would have increased but we what we're trying to do tighten the tighten the money um Titan lending is going to happen anyway yeah I mean uh uh Powell definitely took a risk here you look I mean uh small Regional Banks uh they are responsible for a good part of lending into the economy uh when they tighten their credit standards what does that mean it means they give you a little more scrutiny about like how much of those assets worth at your collateral they're going to charge you more for the loan they're going to create more conditions in the loans and so think about that small business dream you may have had all of a sudden you don't get over the bar that's needed to get that loan you don't form that business you don't hire that people that are going to work there or maybe you don't get that loan to expand because the bank's going to be a little tighter so there's a risk here that he just made things more expensive made things in fact a little tougher for the banks for which the situation is already tough so there's a risk that he did too much here today and we just have to wait and see what happens with the banking system Chuck and David very quickly on the on the on the international front given what happened with credit Swiss any International contagion we should be worried about I don't think so the FED has facilities to deal with them we actually saw last week they announced their uh reopening the hours or extending the hours of their dollar swap lines the fed's been through this in 2008 2020. I think
they're prepared to handle any International contagion all right Steve leesman and David beckworth appreciate having you both giving us some economic expertise on what is normally a very political hour so thank you both up next Donald Trump's grip on the GOP what it means for the potential prosecution of the former president panelists next you're watching Meet the president [Music] welcome back as we mentioned former president Trump's biggest obstacles to the GOP nomination may not be any primaries or caucuses but the three criminal investigations he faces because despite his penship for Scandal and controversial Republican voters still broadly hold a favorable view of the former president New Monmouth poll shows 71 percent still have a favorable opinion of trump the numbers are down from maybe their Peak but they're not collapsing and it may all also help explain why his opponents have been loathed to attack him those are the same voters they still need to win the nomination if it's not him joining me now on set NBC News Washington correspondent is Michelle Cinder former Michigan Democratic congressman and distinguished senior fellow at the center for American progress Andy Levin and president and CEO of the Republican Main Street partnership Sarah Chamberlain yamiche I feel like uh I've said the one thing about Donald Trump is we like like The Apprentice we're always in reruns and in some ways I feel like we're in reruns here we just different year and you're like the cast may have changed kind of but it's sort of the same thing he's getting everybody to get fired up about his personal legal problems and when you as soon as you said so that what's the thing that that we see with Donald Trump I was thinking of the word consistent because what you see is someone who is consistently making himself the victim and consistently holding this party and forcing them to defend him I think it's really interesting when you see even someone like Rhonda santis who is wanting to repeat these salacious allegations at length but also still wants to say well this could still be politically motivated you have Mike Pence doing that you have Tim Scott doing that these are not people who want to spend their time um defending former president Trump but you also have the former president doing something else which I think is really interesting and that is making this sound about only himself but also saying I'm standing in the way of between you and your political enemies they're not just coming for me they're coming for you Republican voter that to me is interesting because he's already sort of Shifting this into a political argument for the people that he wants to back on you know Sarah it's interesting and Santa's got bullied into defending him he sure did let's not forget that I mean the Trump campaign wanted all of us to know I heard from them I I'd see every little thing where's Rhonda Sanchez he hasn't said a word and so he's like all right I'll defend you I'm going to do what you said repeat the allegations snicker snicker but you're like yeah you defended him and he pulled you into doing it he did he bullies everybody into doing it it's really fascinating to watch I mean it's I don't feel like it's a party's held hostage by him I mean is that a fair way to describe a little bit I mean our members of public Community Partnership we are the majority makers so we support him but we also want to move on and start talking about policy and and solve some of the problems facing this country like the bank crisis I mean there's a lot of problems China and we're focused on on Donald Trump and he's fine but we need to focus on what the American people want us to yeah and it it almost feels as if the Republicans both want the legal system to take care of their drunk problem but they're not going to give the legal system this space to breathe to take care of their Trump problems right you gotta look out for tearing down District Attorneys and tearing down uh officers of the law I mean we should just let the law follow the law Donald Trump and no and anybody else is not above the law these are allegations we're following this grand jury every second you know as if it's this kind of job that's not the way the legal system's supposed to work let's see if this district attorney has a case not only about the hush money but that you know it was it implicated election law and if that's the case that's very serious business but have we shifted off of that with your breaking news today is that why New York did not move forward but see that's isn't this the problem Sarah and I say this and I I don't know I'm not trying to pick on it's the fact that because of what he's introduced the idea that well if I'm being prosecuted it must be political political and then it enters that well they must be coordinating oh Merrick Garland must be picking up the phone with Albert Bragg and the fact is if any of that were true that would be insane right yeah but okay if if we have like I said I understand where the where where the logic goes because he's introduced it into the system but my God if it actually worked that way wouldn't that be a problem it would be a problem but it would also it's also a reasonable I mean are we really going to prosecute a former president for Stormy Daniels I mean when we impeached a sitting president for sex but but Clinton became more popular after that well you're making it and that's going to be an issue here so but the breaking news today is that really an issue I mean do these lawyers I mean did he make them live for him that's going to be a bigger problem than Stormy Daniels people I don't disagree people know about Stormy Daniels they still they still support him well the interesting thing to me about all of this is you even have Democrats who are looking at this Democrats that I've been talking to and saying is Stormy Daniels where we want to sort of have this article is it not going to be the Fulton County D.A and the fact that he was trying to steal an election and allegedly steal an election in Georgia is it going to be that he was that he had this Insurrection where people were were physically killed and the capital why are no a writer not not those the things that people are focusing on that's the question I've been hearing from Democrats that being said because you as you said these these DA's can't coordinate and say well you know because this crime isn't as big as your crime I'm gonna make I'm gonna slow walk my case a little bit so that Georgie gets done first that's not happening but it's problematic on the political front because you even have Democrats who obviously don't like Donald Trump who are saying this case could muddy the waters and makeup but here's at least one Democrat who's willing to stand up and say not only isn't the coordinate coordination happening it shouldn't happen it mustn't happen he has these cases against him for what he did wrong in New York and Georgia and Florida and they're all barreling forward this judge in the D.C circuit who until just now was the chief judge she's unimpeachable and now the I guess the appeals court has backed her up so that you know this the the you know this case about Georgia and this case about what he did wrong it's not about having sex with a Stormy Daniels it's about the hush money and the election I'm not interested in picking which case goes when I'm interested in respecting the law and saying this is America and what America is about is that no one above the law but I think this is a tough one because Edwards got off and it was a million dollars like below I mean I will say this we've learned this with Bob McDonald yes with John Edwards yes and and you know these campaign Finance I agree because they're tough we've written terrible laws let's be honest laws are not good and the American people don't care if they even understand that they don't care yeah it in that sense that's been difficult but I go back to the rush the Republican party has to basically follow Trump's lead here and the unintended consequences yada yada we've destroyed trust in all legal systems that's amazing this is the crisis that's the that to me I think you're right that is the crisis because you have every Republican now having to go on record and say well do you back this and what do you think about this politically motivated prosecution and they're falling in line uh maybe not on the Senate side I've heard from our Capitol Hill reporters that there are some Republican Senators who maybe are not running to the defense of Donald Trump but they weren't going to run to the defense of Donald Trump on a number of things but if you're a political candidate in the Republican Party um Rhonda Sanchez and the like you're sort of seen as like well this is the litmus test are you for this group of people are you on this team or not should we discredit every elected attorney general in this country Sarah absolutely not right but isn't that where we're headed dangerously close to that yeah yeah I mean what is it about Albert Bragg that's different than the other attorney you know than his peers across the country they're all elected he seems to be highly qualified he doesn't seem well I think in this case look Donald Trump's going to go after anybody that comes down whatever that's the thing I mean I think that we we know this this is this is his Mo I guess the question is it Sarah it looks like the party's fall the candidates running against them are falling into the same trap they are around the Stormy Daniels problem because for what we just talked about the Democrats have done it too and they've walked so that's why they're supporting him in this particular case we'll we'll wait and see what happens with January but they did this with Mar-A-Lago and then suddenly when we heard more of the story exactly people claim and that's my point Stormy Daniels they're gonna they're gonna support him I don't know what happens down the road you could also say that with January 6 and and the questions around the election I mean you had a number of Republicans on January 6 when I was standing on the lawn of the White House running for the hills from Donald Trump and then they fell back in line and said actually well maybe he wasn't doing exactly what he said he was doing and maybe it's okay to demand votes from from Georgia officials I mean it's not just Stormy Daniels and I think that that to me is the remarkable thing and and the and the problem I think that the Republican party has on its hands is whether or not they can they can continue to do this or they're going to continue to be forced to do this or can they turn a corner here's the thing the base may like this but the middle hates the chaos they do they do hate the chaos and if it looks like you're part of the chaos you're in trouble no matter which side of the island you're on anyway uh so true thank you guys terrific panel thank you Michelle cindor former congressman and 11 Sarah Chamberlain thank you all we'll have more discussion and I had more analysis of Trump's legal and political future plus the legacy of the Iraq War and the bush presidency uh that was right now on today's episode of the Chuck Todd cast Steve Hayes and Charlie Sykes were my guests on that one use the QR code at the bottom of your screen and you can get it so do it coming up we're going to be talking going checking in on Israel and the role the United States is trying to play in trying to get Netanyahu to back down on his judicial review we're live in Israel with the latest you're watching Meet the Press down [Music] welcome back the Biden Administration is trying to ramp up diplomatic pressure on Israel Over moves by the country's far-right government the state department did a rare thing they called in Israel's ambassador of the United States yesterday to officially protest changes to Israeli law that would allow new settlements in the West Bank this wasn't a formal diplomatic summons but it was a clear sign of Washington's growing frustration because think about what we've had over the last few weeks this meeting followed a phone call between President Biden prime minister Netanyahu on Sunday where Biden expressed his concern on Israel's plan to overhaul its Judicial System since that call now Netanyahu has softened his stance a bit on some of the changes but remain steadfast and giving politicians more control over appointing judges but that call came after direct contact from Tony blanket Lloyd Austin you name it with visits to Israel over the last few weeks Ralph Sanchez is in Jerusalem for us with the latest so Ralph how did the Netanyahu government handle this like I said not a formal diplomatic rebuke but basically One Step from it One Step from it Chuck you've interviewed Netanyahu before you know he's a canny politician he today has been trying to tread a pretty fine line between a very frustrated Biden Administration and his own far-right base so the line he took in response to this law uh passed by the or these changes to a law passed by the Israeli Parliament which allows once again for settlement building in the northern West Bank is he has said that he approves of this change in the law he's happy that his supporters did it in Parliament but at the same time he is actually not committing to building new settlements in that area that is unlikely to be enough for the Biden Administration they are very frustrated that Israel's parliament did this partly Chuck because of something that happened 20 years ago Ariel Sharon the right-wing prime minister of Israel in the early 2000s he was the one who pulled settlements out of this area in the northern West Bank and he promised the bush administrator operation that settlements would not go back and today you have the Biden Administration basically accusing Israel of going back on its word and on top of that Chuck we are heading into the Islamic holy month of Ramadan this is a joyous time for Muslims around the world including Palestinians here in Jerusalem's old city but it historically has also been a time of tension and a time of heightened violence in Israel in the occupied West Bank and as we've talked about before we are right now seeing some of the worst violence in 20 years and U.S officials are concerned that this will only exacerbate the situation chuck all right Rob Sanchez on the ground for us in Jerusalem rough as always thank you still to come Tick Tock CEO prepares to testify on the Hill tomorrow as momentum in Washington builds to ban the massively popular app I'm going to talk to a top Senator helping to lead a charge to put a ban in place with legislation that's been backed by the White House you're watching Meet the Press now [Music] welcome back Tick Tock CEO is set to testify in front of Congress tomorrow he's going to defend his company's data collection practices as lawmakers threaten to a total ban on the Chinese owned app over National Security concerns NBC News has learned that shows ichu the CEO of tick tock is plainly to argue that his company is simply too big and too economically viable in this country to ban after he took to the app yesterday to speak directly to the platform's 150 million American users the White House has pushed tick tock's parent company bite dance to divest from the app in the United States and has backed efforts by bipartisan group of lawmakers to pass legislation and we give the administration the power to ban it in the United States if it does it joined Now by one of the Democratic senators backing this bipartisan Bill Wisconsin senator Tammy Baldwin Senator Baldwin welcome back to Meet the Press it's lovely to join you thank you let me start with the defense that Tick Tock CEO makes um do you think it's a good enough reason to keep Tick Tock afloat simply because it's too big to ban um look I think that users of tick tock um we'll speak in a moment about the bill that we introduced which deals with far more Technologies than just Tick Tock but I think users need to know who has access to their data their whereabouts where it's stored is this going to be shared with um uh competitors and adversaries uh in the in China and I think people uh really know need to know the risk of these Technologies and so the restrict act which we introduced recently on a bipartisan basis in the Senate sets up a framework in the Department of Commerce but tapping into other agencies to really understand the threats and risks posed not just by Tick Tock that's you know that's today's concern tomorrow it'll be a new technology next week it'll be another one and we need to be able to assess and then mitigate the risk and harm that could happen to Americans if you know especially when we don't know uh because there's not transparency about where our data is going whether people can engage in identity theft or surveillance these should be concerns shared by every American is your concern greater with tick tock on the data collection front or the fact that it might be an extraordinarily effective influence operation you know I think I I can see concerns on uh both uh sides and you know again with a future technology it might be a greater concern about surveillance versus identity theft versus malign influence um uh so I think we need to be concerned on all fronts and that individual consumers need to have information about the risks that these Technologies pose if any but that's why we need to have a framework to evaluate that yeah you know I've always I've wondered if you simply put a warning label when I went to the App Store and if I put tick tock on my phone would you be satisfied with a warning label that said the Chinese government owns a piece of this company keep that in mind when you decide to download this but this is America and we're going to let you make your decisions yeah so as you know Congress is looking at a variety of pieces of legislation one uh that's been offered that I'm not associated with with outright ban uh Tick Tock uh this really provides information but also tools to mitigate up to and including Banning a technology but we're not there yet and I think that yeah a warning label might not be sufficient but I think if there was a widespread understanding that uh certain technology was being used to spy on you there might be a great concern about installing that in your home right or uh or using it in uh day-to-day activity because the question I have is does government ownership a foreign government ownership uh enough to make it a band so for instance you go down this line the Saudi Sovereign fund is a huge investor in Twitter would that should that should that be allowed um telegram I believe the Russian Sovereign fund is a big investor in telegram right How would what's the difference yeah so I think you got to break this down uh let me start just by uh focusing on uh the Chinese government um because I represent a state that makes things and I know that we have had um our manufacturers and our workers on an unlevel playing field because the Chinese government can invest in their firms and manufacturers and Industry and uh make it possible to produce products for far less they can dump them and Drive Wisconsin businesses out of business so I look at Chinese investment in um in certain uh businesses as creating uh risks well beyond the ones that we've just been talking about um actually uh driving um uh you know driving companies out of business and putting workers out of work so I've looked at the involvement of the Chinese government as an investor in private business for a long long time and I've had various concerns over time we have allies that may invest in certain businesses that don't cause me to be concerned about Wisconsin workers losing their jobs Etc so I do think that's why the restrict Act is so sensible because it sets up a framework that you and I aren't making these snap judgments they are looking carefully first of all the transparency of where data is stored who has access to it are they potentially using our private information for identity theft or surveillance do they know our movements all these sort of things that average Americans and consumers should know when they make a decision about downloading an app purchasing a technology to keep us safe you know the thing that the the the thing that's most concerning when I watch this situation The more I've learned I've spent time with tick tock's Executives is every thing they're doing to try to make the case that they're protecting data of American users is actually more expensive than divesting and the fact that they won't divest feels like they keep like they want to go the more expensive route what would be better for their business would be divestment and the fact that they won't do it does that not concern you it doesn't I would hope when we pass the restrict act and set up this framework in the Commerce Department then we're going to be scrutinizing all of these uh decisions um and and uh and getting answers so that we're not uh in the dark when we purchase Technologies download apps and uh um subject our personal data uh to potential uh uh malign use let me ask you this because this is something The Tick Tock users say glad we're glad you're worried about the Chinese with my data but what Bill are you going to pass that that makes your Instagram doesn't abuse my data yeah it's a very fair question and frankly um one of the interests I've had over a long haul is making sure that we even the US government has a lot of our data what about hacks and uh breaches uh where that's gotten out we need to be careful to safeguard our data even when it's in U.S hands um or you know whether it's private sector or government um these are critical issues in the 21st century they sure are well I think we all want our privacy Bill of Rights we just got to figure out what's in them uh Senator David Baldwin Democrat from Wisconsin appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us thank you thank you so much all right before we go I'd like to take a moment to remember in honor a beloved long-time political journalist and friend of mine vonverbers here at NBC News died this weekend Vaughn was the top digital editor here at the NBC News Washington Bureau for more than a Dozen Years he helped guide our digital politics coverage he worked with our political unit on First Street in the Meet the Press blog and he made a few appearances on The Daily rundown back in the day Vaughn got his start in politics as a deputy press secretary for Pat Buchanan's short-lived presidential campaign in 1992. he's worked at
Politico CBS and was editor of the hotline before coming here to NBC News on a personal note Von and I weren't just colleagues we've been friends for 30 years we worked at the hotline together back in the 90s we started the same week at the hotline we go so far back that here we are on C-Span 15 years ago talking then about how far back we go together 15 16 yearly 16 years in April that we first started working again we were looking some old video you back in 2001 during your hotline days and you spent over a decade there when Chuck and I started at the hotline there wasn't even an internet we were sort of an Internet we were the internet as our friends at the today's version of the hotline wrote Vaughn's decades loan career has had a tremendous impact on how we report and analyze the news today for those of us who knew and love Vaughn it was a lot about a lot more than just his top-notch journalism chops or his Keen political Insight one was a mentor to a slew of young journalists folks that I didn't realize he was a mentor to it's been a sounding board for colleagues he was quick with a one-liner and equally quick with a kind word but most of all he was a devoted husband to his wife Lisa and a loving father to three incredible kids Victoria Cameron and Von Henry our thoughts are with them and what has been a very tough time I'll be honest this has been very hard I'll be back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now NBC News Now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson right now thanks for watching our YouTube channel follow today's top stories and breaking news by downloading the NBC News app
2023-03-30